Bonus: How to Transition Your Routine From One Season to Another with Ashley Brown
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00:56Save the Everyday with AmazonHey there, you are listening to the Lazy Genius Podcast.I'm Kendra Adachi and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't.Today is a very special bonus episode with routine expert and overall fabulous human, Ashley Brown.Ashley is the author of the Routine Building Handbook and is on Instagram at Routine and Things.And she and I have a conversation that is perfect for this time of year.how to transition your routines from one season into another. Ashley is no nonsense, so kind, so funny,and I think you're really going to love hearing from her. Enjoy. Hi, Ashley. Welcome to the Lazy Genius podcast.
01:42Oh, thank you, Kendra. Thank you for having me. I'm super duper excited. I'm so glad. Why did I alsosing that? Why do we do that? I do that with stuff all the time. I'm just like, and here we go.We have to add excitement and things.Yes.You're sing-songy voices.It's fine.Okay.So you guys,
02:02Ashley is the author of the routine building handbook.We have a routine expert in the house today.It's very exciting.I want us to talk about how we can take this like end of July,sort of end of summer energy and not look so far ahead into the fall that we miss wherewe are, right?Because we want to be present with whatever it is we're doing.And also there might be some things that we can start.
02:25doing now, all of the magic question. What can I do now to make transitioning into the falleasier later? And maybe one of those answers could be building a certain kind of routine. So I'm soexcited to talk to you about this. The first thing we should probably nail down, though,this is a very simple question, but also like a really important one is like what exactlyis a routine, maybe the difference between like a routine and a habit, because that's two differentthings, right? Yeah. But the big, the big idea here, for those who are familiar with the lazygenius sort of idea about routines, is that it's not really so much the like, I do this and then thisand then this and then this, right? It is, where do you want to go? How do you want to feel? What is sort of the
03:14the end result that you're looking at? And in your book, you talk about that. You talk about whenyou're building a routine, you want to begin with the end.right? So can you just share like from your own perspective like why it is important to begin withthe end and then how that changes our relationship with the particulars of the routine?Yes. First of all, let me just say just the definition of a routine. And this is not,this is like standard Google and that's like a series of actions done regularly is a routine.Okay. And that's very different than a habit. A habit is something you don't really have to thinkabout it just comes and you don't have much thought to it. A routine isn't that. Like you still have to
03:57think about it when you're doing your routine. So that's the difference. Now, yes, starting with theend in mind is always the first thing. How do you know, like how do you know you're going to gethow to get somewhere if you don't know where you're going? Like that's the big thing here. And like,I'm always, anytime I'm making a decision, especially about routines, I'm like, well, why do I need thisroutine. What is it going to do for me? What do I want it to do for me? And that can be a tangible thing,you know, like your morning routine. You could be like, okay, I want to be able to get ready in 25minutes and like flat. Or that can be an intangible thing, like a feeling. Like I want to feelenergized in my morning. What outcome do you want from your routine? Because that's going to decide
04:43what steps you put in place, right? So if you are wanting to feel energizing your morning,what's going to help you feel energized?Maybe for you it's coffee.I know it's for me, right?Maybe for you it's coffee.Maybe for you is moving your body in some type of way.Maybe for you is scrolling on Instagram.I mean, no judgment here, right?
05:05What's going to give you energy if that's the outcome you're looking for?And so definitely the particulars definitely change when it comes to your routine,depending on the outcome you're looking today.When you're talking about the morning routine,me think about, I did an episode ages ago about a morning routine. And my personal end goal of amorning routine is to slowly build up my energy for the day, like slowly enter the day,which is why I'm like, I am not going to do like, you know, body pump. It's six in the morning.That does not fit what I want. It's not that that's a bad choice. It's not that even moving my
05:45But it's like my choice would be I might like sit still and meditate versus if you do want tostart your morning like let's just hit energy like, you know, full throttle as I get out of bed,then body pump is a great, that's a great thing for you.But you're right.Like we don't know.We don't know where we're going.We don't know what to do unless we know where we're going.And it's such a simple, that's such a simple perspective that we all intellectually and intuitively
06:13know.but we can sew in the weeds of living life that we're like, oh, wait, that's why that's not working.I don't want to feel super energized or I don't want to like be zen. I need to like get going.I got too much to do or whatever it is. So I love that. Thank you. Oh, thank you. You are speakingmy language about the morning routine because that was my outcome too, Kendra was I want to ease intomy morning. Like I'm not a typical like, yeah, I can get up, but it takes me a while to really wake up.Now, I may be up, but I'm not awake.Right.
