The Lazy Genius Podcast - #348 - Why Habits Don't Demand Perfection with James Clear

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

I’m no stranger to self-help books. Most of them have left me wanting, leaving me feeling like I’ve been given more to do. But when I read Atomic Habits by James Clear in early 2019, I remember thinking it was the best self-help book I had ever read. It’s no surprise that it’s sold 15 million copies since it debuted. And I’m delighted to have James on the show today to talk about habits and how we can approach them as Lazy Geniuses. Helpful Companion Links Atomic Habits by James Clear (affiliate link) Sign up for the Latest Lazy Listens email. Grab a copy of my book The Lazy Genius Kitchen or The Lazy Genius Way! (Affiliate links) Since this is an interview-style episode, there’s no transcript for this one. Thanks for understanding! This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Amazon presents Laura versus Fruitflies. Swarming your fruit and terrorizing your kitchen, these little freaks multiply at a rate that would make a rabbit say, yo. Chill. But Laura shopped on Amazon and saved on cleaning spray, countertop wipes, and fly traps. Hey, fruit flies, your baby boom ends here. Save the Everyday with Amazon. It's something else here now.

Something new. From exclusively on Paramount Plus. It's the series Stephen King calls Scary as Hell. Everything here is impossible, but it's also real. Sci-fi vision calls it the best show streaming right now. We're running out of time and we still don't know the rules. Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home.

From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. Hey there, you're listening to the lazy genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is a very exciting episode. I am joined by the author of the global bestseller Atomic Habits, James Clear. I am no stranger to self-help books. I've read enough to fill a mobile library. Most self-help books over the years, they have left me wanting, leaving me feeling like I've just been given more to do, you know? That's one of the reasons. That's one of the reasons. I've since I wrote The Lazy Genius Way in 2020. But when I read Atomic Habits for the first time in January of 2019, a few months after it released, I remember saying out loud to myself, like, I think this is the best self-help book I've ever read. Now, that is not surprising information, because this book has sold 15 million copies at this point, which is a lot of books. It just lives on the New York Times bestseller list, like all the time. It's really something. And yet, if you're listening, you might have a funky relationship with habits, or at least a funky idea of what they're for. So I'm

legit excited about this conversation with the habit expert, but make no mistake, we want to live like lazy geniuses. We want to pursue the things that matter with kindness and compassion and smallness. And I wonder how that can happen in this context of habits. So let's find out. Here's my conversation with James Clear. Your book is fabulous and I've read it multiple times. Well, thank you. But I would love to talk to you about the difference between rhythms and habits. because as a recovering perfectionist, I am more comfortable with the idea of rhythms than I am with the idea of habits. Because for much of my adult life, my default was to see anything that I did as very binary,

as very past fail, right? And while I have let that pressure go in recent years, that idea of habits, being black and white, it still has its claws in me a little bit. And that is why I currently feel more comfortable with the elasticity and fluidity of the idea of rhythms. And yet, my life is full of habits. My life is full of good, meaningful, beautiful habits that support things that matter. And I also know that I can miss out on the benefit of developing habits in a really healthy way. in a way that you lay out. But because of that idea of its, it's past fail, it's this or that, it's binary,

I sort of avoid it sometimes because I don't want to get sucked into that pathway of being a perfectionist again. So you are, as the habit expert, can you give me a reframe? Because my listeners are very similar to me in that regard, that we know that those things are valuable and they matter. But they have a stigma. habits have a stigma for a lot of people. Can you dislodge that stigma for me?

I'm not sure if this is exactly how you're thinking about the difference between a habit and a rhythm. Certainly, we talk about these things. You know, we use a lot of words interchangeably. Habit, routine, rhythm, pattern. These are all things that people kind of talk about in the same way or in overlapping ways. But sometimes we mean different things by them. I do think there is a common. pitfall when people are picking a habit to follow where we may not say it explicitly, but in the back of

