The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 063: Whitney Johnson – How To Disrupt Yourself To Dare, Dream, and DO Remarkable Things

Episode Date: October 15, 2015

Episode 063: Whitney Johnson – How To Disrupt Yourself To Dare, Dream, and DO Remarkable Things This was a very interesting conversation with Whitney Johnson... She has an extremely interesting story to tell about how she disrupted herself in order to do something bigger.  She was an incredibly successful equity analyst and she quit in order to follow a dream of doing something bigger and helping others.  Whitney Johnson is an investor, speaker, author, and leading thinker on driving innovation through personal disruption.  Johnson is the co-founder of Rose Park Advisors, along with Clayton Christensen where they led the seed round for Korea’s Coupang, currently valued at $5+ billion. Whitney is a frequent contributor and writer, including to the Harvard Business Review, as a LinkedINfluencer, and through other channels. She is the author of two books, Dare, Dream, Do (2012), and the Disrupt Yourself: Putting the Power of Disruptive Innovation to Work (2015). She is also a prolific speaker and has spoken to audiences of more than 25,000 on her ideas and vision. Johnson is represented by the New Leaf Speakers bureau, along with other thought leaders in business and innovation. Episode 063: Whitney Johnson – How To Disrupt Yourself To Dare, Dream, and DO Remarkable Things Subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher Radio   The Learning Leader Show “What does disruptive innovation look like for an individual?” Some Questions I Ask: What are common characteristics of people who have achieved success? What does it mean to “disrupt yourself?” Why did you write “Dare, Dream, Do?” What possessed you to quit your job as an extremely successful Equity Analyst? Why do we fail to implement and execute our plans? What does the first 60 minutes of your look like? What is the first thing that pops in your mind when you hear the phrase, “Learning Leader?” “Too often we hear people say, I don’t have permission to dream.” In This Episode, You Will Learn: What it means to disrupt yourself The importance of curiosity and drive Deliberate practice and implementation of new ideas.  A “how to” guide to making this happen How this theory can apply and be done by anyone Why we must be uncomfortable to grow The need to take risks A learning leader is continually asking questions Continue Learning Go to Whitney’s website: whitneyjohnson.com Buy her book and read the incredibly impressive reviews on Amazon: Disrupt Yourself Read: "Dare, Dream, Do: Remarkable Things Happen when you Dare to Dream" Follow Whitney on Twitter: @johnsonwhitney You may also like these episodes: Episode 001: How To Become A Master Connector With Jayson Gaignard From MasterMind Talks Episode 002: How To Take Over And Set Bigger Goals With Chris Brogan Episode 004: How Todd Wagner (and Mark Cuban) Sold Broadcast.com To Yahoo! For $5.7 Billion Episode 010: Shane Snow – How To Accelerate Success Using Smart Cuts Did you enjoy the podcast? I love learning from people who bring a new idea to the table… That is what Whitney Johnson has done.  She is an extremely interesting and inspiring person. Who do you know that needs to hear this?  Send them to The Learning Leader Show! Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell Bio From WhitneyJohnson.com Whitney Johnson is an investor, speaker, author, and leading thinker on driving innovation through personal disruption.  Johnson is the co-founder of Rose Park Advisors, along with Clayton Christensen where they led the seed round for Korea’s Coupang, currently valued at $5+ billion. Whitney is a frequent contributor and writer, including to the Harvard Business Review, as a LinkedINfluencer, and through other channels. She is the author of two books, Dare, Dream, Do (2012), and the Disrupt Yourself: Putting the Power of Disruptive Innovation to Work (2015). She is also a prolific speaker and has spoken to audiences of more than 25,000 on her ideas and vision. Johnson is represented by the New Leaf Speakers bureau, along with other thought leaders in business and innovation.

If I were to consider myself a learning leader, I would hope that I would be continually introspective, continually figuring out how to move from stuck to unstuck, because I believe that if I can disrupt myself as an individual, then that will have a ripple effect to allow disruption and learning to take place inside of my inner circle, inside of the corporations or organizations of which I'm a part, and then the broader community. born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning

Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. And tonight's featured leader is Whitney Johnson. Whitney is an investor, a speaker, an author, and a leading thinker on driving innovation through personal disruption. Whitney is also the author of two fantastic books called Dare, Dream, Do. That's her first one that really put her on the map. It's a phenomenal book. And her second one that just came out is called Disrupt Yourself. I would encourage you to get both of them.