06:44That's a good difference.I like that different.So, and what's so great is that if you know the end, you can accomplish that end or you canexperience, maybe accomplish.Accomplish can be like a tricky word for some people because it's too like binary.Like I checked it off and we're done.And it's, you know, it's rooted in your value and all these things that we're trying to like getaway from.
07:06But like if you want to experience this thing and you have say four or five.elements to that routine to experience that thing, you can actually focus on the experienceand maybe be like, oh, I don't have time for the full get up today.I'm going to do one thing, but that thing is still taking me where I want to go.Like, I'm still thinking about that thing.So it's like it releases the pressure to be all or nothing with the routine where you haveto do like all five things or it doesn't count.Like that's not how it works.
07:39Oh, my gosh.your face, you're like, you're like so happy. Oh my gosh. How many times have I heard from women?I primarily work with women. How many times have I heard? Oh, well, how many steps should be in myroutine? And do I have to do the entire routine all the time? And I'm like, girl, is yourroutine? No. Like where, like you said, where are you trying to go? What feeling do you want? Whatwhat do you want this outcome to be? And no, every day, if you don't get to your entire.routine, who cares? Like, I mean, like, this is your life. What do you need to do for your life? And if doingone step of your routine gets you to that outcome like you said, you did it, girl, you did the
08:25badgone thing. Like, yes. Yes. Yes. As we say around here, and many people say, you're doinggreat. You're doing great. Yeah, it's so good. Okay. So I want to talk about the,kind of this specific time of year that we're in. So on page 50 of your book, the routine buildinghandbook, you shared, you share a bunch of frequently asked questions and their answers,which I think is just so helpful because you're like, I got you. I know what you're wondering.I'm going to go ahead and answer this for you. One of those questions is, what are the signsthat you may need a new routine? And you share three possible answers. One, that you are in a lifetransition, two, that your life or your home feels chaotic or off balance, and three, that you
09:09have set a new goal. Well, the end of the summer, it definitely captures those first two things,right, that you're in a life transition and that things, I just feel like, I feel like summer justbrings chaos just by nature. It's a very sort of welcome kind of chaos in many ways,but it's still chaos. And you're like, I don't want to keep this as we, there's a differentkind of chaos when the fall comes when school starts or whatever it is. So what I would love to hearfrom you is like how, what are some things that we can do now? How can we imagine question us?What are some things that we can do now at the end of July, at the end of the summer to makekind of easing into those fall routines easier later? How can we set ourselves up so that we are
09:53a little bit more prepared for that seasonal transition, but we're not so focused on the futurethat we're not experiencing where we are.Yeah, yeah.Because the summer, like you said,it is kind of chaos.It's welcome chaos, like you said, but it is.I know I get a lot more relaxed in the summerthan in the fall.
10:15And so what I can share with you isit can be really helpful to start to reincorporateyour routines back in.And it doesn't have to be routines.it can be reincorporating a routine back in so that you're not kickstarting all of your routinesat the same time when the fall actually sets in.So if you want, you can think about small ways you can do this.And it doesn't even have to be the entire routine.
10:48It might be a part of the routine.So for example, meal planning.If you haven't been meal planning this summer, you've been more relaxed.You're like, you know, we're going to figure it out as it comes.Fine.We don't want to have that in the fall, man.I'm telling you.It's like kids being these activities, work picks up, so on and so forth.
11:08And so meal planning, starting to incorporate meal planning back into your life now,a few weeks before things kick off can do you so much good when it comes to getting backinto school and back into work really heavily.So that's one way.Also, maybe it's like you've been going to bed super late.You know, in the summer, sometimes we can get thrown off.we'd be going to bed around midnight, even our kids,we're like, hold on. Why does kids still up at this time?
