The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 027: John Corcoran – How To Be As Charismatic As President Bill Clinton

Episode Date: June 12, 2015

Episode 027: John Corcoran – How To Be As Charismatic As President Bill Clinton John Corcoran is one of the most giving human beings I’ve ever met.  Prior to us recording this episode, John consistently went out of his way to introduce me to other inspiring leaders… Since we recorded he has introduced me to many more extremely intelligent learning leaders.  I am so grateful to John and so fortunate to call him a friend.  This was a fantastic episode where we covered a ton of topics ranging from hearing world leaders argue in the white house to the best way to tell someone thank you.  I promise you will get a lot out of this episode. John Corcoran has worked in Hollywood, written speeches for President Bill Clinton and lost his job when Arnold Schwarzenegger became the Governator. Even though he's lived in California most of his life, he is the world's worst surfer, although he does speak Valley Girl fluently. His day job is working with small business owners and entrepreneurs as a lawyer and business advisor. Episode 027: John Corcoran – How To Be As Charismatic As President Bill Clinton Subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher Radio. The Learning Leader Show “Do not underestimate the value of a small gesture.” Some Questions I Ask: How did you get the job in the Clinton White House? What did you learn the most from Bill Clinton? How do you sense the difference between a giver and a taker? Where does your ethic stem from? Why do we fail to implement after learning a great new idea? What impact did your Dad getting fired have on you? Which individual leader has had the most influence on you? In This Episode, You Will Learn: Why and how President Bill Clinton was so charismatic The importance of consistently making introductions What it means to give when you do not have any power Why Jayson Gaignard’s attention to detail is so powerful and inspiring Why humility is a key trait in a Learning Leader The elements that define a quality life  “Show me your friends, and I’ll show you your future.” – John Wooden Continue Learning Go To John’s website: http://smartbusinessrevolution.com/ Read Jayson Gaignard’s book: Mastermind Dinners   Follow John on Twitter: @JohnCorcoran You may also like these episodes: Episode 001: How To Become A Master Connector With Jayson Gaignard From MasterMind Talks Episode 002: How To Take Over And Set Bigger Goals With Chris Brogan Episode 004: How Todd Wagner (and Mark Cuban) Sold Broadcast.com To Yahoo! For $5.7 Billion Episode 010: Shane Snow – How To Accelerate Success Using Smart Cuts Did you enjoy the podcast? This was a jam packed episode full of great content.  Ben Greenfield is leader who is constantly learning in order to help us all live a better life. Who do you know that needs to hear this?  Send them to The Learning Leader Show! Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell   Bio From SmartBusinessRevolution.com    In John’s words: At 23 years old, I landed a job as a Writer in the Clinton White House. I didn’t go to an Ivy League School, come from a family of wealthy donors, or have any “insider connections” to land me the job. I got the job because I’m good at developing relationships with the right people. I’m good at getting to know VIPs and other successful leaders. I wasn’t always good at relationships.  In fact, I was pretty clueless about social cues when I was younger. I would come home from school in junior high and play video games for hours. It was pretty pathetic. Then my father got laid off. In fact, my Dad got laid off three separate times while I was growing up. Each time, we went from living a comfortable life to barely making ends meet. I desperately wanted him to call someone up and say “give me a job!” But he couldn’t, because he didn’t have the relationships. That experience taught me the importance of building and nurturing relationships with VIPs, top performers and other influential people who don’t just know you, but who like you and want to help you succeed.   Your Competitors Are Making More Money Than You Because They Have a Better Network Every year, tens of thousands of people lose their jobs. And thousands of small businesses go under. Far too often, people suffer because they don’t have the right relationships to help them get ahead. The business world is not a pure meritocracy. Getting an education, going to a good school, and getting a good job is not enough to cut it. Too many good businesses go under because their owners don’t create the right relationships. The people who are really successful – and who get the best rewards – reach the top because they actively seek out the right network.   A Powerful Personal Network Will Make the Difference Between Rich and Being Ignored I have used the same relationship strategies that got me a White House job again and again. In Hollywood. Working in the heart of Silicon Valley. And in starting and running my own boutique law firm that brings in over six figures of revenue each year. I’ve had the opportunity to meet (and work for) Presidents and famous CEOs. My writing has been featured in Forbes, Huffington Post, Art of Manliness, and on some of the most popular blogs and podcasts today. I’ve interviewed an incredible array of  successful entrepreneurs. I’ve gotten some incredible perks.   I don’t say these things to brag; I am saying all this to show you what is possible for you. I want to show you that you can use positive, “win-win” relationships to move forward in the business world. Even if you are shy, or introverted. Even if you hate marketing yourself. And even if the idea of “networking” makes you want to puke.    

What I try and tell people is don't be a giver out of a sense of charity. Be a giver because it's the best thing you can do for your business. It's the best thing you can do for your career. Just look at give and take. Adam Grant's phenomenal book, it breaks down the history behind it, and it demonstrates if you are a giver, and you don't allow takers that take advantage of you, but if you're a giver to other people,

you are far more likely to be successful than you are if you are a taker. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey, and welcome to The Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Tonight's guest, another really, really special one to me, somebody who's helped me so much as I got this podcast launched.

