The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 038: John Ruhlin – Working The Gratitude Muscle | Strategic Appreciation And Gift Giving

Starting point is 00:00:00 And I think that anybody that might be listening that's either started a business or thinking about starting a business, I think dominating a very, very, very small niche. I mean, Seth Godin talks about this. That's where you start to become remarkable and you start to become known. I don't know how well known we are, but we're starting to get written up in, you know, ink and Forbes and some of those sorts of things. So I think it's working, focusing really, really, really deep on one particular area and becoming known for that and becoming known for being world class in that area. you start to stand out. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work

Starting point is 00:00:39 on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk and I'm extremely excited about tonight's featured leader. It's John Rulin of the Rulin Group. John is the number one ranked sales professional in the 65 year history of Cutco Knives. And although those record-breaking sales results are what has given them this platform,

Starting point is 00:01:24 it's his ideas around appreciative leadership and building memorable relationships and experiences for his clients. I promise you're going to love the stories John tells and his philosophy around gift giving and showing your appreciation for others. He's mastered the art and science of stories. strategic appreciation. A couple of the stories he got into, how he spent $7,000 out of Brooks Brothers to meet and impress somebody that he wanted to have mentor him. You'll love that story, as well as the story of when he got engaged to his wife. It's absolutely crazy.

Starting point is 00:02:01 It's intense. And there's a great learning moment from it. Also, I asked him, how can we all be better gift givers, regardless of the amount of income or what we do for our daily profession and he gives great actionable tips for all of us. Always think what's the most I could possibly give. That's the quick hint. Ladies and gentlemen, I promise you're going to enjoy this one with John Rulin. All right, John, I'm really excited to have you here on the Learning Leaders show, but I got a question around success and common characteristics of people that you've been around that have

Starting point is 00:02:50 achieved some form or some sort of success. And if you had to distill it down into one or two characteristics that the people you've met who have achieved success, one common characteristic they share, what would it be? I think for me, at least the people that have lasting success, you know, I think there's a lot of times where people gain maybe a period or a day or a week or a month of success. but I think at a core level, the mentors in my life that I would say have been successful and people I model my life after are amazing at building relationships. I think that success kind of rises and falls based upon whether you're in business or

Starting point is 00:03:30 your personal life. Like if you're good at building relationships, you're going to have a lot of long-term lasting success. And if you're horrible at building relationships, you might still be able to get successful for a time period, but it doesn't last. So what are some of the things people can do? key tactical things. And I know this is still, it's kind of broad because I mean, building relationship is definitely, I think people understand the importance there. But, but as far as the

Starting point is 00:03:56 action, taking action as far as how do I build great relationships with it with a great network. What are some of the things people can do in order to do that? One of my favorite books of the last couple years, you may have read it. And I know a number of other thought leaders have spoken well of it. The book, give and take. I talk about it. Hold on. Real quick. people probably are tired of hearing me talk about this book because it's mentioned, I think, on every single episode by me. So this is pretty cool, though, that you said that because I didn't know you're going to say that.

Starting point is 00:04:25 Really? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love that book. I love Adam, too. He's coming on the podcast. Yeah, yeah. Is it really? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:34 That's awesome. So you want me not to talk about it anymore? No, no, go for it, man. I'm just saying it's funny that you're saying it now instead of me. Oh, that's ridiculous. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that gives kind of the roadmap of building relationships. Be a giver. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:47 If you want to, you know, but be a giver in the right way. I think a lot of givers get taken advantage of. And so as Adam alludes to it, like the top performing doctors, lawyers, sales guys, business owners are givers and the worst performing ones are also givers. So I think that you want a roadmap. That book is fantastic at understanding that give to other givers and maybe some matchers and try to minimize the damage of takers out there. And if you can build relationships by offering value,

Starting point is 00:05:15 on a regular basis. I mean, Gary Vaynerchuk talks about it. And anybody that is in 2015, that's a thought leader, it seems like, understands the importance of, on a consistent regular basis, giving value without strings attached. And when you do that, it's amazing. Especially when you give to other givers,

Starting point is 00:05:33 you know, the 10x and 100x factor of coming back, you know, it just starts to multiply. It takes a little while, but it starts to multiply. Yeah, absolutely. So let's take a step back, John. and I want to give you a little bit of time here. For the people who are listening who do not know you, I like for you to describe a little bit about what you currently do,

Starting point is 00:05:56 your business, and then how you got to this point. Yeah. So I'm a country boy from Ohio. Yeah. So you being from Ohio at Dayton, I grew up about an hour south of Canton. Okay. And so my background is I grew up on a farm poor, you know, not like, you know, barefoot poor, but like, you know, definitely wasn't wearing the Air Jordan's kind of, you know,

Starting point is 00:06:17 in school. So I was hungry, got the grades, was an overachiever. And so fortunately, when I went into college, I had a mentor as my girlfriend's dad at the time. And he was the most successful person I ever met. When you, when you don't have money and you're in college, you notice the people who do have money. And he was always giving things away. And so a lot of what I teach and build on actually as a result of things I learned 15 years ago from this guy. He was the kind of a guy that would, you know, you'd buy, like, find a deal on noodles noodles and buy a semi-loaded noodles and everybody at church the next weekend would end up with like a year supply of noodles.

