Bonus: Lazy Geniusing Teenagers with Kristen Howerton
00:00Hi there, you're listening to the Lazy Genius podcast. I'm Kendra Adachi and I'm here to help you be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't.Today is the third bonus episode in our mini series on lazy geniusing a certain topic with a certain expert in that topic.A month or so ago, I talked to Courtney Cleveland from all the best days about how to travel and do staycations like a lazy genius.A couple of weeks ago, I lazy genius dinner like all of dinner, you guys, we fixed dinner with Kate Strickler from now.Time Kitchen. And today we're going to lazy genius being a mom with Kristen Howardton,specifically the thought of being a mom of teenagers down the road. When I asked Kristen to have thisconversation with me, I did not realize that her new book, Rage Against the Machine, had come out.It had like just come out. Then I read it, since it's about learning to parent without perfection.
00:54And you guys, it is truly so good, which you'll be able to tell from this interview how much Iloved it. Kristen is such a great storyteller. So good. She's so funny, so vulnerable. And she's a lazygenius. There's even a chapter in her book that lists out the things that she's going to care about.Generally, I don't enjoy books on motherhood just because they feel too focused on enjoying everymoment without talking about the difficulty of being a mom. But Kristen talks about it all and so well.So in this episode, she gives some great knowledge on how our parenting now of small kids, the choices that wenow can translate later into parenting our kids as teenagers. And since she is a former marriage andfamily therapist, she really has such a good, like, educated perspective on what she's talking about.
01:42This might be one of my favorite conversations about parenting ever, not just in podcast world,but in life. Kristen is so great. You're going to love her. I can't wait for you to hear from her.So let's jump in. You guys are, so Kristen wrote a book that just came out like very recently called Rage Againstthe minivan.It is fire.It is so good.I'm just,and it's not flattery.
02:06I would not butter your toes for no reason.It is so good.I feel like what I love about it,my book and my like sort of way,the Lacey Genius way,is like a tool.It's a toolkit.You know,
02:17there's not a lot of story in it.It's a little bit more like,okay, so here's where we're going.And I feel like rage against the minivan is like,all right, guys,would you like a picture into what it means?to live this way where you choose your priorities and you focus on those things and you forgetabout the things that you don't really care about and you it's like would you like a beautiful
02:37picture of someone's like motherhood journey through that lens here's rage against the minivan likei had my hands in the air it was just like why is it so good it was so so good so um i wanted to askit it's wild how much overlap there is in our books there's a lot of overlap christmas i mean it'scool.I got to say in the same thing, you know, like.Like you have, well, I'll get to that because I wanted to ask you about like a wholechapter, but we'll get, we'll get to that.I wanted to ask you first, though, can you tell us one example of like how as a parent?
03:10Because most of my, a lot of my listeners are parents.And a lot of them have kids that are like mid, mid, little.There aren't a lot of big kid parents, right?Yeah.And in my audience.Okay.So, but I'm curious, like, what is a good example of when as a parent,try to be a genius about the wrong thing? Oh, boy. Many times. So many, many, many times.
03:38Well, there's a story I share in the book where I thought that I would, I thought that I was going tocombine like quality time with my kids and me getting exercise, right? And so I thought, oh, this isjust like a, you know, buy one, get one free. Like, I can get my exercise in and I can take the kidsfor a walk and I can take them to the beach. And I was like, we're going to do this. Like, I'm going tobe this breezy mom who exercises with her kids. And I tried it a few times. There was one time inparticular, the last time, where I loaded us up. I had at the time, at the time I had two kids.I would go on to have four children in the course of four years, which I don't know that I'drecommend.
04:27But at the time I had two, pack them into the stroller, sunblock them.I'm like, we're going to do this.We're going to be the family that exercises together.And I drive us to the mouth of a river jetty bike path that lands at the beach.So we've got to walk a mile to get to the beach.And they're in their strollers.and actually one child's in a stroller, the other child is on his bike.And as we're walking down this bike path, he's three.
