The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 041: Bob Burg - Long Term Success The Go-Giver Way | Winning People Over Without Manipulation

Episode Date: July 30, 2015

Episode 041: Bob Burg - Long Term Success The Go-Giver Way | Winning People Over Without Manipulation Bob Burg is one of the most giving human beings I’ve ever met.  Prior to us recording this episode, Bob consistently went out of his way to try and help me prepare and improve my podcast… Since we recorded he has introduced me to many extremely intelligent learning leaders.  I am so grateful to Bob and so fortunate to call him a friend.  This was a fantastic episode where we covered a ton of topics ranging from the definition of success to the importance of great sales professionals. Bob Burg is a sought-after speaker at corporate conferences and for entrepreneurial events. He regularly addresses audiences ranging in size from 50 to 16,000 — sharing the platform with notables including today’s top thought leaders, broadcast personalities, Olympic athletes and political leaders including a former United States President. Although for years he was best known for his book Endless Referrals, over the past few years it’s his business parable, The Go-Giver (coauthored with John David Mann) that has captured the heart and imagination of his readers. Bob’s newest book is Adversaries into Allies: Win People over without Manipulation or Coercion. Episode 041: Bob Burg - Long Term Success The Go-Giver Way | Winning People Over Without Manipulation Subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher Radio. The Learning Leader Show “Money is an echo of value.” Some Questions I Ask: What is the greatest piece of advice you share with others? What separates the average performers from the best? How do we implement these strategies into action? What are your thoughts on go getters? Would you consider Elon Musk and Steve Jobs “Go Givers?” What is your definition of success? Which individual leader has had the most influence on you? In This Episode, You Will Learn: The 5 Laws of Stratospheric Success The importance of Zig Ziglar in his life Shifting from an “I” focus to an “other” focus The definition of selling (Focusing on the needs of others) The law of value and the law of influence The elements that define a quality life  “Show me your friends, and I’ll show you your future.” – John Wooden Continue Learning Go To Bob’s website: www.Burg.com   Read: The Go Giver Follow Bob on Twitter: @BobBurg You may also like these episodes: Episode 001: How To Become A Master Connector With Jayson Gaignard From MasterMind Talks Episode 002: How To Take Over And Set Bigger Goals With Chris Brogan Episode 004: How Todd Wagner (and Mark Cuban) Sold Broadcast.com To Yahoo! For $5.7 Billion Episode 010: Shane Snow – How To Accelerate Success Using Smart Cuts Did you enjoy the podcast? This was a jam packed episode full of great content.  Bob Burg is a leader who is constantly learning in order to help us all live a better life. Who do you know that needs to hear this?  Send them to The Learning Leader Show! Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell   Bio From Burg.com    Bob Burg is a sought-after speaker at corporate conferences and for entrepreneurial events. He regularly addresses audiences ranging in size from 50 to 16,000 — sharing the platform with notables including today’s top thought leaders, broadcast personalities, Olympic athletes and political leaders including a former United States President. Although for years he was best known for his book Endless Referrals, over the past few years it’s his business parable, The Go-Giver (coauthored with John David Mann) that has captured the heart and imagination of his readers. Bob’s newest book is Adversaries into Allies: Win People Over Without Manipulation or Coercion. Bob is an advocate, supporter and defender of the Free Enterprise system, believing that the amount of money one makes is directly proportional to how many people they serve. And, he is also an unapologetic animal fanatic.   For more information, articles and free resources, please visit www.Burg.com

If someone is a sales professional, they are just that. They are a professional. And a professional is always, again, to borrow from the great Dr. Stephen Covey, sharpening their saw. They're always learning. They're always growing. They're always studying. They're always implementing. So understanding sales, the process, everything about very, very important. What I would say, though, is that it's typically not the determining factor when it comes to ultimate success. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. And welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk and I'm extremely excited about tonight's featured leader. It's with the great Bob Bird, bestselling author.

He sold over a million copies of his books, including The Go Giver, which is a great one. I highly recommend you pick up. Bob regularly addresses audiences ranging in size from 50 to 16,000, sharing the platform with notables, including today's top thought leaders, broadcast personalities, Olympic athletes, and political leaders, including a former United States president. In our conversation tonight, it was jam-packed. We covered five laws of stratospheric success. Bob goes deep there.

