The Lazy Genius Podcast - #194 - From Selfies to Politics: How to Share Yourself Online with Laura Tremaine

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

This is a rare episode where I talk to another human, and I only have humans on who are actual Lazy Geniuses at what they do, and you guys? Laura Tremaine is 100% a Lazy Genius, maybe even just a genius, when it comes to sharing your stuff especially online. I adore Laura and the work she puts out into the world. I hope you enjoy our conversation! Helpful Companion Links For Greensboro locals, check out Chez Genese’s new Family Dinner Subscriptions. Preorder Laura’s new book Share Your Stuff. I’ll Go First., which comes out February 2nd. You can learn more about Laura’s book here or by visiting her website here. And you can find her on Instagram @laura.tremaine. And if you’re looking for another podcast to listen to after you finish this episode, I highly recommend her show 10 Things To Tell You. This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by Shea Janess. If you are local to Greensboro, North Carolina, listen up. Shea Janess is a French-inspired downtown cafe with a mission to employ adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities and offer some of the most delicious food in town, like Top 5 in the city, according to Yelp. We have seen so many restaurants close due to the pandemic, and I'm so grateful Shea Janice is still in full swing with their family dinner subscriptions. You can choose from four levels based on how many meals you need per month.

Menus include comfort foods like meatloaf and mashed potatoes, French classics like cassoulet, and even kid-friendly meals like sloppy joes and cupcakes. You place your order for what meals you want and pick them up curbside. The Shayjinness team is lovely and will care for you so well. Go to Shaygines.com to order your next meal. That's C-H-E-Z-G-E-S-E-E-S-E-D-C-G-E-N-E-S-E-E-E-D-S, The Place of new beginnings. Hi there. You're listening to the lazy genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is episode

194 from selfies to politics, how to share yourself online. This is a rare episode where I talk to another human. I only have humans on who are actual lazy geniuses at what they do. And you guys, Laura Tremaine is 100% a lazy genius, maybe even just like a straight genius when it comes. comes to sharing your stuff. Her podcast, Ten Things to Tell You is one of my favorites, where she offers questions and tools to help us share our stuff with our people. She also wrote what will without question be one of my favorite books of 2021 called Share Your Stuff. I'll go first. It releases in about a week on February 2nd and is a magically empowering book of questions and stories to help you go deeper in your relationships. I get this kind of question all the time.

How do I make friends? How do I develop deeper friendships with the friends I already have? How do I move past small talk? I hate small talk. This is the book you're looking for. It is so well written. Like so good, you guys. Laura should write fiction. She's such a good storyteller. It has the most beautiful cover, which is always a bonus. And it will be your most surprising relationship tool this year, no doubt. You can learn about Laura at laura tremaine.com as well as share your stuffbook.com. And all the links are in the show notes. But today, Laura and I talk about sharing your stuff online and not in the usual way. You will not hear kind of the regular internet platitudes of take time away from your phone or in-person connections are always more important than the ones online. This is talk about the reality of being online and processing through how we can do it well as ourselves without chucking our phones in the ocean. We talk about the culture around selfies, the shame and judgment of that and how we can engage with each other in kinder, more confident ways. We talk about sharing controversial topics

and how we expect ourselves to speak in absolutes when so many of us are in process, but we're doing it in hiding. And we each share our house rules when it comes to managing our DMs and comments and why we post what we post if you are a person whose life on the internet is part of your business. I had a couple of major realizations during this conversation with Laura, which of course I because when we share our stuff with our people, our lives change. We learn and clarify and laugh and see and appreciate our people more than we did before the conversation happened. So this is a good one. That is for anyone who was on social media, like literally anyone. I love Laura so much. She is such a fantastic human. This is such a fantastic conversation. And I cannot wait for you to learn more for my dear friend.

Hi, Laura. Hi, Kendra. I'm so much you're here on a rare conversation episode of the Lazy Genius podcast. What a thrill. I mean, I feel so honored that you are letting me talk to you on this show. It is actually, I'm not even joking. I really am honored. It's really, really fun. I'm so excited. Well, this feels like a topic that you are very specifically suited for because I don't like to have people on the show if they are not already a lazy genius and whatever it is that we're talking about. And you are, I don't even think it's a lazy genius. I think you're just like a legit genius sharing your stuff and teaching people how to do that well.

And so this episode, we wanted to just have a conversation about boundaries around sharing, how to know what to share online, especially with the things that sort of feel like the tent poles of difficulty in sharing. the title of this episode, Selfies and Politics. How to know what to share online. So I would just, I'm so excited that we get to have this conversation. People get to hear both of our thoughts. Because I think we, you and I approach this even a little differently from each other, which is good permission for all of us to sort of know how to do it. So I was thinking as we were getting started, I was like, are there any, are there any universal sort of truths or rules about shiguring your stuff online. And I couldn't think of any. But you would probably know if there are.