04:57And as three-year-olds do, he decides to ride his bike through poop.Now, I also want to point out that there are not animals on this bike path.So I don't know.I don't know.Questionable origins.Poop of questionable origin.And it is cake deliver.his tires and I'm like I think we're going to have to go back to the car and his three-year-olds do
05:22you know fully melts down no I want to go to the beach I want to go to the beach so he's riding hisbike in front of me I'm in a stroller and poop is just kicking up from the back of his bike tiresit's like a frog or game where I'm trying to avoid poop and so anyway it was just and the wholethe whole situation was really bad we got to the beach the kids got in the water he and my son who'she ends up getting sand and his butt crack.So then he has to ride a mile back to the car, which is the only way back.And I'm like credit carding him on this bike path because he doesn't like, you know,the sandpaper butt feeling.
06:01And I was just like, you know, this is not, this is not genius.Like me thinking that I'm going to exercise.Like, no, I will exercise when my husband comes home and leave them, leave them at home.what a what a real story that is man because you're it's it's such a good it's such a good example becausebeing with your kids is something that matters to you yeah moving you know taking care of yourselfin whatever way that is which for this it was like moving your body being on the beach like all thethings that also matters but then sometimes we're like oh so rather than like setting aside timeon purpose for me as a mom I always have to be doing 17 things at one
06:48And that makes me so amazing.And then you're playing Frogger with the poop bike.And it's not amazing anymore.Don't you, do you find this to be true?Most of the times that we try to be genius and find that it, you know, blows up in our face is when we're trying to multitask.Exactly.When we layer things that do matter, but we do them at the same time, then nothing gets to matter because we don't get to spend.It's, yeah, exactly.
07:18It's such a, and it's chaos and it's more stressful than it needed to be.And listen, I still do this.I do this every day.Like, I am constantly tempted to try to figure out how to get two things done at once.Like, I don't know what is happening in my brain that that is a, well, in Eigram 3,but that is a constant temptation for me to just like, wait, I can, I can wrap this into this.Right.And then it doesn't work.
07:43And then it doesn't work.I feel like that's just, if whoever's listening to this.You guys, the thing that you walk away from, like, just stop doing two things at one time.I know.Like just give your attention to one thing.Let it matter.Care about it.And then say goodbye and move on to the next thing.
07:57And it's fine.It's really fine.I know.Good gracious.Well, the overlap of our books sort of like just blew my mind in the best way possible.When I got to the end, you have a chapter called opting in.Yeah.Where you basically list out everything.
08:13You're like, these are the things I'm going to care about guys.Yeah.And you give like examples of them.And it was, it was so good.I laughed and cried in the chapter.Like in the same.And it's like three pages.It's not even very long chapter.
08:26And the emotions that came out from reading it were so, so good.But like things like family dinners, developing trust, being non-judgmental.You, and the thing that's so great, like you talk about family dinners, well, here's what, here's what matters to most people who are parents, I would assume, is that you,do want to spend time with your kids. Yeah. And for you, family dinners is the place that you can dothat the most consistently for your own energy, for your family based on what you're saying. So it's,I think sometimes we get, when we're naming what matters, when we're naming our opt-in list orour genius list or whatever you want to call it, that we're like, oh, well, I want to spend timewith my kids. That matters. Well, then you end up again on the bike path with frog or poop. And it's like,
09:12no, you need to get specific. Like, what makes the most sense? Yeah. All that kind of state. So I wasjust wondering like what was the process of sort of naming what mattered like was it like a gradualrealization was it just a flag in the sand of like I've got too many things on my plate I'm going tolist these out and then start to you know what was what was the the journey of that a little bitof it was just pushing back against messaging that I was hearing which is very on brand for meand rage against you know it's like rage again it's just like don't come up with anythingon my own just be reactive to things I don't like. But, you know, I remember when my kids were young,I was getting all of these messages around be present with your kids. And I told the story in the book,
10:01too, there was a woman in our church who was a very kind of prominent woman in our church. And shespoke a lot. And she had this whole philosophy, like, you should never be on your computer when yourkids are awake. And she preached this.constantly. And then there was another, there was like, I remember this post that went viral thatwas this sanctimonious mom writing about a woman she saw at a park who was on her phone whileher daughter was doing cartwheels that she missed. And I remember just being like, who cares?Totally. I can't watch every cartwheel. Do you know how many cartwheels happen? I'll watch one,maybe three. I might film it. And then I'm going to go back to.