I know you're going to like that part. And also, how Steve Jobs was the definition of a go-giver. Many people don't realize that, but Bob will explain that in detail and you'll like that part. And Adam Grant, his book Give and Take, there's a great study done on what is the determining factor for the top producing salespeople. And we talked about that on our conversation tonight. I know you guys are going to enjoy that. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's the great Bob Berg.

All right, Bob, again, I'm very, very excited to have you. here on the Learning Leaders Show. I'm curious, I have a quick question to get this kicked off. What is the greatest piece of advice you've ever received? One of them is from my dad who quoted the sages, who asked, who is a wise person and their answer, that person who learns from all others. Wow, man, that's perfect for this show. So a wise person who learns from all over.

That's what I'm all about. And I love that you brought that up. When people come to you, you know, you're obviously a mentor figure to a lot of people. And is that the advice you give to them or is there another piece that you add on to it? Well, you know, I would say that really one of the best things we can ever do, both in living a good life and a very successful life. And when I say success, I mean, in all the various ways we can define success or context such as financial, physical, spiritual, mental, emotional, social, relational, have you, and that is to do your best to move from an eye focus or me focus to an other focus. And I think that when we can do that, we create that context of creating those no like and

trust relationships that, first of all, feel great and they also serve everyone involved. Yeah, and obviously you're famous for that, for what you've written just last night as I was preparing for our time together. I reread your great book, The Go Giver. Oh, thank you. And it, you know, obviously it reminds me, one of my favorite writers in addition to you is a guy by the name of Adam Grant, who I know you know very well, who wrote Give and Take. Adam's a great friend and a great guy. He is, and you guys have a lot of similarities, which is kind of, I guess, maybe why I'm

fans of both of you guys in a big way. So that's why I'm honored to have you here. I'd love to give you, you know, give you the floor here for a minute, though, to give your, I don't want to say bio, but to give a little story around what you're currently doing and how you've gotten to this point. I know that could probably take an hour, but if we could distill it and you kind of share your quick story, I'd love for the listeners here to hear it. Yeah, we can do very much the Reader's Digest version. I began as a broadcaster, first in radio and then television, not particularly good at it,

quickly graduated into sales, knew nothing about sales. So I began to learn. I began to study the master such as Tom Hopkins and Zig Zigler and I, you know, taking my dad's advice, right, learn from others. And so as I began to really become proficient in sales and work my way up to sales manager of an organization, eventually I started teaching others what was working for me and began speaking on the topic. And I've been doing that now for, gosh, I guess a little over 25 years and still selling, of course, because it's always still about sales. So, you know, it's just been a lot of fun. So I get to speak all over the place, write, and have great conversations with new friends such as you and hopefully make some kind of a difference. That's really cool. And I like to hear from you talking about sales. That's my first role. And I still work in the profession of sales every day, just like you said, we all are on a database.

My dad has worked in that profession, has pretty much his entire professional life. He's written a book about it, all these things. And so it's really neat to be. be able to dive into that aspect of what you're all about. And you know, go ahead. Oh, go, excuse me. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, go ahead.

You know, I was going to say, I just absolutely loved the Father's Day article you wrote on your dad. What a wonderful man. And just, it was so impressive. And, you know, when I think of sales and selling, and we know that so many people, Ryan, have a misperception about selling. They tend to think that selling is trying to convince somebody. to buy something they don't want or need.

And of course, that's the very opposite of selling. In fact, I wouldn't even, I wouldn't call that selling. I would call that being a con artist. Selling can really be defined as discovering what someone else wants, needs, or desires, and helping them to get it. And I think that's obviously, from what I read in your article, that's what your dad did so well with everyone whose lives he touches. And what you've been doing, and it's a, you know, it's a fantastic,

thing and we like people to really know sales is not do something you do to someone it's something you do with someone it's something you do for someone yeah it's an extremely noble profession and really the economy the world would come to a grinding halt if sales professionals did not exist exactly and so it's that's why you know like i said i'm a big fan of what you do and and now to see you know the success you're having by teaching others to help one another to give is very, very inspiring. And I got to believe for you, the feeling you get when you see that what you're doing inspires others.