Is there something that's just like true for everyone across the board when it comes to sharing online? I think it changes a little bit. Internet culture evolves and then we sort of evolve with it. Like if you remember back to the Wild West early days of social media, there was like this abundance of oversharing. People were so excited to overshare. And then there was this like huge pullback where it was like, nobody should share. It should be a privacy issue should be considered all the time. And I think we're still finding our way, even like, you know, almost two decades in with what the sort of universal blanket rules are. I mean, I do think that everyone should be kind of mindful about posting in a way that would compromise anyone's safety. So like if you live in an area with abundance crime or something

like that, you should obviously be aware if you're posting that you're out of town for a week or something like that. I mean, those are just general. Don't put your social security number as like your caption. Those like those things we sort of generally know. Well, I mean, you know what's funny about that is people get like very almost nonsensical about what they think is going to happen. Like you're not going to be robbed if you post that you went to the grocery store. Like your children are not going to be kidnapped because you post the very cute pictures of them. I'm sure they are so cute, but like nobody wants your children. That's the whole quote for this episode. No one wants your children. Oh, it's so good. Oh, man. So I guess really, because as I was thinking about it,

maybe what we're all looking for just in life is someone to tell us what to do. I mean, that's really what so many things are. It's just like, well, just someone tell me how to do this the right way. and why the internet and not just Instagram, but you and I are on there a lot. I feel like that's probably the social media filter that I will choose in terms of sharing a little bit more. But in terms of social media, we want someone to tell us what to do. And so that's what makes it hard is there's not, there are not hard and fast rules of what to do and what not to do. So this episode is a way for us to kind of offer some permission and some filters on how people can make their own decisions about how they want to share. So many people,

have different considerations and also like it matters what your friend group kind of does it matters what your general community feels as acceptable i mean there cannot be any universal rules because we're all dealing with a lot of different circumstances and like you know if our job is at risk depending on what kinds of things we post or what our family dynamics are like you don't want to put relationships in a really super weird place maybe so like we're all having all kinds of things to think about when we share stuff online. But I think that not having any blanket rules is hard for most of us because it really does like take a lot of brain energy to think about do I want to post a selfie or will I get a lot of judgment for that? Or do I want to post this

really cute picture of my kids or are people going to like think that I'm not thinking about their privacy? Like it's all of these decisions like it becomes online decision fatigue. You And so it's like hard to not have these universal truths around what we share online. But it's also good to be able to talk about it and sort of like think about how to think about it, you know, how to make those decisions. Absolutely. And the reason that I am so glad that you and I are going to talk about it is because, you know, everything in this space in the Lacey Genius space starts with naming what matters. And that's really what, where this begins for all of these decisions. And so we, you and I had talked earlier about, you know, in terms of breaking this down,

there were sort of three general categories that we were going to sort of talk about. And, and they all begin with naming what matters to you about that specific thing. So just for you guys, as we go through this, we're going to talk about like your own sharing your own personal stuff. This is like the selfies, the celebrations, the things that you're good at, your family, your kids, like it feels a little bit hard to sometimes do that, know what that looks like. The second one is things that are a little bit more controversial, I suppose. Like, it doesn't have to be just politics, but whenever we are vulnerable, really, about something, it can feel really scary that something that is closely tied to us personally might be generalized by another person or

treated cruelly by another person. It can make us shut down. So we wanted to talk about that to you. And then also at the end, there are a number of people who listen to both of us who have, like, businesses online too. You know, their life online in some way is their work, which can add its own level of complications. So those are kind of the three areas that we wanted to touch on today. But starting with the whole, like, selfie culture, are you comfortable taking and posting selfies? Like, what's your, like, scale on to 10. One, like, I hate it with my whole heart and 10,

like, bring them on. Like, what's your vibe? I'm giving myself a solid eight for selfies. I used to be a lot more self-conscious about posting selfie because there's all these, like, jokes around them, like, you know, the selfies with the duck lips and, like it felt maybe tacky or narcissistic. You know, people, I feel like behind the scenes made, made fun of other people who posted a lot of selfies. And I think that you can maybe overdo it. But what I realized when I was scrolling, and this was years ago, maybe during the blogging years when I was a mommy blogger, but I realized when I was scrolling my social media or looking at blogs, my favorite thing to see was other people's faces. Like I loved seeing my friend's

faces. I did not feel like a lot of judgment, unless they were doing like something super weird, but most of us are not. Like most of us posting just a normal selfie of our face, I like get so much joy when I see my friends or people I follow. I love seeing their face. So then I kind of started tiptoeing into taking selfies myself. And I mean, who knows if I was getting judgment behind the scenes or not, but I could see that people reacted to it.

Like we like to connect. And when you're online, that is one of the easiest ways is to show our face versus like showing the sunset. Can we sit for a second around the idea of people judging other people for posting a picture of themselves? Because we either, I feel like most people who are below, say, a seven on that one to ten scale, the reason that you're like is because you either feel like you're going to be judged for something, right? or you are a judger of people who do it and you're like, I would never do that.

Like, do we think that it's like it's like a secret way of like asking for a compliment, you know, or like, you know, it's like we just assume all of these expectations or something? I don't know. Well, I have two thoughts on this. One is, and I've been on all sides of this. So I'm just saying this plainly. when you have some sensitivity in yourself, like some insecurity in yourself, like maybe you don't love the way you look, a number of things, you are really repelled by people who are confident.

And posting a selfie, like a bold selfie, an unapologetic selfie is, you know, it's a power move. And I think that when you see people boldly showing up like that, if you are having some something inside you that, you know, is not feeling so bold in your life for whatever reason. Your relationships are hard. Your job is hard. Parenting is hard. Whatever. You're not feeling your best, most thriving self.

When you see someone else, like being that bold and confident, it ticks something in you to be like, ugh, she is just driving me nuts. And then the second thing about that is, and I've learned this through this challenge that I host every year on Instagram, One Day, H.A. which is sort of just like a day in the life challenge where everybody posts what a day looks like for them each year. Well, I really, really encourage people on that day to share selfies. Like just this is what I look like right now, this year on one day HH kind of thing. Every single year people do it, but their caption starts out with some version of,

I never post selfies, but I'm doing this challenge. Or I would normally never do this. So it starts out with both, you know, an apologetic place and like sort of a judgment place. Like, I never do this for those of you who always do this. Right. But really, it's less about the judgment and more about the apology. Like, I'm so sorry I'm filling your feed with my face. And I want to be like, why are you apologizing? Now, I don't think you should post a selfie every day if that's not your jam.

