The Lazy Genius Podcast - #344 Kendra Gets Personal

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Today, we're doing something a little different. Kelly Corrigan, host of PBS's Tell Me More and the podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders, is here to pull back the veil on some of the things that make me tick. We're talking about the real heart behind the Lazy Genius and how it can help you combat some of the end-of-the-year energy, plus what celebrity I'd be friends with and what live performance changed both of our lives. Helpful Companion Links Find Kelly online Follow Kelly on Instagram @kellycorrigan Episode #207: 15 Moments That Shaped the Lazy Genius The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan Sign up for the Latest Lazy Listens email. Grab a copy of my book The Lazy Genius Kitchen or The Lazy Genius Way! (Affiliate links) As with all of our interview episodes, there’s no transcript. Thanks for understanding! This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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There's so much wasted intelligence, if you ask me. Like there are there so many people who are quote unquote smart, high IQ, beautiful vocabulary, working vocabularies. They can just spool through big, huge, complex ideas in a way that everybody in the room can understand. And that's a beautiful kind of intelligence. But it's a little bit beside the point if you can't get your ordinary life together. If your life is killing you, if your life is like weighing you down, If your shoulders are slumped for a decade because you don't know how to organize a to do list or you don't know how to say no to things. Yeah.

Like you can't even get to the point where you're enjoying the riches of that other type of intelligence. Unless you're a man. There we have it, folks. Hey there. You're listening to the lazy genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is episode 34. Kendra gets personal. Today I'm joined by my brilliant friend Kelly Corrigan, a four-time New York Times bestselling author, host of the fantastic podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders,

and host of the PBS television show Tell Me More. Kelly is also a tremendous interviewer. Her conversations on both of her shows are always fascinating and deeply human. So when Kelly asked me if she could come on my show and interview me to offer you guys a little bit of behind the scenes about how I tick, I said, yes. Yes, because I trust her. She is really good at her job. She is like us, y'all. She cares about people, about goodness, about getting her stuff done.

And she brings such insight, wisdom, and humor into all of it. So this episode is a little different for us around here, but I think it's one that you're truly going to enjoy. So enjoy my conversation with Kelly Corrigan. So some things that we have in common is that your sort of very simple message of be lazy about things. that don't matter and a genius about things that do goes to this larger point which which is where you had me you know you had me at hello you had me at remember not everything can matter yeah and the thing that you said recently that I thought might be kind of fun since we're getting close to the end of

the year here is you you surfaced a set of questions that people could ask themselves about a year as it's ending such that they might make a better plan for the year to come. A plan that's more oriented towards what is most important and is less vulnerable to the nonsense that you could accidentally let slip onto your to-do list. So there were three questions in particular that I'm going to give you from that list. So this is your own words coming right back at you. What's changed in you that you're proud of? Who do you miss?

And what's something you're really glad happened in 2023? A trap that I fell into for most of my adult life was the trap of productivity. Because we live in a productivity industrial complex in the United States, meaning that in order for this huge industry of productivity and self-help and time management and all of these things, all of this optimization, in order for it to continue to make the billions of dollars a year that it makes, we need to continue to require its tools. So therefore, contentment and personal reflection that has to do with relationships and self-awareness and groundedness in your own self and where you are right now,

those things are the antithesis of needing, continuing to need those tools. Contentment is not on the board. It is not on the whiteboard. It does not drive economic activity. No, it does. Like if you like your sweater, you're not going to buy another. You're not going to buy another one. And that's not to say that, you know, momentum and,

and ambition and productivity itself, like wanting to get your stuff done. None of those things are bad. But if those are the ultimate goal, and if our end of the year, beginning of the year energy is focused on

what can I do? What did I do? What can I do more of? If it's all about the doing and the tangibility of our lives, as opposed to, I mean, I do love that question. Like, who do you miss? Who you're not seen in a while?

