The Lazy Genius Podcast - BONUS: A New Way to Think About Money with Rachel Rodgers

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

The Lazy Genius Podcast is not an interview-style show, so when I invite a guest on, I make sure they are a Lazy Genius at what they do. I’m thrilled to introduce you to Rachel Rodgers, a former attorney and current founder and operator of Hello Seven, who’s here to talk to us about a new way to think about money. Helpful Companion Links Find Rachel on Instagram and learn more about her book We Should All Be Millionaires here. Here’s an older episode about budgets This podcast is hosted by Kendra Adachi and executive produced by Kendra Adachi, Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, you're listening to the Lazy Genius Podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi, and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. Today is like icing. It's a bonus episode. I love bonus episodes. So a few times a year, I talk with people who are lazy geniuses at what they do. And Rachel Rogers is definitely that. So Rachel is a former attorney and she is now the current founder and operator of Hello 7, which is a company on a mission. to simply help women make more money. She just released her book. We should all be millionaires. I loved it so much. And in this episode, Rachel and I talk about money, about the mindset that women generally have around money and how we can begin to shift that.

We talk about how women feel like they have to sacrifice everything for everyone else, but like we can't accept help or pay for help for anyone else about anything. We also talk about how white women can be financial and social allies to marginalized communities, even around money. Rachel is so fun, she is the best laugh, and she is a real genius on how to think about money. Now, remember that nothing in this podcast is meant to be prescriptive like ever in any episode. You always decide what matters to you.

And I hope that in my conversation with Rachel, you'll have some light bulb moments of what does matter to you. So here's my conversation with Rachel Rogers. We'll do the whole pretend like we haven't been talking. The best. You got love it. It's so good. Okay. Rachel, I'm so happy to have you here. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. And we are in the same, we are in the same area of the state. It's very, neighbors, but I've never met. It's so fun. We'll have to hang out. Like, we'll have to get coffee. It's going to be magical. I'm so excited to have a local friend. It's so rare. It is so very rare. So this is just the best. Well, you, I finished your book. two days ago and I was just like how many people is too many people to buy this for

that that makes me so happy to hear this this book we should all be millionaires by Rachel Rogers and I I just want to thank you for the reframe that you're giving women around money and wealth and we're going to we're going to talk about those things but I just I was like deeply grateful to you at the end and throughout I was just like, this is like such a kind, but also like, let's do this. Like it was like, it's hard to marry kindness and empower empowerment in the same voice. And you just do that so very well in this book. It just made me so happy.

So anyway. That means the world to me. Thank you so much for saying that. Especially like another author. Like you know what it takes to write a book. It's hard. It's hard. And sometimes, I mean, I had the existential crisis where I like talk to my agents and I was like,

I think I need to edit the entire book. And it was like already, you know, being like set in the type form or whatever that in book form. And I'm like, I need to rework the whole thing. And she's like, we're not doing that. We can't do that. We can't do that. I'm like, I don't think the voice is good enough. This isn't good enough. And she's like, actually, it's brilliant. It's really. It's so good. I will, I will affirm. I will affirm that statement. It is. It's so, so good. It's so good. Well, what's, okay, so in the books, you share a lot of data, a lot of stats about the history of women and money. And it blew my mind that women, women have not been able to, like, do significant things with or for their money without the co-signing of a man, except in the last like 50 years. I was like, I'm sorry, what is this? It just blew my mind. And then the idea of that, you know, girls are more taught to, like, save and like, how to, of scrimp and stuff and boys are taught to invest. And there's so much data about that. And so I think, and then you throw in like the cultural idea of, you know, the assumption that women are

the ones who take care of the household. So it made, it makes a lot of sense. You laid the ground beautifully where it's like, this is why this is hard, guys. Like this is why this is a, this is a complicated thing because we as women have really not been given any tools or permission to have money, to want money, to spend the money in ourselves. It's really complicated. And in the book, you actually talk about what you call million dollar lies, which are things that keep us stuck in our heads about how we feel about money. And so I would love for you to just share one or two of those that you think have us believing the wrong thing and what we could be believing instead. Yeah. Like this idea that we're not good with money, right? We have this idea. A lot of us as women,

especially women of color, probably even more so. And really anybody who's from like a systemically marginalized community, right? You have this belief that you're not good with money, but really, actually, it's political. It's that the government had laws in place that prevented you from even having money, owning property for many, I mean, hundreds of years. This is all very new women having money

and women being able to control their own money and control their own property. All of that is so fresh, you know, women being millionaires, There are very few women billionaires. Not that I'm into billionaire life. I don't think I'll ever be a billionaire because I'll give it all the way before I ever reach that point. But, you know, that's the reality that we're living in.