Starting point is 00:06:51 And so I started to model, you know, I was interning for a company, Cutco the Knife Company, which a lot of people are familiar with Cutco and Vector. And they have literally the best training program for college kids on the planet. Yeah. Hell Elrod has been a guest in the show, Big Cutco sales guy. Oh, really? How is a great. That was a super cool.

Starting point is 00:07:09 I've roomed with Hal at Jason Gaynor's event, the Mastermind talks. is we're alive. Jason's been on the show too, man. So, yeah, Hal and I, uh, how's wife and my wife are like super close and, and we, you know, we travel together and just, they're just a wonderful, they're great human beings. But so, so Kako is where I kind of, you know, pun intended, cut my teeth. But really what, what made my business and what I've done over the last 15 years differently was instead of selling knives to, to homeowners, which I did for the first year or two, I started to model what I was learning from Paul. And the way that I, one of the first things I learned from

Starting point is 00:07:45 Paul, I remember he bought a set of knives for his daughters and the daughters weren't even married. But I remember pitching him the idea. I saw all these things being given away. And I thought, Paul, maybe you'd want to give away pocket knives. You have all these guy clients. Maybe we can engrave a logo on it or whatever else. And he had this like little twinkle in his eye and said, John, could you engrave pairing knives? And I'm like, Paul, that's, you know, be honest, man, that's weird. But also as many pairing knives you want, like, I appreciate the award. And order, but why? And he said, well, you know, I have all these clients that are guys that are executives, but they're all married. And I find that if I take care of the inner circle,

Starting point is 00:08:18 the family, everything else takes care of itself. And so that was a, you know, it doesn't sound like a crazy aha moment, but it was like a ray of light shining down from heaven. I was like, wow, it's not about the knife. It's about understanding psychology of relationship building. And Paul did that just intuitively, naturally, really, really well. And so, So I started to, I'd save up money and I'd buy a carving set and I'd find a CEO. I'd want to target like of an insurance company or whatever else. And I'd find out his wife's name and I engraved that on the knife and put their logo on it, not my logo.

Starting point is 00:08:54 And I would put a little note inside saying, carve out five minutes for me. I promise it'll be worth your while. And, you know, the CEO would be expecting like some like polished, 50-year-old executive to be walking through the door and in would walk a 22-year-old, you know, just graduated from college talking about how we're going to teach your 100 sales reps how to leverage these knives or other things to open doors, appreciate people, stay top of mind, build trust, and we'd land the deal. And instead of selling one set, we'd sell a thousand sets. And so that was the, that's kind of the foundational element. We've since now, you know, we spent a lot of time training and

Starting point is 00:09:33 teaching, and we just got confirmation that we're speaking at Google next month. So, You know, from 15 years ago being, you know, one of six kids on a farm, you know, bailing hay in the summers to now spending my summers, you know, hanging out with guys like you and Jason in Napa. It's, I have to pinch myself because it sure wasn't part of the master plan going into, to college. I thought it was going to go be a doctor. And I'm sure is that glad I didn't go that direction. That's for sure. Wow. So your business is based on investing in high quality, give.

Starting point is 00:10:08 gift giving and having an understanding of then the return on that investment. And so is there a calculation or a way you do calculate an ROI on gift giving, both for yourself, because I know obviously you're a great gift giver, as well as for others as you're sharing with them how and why they should be great gift givers? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great question. I view gift giving or what we call strategic appreciation.

Starting point is 00:10:35 And it's not just gifts. It's the handwritten notes. the words of affirmation. You know, there's studies out there that say that the best performing teams, you know, there's six positive words of affirmation for every one negative, you know, critique or criticism. So a six to one ratio, and most people in their work lives are getting at best one to one. That's interesting. Maybe two to one. And so it's thinking about gratitude and appreciation systematically and scientifically and saying, you know, I have these key relationships. It could be your 100 most important employees or your 100 most important

Starting point is 00:11:10 clients or maybe, you know, I treat my suppliers like gold. I try to, I send nicer things to most of my suppliers than most people send to their best employees because I don't have a business without suppliers and most people don't understand that whoever those core relationships are, how frequently most people it's once a year. It's like, hey, it's bonus time or hey, it's the holidays and here's your token, honeybegged tam or here's a, Hey, thank you so much for the 2,000 hours of blood, sweat, and tears. Here's a Starbucks gift card for $25. It's like they actually spend money and damage the relationship because they don't understand the value.

Starting point is 00:11:45 So when you're looking at a metric, I try to reverse engineer and say, what could this relationship, you know, what's the current value of it and what could it be with the right nurturing? And so I reinvest about 5% of our revenue back into our core relationships. That could be through gifts. It could be through dinners. But I would say 80% of what we do is in a tangible form because we feel like, you know, dinner's great because you get the face time. But a lot of our key relationships and clients, one, they don't have the time to go to dinner. Two, they're going to go on 50 other dinners this year. And why is my Morton's dinner for $500 any different than the other 49 they're going to go on?

Starting point is 00:12:26 So I look for ways, you know, I'm a smaller company. I'm looking for ways to get 100 extra return, not a way. one to one or a two to one return like most big companies. They're like they're looking to just kind of follow a set game plan of, hey, we do a trade show four times a year and we we put up our billboards and we do this. Like I'm looking for a unique leverage point. And I found that most people are so horrible at gifting that one, it's a great business to be in because nobody does it well. And two, I have to eat my own dog food and show people how impactful. And so we've been able to, you know, sometimes spend $100 and land $100,000 with a business from it. Wow.