That's fine. But on this day where you're doing it, just walk forward in it, sister. You do not need this, like, huge caveat of apology and how you don't normally do this. This doesn't fit with your online values. I mean, that's what you're saying underneath that, right? is that you have some sort of thing that you would never do this, but you're breaking your own rule for that moment. And I want to be like, why?

Why can't you just be like, this is who I am today? I'm doing this fun internet thing. Yay. Right. And I will also tell you this, like, not that this is about statistics or data, because it's not. I do notice when I look at some of those that, and I know this from my own feed, those posts like,

get the most like lights and comments. And I don't think that that's why you should post a selfie and I don't think that that should be like a major consideration. But you do have to think about the people are reacting to you because they like seeing you. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a freeing thing, Laura, because I think that we have created these invisible rules for ourselves that we just don't even know until like one day, H, we're sort of put into a position of doing this thing. And if we go back to that language of what matters about your Instagram account, like what matters? Why are you posting? Like, what is the purpose in posting? That some people might be like, I have a private account and it's just family members and they just want to see my

kids or whatever. That could be true. But also, if it's grandparents who want to see your kids, you are also someone's kid. So they probably would enjoy seeing you too, you know, to sort of stop. this idea of only kids are the ones that should be in the picture. But if you think about, like, why we share at all, it's all about connection is we are sharing our own stories so that the people who are in our lives will know us. We want other people to share their stories in their lives so that we can know them. And it's just this reciprocal relationship of going back and forth. And so if we are people who are embarrassed or ashamed or whatever, for whatever reason, to not share more of who we are, whether it's like a picture, like a selfie picture,

or words that would amount to a selfie. Like, you guys, this really great thing happened. Cheers to me. Thank you for celebrating this thing with me or whatever. You know, like, whatever that equivalent is, we, like, we stop that from happening. and yet we find ourselves so lonely, especially on the internet. And it's like you can't, that's part of why is if you don't share who you are as you are without those apologies, without that shame, without judgments for other people who do it too. They're not going to want to share themselves on their feed if you're like, I never do this. Like it creates this culture of stay hidden, stay hidden, stay hidden, only share the safe stuff or

whatever safe means when really what matters about this is that we're connecting with each other. That's right. It's not about selfies per se. I mean, people are going to have all kinds of feelings about like selfies specifically, but it is about being seen, letting yourself be seen. So even if you post about your promotion at work, and it's not a selfie, it's a, you know, picture of your cubicle or however you're doing that, you are still letting yourself be seen. And that is so scary to people, even on a successful thing, like a promotion. Like they don't even want people to say good job. Like, yay, I'm happy for you. Like, sometimes

that makes you want to run and hide. Like, oh, no, people are happy for me. Like, I can't take that scrutiny. And then you feel, well, I will say about me, I know that when I, because you and I have had, you guys, the number of times that Laura has like almost yelled in my face, Kendra, let good things happen to you because something good will happen. And I'm just like, I mean, yeah. And you get so mad. Like, why are you not more excited about this? Or if you say you're excited about something, like you say something to me. And then I'm like, I know, like, there's a, caveat. There's a reason. Like, we can't be as excited as you might think because of this one thing or it was just a, it was just an accident or it just, you know, like we can always downplay.

that thing. And then that also keeps us from being sane. So it's sort of this, you use the word bold before about posting a selfie. Like I do think that there is this developing of a muscle of boldness in not just like, not bold, flashy necessarily, or bold like in your face, but a boldness that does not have that apology, that does not have that judgment that is like, I am sharing this thing for the purpose of connecting with you so that you will see me. And you will see me. that I'm giving you permission, that I want to see you, and we don't have to, like, make it a thing. This is just what it is. There is a really beautiful, like, connective confidence in that, I think, which I'm still learning,

and you are actively teaching me all the time. Well, I'm still learning it, too. It's hard to let people love on you from behind a screen. It's really, like, hard to accept that. And I think that, you know, after a certain age of adulthood, we think, well, we shouldn't need any kind of validation. Like there's a lot of messaging, I feel like, like subversive messaging that you should not need anyone else's praise or thoughts or criticisms or anything, that you should just be your own island of confidence. I don't think that's real life. And I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people, you know, congratulations.

you or just standing and saying, I'm excited for me. Will you be excited for me too? I mean, you don't say it exactly like that, but that is what community is. You know, I remember when people would get so excited, maybe they still do. I mean, I sort of still do about Facebook birthdays. I mean, who cares? Like, it's just people saying, happy birthday because Facebook prompted them to, it still feels good. I don't care what anybody says. You're still like, oh, my God, it's still kind of fun. Well, you didn't do anything to achieve your birthday, you know, besides get there. And that still feels good. Like, think how much more magnified it is when people congratulate you for something that you really did earn or that you're proud of. Like, that is community. It's not

narcissistic to like a little bit of validation or to, you know, to have people see you. There's nothing wrong with wanting that and receiving that. Yeah. That's one of the lazy genius principles in the lazy genius way is to let people in. And that's a big part of it is if we keep the door closed on what's happening in our lives, it's, you know, I don't want it to sound like, you have no excuse. Of course you're going to be lonely. But like we somehow are expecting this magical connection to happen with the door closed. And it's just not possible.

