The Lazy Genius Podcast - #309 - The Friendship Episode, Part Two with Laura Tremaine

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

Let's continue the conversation with friendship expert, Laura Tremaine! In this episode, she shares the rest of her list of 10 ways to start small in friendship, and there are so many things I wrote down like I was highlighting the conversation. You will get so much encouragement out of this episode that I think will translate to your actual life. And lucky for you, her book, The Life Council, does that in spades. Helpful Companion Links Get Laura’s book The Life Council Find Laura on Instagram Listen to part one of this conversation here David Gate's Instagram account meetup.com Love Languages by Gary Chapman This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi there, you are listening to the Lazy Genius Podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi, and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is episode 309, 10 ways to start small in friendship, part two. Today is a continuation of my conversation with Laura Tremaine, the author of the newly released The Life Council, 10 friends every woman needs. Last week we talked about some broader friendship philosophies, why we all keep waiting on a friendship It fairy. And we got to the first two, the first two ways to start small on our list of 10. We just really like to talk, you guys. So today is the rest of Laura's fabulous list. And there are so many things in this conversation that will make you feel empowered. Even today, as you have different eyes for the relationships around you. I wrote down so many lines that Laura said, like I was like highlighting a conversation.

And I think the same will be true of you. So thank you for being here. and here is the rest of my conversation with Laura Tremaine. Okay, number three. Number three. For ways to start small in friendship is go first. Yep. This definitely ties into number two, which was compliments our key.

It's just to be the first person to say something. Again, I wrote a whole book about this. My first book was called Share Your Stuff. I'll go first. Everyone else has to take a turn at going first. And this can be as small or as big as you wanted. It can be as small offering a compliment being the first person to say, hey, I noticed you. I see you today. Or it can be the first person to text. And listen, my daughter Lucy just started a new middle school this year. And so there's a whole new group of people, parents, mom friends. And I did that awkward thing where I just was the first person to text and be like, hi, we met at assembly to. day like I just wanted to connect and whatever it's so awkward yep but it's fine we're grownups you can do it you can handle a little awkward yeah you can handle it what's the worst thing that

happens they don't reciprocate but they're not going to like shove you down into a hole i can't believe you texted me first yeah we make it so dramatic don't we yeah also go first goes back to what you were talking about earlier of you know we wait for some else to give us permission or start the thing. And sometimes that has to be you. I know that there are like, most of us do not always want to be the one that plans the friends dinner out that, you know, plans the party or we don't always want to have to be the one that goes first. And I, I have compassion for friends who feel like that that's a real put upon that they're always the one going first, no one else goes first. I just want to encourage you to try it, whether you do it all the

time or you're not great at it, go first. And if you are the one that does it all the time, lean into that this is a strength. Your friend group sees this leadership in you and they love it. Yeah. It's like don't withhold it because you have your own narrative about it. Like, don't do that. That's now, of course, I always like hear the chorus of someone being like, well, that's not my experience. Absolutely. There's nothing that we are going to say here that is going to be universally appropriate for every single person's experience. Like it's, it's just the way it is because people are dynamic. However, I think for most people who feel like, I'm always the one who initiates. I'm always the one who plans. I'm always, you can either say to the friend or the friend

group that that is hard for you, that that is a challenge for you, even the next time that it's like time to do the thing and you're always the one that initiates the thing. You can text the friend or friend group and be like, hey, I know I usually head this up. I don't have the energy right now. Can someone else do it? Like, just say what you need, but you're absolutely right. Don't see your comfort in going first as something that is, yeah, put upon you. It's actually a gift to people who are terrified or who have life stages where they just don't have the energy to do that or whatever the case may be. So yes, it's not, we can see that as a strength. You're absolutely right. It's a strength. And for those who don't naturally go first, I really want you to try it. And again,

it can be very small. Going first can also just be walking up to someone and being the first to say hello, being the first to offer a hand, whatever go first, like whatever that opportunity presents itself. Like, just do it. Raise your hand in the, you know, book club meeting, whatever it is to be the first one to speak or offer an opinion. The first person to comment. The first person to comment on someone's Facebook post, like go first. That is a version of showing up that pays dividends always, always, always in relationship. And people are grateful for it. Love it.