our mind, we're kind of thinking what it would look like to be successful with this new habit is if I just always did it and never missed. You know, if I just did it for the rest of my life, then I would be good at it. And if I stop at some point or I fail or I fall off track, then that must mean that I failed at the habit. And I definitely want to push back on that kind of thinking a little bit. One thing I try to remind myself of occasionally is that there are different seasons in life. And one of the questions I like asking myself is what season am I in right now? And you often find that as your seasons change, your habits need to change to take shape for the new season. And sometimes those inflection points are big things like having kids or getting married

or moving to a new city, taking a new job. There are many. inflection points in life. But sometimes they can be smaller things like taking on a new project at work or starting a new workout routine, you know, or getting up an hour earlier so that you can start working on a creative project or something like that. And whenever your season changes, you should probably take a step back and ask if your habits seem to change shape to better fit that season. And I say that as someone who is pretty slow in learning that. Like when we had kids, it probably took me at least 18 months, maybe two years before I actually realized, hey, I'm trying to force fit all of my old habits into my new lifestyle.

And it's not working. So to bring this back to your question about rhythms versus habits, I like the word rhythm. I think that's great. And I think that there's some flexibility maybe with that word that a lot of people don't feel with habits. And just to give a personal example. So I think generally we could say, I've been an entrepreneur for about 14 years now. And I think generally we could say I've had a pretty good writing habit over that time.

Certainly, you know, for the first three years, I wrote a new article every Monday and Thursday. And that was kind of the habit that launched my career. And then I wrote, I spent the next three to five years writing atomic habits and working on that. So that looked a little different. But I wrote the book. And then now the last four years, I write a weekly newsletter called 321. And that comes out once a week. And that only takes me about, thank you.

That only takes me about two hours to write, maybe three. And it's much shorter. But my point is, those are three different distinct phases over the last 14 years. And my writing habit has looked very different. So the fact that I used to write two articles a week, but I haven't done that in almost 10 years now, does that mean that that habit was a failure? Or is that just like the shape that the habit needed to be for that time? And so I think if you can walk into the task of building new habits with that sort of lens, what shape do my habits seem to take for where I'm at in my life right now?

Maybe that eases a little bit of the pressure, you know, or gives you a different way of thinking about what you're really trying to do here. You're literally speaking my language because in my first book, I share 13 principles, lazy genius principles that kind of support this whole idea of what do on the internet. And one of them is to live in your season. Because that is what we do. We, we set ourselves up that it's, you know, it's the square peg and around whole situation where you think that the way that something worked for your life and then your life changes, whether in small ways or drastic ways. And you try, like you said, you try and cram it in to this new

thing. You think you're doing something wrong. At least I know that that's how I felt for a long time. I'm doing something wrong because this no longer works rather than observing my life looks different now. So this actually, it makes me think of, you know, in your book you talk about outcome-based habits versus identity-based habits. And it makes me think you, instead of saying, I'm going to write two articles a week, you really were focusing on I'm a writer. I'm going to do things to promote being a writer. And that's going to shift. And I do think that we start perhaps from the wrong place when it comes to habit. So maybe this is a great place to ask you about that.

Can you explain to me the difference in an outcome-based habit and an identity-based habit? I think that this is the real reason that habits matter. You know, we often talk about habits as mattering because of the external results they'll get you. Habits can help you lose weight or be more productive or whatever. And that's true. Habits can help you do that stuff. And that's great. But the real reason that habits matter is that every action you take is a vote for the type of person you wish to become.

So, no, doing one pushup does not transform your body. But it does cast a vote for I'm the type of person who doesn't miss workouts. And no, writing one sentence may not finish the novel, but it does cast a vote for I'm a writer. And individually, those are really small things. But collectively, you start casting votes. You keep showing up in small ways each day. and you sort of build up this body of evidence. You know, you have this every reason to believe it.

