The Lazy Genius Podcast - #227 - How to Know What to Read Next with Anne Bogel

Episode Date: September 13, 2021

You guys, we have Anne Bogel on the show today to help us be Lazy Geniuses about deciding what to read next! She hosts her own podcast aptly called What Should I Read Next? And I’m delighted she’s here with us today to talk about planning our fall reading lists, how to get unstuck when we’re just not into a book, and what her new reading journal is all about. Helpful Companion Links Anne’s podcast What Should I Read Next? I’m a guest on ep. 27 Books good enough to make you turn off the tv and ep. 245 Finding the right mix for your reading life. My Reading Life: A Book Journal by Anne Bogel (releases Sept. 21!) Other books by Anne: Reading People, I’d Rather Be Reading, and Don’t Overthink It This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi there, you're listening to the lazy genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is episode 227. How to know what to read next with Anne Bogle. Anne Bogle is the host of one of my favorite podcasts, what should I read next, where she talks with a reader every week about three books they love, one book they don't, what they're reading lately, and then Anne helps them name what they might want to read next. I've learned so much about my own reading life from Ann, and I think you will too. In this episode, we talk about fall reading and how to figure out what matters to you about your full reading, how reading only one book a month is actually really fantastic, why we get hung up

on quitting a book that isn't right for us, and I gush, I gush, you guys, over Anne's new reading journal that I am obsessed with, called My Reading Life. I'll tell you more about it in the episode, and then at the end. But for now, let's jump right into my conversation with the book guru of all book gurus and the woman who is absolutely the lazy genius of reading, Anne Bogle. Hi, Ann Bogle. Hi, Kendra. I'm so happy you're here. It's so good to talk to you. Thank you for having me. I've been on your show two times. And now you're just bragging. That's not what I've been. No, it's like I've been on your show two times. We talk in person as like, human friends often but this is I realize like this is the first time that you're here really in front of the lazy genius community is it really it is and I'm so high lazy genius community I know it is I mean I talk about you all the time because I talk about reading all the time and you have single handedly

kind of revolutionized how I approach my reading is it obnoxious to take a big like bow or curtsey right now how do you do that on a podcast no I am honored. Thank you. Imagine. Imagine it. But no, and I, and that's kind of what I wanted to talk to you about today because we're like entering into the fall and we're trying to get back into sort of normal rhythms after, you know, a very unnormal, unrhythmic year and a half. And I think that reading is such a grounding part of that for me. Like reading is such a way to be like, okay, I am a person. This is what my day looks like. And I want to bring on the literal lazy genius of reading, which is you. Like you're the, you're the best. So I'm so excited

to talk to you about fall reading today. Thank you. I feel like everybody can't hear that I have like this goofy smile in my face right now. It's like, oh, stop it. But also truly, thank you. I want us to help listeners figure out what their fall reading can look like. Where should we begin and figuring out what fall reading looks like? I don't believe in book bossy because all of our lives are different. Our reading tastes are different. There is no book that's right for. every single reader. Oh, my skin crawls a little when somebody says, everyone should read this book. I want to go, well, but I'm so glad that you're asking these questions about fall reading and seasonal reading, not because there's anything magical about fall reading. Wait, hang on, there's totally

things magical about fall reading, but I mean, as opposed to the rest of the year. But because I'm sure it's not just me who's experienced that phenomenon where your schedule change, And all of a sudden, without you even realizing it, you lose the habits you had that you thought were pretty firm in your life. But then the weather changed or your kid's schedule changed or you started working in person instead of from home. And all of a sudden, you forget to listen to audio books on the commute or you, well, for me, it's always running.

I go on vacation. I get home. I forget what my schedule was. And I forget how to exercise. It's only been a week. Why does that happen? But for many people, that's what happens with books. Like in summer, we get in a reading routine.

and then the schedule changes and fall feels more businesslike for a whole lot of people. And all of a sudden we don't know when to read anymore. And then we don't. And then we don't. Yeah. Right. If you lose the momentum of when you read or if you don't know that you will read anything as long as you have something with you or that you're like a momentum reader.

If you get out of the habit, then you'll be out of the habit. That's how I am. Like if I stop reading, if I end a book and I don't start another book within like 24 hours, then it's, I'll go two weeks and I'm like, wait a minute, what happened? It's like you forgetting to exercise. You just forget. It's wild. That's super common because you're not, there's nothing obvious to do next.

