The Lazy Genius Podcast - #283 What It Really Means to be a Neighbor with Shannan Martin

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

This is one of the best conversations I've ever had. Shannan Martin is the author of Start with Hello, a beautiful book about being a neighbor. She is a true Lazy Genius in this area and offers so many ways to start small in our relationships, for example with saying hello. This book transcends neighborhoods, lifestyles, and family structures. We also share places we've been awkward as neighbors and how one interaction, even if it's the last one, has a significant impact. You will eat this up, you guys. What a gift this conversation was to me and will be to you, too. Helpful Companion Links Start with Hello by Shannan Martin (out October 11th!) Shannan on Instagram Shannan’s Pickle Recipe This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And sometimes, a smooth, silky latte just wins. It's exceptional but effortless. Like actually effortless. Simply press, brew, and explore. Nispresso, what else? Keep exploring at Nespresso.com. Hey there, you're listening to the Lazy Genius Podcast. I am Kendra Adachi, and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is episode 283, and it is a conversation with my beloved Shannon Martin. Shannon is the author of some of my favorite books ever, including Falling Free, The Ministry of Ordinary Places, and the recent book Start with Hello and other simple ways to live as neighbors. Shannon and I talk about. the challenges of being a neighbor, especially after so long of not really being in connection

with anyone, why it matters. And we share some pretty personal stories about our own insecurities in being a person who shows up, even in the tiniest ways of saying hello. Emily P. Freeman described Shannon as a sidewalk poet, and she is very much that. That is such a good description. Shannon is a fierce, passionate person who cares so deeply about helping us be neighbors in ways it actually matter. And I cannot wait for you to listen. So here is my conversation with Sheen and Martin. We should talk more just as human beings and not when we're doing a podcast interview. I agree. It makes me kind of sad. I know. I know. We decided we'll do it. One of the things that you are so good at sharing with us is just really great ways to start small and being a person and

being a friend and being a neighbor. And that's we're just going to start small with that. It's like we're realizing now we don't talk enough and now we're like you know what I'm going to put something before we get off I want to put something on the calendar where we're just like let's let's have like a zoom let's have a zoom morning coffee or something like that let's face time and just like chat we'll decide once Kendra will we will how many principles do you think we can name in this conversation um okay so i i already kind of um introed uh your new book which i'm so excited about I realized my I endorse this book everybody. And I think all my endorsement says is like, this is the book we've been waiting for. I was so excited about it. I was like, I don't even know what else to say. This is just the book

we've been waiting for. Well, I mean, that means the world to me for you to feel that way and to say that and to have endorsed the book. So thank you. Yeah, absolutely. So tell everybody why this book and why now. Yeah. So this is my third book. coming out start with hello um and and it follows the thread that began with my first book and my second book so falling free ministry of ordinary places there's a thread through all of them of me living in this neighborhood which my family moved to maybe 11 years ago so it sounds like such a long time and it feels like a minute um but but moving to this neighborhood launched us into the space me particularly just within myself and as our family but

you know, we're individuals too. And so it launched me into the space of wanting to know and really grasp what does it mean to live as a neighbor? Why does it matter, you know, what's the deal here? And just learning how to do it and failing many times at doing it. And mostly learning from my actual neighbors, learning how to do it from the people around me who have taught me so generously. So after my first two books, what I found was people were saying to me things like, we really loved your book. It's great. But how do we do it? And I would be here like, I just wrote two whole books about how to do it. Like what do you want for me, you guys? But I knew that there was, that there was still more to say. And what there was to say was a very

stripped down basic simplified version of how do we do this thing. And it's really, you know, a lot of authors will say this, but this is the book that I desperately wanted and needed when I moved into this place 11 years ago and even before then, you know, in a way that I didn't quite understand that I needed it. But I think we are just, we're in a place right now. We're coming out of, you know, a time of isolation. We are existing in a place of deep division and kind of side-eyeing each other and feeling like we're being side-eyed. And, you know, how does this work? What, what is this project that we're all kind of a part of? And, you know, it almost feels like an experiment. Like, can we make this work together? We're not sure we can. And so that's the why now.