He's introduced me as many great, great people to be guests on the show. His name is John Corcoran. At the age of 23, he was hired to be a writer in the President Bill Clinton White House. Really, really impressive. His writing has also been featured in Forbes, Huffington Post, and many other great publications. He's absolutely a master connector and relationship builder. We talked a lot about that tonight. And also, one of the specific things he learned working for President Bill Clinton

and how he owned a room and the charisma that he led with. Also, keys to running a great meeting like Jason Gainerd for Mastermind Talks. We talked a lot about that. It was really, really interesting. And also the importance of being a giver, always looking to help others and how givers always succeed in the long run. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's John Corkrin. All right, John, appreciate having you here.

I like to know, though, what is your all-time favorite movie? All-time favorite movie, man, that's a tough one. Maybe Jaws. Really? Okay. I know you're a Spielberg guy. I'm a Spielberg guy. It's funny because my wife had never seen Jaws and a number of years ago.

And I even had it on DVD. And a number of years ago I was like, we're going to watch this. So we sit down and we watch it. And throughout the movie, she's like, cliche. Like, you know the shark's going to get her. And I was like, no, no, no, they invented the cliche. This is not the cliche. Other movies are the cliche.

So I think it's just a classic. I mean, it's just an excellent movie, but, you know, to today's day and age probably isn't. No, it is absolutely a classic. And I'm glad you went there because I had no idea what you were going to say was your answer. Because you can really go anywhere. And my favorite movie to respond is, and this might be kind of weird, too, is actually top gun. 1986 when it came out. I was five years old.

Yeah, five years old. So I don't remember even when I first saw the movie. I can, I still watch it when it comes on TV or even my iPad or something I'm watching on airplanes. They're like, top gun, really? That's kind of weird. But I love it, man. It's a great movie.

Mavric and Goose. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Slider, all of it. So, but anyway, John, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And you've already been a big help to me.

And I know you don't even realize it in introducing me to others. And as I told you before in the pre-interview, the, you know, when I initially sent you the cold email to ask you to be a part of the show. you were obviously incredibly busy, but instead of just saying no, I'll do it later, you said, hang on a second, let me introduce you to Jordan Harbinger and then Jordan can come on your show. And that happened. And we've already recorded and released that episode and it was a phenomenal one. And that's 100% because of you.

So thank you so much for being such a giver, as Adam Grant would say. Yeah. And I'm a big fan of Adam Grant's work. And yeah, you're welcome. No, I love matching people together. And oftentimes it creates great synergy. So, you know, if it's going to take a few seconds, and I've worked it out in my systems, I use Contactually, it's my CRM program of choice that allows me to send introductions in like 15 seconds. And so, you know, I encourage many people to do it because it's not much skin off your back, but the opportunities it creates for your recipients could be phenomenal.

What's the name of that tool? It's called Contactually. It's only a couple years old. It's kind of a startup in the CRM space, so it's chance for customer relationship management. It's basically a tool for managing all your relationships, which, as you know, are incredibly important. And so, you know, it helps you keep track of all these different communications that we're having across different platforms, across, you know, email, across text message, across the phone. And it keeps track of all that in one place. So that's what I use.

How much time would you say per day is spent doing doing work like that, introducing people to each other and helping others out? You know, what's more important than the amount of time that you spend is just doing it consistently. Yeah. You know, you can set a goal for yourself. It could be like three introductions a week or it could be one introduction a week. It doesn't need to be that many. But, you know, you have to be open to it and you have to be aware of it and be thinking about, you know, the different opportunities that come out there. And, you know, a lot of times it's someone like yourself who's recently started a podcast and maybe they contact me to be a guest and I'm busy, you know, you can't do it right away.

So then, but I know that there's someone else who might be a good fit for it. And so that doesn't take much for me to do that, you know, or it could be other opportunities. It could be just two people who I know are working in similar spaces, and I feel like there could be synergy between them. So I just introduced them and say, look, you two should maybe have like a 10-minute phone call and see if there's some synergy between you. And it's amazing. I get emails from people where people email me and say, hey, man, I want to let you know that introduction you did two months ago. I just made $10,000 off of that introduction that you made. And it's like, great, you know, beers are on you know.

Wow, that's awesome. That's really cool. So your story is incredible. And part of, you know, the goal of my show here at the Learning Leader Show is to record episodes with people who can provide education, entertainment, and inspiring stories. Those are the main three things I like people have. And you certainly have all of those. And so at the age of 23, you land a job. as a writer in the in the in the bill clinton white house president bill clinton white house i saw

that and i'm like wow i need to learn more about that i think that's such an interesting tidbit it's one to get that job at all and two to get that job at the age of 23 so could you could you dive in a little bit about more about how you got that job and how it was doing the job sure yeah and before i get to the actual getting of the job i want to say that there's going to be some people listening to this who say, oh, you know, that's out of reach to me. And I think that's completely false. I came from a humble family. I was not well-connected, middle-class family. My dad actually lost his job three separate times when I was growing up, and we really struggled for months at a time where we had to really cut back. And I, you know, I'm not the brightest person in

the world. I mean, I've completed a lot of schooling, but I actually failed kindergarten. Who fails kindergarten, right? How do you do that? I don't know, like really coloring outside of the lines apparently I was not coloring inside the line. So I had to do kindergarten twice. And then I didn't go to any Ivy League school or anything like that. I went to a school that would probably be considered a party school, UC Santa Barbara, go gauchos. And, you know, and then in spite of that, I managed to get a job at the White House. How did I do it? Well, really, what first, I interned at the White House, but that doesn't get you in either. It opens a door, but it doesn't mean that you're going to get a job there. In fact, a lot of interns want to get a job there, but they don't manage to. But

what did I do? I kept in touch. I kept in touch and I provided value to the other speech writers. So, of course, you got to do a good job. You got to do a good job when you get that opening, which I did. I worked really hard as an intern. And then I went back to graduate from college. And I actually was working in the entertainment industry prior to when I was trying to get a job at the White House. And while I was doing that, I was keeping in touch with the speech writers. And so what does that mean? Well, what I was doing was I was providing resources to them. So I knew, you know, if you're a speechwriter, you need a constant source of quotes and anecdotes and articles and stories and other speeches for inspiration. And so I would just continually provide that to the speechwriters.

