The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 061: Chris Hogan – The 7 Baby Steps To Take Control Of Your Money… Retire Inspired

Episode Date: October 8, 2015

Episode 061: Chris Hogan – The 7 Baby Steps To Take Control Of Your Money… Retire Inspired Chris Hogan is a really interesting leader.  I’ve seen him speak to large groups of people on two separate occasions and he always brings a ton of energy to the stage.  Mix that with his deep baritone voice and it makes for a unique leader! A former national champion and all-American football player, Chris Hogan has never backed down from a challenge. But how did he find his way off the gridiron and onto the path of helping others achieve financial peace? Once his playing days were over, Hogan served as the vice president of a well-respected mortgage company helping clients manage their money and their businesses. In the process, he realized that too many marriages and families were being adversely impacted by financial issues because they could not communicate openly and honestly about money. Hogan realized that the way people were counseled about money had to change. That’s when he met Dave Ramsey. Today, Hogan helps spread the message of hope and financial peace to audiences across the country. Chris helps people plan for their future and reach their retirement goals through his Retire Inspired Live Events and R:IQ Assessment tool. Hogan works with high profile clients, including business leaders, professional athletes and entertainers, to help them develop financial strategies to generate revenue, protect their wealth, and secure their futures. Episode 061: Chris Hogan – The 7 Baby Steps… Retire Inspired Subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher Radio   The Learning Leader Show “The 7 baby steps: 1) Start an emergency fund  2)Pay off all debt but the house 3) 3 to 6 months of expenses in savings 4) Invest 15% of Household Income Into Retirement 5) College Funding For Children 6)Pay Off Home Early 7) Build Wealth and Give.” Some Questions I Ask: What are common characteristics all high performers share? What are DISC profiles and how do they help you lead? How did you meet Dave Ramsey? How do highly demanding people work successfully with relational type people? If you had only 5 minutes to give financial advice to a person, what would you say? Why did you feel the need to write the book “Retire Inspired”? Would you ever branch off away from Dave Ramsey? How do you handle people who doubt your message and your “haters?” In This Episode, You Will Learn: The 7 baby steps and how you can implement them into your life Having a growth mindset and the importance of it Public speaking preparation skills The process to become a millionaire Why it’s bad for a startup to have all “high D’s” The many different ways to lead “There are 15,000 to 19,000 people retiring daily.  I want to help them.” – Chris Hogan Continue Learning Read more about Chris: chrishogan360.com   Follow Chris on Twitter @ChrisHogan360 Read articles written by Chris: CHris Hogan Articles You may also like these episodes: Episode 003: The Incredibly Interesting Story Of Maurice Clarett And How He Built A 6 Figure Income After Spending 4 Years In Prison Episode 002: How To Take Over And Set Bigger Goals With Chris Brogan Episode 004: How Todd Wagner (and Mark Cuban) Sold Broadcast.com To Yahoo! For $5.7 Billion Episode 010: Shane Snow – How To Accelerate Success Using Smart Cuts Did you enjoy the podcast? This episode was absolutely jam packed with great information on a variety of topics.  Chris Hogan is definitely a leader who is always striving to improve and help others.  Who do you know that needs to hear this?  Send them to The Learning Leader Show! Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell Bio from ChrisHogan360.com   A former national champion and all-American football player, Chris Hogan has never backed down from a challenge. But how did he find his way off the gridiron and onto the path of helping others achieve financial peace? Once his playing days were over, Hogan served as the vice president of a well-respected mortgage company helping clients manage their money and their businesses. In the process, he realized that too many marriages and families were being adversely impacted by financial issues because they could not communicate openly and honestly about money. Hogan realized that the way people were counseled about money had to change. That’s when he met Dave Ramsey.  Today, Hogan helps spread the message of hope and financial peace to audiences across the country. Chris helps people plan for their future and reach their retirement goals through his Retire Inspired Live Events and R:IQ Assessment tool. Hogan works with high profile clients, including business leaders, professional athletes and entertainers, to help them develop financial strategies to generate revenue, protect their wealth, and secure their futures.

Well, the first thing I do is sit down and talk with a 27-year-old and find out their hopes and their dreams. That's one of the things I always start with. I want to understand what people want to accomplish. And then I'm going to talk with them about what are they willing to give up to get to that dream? What are they willing to sacrifice? And what I'm doing when I do that is I'm finding out how committed they are to it and how focused they are on achieving the goal. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on,

on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Tonight's featured leader is Chris Hogan. Chris is a leader in Dave Ramsey's organization. He's known as a featured personality.