I mean, this is, this is the field guide. I don't like to think of it as a how-to book. Because I still really rely on story. That's my main method of writing and really understanding the world. And so it's it's very story driven. But it's also really kind of step by step. This is how to do the thing. And we need it right now because, you know, we keep kind of inching towards what feels like the edge of a cliff as a culture, as a society. It feels so scary. And I think if we really started to look each other in the eye, it would just feel. much less scary. So how can, so here's what I hear when you say those words. I'm like, yes, Shannon, you're right. And then I'm like, that feels enormous. It feels enormous, which is why you wrote the book, though, because the book is not full of enormous solutions. The book is full of the tiniest, the tiniest wonderful solutions. So, because we are a start small community around here. And so I would just love for you to share practically like one or two things from the book of ways that we can't. I mean, the title is start with hello. Like, that's maybe the smallest

way that you could begin in saying, like being in community with someone is just looking them in the eye and saying hello. Yeah. But I would love to hear a couple of ways that we can make that smaller. Yeah. I mean, that's really how we landed on the title. And it feels so obvious in hindsight, but it really was challenging to land there. But titles are the worst, man. That's so hard. But in hindsight, I mean, it really, that, it's just the essence of the book. It is the tiniest little simple baby step. And, and we don't have to find ourselves like, overnight, we are Fred Rogers. I mean, that's not going to happen. It hasn't happened to me in 11 years. You know, it's a, it's an ongoing decision. It's a kind of a posture where I'm choosing to say every day with my life in different ways. And very quiet, small ways. I understand that that living here in this place near these people matters for some reason. It matters. And I want to spend my life, whether I stay here forever, whether I move on.

You know, I want to spend my life really understanding that being connected to the people close to me is significant, even if I can't always say why. But just having that belief within me that it matters. And like you said, I mean, just saying hi to people. Number one, my most simple and basic step, and I start the book with this, and I talk about this a lot on Instagram and all the places, paying attention to this physical world, paying attention to the sky, paying attention to the ground, to the trees, to the homes, to our neighborhoods, whatever they might look like, whether they're brand new to us, whether we've been in these places forever, but really deciding that we're going to honor this place that we are with our attentiveness. leads us to a place where we begin to notice what changes and what stays the same around us. And it ultimately leads us to each other so that we can begin to kind of recognize each other. And then we can begin to say hello.

And, you know, every relationship that we have right now, whether it's, you know, a really meaningful relationship or just kind of a casual acquaintanceship, they all did start with hello. They started with that simple act of acknowledgement and attentiveness and understanding that there's some type of secret power in that. There was that reminds me. I hadn't thought about this in a long time, but that reminds me of there was a season where I was taking a walk around my neighborhood the same time of day. It was during the pandemic. So I don't remember because everything is different now than it was then. But I would take kind of the same route and it was a longer route.

through the neighborhood and I would run into this not literally but I would pass this guy who was probably he was probably 17 or 18 and um walking his dog and um every time I passed him you know I would smile like I'm friendly and I look and I mean I say hello and it's like hello but but we would pass each other it was like several days in a row that we would pass each other around the same part of the street and one time I said I don't even remember what I said but I just sort of acknowledged like you're the guy always walking his dog. I'm the lady always walking. We always meet right here. And I just said, I'm Kendra. What's your name? And I don't even remember what his name was. And honestly, I never saw him after that. Yeah. Which I could be he as I say that out loud,

it could be that I scared him away or it just could stop walking that route. But like the, I understand the vulnerability of even saying hello to somebody. But that attentiveness. I just love that. You just said, honor the place you are with your attentiveness. If I hadn't really been paying attention and just noticing this kid, I wouldn't have noticed him again and again and again. And I knew that he probably, well, maybe he didn't, but maybe he recognized me as well, that it was like, oh, this is this lady. I keep saying. And how that there is a vulnerability in that. But everything starts there. Every single relationship starts there. You have lived where you live for 11 years. I've lived where I live for almost 11 years.

Holy moly, yeah, for almost 11 years. And I just want to say out loud to everyone listening, not from like a, what's the word I'm looking for? Not from like a like see, woe is me or any of that, but just from a reality check, I know the names of all my neighbors. I do. I know the names of all my neighbors.

Have any of them ever had a meal in my house? No. Now the ones who live next door to us, it's a rental and so families come through there pretty regularly. And we did have a couple of those families that were there. We did have them over for dinner once. And so it's kind of like, so it's not like, I feel like I'm trying to like put myself like you're like, I've had some people over for dinner before.