Maybe it's, you know, maybe it's yourself. Maybe you have been moving so fast that who you miss is who you used to be and you have to grieve that. Or maybe it's, you've moved. And it's just giving ourselves space to reflect on these things. And I'm not very good at reflection. That's why I have to have help and questions and other experts that are good at this kind of thing. because I'm not naturally inclined to it. But if we can spend our, that end of the year,

fresh start energy thinking about what we are content with, what we don't need to keep tending to, or we can just continue to tend in the way that we have been and be perfectly happy with that. I mean, I have the number of, you know, December 29th. And also my birthday is December 27th. So that week between Christmas and New Year's, it's peak productivity week when it should really be in many ways like peak rest week because it's like, okay, holidays are over. We're all home for the most part. Like what a lovely thing this is. So if you throw in a birthday, which tends to be fairly reflective for some people anyway and like in this next year I'm going to or in this last year I didn't or whatever. So I have like all of that energy in one place. And I am a a recovery. perfectionist and loveless and things. And so it really is like a hot, it's a hot bed of

falling down the wrong path for me. But there have been years where I just sweet, sweet, adorable, Kendra. There have been years in that week, in that beginning of that fresh start January energy where I evaluated every area, every single area of my life, ones that we're working great, ones that need no evaluation. It's like writing down, I'm not against writing down something on your to-do list just to check it off. Neither am I. I think that can be a really a powerful mental thing to do sometimes. But to look, to dismantle, to take apart a working machine.

My lawnmower works great. But you know what? It's the beginning of summer. Let's just make sure that I can't make this better. And then I take the whole thing apart and go, I think I just, I've ruined it now. I have to go buy a new lawnmower. Like we just disassemble these disassemble these things that didn't need to simply because of the time of year that we're in. And because we live in a culture that really values optimization and doing everything to peak productivity to serve a future that we don't even know if we're going to get to in the way that we envision it now.

You know one thing we said to each other, my husband and I, while our kids were. young and at home is don't try to make a happy kid happier. And it's, it goes to, it can be applied to many things. Yes. So, you know, you see a kid on the floor and they're using like the markers that are all dried out. But it's like really working for them. They're fine. They're not asking for anything. And then you're like, I'm going to go get them the crayons because it's going to be better for them. And then they're like, I don't want the crayons. And you're like, don't be rude. I just went and got the crayons. Like I'm trying to make your life better, kid. And they're like, who asked you? Who asked you to make my life better? So you're doing it to yourself.

Like, don't make a happy person happier. Don't make a happy lawnmower machine happier. Don't make a happy 2024 happier. Like, it's okay to coast a little bit and to rest when you can rest. I mean, we were just doing it to Edwards parents where he was like just meddling in a positive way, in a contributative way. Meddling in a positive way. You know, where it was just like, I'm going to, like, there was something with their remote, you know, some tech thing that it was like, no, they're 80 and 82. Like, they're probably not going to figure that out.

And he's like, I think I'm going to fix that for him. And I was like, oh, don't make a happy kid happier. Like, you know, my mom, like the cable guy came to give her the new cable box. And all of a sudden it became clear to her that the little things that she had recorded on her box we're going to go away. After hours in her house, she said, I don't want it. Get out of here. I'll pay you anyway.

I don't want the new thing. Yeah. Don't make me happier. I'm happy. I'm happy. That's right. But to ourselves, too, it's like, you don't have to be in this constant state of self-improvement.

You're not that important. I mean, there's 8 million people here. Who cares? Who cares if you're a little fat? Who cares if your house is a little screwy? It doesn't matter. Who cares if your curtains are hanging? Like, it doesn't matter.

It really doesn't matter. It really doesn't. And what is, well, I will, it's tricky because for some reason or another, one of those things could matter to a person. And what the, what the work is, and it is, it can be very slow, tiring work, especially if you're carrying all the other things that we as people carry. But it could be that there is a reason. that having a house that is less messy than it currently is really does matter to you.

But trying to distinguish between, does that matter to me or does that matter to the expectations that I feel like are on me? Does that matter to me in a different season of life? Can that matter to me now? If it does matter to me now in this season of life, that also means that I have to let go of some other things that also matter but not as much. Like there is this very like picking apart. It's like a sorting game that all the pieces can feel a little bit small.

It's sort of like finding the edges of a puzzle in a box. But we're not trying to build a life that's a puzzle because it's too fluid. You know, it's a painting. We live paintings. We don't live puzzles. Because if you, that's what we think we're trying to do is find the outline of the life. And then we're like, okay, here we go. Now I can, all the reds are over here.

here's the hot air balloon, here's the sheep, here are all the signs. I've got, I'm ready. And we just don't, we don't live that way. And so rather than trying to find the outline, trying to sort for the purpose of creating this life that we can point to and go, there are the tangible boundaries. This makes sense. This is how I can describe this thing. And now I've checked the box of the expectations.

