The Lazy Genius Podcast - #3: Raising Imperfect Teenagers with Meg Duerksen

Episode Date: May 17, 2016

Meg is creative, chill, and a mom of five teenagers. In this episode, she candidly and generously shares her experiences in parenting grown people who still live in your house. Her words are kind, honest, and freeing. I can't wait for you to listen to this episode and get encouragement from Meg. Meg's post on raising teenagers that we all didn't know we desperately needed. Meg's amazing Instagram feed that will make you so happy: @megduerksen Follow Kendra on Instagram @thelazygenius. This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, lazy geniuses. I'm Kinsa Adachi, and you're listening to The Lazy Genius Podcast. Here, we help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. This is Season 1, Episode 3, and my guest today is the creatively colorful genius Meg Dersen. Her Instagram account is one of my favorites ever. And y'all, she is the real deal. A wife and a mom of five teenagers. Meg is beautifully honest with us about how hard it is to raise kids. A lot of you have asked for help on how to raise teenagers, and Meg is an expert.

Not because she's done everything right, but because she loves her kids, admits when she screws up, and she gives the rest of his courage to do the same. I love to talking with Meg, and I know you're going to love listening to her just as much. I just, I feel like I've sort of won the lottery. a little bit in terms of I've got little tiny kids and your kids aren't tiny anymore. No. And so I kind of just want to like, like, soak in everything. Like, I'm just taking notes for myself about this.

But I wanted to, I'm so glad you're on because I wanted to talk to you. And I know a lot of people have questions about raising teenagers. And you have a lot of them. Very true. Can you tell me the ages of your kids? Right now? Yeah, right now. My oldest is 21.

Okay. And she's a junior. I think she's a junior. That didn't sound right, but I'm thinking of like the places she's lived. I think so she's a junior in college. And then Scott is, 17 and he's a senior in high school and Sean is a freshman in high school he's 15 and Talby is an eighth grader she's 14 and Annie is 11 and she's a fifth grader I forgot that you have an

Annie my baby who's coming is an Annie I've named her Annie so tell me tell me this I heard from Annie Downs she said okay so here's a thing Annie is a great name. Annie's lean into being Annie. Like they're kind of she's never met an Annie that's not like really spunky. Oh yeah.

Is that true based on your experience? At least for Miami. I mean it was I loved that movie. Is that what you mean? Like from that like that Oh the like Redhead orphaned Annie. Got it. Yeah. I loved

that movie growing up like so, so, so much and I know I still know every word and every song and all of that and I don't even like musicals but I love that one and so I think we watched it like kind of introduced my kids to it when I was pregnant with her because they were around that age and we just started um turn all my alarms off so yeah so we just kind of that's how we ended up like oh I really like that name and just kind of thinking about it more. And then we didn't pick it until she was, she was born. And then we picked names after that. And we just looked at her. I mean, we had a whole list of names, which she loves to look through her list of names that we were going

to name her. We put that in her baby book. So she loves to look through those. But it was, I mean, we just looked at her and everyone was like, oh, she's totally an Annie. So it's just funny. Did you do that with all your kids? Name them after they were born? No, no, we had pretty much everybody set. Like every name was picked, boy and girl and all of that. But with her, we couldn't decide, and we were so tired. I swear, we were so tired. It was such a blur.

I don't remember much of any of it. I remember that moment of saying, oh, she's an Annie. And everybody in the room saying, yeah, she's totally an Annie. I mean, I'm just looking at the ages of your kids, like, oh, my word, You've been tired for like 15 years. It's coming. We're coming out of it. Right.

It's what's interesting is like about three years ago just realizing like, oh my word, like no idea what I did for a decade. That's not. I'm not kidding. It's a blur. It's all blur. And like how did I function? Like once all of a sudden you start to get sleep and realize how in the world did I do that? Right.

And I don't know that I could go back. You know, I don't know. I'm sure I could, but I don't know how I did it. That's why you're supposed to be semi-young, right? I guess. So they say, I'm 34 and about to have my third, and I'm on like the cusp of high-risk pregnancy just because of my age, because I guess 35 is the cutoff or whatever.

And when I realized that, not, I mean, you know, 34 is not old. When I was 12, 34 was 8. ancient. Yeah. But now, you know, obviously, like, it's not old, but, but it was really weird when they told me that. They were like, oh, yeah, you're almost a high-risk pregnancy. We need to be careful. And it just kind of blew my mind a little bit. Like, wait, I had to keep taking care of this person. And you're telling me I'm almost too old to have her. I'm too old to carry her right now. I'm going to do this. I'm going to raise her as a human person. Like, this is so bizarre.

Yeah. Oh, my word. Well, I saw one, I mean, it was ages ago, but I remember reading on one of your Instagram posts or something, how you said, like, it was the weekend and you had slept in, like, till, like, nine or ten. Yeah. That life sounds amazing and also miraculous. Like, that's never going to happen.

But I guess it does. Yeah. This summer. My husband asked me like in August, he said something about, he said someone at work had asked him if I was enjoying my summer. And he said he thought about it for a little bit. And he said, you know, I really think she is. And I was like, I am for like the first time ever, like truly enjoying it. And, and I said, it's the sleep. Like it is being able to sleep. We're not mourning people, any of us. And so nobody wakes me up now. And so I can wake up on my own. Right. And I mean, that just sounds dumb, but it sounds amazing. It made the whole summer for me. It was every day I got to sleep until whenever I wanted and then spend time with everybody. Oh, I have a, I still have two boys at home today. So this isn't for you to do. No, go away. It's not a joke. Go away. No, and your phone's out there. Everything's out there. I'll see you after school. It is business. Yeah. Sorry. Really. Life is what it is.

Yeah. Oh, go ahead. You can do that, but I just don't want you to do that. But then take Stanley out and then don't come back in. I'm sorry. You need to apologize. I realized that, like, when the girls went to school, I'm like, oh, no, I'll still have two people home. And they'll come in.

Oh, because high school starts later, I would, yeah, I guess. It starts at 9 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Oh, wow. Yeah. Not my favorite. Well, everyone should just leave. at 7.30. Yeah, just everybody get out of the house.

Go take care of yourselves until school starts. Yeah. I wanted to read, okay, so I already knew I wanted to talk to about teenagers and about being a mom. But then I read the post that you wrote in February about teenagers. And I don't know, like, how you felt about writing it, what kind of response you got or any of that. But I was like, oh my word, can we all sit at Meg's feet and listen to her talk about this? Because, okay, so I just want to read. I'm going to read your writing to you.

Isn't that so fun for like half a second? Yeah. It was slightly scary to write and it was a long time coming. Like I just, so I mean, you can read it absolutely. But yeah, it took me probably a week to write it. I kept changing it a little bit just to make sure I said it. right sure sure you know I didn't want to I don't know go ahead well it's so I'm just going to read a little bit like a little paragraph and um oh my word it's just like I want to I want to type it out as like my

like my motherhood mantra all of it is so good you say um I want a formula for my parenting for parenting teens that would go like this if you love God love your kids provide for them feed them go to their ball games take them to the pool bake cookies play Legos and host birthday parties, then your kids will be well behaved, angelic, smiling lovelies that say, thank you so much, mother, for all that you do for me each day. Yeah, it doesn't work like that.

