The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 052: Bobby Carpenter – Self-Awareness, Tom Brady, & A Career In Politics?

Episode Date: September 7, 2015

Episode 052: Bobby Carpenter – Self-Awareness, Tom Brady, & A Career In Politics? I’ve been fortunate to know Bobby for the last 15 years… We met when he was a teammate with my younger brother AJ at Ohio State.  I’ve always know Bobby to be an incredibly interesting person.  He tells it like it is and isn’t afraid to share his true feelings.  During our conversation for this podcast, Bobby didn’t mince words and was not scared to voice his feelings about great leaders as well as people who he disagrees with.  I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with Bobby!  I promise you will learn a lot from listening to it… Bobby Carpenter is a former NFL Linebacker. He was drafted by the Dallas Cowboys in the first round of the 2006 NFL Draft after playing college football at Ohio State. Bobby also played for the St. Louis Rams, Miami Dolphins, Detroit Lions and New England Patriots.  He currently is the Co-Host of Carpenter & Rothman on 97.1 The Fan in Columbus, Ohio.  He is a two time graduate of The Ohio State University (undergrad and MBA). Episode 052: Bobby Carpenter – Self-Awareness, Tom Brady, & A Career In Politics? Subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher Radio   The Learning Leader Show “World class performers embrace who they are…  They own it.  They are genuine.  They have great self-awareness” – Bobby Carpenter Some Questions I Ask: When have you failed? What did you learn from those failures? What qualities do world class performers all share? You spoke on Fox News with Hannity about politics while you were a current NFL player. What prompted you to do that? Would you consider a career in politics? How can you relate to someone who was raised in a single parent household and wasn’t provided for like you were? What do you think about the “everyone gets a trophy” debate? What are your thoughts on Hillary Clinton? What is your goal-setting process? In This Episode, You Will Learn: The importance of self-awareness Discussion on the James Harrison “participation trophy” debate The current political landscape from Bobby’s perspective Why Bobby went on Fox News as a current player to discuss politics “Bad news doesn’t get better with age” The many different ways to lead “They chose this as their mountain to die on… and they’ve been purely reactionary.  That is not the mark of a great leader.” – In reaction to how Troy Vincent and Roger Goodell have handled the Tom Brady DeflateGate situation. Continue Learning Read more about Bobby: NFL.com Follow Bobby on Twitter @Bcarp3 Listen to Bobby on 97.1 The Fan: Carpenter & Rothman You may also like these episodes: Episode 003: The Incredibly Interesting Story Of Maurice Clarett And How He Built A 6 Figure Income After Spending 4 Years In Prison Episode 002: How To Take Over And Set Bigger Goals With Chris Brogan Episode 004: How Todd Wagner (and Mark Cuban) Sold Broadcast.com To Yahoo! For $5.7 Billion Episode 010: Shane Snow – How To Accelerate Success Using Smart Cuts Did you enjoy the podcast? This episode was absolutely jam packed with great information on a variety of topics.  I love how open Bobby is.  I can promise we will be recording another episode together at some point.  Who do you know that needs to hear this?  Send them to The Learning Leader Show! Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell   Bio from 971thefan.com   Job Title: Co-Host, Carpenter & Rothman Hometown: Born in Houston; grew up in Lancaster, Ohio College: The Ohio State University Previous Places of Play: Dallas Cowboys, Miami Dolphins and Detroit Lions Favorite Teams: Reds, Cavs, and Mavs Favorite Sports Quote: “You play to win the game” Herm Edwards Favorite Sports Moment: 2002 OSU National Championship Favorite Video Game: Contra (I’m waiting for the Xbox 360 release) Favorite App: Jumbline

You're going to fail. Everybody in this world is going to fail. Now you can choose to handle it however you like. I choose to take the approach of, you know, you can mourn it, mourn the loss. You know, feel bad for yourself for a little bit, but not for too long. Because you got to take it, you got to make sure you learn it from it afterwards. And you have to go on and keep moving. The sun's coming up the next day.

There's no funerals in sports. You know, no one ever dies from losing in sports. You're going to have to wake up the next day and you're going to have to face it and go play again. And that's just the reality of it. So the quicker you learn to understand that, the more success you're going to have. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success.

You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. very excited about tonight's featured leader. It's with Bobby Carpenter, very dynamic leader Bobby is. But first, I want to take a moment to thank you guys for the great reviews you've written in iTunes. If you haven't done it yet, I would greatly appreciate it if you would. In fact, I'd love to read one for you tonight, one that meant a lot to me.

This is actually coming from screen name Dance Capades. Here's what they say. Ryan does a good job of following up on the answers from guests to go deeper, and he's not afraid to get vulnerable with the guest, which makes for a much more powerful interview, as a guest then seems to go there as well. The interviews with Jeff Goines and Gary Vaynerchuk were quite interesting. The show notes are thorough,

and I appreciate the summary at the start of the episodes, so I know why I want to listen. Thank you very much for that review. I would encourage you if you haven't written one in iTunes, please do. You can get to the iTunes link by just simply going to Ryanhawk.net.

All right, on tonight's show with Bobby Carpenter. Bobby was an all-big-10 performer at Ohio State as a linebacker. He was then drafted in the first round by the Dallas Cowboys. He finished his NFL career in 2012 as a member of the New England Patriots. Currently, he is a co-host of Carpenter and Rothman

on 97.1 The Fan in Columbus, Ohio. He's also earned his MBA from Ohio State recently. Incredible, really smart guy, Bobby is. A couple of the topics we got into. The common characteristics of world-class performers like Tom Brady, Calvin Johnson, and Urban Meyer. These are all people that Bobby has spent a great deal of time around. Also, we got into wide losses and failures are the best opportunities to learn in life. Bobby and I both share stories of these as we've both.

progressed in our journeys. And then another interesting thing that popped up that I wasn't expecting. We talk about Bobby and a potential career in politics. I think you really like Bobby's response to that. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, this one's with my great friend, Bobby Carpenter. All right, Bobby, let's get it rolling, man. Quick question to get us started. You have been fortunate to spend time around a number of world-class performers, world-class athletes, extremely intelligent people. I love to know from you, what are a few common characteristics that those world-class performers have all shared?

You know, it's interesting. Kind of each person, I think, first and foremost, they kind of embrace who they are. If they're an introverted person, they're not going to go out and try to be the most flamboyant guy in the room. If there's someone that is more outgoing, someone that's more take charge and commanding, then that's who they are and they own that. And I think that that's very important because, you know, probably the first and to me, the most important characteristic of any leader is to be genuine.