10:48what I'm doing. And so I think for me it was looking at looking at the time that I spend with mykids recognizing I can't be present all of the time. I have other things to do. And mothers havehad other things to do from the dawn of time. First we were hunting and gathering, then we werechurning butter. And today we are paying bills online. But mothers have things to do. We do.And so then I had to feel, I felt like I had to then define what does being present look like?Because I know for me, it couldn't be just being a butler, just standing there waiting for them to need me.I had to define what is being present look like because it matters.I totally want to be present for my kids, but recognizing I want to, I feel like we're all good if I'm present for like a cumulative hour a day.
11:45And then you need to have time to be bored or find other things to do.And that's okay.You know, and so then I just, from there, defining what are the times?What are the moments?Because not everything is a moment.So what are the moments where I can be present with my kids in meaningful ways?And that is such a, that is such a huge thing.I remember the first time I heard that of like, oh, you don't, you don't have to be present
12:10for every moment.Like if you miss moments, that doesn't make you a bad mom.Like you think you have a part in the book about where you compare like what it's like to have one kid or even two kids, but then when you get to three or four. And it's like a list of like what happened. And it's just so real and so fantastic. And I love it. But yeah, there's just there is so much pressure on capturing the moments. And I think one of the reasons that I am so excited to have you and to share your voice with my audience is because I have been such an admirer of how you approach your kids. And I've only been.admiring you really when you've had teenagers.You know, like that's when I came across you was when, because your kids are teenagers.And I was like, wait a minute, this is how I, this is how I want to be as a mom with my teenagers.And so it's just been so lovely.And I want to, I want to read, is it weird to read you from your own book?
13:01Can I do that?No.I'd rather listen to your voice read my book than my own voice.A part of being a good enough mom is letting my kids be good enough kids.It's allowing them to make their own mistakes.It's letting them fail instead of micromanaging their lives.It's about allowing them to face natural consequences instead of covering them in bubble wrap.It's about not requiring them to be perfect in terms of grades or sports or achievements.
13:29I want my kids to feel the freedom to excel at any of their passions, but I also want them to feel the freedom to be average.I'm trying to emphasize being overdoing.In a culture where we are constantly hearing you are made for more, I want to teach them you are.enough. One of the most impactful things that I had ever put on Instagram is I put a thing thatsays you don't have to have big dreams. Yeah. And there were so many people who were like,thank you for saying that. Because there's nothing wrong with having big dreams. There'snothing wrong with doing elf on the shelf. There's nothing wrong with doing any of the things thatanybody chooses. And that's why I love what you're sharing so much is because we are allowing our
14:08kids to be, if they, if they're prodigies, prodigies. This is the hardest word to say.the worst word. I'm so glad I don't think I wrote it in my book. Podagogy. The worst. It's the worst.But we, it's okay if they're average. It's okay for us to miss cartwheels. It's okay for us to takevideo of the cartwheels. It's, you know, there's, there's just not enough room for everybody tocare about what they want to care about. And you say that, you say this in the book too. You said,it cannot be over-emphasized in this culture of Mommy Wars. The things that are important to me may notbe the things that are important to you.Yeah.
14:43Which is so, so good.So how does that particular mindset?Like, this is important to me.This is not important to this other mom.I know how that can impact your relationship with other moms or your perception of other moms.How does that affect how you parent or how you see yourself as a mom, like your relationshipwith your kids or your relationship with yourself as a mom?I think I really wanted to make clear in the book that I was not judging moms who made other
15:08choices. But for me, I felt that pushing in too far from my family in intensity in any activityfelt out of balance for mental health. So like, for example, I have two boys that are into sportsand I got a lot of pressure from other moms who are sports moms. You know, you've got to get them on aclub team. You got to get them on a travel team. You got it. You got to do this. You got to do that.You got to, you know, at age 9, 10, sort of pay in both time and money to have this insurance policy to make sure that your kid can compete at the high school level and then maybe even go on to get a scholarship.And in my mind, I'm thinking, I don't want to give up my weekends and my evenings for a sport that they may or may not keep playing.Now, mind you, I'm not a huge sports person.And there may be another mom who says, I want to do that.