They're really good books. Previously, she was an equity analyst on Wall Street working with billionaires all over the world, having immense success. And one day, she decided to just simply quit to pursue her dreams. We discussed that in detail on our conversation tonight. I think you'll find that part fascinating. Also, there are actionable tips that all of us can implement right now into our daily lives to help with our quality of life.

Interesting aspect and some stories that we discussed out that I thought could be helpful for everyone. And also we define personal disruption. Whitney has written a lot about this. She studied this. There's a lot of science backing up everything she says. I think you'll find her absolutely fascinating. I know I did.

Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's Whitney Johnson. All right, Whitney, extremely excited to have you here on the Learning Leader Show. I know the listeners are as well. I got a quick question to get us kicked off here with some umph. And that question is around high achievers and people who have done big things their lives and you're obviously one of those people you've inspired others to dream and to do big things as well. And I'm curious from the high achievers that you've spent time around.

And this obviously includes yourself. What are some of the common characteristics that those people all seem to share? What a great question. I'd say there are two things that immediately come to mind. The first is, and again, I'm going to start with an N of one, which is myself. The first one I would say is they're driven. I think high achievers are intensely, intensely driven to progress, to improve, to go from stuck to unstuck. And I think that that is a motivating force for every person that achieves a great deal in their lives.

I don't know how they're defining success because we all define success differently, but I think that that is the driving force is that they are driven. The second thing I would say, and this comes based on research that was done by Corn Ferry International not too long ago, is that high achievers are insanely curious or inveterately curious. And it's interesting because you said at the very beginning, you mentioned the word curiosity. And the reason being is that when you're curious, you ask questions and you want to know why. And you not only want to know why about things that are going on outside or beyond you or out in the world, but you also want to know why you do, you as an individual, do what you do. And so I think there's this curiosity that permeates every aspect of who they are, both in trying to understand the external world as well as the internal world,

which again goes back to this drive to understand and to make sense of the world and to move forward, not back. I love it. You go to my website, learningleader.com. You'll see at the top of it, Whitney, it says, are you massively curious? You know, that's been something that's been a part of my life. As long as I can remember, my parents can remember that, too. Well, you have to definitely look up that study by Corn Fairy.

Corn Farr. How do you spell that? It's K-O-R-N-F-E-R-Y international. I actually referenced it in my book while we're chit-chatting. I'll see if I can find the page number. But, yeah, it's a really interesting study, and it said that the two top traits were curiosity and an ability to deal with ambiguity to navigate uncertainty. And the two really go together. I love it.

Okay, perfect. I will, I got made a note. It'll be in the show notes too on my website just for people listening. So Whitney, let's take a step back now. I would love to give you the floor here for a moment to share your story, your journey. I know it's hard to do in a short period of time, but that's why podcasting is great. It's long form. But I love to hear about some of the things that you've done along the way for the people who don't know you yet

so you can share some of the things that you've done, as well as what you're currently working on today. All right. It's always difficult. Do I speak linearly or do I talk from the president? Completely up to you. Yeah. Okay. So I think what I'll do is I'll start sort of from the president and then work back. So the two things that I'm really focused on are two words, disrupt yourself, personal disruption. And really what motivates me is a few years ago, actually, it's now been a decade in 2005. I was working as an equity analyst on Wall Street covering stocks in Latin America. It was my job to issue buy and sell recommendations on these stocks. And when they would move, they would typically go up or down several percentage points.

And I was very much at the top of my game. I had Carlos Slim, one of the world's richest men, who was also the controlling shareholder of America, which I covered, you know, quoting my research, calling me La Whitney. And one day I announced to my friends that I'm going to quit my job, just quit. And one of my really good friends said to me, are you sure you know what you're doing? But it was really code for have you absolutely lost your mind? Because here I was, I was very much at the top of my game.

I was making a lot of money. I had a lot of stature within my sphere of influence, and I was going to walk away from it all. She also knew that getting to that place had been really, really tough for me because 15 years prior to that. So late 80s, early 90s, I had arrived in New York, I was a music major in college. I had never set foot in a business course.