What he does, he goes around the country giving speeches to people on a number of topics, mainly including finances, how to ensure you are doing it the right way. And we talked about a number of those aspects of what he does on a daily basis. He's spoken to hundreds of thousands of people over the last seven years. I've been fortunate enough to be in the audience of a couple of those speeches. He's also got a book coming out in January titled Retire Inspired. We dive into what that book is specifically about in our conversation.

tonight. A few other topics we got into. Chris recently released a video titled How to Be a Millionaire, knowing this is a hot topic. A lot of people want to be a millionaire. Chris describes some of the specifics on how to make that happen. We also got into communication styles and profiles on how Chris uses these with leaders to help them communicate and overcome any potential issues in their businesses. As well as I asked them the question, if you only had five minutes to give lifetime financial advice to somebody, what would you say? I think you'll find his answer very interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's Chris Hogan. Okay, Chris, extremely excited to have you here as the featured leader on

the Learning Leader Show. My first question to get us kicked off is around high achievers, people who have done big things in their lives. And you've, you know, you've been fortunate, Chris, to spend good amount of time around those types of individuals, whether you work with them, with, with Dave Ramsey and colleagues, as well as when you give your speeches to other big time organizations. And I have a question around the common characteristics of those achievers. What are a few of those common characteristics those people all share? Sure, absolutely.

I think number one is that they're very, very focused. They know exactly what they're wanting to accomplish. And they have a game plan on how they're going to go about it. I think they're also very clear and they understand the importance of time ownership. Now, notice I say ownership, not management. When you own your time, you also own your results. So they're very clear on what they need to do. And they also follow a very succinct schedule.

Their days are laid out. They know where they're supposed to be and they're right where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there. Yeah, I love that, especially the part about owning their time. I think that's a really big topic that we need. to focus on even more. Talk a little bit more about the ownership of time and not just being a time manager, so to speak. Well, when you manage something, you're managing something that someone else owns. I was a bank manager in a previous life, and so I didn't own the bank, but my job was to make sure that people were doing their job and that I was doing my own. But when you look at something

like you own it, like your vehicle, like your home, things of that nature, now it's much more personal. And when you look at time ownership, now you start to own the day. You're very clear on exactly where you're spending your time and you're right there doing the things that you're supposed to be doing. And so it just gives another level of responsibility. It gives another level of ownership in the whole process so you don't have time get away from you. You actually happen to your day. Do a few people come to mind or is there a specific person you're thinking of when you think of high achievers owning time doing those types of things? Well, I mean, for me firsthand, having an opportunity to work with Dave for the last 10 years,

I've seen him excel in this ownership. This man has a million things going on, lots of meetings, lots of details that he tends to, but he's on top of the game. And not to mention he's doing a radio show every single day, plus other events. And so to see him at that high level be able to be effective as well as intentional in all of those things. It's a great example for me as I grow. I love it.

And obviously I'm a big fan of you as well as Dave's work. I've been to your trainings on more than one occasion. I got a lot out of it. And I love to take a step back now, Chris, and to go into your background and how you've gotten to the point where you currently are. Maybe some of the things you've done as well as what you're currently doing. Sure.

Well, and when I started after, graduate school, I started into the financial world and began to kind of move up the ranks and then went into mainstream banking and then into mortgages and then working with people on the wealth side of things with pro athletes and entertainers. And so it's been this gradual progression of expanding my knowledge as well, but being able to be intentional and making sure I'm helping other people get better. And that's one of those things that I take very, very seriously because I understand that progress is a choice. But everybody needs some guidance. We all need a cheerleader. We've all had coaches in our careers, whether in music or sport. You've had somebody that wanted you to get better. And I think

that's important for us to have. And we need to have those kinds of people around us to make sure we're pushing towards better. So you and you also former athlete as well in college, correct? Yes, I did. And I think haven't been an athlete, the value of teamwork, but also understanding the importance of knowing your role and how your role fits into the bigger picture. And I think that those are things that definitely kind of translate over into the business world and that those are things that everybody on the team needs to understand what direction are we going, how are we going to get there, and then what are the expected results once we arrive?