So it's not that you have to swing it wide right away and just run out and like yell to everybody to come in, but to learn, you know, to notice every day or as often as you see it, you know, like, I'm going to crack the door a little bit more. I'm going to crack the door a little bit more for this person, you know, like if it takes that slowness to do that, but I think something as tangible as, I'm going to post a selfie today and I'm not going to apologize about it. I'm just going to do it. I'm just going to do it. And I'm not going to feel bad when people say something nice about how I look or how much they like me or how it's good to see my face or I'm not going to apologize there either. You know, you extend that apology into the into your response of any comments

or anything like that too. It's like, thank you. Like that we learn to say, thank you so much so nice. And then like let it feel good and walk away. You know, I think that's such a good, that's such a good thing that you just said is that we think that it's wrong to like and even need validation from other people. And it's not. And the other side of this is, which just reminded me when you were talking, is to be generous to other people when they stand boldly on the internet, is to say, hey, thank you for writing that. Hey, you look great today.

Listen, younger people don't have any problem with this. They are like effusive. And I feel like sometimes it reads as inauthentic. But, you know, for full-blown adults, why do we withhold our generosity online? sometimes. Well, because of what we already talked about, sometimes it's like an insecurity. But like, we don't give that picture alike or we don't say, congratulations on your promotion. You must have worked so hard for that. That's amazing. Thank you for telling us. When I take a minute and I'm a little more generous, I've been doing this on purpose on my Facebook feed because it's been so contentious

there with the election and the pandemic and all these things. So I have been like purposely trying on my personal Facebook feed, which is, you know, private and people. I know in real life, to type comments about like, oh, I love that you shared this. Thank you for telling us. You look beautiful in this picture. Like trying to just put that energy out there. And, you know, way more than me posting my own selfie, I feel so good when I connect in that just very simple way, instead of just continuing to scroll, whatever, to be like,

oh, beautiful that you posted that. Yeah. That's so good. this is why you're the person who is so good to talk about this is because you practice it in your everyday life, in your business. Like this is, this is sort of the foundation of so much of your work, you know, is to encourage us to share our lives with each other. And, and you do that. Like, you model that in your own life, even in ways that we don't see because it is like, it's your private Facebook feed. Like, it's not, this is who you are. Like, this is really in the marrow of who you are. So it's

really fun for people to be able to, for me, for people to be able to hear these words. You mentioned Facebook and contention and stuff. Maybe this is a good place to transition into things that are, I'm actually regretting the word controversial because it's more just like it's stepping into vulnerable disagreements or, you know, it's like when we see things differently, it feels so, so hard. We won't talk about like a whole lot of politics you guys. I was like, it's fine, it's fine. But I think that we have obviously been in it for the last, really four years, but especially the last few months, right? And I have experienced the sort of difficulty, as has Laura, of like when we share things that are specific and controversial and are going to

definitely be different than how someone else chooses. Sharing that choice, for example, I shared a post about who I was voting for that I voted for Joe Biden in the last election. Sharing that, I was unprepared for the amount of personal personhood connections that people made with their choices. and who they are. Kind of like, if I am choosing differently than you, then I think you are a bad person. I think your humanity and your personhood is no longer worthy of my attention.

And so these sorts of things, when we feel the sharing of things that feel so tied to our identity maybe, it's even, it's like exponentially more vulnerable. Listen, it's so hard. Like posting about, belief systems, you know, politics, religion, like, those are really hard topics. And what has made it extra hard in the last few years is that the loudest voices and the most consistent voices

are so absolute. They are absolutely like, this is wrong, this is evil, this is the right thing. if you don't believe this, you're stupid. Like there's all these absolutes. When I think that the majority of people are vastly in the middle, I do not think on any of these things that are such absolutes, but that's what the posts come across as. And so if you're in the middle and you feel like, I'm not a good writer,

I don't know how to write what I think about this. Or you know, you're like, I don't want to post this because this is going to cause a whole hullabaloo. at the next holiday dinner or whatever. You know, there's a hundred reasons that we don't post these sensitive topics that are really, really valid reasons. There's something else here now.

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can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. For me, I have two thoughts about this. The easiest thought is it has become very important to me to share where I stand for just like history's sake, for just my own being able to look myself in the mirror. But I'm coming at that from like a public profile,

a person with a platform, so point of view, Most of people don't have that, so we're talking about how this plays out in their real life. I wish when my beliefs about mostly politics started to change five or six years ago, I would give anything for five or six years ago, Laura, to have written something posts or social media posts about how it was changing. Like, without the absolute, to just be like, hey, I'm wondering, I don't think I believe this anymore. Or like, hey, have we thought about this, everyone, for a second? I really deeply wish that I had not just struggled internally and quietly followed different voices, you know, and formed a complete, polished thought.

before I posted it, I would give anything to go back and do that differently, do that transformation in my life differently. Because when I do see someone do this, and it's very rare, but when I do see someone say like, hey, I think I'm changing or I'm concerned or I'm excited about this new way to think about something, I don't know, whatever. When I see people posting in process, it literally feels like a cool drink of water. to not have someone be like, this is the absolute truth. And I wish more people did this.

And I know this is almost more vulnerable. It is definitely more vulnerable to post the in-process than it is to post the absolute, depending on where you fall. But most of us are in the middle. And so a lot of us are just quiet. We're paying attention. Maybe we're reading a variety of points of view, but we're not saying it ourselves. and so then people don't have the permission to change.

People don't even know that other people are starting to change their process to, their thought process about something too. I will never forget in the 2016 election and in the 2020 election, sort of realizing when it got down to the wire that some of the people I grew up with who definitely grew up in a very specific thought tradition, they came out and said that they had changed. Well, I was, I mean, you could have knocked me over with a feather. I was shocked that some of these people had changed.