I didn't ping them on a weekly basis saying, hey, have you heard of a job for me yet? But when it came time, when an opportunity came along, they thought of me. I was one of the people that they thought of because I'd continued to provide that value to people. And yes, it takes time and it takes effort and takes energy, but, you know, it's a lot better than sending out resumes to jobs post things you see on Craigslist or Monster, and it's a lot more effective. And a lot of times jobs like this, the one that I got at the White House, are not going to be on Craigslist. They're not going to be on Monster.

You're going to hear about them from a connection. So those are the things that I did in order to get in the door. It really, it wasn't because I was a lot smarter than everyone else. It was because I tried harder. I consistently provided value and I maintained those relationships. So you get the job. and what's that job like? I mean, what are you doing on a day-to-day basis?

I'm very curious about that. Yeah, so it was a writing job. So it was very, you know, it could be very solitary, except when you're working with other people to find, you know, find the information that you needed. And it was, we were writing everything, basically, I joke that the speech writers didn't want to write. So we were writing video scripts and proclamations and messages

and letters to VIPs, like, you know, members of Congress or governors or celebrities or something like that. And we were either learning about things we needed to write about or we were writing things, writing different documents, or we were editing work that we'd already written. And it was amazing being surrounded by other people. Whenever you can surround yourself with smart people, it's an experience in itself.

So the other people that I worked with were incredibly smart. and that was great in Excel in itself. And, you know, I just tried to absorb it. And it was the kind of crazy place to work where you'd have these bizarre experiences. So literally it's like I would go to the bathroom or something like that. You'd walk down the hallway to go to the bathroom. And then I'd be stopped by the Secret Service

because the president's going to be coming through. And this is inside the building, you know. They'd stop and say, okay, the president's to be coming through. And then he'd come out and be talking to some other world leader, like the Premier of China or something, like that. And there were times when I had to go to the bathroom and they'd stop you. And then the two of them would be engaging in like a heated discussion, you know, just like 50 feet away. And I'd be sitting here, be like, this is so bizarre at 23 years old to be walking down the hall to go to the bathroom.

And then here's the leader of the free world having this heated discussion, no cameras or anywhere near there. You know, this heated discussion while about 50 different security people and AIDS, stand around kind of awkwardly while they finish their discussion. So just, you know, kind of bizarre in that regard. Wow, what a job. How long do you do that for? Almost two years, a little under two years. Okay.

So, you know, and President Clinton is notorious and famous for being a guy who just completely captures the attention of people that he's in his surroundings and the room he's in. He's known to be a guy with phenomenal listening skills, eye contact, all of those things. What did you, well, I know you've written about this. I've read it on your website and your blog, but what did you learn most from the way he developed relationships with people? Yeah, and I think you hit on it. One is he absolutely, when you're talking to him, he was solely focused on you. And so often we lose that with people these days. You know, people are distracted. We have so many different distractions. We have our phone that's just a host of different distractions.

Or we're thinking about who's the next person we can talk to. And Bill Clinton was notoriously late to everything because he wanted to give of his time to so many people. And so like he would run into people. It didn't matter who they were. It didn't matter the level of importance. he would stop and talk to a woman on the street for 45 minutes, if he could, listening to her problems, seeing how he could help. And he had, you know, they're called body guys who would be walking behind him that are just kind of like helping him with anything he needs. And it could be, you know, getting someone's information.

It could be getting a book to be signed later or whatever. And these guys had the craziest job because they were just inundated with stuff. And Clinton constantly be turning back and saying, well, you know, follow up with this and we're going to call this person for her, and we're going to get this person on my staff to call this person that I'm talking to. It was, you know, you can agree or disagree with the politics of the person who is in the position of power. But I know that his particular motivation when it came to leading was simply he wanted to help as many people as possible. And I saw him do it when the cameras were off, when no one was looking,

looking and he could have very easily dismissed the person or not spend much time with them. And don't get me wrong, I've been around a lot of politicians in my career, and I've seen other politicians who are like that. And I think that's why they hit a ceiling. That's why they didn't get past a point. I'll give you just like a quick little example. In 2004, I had, I mostly was out of politics. I was actually in law school at the time. And a lot of politicians come through, who are running for president, every four years. A lot of them come through the San Francisco Bay Area, which is where I was living at the time, because there's a lot of money.

So there's a lot of money to be raised. And all the big guys who were running at the time, John Kerry, all the others, came through San Francisco. And I volunteered, I helped with a number of the different campaigns. And there's one in particular I can think of who didn't ultimately get the nomination, a Democratic candidate, who was a very popular candidate at the time, who came in. and we were helping with this event, and then we ended up going into a private room where he was going to do an interview with some reporters,

and he went over in the corner and just started checking his Blackberry quietly by himself. And there were about 10 or 15 other people in this room, many of whom he didn't know, and he didn't talk to any of them. And I thought that was so telling, because if I'd been in the room with Bill Clinton, and I've also been in a room with Barack Obama as well,

if I've been in a room with them, I know that they would have met every single person in that room because that was who they were. And so that's an amazing skill is being able to do that and constantly be interested in doing that, meeting new people, engaging with people. And I think it's really important today's day and age. That brings up a great point.