16:07And that's a fit for our family.And that's great.You know, and that's totally fine for them.But for me, I was like, I don't want to do this.I feel like it makes us crazy.And the irony is, one of them played basketball in eighth grade and then quit.He's not even playing it in high school now.Yeah.
16:25It's like, what if I had spent all that time and money and all of our weekends, you know,and missed all of the family birthday parties and, you know, eaten dinners on the side.lines of a game for for what to what it um but if families choose to do that that's okay um butwhere i have opted in and you know because i'm a musical person i came from a musical family is thatall my kids have to take music lessons like i'm totally that mom they don't have to be greatthey don't have to be can i say it prodigies um and in fact none of them are super great butthey all marginally know how to play guitar and marginally know how to play the drums and they canswitch instruments, but they have to be taking something because that's important to me.
17:12So I just think it's, but everything can't be important, you know?Right. Right.We have to pick and choose. And that's where we have to really be careful that we're not beingjudgmental of other moms who make different choices.The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen Tig one.Its sleek exterior makes a first impression you can't ignore.Step inside to find available full leather seats and wood accents.Under the hood, the available 201 turbocharged horsepower engine gives it a fun to drive edge.
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18:49and enhance the quality of public life.You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts.Right.Because we think that the choices that we make are right or wrong.Yes.Uh-huh.for ourselves and then sometimes we will continue that thread to the other people that we encounterof like, well, if they chose this, it's right or wrong. And we have to stop putting morality on those
19:14kinds of choices. Obviously, there are choices that you make that are moral ones. But for the sake oflike sports, you know, like going to sports camp or going to doing camp at all or getting a dogor not having a whatever it is. Like it doesn't matter. Those are not moral choices. Like those are not,those don't determine your value as a parent.and your kids value as kids or as humans.And so I think once we take the morality off of our own choices,it helps us to take it off of other people's.And then we all like make our choices.
19:44Like it's not there's not a right,there's not one right way to do this.Here's what I would love to ask is,what a great way to start a question.Here's what I would love to ask.I could just ask it.I'm thinking about asking it.I'm not sure.
19:57I'm not sure what I'm going to.But no, like I think the thing,that moms of young kids are really good at doing is looking ahead at when things will be different.Yeah.Okay, we're really good at doing that.And that's sort of a muscle that we develop.That's a practice.We're good at that.
20:19I'm asked,but I don't know that that's always,that doesn't always put me in a headspace that makes me the kind of mom that'scaring about the things that I want to care about.Sometimes it does, but sometimes it's like, this isn't, I don't, I don't want to do this.I don't want to not be here with them right now.And so my question to you is like if you could tell moms like me of, you know, younger kids,one practice, one muscle to develop, one thought to remember that will serve them well when their kids become older, when their kids are teenagers,
20:56sort of like that anchoring mantra that we can start practicing now.as moms of young kids.What would that be?I mean, I think one thing that has served me well is to constantly be considering what are thegifts of this age?You know, when my kids were small and man, the toddler years, I did not enjoy the toddler years.You know, I found it to be chaotic and crazy, but they're so cuddly then.And they're so inquisitive and they're so cute.
21:30And, you know, so I would just try to like enjoy those moments and remind myself like, well, this is fun at this stage.And then, you know, right now I have middle schoolers and there's a lot of drama and a lot of hormones and, you know, a lot of identity stuff happening.But they're also really fun to talk to.And they're in this middle stage where they kind of still like me, you know, but they're coming into their own.And so I just think trying to keep top of mind what the gifts are of each stage and what do you enjoy in each stage with your kids and then lean into that.Like right now my kids are great conversationalists, you know, and that was not true for many, many years.You know, they'll sit and talk about interesting things for a long time.And so I'm leaning into that, you know, if that and that's the point where all,
22:28I'll put everything down, right? So if they're all sitting on the couch, and it's never planned,you know, it's always organic and then they start talking about something, then I'll sit down and I'llsay, okay, everything I had planned for now is pushed to the side. I'm going to sit and havean interesting conversation with my middle schoolers because that's a gift of this period.Or, but when, you know, when they were younger, it was like, well, they'll still snuggle me.So I'll put everything aside while they'll still snuggle me because they won't always.And just trying to find what those gifts are of each age because there's also some really hard things about each age.And it's okay.