11:34Ashley, last night, last night.Now, we, at the time that we're recording this,summer is like in the very beginning.And my kids have like two days of school left, okay?Last night, I went out on the porch to take a phone call from a friend.It was 9 o'clock.My boys go to bed at like 9.30, okay, on a school night.And during summer, it's like, it keeps creeping up to 10, right?
11:54I come back inside getting off the phone.It's almost 10 o'clock.my husband had fallen asleep on the couch and my boys were just playing video games.That was like, it's a school night.Like, what is it?We had already just been like, I mean, it's fine.Whatever.Right.
12:11You just love your life, man.So like once you're like deep into the summer, you're right.Like it just, which is, I think it's really important to say you talk about this in your book a lot.I talk about this in my book a lot.Like there is such a deep, beautiful value in living in your season.And sometimes like actual calendar seasons, the summer has a lot of things that are annoying about it,but a lot of really beautiful things.Like we like, well, some people like the ease of it, like the relaxation and the, you know,
12:42that you don't plan dinner as much and you're more loose about like bedtimes and stuff.Like it's just, it's got such a great chill energy.But like you said, that does not exist in the fall.Like that cannot happen.It's like, I love that. I love that thought of like, I'm going to let you finish. I'm sorry, I'm going to let you finish now. You were talking about going to bed, like, but that's a, it's, it's not that going to bed later or not meal planning or doing the things that we do in the summer. It's not that those choices are bad choices. Those are seasonal choices. And you're about to move into a new season. So now we have to start thinking about making, making different choices. Exactly. Right. Like I'm all for, like I'm, I'm doing the same thing. Like, okay, might not be meal planning. Definitely going to bed later.that's fine for now, but it ain't going to be fine when these kids get back into school,like not at all. So how can you then if you're going to bed late, what steps can you takein order to get back to a time that's reasonable? And that can be in increments, right?
13:43Like working backwards in increments, like 15 minutes every two days. We're going to get tobed 15 minutes earlier until we work back to the point where is that a reasonable bedtime.So it's like these little steps you can take. It doesn't have to be.anything grand because you still want to enjoy your summer. You still want to be able to get thattime with your family where y'all and like just be able to soak up this sun still and all of thatjazz. But if you can put, if you can like reincorporate your routines little by little,that's going to be really, really helpful. And don't wait to the last minute to get everything forschool. Like that be, my gosh, I'm telling you, Kendra, this was my first year, actually.
14:27You're farther along in the game than me.But this was my first year doing like back to school prep.Oh, I made a whole bunch of mistakes.And I was like, it's not pleasant.I was like, wait, hold on.Like, we need to get this.And I waited to the last minute.And that's not usually my style, but I did.
14:46And I was like, never again, never again.I'm going to get little things like little by little.Yeah.We'll be right back.Aw, isn't something we need to travel for.It's something.for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art.I'm Dr. Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast.
15:12Join me for Cities of Aw, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder,and enhance the quality of public life.You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts.I think that when you were talking about, you know, starting, essentially to start small, right?To start small with like adding, adding things in a little bit,bit of a time. And even that, I mean, this is a, this is an audience that tends, their default isall or nothing, which I think that's, that's the case for a lot of us, right? It's like, I have toget it perfectly. I have to get perfect or it's just, we might as well quit. It's that lazy side
15:53or genius side. And there is something in us when it comes to small steps and time management,that what we do is it's like we see the next, you know, month, let's say, before like school startsand, you know, you see this like big stretch of time in front of you. And it's like we're trying toput the same outfit or the same contraption or the same machine or the same single thing on thatwhole stretch of time and automate it perfectly because it feels like, um, like we're in morecontrol if we like, okay, this is how we're going to do these days and this is how we're going to dothis and like we try to create the whole thing. Even for people who are like, no, no, no, we don't makebig machines anymore. We're lazy geniuses. We start small. There is still this like energy in us.