I just mentioned book club. And that goes to number four, which this is actually the thing that saved my life back in the day when I was lonely. I had babies. I had no energy to like come up with something creative to do. do with a friend. I just could not do that on the regular. So number four is join something that already meets regularly. So I think this is so important for so many different types of personalities, even if you're an extrovert, even if you're a go, goer, or like me, if you're an introvert and sometimes need a little extra motivation. One of the biggest obstacles to

friendship in like this modern era where we have so many reasons to stay home. There are so many reasons to stay home. We have beautiful digital distractions. You know, there's all kinds of reasons to not go to something or not plan something. But if you join something that already meets regularly, that takes like 90% of the work out of it of figuring out what you're going to do, what time you're going to meet. Do we need to make reservations? do we need to plan?

That is exhausting. It's fun every once in a while to do that. But if you join any kind of club, group, workout, hobby that already meets regularly. You know, church community, it doesn't matter what the meeting is that you're interested in. If they meet once a week, once a month, whatever it is, again, that takes a huge, like, barrier to plans,

to making plans with someone. It just takes that away. you're going to show up. The other people are going to show up. There's going to be people there to talk to and connect with. And hopefully, because whatever type of meeting you're at, you have that thing in common. And you're not in charge, which I think we feel, again, like we're starting over instead of starting where you are. Start where someone already is. Let them be like even running the conversation or the hobby or like whatever. Like you could just go and exist along other people who are existing. You can just like be a person. and you don't have to be in charge. It was great. Now, I live in a big city, and so there's a lot

of opportunity here. Meetup.com has every club you could ever imagine in your whole entire life. There are Facebook groups dedicated to most towns. Even my small town that I grew up in has like a Facebook group or a Facebook page that regularly lists art classes or hiking club or whatever it is. No matter how small or larger community is, there is opportunity. something is meeting regularly and you can join it. It's the same thing as the compliment where it's not that you go into every single one of these small choices, interactions, like gripping to the hope that this person is going to give the eulogy at your funeral.

You know, like cool it, y'all. Just it's fine. If you go to the class, if you go to the club. if you go to the club, if you go to the thing, and you maybe don't connect with anybody beyond that, you have still gone. You have still worked the muscle. You have still realized that you did not burst into flames.

Like, the more you do it, the easier it becomes and the more exposure you have to potential friends that you might carry beyond that thing. Yeah, it's just companionship. Like I also write in the book, we are not dating for friendship marriage. Like this is not, we're not trying to find the one. We're not trying to find our bestie forever, like you said.

This is just companionship. Even the example you gave a minute ago about saying something quickly to two women in the bookstore, I bet you when you left the bookstore, you felt fulfilled in a little way. Oh, totally. Your cup had been filled in a 30-second interaction with another human out in the world. you both, you know, you all like books. You connected for like a second and you're just like, oh, readers are the best. And then you leave. And then you leave. Right. That's it. You don't have to exchange numbers. If you're going to something that meets regularly and you don't ever exchange

numbers with the person who's on the Peloton bike next to you. But she's always there. You're companions. Right. Right. Sometimes that's enough in your stage of life. Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll be right back. electric without sacrificing fun? That's the Volkswagen ID4. All-electric and thoughtfully designed to elevate your modern lifestyle. The Volkswagen ID4 is fun to drive with instant acceleration that makes city streets feel like open roads. Plus a refined interior with innovative technology always at your fingertips.

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It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art. I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. This is one of my core friendship philosophies. actually number five and number six are two of my core friendship philosophies. I write about five friendship philosophies in the book. Number five is like every selfie.