And I wished that I had sort of seen the lead up to that. And I mean, like, look, we're not all documentarians. We're not going to, like, document our thought process. But do you know what I mean about just being like in the, just posting in the middle place, just being like, hey, I'm doing this. I have mixed feelings about how I'm voting. but I've decided to do this, or hey, I'm reading this article and then share the article, and it's making me think about this.

Like, I just wish there was more of that type of language in our personal feeds. You know, it's a whole different thing when you're talking about, influencer feeds and all of that. But just in our personal lives, I just don't see this happening. And I think it's very alienating all these absolutes that are out there. because if you start to change, you feel like shame. You feel like, well, I can't let anybody know I'm changing. You know, or maybe I'm resisting to change myself. Like, oh, no, am I changing?

Shoot, I don't want to change. It's too hard to change. Oh, it's so hard to change. No, I think that that you've said a lot of brilliant things in the time that I have known you, but that might be one of the most profound things because I haven't really heard it spoken that way before. Of course, when I want to post something. thing. I want to feel like I'm standing on shore ground so that if someone comes at me, I'm like,

no, I have done all the research. I have read every possible thing. I am so sure of my footing here that there's no way you can knock me over. And we start from a posture of defensiveness already. And assuming we start assuming that people are going to come at us with teeth bears, knives out, just like ripping us apart. I'm going to find the flaws. I'm going to find the loopholes. I'm going to find where you messed up. And you're absolutely right that without seeing the, because we all go through process when we change in anything. Like you don't, it's just, it's not on and off. It's not a binary thing. It is such a process, usually for longer than we realize, you know, you look back and you're like, I'm thinking about this for a decade. And I didn't

even know. And to think that we are keeping those things to ourselves until we are 100% absolutely sure about whatever this thing is because it is a self-protective thing, understandably so. Like you said, it's almost more vulnerable to post the process. But without people posting the process, posting in that middle place of, I'm not sure what I think about this. I'm not sure. as an invitation to connect with the people in our lives who might also be in the same place or who might not be, but to be like that this is who I am today, you know, kind of like the selfie language of like, this is what I'm thinking about today. This is what I'm processing through today. This is what I'm completely unsure about today. I don't know. It feels really

scary to be like, okay, everybody, as an individual, start posting the middle, start posting the process. But it really is something that is a cultural shift, isn't it? Like, in terms of controversial things, we're sort of fighting against a social media culture of speaking in absolutes. And so it feels really scary to walk into that, like void on your own. But if no one starts walking, you know, then no one starts walking and no one does it. Well, listen, you know, the deepest change, our real change is happening off the screen. You know, it's happening in conversations. It's happening in, you know, our personal life in our journaling or introspection or are educating ourselves or whatever.

Real change is happening off the screen. But I will not vilify the screen for the change that has happened in my life. I mean, it has been very much aided by the voices that I follow and these things that I'm learning when I open myself up to a lot of different perspectives. And so, you know, if you're not willing to like post your process all the time because that's so hard, that's a big ask. But, you know, just one post like that can spark 10 amazing conversations offline. You know, just one post like that at your next, you know,

Girls Night Out, Book Club, holiday dinner might end up sparking a really meaningful conversation that needed to be had. And it just came from one vulnerable post. Like, again, we're not all going to just like take up the charge and become like social media middle warriors. But I do want people to just think about if I just once a month, you know, if I just occasionally post a little bit about where I am and kind of what I'm thinking through, what that sparks in our offline world as well, I think this is how the needle moves in the world. I mean, I think how this is how big cultural change happens. And it's already

happening this way, but it's happening in such a divisive, way because of the absolutes and, you know, there's just so much that happens online that just feels like pitchforks. Yeah. And if you only share absolutes, I just am realizing this. If you only share absolutes, you're not opening a door to conversation to anybody who doesn't agree with you completely or who disagrees with you completely and it's just going to be a yelling, it's going to be a shouting match. So if you share the process, you're actually giving permission for people to ask questions because you don't know all the answers. You're not sharing in such a way that says, you're not going to knock me over. You're not going to, you know, like, that's not the purpose. That's not what matters about that.

So I feel like that's just a really profound thing. And even as we, you know, think about how we post online with this kind of topic maybe, with where of that process, those process shares that feel vulnerable. Even as we think about how that's going through how we're dealing with that in our own lives, it changes our posture towards other people who are speaking, whether in absolutes or in the process. I feel like it shifts something. I can already feel it's shifting something in me when someone shares something that is quote unquote controversial to have a lot of grace for the fact that like if they're sharing something that's absolute, man, what a process that's come before to even ask like, how long ago did this start shifting in you? Like, I'm, I'm really

curious about that, you know, like that there are questions to be asked, that there's conversations to be had. And if we just go in with our armor on, there aren't, you just can't have conversations from that. So, and that's the whole point, right, is, you know, you, you teach us in your space on your podcast, which I've talked about in this podcast before, 10 things to tell you. It's like, when we share our stuff, we give other people permission to share back. And it's about connection and conversation. It's not about, here are these things. And it's not a performance on a stage. It's, it's sitting together and talking about that. And maybe that's part of it too, even as I say that phrase, that we see social media as performing on a stage because it's like, here's the thing,

curtain closed. Here's this thing that I'm sharing with you. It doesn't feel as interactive until someone chooses to interact. But maybe if we kind of go into it with more of a community posture, a connective posture, even something like Facebook or Instagram, even in how we comment that there is just this, this posture of openness and curiosity and conversation and even with people who are sharing absolutes. I have a chapter in the book that is called When Did It Change? And I give three examples of when something may be.