But I'm just saying like I have relationship. I think we have in our, here's where it is. I think we have in our heads that there is the specific picture of if we're not doing these 10 things or whatever with our neighbors, we're not actually being a neighbor. Yeah. And so because of that, we don't start at all. Right. Because we can't get to a place of saying like, yes, I have dinner with all of my neighbors or I know the names of all of their children or I know like most of the people who live around me, actually everybody who lives in direct connection with me are retirees, empty nesters or single women. There are no little kids like right around me, none of them. And so there's not a, it doesn't feel like there's a natural pathway in like, let's have. dinner because right there's not like we don't have the same life stage and so i'm i feel like i'm sort of rambling here but just to say you said you're still learning this and you are an active attentive neighbor like you're you're paying attention to this in a way that probably most people

aren't and you've been in the same place for 11 years and you're still learning i really care about my neighbors and i say hello and i'm not afraid to do that and it doesn't look like the way i think people think it looks. Yeah. Like it takes its own path. It takes its time. And so it's like, I just don't want anybody to think that if you cannot make your, um, relationships with your actual neighbors and proximity to you look a very, very specific way, then you shouldn't try it all. That is just, that's where, that's why we stay stuck. Right. It's very slow work. And it's allowed to be slow. And we are allowed to accept that it's slow. Um, I have so many things I want to say to that. First of all, I think it's a really big deal that you know the names of your neighbors,

first of all. Like, that's one of the simple steps I talk about in Start with Hello. That is a simple thing that many of us, it's not even that we neglect to do it. We have all different kinds of reasons that we don't necessarily know the names of our closest neighbors. There are some neighbors on my block whose names I don't know. But I think it is a big deal to be a way. and available in the world so that when we have opportunities to make those connections,

we don't miss them. You know, it doesn't have to necessarily be about like going door to door, although I'm not above that either. That has its place. But, you know, that we are just, that we are,

that we understand that there's a certain kind of safety and security in knowing and being known by the people around us. That's the first thing I want to say. Like, you know, sometimes we get this idea into our minds or maybe I'm just speaking for myself that like people are scary, you know, that we've got to kind of keep our distance and and keep those walls up. I'm not talking about being best friends forever with all of the next door neighbors or going on vacations together, although I think that would be really cool at some point. what I'm talking about is just this the simple basic level of care that that we can know that the people closest to us have our backs and that they know that we have their backs. You know, whatever that, whatever that looks like, whatever that might mean for our future. I also want to say that I use

the word neighbor really loosely. So I do think it's significant to know that the people in the homes or the apartments or whatever around us. But I also think, you know, the coffee shop that we visit regularly, the grocery store, the library, you know, all these places where our lives intersect with the lives of people around us. If our lives are intersecting, we are neighbors. And that can mean something to us. But the last point I want to make that feels somehow related here is that I am a deep and true introvert. And I fight, I fight myself. all the time. I have to push myself past my place of like base level comfort, which is inside with the door closed, reading a book, nobody talking to me, nobody looking at me. And so that's where

I say like 11 years in, I'm still a work in progress because I've learned over time in a way that is really pretty across the board that when I have pushed myself past that that base level of comfort. I have never once, I have been awkward many times, many times have I been awkward and felt awkward. But I have never walked away from those encounters feeling like, well, that was a waste of time. You know, like your story of saying hi to the guy, I believe with my whole heart and soul, Kendra, that that mattered, that it was meaningful, even though you never saw him again, And it really matters right now for people to just to look upon us with kindness, to notice us. There's a woman who walks past my window.

She walks to and from town multiple times a day. I have met her before. She has never been inside my home. She's not, I've not had dinner, had her for dinner, whatever. But there's just something meaningful to me. I just saw her, I don't know, 45 minutes ago walking past. And it's like just that acknowledgement. of, okay, it's grounding.

Like, this is where I am. These are the people around me. I'm not close friends with her, but if something happened to her, I would notice. And there's something to that. There's something powerful to that. We'll be right back.

Aw, isn't something we need to travel for. It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art. I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. There are three men who, not to get, two men walk together, and then there's one man who walks alone every morning.