I had no connections in New York. I had very little confidence. And so I started on the lowest wrong of the latter, which was as a secretary, and eventually was able to work my way up from a secretary to an investment banker, which if you've worked on Wall Street, you know that doesn't happen. And then I became an equity research analyst and eventually co-founded an investment firm with Clayton Christensen at the Harvard Business School. And the two common themes for those events really, you know, 15 years apart were that when I walked onto Wall Street through this secretarial side door, and then again, when I walked off of Wall Street, to become an entrepreneur, I was effectively a disruptor.

And so a disruptor, just to be clear, because there's a lot of ways you can describe it like banging your pencil on the table and getting sent to the principal's office. But in this particular context, it's a company. or a product or a service that starts at the low end of the market, like an Amazon or an Uber. And then eventually it's considered inferior initially and then eventually upends the industry completely putting Barnes & Noble or borders specifically out of business and now really giving the yellow cab a ride for its money. And in my case, I had started at the bottom, climbed to the top of the ladder, and now I wanted to jump to a new ladder. And that was, I came to understand, understand is I understood the frameworks of disruptive innovation, that this is what a disruptor does,

and that we think about it in terms of products and services, but I had effectively upended my career. And so that has set me on this journey to try to understand what does disruptive innovation look like for an individual, and how can we apply these ideas to help us live a disruptive life in the best sense of the word, meaning continually moving from stuck to unstuck. And so that is what I'm writing about. That's what I'm thinking about. And really, that's what I'm trying to help people accomplish right now, is move from stuck to unstuck by being willing to disrupt themselves.

Wow, that's incredible. Thinking about a number of different things are popping in my head. So, you know, prior to your, so your most recent book coming out, so when this podcast has released, your book will probably have just been released, disrupt yourself. But prior to that, you wrote a great book. called Dare Dream and Do, Dare Dream Do. I love to, so let's go back and forth between the two. And first of all, what was your initial thought process and motivation to write Dare, Dream Do?

Which, if you, anyone, if you just go to Amazon and check that book out and you will see some incredibly inspiring leaders and the things that they've said about your book, like just looking at that page alone has got to make you feel like incredible as the author of that book. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. So anyway. I was so happy. And obviously, you know, I mean, people who endorse the book are so important because they're basically lending their political capital and their good name to help you make a book possible. And, and I'm very cognizant of the fact that because of their willingness to put their name behind that book, that book did well enough and got into enough people's hands that I could write another book and so I feel a deep sense of gratitude for that. But I guess to answer your question,

why did I write that book? Good question. And it came from a very, I guess, deep place, if that's the right way to describe it, where when I disrupted myself and I left Wall Street, so again, this is 2004, 2005, I was no longer working 80 or 90 hours a week and still had a lot more time to talk to my friends and people around me and ask them, you know, and feeling like I'd accomplished this big dream. And so I started asking people, you know, what did you dream of doing? And, you know, tell me about what your dream is and let's make that dream happen. And frequently I was hearing, I don't have a dream or I don't know how to do my dream, but there was often, often and unspoken, I don't have permission to dream. And I was so taken aback by that because I was really taking it

for granted that, of course, you can have a dream. And I'm just, course you can achieve it. And so that book came out of my desire to build a case for and persuade people to dream. And men to an extent that women especially, because what I found is that the way our society is configured, women don't quite believe that our dreams, ambitions, and gifts are as important. And so it was really a manifesto of me trying to encourage people to believe that it's the privilege to dream and then to go and be much very tactical of how do you figure out what your dream is and then how do you make that dream happen. So that's, that was the genesis of that book. It's much more of a personal book, much more of a, let's sit down and have a cup of hot

chocolate together. You will find that as I write that book or as I wrote that book, I didn't talk from the podium. I spoke, as you said to me earlier as if we were sitting down together, having a cup of hot chocolate together and having a conversation about our dreams and and hopes and desires. And what, you know, one of the things I love about doing a podcast and this is different, but there's got to be a little bit of similarities, is getting feedback from people who are affected by the work that you do. And for me, for me, it's to get emails or comments from people stating that something