And we think that we're not good with money. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. This is a skill. You're not born with it. But you can absolutely acquire it. You have the ability. And even though it could be the other women in your life or your mother didn't teach you because she couldn't even have a credit card.

This is like these laws have changed so recently that our mothers and our grandmothers didn't have this opportunity. And that's what I'm saying to women is like, let's take advantage. We have the ability to earn. We have the internet. There are tools available and money is a tool. Let's use it to increase our earning potential significantly and make magical things happen. And here's the, if we take that all the way through, right, women become millionaires.

And then what happens? At every income level, women give more of their money away to charity than men significantly more. I'm not talking about 5% or 10%. I'm talking like 20 and 30% more. So like women just naturally have that desire. And like as a collective, we take care of our community. We take care of ourselves, our children, and our greater community. So when we make more, it literally makes the world a better place.

And the interview's over. And we're done. It's like that's the thing. Isn't it? Like that's the thing. It's just so like, right. We, because I, you wrote that in the book. It's like you have this expectation that you're born.

good at this. Yes. You're born knowing how to do this. And it's like no one, I don't, I still don't know what escrow is. I still don't know what that means. Right. And that's, that's okay. If I need to know, I, again, I have the internet and it's all fine. But these are acquired skills. These are things that we can learn. And, and to give up on our ability to do that because we think, well, someone else will take care of it. Some, you know, I. And they won't. And they won't. They won't take care of it. And here's the thing. The media messages that we are, So like we have to counteract not only the laws that the government has passed. And even when laws are changed, right, custom changes slowly.

My operations director for my company right now, she used to work at a bank and she used to be the one, you know, sitting in the room with all the older white men who are like approving loans or not. And she's like, they are absolutely racist. They are absolutely sexist. Like I could tell you for sure I was in the room listening to them, make these choices and not give loans to people of color and to women. right? So like all of that like systemic issue is true. And then we're getting media messages all the time. You're a shopaholic, stop buying lattes, cut some coupons, right? Whereas men are told, you know, like take risks and go after more and like become, you know, more powerful. And we get the opposite message. So we have to overcome all of that. And that's why I think community is such a big piece of this. Like being in community with other people who understand the importance of building wealth and making more money and. where you feel supported in your pursuit so that you can, that's what counteracts. When you're surrounded with other people who are doing the same thing, it counteracts all of the

noise and all of the messages you're receiving out in the world. So good. So in the book, there was something you said, I'm going to read, I'm going to read your own words. Don't you love it when people do that? You say, wait, can I, before you do that, can I tell you? The very first podcast I was on, somebody read like the first couple paragraphs of the book to me. And I just started sobbing like a baby. and could not control myself.

And I was like, I am mortified right now. I don't even know why I'm crying. I have to pull it together. I love it. It's my favorite thing would people cry unexpectedly? I don't know. It's just like it's so vulnerable and beautiful. It's just the best for me.

It's the best for me to watch, but probably for the person who's on the mic, we're like, I'm so sorry. Give me just a minute. And there was video and my face. I was like, I could not get my face to stop making the ugly cry face. Oh my God.