Again, this comes from a David Gate poem. And this is actually a controversial directive. Who knew? You would not believe the feelings that people have about those of us that post selfies, those of us who like or comment on selfies, there are so many feelings about the way one another acts on the internet. I know this because I have these informal Instagram conversations

that I host, like in stories a lot of times, and I get so much reaction when I talk about anything around this. So like one time I asked on Instagram, do you notice if your friends don't like or comment? comment on your posts. And never in all of my years on the internet have I gotten a faster response from people. People had so many big feelings about this. Now, sometimes they were like, that's ridiculous. You absolutely cannot care if anyone likes your posts. And then other people are like, I don't want to care, but I do care. People have a lot of feelings around this.

The thing that we're talking about here, number five that I'm sharing, is like every selfie. When I read this line in a poem a few years ago, I was like, okay, well, that's it. I mean, that's like my new mantra. I am not going to like weigh the pros and cons. Do I actually like this selfie that my friend has posted? Do I want to encourage her? I don't want to encourage her. Like we have so many weirdo feelings that run through our mind. And sometimes we, in our very weird and passive aggressive ways, we withhold likes and comments on people's stuff because we are tangled up in our own complicated feelings about it. And I just dropped all of that. It was almost like I read this line and I was like, oh yeah, no, I'm not going to do that anymore. Now, of course, I'm not encouraging

you to like and comment on stuff if you like disagree. But their general selfies, family posts, vacation posts, whatever. Why do we pretend that we are cultural critics and we're going to like or not like things like we're weighing out the pros and cons. No more weighing. I am liking every selfie and more than selfies. I am liking what my friends are putting out there as long as it doesn't misaligned with a belief or something. Right. Because it is the smallest, the absolute smallest way to show that we see them, we care, we love them. It costs us nothing. And doing this weird tango in our heads about like, why does she always post this or like this sort of bugs? Doing any of those weird tangos that we do, that affects our friendships offline and in real

life. And so stop it. Just stop it. Just like the selfies. We got a, we got a fellow big sister in the house right now. She's just like, get it. Okay. So your other friendship mantra is number six is just go.

Just go is like, just go. go to the birthday party. It does not matter if it is at a restaurant that you hate. It does not matter if it starts after your bedtime. Jamie Lee Curtis. Come on. Like, just go. Same thing for even bigger things, like especially bigger things, even weddings, milestone birthday trips, whatever. We have gotten so into this, I don't want to say habit, but like, when I was growing up, like you just went to those things like you went to people's big moments like I never think about it you didn't even think about it yeah yeah it was part of community like you go to people's weddings or whatever like why are we like weighing the our self-care there's been so much talk around like well you have to

get your sleep and you have to manage your energy and you're and look I do all those things I manage my energy I stay on top of my mental health like all of those things matter but this self-care talk has so far to the extreme where it means that we're missing one another's moments. We are not going to their things because we have made a value of going to bed at 930. Yeah. You have to sometimes put those things aside to show up for your friends. Just go. Don't weigh the pros and cons.

Don't be like, oh, I'm going to be tired tomorrow. Well, you might. You might. You know what else? You showed up for a friend. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm for the self-talk.

I understand why that's in response to centuries of women not caring for themselves. So I am here for us talking about self-care and putting on our own oxygen mass and all of those things. But in the context of relationship and community, a lot of things are getting lost. So I'm reading this book right now called The Power of Fun by Catherine Price. You would love it, I think. It reminds me of your book about friendship, Ingrid Fetell Lee's book about joy, Priya Parker's book about gathering. You know, it kind of approaches this thing that feels really enormous and breaks it down into

smaller pieces that feel like they make sense. And so hers is doing this with fun. And it's really fascinating. But one of the things that she talks about is presence, presence in that fun moment, you know, like that's one of the things that makes things like really enjoy. truly fun is that you're just, you're in it. You're not thinking about, you're not distracted by other things like you are just in the moment and you're connecting with something, something or someone. And how I was actually making a list of the things that were fun memories for me because we don't

really know how to practice this very well in our lives. And it's kind of like, how do we identify this? It's the same thing that you're doing with friendship. Like, how do we put words to this? And when I made a list of the things that were fun, so many of them were choices. is to go. And I could have not gone and had a much shorter list of things that were memorably fun. And it's just a, it's a really important thing for us to just go. That is your posture towards your relationships is that you go. And I believe that we rarely, I think you even said this, say this in the book, like, we usually don't regret going. Like, it's very rare that we regret going. There's also an identity piece to this, I feel like, of how we see ourselves and how others see us.