I feel like I'm supposed to check. And this is the picture that I've been trying to match. It is a lot harder to sort those things that matter, knowing that they might not matter tomorrow. But they might not matter as much next week or in a different season of life. Or it, because we want everything to, there are so many things coming down our conveyor belt that we need the decision that we make about this thing this one time to be true forever. And while decide once is a lazy genius principle. But the principle of that is decide once about one thing, one time, and keep doing it until it does not serve you anymore. That's the difference is we're not trying to automate.

We're not trying to automate and delegate literally everything because we're not machines. But because that conveyor belt really goes so quickly and it's carrying all these things, we're trying to make each of those decisions count. We don't want to keep sifting. And you have to be really present with yourself in order to continue that process of sifting every day. But that's why I love contentment so much because contentment says, I don't know, but I'm okay right now where I am. And that's that's okay. If we want a whole society of great people who know how to be in the world and how to be with each other and how to contribute and how to help us all move forward in our little incremental ways, it's the people who are teaching people how to be people that are the most important.

And then like people who trade stocks, okay, great. Like, you know, somebody's got to make some money, I guess, because somebody's got to buy all the stuff because somebody's got to keep this economy going, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, like, I'm not naive. But we're, we have so elevated one type of intelligence over this kind of kitchen table wisdom that that you are delivering on you know one of my favorite things about you Kelly is how you may also spit your tea out at this but I did not ever see you as cynical you see things really really clearly and very hopefully like you you just said you're not naive like it's one of my favorite things

about how you talk about the world is that you speak with great realism and pragmatism but also tremendous amount of hope you're you're not like trying to burn things down I just let's just and you demonstrated that with how you just said that. Like I'm over here, I mean, granted, hormonally, I'm probably not in a great place to be hopeful right now. But you are, I just love how you talk about the world because it, it gives me a very realistic kind of boots on the ground, kind of hope. And you don't bring a lot of cynicism into things. And I think that's incredibly valuable. That's good that that's coming through. I mean, I definitely have moments where I think, oh, my God, the bad guys are going to win. Yeah. But I do, I do think,

And I wonder what you think. Like sometimes the best I can do is believe that like it's 51.49. It's 51% of the world is pro-social in this sort of literal sense where they want for the good of all. And 49% of the population is antisocial, which is to say they want for themselves above all. Do you have a split how you see it? It depends on the day. Yeah. But this lazy genius community is one of the biggest reasons why I still feel like my split will be higher.

Like sometimes it feels as high as 70, 30 even. It's just 30 feels really loud. I know what you're saying when you say like the bad guys are going to win. And I even really have tried to be like, I almost don't want to believe that there are bad guys. I want to live like everyone has the capacity to change. everybody has the right to be heard. Everybody has a story that has an undercurrent that we can't see and that I want to have compassion for.

Like as a team, my team, like as a company, we have these cultural words. These are our, this is what we want to be. These are the kind of people we want to be and the kind of work we want to make. And one of those words is we're not, we don't want to be cynical. That's why I love you. That's why I love people who it's not that I'm like, that's bad or any of that. I can just go there so fast. I can just get really angry about things so quickly.

And I want to be a person that does not default to cynicism, that does not default to, well, this person has no rights here or this person is a full trash. Or I just want to be someone who is open handed and values the humanity in all. and if you're going to be somebody who keeps trying to close my hand up and not take those opportunities to be a person with me, I can't make you do that. And I'm probably not going to stick around for much longer because it's taken too much energy to try to make you behave in a way that I want everyone to behave. But all of that to say, like that holding all of that, holding those kinds of expectations

for humanity, it can take a lot out of you, which is why we need each other to hold it all up at the same time. You know, like, we can't, you can't hold your 5149 hope. Yeah. On your own every day. I interviewed Father Greg Boyle. Have you ever met him? I've never met, but I would love to meet Father Greg Boyle. I love Father Greg Boyle. Okay, so this guy is 40 years in. He works in East L.A. He's trying to take care of all these people who are leaving gangs. And we spent probably three hours together in his office and then walking around his community spaces. And he's a Jesuit, and he's a very humble guy. But the dominant idea that he left with me is there are no bad people. They're just people who are hurt. Exactly. Yep. And

That's a very fundamental belief that not everyone shares, actually. Like you could really understand people in the context of like, where are you on that scale? Do you think there are people who have like rotten hearts from the jump? Or do you think that people have been made into like a contorted version of themselves by these events that maybe would have contorted you similarly? And therefore, if that's true, if you could get there, that you would probably be doing and thinking and saying the same things had you lived the same days, you would think completely differently about the world. You would almost never feel vitriol because you wouldn't be able to gin it up. You'd be so sympathetic.