And when you look through people, you can see quick, fast and in a hurry, you know, if they're genuine or not, or if there's someone that just puts on a show for everyone else. And that's not who they really are inherently. And I'll go to my time with New England that I was there for, you know, briefly for a season, the guy like Tom Brady. And, you know, he's getting beaten up in the media right now. He's got a lot of things going on. But I will say this about Tom.

He's one of the few guys who have ever been around. He's a Hall of Fame quarterback. He's one of the best. He's four Super Bowls. But he made a concerted effort to learn everybody's name to come in and say hi to just about every single person that came in the room. Because he's a genuinely nice guy. And that's what he's all about. I mean, he wants to come up to people, say, hey, learn a little something about you.

And not that he's going to become your best friend, but you feel like he genuinely cares. When you talk, he's sitting there and he's really going to listen to you. And I think that's a huge piece of it. You know, you look at a guy, you know, like Jim Tressel at Ohio State, you know, he was who he was always, he was the same person all the time. You know, he was always very steady, always very calm. You know, when he got upset, you knew it was important. And, you know, conversely of that, I've spent a lot of time around Urban Meyer now at Ohio State. And, you know, he's a little bit more fiery.

He's a little more direct. He's going to be pointed with some of his questions and they're going to be uncomfortable. But that's who he is. So it's okay. And everybody understands that. And you see some of these great coaches. and you realize after a long time, regardless of sport and leaders throughout the country, is you can tell right away if someone when they're acting, if that's not their personality.

And the guys who are the most successful, you know, guys that win championships, people that are leaders in industry, they're the most successful because people believe in them, because when they talk and when they speak and they're around you, you always know what you're getting. You're always getting the same person. I think that's very important to be genuine around everybody. and whether that means you're outgoing and you're on people or if that means you're quiet reserved and very calculated, it's all the same because people know what they're going to get. Yeah, it reminds me of another guess I spoke with Gary Vaynerchuk who talked about self-awareness

and that the best leaders, the best most successful high achievers he'd been around, had this immense level of self-awareness. They understood themselves. They took time to study and understand, you know, how they could best achieve great things. I think of like the difference between even Peyton Manning and Eli Manning, who have completely different personalities, although Eli has come out of his shell a little bit. But, you know, people used to get on him all the time because he's more of a quiet leader until he wins Super Bowls. And now you can kind of do whatever you want as a quarterback and be who you are. But it's just interesting to see that dynamic between that there's more than one way to do it.

But the best way is to have an understanding of yourself and to be yourself. And that's huge. and self-awareness is something that I talk about a lot because I think it's probably the most undervalued trade in society today is that people don't know their own blind spots. Everyone wants to believe that they're good at everything, and that simply just isn't the case. There's a lot of people in this world that may be great at a few things,

but they're not, they don't understand the things that they're not good at. And you look at obviously some of the best coaches and the best people around, you know, what they do. They're really good at being able to identify what they're good at. They're going to focus on that. and then they bring other people in to fill in their blind spots. And you look at some coaches after a while, they're really good at a lot of things because they've been around it.

But a guy like you, I've spent a lot of time around in Sean Peyton down in New Orleans. He's a great offensive mind. He lets his defensive coordinators, he brings them in. They run the defense that they want to run. And he may have some input in what's going on, but he lets those guys do their job because that's not what he's the best at. And I think so few people understand that when everybody, even with that, athletes. Everybody has a specific skill set that they can utilize, but if you're not the fastest

guy in the world, don't try to get into track meet with someone out on the field. You know, use the skills that you have and don't just accept the fact that, you know what, there are things that I do well, but the things that I don't, I'm going to put myself in positions where I don't really have to rely on those. I'm going to build people around me to help accent my shortcomings to make sure that I'm fully developed as a person with my team. Absolutely, man. I love it. Let's take a step back, Bob, and so I love for you to, you know, there's listeners on this show in 102 countries, so all over the world, every state, and I know you're pretty well known in multiple areas, especially in the football world, but I'd love for you to take a moment to share your, your quick bio,

who you are, what you've done, and what you're doing up to this point. Well, I'm just a dude from Lancaster, Ohio. You know, it's a little semi-submese. suburban area outside of Columbus. You know, both of my parents are from there. That's where they raised. My three brothers and I, we were a big sports family in general. My dad played professionally. My football. And my mom was a swim coach and did that our whole life.

So all of us were always very competitive, highly competitive. Went to Ohio State. Was there for four years. Not a lot of success, both individually. You know, and as a team was part of two Big Ten championships and national title. Drafted to the Dallas Cowboys in the first round. And you spent four years there. I won a couple NFC's titles and made some great friends.

I had a lot of success who bounced around a little bit. Then to Detroit for a couple of seasons and then finished up my last year in New England. So I really got a chance to play with some great, great players from Tony Romo, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware, Matthew Stafford, Calvin Johnson, Adomac and Sue, you know, to Tom Brady. You know, some of these guys, you know, a lot of those guys I listed will probably be in the Hall of Fame one day. So I always tried to study and watch their habits, finished up playing. and decided, you know what, I want to try to continue to build my skills. You know, I'd been going to some executive ed classes that the NFL provided in the offseason.

They were very beneficial at some great universities. And when I got done, moved back to Columbus where we'd come, really, the whole, you know, every off season. And, you know, touch base with some family and friends. And, you know, went back to Ohio State to develop my MBA. And it was something that, you know, I always knew I wanted to work on. I didn't know exactly how I was going to use it. But I'll tell you this. You always hear these stories about guys.

who play and then they end up losing themselves financially because they're not really sure what's going on. And I didn't want that to be me. I wanted to educate myself. I wasn't really sure what I was going to do before I started getting more involved in media like I am right now. But I thought it couldn't hurt me to go back and develop this. So I was able to graduate in May and continue to move forward, you know, working on that, trying to work on some different business dealings in Columbus while I do my media, you know, my radio show and try to work into some live broadcasting now with some games. That's incredible, man. You packed in a lot because I, you know, I'm thinking of everything you've accomplished up to this point. It's still an extremely young age, including, you know, being married with kids yourself. I think we can hear a few of them in the background, which is pretty cool. But to get done and dive into the media world as well as complete your MBA is pretty incredible.

The other thing I wanted to bring up is, and I remember this from while you were playing, I would routinely get text messages from friends to say, turn it on Fox News. You've got to check it out because Bobby is on there with Hannity, not even mentioning football. You were speaking pretty much all about whether it's business or politics. And it's not every day that you see an active, current NFL player going on and speaking about politics or business or things that have nothing to do with football. What prompted you to want to do that? What was that process like to get on there and then to be a repeat guest? Well, it was something that my agent prompted me with and thought it would be something that

be pretty neat. He goes, you're an intelligent guy. You're aware of a lot of issues in this country. I've always tried to pride myself, even when I was playing, you know, pick up a Wall Street Journal and try to look at it at least a couple times a week. So I knew what was going on in the world. And, you know, not just financially, but different political positions and really what some of the state of the worldwide affairs were.