Like what's standing between you and a book is a decision. And you talk about how hard decisions are, but also how to make them easier. And yeah, it's a real thing. It's not just you. Yeah. It's something I say on what should I read next all the time too. Like whatever struggle you're having in life or the reading life, like it is never just you.

Never. And you have books yourself that you have written. One of them is called Don't Overtink It. And don't you feel like we overthink our reading a whole lot? That like you just said, what's between us and the book is a decision? But we're like, but when am I going to do it? And where am I going to keep my books? And I need to organize my bookshelves this way.

And how am I going to log it? And we can get so overwhelmed with all of the ancillary decisions about reading that we overthink the reading and that we don't read. Yes. So many people do this. And I mean, something I say in my book is it's not overthinking if you're giving it the amount of thought you want to. And many readers really enjoy, you know, lovingly strolling through their bookshelves or scrolling through the books they picked up on Kindle when they were $1.99 and thinking about what they could read next. But at a certain point, you'd rather be reading.

So how can we begin if we're feeling that way, moving into fall reading? We're like, I don't know what to read or we're kind of stuck on some of the secondary decisions. what is like a one question or one thought or one strategy that we can take to kind of begin? First of all, I don't think we're going to talk about this much, but you want to figure out when you're going to read, just having a rough idea in mind, like 10 minutes after lunch, 20 minutes before bed, first thing in the morning. On my Kindle in the checkout line, just knowing when you're going to read can help you make sure you're making time for books. But the other thing that's so important is to know what you're going to read. So when it's when you think, oh, wouldn't it be nice?

to read a book right now. You can read the book instead of first having to make this, what can feel like a big decision. I would encourage you to think about what you want from your reading life right now. Fall means different things to different readers. For me, it's a return to a bit more structure and seriousness. And I'm a big nerd. So that's not necessarily a bad thing in my reading life compared to summer, which is kind of loosey-goosey for me. Like I read in a very specific way to get ready for the summer reading guide. And when I'm done with that, I basically read whatever I want for a few months, especially because we have trips and vacation and weird schedules in there. I read differently when there's lots of daylight. Maybe that's something for readers

to think about. Your days are getting shorter. That's definitely impacting your habits outside and inside your home and may affect your reading life if you're a regular reader. But to me, September is all back to school and bouquets are sharpened pencils. So I know that I'm specifically on the look out for, I love campus novels, like set at a school setting or featuring students. I tend to read a little bit darker. Like I love those spooky but not scary books, especially in October. And this is also the time of year when I'm more eager to read for personal growth and read for information, you know, like interesting biographies or narrative nonfiction histories, that kind of thing that I do truly enjoy reading, but

aren't as fun? Like you can really love reading a book and still not have it be fun. And in the fall, I tend to lean a little more scholarly in an enjoyable way, but not like snapcrackle pop like some of my summer reads are, which I have read very many of your summer reading guide reads and they are. Those snapcrackle pop ones though are so much fun. But you're right, they don't land the same for everybody, at least for me in the fall. I love that idea. of sort of naming again what it what it is that you want like what fall reading means for you whether it means scholarly scary very literary classics you know a lot of people will revisit classics in the in the fall and winter that kind of thing but to name whatever that is for you

and I love what you just said about the months because here's here's what I think happens there are a lot of people in this audience who are all or nothing people they are either like I need to read 100 books a year and log every single thing about them or I'm just not going to read it all. Like reading one novel a month feels like they're not doing enough, right? And so just to say to anybody listening who is sort of that kind of reader that would you rather read one book and love that book or be upset that you didn't read four and not read at all? Would you rather sounds like the beginning of a very scary party game? I'd rather read the good books because truly, if I read a ton, in part because I love it,

in part because I'm an introvert and this is my coping strategy slash recharge mechanism of choice and in part because it is my job. But still, if you could say and you will read one book that you love or that you're glad you read every month, that would be a small percentage for me. But I would not turn that down. That would be amazing. Yeah. And when you think about what you want, not just what you want from your reading life, but what you want from your reading life right now. That's such an important distinction. The odds of reading something that's like clutch to your chest best of the year are solid. Like even I don't read, I probably read 20 books a year that I think are truly outstanding. So if you're reading one book a month and can read, you know, have amazing reading experiences, that's fantastic. Right. Also, reading is not a competitive sport.