It almost is helping create a better place for all of us to be in. What is that feeling like inside of you when you see that effect you have on people? Gosh, you know what? It has to be similar to when you would pull off a great play action pass and just hit that guy, you know, right in the hands as he was done. diving into the end zone. It's just nothing, you know, there's, there's nothing like it. It's really what, it's really what the profession is all about. Yeah, I'm, I'm, that's very cool, cool story. So I, I want to dig in, if you don't mind to your book, the most, the go giver real

quick, because that's the one I read last night. And really, we talk about the five laws of stratospheric success. And, you know, you could go a number of different ways here. But, thinking about those five laws, what specifically for the people who have not read it yet, how would you describe those to those people who will probably get your book after this podcast? Well, how would I describe them as far as what they represent altogether or individual? Well, you know, it's interesting because people have often said, especially when they see the title, the go-giver, they say, so are you and John David Man, and John David Manor was. my co-author, really the lead writer and storyteller, just a brilliant guy. I'm much more about a

how-to, step-by-state, you know, one, two, step one, step two, step three person. But people have often asked, are you guys, nice guys, nice gals, nice people finish first? And surprisingly to them, no, that's not what we're saying at all. Now, don't get me wrong, being nice, and when I say nice, I'm using that interchangeably with kind, is a great thing, both for its own sake, and also because, let's face it, if you're building a business, most people would rather get to know, be in relationship with and do business with someone who's nice rather than someone who's nasty. But it's also not enough in and of itself. And I think I can say that with confidence because you and I and everyone listening to this, we all know plenty of people who we would describe

as being simply nice people, who we would also have to describe as being simply broke people. So, again, while being nice is a great thing, it's very helpful. It's not enough. Success is a matter of doing the correct things in the success process that allows a person to be successful and finish first, if you will. The five laws that John and I provide in the book are simply meant to share those principles, Ryan, that if someone will follow them, not just one, two, three, or even four of them, but all five of them, they must be successful. So I guess you could say these laws, these principles are a framework. Yeah, and so you get into, let's dive into the law of value. What do you mean by that? Well, this law says that your true worth is determined by

how much more you give in value than you take in payment. Now, the challenge with this is that when you first hear it, it sounds a little counterintuitive, almost counterproductive, give more in value than I take in payment. How am I supposed to survive in my business? Never mind, thrive. It kind of sounds like a recipe for bankruptcy. Give more in value than I take in payment. So we simply have to understand the difference between price and value. Price is a dollar figure. It's a dollar amount. It's finite.

It is what it is. Value, on the other hand, is the relative worth or the desirability of something, of a thing, to the end user or beholder. In other words, what is it about this thing, this product, service, concept, opportunity, idea that brings with it so much value that a person will exchange. that willingly exchange their money for this and be ecstatic that they did while the seller, business person, what have you, makes a profit. We could give a very quick example of an accountant who you hired to do your tax returns, and this accountant charges you $1,000 to do so.

That's his fee, or literally it's his price. But what value does he give you an exchange? Well, first, through his years of learning his craft, through his diligence, through his focus on you and bringing value to you, making your life easier, getting to know you and your business and what you're looking to accomplish, he's able to save you $5,000. But he also saves you countless hours of work. He also provides you and your family with the peace of mind of knowing it was done correctly. So we see, again, where price is finite, value is both concrete in terms of that $5,000 savings. you can get your arms around that pretty easily, but also conceptual in terms of the peace of mind,

which probably holds even more value than the savings itself. So what he did is he gave you well over $5,000 in use value in exchange for a $1,000 price or cash value. He literally gave you more in value than he took in payment. So you feel great about it. And he also made a very, very healthy profit. And in fact, in a free market-based economy, which is embodied by people freely doing business with one another, no one's forced to do business with one another, there are always two profits, the buyer profits and the seller profits. But it begins with the focus of the salesperson. And this is why the focus being on providing value, not the focus being on the money. And this is why we say that money is simply an echo of value. It's the thunder to

values lightning, which means that the value must come first and the money you receive is simply a very natural and direct result of the value you've provided. Okay, wow. I love diving in here. And so one of the other laws I want to talk about is the law of influence. And the reason why, I mean, I feel like I've spoken with a number of people who have influence over others. Even a guy by the name of John Levy, who's become a friend of mine, lives in New York City, he runs a group called the influencers where he has people who are influential in all different types of industries over to his house for dinner. And he's been doing that for three or four years. And it's incredible the type of network he's built from that. But the law of influence, talk to me more about that.