I love it. Oh my gosh. Well, maybe we'll see if this happens. It's, it's only a sentence. So maybe it won't be enough. But no, so in the book, we should all be millionaires. You say, when we allow other people's desire to take precedence over our own, it creates a situation like the one we have today where many women have no idea what they actually want. Aw, isn't something we need to travel for. It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of all. I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life. You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts. And so, okay, so that really spoke to me because in this, in this space, in this lazy genius space, everything starts with naming what matters. If you don't know what matters to you, then you don't have a good starting

place to know where to be lazy and let things go and then where to be a genius and live the life that you want on purpose. And a lot of the women listening to this podcast, they don't know what they want, which is common and it is normal and it is nothing to be ashamed of. And so I love how you talk about how that is not really women's fault. You talk about in your book, a sociologist named Susan Walzer, I think that's how you say her name, who did like research on how women, even if they don't do every single bit of the household work. They do all the thinking about it. They use so much energy thinking about how to manage their house and the people in the

calendar and the toilet paper. And remembering that the kids need to go to the doctor for the checkup. All the things. And as I was processing that energy that we as women spend, I started to think about not just like the gender pay gap or gender equality gap, like all these different things, but a gender sacrifice gap kind of, it's supposedly okay. for women to make sacrifices for other people, right? To always put aside what they need to help someone else to stay up late or get up early

because that's the only thing to do. That's the only time to do anything for yourself. And that makes it so tired. But while we think it's okay for us to do that to constantly sacrifice ourselves for other people, we don't think it's okay for other people to sacrifice themselves for us. Like it's somehow okay for a stay-at-home mom of tiny people who works hard all day making snacks and playing blocks and all that stuff to when like her husband,

if she has a husband comes home to offer him like, hey, when you get home, like go go for a walk or go for a run before dinner or like we make these sacrifices, but we don't ask for the same in return. And so I just, I want to ask you because I know that this isn't exactly about money, but I feel like it's all super connected. Like how can we do? What is something that we can do to change our thinking around that sacrifice gap because so much of the sacrifices that we are making, we could pay someone else to do them. 100%. So like how do we, can you tell us something we can do to hold that, please?

Yes. Just real quick. Just like one thing. Let's just solve this problem real quick in the next five minutes. No, it's so real. And it starts, like you said, with our own thinking and our own belief. and I just reject this entire idea and I invite other women to participate

in this rejection of the idea that nothing can happen in our household unless we're doing it and unless we're sacrificing for it. And I think the thing that really shifted for me in my brain was that I have a daughter and she's watching everything I do. I know that for a fact because

I mean, she's like mini me. And I do not want her to grow up and think that she has to sacrifice all of her desires for all the other people in her life. Yeah. And if she watches me do that day in and day out, guess what she's going to do? Exactly that. And so I want to see, I want her to see her mother having a career and not feeling shame or guilt because I want to work. I explain to her, I want to work. I enjoy working. It makes me happy. I'm able to help other people. And I love and enjoy spending time with you as well. And that's a priority too. And like, it can all happen. Right.

Like it can all happen. And you know, we have a. nice life. And in order to have this nice life, right, you have to sacrifice too. Like, we're all sorry. I'm working right now. And that means you got to entertain yourself for a little while until I'm done with work. And then when I'm done with work, we're going to do whatever you want. And I'll be 100% focused on you because you know what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to go make dinner because I paid somebody else to do that. So now I can sit there and just literally look into your eyes and we can talk about whatever you want. We can do whatever you want. Right. And so, you know, I just imagine a different way of being. Right. And imagine a way where you can model

for your children what you want them to have for themselves. Do you want your children to sacrifice everything that they want in life for other people? Or do you want them to be able to live their best life and have their desires, decide what to be a genius about and what to be lazy about, right? Yeah. You want them to be able to make those choices. So you have to model yourself making those choices for them because that's the only way they're going to learn. If you tell them one thing but do another, they're going to do the thing you're doing, not the thing you're saying. Yeah. So I think that that is so crucial and literally make them a part of the conversation. Right. Like this is not something where you just work and they don't understand and it's fine. No, you can explain it to them. Listen, mommy wants to go bake right now or mommy wants to go for a run right now or mommy wants to go sit in the hot shower for an hour and stare at the walls right now. Do not interrupt. I'm locking the door. How did you know that that's the thing that I wanted to do? This morning. I was in the shower. I was like, I'm done. But like, I'm not ready to get out yet. It's nice in here. Exactly. Exactly. Listen, this is our quiet time. It's the only place that people