Like there's no, I'm actually really reluctant to talk about how many books publicly because I don't want to imply that that's necessarily better or worse than anything else. But on the other hand, I do know that readers who have books on deck that they are excited to read do tend to read more. So if that's a priority for you, then just getting you excited about what's in front of you, like creating a clear path where you're thinking this is what I want in my reading life right now. And that can mean the month. That can mean the season. That can mean the next five days of your work week. But it really makes those decisions easier and makes the reading more enjoyable. I feel like if anybody is stressed about it, then you're probably forgetting what matters about reading in the first place. Like if you're overwhelmed by it. And that's not like a, I don't mean for that to be super generalized of like, well, if you're stressed out, you're doing something wrong. It's more if you are stressed out about your

reading life, pay attention to what you really are stressed about. Is it because you feel insecure about the number of books that you're reading? Is it because you set a goal in January to read X number of books and you're very behind and you feel like, well, I might as well give up now because you are sort of beholden to this arbitrary number that you chose? Like, there could be any number of things that are contributing to any sort of like angst around your reading. And the point for all of us, ultimately in our reading life is to enjoy it. Like we read for enjoyment. Oh, enjoyment looks different. It looks different for everyone in different seasons, obviously. Like what is enjoyable? But that's sort of the point. So if you're not enjoying your reading life or the process around it,

let's try and figure out like, why? Why is that actually happening? And one of the things that I have learned from you in your show and in being on your show is that if I, if I, am reading based on what I think I should be reading, then I do not enjoy reading. So I have just learned, every time I listen to what should I read next and hear very different, like you said, like you prioritize having lots of different kinds of readers. And I will know, like I don't usually love literary fiction. I don't usually love it because plot is my favorite thing. You have taught me that. You have taught me to name, okay, do you really love character? Do you love writing? Do you love plot? Do you love things to move? Do you like to, when people come on your show and they say,

I love to find like just an epic, widespread, thousand page family saga. I'm like, I would die. Don't make me read that. Andrew, I want to read that. I want to read that right now. I know you do. Okay, that's a little long. But yeah, that's my jam. And so just to not feel like weird or bad or comparative when what somebody else really loves that might feel like what you're supposed to be reading, what you should be reading. If it's not what you love, you don't have to feel bad about that. Read what you love. And that is something that I have learned so much from you. We'll be right back. Aw, isn't something we need to travel for. It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art. I'm Dr. Keltner,

host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Let's move to that part of like, how does someone figure out what kinds of books that actually do love that are going to keep them reading? That's a great question. Okay, but first, can I anecdotally share a what should I read? next. It's not lost on me, by the way, that should is in the title of my podcast. It took years for that to occur to me. That's the question people ask, I recommend books they may enjoy picking up next. Not that they should. So we started what should I read next in January 2016, but really just in the past couple years, there is a massive surge in readers saying, I'm stressed out about my reading life and it's because of Instagram. Like I don't think, I don't think that's unique to my audience.

And I just want to say to listeners, if you get on Instagram and you look at all the books you're not reading that other people are and could be and could be enjoying and you're not reading enough and you're seeing all these books all the time that you could be reading and you're never going to get to like four this month, let alone like the 400 that just look good as you were scrolling. You are not alone. That is a real thing. people who get a lot of satisfaction out of their reading lives who are pretty good at walking into a bookstore and being like, that looks like it's the book for me or who can like not stop the scroll on a book where they're like, oh, buzzy, fuzzy, busy, busy. Sure, it's popular,

but I don't think it's going to be something that I am going to enjoy. They know what they like. And I'm just speaking in generalities. There are certainly reasons to read books that are outside your comfort zone or not necessarily immediately hospitable. But I always think of it like if I'm going to be on an airplane, I want to know what I'm going to enjoy. That is not the time for me to slog through a book club read that I wouldn't pick up and don't particularly enjoy. I may be glad I read it. But if you want a book, you can enjoy. I'd ask myself questions like these. Like what genres do you especially enjoy and what do you gravitate towards? Like you just said, you don't read a lot of literary fiction and you're not really into family sagas, but you like ploddy, ploddy books where lots of stuff

happens. There's a lot of external action as opposed to like a slow brooding interior, deep characterization, beautifully written. That's totally code for boring for some people. Some people read books where they want to learn something like, I don't know, a book about the eradicating malaria may make somebody's like, ears perk up and make other people yawn. And that's okay. Just know which one of those camps you're in. Yeah. So some people like those character-driven books that focus on inner transformation. Some people like the plot-driven books that you feel like you're reading an action movie. It's good to know how you feel about your characters. Like what interests do you about people in the

book? A big question here is, do you need them to be likable? Do you need characters you can root for? Some people need somebody they like and want to know in real life. And some readers really enjoy watching terrible people make terrible choices and then either get away with it or totally get what's coming to them. Yeah. What kind of person are you? And then there's pacing questions. Like, do you have patience to let a story unfold slowly or do you want strong narrative

drive that will keep you turning the pages? Those certainly aren't all the questions you could ask yourself, but it's a good starting point. So when somebody is describing a book to you and they say like, oh, it's fascinating how your inner head the whole time. It's so quiet and brooding. And you can say, that sounds like something I will read if assigned or if I want to branch out, but not the book I want to take to my beach vacation. Thank you very much.