Starting point is 00:13:12 And so that to me is a pretty good ROI. It doesn't happen every time there's time where I spent $1,000 and get nothing from it. But I've also had times where I didn't think anything was coming from it. And then seven years later, a seed was planted that then gets watered and all of a sudden, We have some of our biggest clients that come over time. So it's like anything else, it's a moving target, but we try to be disciplined and say, we're going to reinvest a certain percentage of our profits or our revenue back into these relationships because we know that over time, the numbers work out. And you can't overappreciate people in most situations.

Starting point is 00:13:49 I guess you could, I guess theoretically, but most people are so far on one spectrum that they have a long way to go before they have to worry about spending too much money on their key relationships, in our opinion. Yeah. And so I want to try to relate this to as many people as possible. So let's say, let me just paint a picture of a visual of a person and then if they're listening of how they could utilize what you're saying into their everyday lives. So let's say this person is, and I've used an example like this before, with other guests,

Starting point is 00:14:22 but it's based on different exercises. So let's say his person is a 31-year-old guy and he works at an office for a company and he makes a decent money, but he's certainly not filthy rich. He has responsibilities, a mortgage, kids, spouse, and, you know, is able to save a little bit of money every month, but also has bills to pay. Yep. How can this person, you know, who's listening to this podcast, get better or start doing this by, you know, really? what do you call it, strategic appreciation, so not just gift giving, but how can they do better in this to help build their network and build relationships, whether it's inside a company or just in their life in general?

Starting point is 00:15:06 Yeah. Well, I think the two things that come to mind. One is you have to write down a list of your most important relationships. You have to identify who that inner circle is. It could be 10 people, 20 people, 50 people, 100 people. who are the people in your interpersonal life and your business life that without them, you don't have a personal life or a business life. So, you know, if they're married, it's your wife and kids, if it's, you know, in business,

Starting point is 00:15:35 it's your core clients, your core referral centers, your core employees, you know, and every, you know, that 31-year-old executive may have, you know, 20 people on the list or it might have 100 people on the list. It's going to vary. But you have to identify who. those are. The other thing I think that, you know, is a good exercise to get into practice is you have to start working, you know, what I call the gratitude muscle. It's, you know, like a lot of times people will come up to me after a speaking event and they'll say, John, that sounds great, but I'm not

Starting point is 00:16:04 that creative or, you know, that's awesome, but I could never do that. And then I say, I grew up on a farm. I didn't grow up at a country club learning, like marketing principles from, you know, like Adam Grant's not my dad. Like, I learned this, one, from seeing other people model it, but two, you. from practicing the attitude of gratitude every single day. So waking up every morning and saying, like, who are the people I'm grateful for, and then start to put it into practice. I think that spending an hour a week on the handwritten note,

Starting point is 00:16:34 I think Tony Robbins calls it the hour of power, I think is really powerful, and it doesn't cost a lot of money. You know, if you want to get really fancy letterhead or whatever else, maybe it costs a few bucks, but in general, it's actually setting aside consistent time every week to, to start to show appreciation. I mean, in our digital age, the handwritten note is, I think, has become gold. And when you do that really well, it stands out.

Starting point is 00:17:00 People really feel it if you put some thought into it. A guy named Michael Mayer talks about how to write a note. You don't make the note about you. You make the note about the person. And I think that people do the same thing with gifting. If you're going to give a gift to your wife, a lot of times guys are like, they try to swoop in. And it's like, hey, honey, I got you this gift. but really it was like they got a trip, but it was really they wanted to go to Pebble Beach.

Starting point is 00:17:23 So they like book a trip and Carmel or Carmel or whatever. And the whole reason was to go there so they could play golf. Well, that's not a gift. That's not a recipient focus gift. That's a gift about you. And I see a lot of companies do the same thing. You know, it's like, hey, we gave you, you know, we got you this really nice bag, but we put our logo the size of a billboard on the side of it.

Starting point is 00:17:43 So, you know, it's not really a gift. It's a marketing tool. And who wants to be treated like a marketing tool? Nobody. So when you can start to think about making gifts that are doing things that are recipient-focused, whether in your personal life or your business life, you start to work the muscle, and then you've identified the target, you know, those are some simple steps. And then I think that you can start to work into, I'm going to invest, let's say a nominal amount, $500 a month from our corporate resources, or maybe I'm going to invest $200 a month from my own personal resources to put towards that. You know, some months maybe you spend $400, another month you spend nothing. But I think if you can start to budget for it, so it doesn't hurt. And it just becomes a part of your normal way of being. I've seen guys like Hal and whatever else.

Starting point is 00:18:33 Like they start to see the responses and whatever else. And all of a sudden their budget was $200 is now $1,000 because they got a taste of what it was like. And they start to see people's responses to it. So I like, you know, I really like that. I think it's actionable to people right now. It's just like maybe any other people budget things for, you know, you have like a balance sheet or you have an Excel sheet that you have where you put, you know, this is how much I spend on my car. This is how much I spend on my house. This is how much I, you know, have for groceries.