There is no formula. And I feel like, you know, when you have like an infant baby, so much of it is kind of, I was going to say formula-based, and then I was going to be like, like formula, like food, making a pun. I'm such a dork.

But no, like, you know, you think, okay, it's all, it feels more regimented, you know. It's like, you're on a three-hour schedule and you're, like, it's a little easier, ironically, to sort of maintain control with a baby. Even though babies do what they want and they cry and you go, like, insane. But there's something about it that feels a little more. It feels in control. It does. Yeah. And it took me into, like, so we had years of babies.

and I felt so good at that. Like, so good. Like, that is my, that was my, like, I was made for this is how I felt. And then my oldest hit her teenage years, and it was so hard. And so also I cry a lot, but. Totally great. Yeah. It was so hard.

and shocking and didn't make any sense because we had done everything right and loved her so much and you know we kept saying we're cool people we are not controlling we are fun we are you know we don't have ridiculous rules why is this so hard why does you know why does she hate us so much and so it took me i mean she's 21 and it started at about like 13 for her just that like shocking switch of what is going on like oh my gosh because everything was so fun for so long um and i that's what i finally realized a few years back of like it's control. It's that I lost control. Like I had, I was so, you know, in my mind, I was so good at raising babies and toddlers and I had a routine and we did everything my way. And, and it was a good way and

everybody did what I said. And, you know, and I mean, they didn't obey all the time, but I could let things go and everything was kind of in my control and I can figure out how to make everyone. happy and then it didn't work that way anymore once they had real personalities outside of what I molded around their day. And I would think too the transition of like right now, yeah, my kids, my boys are four and six. They don't, they don't listen to me. Like they do what they want. Right.

Within reason of a four and six year old boy. But they'll still go in timeout. Totally. They'll still, you know, take the punishment. And I'm still kind of the center. You know, like I'm still kind of their go-to person. And that's the thing. I was just thinking about the transition of when that first kid becomes a teenager.

Like, is that part of the transition? Is that all of the sudden, like, you're not as important to them anymore? Totally. That's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. It was really, it was hard. And I don't, you know, I don't think that every teenager is going to go through that.

And, you know, we have four of them right now. And, you know, and I would say Annie counts as a tween, you know. And they're all so different. And I don't anticipate anyone being as difficult to go through, like, the transition as it was with their oldest. just because maybe it was so shocking and it was so different, but, you know, she's also different. So I don't know, I don't know if their personalities will or if we're just a lot more prepared. Yeah, that was my next question was like, do you think that going into the next teenager, yeah, that was more about like, okay, this might be really terrible. Yeah.

There were a lot of tears of like of just saying, oh, what have we done? Like there's four more like that. I mean, and it was a real like it was a job. You know, we laugh, but it was like I can't. Yeah. I can't do this. And so we had to figure out what, you know, what we were going to, what we're going to do,

like how we're going to get through it. If this is how everyone was going to be, if it was going to be that hard because it was hard. I mean, and she just was just very rebellious. So it was just, you know, when you still have a three-year-old and you're dealing with all kinds of, you know, teenager, like super rebellious things, it's, and you're getting no sleep still. I can't imagine. Oh, my word. So. I can't imagine.

when I found out that we were pregnant because it was not planned at all. It was really like, what is happening right now? Like we had to put an addition on our house. Like there was no space for another baby. I made a, because I'm a crazy person, I had to make a chart of like how old all my kids would be and what grade. Like to sort like up until my oldest. was like 22, like to just try to get my head around, okay, what's my life going to look like? And one thing is when, you know, assuming everyone kind of stays on track with what grade they're in,

when my Annie is a freshman in high school, my middle kid, Ben, will be starting college or will have graduated from high school. And so I was like, oh, well then, like, she'll have two big brothers. And then when it's high school time, it's like, okay, now we can like both of us focus on her. The boys will be out of the house. You know, like there was some, because teenage girls, I'm an oldest. And I feel like I'm an oldest girl. And I think there's something about being the oldest of being a girl. Yeah.

That's a really, it's a really tricky line. It's either I need to be completely perfect. or I can't be perfect. So screw it. I'm going to do what I want. Right. I feel like it's usually one of those. Yeah.

And so I can, I get that. And that's why I was so terrified of having girls at all because teenage girls. Yeah. Scare me so badly. But I can see like what you're saying that like, I've got four more of these coming. Yeah. What did you, what was your process in terms of thinking about like, was it a self-compliant?

self-preservation thing? Was it a, like, family preservation thing? Was it a focusing on that one kid at the time? Like, where were you in that whole equation? With our oldest, it was extreme. Like, it wasn't, everyone kept saying, well, it'll get, it'll get better, you know, when she gets to this age, you know, or it'll get better. And so she would be, she, it was extreme. like it didn't until like this year. So, so that was a long, long, long haul.

A lot of it for me was the, like there's, there's other people in this family that also need me, you know, and I can't, we can't focus all on this because there was no, there was no fixing it. Like it was, there was, we did everything we could do to try to help behavior or to, you know, positive or negative or, you know, anything that anyone suggested, we tried.

And it, we ended up, we just ended up in therapy. I mean, there was, there was no, nothing else we could do. Like, that's where we finally ended up because it, was like we're going to lose it. Like, this is so hard. And I don't think that helped her. It helped me. And so that's what I got out of it, was that talking, I was so scared to go for so long

because I thought the therapist would say it was me. And it was not like that. So that was so helpful to, after years of struggling for so long, of like what. And I'm not saying, she didn't say like, oh, it's not you, it's your daughter. It was like, you didn't cause this. You tried everything and you're doing your best. So that was what I needed to hear.

And I wish I had gone earlier so that I could have been stronger instead of scared. you know, I just kept, but I really was, I really thought I would go in, we would go in, and somehow they would be like, you know, you caused this, this is all your fault, you know, I don't know, that's just like a fear. That's what the enemy wants you to think. And, and then, I don't know, so that was our, that's where we ended up and that's how we, that's how we move forward. I think that was like one session specifically that was horrible

was the changing point for me of like there is nothing you can do until she wants to behave differently. Like you can't make her do this and you didn't cause this. So

you know just still love her and and it felt really awful, but just saying, again, that this wasn't something that I did, and it wasn't, you know, because I didn't love her, which is what I felt a lot of times from other people, they would say that, or think that or act that way, that we didn't love her because we were mad at her or because we were frustrated. So it's, yeah, it's weird because other people get involved, then you're, other people get involved when they're not behaving well and it affects everybody around you,

you know, your own house, but also your extended family and so. Do you remember thinking before you had, maybe before you had kids at all, or even when they were little? Like, I remember seeing, you know, I grew up in church. And even if you don't grow up in church or you're not around people who believe in God or have any sort of belief system, I just remember thinking like whenever one of my friends or I would see someone, I would see a kid misbehaving, you know, that I would think the parents are doing something wrong. Before I had my own kids. Absolutely. And now I just like walk around and apologize to all those people.