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Aw, isn't something we need to travel for. It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art. I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. You're a humongous reader, by the way. I saw your list of like the number, in one January you read like 11 books. Yeah, it's a little, it's a little absurd.

Awesome. When I think about it. But it's what I do. Like that is what I do when I'm not doing something that is responsible. But isn't it funny how mean people can be to themselves about taking time to read? Like I remember when my kids were little and Edward would leave for work at 7 and come home at 7 p.m. He worked at TiVo way back when it was Teleworld. And it was an hour away from our house in Berkeley.

and I had these two babies. And I didn't feel like it was okay for me to read during the day. Even when they were napping, I didn't feel like I could just curl up and read my book because when Edward came home and he said, how was your day? I did not want to say, oh, it's great.

I'm reading this Ann Patchett novel and it's so good. Like he'd be like, what? Like, what kind of deal is this? Like, why am I slugging it down at TiVo? and you're up here like luxuriating in novels like what but i think it's such a sin so i just want and anyone who's listening who does not allow themselves to read when they want to read during the day kendra and i would like to send this PSA to you go ahead and read the book it's so great or we think we can't read until everything is done totally but i don't know if anyone

has been in a house recently that might have other humans in it Possibly. It's not ever done. Right. There are so many. I did an episode about that recently. I loved it about the cycle. Yeah, the cycle of your home. Like there are just things that are always in a cycle. And if you try and align all of the cycles so that their beginnings and ends are at the same place, but then you try to hold on to that end where everything is complete. It just makes you a nut job. I know. It's like after the cleaning lady leaves. and you're like, no, don't, don't. Didn't you already eat cereal? Like don't, get the bowl on the counter. Like, let's just live in this just for five more minutes. I know. I know.

So that's the other thing is that we think we can't do things like read until all of it is done. And then it's a reward or then it is a mark of I did a good job here. And I think that we need to stop that. Like it's okay to, you know, I'm not saying rewards are bad or even like saving something that you really love for the end of like when you get through your work. Because there are we do have to be responsible people. Like there are things that we do have to do. And the pushback whenever I talk about like take a break or rest. You're allowed to take a nap.

You can read a book. Like you don't have to put the laundry away first. You can actually do this now. You're a grown up. Like make a choice. It's okay. The pushback is, but there's so much to do. If I, it becomes a catastrophized.

You know, if I stop in the middle of the day and I do this and maybe my husband comes home and everything is messy, quote unquote, everything is messy. And I'm sitting here on the couch reading or I want to hide my book because I did spend time reading and I don't want to think that. Like there is just a, there are wildly different expectations of the value of our time across gender roles, across career. and the value of them, all of those things. Yes, and there's like, there's this way that you can try to re-evaluate your value to your people.

So your greatest value to your people is not clean counters in a full fridge. The greatest value is being an interesting, fulfilled person who can engage with them in a positive way. And so that's the game you're playing. You're not like Henrietta Housewife. I mean, all that stuff has to get done by somebody. Maybe you could get like a little teamwork going. Maybe it could not land on just one person. But all that aside, like the value, I'll tell you what we do.

On our podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, every Sunday, we read a eulogy that's been sent in by a listener. And they're often about people's parents who have died. Sometimes we do an anniversary toast. sometimes we do a bat mitzvah speech it's really just a wonderful way to remember what game we're playing and when people eulogize their parents they do not talk about full fridges and clean counters yeah they say they had enough energy to talk to me and listen to me they knew me they understood me in the way that i worked that's what people miss so to go back to like who do you miss i miss my dad And what I miss specifically about him is I have never, and I don't think I ever will again,

have been loved that well before. It was so agendaless. It was just like, I think you're neat. I love your company. Yeah, yeah. You're a great conversationalist, Lovy. Like, he just loved being with me. And I would never miss some other element of him.