And I notice when they're not walking. Yeah. But like if the two men who walk together, if it's just one of them, I'm like, is the other one okay? Yes. is the other one on vacation? Like what's going on? You know, like, you're right that that at this, the smallness,

but the significance of just being attentive. Yeah. To where you are is so important. I think, um, you know, you mentioned, you have like a loose, um,

definition of the word neighbor. And I just want to acknowledge, because you said the word apartment as well. I just want to acknowledge to that a lot of times when we get information, this is why I love your, book so much too. A lot of times when we get sort of practical or even sort of like philosophical information about being a neighbor, very often we're hearing it from people who live in the suburbs who live on streets, who live in single family homes with porches and all of that. And that

there is a, I think an embedded challenge in say living in an apartment, living where there's not maybe as much of a communal place, like, or that your rhythms are just different, living in a big city, you know, like all of those different things. And so if you are someone who is not in a sort of traditional, like suburban neighborhood or something with streets and porches, this book is still written for you. It has help and tools and stories that are relevant to all kinds of people and all kinds of neighbors. So I just want to make sure that anybody who's like, well, it's another book on neighboring. And I don't have a yard to build a fire pit. So I guess I'm out, you know, like, right, right, right. That's not real. That's not what this book is. So I just want to make sure that that

that is clear to you. Well, and a lot of my friends, Kendra, you, you kind of know this. But, you know, the neighborhood we moved into is, is a really diverse place in every sense of the word. And one of the, in one sense is that it's like a lower income neighborhood. And so we have economic diversity around us. You know, any type of diversity you can think of is present here in this place. And that does mean, like you said, this is a neighborhood that people come and go. There are a ton of rental properties. So that's part of the fabric of my place. The other point is that my husband, and Corey works as the chaplain of the county jail. This is a neighborhood where a lot of his friends coming out of incarceration might land.

And that's just brings a different element to it. And I think of my work at the window. I work as a cook two days a week at sort of our soup kitchen, our community soup kitchen. And a lot of my acquaintances and friends there are homeless. And so my point being, this is not about how to be a neighbor in the suburbs, although it works for the suburbs. Right.

You know, because I know a lot of us that is where we live. But it's more about the, it's less about kind of the place or the home or whatever looking a certain way. And I really kind of belabored that point in the book that it's really, we come to think that being a neighbor is about, you know, having our homes look a certain way, being a good cook, being comfortable, entertaining. And really, it's, if we're to the point of trying to entertain, we've kind of missed it. Yeah. You know, if we can really allow ourselves the comfort and the space to, to drop all of that, to scale way back, and to just think of these basic moments that can often build up to somebody sitting at our dining room table with us or on our back patio or whatever that may be.

I mean, that's often part of it, and that's been a part of it for me and for my family. But it starts way earlier than that, and it starts at a much more simple, basic level, where really the goal is, here I am. Like, this is who I am in my daily. Just sorry, not sorry. This is what I'm like.

This is what I look like. This is the state of my home. It's chaos right now, even in this moment. I mean, there's stuff everywhere. But to be able to say, you know, if somebody knocks on my door that I could welcome them in without feeling like, oh, no, what I have isn't good enough, or I'm not prepared, or I'm a mess, or I'm still in my pajamas, or, you know, all the things that have happened to me so many times. But understanding that we're really all looking for the same things, no matter who we are, where we live, no matter if we are just coming out of incarceration or we are fighting through addiction or, you know, any number of situations, we want. to be known. We want to be generous. We want to be trusted. We want to be heard and seen. And so coming to that place of starting to build those simple steps into like this long haul project of getting

better at these little things and letting it build slowly over time and knowing that when we do those things, we do ultimately feel less alone. We feel less afraid. We feel less cynical. We feel more connected. We understand on a little bit of a different level, what does it really look like to belong? That's the goal. This is a community that really values empathy, which I am so grateful for and appreciate. And one of the things that I feel like is important to share with having you hear is that you have been a kind of singular voice for me and a singular companion for me in moments where I have felt incredibly awkward or incredibly uncomfortable in my moving into spaces and in interactions with people who look different than me,

who live different than me. And you guys, whenever, there have been several times where I have had, I took my kids to the black barber shop to get their haircut one time. And there was, I felt really uncomfortable because I was the only white lady there. My kids aren't even white. You know, my kids are like, my kids are mixed race. And I was the only white person there. And it was very obvious. And there have been other times like that where I have been the only white person in a room. And you were one of the first people who said to me in the kindest, most loving way because I was like it just feels it just felt really hard it felt important but it felt really hard and you said I don't even know if you remember saying this to me but you said back in the