So how, though, because the three you named obviously are leaders of the free world and probably were very good at it and genuinely interested in it. But there are also others out there and not trying to be skeptical, but to be real, there are others out there who do that and with kind of a, for false reasons, or they're not really true to themselves, but they feel like they have to do that.

How do you, you know, you being really a master at this, how do you see the difference? Because I'm sure people are constantly trying to network with you between the ones who are like a president, Bill Clinton, who genuinely are interested, and they genuinely care when spent 45 minutes with a random stranger verse the person who is trying to. to get or be a taker, as Adam would say. How do you sense the difference between who the good ones are and who the bad ones are? I think it's absolutely, how do these people behave when the cameras are off or when no one's looking?

How do they treat other people when the person is not of relative significance? And that's a loaded term. But what I mean is, you know, if someone is not a CEO of a company, if they're not a self-made multi-millionaire, if they're not a celebrity, how do they treat people like that? And that's absolutely telling. You can tell, you know, I'm sure you see it. You know, you see it just in your day-to-day life. You know, how do they treat the weight in your house dinner? How do they treat the busboy when you're in a restaurant?

How do they treat, you know, a store clerk when you're in a store in the mall? And I think that's really telling about who that person is at their core. And I think the, you know, I'm not cynical about politics. I know a lot of people are. I think there are a lot of great political leaders serving today. There's a lot of bad ones, too. Usually the bad ones get sorted out sooner or later. We find out about the bad ones.

The good ones have just, you know, great intentions. behind them and they would be doing it if they're in a position of power or if they weren't in a position of power. And when you look back at the really successful ones, the ones who made it to the Oval Office or made it as a governor or senator or something like that for a prolonged period of time, if you look back at their history, they were just as giving when they had no power as they are when they have power. And that's why they rise to a level of success.

And that's why the people elect them and give them. power. So I think that's how you tell the difference between someone who's doing it for good intentions and someone who's just doing it for self-serving purposes. Yeah, like, because you see some of the people who are only trying to network with the CEO or the CEO or the top level ones. And then, like you said, you see how they maybe treat someone who can probably never do anything of significance for them, at least get them a job or whatever. But, and I've noticed that too, where it's upsetting, where you see, where they feel like they can let their guard down, and then they treat people poorly that, you know, they assume or they feel don't have any

sort of power or could help them. And that's an immediate red flag. I literally, if I see somebody do that one time, they're in that taker column for me. And that's really, really tough to get out of there once you're in there, you know? So true. Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm the same way. You know, you have to draw these little conclusions about people.

you know, you're like, okay, I see the true you. And it could be they're having a bad day or something. So sometimes you have to give people a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. But oftentimes it's not. Oftentimes, this is someone who is just trying to extract for themselves whatever they can get. And you know what? That's fine. You can go through life like that.

What I try and tell people is don't be a giver out of a sense of charity. Be a giver because it's the best thing you can. can do for your business. It's the best thing you can do for your career. Just look at give and take. Adam Grant's, you know, phenomenal book. It breaks down the history behind it, and it demonstrates if you are a giver, and you don't allow takers that take advantage of you, but if you're a giver to other people, you are far more likely to be successful than you are if you are a taker. Yeah, it's probably the book that's had as big of influence on my life as any of them in the most recent past. I love that book. Love that.

I love how writers great ones. I think Shane Snow is another one who wrote Smartcuts, but Adam and Shane, both guys who I really look up to, well, they will weave in these great real life stories with science, empirical evidence, to back up these great stories. And I love that style of writing, and I've learned so much from those types of people. And it is great to see.

The science back up what Adam Grant writes about and give and take to where the people, and it's never the sprint, though, as you know, John, it's always, it's more of a marathon where the people who are giving and helping the Abraham Lincoln's of the world eventually are going to come out on top, eventually are going to be successful, even if it doesn't seem like it today, because the people who take and take probably can have a little bit of success in the very, very short term, but certainly won't have it in the long term. That's right. I mean, it can be very tempting in a short-term kind of way, you know, like grabbing for a cookie or grabbing for candy or something like that.

It gives you instant gratification. And giving is a longer-term play. But heck, heck, you know, we're all in it for the long term. We're all going to be in our careers or in our business for the long term. So you've got to set that as your North Star. You've got to decide that this is my ambition and it's going to take time. Where some people do screw up, where I see people make mistakes is they do too much, too fast all at once. You know, sometimes you see people who go out there and they say, I'm just going to give to everyone.

That's the other extreme. And they forget about themselves. So they forget to manage their cash flow or they forget to, you know, get some kind of job in the short term that's going to help them be successful. So and then allow the long term giving that they're doing to lead to greater. success for themselves on the long term. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So I'm curious to learn a little bit more about you, John, and where all this comes from, where somebody who can be developed these skills to be great at the art and science

of developing and building solid relationships with a lot of people. Is there something from your upbringing, from something else to where it's helped you develop these types of relationships or become the person who does these great things for others and is great at the like I said the art and skill of networking yeah well what you know for me personally I'll answer two parts to that question for me personally it really came from the experience I was talking about earlier about my father losing his job when I was younger that had a dramatic impact on me I mean picture it you know you go to school you come home and your dad's cars parked in the driveway earlier than he usually gets home it doesn't usually get