that you've put out or content you've created or at least, curated in my case has helped them do something, take action. And I got to believe a book like that has created so much action and so much dreaming, which has then turned into action that you've got to, you've had to have received a ton of response. What has that been like since that book came out? Well, it's really, it's a very gratifying moment. I think when you, yeah, I mean, it's, I can think one story in particular where because a friend that I hadn't seen for a very long time read the book. And this is simple, but I think it goes to really what the whole purpose of this is, is that she had played the violin in college and had it set aside and wasn't touching it and kept

thinking, you know, someday, someday, someday. And she said that after she read, she was quite an accomplished violinist. She said that after she read my book, she picked up her violin again. And that for me, that snapshot for me, as I'm sure you can relate, just makes you think, okay, this is why, I mean, I write because I have something to say, or I want to figure out what I feel and think, but we write because we have something to say. And when we find that in fact there's effect to the cause, that's deeply satisfying. And so I would actually ask you, can you tell me of one instance where there's been a podcast and someone's been really moved and transformed by a conversation that you've had?

I'd be curious. Yeah, you know, I just heard a great example from a friend of mine. So a friend of mine named Lance Sauer's actually, he told me he was inspired by first hearing the podcast and the action taken and some of the messages that he'd heard from me as well as the guest. Obviously, there's some really fantastic guests like yourself. And he started a blog, and he's a fantastic writer, an incredibly just a phenomenal writer. And because of his blog, which is already doing really well, a person that he used to know, who lives out in Colorado, and I live here in Ohio, and he lives in Ohio, was inspired to start his own business with his wife. And the guy said that he started based on seeing the writing of one of my friends who started writing because of the podcast. So you see like the tail there.

There is so much that comes from. But, you know, it's been cool to get stories like that. Or to hear from somebody who maybe is overseas and they're defending our country and they listen to it. Like that's a little bit different. but in a way if that somehow gives solace to or makes that person inspired or a little bit happier because I know there's there's obviously some really tough things that those people are my heroes, you know, the ones defending our country overseas. They have to sacrifice so much.

And if they are writing an email or they are saying something has positively affected them, like that is as good as it gets. That's better than money. That's better than anything for me to hear that you could have an impact on people. people in that way. And that drives you. It drives me. It makes me want to keep working incredibly hard at it because you hear stories about, like I said, the third person in line starting a business or a person fighting a war getting something out of it. Those are some of the examples that really have made an impact on me. Yeah, you know, as you say that, I think, I think, you know, we talk a lot

about Maslow's hierarchy and how one of the fundamental needs is to feel safe. But I think one of one of the, beyond feeling safe and having our basic needs met, I think one of our deepest fundamental needs is to feel useful, right? And I think the common thread between what you just shared and what I just shared is that in both instances, we felt that we were useful. And when we feel useful, there's just something that just goes to the deepest part of ourselves, I think. That's a great point. I love the thinking there because I firmly believe in that. And just the feel of helping others, you know, you can't put a dollar amount on that. And to see what could come from it, I mean, there's a lot of really neat stories out there.

But when they start, you know, you see the impact that you can have. That's when I personally get extremely excited. When I see, like I said, I see your work. I'm like, I can't imagine the number of people and the scope of just the impact you've had on so many. It has to be extremely gratifying. So you then move on to your current work, which is the book that is as of listeners now, it is out now called Disrupt Yourself. Talk to me. Let's dive a little bit deeper into, first of all, why that book was written and the type of impact you hope it has on people who read it.

Sure. So I wrote the book because, well, there was a really functional reason. And sometimes we just need deadlines is that I had written an article in Harvard. business review called Disrupt Yourself. And I was doing a lot of speaking around that topic out in the world. And my speakers agent said, you know, you really need to leave behind. Would you write something down already? And sometimes you just need that kind of catalyst. So that was kind of the functional reason behind it. But I think the sort of emotional reason for writing this is to be able to, as I analyze the frameworks of disruption, I would say,