Like, he loved doing laundry. He loved it. He didn't sit in front of the Eagles game and fold three loads while it was still warm. And he'd be talking to it. He'd be like, all right, Mr. Shirt. Now we're going to put you down like that, put you right there. And here goes Mr. Boxer Pile. I'm going to pile those up nice and high.

You know, and it was like a total joy for him. It was a kick. I mean, he was a character. But what I miss is that he had energy for me. My son, Ben, did a project at school, like one of those. little questionnaires to fill out. And one of the questions was something like, what do you love most about your mom? Or what does your mom do for you? Or it was something like that. And his answer was, she kisses me good night every night. And I was like, that's going to be a

eulogy to you someday. That's it. That's all you need. You know, like, it was a, it was, it was, it was quite a moment because I was very deep into, I mean, this would only been a couple of years ago. But I was very deep into therapy and self-awareness and this journey that is going to be lifelong of me of releasing the expectations that I've been carrying for the majority of my life of what my life is supposed to be and what it's supposed to mean for other people. And so even really deep into that with so much freedom, teaching these things to hopefully give freedom and permission to other people. And I read that and it like undid me. first in a in a in a really beautiful positive way of like oh baby that's so precious that's all he needs and then like what the actual like I do all these other things are you kidding me that's what you notice is that I kiss you been out of that Halloween costume I made for you like where is the credit

for the way I make the sandwiches without the crusts exactly exactly and it made me it made me frustrated at all of these other things that I do And then it kind of circled back around to, why am I doing those things? Am I doing those things in order to receive the affirmation and spoken value of them by my family? Or am I doing them because I love my family? And I think that these things are beneficial to my family and make them feel seen and loved, even if they can't name them, even if they don't articulate it that way. And so it, it was this really like legit full circle, like a full circle of these different emotions of going through that.

I mean, he said kissing my mom kissing me good night. And but what that also did is makes me recognize years later because I still go in and kiss him good night. That that is not wrote. That is not something that's easily dismissed or so rhythmic that you don't. It's not a habit in the sense that I don't think about it. It is a habit that it happens, but I want to think about it because it matters to him. And I was a kid who didn't get kiss good night. Like I would, I had, my mom did.

And, but my father, he would say, I'm coming. Like, I'm coming. I'm coming. I'll be there. And I would just lie awake waiting and he would never come. And so even the compassion that that that creates for my son, but also towards myself in being a kid, still having that little kid in me that's like, is my dad going to come and say good night? I would really like for my dad to come and say tonight.

And is he going to come tonight like night after night after night? Having the compassion go back. Did he forget? He didn't care. He didn't care. He didn't care. He was never going to come. Uh-huh.

Like that's just waiting for you to fall asleep. I don't talk to him anymore. He was deeply abusive and terrible. So he has not been in our life for a long time. But yeah, like he just didn't care. And so even despite like I say that to hopefully just give some like elasticity to the experience and emotions of anyone listening. I was a kid who was not kiss good night. And I still.

could get into the headspace of like, come on, Ben, really? That's the thing that you need when that's the thing I wanted. You know, like we are just, we are people who are impacted in ways that we have no idea that we have maybe not even fully articulated from our past, from the culture we grew up in, from the culture we currently live in, from just the daily grind of the energy required to just live every day. And so that's what I'm saying before about the conveyor belt of like the picking apart. Like there is, if you are not used to the process of living every day, paying attention to

what did that word just do to him? Why am I resenting that choice that my husband just made towards me right now? Why? Does this really matter? Like I ask myself all the time, what matters the most right now? Does this matter right now? if you are not used to that sort of, dare I say, constant, I don't want to say evaluation, but presence with what is happening in your life and you're noticing those, if you're not

used to kind of the emotional noticing and the what can feel like draining work of making these tiny adjustments as you go and releasing certain things, releasing offenses, noticing like, oh, actually this one, I'm not going to be able to release this very well. I need to have a conversation with him about that later. Or this is not the time for this lesson. Or I need to not stress out about the chicken. Like it's no one's fault. It's okay.