Your habits are how you embody a particular identity. So every day that you make your bed, you embody the identity of someone who's clean and organized. And every time you study biology for 20 minutes, you embody the identity of someone who's studious. And individually, again, those are small things. But eventually six months or a year or two years from now, you kind of cross this invisible threshold

where you have to be like, you know what? this is kind of part of who I am. This is part of my identity. And so I think that's ultimately where we're hoping to get to. You know, true behavior change is really identity change. It's getting you to shift the story you have about who you are and what's normal. It's looking at yourself and thinking, I'm a runner or I'm a meditator or, you know, I'm a writer. And once you start to take pride in that aspect of your identity, you'll fight to maintain the habit. You know, like you take pride in size your biceps, you'd never skip arm day at the gym. If you take pride in how your hair looks, you have this long hair care routine. You do it every day. And so ultimately, I think that's

what habits can get you. They can give you this pathway to reshaping your story and to giving you confidence in being that kind of person. I wonder if one of the struggles that I see, especially with women is a lot of the examples that we that we see when it comes to conversations like this, even from this place of, let's start from a place of identity, right, are fairly tangible things. They're often visible types of things. And so I just want to also kind of expand this idea that we can become like a habit that I personally have developed and didn't even realize that's fully what was happening, but it's because I said to myself, I want to be a self-compassionate person. I want to be someone who is actively kind to myself on a daily basis.

And so there are habits of catching thought patterns. There are processes that I've shared on my podcast about how to pivot. it around obstacles. You know, like we're going to get hit with things all the time. And a lot of my people, the people who listen to this are like me. They work. They have jobs and they have kids and they're sort of managing all of these different things. And it is, it is often hard. It's, you know, it's kind of it's a, it's a bit of a stereotype at this point. But, you know, that the, that women are like, they put themselves last because there are all these other people to take care of on all these other things to take care of. And I want to just sort of offer to, you know, to, you know, to,

too, that like this idea of moving from identity-based habits, moving from identity outward, can be about things like that, can be about things like self-compassion. They can be about things like, I want to be a person who is content with my day as much as I can in this moment. And from there, I can begin to see, like you, there's a quote in your book, you say, peace occurs when you don't turn your observations into problems. And I think that is so wide. but I do think that there is, there is an element of permission that sometimes what we want to develop a habit in is something that is not easily measured in the way that most people are talking about habits.

And so there's a gift in being able to say, I'm going to be a self-compassionate person. I'm going to be a person who is content. I'm going to be a person who tries to stay calm amidst all the chaos of my life. And building habits to support that kind of person is just as valuable. as, you know, your biceps or your hair, your business. Once you start to understand this concept, you see it in a lot of different ways, you know, so obviously, like you said, it can show up in a lot of the physical ways, tangible ways. But there are also things like identities

or aspects of your identity that are like, I'm the type of person who finishes what they start. Or I'm the type of person who praises the people on my team. I'm the type of person who shows up on time, you know, And like, these are all other less tangible aspects of your identity that you can focus on. Their identity can be a tricky thing, too, because there are also a lot of stories that can hold us back. And these often tend to be intangible. So, like, I have a sweet tooth. I'm bad at math.

I'm terrible at remembering directions. I'm not good at remembering people's names. You know, like these are all stories that we tell ourselves about what we're good at and what we're not. and certainly we all have different strengths of weaknesses. So it's not that everybody has the same abilities. But believing something about yourself does not guarantee success. It does not guarantee that it will be true. But not believing it is almost always enough to prevent it from happening. So you usually talk yourself out of it before the world prevents you from doing it.

And so a lot of this is in a way there is the adopting of new habits and the casting. of votes for your desired identity and trying to ask like, you know, what are my actions reinforcing? What are my habits building and promoting? So there's that part of it. And then there's also the progress requires unlearning, you know, it like requires you to upgrade and expand your identity to possibly find versions of your current identity or elements of your current story that are no longer serving you that maybe you need to let go of. So you can work on it from both ends. And I sort of view identity as like a painting that's constantly being retouched. You know, you're sort of endlessly just editing little bits and pieces of it and trying to create a slightly more beautiful picture in the result.

As opposed to putting a puzzle together. Or like something that has to be cut out wholesale, you know, like or torn apart. Right. So it's, yeah, it's just a, it's an evolution, not, you know, a zero or a one thing. You're just constantly working on it. Which you, you mentioned that in atomic habits as well. this idea that, and you opened, you opened our conversation with us too, that we see a habit is something we're going to do literally every single day until we die. You know, it's just,

it is a, once you're on the road, you're not getting off the road and that there's no movement or fluidity. And you say something like, really, it's just do it the majority of the time. You know, like we're all going to miss these things, but to to approach it with, you know, kind of an open-handedness. There's a commitment to that. There's a commitment to wanting to be the type of person that we want to be in the world based on what matters to us and different things matter to different people, right? But that there is a there's an open-handedness to if I miss this, it's not that I am suddenly a person who doesn't follow through. It's that there was something about today. There was something about the season of life.