What's good about knowing some of the answers to some of these questions in general? When you match that up with where you get book recommendations, whether it's going to you know, a bookstore reading, you know, Goodreads reviews, listening to a podcast, a friend is recommending things to you. To even have just like a couple of questions in your brain for that person or for your, when you're reading those reviews or whatever to go like, are, are there words like brooding? Like like unfolding, you know, whatever. I always look for the word propulsive whenever somebody describes something as propulsive. I'm like, okay, I'll keep listening. listening. Like it's, that doesn't mean that that book is necessarily for me, but that's one checkbox.

And it's like, oh, I love, I love something that's propulsive. And so I keep reading. I also have a couple of other, like, random keywords for me that I have learned from, from listening to your show is I don't think I have read a book about a circus that I didn't like. Like a weird circus book. I love circus books. Whatever I thought you were going to say, that wasn't that. But like, because I I love sort of off center settings. I mean, I love like straight up fantasy, but you're the one who introduced me to magical realism. I didn't know that that was like the name of it or that, you know, like basically reality, but just like a just like a taste of magic. And I love, I love that kind of stuff. And when that is sort of set in like a kind of a dark circus situation,

my favorite. So I have like a couple of circus books on my Kind of right now, because I just know. I know those key words of like, I, the chances, it's, it's the, it's taking a risk when you read in a way, but it's very low risk. And the chances that I'm going to like a book that has like a dark cover with like sort of like weird gold, uh, like swirlies on it. Then there's something about like plot and there's mystery and it happens like in a circus. I'm pretty sure it's going to be a winner. at least like a seven or eight. So anyway, I just think that like having some of those things as you're, as you're engaging in places where you do get book recommendations to just pay attention to like, is this going to be for me or not? Like you don't have to force something into your box. It's just, it's kind of like choosing this path and then it branches. It's like, oh, I'm going to keep walking. Like you keep walking and then decide, yeah, this feels like a good one for me. And the more I know that you would agree with this because you said this on your show, the more that you read. even books that are not for you, the better you get it knowing what is for you. That's so true. In fact, I think sometimes we don't even realize what we like about the books

that we love with our whole hearts until we read something that we don't really enjoy. And it's in that that gap between what we liked and what we didn't, that we're able to see the difference and see perhaps what the one that didn't work for us was missing. But until we know what doesn't work, we can't necessarily see what's working about what does. If I'm, if you're not reading books that you abhor every once in a while, then like take some chances. Take some chances. But also I always just approaching my reading life with a spirit of experimentation. Like I'm just going to, I take a chance on a lot of stuff that's pretty out there for me. And some of those books become my absolute favorites. Because a book that

not only I find to be delightful, but also really surprises me. Like that's the recipe for a best of the year, the decade. Oh my gosh, I love this so much combination. But it's, yeah, it's okay to try things and have them not work out. Like that does not make you a failure. That makes you a discerning reader who's just going to sample and see what sticks. That is okay. Would you say that your tolerance for that for being an experimenter has grown the more you've read? Or did it? Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Well, here's what happened. You graduate from school. All of a sudden, nobody's telling me what to read. you have to figure it out for yourself. And the contemporary fiction I get picking at the library was bad.

Like even though it had the like national book club stickers on it and was on the recommended library read shelf, it just wasn't right for me. And so I really thought like, what am I doing wrong? And really had this reckoning as being very dramatic. We really had this, had this like soul searching about who am I as a reader? How can I make this work? I know they're good books being written. Like how am I going to find them?

And that has, it has certainly been a journey. I mean, it's a really fun journey. And I hope I can spare some listeners that frustration that makes you think, okay, I know how to read. Like, what am I doing wrong? What am I missing? People are talking about books they love and either I hate the books that they love, or I can't find books that I'm really enjoying. I hope I'll spare you some of the like frustration and also just confusion as to what other people seem to be doing that you're not. The answer could very well be they're just talking about books and saying they're great because the smart people seem to like them. But spirit of experimentation, find some good sources for Rex. We can make your reading life amazing. There is a resource. And this feels like the whole thing was like, and the head, the curtain.