Well, this says that your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first. Now, again, this one sounds not only counterproductive, this one sounds downright, Polyanna-ish. And yet, when you think of it, and I know, you're a leader, your dad's a leader, you study leaders. So you know this. The greatest leaders, the top influencers, the most financially lucrative salespeople, this is simply. how they run their lives and conduct their businesses. They're always thinking of others. They're always looking to bring value to others. Now, if I can qualify this for a moment, this statement, when we say place other people's interests first, we don't mean you should be anyone's doormat or that you should be

a martyr or that you should be self-sacrificial in any way, not at all. Everything you do as you place this other person's interest first should have two elements to it. One, it's congruent. It's with your values to its win-win in nature, as the great Dr. Stephen Covey used to talk about. So the reason we say this is, again, we go back to one of the bed doors of the story told Joe the protege, the golden rule of business of sales of networking, is that all things being equal people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like, and trust. And there's simply no faster, more powerful, or more effective way to elicit those feelings toward you from others, Ryan, then by genuinely stepping outside yourself.

And as Sam, one of the bit doors of the story said, making your win about the other person's win. So I want to ask a question in regards to what you just said. I've been reading a lot about, recently, about two really, I would say, famous historic leaders, and one of them is still alive. That's Steve Jobs and Elon Musk. And so there are, some would say, are controversial. And I'd love to get your take on these guys because, you know, if you dig into the way that they've treated people, you get a mix of responses to some people.

I guess the best way to put it is they were both incredibly polarizing. They have people who absolutely detest them for the way they've been treated by them personally. People, if you talk to former employees or people that have worked with them. and they do have others who literally love them more than just about anything in life and think there are geniuses beyond anyone else has ever been in the last, I don't know, a big number of years. So when you talk about being a go-giver, you talk about putting the needs of others first,

you talk about the great leaders in history have all done that. And when you say that, I think of like Abraham Lincoln and people like that who surround himself with cabinet members who beat, who he were his fierce, his rivals as he was trying to become president. So I think of him. But then I think of Elon and I think of Steve Jobs.

And they're completely, Elon and Steve Jobs are in one camp, Abraham Lincoln and a completely different one. Both have had a lot of success. What do you think about that? Okay. So let's look at that. I've studied Steve Jobs quite a bit, aside from a number of articles and reading about him or articles, books, reading about him watching specials.

I thought Walter Isaacson's book, Steve Jobs, was a magnificent work. And so I actually don't know much about Elon Musk personally. I haven't studied him a whole lot. But from what you say, there's similarities between with him and jobs. So let's look at that. And let's take jobs as a how do we justify that in terms of the go-giver and so forth. Well, here's what I would say.

If you look at what jobs did, first of all, the team that he got around him, Yeah, he was not the nicest person. He was not the most necessarily the pleasant person from everything we hear. But he had a way of bringing people into his company and instilling them with a feeling that they were making a difference. What he did is he connected his wants and desires with their wants and desires. In other words, they felt people who worked with Steve Jobs felt they were doing something. totally congruent with their values. They were accomplishing something, okay? But let's also look at it another way. Let's look at how he is with the consumer, because we say give more in value than you take

in payment. Well, his iPods, the iPads, the I, everything else he has, okay, which the iPhones, right, which, well, you know, people stand in line when those things come out. They're, those are not inexpensive. Those are fairly expensive, high end. And yet, people stand in line. They fight to get them. Why? Because the people buying them believe they are receiving more in value than what they're paying. So he had to follow that law.

First, in terms of people working with them, remember, in the free market, which he is involved with, people aren't going to work for him unless they believe they're better off doing so than not doing so. So he had a way of really instilling them with sort of a pride of ownership. So he gave more in value to them than what he received. And of course, he received plenty from them because they had great work. He gave more in value to the end user who bought all his eye products. And of course, he made a fantastic profit on each of them, which has made them, I think, the wealthiest company in the world.