There was something out of my control. And that is why I think looking at this through the lens of, you know, habits can be a way to care for ourselves as opposed to as a way to control our life. You know, that it really is more about nurturing. That's how it helps me to see it. It's more about nurturing this person that I want to be as opposed to trying to control. Like you said, make it a painting. It's not a cutout. There's there's adjustments every single day based on all of these things that are happening in our lives. I mean, it's definitely about consistency, not perfection. Right. And so I like 70 to 90% consistently, probably, depending on the tasks that we're talking about. But, you know, if you do something eight or nine out of ten times that you're hoping to do it, that's pretty good. And you're probably going to be making progress.

There's, I think most people, I'm definitely included in this, are probably about half as consistent as they think they are. Like, they probably eat healthy about half the time they think they do. They probably work out about half as many times as they think they do. If you actually track everything that's going on. But then you can also think of people on the other extreme who like they will, they will do anything to not miss. And I actually don't know that most people want to live their lives like that. Like to the difference between 90% consistency and like 99% consistency is actually a pretty

radical upheaval of your life. And you sacrifice a lot to get to that level. Now, sometimes you decide that that may be worth it for you in one or two categories of your life or perhaps if you're trying to literally, you know, compete in the Olympics or publish like the best selling book of the year or I don't know, whatever it is. Like maybe it's worth it to you to make that trade off. But most of the time and in most areas of life, it is not. And 80 or 90% is great. And so I think if you go in with that lens, you realize that there are many tradeoffs in life.

Sometimes your kids get sick or you have to do something for your parents or you need to travel for work or whatever it is. And every habit, every streak that you have is going to break at some point. There's going to be some interruption that life introduces. And the lesson of that is not to never have a break in the streak. The lesson is to have a plan for getting back on track quickly. And I think that is really one of the key elements in being consistent with your habits is having a good plan and a good strategy for getting back on track quickly. If the reclaiming of a habit is fast, the breaking of it doesn't matter that much. But you were talking about the 90 to 99% difference and not missing and how that is

much more extreme than people realize. I remember an example, and you've probably seen this too. Jerry Seinfeld has that, like an annual calendar. And he would say, I work on jokes every single day and I cross it off. And I never want to break the chain. I never want to break the chain. That is a huge commitment. That is a massive habit to never break the chain on working on your comedy.

But that's also why he's Jerry Seinfeld. He wanted to be one of the most known and named comedians of a generation. And he is. But at the cost of, by choice, by choice. And it's neutral. It's morally neutral. But yet you can't be Jerry Seinfeld and also be Jerry Seinfeld at all of these other things, right? That there's going to be a tradeoff.

There's going to be a sacrifice if you're saying, I want to do this 99%. And yet I think a lot of us expect that it's not. 99% or zero. And having that wider chasm of, yeah, we're just trying to, like you said, we're just casting a vote for this person that we would really like to be, continue to be and continue to nurture. It does offer a lot more freedom in that. You don't have to be Jerry Seinfeld at your thing. Like you don't have to. It's okay. Unless you want to, unless that matters to you. but it doesn't have to matter to you. Aw isn't something we need to travel for.

It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art. I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Can I ask you, Perhaps it's a bit of a curveball question, but I want to ask you about your career because you have done something that I have literally never seen another author do. And that is you have a global phenomenon of a book. What is it, 15 million copies at this point, I think, something like that. And I mean, it feels like the New York Times, it's just, the New York Times just has like a room ready for you all the time. You just never, it's the, it's just fantastic.