16:39It's like, I have to figure it all out. I have to have everything written down. I have to haveeverything in a certain order or it's not going to work. And I think that what we're both sayinghere is that like, you can make a decision in the moment to be like, you know what? I'm going tochoose what we're eating this morning instead of at five. We're going to do that today because I'm going towant to do that more in a month or so. So we're just going to do that today. Like it doesn't have to belike super organized or even written down or plan. I mean, sometimes that can be helpful, but that's nota requirement for it. I just want there to be like so much more elasticity to how we experience that.That it's like every day is not going to be the same. And one, you know, big machine choice is not going to
17:26adequately apply to the rest of the summer. Like, I just want everybody to just like,take a deep breath, just to relax about this. Like, you're doing great. You're going to be fine.It's also kind of an unreasonable expectation for us to think that our lives are going to beseamless with no friction ever forever. You know, like, things are going to happen. I've talked aboutthat in a lot of recent episodes, actually. It's like our hope is that we're making a thing a little biteasier. Like that's it. Exactly. So it is. Just one a thing at a time. That's all we're doing.Yes. And that that is very hard. Like I'm definitely like a recovering perfectionist andoverachiever over here. So it can be hard, but I've learned from like stumbling and falling down
18:16so many times. Girl, take a dag on chill peel. Like you got to relax a little bit. I learned thatfor my husband. I learned that as being a nurse. Like you have to sometimes make decisions in a momentrather than planning out every detail of your life. That is not, to me, that is not healthy.Planning out every single detail because you send yourself into a whirlwind when it doesn't cometo fruition, when it doesn't happen as you thought it would happen. Yes, do I love to plan? Yes.What else do I know about my plan? That plan can get thrown out the window in a hot second. I also know that.aware of that. So I'm okay with it being thrown out of the window and me being like,ooh, I have to make a quick decision right now. Or let me just redo this plan really quick for
19:02the day, not for the entire week, just for today. Let me redo it. So it can be hard, but I thinkif we realize that it being all planned out isn't what's right. It's a thing that we can do,but it's not the right thing to do.It's about you, how you flow, your natural tendencies,what you need for your life at any given moment.And it's okay for plans to change.Oh my gosh.Yes.
19:33Yeah.It feels like, I mean, really what we're sort of talking about is trust, right?That you're trusting that in the moment you can make a decision.And that we also can trust that there's more than one decision for any situation too.There's not one right decision for very few things have like a definitive single decision.And so, you know, just that's why I actually really love that the word elasticity came to mind.It's like, we're just like we're moving and stretching and we're going to be in different shapes,but like it's, we're still us.
20:08Like we still have the same components and we're still the same person, but we can trust that we can like,we can do this.We can transition through this.or we can feel overwhelmed and not lose our minds.Or we can see, you know, a certain kind of overwhelm and go, you know what?I think that I might be able to make this decision.Maybe add this to an existing routine, which I want to talk about existing routines in just a second.But like maybe I can add this one step here.
20:35That might make this a little easier.Let's give it a try.As opposed to everyone, attention, family meeting.Like, this is what we're doing now.Like, it doesn't have to be so intense.And I say that to myself because I am like always intense.Always.So it doesn't, we can trust ourselves with those choices.