So he pitched that to him, and I thought, you know what, this would be a great opportunity to go on there and show that I can talk intelligently about some things outside of the world of football. Some of them were financial, a lot of them were political, you know, social issues. It was great. I got to go on with Sean Hannity, spent some time on there on three separate occasions in the summer when I had some downtime. And I would go on there and it's truly humbling with some of the different people that I was on there with. You know, they were very intelligent. They're very well-spoken. and they were very knowledgeable.

And they have degrees from some terrific schools around the country. And here I was just the football guy coming in to, I think, provide a different perspective. But I tried to input as much as I could. And I hopefully impressed them. And I received some compliments afterwards. They were a little taken back that they didn't expect maybe as much contribution on some of those issues as I was able to provide. And I thought it was interesting. It was fun.

It was a good time. some relationships there. And as much as I go down this road, I really enjoy the political arena and everything that has to provide because, you know, I've always taken the opinion of if you don't really like what's going on in the country, if you don't really want to talk about it, dive into the issues, vote on them and do all this, then you really don't have a right to complain. So, you know, there's things that I agree with, things that I don't agree with that are going on, and I just want to make sure that, hey, I'm informed on them. So when someone asked me about it, I can formulate an educated opinion and possibly sway them to my beliefs.

if I'm knowledgeable on the subject. Is this just popped to my head? Is politics something that you would consider in your future? You know, I've had conversations with some people about that. The former Columbus mayor before Mike Coleman, Greg Lachucka was a Ohio State Buckeye played football here. I want to say back in the 60s. And when I just got done playing, you know, I reached out to him to talk to him about, you know, possibly entering the political arena, you know, what all that would entail.

And I have some friends that are involved in it. You know, as you said, you heard my kids. running around there. I'm married with three kids, my lovely wife. And the one thing that I don't think she would be too excited about me diving into that, because as you know from politics and everybody can see, I mean, they really go over your whole life with a fine tooth comb. And it's not the fact that I'm worried about what they find. You know, it's just that you really want to expose your family to that. I mean, that's the question you have to ask because then they're going to be scrutinized and there's going to be issues. And whether that's at like a federal level, state level, local level, there's

always going to be some issues with that where you're going to be under scrutiny. scrutiny. So I've looked at it. I think that there's one day that I think if that opportunity presents itself, I would like to take a shot at it and see what I could do. I think public service is a great thing. Whether you're serving politically, you know, in an elected office, or whether you're serving in the military, whatever it might be, you know, it's a great way to contribute and give back to your city, state, or country. So I think that's something down the road, you know, if the right opportunity strikes, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring and see how I could help. What do you think of the current landscape? You know, we're about a year away

from an election, your presidential election, it seems like the stuff's on every day. A few weeks ago, there was the Republican debate, so new names popping up. Obviously, we've got a number of different people who are putting their hat in the ring. What do you think of the current landscape? I think it's pretty interesting to tell you the truth. I think the countries at a crossroads, there's a lot of things that are happening, you know, socially, fiscally, monetarily in the country that, you know, there's some people that like, some people that don't.

You know, I'm more of a traditional guy. That's how I was raised. You know, I kind of had a split household on my parents on, you know, on their voting preferences. But, you know, I've tried to educate myself as much as I possibly could. And, you know, I'm more of a conservative guy. And I see a lot of, I see a lot of the value to helping people and to providing, you know, things for people. But I've always believed that, you know, America is the greatest nation in the world because you're able, regardless, you know, of your belief, your skin color, where you're from, whatever it is, all the differences that make up the United States. you can go have success.

Because in a capitalistic environment, people vote with their time and their money. And if you're really good at something, you're going to get hired. And if people continue to pass you over and discriminate against you for one reason or another, they're going to continue to fail business and you'll eventually have success.

So I love the fact that the United States that you can go from really not having much at all to having a lot. And I guess that stems from my upbringing and my parents and both of them were first generation college students. My mom's dad had a sixth grade education. All seven of his kids went to school, and he made sure that they were highly educated,

and he read a lot and tried to do everything that he could. And, you know, it's very similar on my dad's side. So I'm a huge fan of that. And, you know, some of the social welfare programs, I think they're great. I think it's great that this country helps people. But I'm always a fan of, you know, help people get back on their feet and help them get going. not necessarily provide them a hammock to lay in because you don't want to ever enable people.

And I try to take that approach when I'm parenting my kids. You know, it's important to make sure they have things. But, you know, I never had everything I wanted growing up because I think if you have everything, you have very little things, very few things to work for. So I try to impress upon that on my kids, just like my parents did on me. What about so, you know, my eyes were open a little bit.

I had Maurice Claret on one of your former teammates, early guest of the Learning Leader show here. And he opened my eyes a little bit because it made me think because, you know, I have similar views to you. However, you know, Maurice mentions some things like, you know, you don't really know what it's like to grow up in a one parent household having to sell drugs to have clothes or having to find a way to make money. You don't really know what it's like to live that way.

And I did and you didn't. So when you sit there and judge me on being stupid with money or making mistakes like, you know, driving drunk or whatever, you know, he got in trouble with a number of things that he did, he said, you know, they didn't have a father figure, didn't have somebody to guide him and he went down the wrong path. And that's a very common thing amongst a lot of these kids in college that you see and some of your teammates. And so what do you say to the people who, like they look at you, Bobby, and they're saying, well, your dad played in the NFL. So they assume he's like a multimillionaire, even though when he played, I know they weren't making the type of money they make now. I'm sure he did well for himself, but not like that. But hey, you have both your parents there. Your mom and dad are great.

You have great brothers. You know, you have all this support and all this help. What about the single parent household with no guidance, no money, nothing? What do you think about that? You know, that's the question that, you know, people always pose. And that's why I've never been against, you know, programs that help people. Mm-hmm. And especially kids, you know, I think that there's a place for that in this country.

And I think that that's what makes this country great. You know, I will say this. You know, my dad, you know, he played 10 years in the NFL. His first contract, he was a third-round draft pick, believe it or not, which is, you know, when they had 12 or 15 rounds or whatever, so it's fairly high. But his first-year salary, I want to say, it was $25,000. And his signing bonus was 15. And my mom, and everyone's like, well, that was a different time.

You know, inflation, it's changed. I'm like, well, my mom was a teacher and made like $7,500. So he just made twice as what a teacher's salary is. So, like, you can't attribute all that to inflation. So it wasn't like, you know, we had everything we ever wanted growing up. But I'll say this. You know, playing in the NFL, you mean a lot of different guys. I met a lot of guys who, you know, from great backgrounds, good families.