home. That's what happened to me. I go into the living room. My dad's sitting on the couch and, and, you know, the reason he was there was because he'd lost his job. And, you know, I really wanted him to be able to get another job because we really struggled after that. I mean, we had to cut back in every different way. My mother had to work as much as she could. My father was often very depressed during this period of time while he was trying to get a job. And he just didn't have the network. He didn't have the connections. He couldn't call someone up and say, give me a job. And so it was very frustrating for me. And that's why. And that's why we were. what motivated me to study other successful entrepreneurs and athletes and directors and actors and

politicians and figure out what led them to be so successful. And uniformly, I saw it was really the relationships that you build. And, you know, don't just take my word for it. I mean, Sir Richard Branson says that you need to be out there and about making connections, building connections with people. And he knows a lot more about building successful businesses and careers than I do. So I'll take his word for it. But then the second part, part of your question about how to learn to do these things, what's really amazing is people kind of get hung up on that. The number one question I get from people is probably, what can I possibly give to other people who are really successful? You know, what do I have to offer other

people? And oftentimes I think we think that we need to create some amazing solution, and it really doesn't need to be that. It can be as simple as, you know, promoting a friend who, got a new business that came out. Or if you know someone who's got a new book that's coming out, one of the things I advocate people do is literally open up your laptop, record a video talking directly to the camera, reviewing that book, and then upload it to YouTube. Someone will, you know, that author will be incredibly grateful if you do that because you will be helping to promote their particular product.

So it doesn't need to be that scientific. It actually doesn't even need to be related to the vocation. So let's say you work as a photographer or a web designer or an accountant or. lawyer or something like that. Oftentimes people think, well, what can I have to offer? And they think it needs to be related to their vocation when it doesn't. You know, oftentimes it's better if it's related to the recipient. So let's say, you know, the person that you're trying to give to, you know, you should learn as much about them as possible. You know, you, for example, have five daughters, right? That's right, man. You do your homework. Okay. So you have five daughters.

So one thing I could provide to you is anything with Frozen probably. And that one, actually, You probably would, you'd probably shoot me. I'd rather you do something else at this point, since that's kind of a beat to death. But yes, you're right. But it's, you know, it's a good example. It's about being aware of the person that you want to help and then knowing what would be a value to them, you know? So let's say a new frozen game comes out and you can be like Elsa and it's like a board game and your five daughters should get around and play this game and it would give you guys 15 minutes of respite. You would probably love that, you know?

15 minutes of a little bit of a break. Yes, you're right. You know exactly. Exactly. That'd be great. Or it could be, you know, someone, example I use frequently, you know, someone's a huge fan of Thai food and you find out that a new Thai restaurant opened up in their neighborhood. You can even do that research yourself, you know, find that out and share that with them. And they would appreciate it.

Another one, a woman, Jacqueline DuPlesis is her name. I met her a couple of months ago. She sent me an email with a video she'd recorded, unlisted on YouTube, showing how I can create these branded short links to share on Twitter. She'd observed that I share a lot of content on Twitter and that I do it using bitly.com or bit. Dot L.Y is the short word that I use that too. Yeah. Okay. And so like if you look at like the New York Times Twitter feed, their feed, their short links look like N.Y.

t i. t slash something yeah so it's kind of branded she showed me how to do that in a six-minute video which by the way she can do that over and over and over again for other people as well so it's like a little bit of you know giving to someone so there are so many different ways you can do it it's just about putting those habits into practice on a regular basis so you're thinking about other people and we haven't even started talking about introductions although in the context of jordan we did but making introductions is a tremendous way to help people as well to give to other people. So there's so many different things you can do. It's just about making it a practice for yourself.

You got me intrigued with that bitly because I'm using that. And I'm like, wait, how does she do this? I'm going to have to see this video. Yeah, I could share it with you. Yeah, it was really cool. Or maybe we can share the episode with her and she'll send you your own video. Perfect. I will.

I will. I get her contact info. No, that's great. The intro part two, I think is huge. Because, you know, we talk about five-minute favors as well, or in some cases, it can be, if you have a good CRM, a 15-second favor, that can mean the world to that person through introductions, to talk a little bit about the power of that. Yeah, so introductions are just tremendously powerful. I mean, if you look back on your career, you look at opportunities that have come along for you, maybe your spouse, whatever, oftentimes it comes from some introduction that someone else did for you. And oftentimes we think, oh, man, I'd like to. to get more introductions. How do we get more introductions? Well, the way you get more introductions is by introducing other people. Right, yes. It's not rocket science, right? Right. And then through

a spirit of reciprocity, which is a very powerful motivator, other people will do it in return. I actually went through a 30-day period where I tested myself to see how many introductions I could make, and I set a goal of doing over 100 introductions in 30 days, in part just to show other people that it was possible. I would not recommend doing that many because you end up getting a lot in return too many than you can possibly handle. And it's just too much. It was too much. When you intro people, though, do you check with both before or do you sometimes just one side has, you know, or you just say cold, you'll introduce two people. How does that work? Because I know some people have different styles when it comes to that. It's interesting. I think that it's a good idea to do that. It's good practice.

unless you really know that the person that you're introducing, that there's a perfect fit and there's not much doubt about it. You know, for example, you know, Jordan Harbinger, I didn't check with him first to see if it would be okay if I introduce you to him because I know he's interested in doing more podcast interviews. He and I have talked about that. So he's fine with me making those introductions. I didn't need to ask with him in advance.