I know. And that's what, you know, and then you even would tell, I mean, I was so surprised that I kept thinking that. I would tell myself, you didn't do this. But then deep down, I would think, no, it is. You know, you did do this. So that was exactly what I thought. And I thought until I had kids. And I thought as my kids were little, that I'm doing everything right. And I love God. And, you know, we're raising them to love Jesus. And I just really. thought it would be fine and go great, you know, because we had a great marriage and and we have a great marriage and, you know, I'm happy and the kids are happy, you know, the other kids are happy. Like it just didn't, nothing fit. It couldn't, I couldn't, uh, reconcile any of it. Like how, how could this be happening when all we do is everything for you, you know, in a, with healthy boundaries and, you know, it didn't make any sense. And it was really hard to, it was just, I don't know.

It was hard. And we're, I feel like we're coming out of it in the last year. And our other ones, you know, everybody's got their stuff, but it was very extreme with her. So. And I, when I was a, I, myself, was a really difficult teenager and child. So I don't even know, I don't know how to, where that fits other than,

you know, what they do doesn't shock me. And my own kids, like, I'm not, like, I can't believe you're doing that, you know, as far as what they try to get away with or something like that. But I did, think like why would you want to do those? Why do you need to do those things if, you know, mom and dad aren't fighting and we just want to spend time with you and love you and, you know, have fun with you and take you on vacation and, you know, go to all your sports and all of that.

Why would you want to not do those? You know, why would you want to rebel from love? You know, I didn't, we weren't, we weren't strict and all the, it just didn't make sense to me, but then I learned that my parents, you know, they didn't hate me either. I thought they did, but they didn't, you know, of course they didn't. So. It all seems so unreasonable. It makes no sense. And I wonder too, like I, I, I remember being a teenager and there was nothing. and I didn't like my parents either and I have thought back

multiple times especially now that I've got a daughter coming I've thought there's nothing my mom could have said to me right to make things better like there's nothing she could have said and there part of me

as a mother now is a little relieved it's kind of like what you're saying about when you went to that first therapy session and it was, you know, you left with two almost not conflicting messages, but like soul conflicting messages. Like, this is your, this is not your fault. And yet there's nothing you can do.

Yeah. It's like hopeful and crap. Yeah, I cried all like for so long about it because there's nothing you can do. Right. And my parents too, I mean, they, they did their best. And I mean, I just had. like a, I mean, it's very similar to my oldest. So just had a, like no one will tell me what to do. Right.

What to think, what to say, and definitely not how to behave because I'm going to do whatever I want. And that was, that was my life. I mean, I made it really hard for my parents as well. They didn't, you know, bring that on. I thought they did. Right. You know, until I was about 30. And all of a sudden it was like, oh, I mean, really, it was not. So a lot of people figured it out in their 20s, and I did not figure it out until I think until my teenagers were doing it.

And I was like, okay, this formula I made up in my mind of like, I'm going to be a good parent because, you know, in my teenager mind, my parents weren't. They were mean and had all these rules. And I just really thought it was their fault. And then I was like, wait, it was me. It really didn't make me feel very good. How has that, if at all, changed or affected how you parent now? I do wish that I could go back already.

I mean, she's 21. I already wish that we could do it over. I would say if we would have gone to therapy right away and just been like, what's going on? I don't, you know, I don't want to be. out at her. I don't want to be, you know, I don't want to have all this anger and let that build up and that fear build up for so long. So the doing it over isn't necessarily changing her behavior, no. Right. Or how you even parented. Right. Right. Maybe with parenting, maybe with just how I,

just trying to see her in it instead of see her behavior. And that, so that's what I think I've taken out of all of it is trying to see my my kids and her now as a person in there in that mess in the stuff that they're struggling with and stuff that they say or how they react and not react us react on their behavior of what they're doing and what they keep you know whether it's I don't know sneaking out or or lying and all that like why why are you lying? You know, looking back at, you know, what are you afraid of? What, you know, are you lying? Because you are mad at yourself because you didn't do the work and now you're caught, you know, or are you mad, you know, or just instead of just being like, you're lying to me, you know,

I'm so disappointed in you because you're a liar, you know, like instead of making it into like, you're a bad person. When they're little, they do bad things. So then you get a consequence and and to transition into like, okay, we're going to help you become a person now, an adult. And I'm not saying, maybe I didn't do it right when they were little either. Who does anything right when it comes to kids? It's just so hard. Well, and even just yesterday I was talking to my friends and I said, you know, I was watching, I've been watching all these parents like in the stores and stuff.

and I was thinking if I could have another baby now, it would be, I would just be so different. Like I wish I could just try it again because you watch these moms in the stores and I'm not judging. I'm just, I know everyone's trying their best, but just so hard on their kids. Like, you know, you're not touching the cart and, you know, and just this whole like so worried about rules. I watch them, I just think it's just not worth all that energy that you spend to get them to behave perfectly just to focus on their personality and what they want and what they need instead of my rules and my, I mean, rules are so important, of course. But a lot of times, why are, you know, why are you mad about that right now when,

and it is it really important? That makes a lot of sense because it's, it's, It's not just for them. I think it's for you, too. It's not just for the kid. I think it's for the mom. Like, if you go through the journey of being a mother, or at least you could say a parent,

but like if you're, whichever parent is home, you know, is with the kids, kind of a little bit more. Like you've got all these pieces. You've done your job. You've done all the right things.

This should look like the picture you envisioned. Right. Like the drawings that I made of my family when I was a kid. Right. make drawings of what we were going to look like. Everyone was happy all the time. All the time. No one was yelling.

Yeah. No, the first time, I didn't, I kind of expected that eventually my kids would probably tell me they hated me. I didn't think it would happen when my son was three. Like, I didn't think it would come that soon. Yeah. And the first time it happened, it was like, how dare you? Yeah.

Yeah. I was just a repulsed. Like, first of all, you are not cool enough to say that yet. Like, you don't even know what that means. You can barely go to the bathroom by yourself. Yeah, exactly. No one has to come in there and wipe you then. Right, exactly.

But in that moment, for whatever reason, that was true for him. And it was really shocking to me the first time that my kid told me that my kid told me that. The first time that, the flip side, the first time that I was like, I'm going to throw you against the wall. Like literally, like when you've got babies and they're crying. Yeah. The first time, I tell this to first time parents. And it's probably not phrased the best way, but I wish someone had told me this. And I'm like, okay, you're going to want to throw your baby.

I'm just going to tell you. Yeah. Don't be surprised that you want to. The difference is you don't. Like, good parents still want to throw their kid because they don't know what to do and it's just driving them insane. It's the bad parents who actually throw the kid. Right. Those are the ones who are going to go to present.

You can sit there when they're screaming and say, like, I, okay, I get it. I get to a point of like, oh, you know, before I thought what terrible people would ever want to do that to a baby. And then you're like, oh my gosh, because you're being tortured. No sleep. It's torture. And just the constant, I mean, you know, you're so exhausted and this baby won't stop crying. I mean, you get it. What do you think is the teenage equivalent for that?