I realized that we were continually applying them to products and services and companies and countries, but in fact, these frameworks apply to us as individuals. And I also knew from the theory of disruption that if you will pursue a disruptive course, meaning go to a place and create a new market where it did not before exist and be the first mover, the odds of success are six times higher and the revenue opportunity 20 times greater. So with that kind of data, the point behind the theory of disrupt, my instinct was, well, then I want to apply this to myself as an individual, and how do I codify this process so that other people can disrupt themselves as well? And so what I've done in the book is I've

said, all right, so here's what disruption looks like for the individual. There's an S curve that we typically use to gauge how quickly an innovation will be adopted. When we say S curve, meaning you start at the bottom, progress looks slow, then you develop some competency, you speed up that back of that S curve. And then at the top of the curve, you're very good at what you're doing, but you're a little bit bored. And in order to keep progressing, you need to jump to a new curve, just like you would with a wave. You surf a wave, you get to the top, you go to a new wave. And so I said, okay, here are the frameworks. We progress along the S curve. It helps us understand the psychology. At first we're discouraged. Then we get competent and confident, and then we get bored, time to jump to

a new curve. And then what I did, again, to go to the very tactical and practical, is identify seven steps that will allow you to move up that curve more quickly, from taking the right kinds of risks to playing to your distinctive strengths, to embracing your constraints, to battling entitlement, and then being discovery-driven, which goes back to that initial data point of you're curious, and when you're curious, you're going to be able to move up the curve more quickly. And my hope with the book is that people will, when they read this, figure out how to move up their current learning curves more quickly, and perhaps, more importantly, when they're at the top of a curve and begin to feel stuck, they will have

the courage, the toolkit they need to jump to the new curve and to disrupt themselves. Interesting. So let's try if we can to roll plate a little bit. This is not the easiest thing to do, especially on the fly, but I just popped my head. So let's say I come to you and I am a 33-year-old married mom of three. And I am an accountant and I'm a good at it. However, I don't like it. And I have some ideas. Maybe I have an entrepreneurial spirit. And, you know, I have some support at home, but I do also have, you know, a spouse and a mortgage and all these things. So, so you're talking to me, the 33-year-old mom who has a pretty good job, makes a decent living, but feeling a little bit stuck. What's that conversation sound like if that

mom comes to Whitney Johnson and says, what should I do? What do I do? Okay. So I think the first thing I would ask is I would want to get a little bit more information, like how long have you been an accountant? Do you like doing the accountancy work? Is it a case of you don't like being an accountant or you don't like, you know, the boss that you've hired to be your current boss? And perhaps the problem would be solved if you worked somewhere else or you or you freelanced, et cetera. So I'd try to ferret that out first. Is it the discipline or is it the working environment? Once I figured that out, I would probably also find out. I mean, you said a little bit that there's some financial cushion, but probably not enough to quit your job willy-nilly, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'd then say, okay, well, if you think you would like to do something else and sort of entrepreneurial, the first step is you need to take the right risks. And so as you're thinking about something you might want to do, what are some problems that need to be solved that are currently not being solved? Problems that people think that don't even really matter, but you know they matter. And is there a problem that once you sort of start to think through that and what kinds of jobs need to be done, then I would ask you, okay, well, how can you take your strength, your strength of being an accountant, and apply that to solving that problem? Because I would say to her, there are going to be a lot of problems that people need solving,

but you need to solve the problems that you are best equipped to solve. So you may see an opportunity for photography, but if you're not a good photographer, then that's not the right problem for you to solve. That's not the right curve for you to jump on. And so I would want you to identify what some of your strengths are, is being an accountant to your superpower and what other superpowers do you have, and can you pair up that superpower with a problem that needs to be solved?

The third thing I would do, and then I'll probably stop there, is say to you, what are all the constraints that you see? So you're telling me you don't have quite enough money. You've got three children at home. Your husband's working. So you probably don't have a lot of time. Well, how can you turn those constraints that you have into an opportunity and think through that and what that could mean? So perhaps there are other people out there, for example, that want to have businesses and you want to work for yourself. You're a great accountant. Could you become a part-time accountant for people? Work from home, have more flexibility, advise startups, for example. So we would just start brainstorming and iterating, always asking those questions of, is there a problem that needs to be solved, how much competition is there in your market? Maybe there's a lot of competition in Ohio, but maybe there aren't very many people that are doing what you're doing when you live, where you live in Florida, for example. And then again, does this play to your strengths? And I would also then go through

this battery of questions of like, how do we know what your strengths are? What compliments do people give you that you immediately dismiss. Well, those are probably your superpowers, et cetera, et cetera. And so we would walk through that as a way of figuring out what kind of curve could she jump to? When is it time to jump to a new curve? It's probably not time yet and prepare her so that when it is time, she's got these different pieces lined up so that she can move up that curve very quickly and not stall