So, you know, but I did find when I did that 100-day challenge, I got a lot of introductions back, and not one of them had they asked in advance whether it be a good fit for me, and not all were a good fit. So I think oftentimes people go for the introduction, and when you introduce someone without having checked and it's not a good fit, which you often don't know, right? I mean, if you haven't checked first, you've just put more work on their plate, especially for a really busy person because it's like, oh, great, now how do I deal with this? You know, how do I say to the person that I've just been introduced to that I'm not interested in meeting you or, you know, I'm not sure it's a good fit without even having gotten on the phone with you, you know, but a very, for a very busy person, like scheduling the time to get on the phone and doing a phone call. I mean, all those things take time.

So I would say lean towards asking for permission first unless you know that it's, you know, there's no question in your mind that it's going to be a good fit. Yeah, I'm with you there. Because I remember when you did that, and it meant a lot to me. And when Jordan and I were talking prior to clicking record, first of all, he's a great guy and was the exact same guy, you know, whether we recorded or were not recording. It didn't even matter to him. But he was just like, oh, yeah, you know, John introduces. I mean, he basically, if you would have introduced him to anybody, he's going to say yes because of how much trust he has in you, which speaks of volumes about you. So it was really cool.

Yeah, you build up, I mean, that's the other thing is when you've made some good introductions, then you build up some trust in someone. You know, they build up trust in you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So one other event that I know you recently went to with, that was run by actually episode one, Jason Gainard. And Jason's a guy who have been very fortunate to get to know over the last few months. And he has that great event called Mastermind Talks.

And I know you were there with a couple of other guests who are on the show. So I think John Levy was there. Not sure if you got to met him. I think Ben Greenfield was there, I believe. How Alrod? How Alrod? Yeah, and how to. So I wasn't sure how, you know, if you, there's like, what, 150 or so people there.

So not sure how if you could get super close to all of them. But I know you probably do with a lot of them. So talk a little bit about the, that event that Jason through because the listeners here obviously heard Jason as he was preparing for the event. And now that it's happened, I want to learn more about it. Yeah. Yeah, so an amazing event, and I've gone to a number of different events, but this one really, I've said that it's like they've reinvented the conference in the same way that Apple reinvented the phone and Tesla's reinventing the car. Wow.

They really have thought it through from soup to nuts. And Jason is a student of other events. He's gone to a lot of other events. He's seen what didn't work, and he's put an amazing amount of attention to detail. He's such an interesting guy. I don't know how much you got into his background. in your interview of him, but he's a high school dropout. He'd been an auto mechanic.

Then he starts a luxury concierge service. And I see a lot of that luxury concierge background coming out in Mastermind Talks. It's, as you said, it's like 130 people, I think, there. It was in Napa Valley this year, had been in Toronto the previous year. This was just the third year of doing it, and yet it was run so flawlessly. You would have thought that they've been doing it for decades, and they'd been doing it in the same location for decades. It was just a very small group, really highly curated.

Jason got on the phone with every single person who went there. They had over 7,000 applications for just 130 slots. And, like, for example, the type of attention detail that they did was he did an intake form where you answered questions like, what are some things on your bucket list, what are your challenges you're facing, what do you really enjoy doing? and then he surrounded you with other people each day based on your common interests. So I was next to Derek Coburner wrote the book, Networking is Not Working. One day I was next to Michael Simmons who writes for Forbes about networking and relationship building another day. And then he switched it up.

So like, you know, each every couple hours, you're in a different group of people that he has specifically put you near so that you would get to know them. And that was amazing. I mean, like, most conferences you go to, they completely miss out on that detail. They just, like, drop you down in a conference room for three days and then you're done. So that was amazing. And then he had curated dinners and little surprise events along the way that you didn't know about. I didn't know, by the way, who was speaking except for Tim Ferriss. I had no idea who else was speaking.

And yet the speakers were really phenomenal, provided a great value. And I didn't know who else was attending, too. I mean, a lot of events these days will publish an intendee list, but they didn't do it because they didn't want you. to have a preconceived notion of who you wanted to connect with and who you didn't want to connect with because you can get value from, you know, other entrepreneurs, even if they're not in your field. So, yeah, it was really just amazing. And a number of takeaways for anyone who's listening to this, you don't have to be in the conference field to get takeaways from that. I think that one of the biggest lessons was do not underestimate the value of a small gesture in your business or in your career.

you know, that kind of attention to detail, that kind of care will make people completely loyal to you. And I liked Jason before. He and I have had dinner together, and we've introduced each other to different people. I liked them a lot, but I like them a lot more now because I know how much care he put into that event into making sure that everyone, myself and everyone else who is there, really enjoyed the experience. It feels to me like there is, there's just the one, one of the lessons out of the many that I've learned from it is there is absolutely no detail too small to take care of. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, there is, I'm, I have it right in front of me, the booklet that they gave you, you know, when you showed up there. And this thing is, you know, it's like, it's like an inch thick and it's glossy and it's got an attendee roller decks in it.

It's got the event agenda. It's got information on the speakers. And then it's got worksheets in it that you can tear out. And they must have put hundreds of hours into just this spiral-bound welcome booklet that you use throughout the event. And that was just one of the things that they did. They also, this is amazing. I don't know if I should give this away for people who might be attending in future years, although they'll probably use some different idea.

So about a month or two beforehand, I get something in the mail via FedEx, like an envelope. I open it up, and it's about the size of a DVD case, and it looks about like a DVD case. And then I open this thing up, and there's a little screen, and it's all branded Mastermind Talks, and there's a little screen. And then all of a sudden a video pops on, and it's Jason, and he says, hey, John, just wanted to let you know. I'm so excited for you to come to Mastermind Talks. Here's some additional information on it, and I was just blown away. I mean, it was like, oh my God, I cannot believe it. It was like a little video screen.