23:07I think it's really okay to also acknowledge that and hold that two things to be true.Right.Like I never loved when I would be approached in the grocery store by an older mom who would say like, you know, you're going to miss these years or, you know, you got to relish this while you can.And I'm like, what part of this tantrum in the middle of Target am I supposed to be relish?Like what part of my kid just dropped a glass product on the ground and there's a cleanup being called in this aisle.Am I supposed to relish?I think it's okay to also, you know, like simultaneously hold that there are gifts to each season and that also it kind of sucks.Sure.
23:46100%.And that's why one of the reasons I'm doing these sort of bonus episodes is because I'm wanting I'm wanting to talk to people who are living.using lazy genius principles and they might not have just named it that way, but that's happening.And this is like the exact act of living in your season. You're not saying like you need to embraceevery season and see all the positives all the time and not acknowledge. That's stupid. That's unrealistic.Like all the things. But if you- Well, that's that toxic positivity. Right. Right. Like every season's sofull of beauty. No. Like it's not. It really sucks changing diapers. Full stop.Full stop.
24:28No elaboration needed.Yeah.Like it's the worst.Right.But like you're saying, I love that thought of what does this particular age offer right now.Yeah.And not.And to them, to each other, to meet like as their mom.
24:44Like, I really love that because it's not diminishing or trying to erase the difficulty of whatever season you're in.Like you're saying, where that is toxic.But it is just choosing to see.both things and holding them both at the same time and not seeing that as anything but normal.Yep.Is there something that you observe that you sort of want to give permission to moms of young kidsto be like, stop doing this.You don't have to do this anymore.
25:14Well, I'm going to put my therapist hat on for one moment, which I rarely do.I'm so excited about that.I was a therapist for many, many years.And here's the thing that I see mothers do that I want to encourage that you step.out of is this sort of child-led parenting where we feel like we can't have boundaries for our kidsbecause we think it will stifle them or, you know, that it's going to ruin their self-esteemor I don't know what philosophy is behind it.But when I'm at the park and a mom is like, let's not like the royal we to discipline,
25:53let's not throw sand.Like, ma'am, your child is throwing sand.You're not.Children come out of the womb inherently selfish.We may not like to think that, but they do.You know, they're only concerned with their own needs.And then our job is for the next 18 years, getting them to look outside themselvesand consider themselves as a human being as a part of a larger society.
26:17And, you know, I just think a part of that is, you know, holding our kids accountable.to like, oh, you know, when you did that, you hurt someone else's feelings and then letting them sit in the conviction of that, right?And I just feel like I'm watching a lot of parents bubble wrap their kids in affirmation, which is important.Affirmation is so important.But then forgetting the part of like, hey, you're hurting someone else or your behavior is affecting another person in this way.and being able to just say that very directly.Because if you are, if you're putting in the time, if you're putting in the affirmation,if you're putting in the connection, if you're building that, then you can simultaneously say,
27:09hey, you know, at the park, I observed you being cruel to another child, not like,well, let's not be me, you know, like direct, like I observed you behaving in a way that wasn'tshowing compassion for someone else and now I feel sad about that and it bummed me out to watchthat. I just feel like I see a lot of moms scooting around talking directly to their kids abouttheir behavior in an effort to preserve their self-esteem, which that is not how we build self-esteemby never talking to our children directly about their behavior. We build self-esteem by looking atwho we are, strengths and weaknesses and then accepting all of it at once, right? I mean,we do that even as adults, too. I bet you were a really good therapist. That was really good.