So definitely followed the law of value. the law of compensation, law number two, says your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. Well, more than a few people have bought his products. And so, again, it's not only the great value and the exceptional value in his products, but it's the fact that he has served hundreds of millions of people with those products, and he had, I don't know if it's hundreds of millions, but, you know, the tens of millions of people with those products, and he made a fortune. Now, what about the law of law? of influence, placing the other person's interests first. Well, with the, there was a great story

Walter Isaacson told about when Jobs was with Pixar. And they had toy story in the making. And they had to do a whole bunch of iterations of the main characters because when they were test marketing it, the audience did not like those characters. And if they had they not changed, the temperaments of the characters, they wouldn't have sold as many movies. And so what Steve Jobs had to do was he had to place the interests of the buyers, the filmgoers, before him. Now, it's often been said that people didn't know, you know, with his eye products, with his Apple products, people didn't know what they wanted. He let them know. But you know what? If he was wrong, they wouldn't have bought. So he had to place their interest first. In other words, the only way,

The only way Steve Jobs could have a buying public is by placing their interests first. It wasn't what he liked. It was what we like. Now, it just so happened. He was a genius. And what he liked was what we liked. And that was one reason for his success. The law number four, the law of authenticity says the most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself.

Well, he certainly was himself. He didn't try to be anybody else. He was authentic to the core. and law number five, the law of receptivity says the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving. I'd say a guy who, you know, became a billionaire was pretty open to receiving. So he was actually totally in alignment with the laws of the go-giver. And I assume Elon Musk the same thing. Because in a free market-based economy, not that we live in a free market-based economy. We live in a mixed economy. However, there are certain industries that are more free-market-based economy. But,

based than others. And again, when I say free market, I mean no one's forced to buy from anyone else. And in that kind of society or economy, you can only make a fortune by following those laws. Yeah, that's a great explanation of it. And I would also call both of those guys go-getters, like Joe, the main character in your book, who is frustrated. and, you know, you hear sometimes that phrase used as a positive attribute in a person. They are a go-getter. You know, hey, you know, Joe is a go-getter.

You know, he's making things happen. So are you, what do you say about people who use that phrase go-getter as a description of others? Yeah. Well, you know, semantics are always a part of the conversation because we all define words and things in different ways. Personally, we love go-getters. Why? Well, go-getters get things done. One of my favorite books of all time was a parable written years and years ago by Peter Kine called A Go-Getter. Yeah, go-getters. We know we're business people and everyone listening to this is.

And we know that you can have the best ideas, the greatest thoughts, the most fantastic intentions, but unless actions put into the mix, nothing's going to happen. It simply cannot happen. So, no, we want people to be go-getters. Now, the nice thing about it, is that there's no natural separation between a go-getter and a go-giver. Many go-getters are also go-givers, and we would say that every go-giver is also a go-getter. We believe that the opposite of a go-giver is not a go-getter. The opposite of a go-giver is a go-taker. And that's that person who feels almost entitled, if you will, to take, take, take, without having added value to the person, to the process, to the situation.

And they tend to be very frustrated people because they rarely attain the kind of success they want. And even in those times when they do, because they do sometimes, it typically doesn't last longer. They're always fighting and struggling to maintain it because it has their success has not been built on the correct foundation. And yet they tend to think everyone else is naive. Now, in the story, Joe at the beginning was a frustrated go-getter. but he was frustrated because he was also a go-taker. At the beginning, everything was about Joe, his quota. Who owe Joe?

I often say when I speak at sales conferences, Ryan, the first thing I'll say is nobody's going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet. And we all laugh because we know that's true. They're not going to buy because you need the money. They're not going to buy because you want them to buy or even because you think their product's great. They're going to buy because they believe they have good reasons for doing so, which is the way it should be.

And so once Joe met Pindar and some of the other mentors, and he began to shift that focus. And instead of saying, what can I take? It was how can I give value to others? Now things began to change. I spoke with, I wasn't going to go here, but you just made me think of it. So I spoke with a great, one of the greatest cut-go sales guys of all time. His name is Hal Elrod. A lot of people know how he wrote a great book called The Miracle Morning as well.

and how the reason I'm bringing this up is because it contradicts a little bit of what what of maybe what you're saying about a go taker and and that is the fact that how is the beginning of his sales pitch for cutco and maybe this is different because you know this is like door to door type selling however it's still selling part of his pitch was he would walk in and he would show the potential buyer this big goal sheet that howe had as well as his quota and what he needed to earn like the rewards trip or whatever or to say I need this I need I need to sell this much so he he in a way made it a little bit about himself and this actually became he became wildly successful and went on to train and teach others to do the same thing at cutco and I you know how

and I've talked a couple of times both on the podcast and outside of and I said how I've always been under the impression that we shouldn't make selling about ourselves we should you know I I I don't like hearing a sales professional say tell a potential buyer, hey, I'm a little bit short of my quota and this would put me over. Can you help me out? And so I don't like that. I think that is takerish. I think it's making about yourself.