will truly leave us alone. Maybe even there barely. I know, but still it's close. My children pop up in the shower on a regular basis. However, you know, I want them to be part of the equation and part of the conversation and I want them to understand my thinking, the thinking behind the decisions I'm making. And I have boundaries. And I mean, I told my daughter, I repeated this to her the other day. I don't owe you every second of my life because I gave birth to you. Like, I love you. You are a top priority in my life, pretty much almost everything that I do in my life is like for your benefit. I'm working for your benefit, you know, as well as my own. However, I do not owe you every Iota, every second of my life. I don't. And I need you to know that. And I like, I want to be crystal

clear. You know what I mean? And I hope she repeats that to her spouse and her children, you know, and her boss and whoever else in her life when she gets older, you know, and my sons as well, because I don't want them growing up thinking, first of all, that a woman is here to do things for you because, honey, no. Okay? I would be the first one to straighten you out. So I don't want them thinking that. And I want them to also prioritize their own desires, right? I don't want them to grow up being men thinking, well, I got to be the breadwinner and I got to do this for my family. Forget all of those roles. What do you actually want? And how can you create a life where you have that? You know? Yeah. So, and of course, we have a household where, you know, I was the breadwinner for a long time. We're constantly challenging. challenging what society says in our own household. And I think that that is really important to show our children they can create whatever it is that they want. And you know, there's there's such a generosity in how you talk about this. Because I think that a lot of people, especially with this audience, what I know of this audience, that there is a lot of shame around money because there are so many mixed messages about what it's good for, what is.

It's what it, like where it causes you to stumble, so to speak, and that it's selfish. It's the root of all evil, like all these things. But what it is is the love of money, like saying to the people listening who know that. It's not that money is the root of all evil. It's the pursuit of money at the expense of everyone and everything else that is. It's greed. That's what it is. And that's why I just, that's why I was like, how many people can I give this book to?

because there was such a generosity of spirit, not just in how you teach about how to think about money and your work and your vocation and your legacy and all these things. But it was also deeply generous in when women, it's like you said in the beginning, when women have money, they spend it differently than men do.

And the more we have women have money, the better it is for everyone. And so I actually, the way that I found, you. I don't know if you know this or not. But the way I found you was about a year ago. And it was when you hosted the small business town hall challenging and calling business owners accountable to having anti-racist businesses. And I thought, and I, you know, I like many other people, many other white people have been on a massive, massively hard and beautiful and embarrassing

it sometimes unpacking, unpacking of all of these things that I did not know were part of how I go about my day. I just didn't see it, which is, which is not an excuse and is also what is so sad about all these things. And so I was like, this has to change. I, and I'm going to be able, I'm going to do what I feel like I'm able to do, which is I'm going to learn from people who are generously willing to call me on these things and teach me how to do them. And so I went to this, I went to this town hall that you led. It was so good. And, um, And I was just really moved by your spirit of welcoming and generosity as like just towards humanity and calling us all into this place of like, we want to do better not just for ourselves,

but for each other. Like that is what is so beautiful about women having money is that we do better for others. And so I just want to ask you just kind of as we as we close. like how can't because this audience is mostly white it is a predominantly white audience listening and i i would love to hear from you if you have a thought on how white women when it comes to money not just how we can be allies in this further um movement of systemic change and justice but like is there a way that we can specifically be financial allies for communities of color for people of color like what can we do is there anything that we could do and just how we see things and talk about things that can lift everyone up

in the in the conversation around money. I think there's a lot of things that are so performative. And I always have to ask myself, like, I always want to be just being honest and I don't want to perform for anyone. You know, I want to not care what other people think and actually care about the result, right? More than what does it look like, you know? And so I think it's really important, you know, to actually, when you are allying, is the thing that you're doing, is it touching and impacting black and brown people in a positive way? You know, like, what is it actually doing for them? Is it a tangible benefit, you know, for them? Like, I've heard about, you know, there's this whole conversation about digital blackface and using gifts with black people, especially that have negative stereotypes of black people.

And I've called some people out for this. And, you know, it upsets me. And I'm not saying like, you know, we all use gifts or whatever. And that's just one example. And somebody said, well, I use gifts of black people because, you know, it's representation. Like I want people to see like themselves represented in what I'm sharing digitally. I'm like, does that help us as black and brown people? Does it actually tangibly benefit us for you to like use a black gift?