And unless my Google searches are just broken, you haven't written anything since Atomic Habits. You have stayed in this path, which is completely counterintuitive to what other authors have done and would be encouraged to do. I've just always been fascinated by your choice to not write another book again. Here's the thing, James. So this whole context, this whole podcast, what I do is you are a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't to you, that we all get to make different choices based on what matters to us. And sometimes the choices that we make appear to be to others who don't have the full picture, they appear to be like, well, why would you make

that choice? Why would you do that when this seems like the obvious path for you or this seems like what it should matter to you? And so that commitment to whatever your own choices are, where it's like, I like the life I have here, I'm content with this or whatever the case may be, it is something that is just not often done. And I just find that really inspiring, honestly. I found it really inspiring. Thank you. There are probably there are multiple answers or multiple pieces of the answer. So the first thing is I identify more as an entrepreneur than as an author. I kind of have to identify as an author now because I have the book. But I have always thought of myself more as an entrepreneur. And one of the questions that I like to ask myself is whenever I'm thinking about

doing a new project, whether it's a book or something else in the business. The first question is, how do I want to spend my days? And then inside of that box, inside of that definition, how can I reach the most people, make the biggest impact, make the most money, whatever, all the things that people usually optimize for. But not outside of that box. And I think a lot of the time, it's very easy to look at some thing that you're chasing, whatever it is, and get wrapped up in that outcome and say, oh, I want that. And then you start walking down the path and you realize, I'm not spending my time the way that I want to spend it.

And so I try to be really careful about that and make sure that I'm spending my days the way I want to be spending them. So that's one piece. The second thing is my way of writing is kind of slow and painful and arduous. I don't know any writers that are like, oh, I write so easily. I think that's a common thing. But there are a lot of writers who publish books more, more ratchewish. than I do. I mean, atomic habits, depending on how you measure it, took at least three years, probably more like five or six years to write. And so, you know, it's been, I published it five years ago,

but it's, and, you know, I'm starting to get to the point where it's getting, it's been getting on a little bit. Like, yeah, I could, I could be due for a new book here soon. But that's also about how long it took me to write the first one. The second thing is, uh, I am not going to write a book just because I could get a book deal. I'm only going to write it if I feel like I really have something to say. And listen, everybody listening to this, that is almost an unheard of answer in the industry. The fact that you want to write something that is actually valuable, that is good enough and impactful enough to sell 15 million copies and to still be relevant five years later, I just hope you realize, like, what, how subversive that is in this industry.

it's it's really something there you do see a lot of it you know first book goes well and so then immediately try to sign a huge second book deal or third book deal or whatever um my thinking is always like usually if you look at those authors and the book that does really well it's almost always the product of this huge process beforehand you know like most of the time it took them at least three to 10 years of work for that big book to cut and then they sign a deal and come out with another one in a year and a half or two years. And it's like, okay, look, if the first one took 10 and the second one took two, you didn't get five times smarter.

So the like something has to give. And it's almost always the quality. And I think that would just really bother me if the quality was not. I have no way of predicting how my work is going to land with people. You know, like you just do the best you can and you hope that it resonates and that it goes well. But I think I would, it would bother me if I, if I didn't give my best try at making sure that the quality was as good in the next one as it wasn't the first one. So anyway, so all of that is part of the answer.

Another part of the answer is, look, the reality is atomic habits is still selling very well. And so that makes it easier for me to be like, there is this line in business and sales where it's like, if something is working, you should keep doing it and still it stops working. And so it's like, well, if it is still working, maybe I should keep doing it. So there's part of that. And then, and then I think the final piece is atomic habits was the product of in a lot of ways, like a lifetime of work and thinking, you know, these are all the best ideas I could come up with. And I need some time to think about what my next best ideas will be and what that topic will be. I feel like I have written my habits book.

I don't have like a, I have some things. You know, if you ask me, I have a couple things that I would add to the book now. but I don't have a whole second book worth of material. And so I'm not just going to keep writing books about habits. It'll be about something else, maybe something that plays nicely with habits or that is adjacent to that. But it'll be, yeah, it'll be a new topic. And it just takes a little while for that, for that to happen.

I think my strategy as a writer is that I'm really good at creating a lot of trash. And then I filter very tightly. So, you know, people are like, I can't believe how many great ideas in our atomic habits. So I'm like, well, you never say that if you saw how many ideas I had to come up with. You know, like I generate a thousand ideas, cut 975 of them. And then I publish the 25 that are good and like, look at how easy this looks, you know. So that's it just takes a little while to generate that much material. I love what you said about.