Yeah. And also, so I've had the, I've been very fortunate to see you speak on multiple occasions. And I'm, you know, I'm fascinated by people who get up and talk in front of group. It's a skill that a lot of people are afraid to do. It's really hard to do it well. And you've excelled at it for quite some time now. And I'm curious about your process as far as preparation. How do you come up with your message? How do you decide to add in humor when you do, which always seems to be the perfect time? I'm curious about that aspect of you, Chris. Well, it is, you know, whenever you're speaking to me, I look at it that I'm having a conversation

just with many people. And I realize the importance of people being given information. But the way in which you do it, that really are the things that make the difference between something being heard versus something being remembered. And so, Ryan, I give a lot of reps. I do a lot of prep work before I speak. I understand exactly my audience.

I understand our location. And I understand why the topic matters to them. And I think trying to keep those things in mind as you speak, it kind of allows people to, they give you permission to access their minds and their hearts. And I think that's an invaluable thing for anyone that's speaking to constantly try to continue to learn. And your specific topic is that you're an expert on subjects like mortgages, healthcare, investing. You know, unfortunately, I think there's a big need for that. And as you see on a daily basis, especially when it comes to investing in the financial aspects

and kind of that's how Dave has built his empire, so to speak. Talk about how you've become an expert in those areas and how you help people on a daily basis. Well, I think, you know, obviously study is very, very important. Book knowledge can take you so far, but you also need to have an understanding of application. And having been a coach that's set kneecap to kneecap with people on the financial side, for many years here, you get an opportunity to see different situations,

how the decisions impact people. And so it allows you to kind of drill down in and study, but also to reach out and grow your network. Make sure you're connecting with people that are smarter than you, people that have more experienced than you. They can pour into you and help you grow as well. What's your day like, Chris? I mean, I know it's different and you're traveling and everything,

but I'm curious about that. Your day, you're one of the Ramsey personalities. You, you know, obviously present, you help people constantly. But what's a typical day like for? you. My typical day involves, obviously, you know, writing, dealing with emails, connecting with the various kind of sections of our team, whether it's marketing, whether it's PR, from the book that I'm working on, all these different facets. And so I have several meetings each day, the opportunity to do a lot of different media interviews, but also research and prepping talks for various events.

So it's a very eclectic day. I go from thing to thing. But it's one of those things that I love that about what I get to do. It allows me to use different talents, different skill sets, and it keeps me engaged with my day. And so your book, Retire Inspired, is coming out, you mentioned writing, coming out January of 2016. When you hear the phrase retire inspired, let's dig in there. What's the genesis or the basis for why you're writing the book as well, what it's exactly going to be about? Yeah, right now on average, we have between 15,000 and 19,000 people a day retiring. And what I've found in the last 10 years being here with Dave is that a lot of people are fearful of this topic. They don't know what to expect.

They're not really sure how to plan. And so for me to kind of hit that fear straight on, I want people to show people what steps they need to take. How do they begin to prepare for retirement? Because I don't want them to retire sad. I don't want them to retire scared. I want them to retire inspired, knowing that they have other things that they have to do. You know, retirement's not a two or three or five year thing. It can be a 20 or a 30 year time frame.

So I want people to be prepared for that next chapter of their life. Retirement's not the end. It's the beginning. It's the best years of your life. And I want people to be prepared so they can enjoy it. What are some of the, if you had to give a brief Cliff Notes version, what are some of the main topics? or maybe you drill down on a couple of the topics that are in the book. Well, first of all, the first thing I do in the book is I really kind of hit on

and redefine the word retirement, where it doesn't have to be the end. And I walk people through the understanding and really the history of retirement, how it came to be. And then I walk through and begin to show people these five to six key areas that if they focus on and really drill down in and follow the information that I'm giving them, it's going to put them on track to be able to make progress. And that's what I want people to understand, regardless of how old you are, it's never too late. And regardless of how young you are, it's never too early to get started.

What are some of those key areas? Well, the first is obviously understanding how money works, the importance of budgeting, the importance of debt, and how avoiding debt is so crucial to you try to make financial progress. And then we walk through and talk about how you have to understand your number. How do you start to develop and understand how much money you're going to need? And then how do you invest the right way? And then how do you start to deal with family and money at the same time? So a lot of different areas in there. But I want to kind of help people try to see it from this 30,000 foot view, but be able to drill down in and hit them right where they are.