28:02That was really, really good. And so simple in thought, perhaps not an execution, right? It'shard to remember those things in the moment. And that also is a muscle that we can develop.it's a practice that we can we can have of catching ourselves even just mentally noticing when we usethe royal we noticing when we're asking a kid um can you put your shoes away when you you're likeno what you're doing is telling them to put your like if they say no uh and you get upset with themthat's not fair like just be direct like that you know just put your shoes away please like we'reallowed to be in charge yeah um we're allowed to set boundaries like that's and they need boundarieskids need boundaries. It is confusing for children when we don't provide that scaffolding,
28:53scaffolding for them. You know, they will thrive better when they know what's expected and what'sallowed and not allowed. And I don't know, Kristen, and you, again, I don't have teenagers,but you tell me, I feel like that kind of relationship is a really hard one to have with your teenagersif you are bubble wrapping them as children. If you're not being direct and communicating with them askids and helping them take responsibility, seeing the responsibility that they need to take for things.Yeah.Because then they don't know how to communicate with you about what that is, right?Absolutely.
29:23Absolutely.And I think it's also impossible if we don't also model it.If we do not model personal responsibility, apologizing, vulnerability being the brokenpeople that we are, you know, sharing our foibles with our kids, I think when we model thatlevel of vulnerability and self-correction, that self-correction's okay. That messing up andowning it is okay. If I can model that, then I think my kids can move forward in that samebehavior. Yeah. If they've seen it. Yeah. What I, what I write, what you write, what a lot ofpeople who sort of have this idea of like, guys, let's focus on the on the right things here for
30:08ourselves or on the things that matter to us. Like, I love how. I love how. You know,books like ours are holding hands and kind of showing that this is not about one person sayingsome amazing sentence that everybody is going to follow. This is about a way of life that we'rereally just trying to draw attention to with different stories and different wordings and all of that.But this is a, this is not about you. This is not about me. This is about just sort of likebringing all of us collectively into this space of, hey, we can talk about this hard stuff.We can hold dissonant things at the same time. We cannot have it.answers. We can screw up. We can, like, we need to speak that into the world more. That those things
30:48are not just allowed and not just normal, but are like good and helpful and empowering and all ofthat. So I'm just like, I'm just so jazzed. You wrote this book and it's in the world. And all mysincerest congratulations to you for that. Thank you. Well, thanks for being here. Tell everybody the bestplace that they can find you. Yeah, you can find me online. I'm Kristen Howerton, just about everywhere.And then I have kind of a parenting humor platform that is at Rage Against the Minivan on Facebookand Twitter as well, or Facebook and Instagram, I should say. Too many things to keep up with.I know. Well, thank you for being here. You guys, I'll definitely put like those links and a link to the bookin the show notes and you can check out. And I appreciate you guys listening. Thank you, Kristen.
31:38Thanks.you guys thank you so much for listening to my conversation with Kristen.I hope that you enjoyed listening to it.We've so much to learn from her.You can find links to her book, Rage Against the Minivan, in the show notes,and also links on how to follow her on social media and stuff.You can also find a link there to my book, The Lazy Genius Way.Embrace What Matters, Ditch What Doesn't, and Get Stuff Done.
32:08It's a book that highlights 13 principles you can employ in any situation,in any combination to lazy genius, anything.It comes out August 11th,but if you pre-order the book before then, as a thank you,you get the entire lazy genius digital library for free.That is four digital resources on decluttering, meal planning,planning and surviving your holidays, and cleaning your house.Once you order the book from whatever online retailer
32:37or independent bookstore you choose,just go to the lazy genius collective.com slash book and put in your order information. Once you do that, you'll get an email with the entiredigital library, which normally altogether cross over $120, but is totally free as a thank you forpre-ordering the book. I appreciate all of you who have done that already. It means so much. And I can'twait for you guys to actually read the lazy genius way. I'm so excited. Okay, that's it for today. Until next time,be a genius about the things that matter and lazy about the things that don't. I'm Kendra and I'llSee you next week. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that.
33:37More dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life? Because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it.You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think,okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becomingourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.
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