out at the bottom of the learning curve. I need to take a drink of water. Yeah, it's all good. Oh, good. That is, so Whitney, I love the, actionable takeaways. People, regular listeners, understand and know that that's one of the big things I'm all about. I love high-level thinking, but I also love actionable, practical tips and things that we could,

questions we can ask ourselves, things we can actually do immediately implement. And that leads me to my next question around implementation and execution. So I think as a whole, most people, most great leaders and learning leaders are really good, going and seeking out training, listening to keynote speeches, listening to U-Talk, and others. They'll seek those things out and they'll go to the training events. They'll even take notes. They'll say, oh, this is great. I really liked it.

However, then we leave the meeting. We leave the conference and we get back to our job or work, whatever it may be. and for the most part, we fail epically at implementing what we learned or what we thought we learned. And I know this might be a tough question, but I'm curious as to why. Why are we as a whole most people not great at implementing and then executing on what we learn when we go to a conference or we hear a great speech? It's a great question, and I think there's actually fairly easy answer to it. So if you think about this idea of being on a learning curve, remember how I said at the very bottom of the learning curve, you don't really feel like you know what you're doing.

Like when you ever start a new job, usually for about the first six months, or probably I'm guessing for your first 10 or 15 podcasts, you were kind of like, I'm not sure what I'm doing here. Yeah. Well, that's because you're at the bottom of the learning curve, and your brain has a been able to sort of program anything yet. So everything's new. You're doing lots of different things and all the pieces haven't been put together. And so whenever you're trying something new or you hear new information, it's not going to, nothing's going to immediately kick in.

And all the things that you've been doing for the last 10 or 15 or 20 years up until the point of going to that conference are hardwired. You can do them without even thinking. It's absolutely automatic. And so in order for you to jump, to a new curve when you get home from that conference, it means that you're going to have to put in probably three or six months of deliberate practice in order to kind of get to that sweet spots where you move into hypergrowth and something becomes a habit. And so what I would say and what I have really been trying to do in my own individual life is to listen to something that inspires me at least every morning.

It might be something religious. it might be an inspirational talk, whatever, something that just inspires your mind and opens up your thinking and your perspective. And as I'm doing that, I'll think about one thing that day that I could do differently that I wouldn't have done as a consequence of listening to that. And that really is helpful because if you think about it, okay, let me give you one more analogy. You know, we can think to ourselves, okay, I went to this conference and this is fantastic. But going to a conference is the equivalent of getting out your toothbrush, putting toothpaste on for seven days worth of brushing your teeth, and then brushing your teeth, and then thinking that's going to solve the problem for the next seven days.

It's just not. You have to put a little bit of toothpaste on every day in order for it to do its job. And so I would say it's the same with you come home from a conference one thing a day. If you do not take anything else away, commit to do one little thing and then refresh yourself every day with something inspirational that you listen to or you read. And then that to me is really the key to permanent and lasting change. These very small microstaps, that's how we affect real change, not in these. And that's disruptive, right?

I'm not necessarily a big fan of breakthrough innovations. I think they happen, but I think more often than not. In fact, almost always they happen with these micro steps that change the behavior at the low end of the curve. enough enough until we're able to hit that hypergrowth and actually be transformed in whatever habit we're trying to change. Yeah, it makes me think of two things. The compound effect, Darren Hardy's work where you lay brick by brick every single day and you're not going to build the house in one day.

It's constantly and consistently doing it. And then I had a great guest named Jeff Colvin who wrote an awesome book called Talent is overrated. Oh, yeah. The big focus on talented is overrated is the deliberate practice. And both of those words are extremely important. Deliberate practice. So whatever that may be, that you are consciously doing whatever it is.

So if you're consciously listening to something that's going to inspire you every single day, that's kind of the trigger to get it going, to lay that next brick, so to speak. So I think that is fantastic advice. I love it. Something that we all can do because it is so easy. I mean, so easy to get caught up into everything that we have to do every day. My dad calls it the crush of stuff.

We all have it. He said it is so easy for all of us to get caught up in the crush of stuff because everyone has it. And so it's important to remember that and to take a moment. So I think that's a big deal. That makes me think of something. I wasn't going to go here, but do you have, what is your specific, like, what's the first 60 minutes of your mornings look like when you wake up? That's a great question. So, I was thinking about something else you said about the talent is overrated about the deliberate practice.