20:56And I think that that is sort of where you were, that's a version of where you were goingwhere it's like it's not even good for us or right for us to plan out every singlething because it takes us out of the situation.It like makes everything about control than about trust.And that's not who we want to be anyway, right?Exactly. Oh my gosh, Kendra, that's beautiful. I love that you brought up trust because trust is a huge thing. Trust just intertwines with our life and how we move. And I think if we can build that self-trust and we don't feel like we have to be dependent on a plan, dependent on a list. It's like if I get to it, I'll get to it. If it's important enough, I'll get back to it. It's not that it's what are you doing in your routine or in this planning or whatever it is. It's where are you going.what are you wanting to experience? What are you wanting to feel? Who are you wanting to be? And so you can make alist, but I think we know the difference. I think list makers unite over here. It's like if I know when I'm
21:57making a list and I'm trying to grasp for control as much as possible versus, oh, my brain is like socrazy right now. I need to do a dump. I need a brain dump this all out so that it has, it's got aplace now. And then I can just like move on with my life and be present. You know, like there's a differentenergy in that. So it's not so much about like, do you make a list or not make a list? Do you have thisparticular routine with these particular steps or not? It's about the end. It's about the end and howyou're wanting to feel. It's about the experience or the feeling or the consequence or whatever. SoI want to, I love, you talk about the difference between restrictive actions and flexible actions.And I loved this so much in your book when you're talking about developing a routine. So can you just
22:40share the difference between restrictive actions and flexible actions? Andmaybe give us some examples as people are thinking about this.Yes. So when you're building your routine, you do have options.You can either keep your actions restrictive.You can have them to be flexible.You can have a combination of both.It's up to you, right?Because for some of us, we're going to need more restrictive actions based upon who we are,
23:01what we need in our life for others.We need more flexibility.And so a restrictive action is like a fixed action, like something that's not easilychanged. An example of this is read book. That's a fixed action. Read a book. Now, you can choose what bookyou read, but you're still reading the book, right? Really fixed. Or you can have a flexible action.And this flexible action means that it can be easily changed. An example of this is read.That's it. Right. Right. Right. So.So you can read a magazine, you can read a book, you can read a caption on Instagram.
23:49Read is read.That's a flexible action.And so some other example, which is, I say this because like I said, for each of us,we are all different.And some of us in certain seasons need restrictive actions.And some of us need flexible actions.and when we make, when we're in a season where maybe we do need more flexibility or where we as a person, our natural tendency is to be spontaneous and not so planned out, right?We need that flexible action.
24:23And so, and another example would be, let's say you're a morning routine.You want your, a restrictive action in a morning routine would be do yoga.All right.Yoga.That's all you're doing in your morning routine, right?Or you can make that flexible and just say move my body.And so you can choose what you want to do.And really it's all about is your action very specific or is it more broad?
24:49And that can be really helpful depending on your season of life.I love the differentiation of those two.And I really love that you can have.It's not that like one like even in my own head, I was like, oh,flexible actions are so much more positive than restrictive.restrictive ones. No, they're not. They both count. You can have both together in the sameroutine, depending on your season of life, like to name that sometimes what matters is a lot morestructure, is a lot more direction in some choice that we are making because you know that if you
25:21give yourself more or maybe even someone in your family, like if you give a lot of leeway,actually what's going to happen is nothing. Because what you need is the specificity, right? Like if I say,to my kid, clean your room. Like that, you could say that that's restrictive, that's not flexible,but actually in his mind, that is flexible because what is clean mean to him? Whereas if I'm like,restrictive action, put away seven things. You know, like, no, he needs that. He needs it to berestrictive in that way. And we all need certain things like that. So I just, I hope that that that,I know that people listening, like that's such a beautiful lens, a beautiful tool to think,like, oh, maybe the reason I'm not doing this is because what I chose already is too restrictive.