And I actually didn't mean for it to come out that way. So you have a book coming out tomorrow, September 21st, called My Reading Life. It's a Reading Journal. You sent me the digital copy just so I could like see. And I'm obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with it. That makes me happy. And I, And the reason I am is not just for me, but for everyone listening to, is like all the things that we have talked about. That's why it's sort of like behind the curtain and the answer to all of your questions is my reading life by Ann Bogle. But that book has so many tools in it that are personal and versatile. They are not prescriptive. You know, things you have, you have places for people to actually like log what they're reading. And when they started and when they finished and some

thoughts they had and maybe a favorite quote. But there are not so many, there are not so many things on the page that make you feel like you have to manufacture content for your reading journal. You know how sometimes you'll buy a planner and it has 20 boxes of things that you're supposed to write down and you're like, I don't, wait, what? I don't care about that. Or you think, oh, wait, am I supposed to care about that? Okay. Well, I'll blah. And I think that a lot of sort of reading journal focuses, even ones that you make yourself, you feel like you have to add so much more than you necessarily want to. And so there's just space for what you want, but it's very, very simple. You have tips for getting out of a reading rut. You have ways to questions to answer,

to figure out what it is that you do like to read. You have seasonal reading lists. If you like spooky things in the fall, if you like, you know, actually, I didn't know that you put my book on your list, which was so incredibly kind. I forgot to tell you. I know. That was like the coolest thing because I was reading, I was reading the list like, oh, these are so fun. And then I saw my book on there. And it made me smile really big. But next to all those book lists as well, I don't know if this was intentional, Ann, but it was kind of brilliant where there is not a, not a square, not a checkbox next to the titles. There is a diamond. And so you can fill in the diamond. I was thinking like, oh, I could fill it in if I've read the book. But it doesn't look like I have, it doesn't look like a

checkbox. It doesn't look prescriptive. It just looks like a pretty bullet point, but it is a bullet point that I could color in if I wanted to. That was 1,000% intentional. Because that was absolutely perfect. When I saw that, I was like, oh, my gosh. It lets you enjoy the process of the marking off if you want to or even marking off like books that you've already read, you know, if you get the journal for the first time and you're like, oh, I've read those. I've read those. I've read those. but it doesn't feel like a job. It doesn't feel like a rule book of you must read these. Like, well done with that tiny, tiny detail.

And those kinds of thoughtful details are throughout the entire book. Like, it's just, it's perfect, Ann. I just love it so much. I'm so glad you're excited about it. What's your favorite part of the reading journal of my reading life? What's your favorite part? I mean, honestly, that you can put it in your purse, I think. Can I say that?

Yes, of course. And I do like, I obsessed over the reading logs for the individual books. I didn't want lines. You'll see that it's a dotted journal because everybody writes different sizes. But I just tried to put in the little details that I have seen over the years when readers pay attention to these things. They're better able to discern patterns in their reading lives. And that means they pick out books that they enjoy more, which means that this part of

their lives they turn to for joy and escape and relaxation and knowledge. like they're able to get more of those things. Like some of the examples are like how I discovered this book, what the themes are, who the publisher was. And I know that sounds super nerdy. You can skip anything you want to. Like I think the sections are small enough. You can just skip over it or choose to track something else and that'll be fine.

It was also really important to me to not have star ratings, but we do have diamonds where you can individually mark how much you enjoyed a book differently from how well written you thought the book was. Because those are different things. And that difference trips up a whole ton of readers and confuses them about if this book won the Pulitzer and I think it was horrible. Like where does that leave me? You know, for readers to think about.

But I do really like how it's compact because here's where I get into trouble. Of course, I talked to scads of readers about what they are. looking for in a book journal would really help them in their reading life. But I was thinking about what I do to undermine my own reading life. I mean, Kendra, this is basically your principle of put everything in its place. So we often don't think a bookish clutter or mental clutter is being clutter, but it totally is for me. Like that's how I think about it. But before I had a dedicated book journal, what my to be read list looked like was a couple of random notes in my daily planner. Post-it notes on scattered all over my desk. A couple of bookmarks in my browser and Instagram,