You know, if you're not used to that energy and even hearing me say it out loud, you're like, well, that sounds like a terrible way to live. I don't want to constantly be aware of what's going on in and around me. And yet, if I find, if I'm not, I become a machine and I rise above it and I hurt people and my I become I'm not an agendaless person. Everything has an agenda without even my realizing it because I'm not present with what's really happening in and around me. And so it is a I think that this work. I think it's why I love what you do.

It's why you sort of like have you know when you're going to connect with something. someone, it's like, oh, you get it. You get it. Because living this way, it is, it's a lot. Yeah, it's tiring. The scanner, like turning on the scanner and, you know, appreciating body language and tone of voice and if their cheeks are flushed, if they're not making eye contact. Like, there's just a lot of, there's a lot of work going on person to person when you're really invested and trying to come up with just the right. response to whatever that day has brought. I mean, that is so exhausting.

And it's very invisible to the eye. It's almost like microscopic the levels that you're tracking for these people. And I mean, I almost feel that the most tiring thing I've ever done is try to figure out what my face should be doing when my kid is telling me something hard. Should I be giving them a face that says, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Or should I be giving them a face of, that's okay. You're not shocking me. You're going to, I hear you, but this is very common.

Am I normalizing with my face? Am I making it worse with my face? And the way that like the kid who comes up with the bloody knee and you're like, makes the kid like burst into tears. Like the responsibility. They didn't know they were hurt until you say something. Yes. Yeah.

The responsibility. of an expression is actually quite intense if you're really trying, if you're really trying to integrate every little thing you've heard on this podcast and through this book and at that conference and everything you know about this kid and the situation they're in right now inside this culture and this community. I mean, there's just so much going on that I feel the applause should be much great. for just the average parent who releases the kid into the world who's pretty decent. Yes.

Well, and that is why I think we go so quickly to systems and big machines. Because if we have to choose, if we're going to be tired either way, I'm working on an episode right now about division of labor, it will already be out by the time this is out. but there are four paths that can come out of your frustrations or challenges around division of labor in a two adult home. And the word tired is in all four. It's like we're always going to be a little tired. If our goal is to not be tired, we're just going to be tired trying to get to that goal.

So I think that in certain life stages, for the most part, that is just going to be sort of part of it. but it could also be a fulfilled, contented tired at the end of the day, as opposed to an exhausted, resentful tired, all that to say, if we sort of, if we know that in some way being tired is going to be part of it. And we are not used to choosing the path of the tired that comes from compassion and empathy and kindness and presence with other people, it almost, feels more gratifying and fulfilling to take the path that is something that is bigger, tangible, solves our problems, is check-checkable, has a box next to it. That's one of the reasons why I think that we go that direction is because we're trying

to eliminate something that cannot be eliminated. And it feels easier to have something we can build, to have pieces to put together in an order and build something to support this life as opposed to thinking about what our expression is when we're talking to somebody. Well, fixing is fun. Fixing is fun. And it's such a false high because I've seen this before where a kid of mine will bring up something and my husband will dive into like a little sermon, how to handle a job interview.

or what to write in a college essay or whatever. And I'll see my kid, my kid. I mean, Edward hopefully will not listen to this episode because you're not going to like what I'm about to say. But I'll see the kid just start to tune out. Yeah, glazing over. Because he hasn't listened long enough to give an idea that's relevant to the actual problem. And so they're like, okay, here's what's going to happen. I gave him like the tip of my iceberg.

and he's responding to the tip of my iceberg with his big sermon, and I'm just going to let him wear himself out, and then I'm going to be like, thanks, that's really helpful. And then I'm going to go upstairs with the rest of my iceberg and figure it out by myself. Right. And so to me, my go-to, like talk about lazy genius, like principle number one for me is tell me more, go on, what else?

That's it. Yeah. No more words. Seven words. Not nine, not 20. Because the thing behind the thing behind the thing, it's going to take you that many questions and prompts to get them to get there. Yeah. You know, it just happened. Like one of my kids said, I've been feeling anxious. And it was like, tell me more. And then what else? Go on. Da-da-da-da. And there it was. But, I mean, it was, it probably took her 25 sentences to get.

to the nut and nobody's giving them 25 sentences like that's a thing that only a parent will do i mean she's in college like people are flowing and going and that people are in their own heads about their own stuff and they love you but they're not like gonna they're not ready for 25 sentences they're not that curious and and everybody thinks fixing is fun so they they too think fixing is fun and so tell me more what else go on like that's my lazy genius approach to parenting. So wait, you never answered my questions, Missy. And this is supposed to be my time to be able to ask you questions.