Like, where you're like, oh, I get it now? I don't know if I've gotten there. That is a fair answer. Like one time my daughter was sneaking out and I realized it. So it was dark outside and she was waiting outside for her ride. But I couldn't see her. And so I just went outside and I just stood out in the yard. I said, I know that you're out here and you're not allowed to leave.

This isn't okay. We've told you, no. We don't want you to go where you're going. And she's like, didn't answer for a little while. And I said, I'm not going to go inside. I know that you're out here. And I couldn't see her at all. And she said, I hate you so much.

And I said, that's okay. I know. And she's like, ugh, you know, I hate you. And I was like, well, I love you. And I just don't want you to go. I don't think this is a good idea. You know, and it wasn't, it was. a, you know, a party that we didn't want her to go to. And, you know, in hindsight now,

everybody else was at the party and we probably should, you know, it wasn't a high school party even. I don't even think it was probably eighth grade. I mean, so looking back, I wish we just would have been like, you know, what's the big deal? But we thought we should control every place that they were. And if it doesn't look like a good idea, we shouldn't let her go. And I do, I do think our reaction was good and saying, I love you. And, you know, I still, I still love you even if you hate me. And I just want you to be safe. And I need you to come back inside. And she did come inside, which was good, that time. So I don't know. I mean, that was a good moment of being able to say it out loud. You know, she says, I hate you. Well, I love you. And

I hate you so much right now. and I, you know, well, okay, but just come back inside, please, so that I know that you're safe when I go to sleep tonight. That's a really encouraging example because, you know, you just said we might have approached the party differently. You know, maybe we should have let her go. But really, like the tangible choices I think we make as parents sometimes are totally secondary to the emotional reaction to them. Yeah. There's no one way, I think, to handle circumstances with your kids, right. Whether they're teenagers or kids or, you know, like littles.

But like, there kind of is one way to react to them emotionally. And it's that they need to know that you love them. Yeah. Like, ultimately, that's the goal. The point is not to raise obedient children. That's what we kind of do. Our goal is to raise kids who do the right thing. You even said this in your post.

I think that's what I thought. Yeah. I think that is totally what I thought without even realizing. That is what I thought when they were little. Like that would be the goal, obviously. Right. That they do what they're supposed to do. Do what I say.

Right. Do what I say. Everything's cool. Yeah. But it's just that's so encouraging to me because, you know, even now when my six-year-old, I mean, just a few days ago, he said, you're not my friend anymore. I hate you. And I don't even remember what this circumstance was, but I just remember feeling hurt,

but simultaneously like, that doesn't change anything for me. The fact that you hate me, which you really don't. Don't. You're sick. You don't understand hate fully. But in this moment, that's what he was feeling. that's what he was experiencing. And my immediate reaction was like, well, I don't hate you and you're still my friend.

And it made him more angry. Right. Like you said with your daughter in the yard, like there's something about being loved unconditionally. It's like, I know I feel that way. I felt that way as a kid. I feel that way as a grown up. Like if I screw up, I think deep down, we expect to be rejected, you know, like by the person we're hurting. And we kind of almost want them to be like,

I hate you too. Well, so then they could be mad at you. They can shift that blame off of their own behavior onto you. Like, well, I knew you would do that. I knew you would leave me again. You know, I knew you would reject me, you know, because you're a bad person. You know, you couldn't forgive me. And that's what they want.

I wanted that, too. I remember, I just remember, like, when I think of my own self as a teenager and young adult. Just like, why would I do that? It's so stupid. But, and even with our marriage, I mean, we, my husband and I was like, she tried so hard. And I don't mean it just our oldest. It's, they try to, or at least in our, I just don't want to be like, it's all her or it's all just teenagers. But some kids will try to put you, against each other, like you, your husband. And I remember doing it, like getting my parents to fight about me, which then would take

the focus off of me and onto they would fight with each other. And I saw it so clearly happening. And so we had to have a, like, okay, we are a team and we are not going to fight with each other over her behavior. Like we need to like always come back together and say and we do it now with our other kids who are living because she doesn't live with us anymore. So I can use that example like that seems like it was in the past. But we do it now as well.

Like because we were new parents to teenagers. So she would ask me a question in the kitchen and I would say no. And then she would go up. to our bedroom when he would get home from work when it was just him and then ask him the same question in a different way to get a yes. And then she would come down and I would say, I said no, well, dad said yes. And then I would be mad at him. Right. And so we finally had to say, you know, I'll talk to your dad. Every answer was I'll talk to your dad. And then he would say, I'll talk to your mom. And so that it was a joint thing because everybody wants

to be the one that says yes. I mean, it felt good for him to be able to say yes to her instead of always saying, always having to say no. And so even now, then with our oldest now, he's a boy. So it's switched in our roles. And I, you know, I'm the yes. Like he knows he'll get a yes for me. So he comes to me first.

And because he knows his dad will say no. It's just a personality switch that they have, you know, as opposed to my daughter and I had like we, you know, we chose to, I don't know, it's interesting. It'll be interesting to watch and see if it continues with the next cycle of boy versus girl. I mean, everybody's, their personalities are so different, but it is interesting of how that, we have noticed that switch of like my oldest and I had a hard time. and now the oldest boy and him have a hard time getting along. That is, I've never heard anyone say that before. That's so real and practical. I think we probably all remember as kids asking one parent,

if they say no, you just ask the other one. Like it's kind of, yeah, and you just know like, oh, well, that question didn't work that way. Let's try it this way. And it's going to be fine. But I never really thought about it. Like you said, like that your answer, you made your answer not yet. or no, it was, let me talk to your dad first.

Yeah. That's so good. That's so good because it's showing your kids that you and your husband are a team and that that's going to be one of the most important things in making the decision. It was because it was kind of tearing us apart. And I was like, okay, we're so, we're already. so tired from having all these children, but then also this extra emotional new phase of parenting that I can't at the end of the day, then be mad at you also, like for no reason, you know,

like because then if I would say, well, I said no to that because of this and this and this, and then he would say, oh, yeah, I didn't think about that. You know, it was never like, you know, I didn't say no to be mean. know because of her behavior or because of what had happened before you came home or because of, you know, there's always all these reasons. This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar rally.

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You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. So it was just like realizing, like we felt like we were being attacked, our marriage itself was being intact. And like I said, I could remember looking back at my own behavior and thinking, well, if they fight, then I can leave. And I mean, that's kind of gross. I hate that I, you know, remember that. But I do remember, like, my whole goal was, I got to get out of here.

How can I get out of here? I'll change a subject. I'll say something terrible. I'll be really mean and then I can leave, you know. So, ugh. And, you know, it's there, and there's such a, if there's anybody listening who is, you know, it's like where you were in terms of that first transition into having a teenager, you know, their oldest is kind of making that move.

And maybe they still have young ones. You know, I think about how we're already as parents and, and, you know, whichever one is home, especially, like, there's such an emotional deficit for so long. You know, like, you're so physically tired. But I think if the day, if I'm already physically tired and then I just don't have a lot of emotional margin. And my kid can do, can say the same thing on a day that I have no margin and a day that I do. And the day that I don't have margin, it's like you're the worst kid in the world. Get out of my face.