Starting point is 00:19:04 Why wouldn't you just add a line item in that Excel sheet and say this is how much I'm going to invest really in myself and in others, my network in gift giving and just make it a regular part of your budget? I think that right there is an actionable tip that anybody can do. You know, you have to be disciplined with it. As well as, in addition to that, the handwritten notes part, I think, is anybody can do that. And it's definitely something that needs to be implemented. That's why I was so excited to talk to you, man, because I knew I would get, you know, getting actionable tips and ideas that could be taken away literally right now to implement. And I want to take that to a higher level.

Starting point is 00:19:42 So this is great stuff. Oh, that's awesome. So do you have specific strategies when you get started to grow? Is there something that you feel like you do different from other entrepreneurs or other people who have maybe tried to get into the similar business to you than you? Are there specifics that you could separate you from others? I mean, at least in our business, I think that there's a lot of people that would say they're in the gifting business, but really it kind of goes back to a gift is recipient-focused.

Starting point is 00:20:15 It's like you'd never go to a wedding. I think about to going to a wedding and, you know, nice young couples getting married and start in their life and you show up and you're like, hey, I got you this really nice Tiffany's vase. But on the side of it, it says compliments of Ryan Hawk. It's like they could be the cheesiest thing on the planet. And so I think, you know, we try to look at things, you know, with a different set of eyes and say, like, what would we want to receive as a gift and understanding the difference between a promotional product, which is where really, I mean, the promotional product industry, there's nothing wrong with it. And in fact, we've done some cool little promotional things. But I think that there's a big confusion on, you know, what a promotional product is and what a gift is. And a gift should be, you know, should be personalized.

Starting point is 00:20:57 Should be world class. You know, I think a lot of promotional items are, you know, they're imported from China. It's like, how can we buy as many as possible as cheap as possible? It's like kind of like the mentality of most of corporate America. It's like, you have all these procurement decisions being made. And it's like everything's the same. And it's just a commodity. And, you know, when you start to treat people like commodity,

Starting point is 00:21:15 commodities, it's, you know, not good things happen. And so I think the reason that what we do differently is, you know, most of our items that we sell, you know, most of the solutions we provide, they're U.S. made or they're European made or they're best in class. That's the complete opposite of what most people do. They want to buy as many as possible. And our philosophy is, if you can't do something really nice for a thousand people, take that same budget and do something really nice for 100 people or really nice for 20 people. Or, That's the exact opposite of what most people in our space would say to do. And I push back when people say their budget is $10.

Starting point is 00:21:54 I'm like, you know what? Instead of spending $10 and looking like a fool, why don't you handwrite a really nice, take that $10 and buy yourself 30 minutes to write a really nice note to the person or to make a really nice five-minute videos talking about why you appreciate the person. Jason's perfect at this. I mean, he makes videos and sends them off to people. And I think that you're going to get a lot further. And so most people are just saying, like, whatever your budget is, we'll make it work.

Starting point is 00:22:19 And I'm saying we really talk people out of doing half the things that they want to do. And I think in our day and age, most people want to be an order taker, you know, make it really easy and automated online. Like, hey, point click here and order, whatever. And our business is very high touch and very involved and understanding the psychology. And so I think the other thing is we know we do really well. And I think a lot of times people try to be all things to all people in whatever industry they are. And we've decided to dominate the appreciation space. Like I don't help people.

Starting point is 00:22:52 I'm not send out cards trying to help people handwrite cards. I'm not, although we do talk about handwritten notes. I mean, you mentioned the letterhead that we do. Like, I'm not trying to sell letterhead to people. Like, we've dialed in what we do really, really well. And we try to dominate that niche in a handful of industries that we play in. And I think that anybody that might be listening that's either started a business or thinking about starting a business, I think dominating a very, very, very small niche.

Starting point is 00:23:18 I mean, Seth Godin talks about this. That's where you start to become remarkable and you start to become known. I don't know how well known we are, but we were starting to get written up in, you know, ink and Forbes and some of those sorts of things. So I think it's working, focusing really, really, really deep on one particular area and becoming known for that and becoming known for being world class in that area, you start to stand out. Yeah, and I want to talk a little bit about idea generation, and specifically your process for coming up with new and creative ideas, because I've seen some of the gifts you give,

Starting point is 00:23:52 and there are things that people haven't done before, or the way, like I said, you show appreciation or things people haven't done before. And so what is your process for creating ideas and new things to come up with as a way to show your appreciation for people. Yeah, so I think one of the things that we do is we keep our eyes open and we're always trying to expose ourselves to, you know, different mastermind groups and talks. So we're learning from other people and you're experiencing world-class things in different parts of the country or different parts of the world.

Starting point is 00:24:25 So I think that's huge for us. I think the other thing is asking yourself the right question. I think that inherently most people, I know myself, it's like when I go to, you, you know, somebody's graduation or wedding, the natural tendency is to say what's the least I can get away with here and still look good. And I think that in business, when you say, you know, Paul, my mentor was amazing at this. Like, he would say, what's the most I could give here? Like, what's the most I could do here? And that one question, it's amazing. We asked that question early on with our business cards. I'm like, I don't have money for fancy websites and,

Starting point is 00:25:03 you know, like, I want to be creative, but I don't, I can't, you know, I can't, you know, I can't afford to give is, you know, a thousand gifts. So what are the few things I can do? And how can I make that creative? And so I took the business card and I said, what would the craziest business card on the planet look like? And most people are like, well, you know, I want to get it as cheap as possible. Or if I'm going to make it fancy, I'll, instead of spending five cents, I'll spend seven cents and put silver foil on it or something. And you know what I mean, they get, they think that's like taking it up a notch or ten notches. So I set the goal at spending a dollar on my business card. And I couldn't find it.