And as a consumer, as a buyer, I don't want to hear that from a person selling to me either. Now, I guess I'm compassionate so I feel for them, but still, you know, I need to make sure that the value is being provided to me if I'm going to buy something. So what do you think when you hear about someone who's, had an immense amount of success sharing their goals, showing the picture of the trip they could go on if they get enough sales. You know, first I have not had the honor to read Hal's book, and so I certainly don't want to, you know, in any way, opine on something I haven't read.

Other than, you know, every so often you come across someone who is just so proficient at what they do that they get. away with doing things that probably wouldn't work for the rest of us. Now, if he has trained other people to do that and it's worked, you know, I got to say it's an anomaly because I've met very few people in my time that could go in with an eye focus like that and succeed over time. I mean, you know, I've heard of people going, so I really need this. Can you do me a favor and buy this from me because I want to go on it? I can't believe it ever works ever, okay? But I know it does sometimes.

It's difficult for me to see how that would be something duplicatable, but obviously he's done it, and he's been hugely, hugely successful. And so there's, you know, I can't really offer, you know, an explanation for that other than it's something certainly that's, you know, that's a different way of doing things. And hey, you know, if it's been successful for him and others that he's worked with, I congratulate him. even if it's not an area where we would have agreement. Yeah, that leads me to my next thought. So companies as a whole across the world globally spend millions upon billions of dollars teaching their sales professionals, all of the skills, techniques. And obviously, you help train and lead people to do that. Would you say that you downplay selling skills and techniques?

or what is your thoughts around that? That's a great question. I don't think I downplayed. I think it's very important. If someone is a sales professional, they are just that. They are a professional. And a professional is always, again, to borrow from the great Dr. Stephen Covey, sharpening their saw.

They're always learning. They're always growing. They're always studying. They're always implementing. So understanding, sales, the process, everything about very, very important. What I would say, though, is they're always learning. that it's typically not the determining factor when it comes to ultimate success. Let me put it this way.

There are certain things that would seem to be the reason that people are ultra successful. If we say what separates the reasonably successful salespeople or even just the average salespeople from the top of the line, I mean the top huge money earning producers, someone might think, well, it's belief in their product or having a great product. And certainly that's, you know, great salespeople typically have wonderful belief in their product and they have an excellent product. But you know what? So do average salespeople. So again, while that's important, it's not the determining factor. Someone might say, well, what about product knowledge? Don't the top salespeople? Don't they know their product inside, outside, backwards, forward, sideways, diagonally, everything. Yes, they do. But so do many average salespeople. So is it important? Absolutely. Is it the determining factor? I don't think so. And then it might be well. The best salespeople are the people who make a study of sales. They know every approach, every opening, every close, every answer to every objection to this and that. Do they? Well, sure. But so do many average salespeople. So, you know, I would say this, having a great product and belief in your product, having excellent product knowledge, being well skilled, well-schooled, studying sales. very, very important. But that's, all of those are simply the entry fee, if you will, to being able to play. They're not the determining factor. What is the determining factor? What is it that really separates the top producer from everyone else? And I think Adam Grant and his wonderful book,

Give and Take, really summed it up beautifully when he cited a survey of Australian financial advisors, stockbrokers. And these were the top of the top, the top, the cream of the crop. These were the people who, wow, did they just do a fantastic job and the biggest, highest income earners? What was it they wanted to know was the difference maker? And in this study, they found that absolutely they had a great financial acumen, very, very important for a financial advisor. They were willing to work very hard. Again, that's so important. But the determining factor was that the top pro do the top of the line highest producing financial advisors place the interest of their

clients before themselves and even before their companies and as a result they made the most money for themselves and for their companies yeah i love that part in the book it's awesome to read and to see that those people have success now let's let me ask you this is for the listener who wants to have actionable takeaways. So you hear that and it sounds great. And you're like, wow, cool. Okay, I'm going to go back to my job and I work in sales and I'm going to make sure I place the interest of the person buying ahead of mine.