I can't handle this anymore. And so I can imagine that when you're already on like you basically have a sleep, you know, like a 10 year sleep deficit, if not more than that. And then you're still dealing with like little people who don't quite know how to manage their own emotion and manage even their own physical choices. and like, no, you can't jump off the deck. That's like you're going to break a bone. Like, please don't do it.

You know, like you're just trying to keep them from killing themselves. And then you have to move into a completely different emotional space, I would think, of like seeing, not like seeing them. It can be kind of the same thing where it's like, please don't go there. It's a different kind of like, please just don't hurt yourself. but it's a different kind of hurt. It's like, please don't hurt yourself emotionally. Please don't hurt yourself by making a choice that you don't see the consequences of right now. But you can't just say, get off the deck, don't jump.

Yeah. Like you have to see them like you were saying as a person. It's so much harder emotionally. Oh my word. Like I just can't even imagine how exhausting that is. It's all in your heart. You know, I mean, the rest, the whole first 10 years is. that physical exhaustion where you're not you're not sleeping you're not um really yourself almost but

because you're trying to keep them alive and survive and then that whole second decade is it's all emotional and they're because they're hormonal and they're you know pushing every limit maybe i mean or then i have some who aren't you know aren't rebellious at all but they're very emotional like with people and like their feelings get hurt so deeply and so they come home and they are you know like had the worst day because someone was mean and like all those emotions of like it's going to be okay and I don't know if it is you know and just that whole like they're not rebellious against you but just so sad or so you know this is the end of the world like it'll never get better. And like, no, it'll be fine like tomorrow. But, you know, to spend an hour talking about it,

you know, of them saying, why would she do that? Why, you know, why would she say those things about me? Just kind of that. So that's even, it's still emotions. It's still emotional. So, and I know not everybody has five kids and two kids can also be exhausted. I mean, you, you're tired from what you have. So if you have two kids or you have five kids, you're still going to be. Right. Whatever your normal is. Yeah. That's just your equilibrium. And yeah. So it's not, I mean, I can't imagine. I mean, I would think if I had five kids versus two, I feel like I'd be more tired. But like you don't know that until you have five. It's your justice, you know, you're, yeah, it's just as valid to be tired with two as it is with five. There's absolutely. I don't want anyone to, I feel that way with, um, anybody who, like I remember thinking when I had my second and I thought, oh my word, I complained so much when I had one kid. Like, that was a piece of cake. But when you have one kid, it is zero percent a piece of cake. Like it doesn't, like, yeah. And I think that's, that's a, that's a freedom that I want all parents to feel is that however

you're feeling, it is valid. Yeah, it's real. It's totally real. And two or five kids. Just like in the same way that whatever your kids are feeling, even if it, you're like, no, it's fine. Like, it's kind of in your head. You're like, really? really we're do we really have to talk about this yeah again but for them it's just as real yeah that i think that's one of the things that scares me honestly the most is um i don't have a lot of um solidarity for anyone listening who doesn't have a lot of natural mercy i don't have a lot of mercy um in a there was a test you know you take those um like personality tests yeah yeah grow up in um you know, like in a church environment, you might take like a spiritual gifts test or whatever.

And on a scale of one to a hundred, on mercy, I got a two. So you're legit. I'm legit. No mercy. No, granted, I did take that a long time ago before I had kids. But I don't think, I mean, I might still be single digits. It's just not how I'm wired. And I've had to kind of be okay with that, you know, like accept that.

that like, okay, this is a part of my parenting and how I move in the world that is different than other people. And that doesn't mean it's better or worse. Right. Just everybody's got their own things that they're good or not so good at. But that is the thing that makes me the most scared about having teenagers and when the when the exhaustion shifts from physical to emotional exhaustion. Because I'm already like, just put, like, like, like, um, like, like, um, like, like,

For example, I worked with high school kids as a volunteer for years, over 10 years. And I remember we were on a trip, and one of the other volunteers, she was a mom, and she had a teenage daughter on the trip. And she said to me, and I think I was like 23. No children knew everything. You know, I knew everything about parenting and had never. I had babysat for so long. I know so many things.

So this mom who had never been on one of these trips before, she said to me, she pointed at another teenage girl and she said, I think her shorts are too short. And I said, yeah, I think you're right. Like we were doing work. This chick was going to get up on a ladder. You know, like, she probably needs to cover herself a little more. And I said, yeah, I think you're right. And the woman said, what do I do?

And I'm like, go tell her to change your shorts. Like, I don't understand. what you're asking. And she said, well, I can't do that. And I just, I remember internally rolling my eyes. Like, you have a teenage daughter. Like seriously, just go tell her to put more clothes on. And that was kind of my, how I saw teenage girls was every conversation should take

about 30 seconds and just be like, put more clothes on and stop crying. Everything's fine. Like, that was sort of my solution. Suck it up. suck it up totally just suck it up like it's not a big deal and now you know i just see one how stupid that is and i just want to apologize to that mom every time i see her for being such a jerk um but also it's that is so dismissive of your kid if they're having trouble with something and you just like give them a pat answer of like it's fine don't worry about it that's the

worst that's the worst thing and i'm just so afraid of the Like you were saying, like, we're going to talk about this for an hour. Or she's just going to need to process it. Yeah. With me listening for an hour. And that scares me so badly. Scared me so badly. Well, but she'll, I mean, if you're, I would say that your kids figure out what, what you will do.

like they don't they don't go and sit and talk with their dad and about emotional things you know like because he'll be like oh that's a bummer and then you know like move on you know or be like oh dumb and roll his eyes and then like and that's about all they'll get so they'll come to me to talk it out you know so I think maybe for you they'll go to your husband to say something you know or just you know, or somebody else. And it doesn't have to be you for everything. And that's the other thing. I'm trying to be like, you know, it's okay for them to have other adults in their life that are important to them and to not, you know, not be jealous of that.

And even if I am jealous of that to have it be a, you know, I wish it was me that you were talking to, but I'm so glad you're talking to someone, you know, and just be happy. that they have anybody that, you know, they feel close to that they want to talk to or spend time with or get, you know, get something positive from an adult, a healthy adult. That's a great perspective. And it's okay that it's not me. I wish it was me. You know, I want it to be me all the time, but that's not practical with, you know, you just want them to get what they need from someone, you know, healthy adult. That's really good. I don't know that I've ever, you know, there's just so many.

things. There's so many words said about being a parent of little people. There just aren't a lot of words about parenting, big ones, and probably because they're just so different. You know, their needs when their babies are pretty finite. But when they start to have unique personalities, there's just no way, like you said, there's no formula. And so it kind of, I am, I'm married to a counselor. I'm married to a middle school counselor. So they're going to talk to them. Of course. they are. That's what I was thinking. I was like, there's no way that you're both like that. No, no. He'll listen forever. And it's like, it's like a superpower. I don't understand how he does it. Yeah. And that's probably how my husband thinks, you know, when we're still talking about,

you know, whatever, girls or. And that's what you were saying like before about the team thing. And even for single parents, like what you just said, you don't. don't have to be the only one. And you don't have to be jealous of someone else who, that's so good. That's just so good. Because I think about when I was a teenager, of course there were other adults who were speaking truth into my life that maybe I wasn't listening at the time, but it still resonated and it still mattered deep down somehow.