Starting point is 00:25:37 I couldn't find, you know, this is, you know, 15 years ago. I couldn't find a dollar business card. Maybe it was 10 years ago when I asked the question. But that was our goal, was like, to spend the most on a business card. So when we handed it out, it would represent us well. And so I remember watching the movie Hitch. I don't know if you remember the movie Hitch or not. Yeah, that's great.

Starting point is 00:25:53 Will Smith's like a, you know, a hero mine growing up watching him, Fresh Prince of Bel Air the whole nine years. So I thought he was the coolest guy on the planet. So I'm watching the movie. And I don't if you remember or not, most people are like, what are you talking about? I'm like, his business card. Do you remember his business card?

Starting point is 00:26:06 And I'm like, and they're like, no. I'm like, that's, that was our inspiration. He had a square black business card with just his name on it, hitch, and silver writing, and his phone number. And it looked like it was like really thick cardboard. So I'm like, I wonder if we could get that made out of metal. And sure enough, we could. And so it was our first business card was this black metal card that had our logo and whatever else.

Starting point is 00:26:27 It was too busy, in my opinion, looking back now. But at the time, I thought it was the coolest thing. And when I would hand that out to somebody, people, like even CEOs of Fortune 100, companies, like, they would stop in their tracks. They'd be like, what the heck is this? I'm like, that's my card. And you could tell, like, everything I've been talking about, about the details mattering and appreciating people at a high level and all this other stuff, all of a sudden that

Starting point is 00:26:49 all, like, you know, came together and they understood it because it was in its tangible form. And so I think that asking yourself that question of, what's the most I could do in this situation? Like, what would the craziest? And just go, you know, like, put no bar, you know, no, no. limits on it. And I know that sounds maybe cliche or cheesy, but asking that yourself that question, when you start to ask different questions, you get different answers. And we did the same

Starting point is 00:27:14 thing with our letterhead. We've done the same thing with other gifts after, you know, we landed a client. It's like, what would the craziest thank you gift or what would the craziest, whatever, like, for this kind of person? And, you know, we've sent sonnas to people and we've done some pretty wild things as gifts to people, not to be like, not to brag or to be crazy, it's to say, like, we feel like, you know, like you think about a king from 5,000 years ago or even today, like most of the time you exchange something of value to show the value of the relationship. And so when there's high-stake relationships, a high-value relationship, you want whatever

Starting point is 00:27:55 you give, whatever that artifact's going to be, you want it to be over the top. And so those are some of the things that we've done to try to get ourselves out of the normal line of thinking to get really creative. Yeah, those are awesome. I love it, man. I'm taking some detailed notes here. So I'm thinking about specific moments in your career, in your life, in this business. Was there a time or were there a couple times?

Starting point is 00:28:18 I mean, you just said, you know, you're getting featured in Inc and Forbes and other places, obviously giving talks. Was there a specific moment you can think of to where you felt, wow, I have really created and accomplished something that's incredibly cool. It's having an impact on the world. I'm helping people. Was there a time that you remember sitting back and thinking that? I mean, there's definitely been times where I'm, like,

Starting point is 00:28:44 I've been really proud of what we've created or the moments that we've created. I remember going to my first EO event, Entrepreneurs organization. They had a big 2050 anniversary, and, you know, I remember hearing the speaker, and I ended up being a PR and marketing major. I remember hearing the guy named Cameron Harold speak. Just an amazing guy. And I never heard him before, but he was talking about being on Oprah and 5,000 articles written about him. And they were a junk company.

Starting point is 00:29:11 And I'm like, I remember saying, like, if I could get that guy to be my mentor, like, it could be a game changer for us. Like, I didn't want to be a groupie or, you know, just a consulting client. And so I remember going up to him afterwards after the message and saying, hey, I hear you come to Cleveland's our chapter in a couple months. And, you know, what are you going to do? And he's like, yeah, I'm going to come in. And I said, you know, you want to go to dinner? And, you know, LeBron's in town. You want to go to opening Cavs night?

Starting point is 00:29:35 And, you know, he said, yeah. Of course, it wasn't like that impressive. Like, he'd gone to dinner and ballgame with, you know, a thousand people. And so I'm like, I need to capture this guy's attention. So I'm like, what else are you going to do? And he said, oh, I'm going to go shopping. I said, where? He said, my favorite store is Brooks Brothers.

Starting point is 00:29:53 I'm going to buy a ton of Brooks Brothers stuff. And I'm like, okay, here's my angle. It wasn't sure exactly what I was going to do. Right. How were you at this time, real quick? This would have been eight years ago, so it would have been 27. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So on the spot, I'm like, hey, what's your shirt size?

Starting point is 00:30:08 I'm a Jose Bank guy. I want to get you a shirt. And I remember I'm looking at me like, dude, you're either weird or you have a crush on me. Like, this is like, this is, you know, like, you gave me this, like, quirky look. He's like, I'm a 37, 16 and a half. I'm like, great. So as luck would have it, his flight's getting delayed as he's coming into town. Like, he's texting me, do you want to cancel?