I met guys who, you know, maybe they didn't have everything they wanted, but they came from a two-parent home. And they had two parents that were, you know, heavily. in their lives and provided it for them as much as they could and they were successful. And I've also seen guys who come from single parent homes with four or five, six siblings that their mom did the best they could provide for them. They didn't have everything they wanted. They probably had very little.

But they were able to have success anyway and they were able to rise above it. So the fact that I've seen evidence of that happening where people, they wanted to learn about everything. They wanted to learn about their finances. They wanted to work hard. They wanted to try hard in school because that's what they valued. They chose to make a decision to follow a way that, frankly, a lot of it comes down to, I don't know, your parental situation, but they had a mentor at some point in their life, whether it was a coach or a teacher that instructed them. You know what? You don't need to be someone of the streets. You can go out there and do something more with your life. You've got some talent. You've got some skill in these other areas. You know, and you can go and work hard

and go and achieve it. There's a kid that played for my dad at Lancaster. He's a high school football coach. He's been doing it now for 18 years at his hometown. Before that, he coached a number of years at some other schools. And there's a kid who, you know, both his parents, one of his parents was dead. The other parent was addicted to drugs.

He grew up in a foster home. This kid had nothing. He had absolutely nothing. And he walked on at his school and, you know, he had good enough grades to get into college. He's gotten a lot of money, you know, financial aid. to be able to go. And the kids had a lot of success.

He had zero guidance growing up. He was one of the best kids that I had was ever around. He was a yes sir, no sir kid. He worked his tail off every single day. And he was a black kid from inner city of Pittsburgh. And he was unbelievable. And I told him I'd help him any way I possibly could the rest of his life because I love the guy because he overcame dire circumstances.

So when I see a guy like that, do it. And I've seen kids that are from suburban areas that have everything given to him that screw up too. I know that it's possible, and your circumstances shouldn't dictate your finish line. And there's people who believe that, and when they believe that, they typically can change their circumstances and have a better life than what they had ever imagined. I love it, man. It's awesome.

And speaking of leading from a parental perspective recently in the news, I don't know. I've seen you made some comments about this. I'd love to dive in a little bit deeper. James Harrison had made a comment that he was giving back the participation trophies that his sons were given for. participating in whatever sport they were playing at the time and said, and his reasoning was you should have to earn them through winning, not just from showing up and being a participant. What are your thoughts on a couple things here. Let me pose it a different way.

What are your thoughts, first of all, on him doing that? And then actually, I'm going to have you answer that first before I go to my next one. You know, his thoughts on doing that, you know, I think it may have been a little grandstanding, but I have no problem with it. You know, it may have been a bit excessive. If he didn't want his kids to have trophies, you can just throw them in the trash or give them to someone. Yeah. But if that's his way of bringing light to an issue that he finds important, then absolutely.

I think it was a good gesture because it got people talking about it. Yeah. And so, and then Mike Greenberg, host of Mike and Mike in the morning on ESPN, made a comment that he wrote a post, I believe, was on Facebook, his Facebook page where he stated, he dove in a little bit more and said, you know, while I understand it, he thinks a bigger problem in today's society is that kids don't get off the couch or their electronic devices and go out and play. And if a participation trophy helped a kid get off the couch or put the device down and go outside and play, he thinks it's a good idea to give them these trophies. Because when I first saw the Harrison thing, I was like, you know what, I agree. I think you should have to win. I think it should be earned.

I think you should experience tough things. You should have to understand that sometimes you're going to lose. Even when you try your hardest, you're not going to win all the time. So that's a good learning lesson in life. And like when you grow up and get any job, whether it's playing sports or in the business world, sometimes you're going to lose regardless of your effort. But then I saw the Greenberg piece and I was like, you know, it's a good point because I do, you know, I think, but that's also a parent issue. I think if your kids, if you just allow them to sit on the couch. all day. But if it does help in that regard, I saw his side of it too. You know what I'm saying?

Ryan, let me ask you this. You know, you played sports for a long time in your life. You're very blessed to be able to play in college and you'll go on and do some great things. They coined you the golden boy in Centerville. You know, a lot of success out there. Did you play sports ever for the trophy? No, I did not. You know, people that are competitive in life, they don't necessarily play for a piece of hardware. That only they look at it to give them the memories. And maybe there's some sort of completion phenomenon that you get when you get to see that and you understand what you did. But it's not the trophy.

You know, to me, you know, I think failure is a huge part. I think failure can be some of the best success you ever had if you learn from it. You know, to me, it's just that we've become a society that celebrates mediocrity where you can just go out there and show up and that earns you something in this world. And that's not the way it is. I have no problem with failure. You want to go out there and fail? That's fine.

because you know what if you learn from it you're going to proceed better than next time you know and like you said it's a parental thing you are what you emphasize and if you're going to emphasize you know competition working hard and it's not necessarily you know winning all the time it's you know if you work as hard as you can you should be okay with whatever the result is you know maybe you would like to have won but you didn't I was never upset with games I've lost or contests I lost that I put everything into and you know maybe I was upset at the time but looking back on it, I felt completely okay with it because I knew that's as good as I could have done. And if that's okay, and, you know, it's fine.

I didn't need a trophy to tell me that. I knew that inherently. And we emphasize all these things and we talk about them. But, you know, kids today, it's easy to sit there and, you know, look at their machines all day in their lap and not go out and do anything. And, you know, why? Because a lot of their parents do that. They don't get off the couch and do anything. And, you know, I'm a victim to it sometimes.

You are as well. I mean, everybody is. But, you know, I try to make a concerted effort. that when I go outside and do things, physical stuff outside, whether it's mowing the grass, trimming trees, trimming bushes, or even just playing sports with my kids, I get them out there to do it because that's what my parents did. They drug me along, and it's amazing the amount of things that you just inherit,

you know, from osmosis from being around, being around people that do that. You learn the lifestyle that you lead mostly from your parents, positively or negatively. Sometimes you realize that you shouldn't do any of that if they're terrible things, but that's what I was all about. You know, and if you're going to, as a parent, can't complain that your kid's not competitive, you know, if you don't put them in competitive situations, and you don't force that out of them. And, you know, the argument that comes back to, well, it's easy for you to say that.

You know, you look at you, you played in the NFL. You know, you're probably really good at sports growing up your whole life, you know, whatever it is you played. And there's some truth to that. You know, but I know I also worked my tail off. I worked as hard or harder than anybody on any team that I ever played on. You know, I put in a lot of time and effort. to make sure I was a skinny kid growing up to get bigger. So, yeah, I put in a lot of work.