changed for me. And the one that's the most tender to me and the one that's, you know, really a milestone in my life and very important to me was one conversation with a loved one. And he shared something with me that changed my entire belief system about something, which is one conversation. Now, this was almost 20 years ago and it was a pre-social media time, but I can see that playing out now that sometimes your world changes on a dime in one conversation with one important post. It shouldn't have all this weight. It shouldn't have all this pressure. I'm just saying this is a thing that exists. And I would not have changed in a growth way, in a way that is positive to my life if he hadn't shared with me. You know, it was,

it's like that pivotal. And I think a lot of us can think of like one conversation or or one thing on the internet that really made us go like, whoa. And that's when it started to change. Like I already said, my belief systems started to change a lot five or six years ago. And when I say that, when I say that exact sentence, I always get follow up emails or DMs to be like, but how did the change happen? Like how did you do this? Which is one of the reasons I wish I'd sort of documented it. But we want to know how other people are changing. We really do want to know. And so it does matter our posts and our comments and our sharing

because one conversation can make a difference in someone else's life, truly. By the way, you guys, so Laura just said a chapter in her book, one of the questions in her book. She has a book called Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First that comes out in a week and a day from when this episode comes out, which I'm so excited about. We'll get to that in a second. But this is why I hope that you all are sort of hearing, well, I know you are, you're hearing

the heart that Laura has and you're such a permission giver with sharing. And it is something that is so desperately missing from our lives that I just think about the difference that it has made, that your work has made in my life where it just doesn't feel as scary as it once did, it carries the right amount of importance. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't feel like this heavy yoke that I'm carrying. But it also is like, no, this is a beautiful way to connect with people. And it has dramatically enhanced my life. So I'm just really excited for you guys to hear from Laura. I would, as promised, it would be a good thing for us to maybe just share like if you have any house rules, as I call them in the lazy genius way, about how you sort of share online.

when you also have a business. Because I think we both probably have a couple of ways that we approach that. I know for a while you didn't share your kids' names. Like I remember that was like a big thing where you've been on the internet for so long and you're like, you guys, I'm going to tell you my children's names. It's time. So how has that, what does that look like for you? Well, there's a lot of things to think about when you work online.

It's like a very thin line to walk between taking a stand that matters. to you and also not alienating people who, you know, you're trying to serve that you hope become customers or, you know, clients or whatever your business is. It's hard. I mean, you and I've talked about this in our mastermind behind the scenes like over and over of when you choose what matters if you're willing to take the hit of that financially and, you know, businesses across the nation are having to think about these things. right now, especially, but a little bit always, I'm sure. For me, most of the things that I've made rules around sharing are less about like paying customers or whatever. I don't really have that.

And more about like privacy decisions in our family. My husband is a director and producer. He has a lot of people who like to keep up with him. And so I have had to make decisions around our family. So for 10 years, more than 10 years, I kept our children's names off the internet. I don't know how that happened. They didn't even make it on Wikipedia. There were names for our children on Wikipedia, but they were wrong. But they were wrong. So somehow I managed to keep our children's names off the internet for a decade. I finally decided like, this is silly and said their names in the last year. And then I also write about the children in the book. So I use their real names. I also have some house rules about how I interact on the internet.

So this is less about what I post and more about how I engage. And I've had to make these rules like a little bit for just my own sanity. But even if you don't have, you know, a huge platform or anything, you might think through some of these things that will make your life easier, kind of your decide once principle. One is with very few exceptions, I do not engage with people who don't have a profile picture. You know, I just, I have some DM rules that sort of keep my workflow going and keep me from popping off. Like if something makes me angry or hurts my feelings or brings up any kind of emotion like that, if someone sort of comes for me, I give it a beat because I can be reactive.

That is not good. That is not good energy. I really think about those type of things that will, like I try to think of like a bigger picture in that way. how I can remove certain tasks from my plate, like I'm just never going to respond to X, Y, Z, or I'm always going to respond to X, Y, Z, anything like that. Yeah. Those are my house rules. And these are evolving because sometimes things change that, you know, make us rethink about how we're

going to share, how we're going to engage. But I'd love to hear yours, actually. Well, I think, actually, the distinction that you just made, you don't really have rules about what you share, but how you respond to people based on what you share. And I think that's such a fascinating difference that could probably, I'm sure a lot of light bulbs are going off with people. It's like, oh, because you, if you make decisions about what you will share based on anticipatory stress about how people might react to it, then you're not going to share. So instead of doing that, because we need to share, it's important. I think that that's what we all want deep down and see the benefit of.

And so instead of thinking about what am I going to share, think about, all right, what are my rules here? about how I'm going to respond if someone is not just negative about something, but like we were talking about before, about compliments. You know, like, I am not going to give like preamples about why this thing happened when it might not have or whatever. You know, I'm going to accept this fully or whatever. So to think about how we, how we respond, I think is a really important, lovely permission giving distinction. For me, if I feel like, well, I try to not. not in terms of like controversial things. I actually try to move those to DMs

and supposed to them being in comments of a post, mostly out of consideration for the person who I know that people are going to come after. You know, like if someone comes at me, I know that people are going to come at them. And so rather than having that whole conversation happen in comments and putting them in a position to be reacted toward, I'm like, can you DM me these thoughts

and we can do it over here? you know, like because that feels like that's where any, any connection might happen if there's going to be. So that's, that's something, at least in terms of controversial stuff. And then I think that I have found you and I are, you and I are the same and that are both of our, we're both very connected to our intuition. And if I feel like I need to talk about something, if I feel in my bones that I need to say these words, not even controversial ones, just I remember a post I did, it was months ago, but it was about being a mom who doesn't like to play. I don't like it. I'm not good at it. I don't enjoy it. That doesn't mean I don't do it sometimes. But it,

there wasn't like a, there was no question in me of, are people going to think of my bad mom? Are people going to, because it felt right to say it. It felt right. And so that's not really a good rule for a lot of people who maybe are not as connected to what feels right and what doesn't. But honestly, that is sort of like my North Star in terms of how I make my decisions. Does this feel right to do? I'm like, yeah, okay, let's do it. Well, you and I approach that DM thing differently. I'm going to say that because this is where we really differ. It is. I was going to say, it took us a long time to get to where we are very different about how we communicate. So if it's a very personally sensitive topic, like anxiety, postpartum, things like that, of course, I will engage with that in DMs, because that is someone sharing their heart with me, and I really want to hear that and respond appropriately.