Starting point is 00:30:28 like, no, we'll go to the game late. Don't worry about it. So I'm like, I've been thinking about doing this, but when the flights started to get delayed, I was like, that was my, like, you know, God's telling me I need to do this kind of thing. And my business partner's like, you're crazy, but let's see what happens. So the plan was I went up to Brooks Brothers with the sizes that he wore, and I said, I want one of everything in the new collection. So jackets, sweaters, shirts, you name it.

Starting point is 00:30:54 It was like $7,000 with a clothes. So put the MX down. You know, the cashiers like, you're like, this is crazy. So I take a carload of clothes over to the Ritz and go to the GM and say, hey, there's a VIP coming into town. Would you like to do something awesome? And they said, of course, what are you thinking? And so I said, well, I want to merchandise his room to look like Brooks Brothers. And they said, wow, okay.

Starting point is 00:31:16 So we went up, merchandised the sweaters here, whatever else. He came in. I said, he's like, do you want me to just leave my bags? I said, no, go up to your room and come down whenever you're ready. And he comes down. his eyes are like the size of silver dollars. He's like, John, whatever you want to talk about, as long as you want to talk about it, he's like, I've already texted pictures to people.

Starting point is 00:31:33 I've given, I've called authors back for quotes for books of, like, the best customer service experience. He's like, you're, like, you get my full attention. So, you know, fast forward, he's opened doors to Starbucks executives, and you name it. He's became a personal friend and, you know, invited to his wedding. And so that was a moment, like, when I, you know, that could have went bad. he could have thought I was nuts or whatever, like, any number of things. But that was like one of the first times where I really took it up like 10 notches on how I was going to engage

Starting point is 00:32:06 somebody and appreciate somebody. And the response was overwhelmingly positive. And of course, that feeds, you know, the desire to want to do more of that. And but that was like one of the first real major risks that I took in appreciation. And it went really well and developed a friend and a mentor in the process that's been really revolutionary, at least for us. Wow, that's over the top. What was your thought process leading into that to make you do that? Well, I mean, I think that I'd been asking myself that question of, you know, what's the craziest thing I could do?

Starting point is 00:32:41 And I think I just kind of recognized when I saw a camera and like, here's somebody that could really accelerate our business and open doors. And so when you're teaching people things, you have to model those. You can't just say, like, think creatively or do big things or be a leader if you're not willing to go do it. And I think I'd been playing chicken for, you know, a number of years there where I was maybe teaching people to do it but not actually doing it. And so when I saw that opportunity to say, you know, if I'm going to do something, here's a great guy to really try this on and, you know, see what happens. And so I think it was just a desire to want to model it and see what was possible and see what the response would be. I mean, I'm kind of a curious guy.

Starting point is 00:33:24 I like to look at things differently, and I like to kind of break the normal model of what's possible. And so that was, it wasn't like a magic formula or anything. That's for sure. It was just an opportunity plus right question and right opportunity. I just did it. I love it. I mean, especially just having the mindset of what's the biggest I could do, what's the most I can give, what's the craziest thing I could do. And that kind of leads me into my next question or really a start.

Starting point is 00:33:52 that I'd love for you to share in addition to the Brooks brothers one is awesome and then I have heard you tell the story but I'd love to hear it again I know the listeners here would too but as a guy you know we all are trying there are some of us are married and some are not but the ones we we probably think back to the day that we got engaged and we we think of how we did it and and me personally I'll tell you and it I thought it was pretty awesome but compared to yours it's it's nothing but you know we were building a home together and I decided decided to ask the builder to hold off a couple of days on pouring the foundation of our home. They had dug the hole in the ground for us, right, for our basement.

Starting point is 00:34:31 And I said, can you please hold off? I have, you know, I didn't want to tell anybody. I just so worried about the secret getting out. I said, I'd love to, I want to propose to my, you know, then girlfriend in the found, or prior to the foundation being poured. So in this big dirt hole, hopefully it's not raining on the day that I could do it. And so I want to go down there. I want to put the flowers down and the whole deal and go down there.

Starting point is 00:34:56 And so he did. The builder held off for me and I was able to do it. And actually the plan worked flawlessly. And so I'm like, well, that's a pretty cool story, you know, but I've heard you tell your story. I don't know your plan actually didn't work flawlessly, but I'd love to give you the floor for the listeners here at the Learning and Leader Show to hear your engagement story. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:18 So, yeah, it's, uh, well, kudos to you. I mean, that's very romantic. I mean, the idea of building your foundation together and proposing. And, dude, there's a lot of great tie-ins there of, man. I mean, it is super romantic. What I was going for. Yeah, man, I mean, those flowers are now parted in the cement. You're right.

Starting point is 00:35:35 They're there forever. You're right. Dude, it's, yeah, man, I'm, yeah, I love it. I'm going to use that in some way, shape, or form. Either the story, it would have, where else? Please do. So mine was probably inspired out of, maybe other, you know, your listeners can relate to this.

Starting point is 00:35:54 But I was an entrepreneur and then, you know, 2007, 2008, like I had been doing a lot of different things and spread myself too thin and started investing in things in real estate. And then everything hit the fan, like 2007, 2008 happened. I found out my assistant was stealing from me. I had sold half the business. And it was like on the verge of bankruptcy, really. And so I was just trying to keep my head above water. We had a death in the family.