And they're like, well, then what's wrong with rewarding that hard work? I said, you know what? There's something else. And this is something that not a lot of people know. And I don't know if you know it. I mean, I know your brother's aware of it. And I played piano for six years growing up. My mom forced me to play piano from first grade to sixth grade.

And, you know, I had lessons every week. I had to practice for a half hour a day or sometimes more, whatever it was. And, you know, we'd have recitals. And I'd go there and I'd practice. and I didn't necessarily enjoy it, but there were times that I really worked hard at it. And, you know, I got to be decent, you know, better than average, pretty good. So I could go there and I could play a lot of things. I could play some things from here, but I could play some fairly advanced pieces.

They were kids that were far better than me. And you know what? Probably no matter how hard I tried, I knew that I wasn't going to be as good as them. And that was okay. That was fine with me. You know, I knew that that wasn't what I was the best at. So, you know, if kids that go out and play sports that aren't the best, you know, it's not their fault. That's not their best skill set.

There's something in this world that they're going to be really good at. But you know what? I didn't get a trophy for participating in the recital. They had the best kids there. They got little ribbons or whatever. You know what I got? You know, we'd stop by Dairy Queen and we'd get a Sunday or something afterwards. You know, good job.

Way to work hard. And that's fine. And that's why I always say, like, I was never going to be the best at that. And I worked at it. But I wanted to get better. But that was fine. I was okay because I knew that I didn't have necessarily the required skill, but it didn't make it any less of an accomplishment for me to go out there.

and try and work hard at it. Yeah, there's a great points, Bob. And I think, you know, I think back to mistakes or moments of failure that I've personally had. And I think I've learned the most and I remember the most the times when I failed, when I, when I threw an interception that lost us the game and knocked us out of the playoffs, when I, you know, I fumbled a snap at a critical time when, when I lost, you know, whatever game. I don't know, I'm motivated and inspired almost by those moments more than I remember even some of the greatest victories or the six touchdown games or anything.

You know what I mean? So I think some of those moments can really like, I'll never forget them. And it can help drive you in so many other ways outside of even playing sports to where it was like, you know what, I was the reason we lost. I messed up. It wasn't for lack of effort, but it just, that's the way it goes sometimes. And I think I learn from that. And also it strengthens you and gets you ready for whatever you're going to do maybe off the athletic field when you've experienced some really some heartbreak, some tough things because you went out, you played as hard as you could possibly play, and it wasn't good enough. And it's a great learning experience.

For me personally, I've got to imagine you've had some of those two. Oh, absolutely. And it's interesting. You bring up some of your failures in life. I mean, the games that I lost are always going to be more vivid in my memory than that. the games that we want. Yeah. And I don't know why that is with, you know, human nature. I think a lot of people are like that way, especially highly competitive individuals. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's okay

because you learn a lot more from that, you know, and that helps mold you. We talk a lot on my radio show and people get so easily offended today by things that are said. People get offended if they're not even offensive to them. They're just offended for others. And I look at it, I've never really understood that. You know, playing in a locker room, you know, very few people. And, you know, and people always bring up, you know, the issue of race. And you don't know what it's like. And I go, listen, the majority of the U.S. country, you know, the population is still white.

Okay, that's a reality. If I worked in an industry where I was in a small minority, most NFL players are black, you know, and you have a handful of white guys in the locker room, but it's never, it's never on a team that I played of was even close to more than half, probably about 20 percent, 25%, maybe up to 30. You know, and I go, I was great friends with all those guys. I go, I understood everything that it was all about, but language was said between everybody in that locker room that was very free and open,

and it was things that weren't meant for public consumption. You know, and there were some things that were a little bit wild, but you heard everything. So I would say there's nothing that can be said in this world that will offend me. You know, I've had some of my greatest failures in this world documented on national television, 100,000 people watching them, maybe another 20 million watching them at home. You learn to cope and deal with things when that stuff happens to you. And it's not easy.

But you know what? Having a bad day at some random Tuesday when you're 35 at work, when your boss didn't necessarily like what you did, doesn't make me want to go home and cry now. It makes me look at what I did, analyze it. How could I have done it better? Should I have known to do it better at that point in time? And then proceed forward because you've already bottomed out and you know what it's like to have yourself be publicly humiliated. So many people are afraid of public speaking because they're afraid of. going up there and failing.

It's like most guys that play sports, you go out there, there's 70, 80, 100,000 people watching you. And if you mess up, a vast majority of them know it. And then now, if you're playing at a high level, they're going to break it down

for the next three days on television. So people are going to relive it over and over again. And you learn, you know what, these things do not define me. I'm going to learn from it. I'm going to understand it. But I'm going to let that one play define who I am. Yeah, I don't know.

know why this memory pothed my head, Bobby, but I vividly remember the night you guys played at Ohio State, the University of Texas at Ohio Stadium against Vince Young, and they beat you guys. And it was one of the most electric environments I personally have ever been in, and I was obviously there as a spectator, as a fan. And after the game, though, I know you came over to my brother, AJ's house, obviously one of your good buddies, and that's how we became friends. And we sat there and talked with a few beverages for like four hours after that game. And it was, and it was one of those moments of where you're, as a team, you guys, you know, you failed to win the game. It was a moment of failure, not really personal because I know you had a great game, but it was, it was really as a

team and the pain and what you guys went through. But I think of those moments where you can learn so much, it's a great opportunity for any leader to look back on tough, adverse time in their life because it, you guys, there's an extremely high. expectations on you guys, a lot of pressure, millions of people watching, and you gave everything you had and it wasn't enough. And I think those are just fantastic moments for people to think about and to learn from. And you've been fortunate to go through a number of those. Absolutely. And that game, you know, it's something that I vividly remember. And I dropped an interception in that game. And, you know, we ended up, you know, getting us, we ended up getting

an interception anyway on that drive. So, you know, does that matter? You know, would it have would have made a difference. And it was a play that I should have made. And, you know, I'll sit there and I can look at it and close my eyes and I can still see it happening and, you know, me not making the play. And, you know, for all the good plays you make in the game, you're always going to remember the handful that you didn't make. And, you know, as a team, we didn't succeed. We built that game up. You know, in Texas ended up being the national champions that year.