26:10Or maybe the reason I'm doing this is because I'm giving myself too many choices and I need toadd some restriction.So that's so good.And we adjust those things as our season of life comes in, which leads me to my last questionas we come to a close is that, you know, I feel like a big part of this space is, you know,I want people to feel empowered.to make practical choices that work for them. And, you know, we're not like, we have to get things done.We got to be people, you know, just to be like, you're doing great and then not give any tools
26:45is an incomplete message, right? But we also need permission. That's a huge part of this community,is just to give people permission and what you're doing to do what makes sense for you. And so just fromyour own, you know, just from your own voice, like what is a piece of permission, maybe specifically,we are moving again from this end of summer into the fall.Like what is a piece of permission that you would like to offer the folks listening asthey think about this routine building process?That's so good, Kendra.I would say the piece of permission I want to give you as you transition into the fall
27:25is to take it step by step.And I know we talked about that little by little though.like it's okay to do things little by little.It's you're not a bad person because you're not doing everything to the T and crossing all the T's and doting all the eyes.And it's okay to chip away at your to do list little by little.It's okay to get back into routine, the fall routine, little by little.don't overwhelm yourself with thinking it has to look a certain way when you jump back into the fall it doesn'tthink about what you need like we've been talking about the entire episode think about what outcome
28:15you want to have for transitioning back into the fall what steps can get you there so that's thepermission that I give you that's so good I love that you just said don't overwhelm yourselflike we do that so so easily oh yeah easily i was just like thank you for telling me thatashley i needed to be reminded to not overwhelm myself because it's so i mean i think that's that's athing that's so important is like we just think we think everybody else has stuff figured outwe think everybody else knows what what they're doing that everyone else's life is just likerunning on autopilot and we're the ones that are flailing and it's just not true like it's i'mI think that more important than even some of the tools and like specific things that we've
29:02talked about today, I think that the thing that can actually carry you and help you continueto feel more like yourself are those broader intangible things like trust, like going slowand starting small and little by little and relaxing about it and remembering that like we'renot trying to make everything together and perfect and just like I just think about we whatwe want is to press a button and for everything to just roll. And we think that other people are doing that.We think that that's how other people are living their lives because it's like we're,it's like a confirmation bias. We're sort of looking for it when we are observing other people.And it's like, well, they have that figured out. And they're doing that this way. And she seems
29:46really calm. And we're on the inside, I think we're all like kind of freaking out. And so maybethe goal here and routines can sort of help do this from the outside end. But really the goal herewith all of this is to think about like how can we rest on the inside here. How can we relax on theinside, trust ourselves with what's going on. We are capable and competent in making thesedecisions one at a time. Nothing is going to explode because we haven't figured out our morningroutine yet or our kids are like tired going to school those first few days. Like you're going to,it's not going to be seamless or automated. Nothing is really ever. So just to sort of have thatexpectation, not in a, not in like a, well, ho-hum, I guess that's how it is, not in a like a
30:33defeatist way, but just in a very human, like this is what we're all doing. This is what we're alldoing. We're all experiencing this. And the more that we can model that for other people andfor ourselves, where we're just like relaxed and we're good with, not just settling okay with,we're good and happy with little by little. And we're not going to overwhelm ourselves with this.It doesn't do any good.It doesn't do any good.So I love that phrasing.Don't overwhelm yourself.
31:00It's so good.Yes.Don't.Please take it easy.Everything you said was beautiful.I think that we have to really be easy on ourselves.Like, we put so much pressure on our own selves.And for what?
31:21Like, for, I mean, for what?Like, life is, man.Right there, everybody.Oh, my God. Life is, oh, man, life is short. Life is beautiful. Like, why are we putting our pressure on ourselves? Oh, my God. When I released the pressure from worrying about what my mother was going to say when she came over my house and dishes in the sink, honey, freedom. What my friend was going to say when it's toys on the floor, I don't give too sense. Like, this is my home. This is my life. What the teachers are going to say when I don't bring a dish to the class thing, I didn't have the time, sweetie. I'm sorry. Like,Right? Like the pressure of it has to be this way and I can't be human. No, we're human.Like we're not going to always have things in order. And that's the beauty about life too,because it's really you can discover a lot in not having things in order and you can learn so muchabout yourself in that. So good. It's so good. You guys, if you would, which not if you, I think
32:24because you want to get to know Ashley more and kind of learn from her. Can you tell everybody wherethey can find you or maybe the best place to start with your work? Yes. So you can follow me at Routineand Things on Instagram. That's where I hang out the most or visit our website, Routineand Things.com.I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for coming on. This was so great. Thank you, Kendra. This was awesome.Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Ashley. Remember you can findfind her on Instagram at Routine and Things. And I really hope that more than anything else we saidtoday that you walk away with a little more courage to trust yourself, to trust your abilityto pivot, to make decisions in the moment, to rely less on a mechanized routine and more on the
33:10humanity behind it. It was so great having Ashley and I hope you enjoyed this little bonus episode.Until next time, be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't.I'm Kendra and I'll see you on Monday.Have you ever felt like you were living just a bee or beef?plus life, it's so dangerous to live that, more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life, becausewhen you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it?I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not availableto me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to
33:57Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.
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