Tell me somebody you miss. Hmm. Oh, man. I miss. Which direction do I want to take this in? I miss a dad. Hmm. I don't miss my dad.

because my dad was not a good dad. It was a really bad dad. And even the things that I could point to that, like, were good, maybe were manufactured for his own agenda and fulfillment. So there's not a lot there. And then I also don't have a great relationship with the next guy that came in line. and that relationship is also not really there and he wasn't really a dad. And so I miss having a dad. I see people who like you, you know, like I find it. I don't, I want to say, I want to be very, very clear that when you were sharing words about your dad and you obviously have shared a lot of

words about your dad, I never think like, I don't ever hold that against anyone who has a good relationship with her dad. I actually find it to be incredibly, I'm so grateful that other people have beautiful relationships with their dads in all the different kinds of colors that they are. Mine feels like there's not even a painting there. You know, like it's either just sort of gray or black or it's just blank. And so that's what I miss. I miss having a dad. I think what a great vibe to just call your dad and be like, this thing is broken.

or can you help my kid do this or look at this fun thing that happened to me or to have somebody celebrate with me in that way because I do think there is a I see it between my husband and my daughter there's a really unique relationship between dads and daughters just like they're unique every relationship is unique every combination is unique and the uniqueness that exists in between dads and daughters is something that I wish I had. Yeah. And I don't.

And I won't. I won't. Right. Like that's a grief I've had to, I still experience sometimes that I'm not going to have that ever. Right. I didn't and I won't. And, and I can be.

Acceptances of those kinds are like the most adult experiences we have, I think. So annoyingly. Permanent. Permanence is intense. Like so many things are not permanent. But when you bump up against permanence, it's like how many times are I going to have to go through this in my mind where I say, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. I mean, I have a relationship just really hard.

And I go there all the time. Think maybe if I could I look like Kelly, stop, honey. Like it's not common. That stone is not going to bleed. Yeah. And what I don't want to do is, and this is why therapy is. great. What I don't want to do is for that to turn, you're right, that stone is not going to bleed. And I don't want the knowledge of that stone not bleeding make me stone. I'm not stone.

Yes. Yes. I'm not stone. I can be incredibly devastated by the fact that I don't have a dad and not and hold that completely neutrally just like I can go through a father's day. and someone says, I've been thinking about you today. I know today is really hard and be like, oh, I didn't even think about it. I was thinking about my husband being a father to make. Like, it didn't even cross my mind. Like that both of those experiences can happen within the same 24 hours. And that it doesn't mean anything other than this thing is just hard.

And it means that you're highly evolved because it's like one of the hardest and most complex intellectual moves that. we make is to hold opposing views. You know, that two things can be true at the same time that seem to be conflicting and yet they're not. So well done you. So I want to end with the speed round that we do. So I have a show on PBS. It's called Tell Me More. You can watch it, pbs.bs.org slash Kelly. And we end every interview with this little speed round. So I wondered if you would tolerate it. Are you game? I'm totally game. First concert.

Amy Grant. Oh, you're so, so on brand there. Come on. It was a stadium show. She wore red. She had her big, it was early, early Amy. Early Amy. I was a baby.

I was like tiny. Last book that blew you away. The Stand by Stephen King. Oh, wow. That is not what I thought you were going to say. It was my first Stephen King. And I listened to all 47 hours. it this year and it's about a pandemic you know it's about what happens when the world falls apart

and uh i just yeah it was it was a pretty form formative experience reading experience for me best live performance you've ever seen of any kind i saw in the last year i saw james mccaboy in syrinom oh my god i saw it too oh my god oh my god oh my god i'm still like and i He's my celebrity crush. Like I'm kind of obsessed with him. And my friend Jamie got me tickets for my 40th and took me to New York. And we went to see him. And he was right there.

And it showed how good the performance was because I forgot that James McEvoy was standing there. I was watching just one of the greatest live performances I'd ever seen. Of any kind. I could not agree with you more. We were a gog. Yeah. It was really something.