So, yeah, that's really good. For me, like I said, I was so, I just did not want anything from my parents. So I found that other places. So I can look back on that and realize how important that was for me. I mean, to make any good decisions because I was refusing anything from my own family. So I had to have, you know, thank goodness there were other adults that were willing to spend time with me as well. You know, my parents, I think would have if I would have let them. Sure.

I wouldn't let them. So I know how important those other adults were to me that I'm like, okay, if that's what, you know, if you need to talk to that mom, okay. And if the teenage years are really just preparation of like, okay, you're going to be a grown up in the world by yourself. Yeah. That's a skill that they're going to need to develop in a process. They're going to need to trust anyway. You know, I don't go to my mom for everything now. Like that's not how life works.

You find other people who are going to be on your team. Right. And so it makes sense to kind of start that process or to accept as a parent to accept that process when they're teenagers. I'm like, no, that's good. They're just building their team. Right. And that's, yeah, that's perfect. That's good.

Building their team. So, oh my word. I'm going to, I could talk to you about this stuff for so long. And I know that people listening are like taking notes and crying and hopefully feeling encouraged. Like you said in the very beginning, you hold simultaneously the truth that you didn't do anything wrong. You could do everything quote unquote right. And it still doesn't go the way you think. And that is really freeing in one sense.

And then in the other sense that there's nothing you can do. Like there's nothing you can do. To hold those two things equally takes a lot of trust, I think. Absolutely. But it's so encouraging that it just gives us the freedom to be, you know, it's the whole point of this podcast of the lazy genius idea of like stop trying to be a genius about controlling your kids and setting up this perfect puzzle because that's not what is really going to that's not going to give you the result that you think you want and even if even if things do look

on the surface like they should there's going to be somewhere where that kid is going to have to leave that picture and figure things out for themselves like it's going to happen it's just going to look different for everybody. And so just to kind of let that stuff go, like you said, if you could do it over again, you'd just be easier on yourself. You'd be more relaxed. It'd be like, no, let's, you know, let's all just chill out about that stuff. Let's focus on making sure that this kid feels seen. Yeah. Well, and even, like I said, like maybe we should to let her go to the party, like that second guessing, that's not, that's not right either. Like as soon as I said, I'm like, that's not right because I knew in that moment of why I didn't

want her to go to that. And so I can second guess it now because we're not in the heat of the moment. So I know that that was a clear, good choice. Like, and I wasn't being ridiculous. And that's because if you, if you do look back, then you could just say like, oh, I was such a, I was so dumb. I did everything wrong. So it wasn't that. And so, I mean, I don't know why I even said that, but I just don't want it to be like, well, of course, I could have done it all differently. But if I did do it over, if I could do it over, I would try to be focusing on her. Like, why do you feel this way? Why are you so emotional? Why are you so, you know, angry? Like, instead of just being like, stop being so angry.

You're making me angry. Stop it. Like, it was just like, feel different. That's really how I felt. Like, you're, you know, I don't like this person that you are right now. You should feel different and be different. Be who you used to be. And then just like, that was it.

And you're not doing it. So I'm mad at you. And so instead of being like, why are you doing? Like really, because we were just in survival mode. So I feel now that with the other kids, I can be able to look like I can be mad, but then I can be like, wait a minute. Why? You know, let's backtrack of why possibly this is happening.

And I didn't think to do that with my oldest. And it makes me sad. But I don't know that it would have changed anything. And my friends say that it would not have. You have good friends. Yes, I have to trust them with that. I mean, so I'm sure some things would be. But I just, that's what I would do again.

And what I want to continue to do is to see them as, you know, as a person. And how can I, how can I love them best? What does this person need to feel loved and to feel safe? and to feel wanted and that you want to be with them, that you want to get to know more about them. And so I do feel like, you know, those things maybe were not shown to our oldest in that heat of the moment stuff

because we didn't know. We just thought, well, oh my gosh, this is all out of control. We don't have any control anymore. and, you know, she's behaving so badly and people are going to find out and, you know, just that whole, and now I don't care. Like, everybody can find out because there's nothing to hide, you know, I think it felt like it was something to hide at the time because she was our oldest and we, you know, felt like we don't want anybody to know that she's, you know, having trouble because then it will look bad for us. you know, they'll say, well, you know, they must be bad parents, like what we were saying earlier. So now our focus, too, I mean, and therapy was a big help in that.

And just like, and I don't even think she told us that, but just seeing there wasn't anything we could do. So what are we going to do now? We're just going to love her and try to help her, you know, feel all those things. And, you know, because we want all of our kids to know Jesus. and to know that Jesus loves them and that God, you know, yes, I love them, but really it's Jesus loves you. You know, God is on your side. You know, God loves you more than I love you and I love you a lot, you know. And so we really just want them to be pointed back to God and us being mad all the time and setting all these rules was not portraying that.

And even just recently of, you know, in the last year of us having a fight together, like the three of us, my oldest, and us, me saying out of my mouth, you're such a mess. And then the look on her face and then having to go back and be like, okay, you're not a mess. You're an adult that's learning. And I'm sorry. I'm so sorry I said that. so still learning you know and just saying we're all a mess I'm a mess so I'm sorry that I said that about you I'm just as big of a mess as you are there's no time where I'm going to be perfect and you are not perfect so I'm sorry that I made you feel bad and you know I just want you to feel loved

and I want you know you to make choices that are you know showing that you that you love yourself. And so that's, you know, when I said you're a mess, it's that I feel like maybe you don't love yourself very well. And that's why you're making these choices. So we're still working through it and, you know, have a lot more to learn and a lot more to go many, many years left of just the physical parenting part. But then I don't even know what happens after, you know, when they're adults, who knows what happens then. That's a really valuable thing that is true of parenting across the board is being willing to apologize.

It didn't admit that you screwed up. And I think it's not easy. Oh, it's so not easy. But I just think of the number of times. Um, you know, not that I kept track as a kid of like, this is when my parents screwed up. But, um, but when, but when there was a time of, of apology and that they asked forgiveness for something they did. Um, it was, it was really, it changed things. It might not have changed how I responded to them or my behavior in the moment. Um, but it made an impact. And, you know,

like you said that you want how can I make how can I make this person feel loved how can I make them feel safe how can I make them feel wanted and you can do those things and it might not change how they behave but it's making an impact yeah and part of that is being willing to go back when you say something hurtful or stupid or wrong yeah um the first time I apologize to one of my kids um And even like when I yell at that, like I get upset with them when they yell at me, but don't get upset with myself when I yell at them. You know, it's like you expect different things. And I remember the first time that I apologized to my son.

And I just said, I'm really sorry. I yelled at you like that. I shouldn't have done that. We could have talked about that with more loving voices. Maybe the words were okay, but the voice wasn't okay. And I'm sorry. And his entire demeanor shifted immediately. I mean, he's tiny.