day I think it was actually it was a it was when one of my sons was invited to a birthday party and we went to this person's home and there were multiple cultures that were represented there and I was the only white person there and I was like oh I feel really uncomfortable and you said what a gift though that you get to experience the discomfort that a lot of those people feel in places is that you are comfortable. Yeah. And I've never forgotten that. I've never forgotten that that every moment where I feel awkward

is a way for me to work the muscle of empathy in recognizing, at least in the tiniest bit of what the experience of someone who is more marginalized in America is like. And that alone, that alone is enough value if there is no continuation of that relationship. That's it.

Like that that is so valuable. And so you mentioned, you know, you mentioned like being awkward before. And I just kind of want to bring that up that like every moment of us being awkward no matter the reason in a relationship is showing us that we can be. It's showing us that we can be. And that we're more okay with it the next time it happens. And then it helps us identify and see and be attentive to use that word that you used before to be attentive in the places that we are with the people that we see that like, oh, I bet they feel really uncomfortable right now. Yeah, yeah. We can survive awkwardness. We can. And we learn, I mean, we learn over and over again. And I, you know, if, if one of the things, I think there, there are plenty of barriers holding us back, holding us away from each other. And I think the fear of awkwardness is one of them for me. And definitely. And so I, you know, I'm here to say, if you're afraid that it might be awkward, it will be. It will be. It will be. Like, let me just like ease your mind right now that there's, there's nothing you can do about that other than lean into it.

And I also recommend putting yourself on the other side of that. So like imagine somebody coming to you and being a little awkward. I don't ever walk away from that feeling like, oh, wow, what is wrong with them? I walk away feeling like, oh, thank God. Like they, they don't have it all together. They are just a human doing their best. So I get to just be a human doing my best. and we can be awkward together and there can be a lot of grace for this.

I love, I totally remember the barbershop story. I remember having these conversations with you and I've always appreciated your your willingness to just do the thing, to push through the awkwardness that is inevitable. An example that comes to my mind in a similar way is that, you know, some of my neighbors speak Spanish. I don't speak Spanish. I took three years of high school Spanish and I retained very little.

But I have learned and it feels very awkward every time. I mean, most of my neighbors over time have really, their English has gotten much, much better. My Spanish has not improved. But though communicating together has become easier over time, it's important for me to try to speak in Spanish to them because it reminds me, like they get a huge kick out of it. They think it's funny.

And so that can be a connecting thing. But it gives me that feeling of like, you know, this is what, this is what others feel. Like this discomfort of trying to speak a language that is not our first language is really a humbling experience. So anytime we have that opportunity to just kind of to reset our posture to a place of humility, to be the one who needs something or the one who asks for help first. That's one of my favorite ideas. One of my favorite simple steps in working towards living as neighbors is to be the one to ask for help and show up needy.

I mean, all of these things run counter to so much of what we've been taught and told. But it's in those small acts that like you said, even if that's all that encounter ever is, it's changing us. it's shaping us. And I really believe that even, you know, the other people or the other person involved, like it leaves a mark. And those are the interactions that ultimately bring us together, that take us away from this idea of me and bring us back to the center of us together. That reminds me of a story. There was a kid that we knew years ago and he died tragically

when he was 20, I think. And at his funeral, one of his friends was giving a eulogy and said something like he always and this was in you know he grew up in a Christian family he was in a church and that was why it was my favorite thing when this friend said he always uh would ask people on the street for a cigarette like when he would he would rather like he would um rather than going up and just like without looking putting a few coins in a cup or whatever it was he would go up to that person and bum a cigarette off of him. because what it did is it made them feel like they had something to offer. Yes.

And it was, I just remember being like, absolutely blown away. Yeah. By that example. And so I love that. I love that very simple step of like, you can be the first one. Just be the first one to ask because there is something for sure. Because like there are very many people who are listening to this who are for sure white. And then I would say even a large subsect of those people are.

profess faith in Jesus, right? That they would say that they are Christians and that there is something that we have been taught and that is like in the water of evangelical culture that we are out to save. And then we are out to be the people who are going to offer all the solutions and all the help as opposed to like you said, just said, resetting our posture to want of humility and that we get to ask. We're not coming in. We're not swooping in.