I don't remember what it is. If I remember it, I'll come back to it. Every time you're talking, you jog other ideas. So in the morning, on my good days, right, so this doesn't happen every day. Sure, of course. What I do, oh, I remember what it was, that learning has. a cumulative and compounding effect. And so, again, that's back to the low end of the curve.

That's why at the beginning it doesn't look if you're accomplished anything. Back to this idea of talent is overrated. But if you do that deliberate practice, you build and it doubles and doubles and doubles until you move into hypergrowth. So that deliberate practice, the 10,000 hour rule, all of those apply to this idea of the S curve,

which is why talent is overrated because what really matters, I mean, talent matters some, but what really matters is like you said, the deliberate practice. Okay. Yeah, real quick. Yeah. You know, there's a great article.

God, the name's escaping me. But if you focus on getting 1% better every day, think about what you would be like in a year. So because that compounds. Right. If you're thinking about getting 1% better, so I think that's, that's, I'm picturing this in my mind of this little curve, so that we've been talking about that, so speak, where you're looking at how it happens. And there's a, I'll put the article in the show notes on learning leader.com.

so everybody can see what I'm talking about. If I could remember it, I'd say it, but I didn't know where we were going to go like normal here, Whitney. But it makes me think of that a great article. So getting back to it, I am curious about what people do in the morning because I have a specific morning routine. And I think big achievers that I've spoken with all seem to have something they do when they wake up. That's pretty specific, whether it's writing and reading and meditating or things like that. I'm curious to hear yours. Yeah.

So the first thing I do, like, right when I, I mean, my kids aren't young anymore, so our oldest is, or youngest is as freshman high school. So people with young children, this is tough to do. But the first thing I do is like right when I'm waking up, still in bed, I'll turn on my phone and I'll listen to like a 10 or 15 minute inspirational talk. In my case, it's a religious talk. And then when I finish that, I'll get to my computer and just jot down some notes and things and kind of journal from the day before of what I've learned. And then I'll actually pray slash meditate. think about what is that one thing that I need to do today, that I, in particular, to serve someone else and how can I reach out to them? And that, and then I can start working. And again, that's like on my good days, but I find that when I do that, my days are good. And so, and it really helps me have the perspective that I need as things come my way throughout the day, whether there are, you know, lots to do and it feels very stressful, or if there's a conversation that I have that's a bit discombobulating and I'm able to have the perspective to deal with that more with more equanimity. Yeah, like I said, I found that people seem to all have a routine or something to do

on their good days. Like I said, it's not every, not every day. And it's just, it's interesting to me. What do you do in the morning? So I get up and I write in something called the five-minute journal. Have you heard of it? Okay. It talks about, you can look it up on Google with a five-minute journal. it's about putting down things that you're grateful for and then also listing what a great day would be. And then at the end of the day, you're going to write, did you accomplish those things that were to make your day great? So you're going to show some gratitude. So, you know, I'm thankful for these three things. Here are three things that will make today great if I accomplish them.

And then at the end of the day, you're going to, it's very quick. It's five minutes. And at the end, you're going to say, did I accomplish those things? And to me, it really bothers me. me if I get to the end of the day and I don't accomplish those three things. They're never, they're never crazy things. Like today, it was have a fantastic conversation with Whitney Johnson was one of my three things today that I wrote this morning. It sounds like for me, I'm happy that that's happening. So, but that's, that's just very simple. Anybody can do it.

It doesn't take much time, but it's the very first thing. I get up after brushing my teeth, those normal things. I am, and it's, it typically I get up very early. and then I write and then I stretch and then I work out. And that to me is what makes me feel like I'm getting my day started. And I'm always listening to some sort of a podcast typically. So that's the inspiration I get is from listening to others who are speaking with interesting and inspiring people. That's part of the reason why I got into podcasting. What are one or two of your favorite podcasts that you listen to?

So I really like Brian Coppelman has a podcast called The Moment. He's an interesting guy who actually works in the film business, writes movies, but he's a phenomenal interviewer. I just love the way he thinks. I love how curious he is. I love the questions he asked because he's able to get deep really quickly. Tim Ferriss, another guy who I listen to Tim quite often. I think Tim is another really good interviewer. He has access to a lot of big time achievers.