Yeah. So he feels safe to shift immediately, whereas teenagers probably don't as much. But the first time that happened, I thought, oh, wow, this is, this is real life. Like, I'm going to screw up so many times. But there's great, there's great power in healing and being willing to say you're sorry and say you were wrong as a parent. And so I just, I love that, you know, you said that you're still learning. But I love that that's happening when your kid is like a grownup.

That still happens. Yes. I mean, it just, it still happens. So. Because you're still human and you still react. You know, I mean, that was what I felt in that moment of like, you know, I just was so mad. and, you know, immediately was like, oh, I mean, I didn't say it right away. It took me like an hour to come back and be like, okay, that was totally wrong.

And I'm treating me like a baby and you are an adult, you know, you are an adult now. And, you know, but even a teenager, like to insult them and say, you know, you're such a mess or you're, you know, you're so lazy or you're so whatever the word is. that you insult them with. I mean, you don't fight with adults that way. Right. You don't name call. And so you can't do that with kids either. So, and it may not be a mean insult, but saying lazy or saying, I don't know, I don't know.

We are learning. It is a constant just figuring out what we're doing. I hope this was encouraging to anyone. Oh my goodness. I can't even tell you. There's no doubt in my mind. There's no doubt in my mind that it is because so often we do want a formula. But when you realize that that's not an option.

To know that there's still light. You can still move and there's still light in that as you, as you you might not seize you know really far ahead of you but um but just to trust that like it's going to be okay because ultimately you love your kid yeah you know like that's really what it comes down to as long as you love your kid and make that the priority it is still day to day but it's it's going to be okay like i feel like it's going to be okay apparently we have all these things that we thought our kids were going to turn out to be, you know, because you don't say it out loud, but apparently, yeah, I had a lot of things that I assumed that my kids would do and be

for me and as a person, like, on the outside what it would look like. Right. And those things were not fitting in with my picture of what, you know, having a teenage daughter would look like. I thought we would be close and go shopping and be friends because I was looking for. forward to that and all the things that I wasn't with my mom and then none of those things happened and it was worse than you know what I had had with my mom and so yeah and even still like I you know I think they should be doing certain things and you have to let all that go and let them be who they want to be, you know, whatever it looks like. And that is, that's hard. It's because, and it's not even on, it's hard, but it's not once you let it go, but it is, I didn't know we had that. That was another

thing. I'm like, I didn't realize I had this dream of that at all. It was just so ingrained of what our family was going to look like. So kind of letting that go and letting it just be what it is. and be happy about it instead of being sad about it. I don't know. That's a really good thing. It's hard, but it's not as hard when you let it go. Once you release it,

it's like, oh, that wasn't so bad. I'm just changing a, you don't have to know how it's going to look. I thought. But that's so fun, Meg, when you know how it's going to look. Right. Right.

And everyone will just fall into place. I mean, you know, like every time we've done like family pictures, you know, like, you know what it's like to do family pictures. Oh, it's the worst. It's miserable. Miserable. And everyone looks great and the family looks so happy, you know. So that's what I mean.

Like it's just kind of this, I thought it was going to look like how the family pictures turn out. But it's the whole, all that getting into the family pictures. of the stress and the fighting and the crying. And it does look like that in the end. You know, you still are happy in the end. You just have to let the ridiculous part go of your expectations for perfect kids that are going to, you know, do everything to make you happy. They want to make themselves happy, you know?

And so how can I help them in their life make themselves happy? You know, I don't, that sounds cheesy, but. It doesn't. It sounds great is what it sounds. You've said so many great things. And we totally don't feel like, wow, we're great at this at all. And I think that's what makes you good at it. The minute anyone thinks that they're so good at something,

especially something as varied and unpredictable as relationships, that's when you aren't. Like, I feel like we just have to, it's a different kind of letting go. Like you said, you just have to let go of the fact that like, oh, I'm so good at this parenting gig. Yeah. I mean. Let's see.

That's what I think I really did think that with my little kids. So I'm not like trying to scare anyone that thinks that. Sure. I think it was, you know, it knocked me down a lot. The transition I would think would be wougher. Yeah. And when I look back at my blog, you know, because I've been blogging for nine years. So, you know, I really did just think I was so good at that.

this and and I and I and I'm maybe I was I don't know you know with that I mean however good you can be at that age but I certainly did I wasn't prepared for what was to come and um so we are learning now and you know God has really um provided a lot of support and uh just peace about it now you know it was I feel so much better than I did five years ago or two years ago. So I don't know. We're trying. I say, yeah, I say that a lot. I don't know.

We're trying and still in progress. And we've still got nine more years of kids. So we'll talk in nine years. Right, we'll talk in nine years. We'll check in in nine years. Oh, my goodness. Well, okay, so just real, we can do this really quickly. Sure.

But just to kind of transition out, we can kind of shift it into about you and like maybe a little lighter note. But can you tell me and us listening, what is something in no particular order? What is something you love right now? What is something you hate right now? And what is something you need right now? Let's see. I am loving. stupid chickens right now.

Oh, that's where you have chickens. There we have eight chickens and they're all laying eggs and we have so many eggs like eggs forever. Like we have like four things of 18 eggs in our fridge right now and then we'll have another you know, next two days and next two days. But I just really love those stupid chickens. I love going out and seeing them and getting the eggs and all that. So I'm really into that.

I wish they liked me more. They don't like me at all. They run and run and run, but I don't know. So I love my chicken. That's awesome. And part of that is that it's spring. Like all of a sudden in this last week, it's been really nice weather and the grass is green and going outside. I mean, I didn't love them a month ago when it was, you know, an ice storm.

Right. I love them now. So it's part is spring and all of that together with the chickens. I what am I hating commercials on all the basketball games? We were watching all those basketball games and there's like commercials constantly. I will say the commercial I'm loving is that it's a nationwide commercial where it's like, no, I can't. I'm folding the laundry.

Have you seen that one? Oh, they don't want to call the insurance company and so they do all the terrible things. And they like empty the vacuum cleaner bag in the living. room, which is like, can you even imagine doing that, opening your vacuum bag and dumping it? It kind of makes me want to cry. Yeah. And then they're like, you know, I'm looking for my keys and he just throws them over in the neighbor's yard. And so every time that commercial comes on, we stop.

And I mean, we've seen it 25 times, though, so I'm hating that part of it. Of course. Just the same one. And those direct TV commercials. So again, hating commercials, but the direct TV where they're the settlers. Oh, the settlers are great. Oh, funny. That's a great campaign.

Every time those come on, I'm like, oh, such good marketing because those are hysterical. I'm glad you have at least a little light in the hating of the commercial. Because I'm with you. It's like, really? I'm so tired of TV timeouts. Can we just? Well, and even we went to the games last week, this weekend. And I was like, why is this timeout so long?

My husband's like, it's a TV timeout. I'm like, well, it's not even fair to either team. So many breaks. Long breaks. Oh, it's too good. Okay, so hating commercials, especially during basketball games. What about need? Need?