We all have that friend, right, where you're like, we're not even going to invite her. She'll never go. We all have that friend. Yeah, sure. I do not want to be that friend. I would rather from an identity and perception place and relationship be like, oh, she'll go. She'll be up for it, whatever, not to be taken advantage of or anything. But I have been in times in my life, sort of actually darker times in my life where I was the friend that never went that didn't ever go.

And I feel like that became, I became a person in that season that I didn't want to be. I don't want to be the person who never goes that people kind of see in that way. Like it felt better to me in my spirit, in my body to be a person who goes, a person who shows up, a person who's fun or consistent or all of that. those things instead of the person who I became, which was lonely, actually. Wamp, wom. Yeah. Like, I got a lot of sleep. And I was so hydrated.

And also, I was lonely. You just nailed it. You know, where when you really think about the cost, is it worth that cost? And I just think the answer is rarely is it. is the answer like yeah it is it that that's rare that it's yes so anyway so just go just go guys just go okay okay we're going to lower the bar a lot we're going to lower the bar but this has been key to my friendships in the last i don't know however long six or seven years it's been a long time now number seven is try apps that connect us like vaux marco polo etc there's different

apps out there, whatever your friend group is into, sometimes even just voice messages over text instead of texting. So there's a few things that I like about these apps. One is I think voices are so much more connecting. Texts, as we I'm sure have all learned in some way or another, the tone can be misread. Just you don't, over time, especially you don't maybe feel as close to a person when you're only communicating via print. Our voices. Yeah. Our voices, our faces,

that can really make a big difference in your relationship. And especially now that so many relationships are long distance. Right. My closest friends are in different time zones. And so using these apps, like I use with you regularly, like using these apps lets us respond and leave messages in our own time, in our own life with.

having to do a phone call, which I still love an old-fashioned phone call if you need to do a big, long, meaty catch-up. But for most of the time, just general, regular connection, there are so many apps that let you do that. And don't like think, ugh, I don't want to learn a new app or, this seems complicated. They've brought a lot to my life. Even there's a team app for my kids' volleyball team. It's centered around the sport, but it's also one place that we're all sort of gathered so it's informational but also we post jokes and photos of the girls and like things like that there are so many different apps that you can use to connect with people and don't dismiss them because you think oh that's not that's not real connection or I don't want to learn something

new they can really enhance your life agreed agreed I cannot remember the last time that I went a day without using boxer oh yeah I use boxer every single day every day every day it would be so sad if I didn't have it we'll be right back number eight is this requires a little bit more intention, but is also a really beautiful part of relationship. And that is notice their love language. So this is something of all of these that we're talking about. This is actually one that's hardest for me and that I have to really like pay a lot of

attention to. But just noticing, this doesn't mean you have to like, you're not sitting down and having a big heart to heart about this necessarily. But just noticing if when you gave them their gift, they were absolutely thrilled by it. like maybe gifts or their love language. Notice that when you are able to do a favor for a friend, if that really seems to speak to them and, you know,

deepen your relationship in some way, they really had a lot of gratitude for that. Maybe their love language is acts of service. Maybe giving them just liking their selfie, giving them a quick affirmation of like, oh my gosh, you did so great at your presentation today or whatever you're saying, like a quick word of affirmation. And if they light up to that, just notice like, oh, hey, she really responds to this, this or this.