you know, you can do the little save feature. Like it was everywhere and it was a mess. And then the book side read, I wouldn't want to forget. So I wouldn't return it to the library. I'd leave it stacked up on the cart before I could log it. But what this journal does is it let you, it lets you log it all in one place. Like there's a my to be read list in the book where you get to track not only the book and the author, but how you heard about it. it. Because if you told me to read a book today, I always think there is no way I will forget that Kendra told me to read that circus book. But in three weeks, I'm going to see that it's come in at the library and I'm not going to have any idea why. Unless you said something really,

really hysterical about it, which is possible, which maybe makes this a bad example. But, but like there's a place to track in the journal. Like, this is why I'm excited to read it. So that way, when you go back and look at your notes later, it makes sense. And you can track what you've read and what you want to read, like in other bookers things, like who you've loan books to or borrowed them through or bookstores you want to visit or literary experiences you want to have, along with those other tools you talked about. I'd like to think this could be your, everything is in its place. If it has to do with my reading life, it's right here. I don't need to be scrolling Instagram when I need a new book. Like you can save all that

information in your journal so it's there for you and you need it. And plus, there's all kinds of lists. There's 25 different lists in the journal, some of which are seasonally appropriate. which we're talking about today, you know, books for fall, winter, spring, summer, books set by the water, books about plants and gardening. So if you're in need of something to read, you don't have to go out there into the world or the depths of the internet to find something. But I hope there's a lot of inspiration in those pages. Anne is very, very good at communicating what a book is about, but more importantly,

who it's for. So I think that's why your summer reading guide is so good is because everything is grouped very creatively for different kinds of readers with different kinds of themes. And, you know, it's not just like here are 10 books to read. Like you always have multiple qualifiers of why that book might be good for a specific person. And so it's, you know, you don't have to go far outside of my reading life at all to get enough books to carry you for like a really long time, for a year even. Like there are a lot of books in that. There are way more books than anyone can. ever read a year. But what's great about it is it's not that those lists are, these are the ones that you should read this year. It's like, no, these are some ideas and some categories. Pick one. Pick one. Pick one. And it's just, and it's like so cute and pretty. It's well designed and simple. I'm just like, we're recording this episode before like a good bit before the reading journal comes out and I'm kind of mad about it because I want it right now. I'm not just saying that. Like I, yeah, when I opened that PDF and I started going through it, I was like,

Oh my gosh. I want this so bad because I, I use Trello to keep track of a lot of my TBR and what I have read. I know. I think that's so cool. Yeah. And then I have like a little, like a little journal that I write down, not just what I'm reading, but it's just for this year. It's like journaling across. It's just like things I want to remember about my year. And reading is a big part of my life. And I want to remember those things. But the idea of having all of that together and not just. just together, but like appropriately, efficiently together is magical. I'm so excited. I'm excited. You're excited. Well done. I can't imagine how hard it was to try to create a reading journal that fits any kind of reader. And you, I think you did it. I think you did it. Well, you guys, you can find, I really want you to listen to, I don't usually recommend other podcasts because there aren't a lot of podcast hours in people's lives and I want you to listen to mine. But I also really, but I also, I really recommend what should I read? I mean, I'm not, I'm not just like spitballing

and like trying to butter your biscuit. Like I, I listen to every single episode. I learn something from every single one. I don't get a book recommendation from everyone because not every reader is like me. And I know when when this person's list their three favorites and what they want, I'm like, this is not a reader for me. But what happens is when you recommend the books for them, I know, like, those are probably not books for me. Like, I even know that to kind of pay attention to that. So it's just the, it's just such a great show. And I want people to listen to it so that they can improve their reading life as well. Anne Bogle, you are a delight. Congratulations on your reading journal. And thank you for being on the Lazy Genius podcast today. It is my pleasure.

Thank you so much for having me. And that is it for today. I love getting to talk to Ann. I love it so much. And in fact, she and I are getting to talk again at a book event at Bookmark's bookstore in Winston-Salem, North Carolina next Friday, September 24th. So there is a chance that when you're listening to this, there might be tickets still available. So if you enjoyed this conversation and are local in any way, check out the link in the show notes for information on this event at bookmarks, which is one of my favorite independent bookst of all time. It's a delight. And of course in the show notes, there will also be links to Anne's book, my reading life that releases next Tuesday, September 21st. Between the time that I recorded this

conversation with Anne and now, I have gotten an early hard copy of my reading life and it is a dream. Small, intentional, so pretty, full of resources, but not too full. I just cannot wait to see how this impacts my reading life and yours too. So if you are a reader in any way or want to become one, my reading life is such a great tool for you. Okay, that's it for today. Thank you so much for listening. And until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra.

I'll see you next week. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You, wherever you get your podcasts.