And you have recently released a video titled How to Become a Millionaire. And one of the questions is, you know, if people ask you is, you know, can I become a millionaire? or how can I do it? And you talk about that on a video. I'd love for you to share what that's all about because that's obviously not an uncommon question. I think some people don't think it's realistic, and you share how it is realistic, and I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah, I think, you know, when people think of money, obviously,

becoming a millionaire has kind of become the thing that everyone talks about. There's a show out there, you know, who wants to be a millionaire, and you hear all these things. What I wanted to do was to hit that word and then help people understand, what are some practical steps you need to take to begin to reach that status? But I want people to understand that you can't just wish for progress. Progress requires that you work. And so when you start to understand how money works and that if you can tell it where to go instead of wondering where it went, if we start to tell money to go into savings and we start

to control our habits, we can reach millionaire status, but we have to stay focused and we have to stay willing to sacrifice. Yeah, the financial part obviously is really interesting because it's an area where we all can get better. Some people have, you know, with varying degrees of need to improve. What initially was it about what Dave Ramsey does that attracted you to it? Or I guess maybe in a better question was, what was the process like for you to join his group as a personality. Well, it was Dave and I crossed paths through a charity function and had an opportunity to connect and have some conversations. And for me, you know, being aware of him at that time, but getting a chance to meet him, seeing his heart, understanding how passionate he was to make

sure he was helping other people. That was the thing that I found most attractive. I had this knowledge of money and how money worked, but I wasn't really plugged in into a way that I was giving people hope. I was given people loans at the time working for the bank. And so I really wanted to educate and help people. And so the opportunity to join Dave's team gave me the opportunity to really expand

and use the skills and knowledge I had, but to use it to help people improve their financial futures. And so for me, it was a game-changing opportunity. Do you imagine that, like, I don't know what your plans are. Maybe you don't either, but

do you see yourself ever branching off and not being a part of that group? No, I realize that where I am right now, I'm kind of, I'm in my sweet spot. I'm surrounded by an incredible team. We have almost 500 team members here of highly charged, effective people from my publicist to our marketing team, to our web team. We've got people here that are all kind of cut from the same cloth, people that are focused on making sure we're helping other people.

And so who knows where the Lord may guide me, but right. now this is where I'm supposed to be and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Yeah, I can tell and it's obvious that you could sense it in the passion, the way you speak and what you talk about certainly when you give your keynotes. Another thing you go over are our disc profiles and that deals with personalities of people and really digging into what makes a person tick and what they're all about. Could you talk more about the importance of the disc profiles? Sure. Well, when talking about the disc, what it is is understanding that we all come here kind of pre-wired with our own personality style. And there are basically four styles involved at the disc. But what I want to help people to understand is that everybody comes here pre-wired. So it's important for us to understand those four styles. How do they communicate? How do we need to communicate with them? You see, because life is really about relationships. And the people that have the most connections win.

Because when you're connected with people, you not only understand what makes them tick, but you understand why they work and why it matters. Well, as leaders, the more we can know about people, the more we can connect with them. And so I love teaching that information and we have a lot of fun with it. But at the root of it, I think people come away thinking, my goodness, I wish I would have known this sooner, because it allows you to work better with your family. It allows you to work better with colleagues. It allows people to network a lot better. So it's knowledge that I think everyone should have. What are some of those styles that you could get into a little bit deeper?

Sure. Well, there are four basic styles. There's the decisive. There's the interactive. There's the stabilizing and the cautious. And essentially, the decisive is the go-getter. They want to get things done. You have the interactive where they're focused more on people.

They're fun-loving. They love people. The stabilizing personality is more focused on pace and teamwork. And the cautious personality is more focused on details than information. And so those four different types have four different approaches to how they communicate, how they work, and how they feel rewarded and how they feel appreciated. And so when you start to have that knowledge, you can kind of look around at your teammates or vendors that you might use in business and truly understand how you can connect better, how you can communicate better and how you can help them, help themselves to get better each and every day. So let's make it practical here. So how, if you are working with two people and it's critical that those two people have a great line of communication in order for their business to be successful.

And the CEO is a high D, as I know you guys call them, very decisive, maybe demanding, you know, high expectations. And their business partner or a person they need to work with on a regular basis is the cautious type. what's your coaching to them in order to most help them be successful? Okay, great question. Brian, one of the things I would do is with the high D as the CEO is to help him understand that he's focused on getting things done. Results.