But for controversial subjects, you do not get to come at me in my DMs. No, sir. You have to put your come at in the comments. You're going to put it publicly before you get to come at me privately. I just will not stand for it. Like, we don't know each other. So you don't just get to attack me in my DMs. You do not.

Like my big rule in life that I just yell at everyone all the time is you teach people how to treat you. I am not perfect at this by any means I can misstep on this. But in general, I want to teach everyone in my life and in my social media channels how to treat me. And they do not get to treat me badly in my DMs. Yeah. Even if they have a good point or something like that, they don't get to do it privately. They have to do that publicly. we can either have a conversation or not. But to me, people feel like that they have this permission

to DM you something nasty because it's private. And I just, I know. But another thing I'll say about this, that I gave myself permission in the last year, I'd never done this before. I gave myself permission to turn comments off. I used to think that turning comments off was like a cowardly move or I've seen other people complain when when people turn their comments off about like how dare they turn their comments off. And I really believed that. And in the last year, I was like, yeah, no, that's not real. I am completely able to turn comments off if I do not have the bandwidth to respond to everyone. Or if it's a very sensitive thing. And I don't want a flood of comments that I'll say the same thing. It's just, it's, that's not what's needed. I wanted to share

the thing I wanted to share. And this particular one just doesn't need comments from you. You can either keep scrolling or you can unfollow, but my comments are off for this. And that's not up for discussion. Right. And I only did that literally in 2020. I'd never done that before. I've done it a couple times. I think just two posts, but it was exactly what you said. It's like, I want to make sure, like, I don't have the energy. And so, but this feels important to say. And so we're going to say it and we'll do comments another time and it's fine. And I love what you said about your own boundaries with this because it sort of gave

some clarity to mine, which I think is, you know, like you said, that your rules for this are in process as are mine. And I think that what I, what you have given me a better language for is that when I ask people to talk to me about into DMs, it is only if I feel like there is a genuine curiosity there. If it's someone who is like sort of not quite absolute, but they're like close and they don't, they're afraid of process or they're afraid of change or they're, you know what I'm saying? And I, and because that processing now, now I'm rethinking it just for the sake of like keeping processing public. So people do get to see an example of it as opposed to it being private and DMs.

But I think that's what it is, is it is the protection of absolute mindsets towards people who are of a different absolute or who are not absolute at all and are just asking questions. That feels like a risky place. But based on our, you know, some earlier words, it's like, oh, having that process be out there could actually be really beneficial to more people as opposed to, you know, because it's a protective. thing. So that's a really good, that's some really good clarity for me in that. Yeah. Also, well, in that same vein, the way I handle it, because I do get really good questions in DMs or I get really good responses sometimes. And I remind people of this all the time, so this is not shady. If you're part of my Instagram community, you know that I do this. I screenshot my DM conversations and post them in stories. Yeah. I hide names and photos. I'm not,

trying to, you know, be weird about it. I'm trying to show what you're saying, this conversation in process, because I will respond to this person's heartfelt question. But then I'll be like, you know, if one person asked it, 10 probably are thinking it. So I'm just going to post this. Our DM conversations, nothing on the internet is private. And I also want people to know that like really strongly. When I'm screenshoting and sharing, it's not to be any kind of deceitful because again, I protect the person who sent the DM. But what you post on the internet, even in a direct message, it's not private and it could be useful for someone else.

Clearly, that is very personal to me in the community I've built. Not everyone's going to do that, but I'm just, I want people's wheels to be spinning a little bit and how they engage with people. Just for some clarity too on some different rules that I have. Like if someone says something to me in DMs and they don't follow me, like I don't engage with people who don't follow me. You know, it's like, you don't know who I am. You don't know my heart.

So we're not doing this. Thank you for being. You know, like, bye, bye. And I do it very nice. I have like a quick reply written of just like, thank you so much. I see that you don't follow me. So this is not a productive conversation for either of us, you know, like moving along. Wait, you reply to them?

I do actually because I think that it is a to use your phrase of teaching people how to treat you. It's almost like teaching people how to just treat people where it's like I'm not, I'm not doing this with you because you don't know me. You're not invested in this community. You don't follow me. So no, thank you. Like, and just kind of leave it at that. That is such a baller move, Kendra.

I can't even tell you. You've never, I don't know that you've ever. said that I've made a baller move before and how I treat people on the internet, you're usually telling me to be like harsher or like set stronger boundaries. I feel very validated right now. But no, I think that it's, it's, I'm so glad that we, because you and I both are verbal processors and sometimes don't always know like truly how things are until they're spoken out loud. And so I just really, I'm such a fan of this conversation because it's helping me realize that we are making choices.