It's it's how you think about how you want to spend your days. Like what is the meaning of your life? How do you want to spend your time? And if you want to spend it where there are that you're not. forcing in time with your kids or being able to work out as often as, because you're an athlete. You have like an actual athletic career. So this is something that really matters to you. I know that from your website, I know that photography and travel photography in particular matters to you. So that means that you want time to be able to go places, to experience new places

and take photos of them, all of that. So it's so, it's just such a lovely piece of permission. to begin with what matters to you in the season of life that you're in, how is it that you want to spend your time? And the choices that you make, the behaviors that come out of that, if those behaviors don't support that initial question, you are going to end up overwhelmed and harried and looking back like, how did I get here? I feel so tired. I feel so whatever. So the fact that you are someone who speaks in this space, in this kind of time management, self-help space and you are walking this walk of, I value what my life looks like for me. I value that for me. It's just something that I is like a strange little piece of inspiration that I pull from you

outside of your actual teaching. It's, it's just really something cool. And so I'm glad I thank you for letting me ask you a rather weird question. You know, there's kind of, there are a couple things that sort of come out of that. The first is what you're optimizing for or how you want to spend your days is going to change over time. So I feel like that's a question that just has to be revisited. You know, what I'm optimizing for today is very different than what I was optimizing for 10 years ago. So there is no single answer to it. It's important to just keep coming back to it and then making adjustments as needed.

And then the second thing is that if you were fortunate enough to already have your life, to already make enough money to provide for your lifestyle. And certainly not everybody's in that position, but many people, you know, are able to cover their needs and so on. To choose to make more money, but to live a worse daily life, I feel like it's a bad trade. But a lot of people make that trade all the time. You take the promotion so that you can get more money and then you end up hating how you're spending your time. And it's just a very, it's a very common thing that people talk themselves into, but I still, I kind of feel like it's a bad trade. I want to acknowledge as we end this episode that words matter.

Words in most cases are, you know, they're neutral. but words can hit us differently in certain seasons of life. One word that often hits me in a wonky way is the word optimize. Optimize. Optimize means to make the best or most effective use of a situation, an opportunity, or a resource. And sometimes making the best out of something, it does not align with what I need. Because my expectation of what best could mean is something I cannot reasonably achieve today. So I just want to note that some of you may feel the same way that I do about that word, or maybe even words that are similar. And even though James used that word a few times in contexts that are neutral and actually

align with what we talk about here in this space, you might be feeling a little bit weird about some of the things that he said because of your association with certain words, especially self-help words. That's why I started the conversation today. asking about the difference between habits and rhythms. And I interpreted his answer as they can be relatively interchangeable. Maybe a rhythm is a wider bucket, you know, like a broader category that holds habits, but really we can see them in similar ways with similar elasticity and compassion. Regardless, I hope that as you exist here in January, in this time of fresh starts and new habits

and annual goals, that you remember the season you are in, that you live where you are, that you start with kindness where you are. And if there is a habit, you know, a vote that you want to cast in the direction of a particular aspect of your life or your way of being in the world, that you cast it, but not before you name what matters. Not before you acknowledge your season. Not before you remember the value of starting small. start on the foundation of what matters in this season. And I think you'll find that developing a habit

in a direction that matters to you, it will feel valuable instead of something else to manage. And that's it for today. A quick heads up in two weeks on January 22nd. There will not be a lazy genius episode on Monday. I repeat on January 22nd. There will not be a lazy genius episode on that Monday. We are taking the week off, which we have not done in literal years. We do take time off as a business, but we bank episodes ahead of time. So this is the first missed Monday in quite a while, but we have an internal transition happening that actually prevents us from putting an episode out that week. So just be prepared that on the 22nd, there is no lazy genius podcast, but we'll be back on the 29th with some really great stuff. All right, y'all, that's it for today.

Thanks so much for listening. And until next time, be a genius about the things. things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra, and I'll see you next week. You ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that. More dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life, because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to becoming you wherever you get your podcasts.