They were a terrific team. We were better than them and we should have beat them. You know, we ended up fast forward and we lose another game to Penn State. And we went from a team that was a preseason top five. team in the country, to a team that was three and two after five games. And you look at that, we lost the two very good teams. Penn State went to the

Rose Bowl, Texas won the national championship. They were very quality opponents, but still at the end of the day, you're a game over 500. And you are what your record says you are. And it would have been really easy at that point for everyone to just pack it up and say, you know what, we lost the two biggest games a year. We lost them by

less than a touchdown. They're games we should have won, and we didn't convert. So this season's lost. We'll worry about everything next year. And thankfully we had a great group of guys who stood up and this isn't going to define us. Those two games are not going to ruin our season. Maybe we're not going to be able to achieve exactly what we wanted, but we're going to go out

how we want to. We're going to finish the season like winners. And we end up running the table and winning every single game. And there were some great performances along the way by a variety of people. And I think that that's what it's all about is you're going to fail. Everybody in this world is going to fail. Now you can choose to handle it however you like. I choose to take the approach of, you know, well, you can mourn it, mourn the loss.

You know, feel bad for yourself for a little bit, but not for too long. Because you got to take it, you got to make sure you learn it from it afterwards. And you have to go on and keep moving. The sun's coming up the next day. You know, there's no funerals in sports. You know, no one ever dies from losing in sports. You're going to have to wake up the next day and you have to face it and go play again. And that's just the reality of it.

So the quicker you learn to understand that, the more success you're going to have. I love it, man. That's a great quote. It's just taking notes, actually. This is the exact type of conversation I'd hope we had. I'd love to talk a little bit about a current event that's going on because you're a former NFL player.

And right now there's in the news, and the NFL is in the news for some reasons that aren't good. And namely, the leader of the NFL, Roger Goodell is getting some just massive pushback from everybody except for pretty much his bosses, which are the owners, based on how he's handling the situation with Tom Brady, a guy that you played with. And I know from a quarterback perspective,

when it comes to footballs and the inflation and how they feel, like I remember spending hours per week with our equipment guys scrubbing each and every football that would be potentially used in the game that week, obviously making sure the inflation is right, but making sure the ball, more importantly, footballs felt good in my hands because that's, you know, Those are my tools. Like, that's what I need to be perfect.

So I understand somebody being very peculiar about the footballs. However, I think this is crazy that this has become such a story. What are your thoughts on this whole situation, both Tom Brady as a guy, as a leader, when it comes to footballs, as well as how it's being handled by Roger Goodell? Well, I think Roger Goodell, you know, first and foremost, you'd mentioned, you know, there's been a lot of issues that he's had to tackle. and some of them have been hard-hitting social issues, the issues of domestic violence,

you know, drunk and driving, things where people's lives are seriously altered. We're not talking about competitive balance, you know, and integrity of the game. You're talking about people's lives. Those are serious issues. So to me, what happened was, they didn't really have a firm plan in place

for how to deal with any of those. They simply dealt by being reactionary. And they levied penalties based upon public outrage. That's no way to lead. That's no way to govern. You put a plan in place and you stick with it. Maybe some people like it. Maybe some people don't.

That's just going to be the reality. You're never going to please everyone. Some people think it will be too harsh and some will always think that it's too lenient, but you have the plan in place, you have the protocol and you execute it. You don't govern off reactions because each reaction is going to be different. There's always going to be a different set of circumstances and you try to develop some hard and fast guidelines. There should be some leeway and some way. room because every situation is different.

But at the same time, you know, when you look at it, you've got to have some sort of structure to the process. So they got behind the eight ball because people were very upset because you look, going back to the Ray Rice situation, it's been handled terribly. They find out what they want to find out. They really didn't dig in. And, you know, now of a sudden, they chose this situation with Tom Brady, you know, is their mountain to die on where they came to a conclusion and then they backfilled, they backfilled their evidence behind it. You know, did Tom Brady know what was going on with the footballs?

You know, maybe he had an idea, and maybe he knew what was going on. You know, was what happened so egregious that it deserved a four-game suspension? No. Was it even egregious to deserve any game, any type of suspension? I really don't believe so. Well, it says in the rules that it's like a $25,000 fine for having the balls deflated below the 12.5 or whatever the level is supposed to be. Absolutely. And that's a club fine, not even a player fine.

Yeah. So that's where, you know, this whole thing got twisted is they found. and they saw an opportunity to make a statement and go out and penalize a guy and punish him. And then that would make, you know, he would gain respect nationally and publicly of, you know, what we're really trying to clean up this game. You know, we're punishing a guy who deflates a football. We're going to try to hammer him for four games when, you know, they had a situation with Greg Hardy, who got his deal knocked down to two because, you know, they didn't have the protocols in place at

the time and they tried to retroactively punish him based upon a new agreement that when his deal happened before. You can't, you can't sit there and put a new, a new punishment in place after a crime's already been committed and then try to, try to punish someone based upon that. So, you know, he's just, he's has everything spinning right now. He's been getting hammered. And, you know, I truly think that they want this suspension to stick with Tom Brady. They want him, not even the suspension, they want to him to admit that the findings in the well, the finding in the Wells report were accurate because that'll give them the unit out of authority. I think it's Article 46 where, you know, integrity of the game.

That's what Roger Goodell keeps, you know, that's what this punishment's based on. It's the integrity of the game. Well, you know what? I'm glad that they're losing this because he has far too broad reaching of power. The players didn't do enough job of pushing it back on it. And frankly, I don't think he would have given it up. You know, they would have been an impasse in their negotiations because I think that that's something that he would want to give up that absolute power.

And he loves being the judge, jury, and executioner and the appellate court at that. I think the federal judge is going to look at this eventually, and he's been hinting at it, that you've overpunished a guy for something you really can't even prove. And, you know, maybe the owners, I think there's some of them that love to see the Patriots to get hammered, but I think there's a lot of them that just want this to go away now because you're starting the season, regular season, of the most popular sport in this country, by far. And what is everybody talking about? You're not talking about training camp, you know, battles and who's going to be good and bad.

You're talking about Tom Brady. and you got everybody at ESPN and all the sports outlets all posted up outside of a courtroom in New York. And that's what everybody, that's what the story is. And it's not a great story for the league to have. You know, I think it's a great case study for maybe an MBA class on how not to lead. It really is because I think when getting your MBA, you always study, you have these case studies all the time. And you're doing analysis of how situations were handled or what would you do if you were running this business, so to speak. And it seems like to me it's a good example of, like you mentioned, Bobby, I was going to say, of being extremely reactionary, almost putting out these little feelers to see how the public's going to react before making a decision.

I mean, think about this. He knows Ray Rice punched his fiance in the face. Well, he said he didn't. Well, he knew that. Yeah. He hadn't seen the video. Right. He hadn't seen the video.

But then he, but he suspends for two games. I mean, think about that. And Tom Brady, it just blows my mind. And then all of a sudden, you know, the video comes out and it's like, oh, wait, wait, it's different. Well, no, you already knew what he did. You know, it's awful to see it. And it's terrible and it's an extremely serious issue. But as a leader of a multi-billion dollar business, you have to understand these societal issues and be out ahead of these things and not just be reactionary with literally everything.