High Ds don't necessarily do a lot of details. They like big picture. They like to move fast. So I would help him to understand that in order for the business to be effective, he's going to have to need people that are cautious, that are detail-oriented. So what I'm going to do is help each one of the styles see the value in each other, see why they're necessary to the overall mission of the business.

And if we're putting the mission of the business first, everyone can step outside themselves and understand what do we have to do for the best interest of the business. And I'm going to help us see the cautious personality who's very detail-oriented. They're much more methodical. They move slower. I'm going to help them to understand why it's important for them to communicate the details, in a way that everybody can understand it. And so by seeing each person's value,

what you now have in the workplace is respect. And then everybody values each other, you're going to work better then. When one person doesn't see themselves as better or their way is better, they understand that the business needs all four styles to be effective. Yeah, I'm fascinated by this topic.

I think there's a lot to talk about when it comes to personality types and the way people approach their work. So let's say you're looking at one of these new startups. Seems like you get out Fortune Magazine or Inc or any of these, and they're doing these deep dives into a company like Airbnb or Uber or anything like that. I mean, you study their leadership. What if you got four guys, and that seems like a lot of these have like three or four guys.

They're starting the company. And all of them are high Ds. They're very decisive. They're all the alpha, alpha male, I guess. in some of these cases, they want to be the take charge guy. How do you coach and help that relationship? Well, if I'm talking to guys that are starting a company in all four or, you know, guys or gals and they're all high D. The first thing I'm going to tell them is that, A, all of your ideas are not great.

You know, high Ds, we have big ideas every 13 seconds. I'm one of those to myself. But what I would get them to do is to understand that they're going to have to backfill for the weaknesses. They're going to have to make sure that they have people around them that are detail-oriented because at the end of the day, are we talking about a business that we want to thrive, or are we simply talking about an idea that might be cool if? And when you're talking about a business that you're trying to start, then you understand the people that you need to get on the bus,

the people you need to complete the team. And I would help them understand that that's imperative that they find those people first and foremost before they take another step forward. Yeah, again, I think that's a really interesting. interesting topic. So let's say somebody had five minutes to meet with you, Chris. And so, you know, your time with them is really narrowed down. And the person, what you're tasked with doing is giving them five minutes worth of advice when it comes to managing their money. So this person is 27 years old, has a decent job, wants to retire as a millionaire. What are the, what are the,

What's the five-minute advice you're giving that person as a 27-year-old? Well, the first thing I do is sit down and talk with a 27-year-old and find out their hopes and their dreams. That's one of the things I always start with. I want to understand what people want to accomplish. And then I'm going to talk with them about what are they willing to give up to get to that dream? What are they willing to sacrifice? And what I'm doing when I do that is I'm finding out how committed they are to it and how focused they are on achieving the goal. Once we move from there, then I'm going to talk to him about Dave's seven baby steps.

I mean, it is the key foundational pieces of information for people that want to be successful with money. And I would walk them through the baby steps. And then I would say, okay, now, we've got to get intentional on making sure if you have debt that we're getting out of debt. And so you're attacking debt smallest to biggest. And I'm going to make sure that they understand the value of budgeting. That budgeting isn't just something that you do, but it's a habit and a skill that you're going to always. have to have in order to be successful with money. Because once you earn and you gain some money, we've got to be able to manage it well.

And then after that, I would talk to them about investing to find out their risk tolerance. Are they aggressive? Are they a little more cautious with it? And find out their habits and help them to understand that they would need to connect with an investment professional to help guide them. It's almost like a tour guide when you go to a new country or visit a place you've never been. You need to get someone that's familiar with the territory and understand how it's and understand how it works.

And those are the things that I would tell at that 27-year-old. What are the seven baby steps for the people who haven't heard those before? Sure. Well, Dave's seven baby steps, they are first to start off with a $1,000 emergency fund. Baby step two is then you want to attack all the debts you have using the debt snowball, attacking them smallest to biggest. And these are all the debts except for your house. So credit cards, car loans and that sort.

Then you move, once you do that, you move to Baby Step three, which is to begin to build up a fully funded emergency fund. This would be three to six months of your expenses. So if it takes you $5,000 a month to run your household, you'd have three times that or six times that saved up in a money market account for a rainy day. Once you do that, now you're going to hit the steps and you're going to start to do multiple things at once.