And then he gives you some information on the event and just, you know, it was meant to get you excited about the event. And that kind of small detail. I mean, I can't imagine how much that cost just to send that out to all the attendees. Wow. And, you know, it goes to their bottom line, right? I mean, it could have been profit for the event. But he was so committed to making it such an amazing experience for people that it didn't matter.

He ended up, you know, doing it. And it was a, it was not a cheap event. The full price for a ticket to this thing was $6,000 for two days. And I've never spent anything that large, you know, to attend an event before. And yet afterwards, don't tell Jason, I said this. Afterwards, I felt like, wow, that was, that could have been more and it still would have been of good value. That's incredible, man. What are some takeaways, again, for people, because a lot of people go to meetings

or we have meetings. We're part of them, and there's a big difference between meetings that are well-run and that something actually gets done in other meetings, and probably most meetings that a lot of us go to where they are people passing the time, so to speak. What's one or two things that could liven up a meeting that you learn there that people could literally take notes on and say, ah, I could do that right now?

Well, one huge one was computers were not allowed. Computers and laptops were not allowed in the conference room, and phones were allowed, but they were heavily discouraged. He actually, it was interesting, the first day in the morning, he explained a couple, it gave some examples of some people that he had had to kick out of previous Mastermind Talks conferences, and he also has a higher level mastermind group that he had to kick out as well. And he gave examples of how they got kicked out, basically. And it was kind of funny because it was like, this is the kind of behavior that we're not going to tolerate here.

And it was very clear. There's no arbitrary nature of it. And so I kind of like that. It was very clear. Like, we want you to be engaged. We don't want to be disconnected. If you're on the phone the whole time, I'm going to ask you to step out, and I might ask you to leave entirely.

And I think that was fine. Like, this is what we want. These are, we're setting the ground rules. This is the type of event that we want to have. And so I love that. I love that people were really, they were checked in. They were paying attention. And then he also incentivized it even further.

So he actually had an award. We actually voted on this for MVP of the conference. Wow. And Ben Greenfield actually won it, who he actually led like a fitness event each morning. And it was like the person who's most engaged, whose most represents the conference, who's most giving to the other attendees. And I love that.

It was like, there's an award. Did he win something? Did he get like a piece of hardware or something? What did he get? You know Ben, so it could have been, you know, like a thing of wood or something

and he probably would have liked it. I don't know. No, I'm not sure. I know they had, the award for Best Speaker was this trophy that had been printed on a 3D printer,

which I've never seen before. It was really kind of cool looking. So I'm not sure. I didn't see the award, but just the fact that they had an award was amazing. And then the other thing I would say is don't waste a minute of your conference. This was a crazy busy two days. The breakfast started at 7.20 a.m. And the first event started at 8.20 a.m. sharp.

And one of the nights, our dinner didn't let out until 9, no, like 10, after 10. And then, and we were at a remote location, they brought us back, and then we were back at the hotel, like, after 10. So it was nonstop all day long. And even during the breaks, like they'd take a break in between speakers, and Jason would say, okay, now during this break, I want you to introduce yourself to the person behind you and tell them three things you're proud of. And then you can use the restroom, you know? And so it was like rather than just saying, okay, go ahead, go use the restroom and we have a 20-minute break. He actually made a little bit of value, made a little interaction in between it. That's great, really, really good.

So speaking of conferences or meetings, places we all go to learn and get better. And I talk about this a lot on this podcast because I think it's really important and it's a tough question. But we go and I think as humans, we're pretty good at going to these types of training sessions, whether the company makes you or you're entrepreneur and you want to do it. And we take notes. You know, we come home with our notebook full. We got everything. We're excited.

We're energized. We're saying, this is great. I got some great ideas. And then we get to the part where we need to execute or implement what we learn and we absolutely fail. We don't implement. We don't execute. We forget what we learned.

We don't look at our notebook. and we just go back to what we are doing. Why is it that people are good at grasping the ideas that are articulated on an intellectual basis, so to speak, but they fail, we fail to implement them in such a way that's going to benefit us or our business? Oh, man, what a great question. And that's really the heart of it. So often we go to an event or we see a movie that fires us up. or we read a book that fires us up, or we listen to a podcast that fires us up,

and we're all gung-ho when we're ready to go, and then we don't follow through on it. And what do we do about that? How do we create these habits? How do we actually get a longer-term impact out of it? Well, for me personally, a couple of thoughts on that. First of all, Jason, in particular, the organizers of this conference, will say he's not good in person. He's not good at meeting people face-to-face, like at a conference or something, but what he's really good at is following up with people afterwards and then deepening that relationship.