Right. To be like, yes, how can I help you? it's like, do you have this? I lock myself out of my house. Can I use your phone? I like even just like anything, you know, anything at all. It doesn't even matter what it is, anything at all. And it doesn't matter what kind of neighborhood that you live in.

Right. Like still do this, you know, that you can still put yourself in the position of humility and that you are asking for help and that you can seek connection with someone. Yeah. So I'm so glad that you told that because I haven't thought about that story of that kid. I love that story. example, yeah. Yeah, we would rather be the ones with butter, like the ones giving the butter. It's the truth.

And because that's a fact for most of us, that is our reminder that it's so important for us to step away from this cultural thing that says independence is such a virtue when interdependence, like leaning on each other, taking turns, celebrating together and suffering together, even in really small ways, is a much safer and beautiful and funny and delicious way to live? You know, like, it just, it just is. Yeah. So I want to ask you one more question before we go. And that is, we kind of reframe things a lot around here, because I think a lot of like cultural definitions need some rework. Yeah. We need to be reworked a little bit. And I know that you feel that way about the word hospitality.

And so I think that's a really lovely place to sort of like put an end here. It's like how would you define or want to reframe hospitality? How would you reframe hospitality? I, it needs a PR manager badly. It's such a terrible word. It's so fancy. And you know, I grew up in evangelicalism too. Like it's so like, it's so Christiany in a way that's unhelpful.

I haven't found a really suitable like one word replacement, but I would say a working definition is asking for what we need and offering what we can. And so it puts us on both sides of that equation, which is really important. If we are only helping, if we are only giving, we are like and I, there have been times in my life that I have postured myself that way in the beginning, especially of this journey. If I'm the one always giving, I'm, basically a very poorly run nonprofit, very disorganized and shoddy. And that's not, that doesn't lend itself to living as neighbors. You know, that's, we've got to be, we've got to be on both sides of that. So yeah, that's, that's where I would land.

That's, that was so much better than any answer I could have hoped for and I knew it would be good. Oh, man, asking for what we need and offering what we have or offering what we can. Oh, that's just so good. It's so good. Okay. Well, I'm, I really, really cannot. tell you guys enough how good this book is. I mean, Shannon is a, just a beautiful, Emily calls you a sidewalk poet. I love that. Oh, my gosh. It's like the perfect description, but you guys, Shannon is like, it's kind of annoying how good of a writer she is. And so it is just a beautiful experience to read her books. But there is also like this rootedness to your stories. There's a practicality to kind of the takeaways from them.

And I think that this book embodies that just tremendously. I mean, when I say it's like the book we've been waiting for, it really is. Like, I know that this is a community that you'll read this book and you're like, thank you. Because it meets the needs that we have for being neighbors, being neighborly, and also, like you said, being on both sides of that coin. Yeah. And there are practical, small ways.

for this, as you call it, this long haul work. And so I'm just, I can't wait for you guys to read it. So please, please go and get, start with hello by Shannon Martin, Shannon with two A's. There's no O in her name. That's great. So as we, as we go, I just want to ask you, what is something, you know, when we are lazy geniuses or geniuses about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. And I just want to know, what are you lazy about and what are you a genius about? Okay. This is so easy for me. I am a lazy housekeeper. Love it. I mean, I'm just putting it out there.

And I've become lazier over time. And my place has kind of taught me the virtue even and in letting some of that go. I mean, there are people that are great at it that love cleaning. My mother-in-law loves to clean. I mean, I just don't. I like clear surfaces. I don't like a lot of clutter and piles. but I mean, should I mop my floor? Probably. I should probably do that today, but I'm,

but I'm definitely not going to. Um, okay. And the thing that I'm a genius about is food. Yeah, you are. I have, I have fallen into the rhythm of making it my, my, my, like, my purpose, my mission. I don't know, but I, I care a lot about it. I obsess about it. I think a lot about it. I part of being a genius about food for me and I write about this and start with hello means learning to keep things really simple when it comes to like eating with other people and having having people in my home to eat. But it also means that if I ever go on a trip with you, I will care so deeply about where we eat each and every meal while we are gone. I will gladly take on. I'm terrible at planning. I don't like to plan.