Okay, cool. Now, how do you actually implement and execute when you see that study, you hear you saying it in a nice, enthusiastic way? And I love it. I'm getting kind of excited here if you can't tell. But how do you implement that? How do you make sure on a day-to-day basis, let's say you're going, you sell copying machines and you're going door-to-door, whatever, you're sending appointments, how do you make sure that you implement what Adam Grant and others have learned of placing the interest of the buyer of the person you're working with ahead of your own and your company? I think the key to understand is, you know, when we were talking about value being the relative worth or desirability, it's understanding this very key point.

value is always in the eyes of the beholder. It's not what we think is valuable about our copying machine or our computer, our widget, or this, or whatever it is we're selling, our accounting services, or our graphic design, or whatever it is we do. It's not what we find to be a value. It's not what we think they should think is of value. It's what they believe is of value. How do you determine that? And I bet your dad did this as great as anyone in his distinguished sales career, and that is you ask questions, and then you listen. You find out exactly what it is that this person needs, wants, and desires. In fact, what are my great friends, Sean Woodruff? I love what he says. He says a professional salesperson connects the benefits of their product

or service with the wants, needs, and desires of the customer. So we ask them. We ask them, and we listen to what they say, and then we ask ourselves, okay, how can I connect the benefits of my product or service with what they are looking for? Another way to really understand the value as they see it is to go to some of your current customers who are really raving fans of viewers, who are what we call your personal walking ambassadors, and ask them, you know, what is it that you believe I bring to the table? Aside from just, the machine itself, you know, the product itself and the benefits of the product, what is it that I bring to the table that has you as the fantastic loyal customer you have, that you have

been, excuse me. And here's what's going to happen. They are going to give you information that's different from what you think their answer is going to be. Because as human beings, we all see the world through our own unique belief system, our own unique way of looking at the world. We assume that what we find to be of value is what is what someone else finds to be of value. Do we have time for a two-minute story that to, um, of course. Okay. Let's talk about copying machines that you brought up with this reminded me. Because a while back, I was in the market for a copying machine. And so the salesperson came in with his, uh, the person who was just just starting to work there. And he was also, I guess,

the sales manager. So he came in and he's, he's, he's, he's, presenting the machine. He's not really asking me questions. He's just talking about the machine, all the features and benefits, and about how great the price is. Well, as background, when I was in a regular office, I had just moved into my home office, and when I was in my regular office, I had a person who took care of all these things. But with these machines, you've got to go in, you've got to count up all the copies, and you've got to send it. This is all stuff I just don't like to do. Okay. So what I was asking was, you know, how much of a challenge is it going to be for me to have to fiddle around with all the numbers and all the

things, because this is just not what I want to do. I need to kind of really know that this isn't going to take up my time and inconvenience me. He ignored the question. He talked about how the price is so good that it's got, right? This is how it went. Now, the person with him, the new tradee, didn't say anything because, of course, the salesperson is the one who's supposed to be doing the presenting. But she, you know, she could tell that, you know, this wasn't going anywhere. Now, you know, there are people who buy for certain reasons. There are people who are simply price buyers. Very few, by the way.

Most people think they're priced buyers, but they're not. Very rarely is it a question of price. It's typically a question of perceived value. But people think they're price buyers. But there's people who buy for price. There's people who buy for prestige. There's people whose main motivator is convenience. There are people who, minus convenience.

Now, that doesn't mean price isn't an issue. Of course it is. But my determining factor with something like a machine is convenience. I've got 10 left thumbs, and I do not want to fool with it. I don't want to fiddle with it. Well, finally, as I was about to just let them know that it wasn't something I was interested in, she spoke up. She couldn't hold herself back.

And she said, Mr. Berg, if we could put it into the agreement that you would not have to submit the figures to us every month, if we could find another way to make that happen, would you be interested? I said, oh yeah, I'll sign the agreement right now. And I did. Okay. But that's because she was placing my interest first. Now, as opposed to for whatever reason, he was going with what he felt was important. What a difference maker that is. It's incredible to see it. And it's almost beautiful to see it in action when you're on, really on both sides of it. You know, I appreciate great salespeople. when I'm the buyer. Absolutely.