And so I'm going to do more of that when I can. That's just noticing. That's just general mindfulness. And again, if you notice your friend is really into gifts, it doesn't mean that you're going to spend a ton of money and shower them with gifts. It's just noticing what they respond to. And like what would mean something to them that would like further build your bond. That's all. It's not, again, this is not like, I'm not trying to give a lot of assignments here. Notice is one of my big words. And so that's why number eight is notice their love language. Yeah. I mean, I think about just like when you're going to hang out with somebody, I'm getting a coffee on the way. You want one? I'll bring you one. Or know, like if they live far away, sending them $5 to their favorite, then moaned them $5 to their favorite coffee shopping. I was thinking about you today. I wish we were having coffee together. But here's go get a cup of coffee and. like think of me or you know like whatever um or i'm thinking of you or it's you're right it's we again

we overcomplicate things we we make them so so big and so grand and so out of our reach when we hear the word a word like gift and it doesn't have to be something that is yeah extravagant all the time it can be extravagant and it's it can be extravagant without being extravagantly expensive well and there's an intimacy to really knowing someone's love language like if you know that it will mean more to your local friend. If you, you don't need to give them a fancy birthday present. If you say, you know what, for your birthday, I'm going to pick up the kids all week at school and bring your kid home for you or whatever. Yeah. If that, if you know that that would be like the best gift she would ever receive ever. Yeah, it's really special. You both win in some ways.

You don't have to go, you know, buy a big expensive present. And she gets like a thing that's really going to make her weak. So just like sort of noticing their love language and what matters to them. Yeah. Absolutely. And it goes along with number nine, which is put their important moments on your calendar. So this for me springs out of one of my core friendship philosophies that I write about in the book, which is friendship is a to do. So in my life in the last few years, where I have misstepped in friendship is when I have just not weeks and months have gone by and I have not made a friend any kind of a priority because I am busy. I'm a working mom. We were in a pandemic, like all the different ways that our life gets really full and busy, which is great and amazing. But I am not

going to naturally remember that you had an important doctor's appointment. I am going to space out that you were up for a promotion. I just didn't. am like I care about you and I care about those things, but I have to put them on my to do list or in my digital calendar because I will not remember. And I want to check in on you. And I want to ask how it's going. And I want to know those things. I'm not going to do it naturally. I do think this is a fallacy of friendship that a lot of us fall into is that we think it's going to be natural. We think that we are just going to remember that they had a health scare or, you know, have a big milestone birthday coming up or whatever. And maybe we will. but maybe we won't. And so help yourself out and put their important moments on your calendar so that you can remember to check in and they will feel seen and loved. There is one side note to this one is that I had an alarm set to check in on a friend, an alarm on my phone.

I found this to be very thoughtful. She thought that it was like she was a chore. You know, she did not receive when she found out that I had set an alarm. to check on her. She was like, I don't want to be on your to-do list. Like, she was receiving that in the spirit that I did not mean it. And so, I mean, we worked it out. And she saw like that it was my way of caring for her. But I actually had to be honest that her like receiving it that way. I don't think she was like the only person that might receive it that way. So I'm saying that to like think about maybe you don't need to tell everybody that they're on your to-do list.

You don't need to show them your calendar that everything that they've told you was on it. And that that this particular number by not resonate with everyone because a lot of people, you know, may naturally remember all of these things. But at this point, more than any other time in history, we know a lot of people. So used to our grandmothers, they had, you know, four friends. We know 400 people loosely. And so that doesn't mean all of your people that, you know, you're going to want to remember everybody's little thing.

but it does take up our brain space. And so for me, for my closest friends that I do want to make sure I don't forget their important things, I have to write it down. It has to be part of my workflow almost and make sure for yourself and for your friends that you're framing that up as a source of care and not like a drudgery that you've made that. And this brings us to number 10. this is the most important one on the whole list. It's one of my other friendship philosophies.

And it is harder than it sounds sometimes. Number 10 is believe the best. We have to start in a place of friendship by believing the best of one another. I know our brains. My brain can go to like an insecure place or we have our baggage from the past or whatever to think, she really meant to hurt my feelings with what she said. Or she's not texting me back because I knew it. She actually doesn't even like me.