I'm not good at that. but I will plan every meal, every restaurant. So yeah, I'm not necessarily talking even about cooking, but I really care a lot about food and what I eat. It's really fun. I wondered if you would even specifically say pickles, that you would be a genius about pickles. Those of you who might have seen,

so Bree McCoy and I do like a series every once in a while, Instagram called Bree and Kendra Eat Stuff. And we did one kind of episode on pickles. and we taste tested a lot of pickles. And I was like, oh, that's a bad pickle. And Shannon, like, all caps in the comments. There's no such thing as a bad pickle. Like, it was the energy.

The energy was the delight of my life. It was so good. I was so offended, Kendra. Hey, have you, have you made the Shannon Martin pickles? No. No, I haven't. I know, which I feel, I feel like I've seen them circulating recently a good bit on Instagram.

And it's like, why have I not? This is the time. part of it is okay I'm writing this down that's another thing that we're going to do is we're going to plan like a like a facetime coffee sometime really soon and then I'm going to make chanin's pickles um one of the things that I am lazy about like I too am a genius about food I'm a genius about flavor like I really yeah about the food that I yes taste good like I don't want to eat anything that does not taste good like if we're going to have hot dogs I'm going to uh like turn on the grill and I'm going to grill and I'm going to toast my bun and butter in a skillet like I'm not

microwave it. Like if we're going to do it, I still want it to taste the best that it can taste. But one of the things that I'm lazy about right now is adding new things to our food. Yeah. It's pretty like set it and forget it in many ways. And so adding something new to the rotation like making Shannon's pickles is not an easy. It's not an easy thing because like we ordered the same stuff from the grocery store. We, you know, like we pretty much eat the same things. And so that's something I miss. I really miss that is having like newer things in my life. And so maybe I'll start small with adding something new. Yeah.

This is such a good gateway for you to practice that because it's, there's no cooking involved. There's no can or pressure cooker or whatever. I mean, it's so, so simple. And right now at least where I am, like cucumbers are still abundant. Yes. Like now is a good time of year to try it. And you just, I mean, yeah,

you just dump stuff in a jar and shake it up and stick it in the bridge. And they are, they're the best pickles I've ever had. I can't wait. I humbly say. I love it so much. I will have to, I will find, I'm going to make a note for myself right now to put a link to your pickle recipe in the. Yeah, you can, there's a really, my, my watercolor artist friend created a really beautiful little recipe that that folks can download from my website. Oh, that they want it. Yeah, it's like a free little thing that it's so, it's so beautiful. I love that that that is like a lead magnet you have. It's like a beautifully designed pickle recipe. It's like it's like evergreen. It will live there forever if I have any stay over it.

Most like iconic Shannon Martin thing ever. Oh, I'm just obsessed. I didn't know that. That's so great. Okay. Well, I'm just, thank you for being on the podcast. And I'm just thrilled that you're,

can I tell people that I'm your Aaron? Yes. Because a lot of you guys know, like when, you know, One of the wise words of doing work on the internet or being a writer or whatever is that you are writing to one person. You are making things for one person. Because if you try to make it for everybody, you don't make anything for anybody.

Like it becomes too general. And weirdly, the more specific you get, the more universally helpful things are. And so my person that I create things for, like pretty much exclusively is Aaron Moon, who a lot of you know if you listen to the podcast or the Bible Vent, we do. We love Aaron so much. and you've recently told me that I am your Aaron. Yeah. Which is like, I was like, that's the best thing ever, which is why everything you write,

I'm like, give it to me immediately. Like it's just so good. It's so. It was so helpful to have Kendra in my heart and my brain as I wrote. So thank you for being my Erin. So if you are like, if you identify with me in any way, I'm just telling you right now, you need to go and get this book like immediately because it is going to meet you in a way that you knew you wanted to be met, but within a way that you didn't expect to be

possible. It's just such a, it's just an absolute little golden nugget of a book. I just love it so much. I can't wait for people to have it. I love Shannon so much. I can't handle it. I cannot handle how she is such a necessary, kind, practical voice for what it is to be the neighbor. Also, she was not line about those pickles. I've made them twice since this interview. Twice is actually not enough times. It should have been five or six, but like I didn't have dill. I'm telling you guys they're the best pickles ever. This book, Start with Hello, releases October 11th, and I cannot recommend it enough. I cannot recommend it enough. This is the book that we need to step forward one small step at a time in being neighbors. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. And it

until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra. I'll see you next week. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is away. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to becoming you wherever you get your podcasts.