Baby step number four is where you invest 15% of your household income into retirement type of accounts. Then you're also going to start to save for college if you have kids. And then baby step six is you're going to attack and pay off your mortgage. And baby step seven, you're going to build wealth and give. Those are the seven baby steps. Yeah, really interesting.

I think it simplifies something that is probably, like I said, that is needed within our country, really worldwide when it comes to budgeting and understanding money. Now, let's talk a little bit, Chris, about, I mean, when you're as popular, as what you are and what Dave is, you're going to have people who disagree with you or who say your philosophy isn't right or they say, you know, it's not a credit card problem, it's a personal responsibility problem.

What do you say to people like that who criticize you guys or say what you're saying might not be what they think is accurate? Oh, I'm okay with people that doubt or criticize. I'm okay with that because I've seen the millions of people that we've helped and I've lived it. And when you work it, it works. And so at the end of the day, when I talk

with people about dealing with money, I want them to understand a little, little three by five piece of plastic or credit card, it doesn't do anything. It's the humans that take it to the store and use it. So it all comes back to personal behavior. And so I just want people to know and understand

that as an entity, what Dave and I want people to do is to be successful with money. But I'm a firm believer, Ryan, that if you're standing for anything and you're pushing against the grain, you're going to have people that don't disagree. And I'm okay with that. But I'm focused on people understanding the heart that we come at with this information, that we want people to do better. And millions of people have woken up and rose to the challenge, and they've started to take control of their financial futures.

That makes a lot of sense. You know, you'll read that. Like I said, anybody who's had a lot of So I think of a guy like Tim Ferriss, a guy who I'm a, I study his work and I listen to his podcast and he says a lot of interesting things. But at times can be polarizing and he's got a lot of people who love them. But he's also got people who dislike what he says or disagrees of them. And I think that seems to be a common threat amongst a lot of people who have had a big effect on a big number of people is that there's still going to be that faction of population out there that vehemently disagrees or at least is loud. in their disagreement with the person. Yeah, and I think, you know what, that's okay. What you have to do is when you're focused,

you stay committed to what it is you're supposed to be doing. And I think it really boils down to the spirit of the matter. You know, when you're focused and you know you're doing what you're supposed to be doing and you've lived out some results, that makes you more passionate. You want to share that information with people so they can feel the same kind of relief you have for yourself. And so people matter. You know, that's one of my mantras at the end of the day, is that people matter.

And I've sat with people that are hurting, sat with people that are scared. And when they wake up and they start to see that this money stuff is 20% head knowledge and it's 80% behavior, that they can control their behaviors. And I want people to understand that you didn't get where you are overnight. But what you can do is start to work systematically, work a methodology that's going to allow you to improve from where you are now. Makes a lot of sense. Especially I really like the line is 20% head. head knowledge and 80% behavior. I think that makes a complete sense. When it comes to,

so Chris, I know I want to be respectful of your time. So I got one more question for you. It's around the whole purpose behind my show. It's called The Learning Leader Show. It's all about leadership, serving others, helping people, as well as helping yourself and learning how you can improve and being consistent and constant in that approach to getting better, to improving, to learning as much as you possibly can. When you hear the phrase learning leader, what's the first thing that pops into your mind? Is it a person? Is it a definition? What are you thinking when you hear that phrase? I just automatically when I hear learning leader, I think of growth. I think of being intentional. And that growing is in your relationships that you have, not only with people that are

your peers, but also get connected with people that are achieving in the level that you want to one day. Get people that push you, you know, and move you forward. Make sure that you're staying intentional about your own growth as well. And that's the reading. Those are podcasts. Those are shows that you watch. And, you know, so I just, I really, the word intentional pops out in my head because growth is available to all of us. It's just a matter of picking and choosing and making sure that we're working in the right direction. I love it. I think it's a just a great thought around it. So, Chris, I really appreciate you investing your time with me as well as a listener here of The Learning Leader Show.

Where can everyone go to find you online? They can connect with me at my website at chrishogan360.com. They can also connect with me on Twitter or Facebook. It's at chrishogan360.com as well. Perfect. And I'll make sure that's all linked up in the show notes at LearningLeader.com. So, Chris, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it, man.

Hey, thank you for having me, Ryan. Right. Talk soon. Bye. Take care. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.