Like even the title of this episode was how to know what to share online. I think the question isn't what to share. The question is how are you engaging when you share? Like from the selfie stuff to the controversial stuff to if it's your business, it is all about really where are we taking steps and setting boundaries and creating house rules and having a posture of curiosity and openness where it is warranted. like how are we after things are shared? Because if we name that the point of sharing is connection and we all want to connect, then the question isn't whether, isn't whether or not you share or even

necessarily what to share. It's the after that. What are we doing after that? Okay, you have a book coming out. I have a book coming out. Okay. I'm going to just, I'm going to go ahead and say really quickly, you guys, so I've read, share your stuff. I'll go first by Laura Tremaine. And like, okay, I mean, I know it was going to be good because you're a good writer and you are a lovely human and it's just like, of course, this is going to be a good book. I was not prepared for how riveted I would be by your stories. Like, I feel like you need to consider maybe being a fiction writer. Like I, there were, I was, I was in it. Like, some of them felt like thrillers. Some of them felt like rom-coms. I mean, I was just like all the genre. I was, I was captivated. I was captivated. And I read it on computer paper, like printed out like a stack of computer paper. It wasn't even a book yet. And it was just like, I can't, I can't stop. I can't stop reading this. So just so you guys know, I think the reason that I think that this book is beneficial, especially if you have listened to this episode and you hear, you hear how good Laura is

talking about this kind of stuff. The point of share your stuff, I'll go first, if I am correct in that is that is exactly what we've been saying is we share stories from our lives you offer 10 questions to ask and then you answer them yourself with your own stories multiple stories for the same question often to give like different examples of how that can look and then what those stories do i don't know how you i don't know how you write a book of your own stories and make me think about my stories more i don't know how i i know more about you and also somehow know about myself. Like, it's just this really amazing, like, alchemy of words that just wakes up your own stories and gives you tools of how to share them with other people or how to invite other

people to share them with you. I mean, it's just, you guys, it is so good. I cannot even. Did I explain it well? Is there a purpose behind your book that you want to say to the people listening that I did not say? No, you really summed it up well. I am just like beaming. with your kind words, so thank you. But the book is really for people who aren't sure how to start sharing. And by the way, this conversation for the podcast was about sharing online, but the book is about sharing in your life or online or anything. It's not about the internet. This can be just about in your real life conversations, in your friendships, like how to deepen that connection. And a lot of us just have no idea where to start with that. Like we have our mommy group,

where all the talk is just surface level all the time, and it's just not fulfilling. And so I am providing you 10 questions that you can start with. They're actually more than 10 in the book, but there are 10 chapters with these big questions. Some of them are deep and hard. Some of them are light and fun. Like you can take those actual questions and text them to a friend, or do this as a buddy read with a friend, where you each answer the questions together after you read my answers. So that's what the share part is because a lot of us, we just have no idea how to raise our hand

and be like, I have something to share. Like people don't want to do that. It's so random feeling. So I'm giving you the questions. It starts with the question and then you can answer the question. That's how you share. And then the I'll go first part is someone has to go first. And most of the time we want someone else to go first.

because that's just easier. But when you're in a friend group or you're in a community or a job or something where no one is going first, everyone just ends up feeling isolated or lonely. So many of us are deeply, deeply lonely. So I just want to empower people to say, I'll go first. Fine. Here's my answer. Here's the question.

Here's my answer. Your jerk. Oh, I love it. It's just so good. I will, I mean, I'm not going to lie. Like this story, Laura tells a story about being a kid, like a scary moment as a kid. And it was like I was reading, it was one of my, it was one of my favorite fiction reads of 2020 and it wasn't even a fiction read. You're just such a good storyteller.

Just such an incredible storyteller. So I'm so excited for the book to come into the world. And it's like the, it's the most beautiful book. The cover is just the dreamiest. It's the dreamiest. So where can people go? for information on the book. Share Your Stuffbook.com or if you want to know all things, Laura, Lara tremaine.com will lead you to my podcast, the book coming out, all my social media

channels, all of that is at laura tremaine.com. We'll put all the links in the show notes too, so you guys can just click. But this feels like a really fun, like, I mean, we've been celebrating that you have a book coming out for a little while, but this also feels like a really fun, just like parties getting started. It's actually close enough that. it's like in boxes probably going to people's houses right now and it's just the funnest thing ever. So, um, okay. Well, my friend, thank you for being here. This has been such a delight. I loved this so much. Kendra, you're my favorite. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you learned something about yourself and your own way of being on the internet in this episode. And I'd love

to hear about it. So why don't you come and tell me on Instagram. If you don't follow me there already, I'm at The Lazy Genius. And I hope you follow Laura too. I will link to her in the show notes, but her account is at laura. That's Tremaine. That's T-R-E and then Maine like the state on Instagram. And don't forget about share your stuff. I'll go first.

Her book releases February 2nd. And if you are listening to this episode before that release date, her pre-order bonus is super magical. One of the components is basically a mini podcast called The Secret Tate. where Laura interviews people from the book that were in her stories and asks them questions about those stories. The one that I'm really, really excited to listen to is a conversation she has with her husband, Jeff, about how he feels that so many of her stories include ex-boyfriends. There are a dozen conversations where Laura models what it means to share your stuff and how it can impact and deepen your relationships. They are just so, so good and only available for people

who pre-order the book. So go to share your self. stuffbook.com to check it out. Thank you so much for being with me today. And until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra, and I'll see you next week. Hold on because my phone's ringing. Can you hear it? My phone never rings. I don't know what's happening. I can't hear it. But I love it. It's like, wait, what is literally happening? It'll stop in a second. So you say, this could be like, like a horror movie beginning. It just keeps, keeps ringing and ringing.

Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that. More dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life? Because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You.

People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.