Starting point is 00:36:20 everything that could go wrong went wrong. And so I started dating my now wife at that time. So worst possible time to start dating somebody is when you're going through like four life crises all at the same time. So like I'm living on $1,000 a month. Like that's all I'm pulling out of the business. Like I'm like, you know, like we're not going out to dinner and doing like romantic things. Like we're cooking in, you know, like I remember I think the first time we went out.

Starting point is 00:36:47 Like she may have even paid or paid for like her portion. It was like everything that I would teach my daughters to look for to run, like when they're dating a guy, like I probably did during that year time. So when it came time to get engaged, I wanted to show, you know, one, to reward her commitment and going through hell with me, basically. You know, because she definitely wasn't, you know, she wasn't coming at me for my money. That's for sure. At that time, it was like really, you know, it was a bad, bad stretch. But I wanted to reward her and I wanted to show her that, like, she was the most important. important person, like out of, because I created these crazy experiences in business, I wanted

Starting point is 00:37:24 the experience for her to be beyond anything I'd ever done for a client. So that's kind of the backstory. So our favorite, I'm kind of a cheesy sap when it comes to movies. We love the notebook. And so I took that kind of the theme of what was going to be the engagement. So I spent a long time writing out our story in this leatherbound book. There's like 50 pages of like, in details she would have thought I'd forgotten about and wrote out this like, you know, saga of story that was true as us. And then I took a little iPad or a little iPod mini, I think, had just coming out at the time or something like that, and recorded myself reading it to her. So the plan was my brothers graduated from film school and works in Hollywood and whatever else

Starting point is 00:38:08 for mixed movies. So she had moved to St. Louis. She had moved to Ohio for a time. She got a job in St. Louis. And we talked about, you know, eventually when we got married, I would, you know, I would move to St. Louis. But we were splitting time. And so it's Valentine's Day weekend was coming up. And she's not expecting an engagement. Maybe like a cool gift, maybe, but not an engagement. So the plan was I would fly into, without her knowing, my brother and I would fly into the airport

Starting point is 00:38:34 in St. Louis. We had duffel bags that we'd be able to take into a bathroom. And I would basically get transformed into an 80-year-old man with latex makeup and fake teeth and glasses and look like I gained 100 pounds. and all these other things. And then my brother would go deliver this box that would have instructions in it that would say, listen to the, you know, John has a great weekend planned. And then the whole idea was the box got lost at the airport, quotation marks.

Starting point is 00:39:01 And so I flew him down to deliver it to her, and she would listen to our story on the ground and then listen to the second half in the air. And I'd orchestrated it with Continental to be sitting beside her on the plane without her knowing about it. Dressed up as an old guy. dressed up as this 100 pound 80 year old old guy. So like she's no way for her to recognize you. No way she'd recognize me.

Starting point is 00:39:22 And it gets to the end of the story and it talks about growing old together because in the notebook it's like about this couple and their story and like they every, every day he reads the story to her and then she remembers who he is for like 10 minutes. So it's like this. So on the plane it would get to the end like would you, would you love me when I gain 100 pounds and I wear like crazy NASCAR stuff? And I describe the person sitting next to her and she'll, realized that it's me in the back of the notebook, kind of like Shawshank Redemption, is that I sealed with wax and cut into it the rings in the back of this notebook to crack open at 30,000 feet, get down on one knee, proposed to her.

Starting point is 00:39:59 And then her family, I had gotten up to Ohio. So her mom and sister, everybody are waiting in a stretch Hummer limousine with my family to pick them up from the airport with a photographer of us getting off the plane. And then our closest 50 friends, I'd rented out a restaurant to celebrate in with our closest 50 friends, her family, you know, this amazing moment in time and, you know, the engagement and whatever else. Wow. So that was how it was supposed to go down. Now, what was interesting is everything went perfectly according to plan. We did a makeup run the night before. My brother and I fly in.

Starting point is 00:40:34 We deliver this box. Or she delivered, my brother delivers this box to Lindsay. She gets the box. She's on cloud nine. She's listening to it. She's reading it. The people from the airplane or the airport come and escort me on because I'm old. I get to get on the plane first.

Starting point is 00:40:48 So I'm going to get on the plane. And right at the jet bridge, I collapse. And the guy's like, is this part of the plan? So they roll me. They're like, hey, John, come on, come on. And they're like, and I'm not moving. So they roll me over. And my face is like solid blood.

Starting point is 00:41:05 They're like, oh, this is not. So called 911. Another pilot comes over off of another plane. and they're like, oh, this guy's having a heart attack. And meanwhile, Lindsay's watching this happen. She's like, why is this old guy? Like, this is crazy. And my brother is in the corner calling my mom saying, you know, like John's on the ground.

Starting point is 00:41:23 Like, I have no idea what's going on. He's freaking out. So they pull off the defibrillator off the wall. They put it on me and then says to shock me. So they shock me. So at this point, they're cutting clothes off and pulling, you know, they're like, why is this guy in disguise? The wig's coming off. And Lindsay then recognizes me.

Starting point is 00:41:40 And she goes from being like on cloud. 147 to like the depths of hell. She's like, what is going on? Like, she's freaking. They're building a wall of people around me to keep her away. Now, FBI and everybody's being alerted because there's a guy getting on an airplane in disguise, you know. And so, like, the police are showing, the police are showing up.