And oftentimes I think, you know, people fear they think like, you know, I'm not that good at meeting people or I'm not that interesting. And so they drop the other part, which is the following up. And that's where the real value comes. You know, you meet someone interesting. You need to continue to follow up with them. And you can use a tool like I do, like contactually, and Sightly is another one out there, Salesforce, NetSuite. There's a lot of different competitors out there, podium is another one, which is a tool that basically gives you reminders to follow up with people. So that if there's someone

you met at a conference and you want to continue that relationship, that's a great tool for making sure that you continue that relationship. And of course, that relationship will lead to other opportunities. So that's why you have to start with the relationship. Now, another thing that they used at that conference, which was a cool tool. I haven't seen this before, is they called it a 90-day letter. And they gave us, I think, about six or seven minutes to sit down and write down a letter to ourselves with the things we wanted to accomplish out of this conference, some ideas that we wanted to implement, that they were going to mail to us 90 days later. So we're going to get this letter, you know, 90 days after the end of the conference. And, you know, either we will

accomplish those things or not. I love that, though, because it gives us some accountability. Another one, you mentioned, for example, on one of the other podcasts, I think you said you brainstormed a list of 120 guests who you wanted to have on this podcast. Am I right? That's right. Yeah. And I love that idea. I love that idea. You know, not everyone has a podcast.

So some people listening to this might be saying, well, I don't have a podcast, so that's not going to work for me. But what you can do is you can brainstorm a list. I call it my conversation list strategy. and I say people start with 50 people, brainstorm a list of the people who you'd like to deepen a relationship with over the course of, let's say, the next 12 months and the next year.

And the reason I think it's so important to start with that is because all the other opportunities in your life, in your business, in your career, will flow out of those relationships if you surround yourself with the right people. But not many people take the time to do this like you did. So literally take the time to sit down, take out a sheet of paper,

or do it in a word document or whatever, and write out a list of 50 people you'd like to build or deepen a relationship over the course the next 12 months, and then commit yourself to doing that over the next 12 months. You don't need to do it all at once. You can spread it out over time.

You could maybe sprinkle a name every week if you want. You could say, here's this new name of the person that I'm going to reach out to and maybe I'm going to interview them or maybe I'm going to email them and offer them some value or a recommendation or something. You should actually be, you know, if these are 50 people that you really want to deepen your relationship with, you should actually be doing it more frequently, but you could set a goal of like, you know, reaching out and asking,

if they want to connect. I call it a no agenda virtual coffee. Like just do like a virtual coffee. If you don't have a podcast, you know, you can just talk to someone over the phone. Now, you know, if someone's more successful, they're less likely to do that. That's why I think interviewing is a tremendous tool because when you interview someone who's very successful, you're not taking from them. You're actually giving to them. You're giving them publicity. You're giving them PR. You're giving them exposure. So that's a wonderful tool. So there's a couple different ideas of things you can do. Those are awesome, John. Thank you so much. And I appreciate the fact that you've done your homework prior to this podcast. I know you're a very busy guy. And yeah, that list was really the beginnings of this

podcast was, you know, who are the people that I find those three things. They would be educational. They'd be entertaining and they would inspire. And, you know, you're obviously very high on that list. And that's why you're one of the first guys actually reach out to and to when you said, you know what, I will do it. I just, I need to need a little bit of time. But here's somebody else in the meantime. And that's really, really cool. Because most people, when they respond, they say, you know, they say either, you know, yes or no. Or, or. you know, you know, contact me in a year or something like that. So, so yours was, was unique in the sense that it was neither of those.

It was like, yeah, we're going to do this. But in the meantime, you can, you know, reach out to one of my good friends who would also be a great guest. And you were right. So it was good. So thank you for that. Thank you. I have, I have one more question for you before we get gone. And, you know, obviously the name of the show is the learning leader show.

I love learning. I love leadership. I love leaders who always strive. to improve and inspire others. And I try really hard to embody those through action. And that's part of, you know, why I'm doing this podcast, because it's the creation of content for other people to listen to and hopefully get some sort of inspiration mixed with, with entertainment and education.

So if you were going to define what a learning leader is, what would you say? I would say as someone who is humble in their approach and eager in their enthusiasm for continually improving themselves, I think that when we conclude that we know everything that we need to know right now and we don't need to learn anymore, then we fail. Then we're most likely going to experience big failures. And don't get me wrong, I've experienced plenty of failures throughout my career. I did a webinar last week where someone asked me that question, like, what failures have you experienced? And I started writing down a list, and I had like a bunch of different things on there. And really, to me, the mark of a successful person isn't someone who hasn't had any failures.

It's just the people who, when they have a failure, they dust themselves off, they stand back up, and then they continue going. And so I think that when it comes to learning and being a leader, really it's about that. It's about dusting yourself off, being humble, continuing to improve yourself, continuing to educate yourself. You know, it's like the conference going to Mastermind Talks last week. I went there just in a spirit of humility and wanting to give to other people and wanting to absorb and learn as much as I could from the other entrepreneurs there. and I guarantee you I wasn't the only one who was there who felt like you didn't belong. Yeah. And if you're in a room where you feel like maybe you don't belong, you're doing something right.

Yeah. That is a great place to be. So constantly putting yourself out there into situations where you question, do I belong in this room? You know, when I was 23 years old, heck, when I was interning, when I was 21 years old and I was walking over to the Oval Office, I was questioning, what the heck am I doing here? Do I belong here? So you got to overcome that fear, and you got to tell yourself, I am doing something right if I am questioning whether I should even be here at all.

Because I guarantee you, you do deserve to be there. And one day you'll look back and say, yeah, absolutely. I don't know why I ever questioned whether I deserve to be there. So that would be my definition. That's a great answer, man. It really is, John. And I just want to commend you and thank you again for being such truly, a giver. I know that that means a lot to me and you've helped me more than you know,

both in the content you provide, writing, podcast, everything, and then joining us here for the Learning Leader Show. So I really, really appreciate it. And I'd love to keep talking, man. Thank you so much. Thank you, Ryan. My pleasure. All right. Thanks, John. Talk to you soon. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to LearningLeadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.