And then all of a sudden to say, you know what, this is the one I'm going after. I'm going to go after, you know, the biggest star in the league, arguably the best quarterback. of all time because in cold weather some of the footballs happen to be below the level, which we're not even fully sure if it's because of him or because of the fact that when it gets cold out, the balls go under. You know what I mean? I don't know if you looked at any of the transcripts from the deposition when they had Troy Vincent, who, you know, former safety for Philadelphia and he now is, you know, one of the

executive vice presidents or something for the league. You know, he signed off on a lot of this stuff with the footballs and the gauges and everything. and they asked him, Kessler, who is the lead counsel for the NFLPA, you know, if he ever looked at any of the science behind it with the natural gas law or the ideal gas law and everything with, you know, the air pressure and how that changes with the temperature, you know, and how dry or moist the air is, and he's like, we didn't really get into the science of that. Like if you're going to suspend a guy an unprecedented amount of games

for something that warranted no suspension before, just a fine, to the organization. Don't you think that you would have researched every possible avenue of things that could have happened? I mean, that to me is what's absolutely insane. And then if you would have rewound back to a game that your brother played in, the Packers and Patriots game, I want to say from October or November, they had, I want to say, Phil Sims talking about how Aaron Rogers likes the balls overinflated and how he always tries to get him up above 14.

Yeah. And sometimes they don't catch it. And they have that on national television. And that's something that they completely ignored. And I asked myself, like, how could they possibly... I mean, this is embarrassing for them, that they were too quick to act. They spent $5 million on this Wells report. And all they did was that, more or less say,

this is the conclusion we want, find facts that fit our argument. And that's not how you do an investigation. Yeah. No, it's true, man. That's right. I didn't mean for us to go off on this tangent, but I think it's really important to talk about these things because in the realm of leadership

in whatever space you're in, for anyone listening, you can learn a lot. You can learn a lot from how situations are handled by the leaders, how they handle the media, how they handle any situation. Andrew Brandt is a great guy to follow on Twitter if you don't, but Andrew Brandt always seems to have really good takes.

He writes for Peter King's website, the MMQB as well as does TV for ESPN. always has a great understanding of the business side of football, but extremely intelligent guy. He's an attorney who used to work for the Packers. He's their cap guy. But I would encourage people to follow him, too, if you're into the business side of football. And I certainly am, and I know you are too. But just interesting to study and to analyze how tough situations are handled.

Because you look at any big business really around the world. And I think it's interesting to study the moments, the specific. times when the CEO has to go through something that's really hard. You know, like how do they handle that? What do they say? What do they do? How are they leading through adversity? Because really, Bobby, you know, any, it's easy to lead when times are good.

You know, we've both been on teams where everyone's a leader when you win 40 to nothing, right? But how do guys respond when it's tough? You know, how do you respond when you lose? How do you respond when you get knocked down? That's what I think it's all about to this. When we bring it back to hear the Learning Leader Show, when we're talking about learning and leading, that's really what I like to analyze and learn from others as well. Absolutely. And like you said, it's easy to be a leader when everybody has the palm leaves out and they're showering you with praise.

I mean, that's the fun stuff. It's hard to go out there and step up to a podium. When you know that you're walking into a hornet's nest and you're going to receive questions for the next hour that you're about to pass out from because it's going to be so tough that they're going to be very pointed. they're going to be very direct, and they're going to be critical. And you know that going up. Here's the problem. Don't, you know, don't be delusional. Don't walk into an ambush.

And, you know, there's a crisis leadership class that's taught at Ohio State in the NBA program that's absolutely terrific. And, you know, everybody needs to understand that there's going to be crises at times. The time to plan for a crisis is not when it occurs. You know, you don't institute your fire drill while there's a fire. And you look at your evacuation plan prior to everything and say, okay, this is a seems like now when we're logical, you know, clear-headed, we're not in the heat of the moment, this is what we're going to do. And then you have to develop that plan and you need to stick to it.

You need to understand. You need to be transparent. You need to go up there and answer questions. Hiding from them isn't going to make any better. You could Hillary Clinton with her email scandal. That doesn't, you can't run away from your problems. They're only going to grow and fester and get worse. Instead of if you would come out, you'd be transparent about the issues.

You talk about them. you take some ownership and responsibility. America is a very forgiving country. It doesn't matter whether you're leading a Fortune 500 company. You're leading the political scene as the president of the United States. You're leading a high school football team. It's all the same. If you make a mistake, there are some that are very egregious,

and you're going to have to pay a penalty for, and everybody understands that. But the vast majority of mistakes, if you get out there and you own it and you ask for forgiveness, You tell people how it happened and why it happened. You know, everyone's going to be upset at the moment, but the thing will blow by. The problem is when you let it fester, and that's with even in your company, when you have crisis situations, if you handle them and take them on head on, and you don't let people speculate about what could possibly happen. You don't let people sit there and talk in their small groups about how this situation is being handled poorly. You address it, you take it on, you open and clear the air of everything, and get it off your chest, and then you move on. but you have to be willing to get hit with some hand grenades at first.

It's going to hurt. It's not going to feel good. But the problem is I'd rather go out there and get shelled for 45 minutes to an hour than opposed to sitting there and bleeding to death for the next six months. You have to have the courage to handle these things head on. And it's not easy. I'm not going to sit here and say that it's the easiest thing to do. But the problem is you need to know it's going to be hard.

You have to understand that. Don't hide from the fact, but you're going to have to rip that band-aid off at some point in time. Yeah, there's a great statement I've heard from a few different people that it's bad news doesn't get better with age, you know, go ahead and do it, man. You got to own up and whatever it is. If you have bad news to tell somebody, tell them. You know, if you made a mistake, own up to it, you know. And I think we've all probably been there where we've messed that up where we're like, ah, maybe it'll go away. It doesn't go away, though.

There's a saying that I had an internship at a startup this summer as part of my MBA program. They called it Eating the Frog. When you look at your list of tasks that you do today, and I'm a goal-oriented person, and I put things in my calendar, but I still keep like a date book because I like to write things in there of things that I need to do. And I like the completion phenomenon to be able to cross them off as they happen. And I think that's important. But you look at everything, and there's always going to be something, you know, just about each and every day, that's last on the list of something that you really want to do.