Starting point is 00:42:01 They put me, they can't stabilize me. They put me into an ambulance. They put Lindsay in the back of a cop car with my brother to follow the ambulance. They won't allow her to be in the ambulance because she's not family. She's like just amassed tears and then she finds out from the cop that the reason I was in disguise is I was going to propose And that that got me off the hook my brother showed him the ring so that proved that like I wasn't like a terrorist or whatever else So they race me to the hospital going to ICU. I'm on a breathing machine She's like still hysterical my mom flies in the next day

Starting point is 00:42:35 Meanwhile everybody's getting text messages that John had a heart attack that you know the party's off So long and short, they do all these tests. I wake up the next morning, and I think it's the funniest thing on the planet because I'm on drugs and I'm like, I just like good stories. And like Lindsay's like devastated. And here's what happened. Basically, I had been on this like crazy like no carb diet cleanse type thing for like six weeks. And so I go to the airport in disguise. I'm scared to death.

Starting point is 00:43:05 I'm going to get proposed. I'm going to go propose. I'm scared to death. I'm in disguise. I don't drink or eat anything the entire day because of the makeup and the latex. And so I have a low blood sugar seizure. And the machine misread it. So they shocked me with shut down all my systems because they're already weak because of the diet.

Starting point is 00:43:23 So I almost died basically. And they had to put me on the breathing machine and whatever else. I recovered and like six days later on the same flight, not in disguise. We read the rest of the book. We read, listened to it. And then at 30,000 feet I got down on one knee. And she didn't know the ring was in the back, which was. was cool. So I pulled that out and proposed to her. So the interesting thing about all of this

Starting point is 00:43:45 is people are like, oh, that's amazing. It's the best gift ever. You know, the coolest thing. One, my wife hated it. So she, like, to this day, doesn't want to talk about it, even though I still think it's a cool story. But what I realized in retrospect is I made the gift about what I wanted versus about what she really wanted. So the big aha and the big lesson is even when you do something amazing, like you still have to make it about the recipient, because if you make it about yourself, then you're, you know, you're a douchebag. Like, it's not what, you know, like, it's not, if it had gone well, she, she would have liked it, but she would have been just as happy if I'd gotten down on one knee, you know, on a nice walk,

Starting point is 00:44:25 you know, or done something like what you did with the house. Like, she would have been more appreciative of that. Like, I made it a show and not necessarily what she wanted. So it was a painful last. lesson, very expensive, painful lesson to learn with your wife. But I've since gotten way better at giving gifts to, you know, to my most important relationship over the last, you know, six, seven, eight years. Wow.

Starting point is 00:44:52 You know, I definitely see the point, but I do love the story, man. I'm glad you shared it. I really do appreciate you sharing that because you will have that story for life. And on top of that, you know, use it as a learning. opportunity, which is, which makes even better. So, but no, John, this episode has been awesome, man. I really enjoy talking with you. And I definitely want to do it again, but I do have one, one final question for you before we take off here. Absolutely. This show, you know, it's, first of all, it's been awesome. The response from listeners and, and guests alike, has just

Starting point is 00:45:27 been incredible. So I'm very grateful for that. But this show is about, about the two topics that I, I really am passionate about. That's leadership, I've been in leadership my entire life since I've been very, very young and about learning and learning and constantly improving, getting better, always being very conscious of the fact that we need to strive to get better to learn. And so that's why it's called The Learning Leader Show. And I want to say to you, when you think of that phrase, or maybe you think of that person, is there a definition or is there a picture that pops into your mind when you hear the phrase learning leader?

Starting point is 00:46:06 Yeah, well, I think the first person that comes to mind is my first mentor, Paul, the attorney, who I learned a lot of what I teach from. I think he was that he wasn't a loud speaker. He wasn't, you know, didn't try to be the center of attention, but he led by example. And I think that, you know, the best leaders, you know, aren't necessarily always the most charismatic, although sometimes they are. And he was somebody that, you know, every day he was constantly reading and, surrounding himself with, you know, unique, interesting people, people that a lot of times,

Starting point is 00:46:37 you know, might get overlooked. Like, he just had this curiosity. And so I'd have to say, yeah, my first mentor, Paul would be the first person that, you know, he's somebody that I've kind modeled a lot of my interactions and relationship building and life after. And ironically, you know, he had three daughters and I have my third daughter on the way. So I don't know what that says about my ability to project even, I told my wife, when we, when we got I think we're going to have four girls and I'm three for three so far. Good for you. But yeah, he's my learning leader example.

Starting point is 00:47:13 I love it. And that is, that's so cool that you've been able to take so much learning, you know, learnings from him and implement it. Because I think a lot of people, and I talk about this too, a lot of people see others and they like, oh, I should do that. And then it kind of stops at that point. But to actually the implementation, the execution of that is really, really cool. And so, but John, no, seriously, I really, really appreciate you being a friend here of the Learning Leader Show.

Starting point is 00:47:40 And I look forward to continue talking with you. Where can people, fans of yours now, where can they go to find you online? Yeah, I mean, we have two different websites, Johnrulin.com and Rulins, RU-H, L-I-N. They can follow me on Twitter at Rulin. And then Ruling Group as well.com are a three pretty easy places. to find me or connect with me. Perfect. All right, man. Again, really, really appreciate it, John,

Starting point is 00:48:08 and look forward to talking to you soon, man. All right. Thanks, Ryan. All right, bye. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you.

Starting point is 00:48:28 You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 038: John Ruhlin – Working The Gratitude Muscle | Strategic Appreciation And Gift Giving

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