I need to lose some weight. Because my summer clothes are a bit tight. My spring clothes, yeah, that's not a good answer, but that pops in my mind. Like, I need to stop eating junk food. I love your, um, I'm not. noticed the last couple of Instagram photos with you with like different foods

like a green smote you're like this is not a donut like the caption is this is also not a donut yes but yeah my green beer it was two green drinks in one one day or whatever and they were not donuts yeah yeah so that's on my mind and when you're kind of in that mode of trying to eat better and you know

I mean you should always be in that mode but I definitely go in and out of it. And it's just kind of all-consuming. And so I'm back in that mode again. Because you realize, like, spring is here. And so summer's coming. And I have clothes I want to wear that I got a little puffy for this winter. That's the thing.

I have such a love-hate relationship with, not love-hate, but, like, normal, realistic. And, you know, with losing weight. Because it feels like, for sure, so because for so long, the thought of like, well, you need to lose weight, you need to be smaller. It was a value thing.

You know, it was like you need to do that in order to be valuable. Right. And I'm starting to realize that that is obviously so not true and a terrible way to think.

But I also don't have the money to keep buying new clothes. Right. That fit me every season. And I don't feel good. I don't feel good, you know, like physically, when you can't walk up your stairs

without being like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired. You know, you feel good when you're in shape or when you're trying to be in shape or becoming in shape or eating well. Even if you're not even exercising that you're eating well, your body just feels good. But cake. Cake.

You know? Cake. I'm like stupid. Shannon will say, my friend, like, well, please tell me you ate something good, you know, instead of like when I'm trying to eat really well and I'm like I just had I just did badly shit and I'm like no it was Oreos like Oreos as a terrible thing to eat you know like you should at least be having something if you're going to finally eat junk it should be something special make it count

fancy cake I'm like no it was double stuff Oreos which are horrible right like that's that's gross so but they're good Mine are like Little Debbie oatmeal cream pies. Those are bad. I could like pound a box of those in no time. And then I'm like, that was not worth it. Not worth it. It was so worth it when I was eating it. It's always so worth it when you're eating it.

And then after I'm like, why do I feel like I'm going to die? Oh, because I just ate four little Debbie oatmeal cookies. That's why. I need some self-control. That's what I need. I remember one last thing. This is a nice thing to close on. When you posted a, I don't know if it was a book or a, there was just something that you posted.

You took a picture of it. It was like how to enjoy half a cookie or how to be okay with half a cookie. And I was like, I don't think that's real. That book. I know I was so surprised. But then if you saw, there were several comments. on that post of like, you know, this is a real problem and this is a struggle for people. And like, this is a really good book.

And I was like, oh, sorry. Because I was like, what the heck, who writes a book called a Joy? Like, who eats half a cookie? Who eats half a cookie? Even if you're struggling with weight and weight loss, like, why would you eat half a cookie? You either eat a cookie or you don't. Like you're going to have the cookie or you're not. Why would you eat half of one?

That's my mentality. It doesn't mean it's right. But that's how I thought about it. So I'm looking at it like, why would you ever break a cookie in half and only eat half of it? Unless it's like this big of a cookie. Right. It's a size of your face. 12 inch.

Right. Or cookie. Okay. That you could break into a half to eat. So that. But yes, I saw that book. I'm like, this is, I can't even believe this is a really. real book and thinking it was a joke and it was not people were there's a you should go back and

look at those calls i might have to there were several several of like you know this is really a struggle and this is you know kind of that i was making fun of people and i certainly wasn't that wasn't what i in my mind i just love cookies that was really what i was thinking like you either eat it or you don't it seems insulting to the cookie to break it in half yeah no i can get that i'm going to have to go look at the Amazon reviews of that book. It's the joy of half a cookie, right? Isn't that the name of the book or something? Yeah.

Something like that. Yeah. Oh, that's just too funny. Well, I am just so thankful that you took the time. And this was so fun. It's so easy to talk to you. And I know I just, I'm going to link to, I'm going to link to the post that you wrote about about teenagers because I just, I just,

I want everybody to read it like daily because it's just so, because you don't give any answers. And that's really the whole thing is there aren't any answers. And so that we can just sort of come alongside each other and be like, I know this is hard and that there aren't any answers. But it's, that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. You know, it's just, it's not the reality. All of my friends, we all parent so differently. Yeah. I mean, it is not.

And those are my close friends. I mean, none of us do it the same. It is so interesting. And we love that about each other. We're always, you know, like, that's so amazing that you think that. You know, I would never think to do that. Even still, all these years later, we don't think about the same things as our, as moms. And so we're all doing it differently, but we're all just doing our best, you know.

Right. Well, thank you. Yeah. You're welcome. Thanks for asking me. And I can't wait. So I have a list that I made a couple of months ago, 101 things to do in a thousand and one days. I don't like resolutions. I'm not a resolution person, but I like to have fun goals to look forward to. One of my things is to come to the craft house. Oh, yeah. We need to make that happen.

What are these days? I'm going to come to the craft house because it's just. I know. It's like, this is, this is it. This is, I said that after the last one. I said that basically like a minute after the last one was born. I'm like, yeah. I hope you're good with two because I'm not doing this again. Well, you know, in like five minutes, I'm going to have a third one and it's cool. And she's going to be a spunky little Annie and we're super excited about it. But that's on my, that's on my list of like, I'm going to come to the craft house and I can't wait. So, okay, well, Meg, thank you for doing this. This has been so great. And I look forward to seeing you on Instagram. And I'm going to put your, like I said, the link to the pose, but also, I mean, I figure, if you're listening and you don't follow Meg's Instagram, you need to do it immediately. Because it's like, it's the, it's super real. You're not hiding anything.

But it is such a happy account. I just love your feed. It's like you do colors like a wizard and it's so, it's just so fun. Like your last one was like your shopping card at Michaels and it made me so happy. Like all the color in your shopping cart. It's just so fun. So I'm going to put a link to that because you guys need to go follow. You'll never get a, you know how there are feeds that you follow and sometimes you roll your eyes like, really?

You're going to post that? Oh, I'm sure people roll their eyes at some time. I'm not sure. I've never, I'm just going to say this. I have, remember, mercy, two points. Right, right. I'm such a cynical person. I've never once rolled my eyes at one of your photos.

Love your feet. That's a compliment then. Yeah, it really is. Absolutely. Because I'm, I need not being so much of a jerk. I'm such a terrible person. I'm not a terrible person. I'm not going to do that. That's what I tell myself sometimes.

Just don't have mercy. It's just different. It's cool. But your feet is so great. So I can't wait for people to experience it if they haven't yet. But, well, thank you so much for doing this. and we will talk in nine years. Thanks guys for listening.

Please follow Meg on Instagram. You will not regret it. You can find her at Meg Durkson. That's D-U-E-R-K-S-E-N. And it will be one of the happiest additions to your Instagram feed. We'll be back next week with Mary Carver, talking about how hard it is to be a person. She makes me laugh at Mary, and she's going to make you laugh too.

Thanks so much for listening to The Lazy Genius Podcast. If you haven't subscribed already, I would so love it if you would so you don't miss any episodes. And if you are willing to leave us a review on iTunes, that is such an amazing gift. You have no idea. Thank you so much for listening and for being part of the Lazy Genius Collective. We'll see you next week. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that.

More dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life? because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves.

Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.