Right. Like not really, right? But you know what is, especially. if you're a small business owner or even if not right like even with your personal life how can you be with your purchasing choices how can you be investing in black communities right like if you have a business hire black people paid them well right um if you're sending gifts to friends how can you choose toys that are created by black creators choose software you know there's um you know like scheduling software that is created by black man right like how can you choose that one instead of

the other ones, right? How can you, in your daily choices that you're making every day, be contributing to black and brown communities, putting money in their households? It doesn't always have to come in the form of charity. Charity is beautiful. Love that. And the other thing, too, is like, if somebody's asking you to speak, could you say, hey, I know somebody else who's a genius on this topic and it's a person of color and I think you need to have them speak instead, right? That's an opportunity. I'm not saying you need to give away all of your opportunities, but maybe if that one doesn't work for you, or if you're like, hey, there's nothing but white people speaking,

I don't want to be another white person speaking. Why don't you speak to this person? She's brilliant and she speaks on the same topic. I highly recommend you go hire her, you know? Those are those. So there's lots of opportunities like that where you can tangibly be impacting black and brown communities with just the daily choices you're making.

And then the other thing is, is like, people always ask, well, how do I find diverse team members and how do I hire diverse people? And I'm like, well, do you have diversity in your real life, like in your personal life? Like make friends with the black people at your kids daycare, right? Like, and invite them over or create a play date, right? Like get to know people who are different from you in your regular life in all forms of diversity. Like go hang out with the queer couple and like let your toddler play with their toddler, right?

Like find ways to open yourself up because I think that's how we get back to humanity. when we fight over these like ideas and these big picture things and these politics or whatever online. But the reality is these are just humans, right? So like how can we get back to the humanity in each other? And I think we behave differently when we're face to face with another human who has the same fears and stresses and challenges in life that we do and we can so relate to them and there are so much more we have in common than we don't. Right. Now, I mean, to be clear, there is a limit to that, right? If your humanity requires you to hate my existence, that's different. No, I'm not going to play with you. My kids are not going to play with you. That's different.

However, I think it's important that we open ourselves up to people who are different from us so that we can get to know other people, actually have black friends, actually have, you know, a different community that we're, a diverse community that we're in every day because that's, it changes our perspective. Like, my best friend is a black gay man and I learn so much from him. and I have like such a close view of his experience as a black queer person, right? And it really helps me to recognize where I need to step my game up and like support the causes that really affect him, you know? And I just think that we need more of that, more, more of those opportunities to be in

community together and support one another. And really just listen to the people who are different from us and hear what they're saying and not have to have our point of view taken, not have to layer on our opinion like just hear them and sit with it. Mm-hmm. And then there's like, you know, we'll be done. But like the book you guys, when you were talking about the lattes, like the, we get these ideas of like stop buying your latte's women.

That's how you'll save money. And you're like, or what if you like took what you're good at and what you're passionate about? And you like made something or offered something that would. make you a lot more money than that latte and also allow you to hire somebody to help you do your laundry or you can pay an accountant so that you don't have to spend the entire week in doing your taxes and you get to go to that soccer game for your kids and like there is no shame in not just having help but also that that is giving jobs to people. That is being in proximity to people that are different than you possibly.

Like all the, it's just, it's like the most beautifully obvious thing that we still somehow haven't let sunk in yet. Exactly. And so your book is just like the, it's just the primer of like, okay, guys, let's, we're starting over. Let's think about this. Let's try. Let's try this differently.

Let's try this again. Yes. So I'm just so, I am so glad that we got to do this. And I can't wait for us to like connect in person. That's going to be a great thing. You guys, Rachel Rogers, we should all be millionaires. Go get this book. Rachel, thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you guys so much for listening. Isn't Rachel so great? I'm such a fan. You can find Rachel on Instagram at Rach Rogers ESQ. That's Rogers with a DG and not just a G, by the way. You can learn more about her business Hello7 at Hello7.co. And if you go to Hello7.co slash book, you can find more information. about her new book, we should all be millionaires. As always, everything will be linked in the show notes.

And also, as always, thank you so much for listening. I'm just so grateful for each and every one of you. I hope you have a great weekend. And until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra, and I'll see you on Monday. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch.

I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.