I try to get that out of the way first. It's going to be painful. It's going to be hard. But once you have that lifted off your shoulders, that burden, you feel a lot better about the entire situation and the other tasks that you have to do that are easier, that are going to be more pleasurable. You're going to be able to do those and take enjoyment in them because you don't have this albatross hanging over your head. I love that you want to the goal aspect. That's a question I ask a lot of people. and it seems to be something that's in common with a lot of high achievers, and that's goal setting.

Talk to me a little bit more about your process for setting both short-term as well as long-term goals. And I mean, I'd love it if you'd share some of the specific ones too. Well, I think, you know, the short-term stuff, that's why I like to keep a date book. I mean, in theory, a task list list every day is just a compilation of your goals for that day that you'd like to get done. You know, it may seem mundane, but, you know, whether it's mowing the grass, going to get a haircut, you know, hopping on the Learning Leaders Podcast. I mean, there's a million things that I, that you had to do today. I had to go, I was painting over at our condo today.

I knew I had to get some of that done, and I knew I had to do this. So whenever they got as much done as I could before I came back. But, you know, those are some of the short-term goals. Some of my long-term goals, you know, most of those, you know, you have some career ones where, you know, I love doing my radio show. I'd like to continue to do that. I'd like to call games for, you know, some more, call some national collegiate football. football games, you know, within the next year or two.

I mean, I've been working at that. I was talking to you earlier about possibly getting my own podcast, website, built out. Those are some of goals that I have of things that I'd like to do. There's some of my more long-term goals, you know, and they're short-term embedded. I think it's good to have, you know, a long-term objective. You know, it's almost like, you know, it's almost like your mission statement for life. I think that, you know, it's like a goal-slash-dream, you know, of where you think you want to be.

And to me, it's, you know, it's more of being like, you know, how. how you are as a person. I don't like to set a lot of financial goals with things. You know, I'm not a monetarily driven person. I like to have enough to be comfortable, but I try not to let money to find me. Mine are more about,

you know, I want to be a great dad. Well, what does that entail? That entails going out and, you know, playing soccer or basketball with my kids. You know, that entails, you know,

me disciplining them when they need discipline, making sure that they do the things they need to do, even if it's tough. And I don't want to sit there and harp on them about it, but making sure that they developed, develop those good habits early on. You know, it's much easier to work on those early than it is late. You know, whether it's being a good husband to my wife, you know, I have a propensity to, you know, lose my temper. You know,

I'm a short-tempered guy. And, you know, like you said, we talked about self-awareness. I've come to that realization at this point in my life at 32 years old that, you know what, I have a propensity to snap and maybe lose my temper quicker than I should have. Become slightly irrational occasionally in my arguments. I told my wife, listen, just regurgher. to take what I say back to me so that I can understand that it sounds completely foolish. And that helps. And it helps me, you know, with a lot of my areas in life. But that's kind of how I am. That's kind of how I've been built. I like to take family vacations. It's something that I didn't really get a chance to do growing up. Growing up, we had four, four kids. It was expensive.

It was tough. I don't think we ever really, we never took a family vacation with all six of us where we flew anywhere. And frankly, I don't think by the time I was in junior high, you know, we really took many more after that. We drive to New Jersey to see some of my dad's friends and our neighbors when he was playing with the Giants. And that was really about it. So, you know, I like to get everybody together and go on a family vacation with my parents, my brothers, my in-laws, you know, and take all our kids and go down on the beach for a week. And that's a goal that I have that I try to, that I do every year. That's something that I've always wanted to do. And I'm going to make that work within my schedule. I'm going to make that work

within our financial plan because that's something that I value in my life and I want it to be important. You are what you emphasize in this world. And if you put emphasis on other things, you can vote with time and money. And however you spend your time and money is going to be what you really emphasize. You can tell me what you think it is, but I'm going to look at your bank account and your bank statement, and I'm going to look at where you spend your time, and that's what you're emphasizing. And I try to be, I think it's important to be the best father and the best husband than I can be. You know, and I have personal goals, like I said, trying to go out and, you know, I want to continue to develop my broadcasting career.

I've got some different businesses that, you know, I want to take a more firm ownership in and try to help, you know, guide those a little bit. But most of the goals for me have always been, you know, personal growth goals, you know, long-term goals, and then I try to build on those daily. Because I think that that's the only way you can do it. Yeah, I love it. I think of, like, the compound effect, a great book where you talk about each step you make every single day and each brick you lay, you compound. It grows over time as long as you're consistent, intentional about doing it every single day. So this is, Bobby, this is an incredible man. It's something that I'd love to obviously do again with you.

You're already a pro's pro when it comes to this line of work. I have one more question before we both jump off to get with our kids tonight. And that is in regards to the whole purpose for my show, the learning leader show. It's, you know, I came up with the name just out of things that I love. You know, I love leadership. I've been in that position since a very young age. I've been thrust into it based on the positions I played in sports. I also have grown to develop a love for learning, for devouring whatever book or article on leadership or any, really, any topics that I can become more aware.

So it's called The Learning Leader Show. And I'm curious when you hear that phrase, learning leader, what pops into your mind? Is it a person? Is it a definition? Is it just a thought that you have? what's the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear that phrase? I think it's learning about different leaders. That's what I think about.

And I knew a little bit about it before. And I've read some of your little breakdowns on it. But to me, you know, there is no one leadership style that work that's effective. It's based upon your situation, your set of skills, your personality. And those things all factor into play about what type of leader you're going to be. And I enjoy hearing a lot of a different variety of ways of how. people can get that done. You know, you look at a guy like John Gruden, you look at a guy like Tony Dungey.

Both guys have won Super Bowls as professional coaches, you know, in the NFL. They're very different personalities. People always say that you need this type of person to lead this way and that type of person to lead this other way. And that's not how it works. You've got to be who you are. You've got to own it. And if you can incorporate something that someone else is doing and maybe it's a strength

of yours that you didn't even realize that you can do better, to me, that's what this was all about is, you learn about different leaders in this world, and there's going to be things that they do that you can do really well. And maybe there's going to be things that they do really well, that you're going to realize that you don't do that well. And now it's how do I fill out the people that are around me to accent, you know, those shortcomings that I have, to fill in the gaps to make sure that, you know, when I make decisions, leadership decisions or their business decisions or whatever, that I'm going to have the best

information available because even though I might not know something about this or I might not be great at that particular point, I've got someone who's influencing me who is. And I think that's what that's what's great about this whole process. So good, man. Seriously, thank you, Bob. I really appreciate you investing so much time with me and with the listeners here. I know there's a there's a ton of value you've provided actionable takeaways that people can implement right now. And that's what this is all about. So thank you for being here, man. Look forward. Obviously, our communication will continue as we both progress, man. Thank you, Ryan. I appreciate it. Awesome. All right. Bye. This episode of the Learning Leader Show is over,

but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again. and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.