I mean, he is so visceral in his acting. Like the crying and the tension and the tension and it. his body and I love that you saw it too. I love that you could enter into that with me. It was really, really something. I mean, at halftime or intermission or whatever they call it, my husband and I were speechless. I was like, I feel like I am watching like Lawrence Olivier. Like, I feel like this is the, I cannot believe how physically close I am to acting of this caliber. I know. Same. Same. Yeah. What is your go-to mantra for hard times? Good is here right now. Oh, that's great. That's great. If your high school did superlatives, what would you have been most likely to become?

My high school did do superlatives, and I was voted most dependable. Oh, I like that. I feel that. I feel that about you. Is there anyone you would like to apologize to? Oh, man. Anyone who knew me between my ages of 18 and 27 when I was at like peak. That's a pretty big band. perfectionist vibes. Like, I just feel like I was just a really garbage person that decade. Hmm. Yeah.

When was the last time you cried? Yesterday. Yeah, for sure. I cry all the time. What's something big you've been wrong about? That I am, that I am always one mistake away from losing the love of someone, someone. Oh. Oh. Yeah. That was my belief for until the last like five years. What an important belief to upend. Is that through therapy? Is that how you'd say?

Yes. Therapy and the Enneagram has been something that's been really helpful for me to understand kind of my own story and way of seeing things and good relationships being loved through times where I made the mistake and they didn't leave. Yeah. But yeah, that's like that comes up in therapy all the time. Yeah. If you could pass one law or overturn one Supreme Court case. Something about either affordable housing or child care, something to raise people on the bottom, something to like a huge systemic. hit on poverty. If your mother wrote a book about you, what would it be called?

Oh, man. Book titling is very hard, just in general. It's a game I've played. People know how hard it is to name a book. Probably something about hope. Like I was her first, I was born into a really toxic situation. And I think I gave her hope. So something like that.

something about that and if you could say four words to anyone who would you address and what would you say i i would say to neil gayman can we be friends that's what i would say that's phenomenal that is that just is a testament to your absolute adoration for neil gameman i just want to be friends of neil gamon so bad That's amazing. I'm going to try to make that happen. Oh, I'm going to put some cycles on that. Dude, if you, if that, I'm not even kidding you. If that happened, like that's a, I had a, okay, this is not how one is supposed to end a speed round.

But I feel very connected to people. I love connecting with people. And when I know or think I know that I could have a connection with a person, I will not let up. I will not rest. I will not. If I have the avenue to like if I, if I can walk down a path a couple of steps to get there.

But there are also certain people that there is no path. Neil Gaiman has no path. James McAvoy had no path until my friend bought me these tickets to be at least in the room, which was amazing. So there are, whenever anybody like starts drawing a path towards a person I don't have a path to, even jokingly, Okay. Here it is. Here it is. It's going to happen.

It makes me so happy because I've never, he's just been floating. There's no lying. There's no, I'm going to find him for you. I'm going to put you with Neil Gaiman. That is my, that is on my to-do list. Honestly, if anybody, and you know, I respect a to-do list. I know. I mean, I have been taught at the church of lazy genius. I know not to put too much on my to-do list, but Neil Gaiman plus Kendra equals true love forever success. If I was doing a draft of like, who could figure this out for me? You would be top. You would be the first pick. Kelly could. Billy could figure it out. I loved this.

I'll talk to you anytime about anything. Like, this is just awesome. Agreed. Agreed. Thank you for doing this. What a special treat. I love being friends with people named Kelly because I can do the Randy Jackson. Kelly, Kelly, Kelly from American Idol.

But for real, isn't this particular Kelly? So fantastic. if you love me, you'll love her. She is a gift of this world, truly. She's just like the most intelligent hope. She wants to make the world a better place and she's doing it. She's really doing it. We'll have links to all of Kelly's things in the show notes, but check out her podcast, Kelly Corrigan wonders. You can watch her show on PBS, tell me more, or check out any of her books. I will say that based on where I know a lot of you are, I think you would enjoy her book, The Middle Place. It's a memoir about the time when she was both a parent and a child when she and her father both received cancer

diagnoses at the same time. We all want to know that we're like not alone and hard things and Kelly's one of the best voices to remind us that we're not. So thank you Kelly for offering this special episode today. Y'all, that's it for today. Thanks for listening. Until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra. I'll see you next week. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life because when you're living a B or B plus life, If you don't change it, you think it's good enough. Is it?

I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A-plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.