Or whatever our brain's anxieties, insecurities, trick us into saying, we have to start from a place of believing the best of one another. I have to believe that your intentions were good, that you did not mean to hurt my feelings with that, that you did not mean to not text me back. And if we have to have a conversation about what you're going to be, one of these hard things that actually happened, we're starting that conversation from a place of believing the best about one another. I have to believe that you love me, that you didn't

mean it, that you're a good person. And I have to believe that because I need you to believe that about me. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So if we have to have a hard conversation, which happens. We hurt one another's feelings sometimes. We, you know, drop the ball sometimes. So sometimes you have to have these conversations, but if you start from a place of, I believe that you didn't mean this, but we still need to talk about it. Or I believe that you aren't trying to drop the ball, but this is actually affecting my life or whatever. To have those conversations, but you're starting from a place of truly, not just lip service, but truly in your heart, believing that your friend is a good person who doesn't want to hurt you, that conversation that's hard is going to go so much

better than when you start from a place of being accusatory where they get defensive, where you can do irreparable harm in a relationship because you started from a place of believing that they were a crap person. Or even like they're sneaky responses to that too. It's not just like they're a crap person, but it's like they don't really care about me. Or they're like quietly destructive things that you're believing. that in some ways are not about them, it's about you. You know, you're creating these narratives in your head of like, well, it's another person

who doesn't care about me. It's another person that doesn't want to spend time with me. It's another friendship fail. It's another whatever, like that people just can be unknowingly sucked into the vortex of your own stories that you're telling yourself about yourself in friendship. And so it can go, I feel like that's an important thing to note is that you might be like, oh, I never think they're bad. You might think you are, though. And that's equally destructive in the conversations when you maybe don't, maybe you're the kind of person who's not going to bring it up

because you think it's your fault. But then you distance yourself and you isolate yourself and that person doesn't feel connected with you anymore because you're believing this thing. You're not believing the best by yourself either. And so it goes both ways. You need to believe the best both ways. And sometimes we tell ourselves that they are a bad friend. But maybe they're just a bad texter. Right. Right. You know what I mean?

Like we need to believe the best about them, even if it's a thing that's a pattern. And we need to either like adjust how we're thinking about it or adjust what that friendship dynamic is. Now, not if the pattern is like mean. Sure. They're mean to you. But if they're thinking, oh, they never, they do not follow principle number six. They do not always just go.

They never go. It must mean that they actually hate me because I. They never come to my staff. When you could maybe see like, this isn't personal. They don't go to anything after 8 p.m. You know, you come to that conclusion because you believed the best about them instead of going to the quicker thing of like, oh, we're not actually good friends or she doesn't actually like me or actually she's, you know, selfish or whatever, these weird things that we think. When you believe the best about yourself and others, everything elevates. And this is what I want the whole book to do is to elevate the way that we think about friendships, the way we think about our relationships, instead of all of the different stories we tell ourselves, all the ways that we walk into loneliness inadvertently, all the ways that we let our insecurities rule the day. I'm trying to like elevate the way we think about all of those things. But it's work, y'all. This is work. We said that these were to start small.

this is some heart work that we're talking about. It really is. Yeah. Well, and it's, it's why we get frustrated when there's not a formula or a quick fix or anything like that because there are some things, there are some things that you can have legitimately legitimate, legitimate start small, quick fix, tangible things. And some of the ones on your list are actually like very specific in that, you know, like to like every selfie. But there are there are not underlying issues to, well, there might be I was going to say to like buying pre shredded cheese. But you also might be like, well, I could shred it myself so I should probably buy.

You know, like we just, there are a lot of, we carry around a lot of baggage around a lot of things. And friendship is probably the one that they're the heaviest because it's something we so desperately want. Like, you could not want to be married. You could choose to not be child to, to not have kids. You know, you could choose to be childless. Like, there are lots of relationships that are, you know, socially, not just acceptable, but preferred, let's say, you know, like, and you kind of feel bad about those, but you can work away. You can, you can work your way out of the baggage around those kinds of things. I don't think any, no one can exist without a friend.