Sometimes, like, even maybe it's because I'm just a little bit on a bias where I think about it, I, you know, if they do a really, really great job, I'm at the art and the science and the skill behind asking great discovery questions. You can tell they listen to me. You know, a great friend of mine actually is a younger CEO of a company called Pursuit, and he created this out of an MBA project. His name's Nate DeMars. and I've found that ever since I met Nate, and he sells me my suits and shirts and very nice clothes,

you know, and tailors him and everything. And he said, I always felt he's just such a great listener. And it's me, I've become one of his, you know, thousand true fans where I'm kind of telling others,

you got to go, you got to go, because he'll treat you right. And then my friends go, and they're like, you're right, he does treat you right. He knows exactly, you know,

how to do it. He listens to me. He doesn't just say, hey, this is a great suit because it's cheap or whatever. He said, hey, he asked questions, what's it for? What are you doing? Is it a summer wedding? Or are you going on a job interview or what's going on?

And based on what your question, he can then, you know, offer some advice that you probably need because most of us that go in there don't have a clue about what to buy when it comes to a suit. Right. But it makes, it keeps me coming back. We've become even friends because of it because I love the way he approaches the sales process. And I don't even think he thinks of a sales process. He thinks that it as me and you are building a relationship that's going to be lasting. and I want to make sure that you're taking care of. And I think that's what the great ones do.

They separate themselves from the average ones and the good ones even because they truly care about your success. My dad always says, my success as a sales professional can only follow your success, the person that you're selling to. And so it's the same way. And so that's why I think it's almost beautiful when you see it happening. And as a salesperson, you try to continue doing it that way, to emulate it, to learn, to always find new. great resources to help you get better at this part. And that's why your work is powerful to me and why it's helped me. And I'm appreciative of it. Well, thank you very much. That means a lot to me. Thank you. Awesome. So I have one more question, Bob, before we get going. This is packed. So we're

going to probably have to do it again. But I have one more question before we go on this time. I understand people's attention span aren't two hours long. So we'll cut it here and probably do it again. But that is, so this show is all about leadership. It's all about learning. It's all about getting better. It's about consciously deciding to improve on a daily basis, doing the things it takes, the actionable things it takes to getting better every single day. And so when you hear the phrase learning leader, somebody who's always striving to get better as well as lead others and help others, do you think of a certain person or is there a way you would define learning leader?

And I like to make it two part because some people think of a person. and pops right in their mind, and I think it's really cool when it happens, or you just define what that means to you. Well, first, growing up, I always saw my dad reading. You know, he grew up very, very poor, and, you know, he's really self-educated, and you always, always reading. So that was something that was a great example for me. I also think of a person by the name of Dan Rockwell, who goes by leadership freak.

Right. And one of my favorite quotes from Dan is be a learn at all, not a know at all. Nice. Oh, and I love that. So when I saw your, you know, you're saying, I thought, you know, that is just so cool. Because we know that a leader, by the very nature of being a leader, is always learning. They never feel they are there. They're always on the way.

Yeah. That is, that's perfect. I love, I love how you mixed, you know, you talk about your dad because I have a same type of relationship where I've learned so much from him. And then also, I've, I've read Dan stuff on Twitter and everything that he writes as well. So it's very, very impressive to see that. So, but Bob, I really, again, appreciate it. This is a really cool experience for me to be able to talk to you like this and learn more directly from you. And I know our listeners are going to get a lot of it as well.

Where can everybody go to find your work online? Probably the best place is just Berg-B-U-R-G.com, and they can subscribe to my influence and success insights, and they'll receive chapter one of the go-giver, if they like to read chapter one first to see if they like it, as well as chapter one of my book, Adversaries into Allies, and they can connect with me on social media and so forth. So yeah, berg.com would be the best place. I don't encourage everyone to get the books. You're not going to be disappointed. It'll be helpful.

And it's something I would have read more than once. I think it's very, very, like you said, you always got to be doing. You got to be sharpening the salt. So that's why you read great texts from people who have been there before, who understand it, who studied it and learned from others. And then they share it. That's how we all get better. So I encourage people to do that.

But Bob, seriously, thank you very much, man. Look forward to continuing these conversations in the future. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you for all you're doing. You're adding so much value to so many of us. Thank you. Very cool. Thanks, Bob.

Talk soon. Bye-bye. This episode of the Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12.

Thanks again, and we'll see you next time. on the Learning Leader Show.