You can't exist without a friend. You can exist without a spouse. You can exist. You can exist without a spouse. You can exist without kids. But we cannot exist without a friend. And so it's so in some ways beautifully simple that like we just need each other. And yet it can just spiral out because we're bringing it's about we're dealing with people here. We're dealing with our own issues with other people's issues. And it can just feel overwhelming and easy to just be like, screw it. I don't, I don't want to deal.

And you're going to be rested and hydrated and lonely. And I think people don't want to be lonely. I think that, you know, you've mentioned the pandemic a couple times. Like, it showed us that we actually don't like being lonely. Yeah. That there's a cost to being alone. And we're still probably paying that, I think. We will be in ways that we won't see for a long time, I think.

But that it's worth, it is worth the work. And sometimes it's really hard work. Sometimes it's not work at all. It is just the most fun. And most of the time it's kind of somewhere in between. And it's worth doing, though. It's worth doing. And it's easier to do when you have a book like the Life Council to read and give you

language and categories and structure and permission. And it's just a, it's the book that we need. It's the book that we need. People ask about friendship all the time. And I've just been waiting to be like, read the Life Council. Just read the life. It's going to be fine. And also that not every friendship, this is a huge part of the book that we haven't touched on,

not every friendship is going to be like besties, heart to heart. We know each other inside and out. Like a lot of the friends on the Life Council, that is not their role. That is a very unique role. If you have a bestie, if you have a friend that knows you inside and out, that is amazing. You probably only have one of those, maybe a couple of those. But there are so many other people in your life that can fill beautiful roles as mentors, obsessives, new friends, battle buddies, all these roles that I talk about in the book that don't

have to be soul deep friendships. And there's still amazing relationships in your life and that you are in theirs. That's the other thing. We're talking about building our own life counsel and who is. is going to fill these seats on our life council. But obviously the reciprocal is true. We are on other people's life counsel metaphorically. So reading these different descriptions,

maybe it gives you some freedom to be like, oh yeah, I'm not her soul sister. I'm not. I am this other thing. And that frees me from the insecurities of whatever I'm getting tangled up in or whatever. I'm going to be this to her.

And I'm going to be the best this. I can be. But it's not all, it's not all like margaritas and heart to hearts and all these things that pop culture tells us about friendship. There's just a lot of different ways that we can have beautiful relationship in our life. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad that you have chosen to write this book and share this book and talk about it until you die. And it's so good. y'all you know i say this every single time but i feel i feel like it's important to repeat especially if there are new people who are listening i don't share people with y'all or books with y'all or any of that that i am not like no for real for real and this is for real

it is it is a book that you will reach for again and again it's a book that you're going to be excited to give to friends of yours it's going to be it's a lifelong book it's a lifelong book It's one that you will keep referencing and because you're as your seasons of life change and your friendships change within those seasons and you, you feel more at ease when friendships naturally come to an end or they shift or whatever. Like you don't, you're not like every friend that I have right now. Like I have to, you know, it's like their water like falling through a colander and you're trying to grab them or whatever.

It's like, no, no, no, no. Start where you are right now. These are your friends right now. this is wonderful. Enjoy this. And as things shift, you don't have to be afraid of that. You don't have to be afraid of that. And it's just so good. It's so good. So it's so exciting. I'm so excited for you. Thank you for being here with us today. Oh my gosh. Your words mean everything to me, Kendra. It truly does. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all so much for listening to last week's conversation and this one. What a gift, Laura, is to us, a fellow big sister. If they're ever

was one. I hope you enjoyed these last two weeks. And I also hope that you've already gotten her book. The Life Council, it's obviously available anywhere you can get books, and you will feel so good about the perspective it gives you on friendship. We will put a link in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. And until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra. I'll see you next week. You ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that, more dangerous than a B. minus or a C plus life because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus

life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.