So this is another one that I seem to go back to quite a bit. And then Lewis Howes is another guy who has a similar background to me, played football growing up, played in the arena football league, which I did as well. And so after college, so he has another interesting take on it. So there's, I probably listen to 10 or 15, but those are three of the ones that I come back to the most. So I have to ask you, are there any women that you listen to? I'm curious. Shailene Johnson is a really good one. I've spoken with Natalie Jill, who's also in the fitness industry.

So there's some, you know, I look for it depends on, I'm not really picky when it comes to, like, I don't seek any specific type out, whatever just kind of pops is where I'll go. Yeah, so, but that's interesting. Do you have any you could recommend? You know what? I honestly, I have not been a big podcast listener. And so what's been fascinating for me is over the last couple of weeks. And as I've been working on this book, I've realized that podcasts are a really big thing. And so I'm like, oh, podcasts must be on the sweet spot of that S curve because, you know, a year ago, there weren't that many of them, at least in my perception.

And now podcasts are everywhere. So I'm like, oh, on that S curve, it's on that steep part where it's growing exponentially. So I find myself really curious. That's why I was asking you who you listen to. so that I could like learn. There's a lot. I mention them quite often because they inspire me. And I'm always, you know, and that's one of the neat things about doing this is I get to reach out to people like you.

And we can we can have these great conversations and it be recorded. And without the podcast, you know, I'd be like, hey, Whitney, can I call you? Like, it's just not the same, you know? Yeah. So it's just better this way where it's not extremely formal, but it's still formal enough to where, you know, we're going to record it. And it's going to be out there. and anybody can listen to it at any time. So that's why, to me, it's just really fun.

But this has been just fantastic, Whitney. I know I want to be respectful of your time. So I just have just one more question. And so that's around the whole purpose of this show. So being a learning leader to me is about constantly striving to improve, to being massively curious and asking why, asking what if I did it the opposite? What if we did it this way?

To really, to go completely against people who say, well, we've always done it this way. So this is how we're going to do it. You know, that's like the biggest pet peeve of my life when I hear that statement. So that's the whole purpose behind this and to live it, to do it, to speak to others who are doing those things. So I'd like to ask you, when you hear the phrase learning leader, what's the very first thing that pops into your mind? It could be a person. It could be a definition. It could be a phrase.

What is it when you hear that phrase learning leader? Well, it's probably because I'm drinking my own Kool-Aid, but I would say I immediately thought of personal disruption because I thought of this idea of driving corporate innovation and how we really want innovation and we talk about being agents of disruption. But the fact is that we affect the most change when we're subject of disruption when we are willing to disrupt ourselves. And I think learning takes lots of different forms. You can be curious about the world and why, you know, how this watch or how this computer works. And that's one form of curiosity that has really allowed the world to make amazing technological strides. For me, a learning leader is a person who's continually introspective and asking, why am I doing this? This is the way I've always done this.

This is the way I've always behaved. These are the people I've always interacted with. but is this the right way to do this? Is this the right way to react to this? Is this the right way to respond to this? And so for me, a learning leader, and if I were to consider myself a learning leader, I would hope that I would be continually introspective, continually figuring out how to move from stuck to unstuck, because I believe that if I can disrupt myself as an individual, then that will have a ripple effect to allow disruption and learning to take place inside of my my inner circle inside of the corporations or organizations of which I'm a part and then

the broader community. So that's how I would define it. Wow. Really nice. Thank you. I appreciate you answering that. Where can everyone go to find you online? Well, the first place, first of all, thank you for asking. The first place is whitneyjohnson.com standard spelling like Whitney Houston, but with the Johnson on the end, my Twitter handle, but I can't sing like she can, Unfortunately. My Twitter handle is Johnson Whitney. That's probably my social, you know, social world of preference. And then my book you can find on Amazon, it's disrupt yourself, putting the power of disruptive innovation to work. So those are probably the easiest places to find me. Oh, and my email address, Whitney at Whitneyjohnson.com. Perfect. Wow. I got email. That's even better so we can feel free to reach out. Everyone, I would urge you to check. If you don't already know Whitney, if you're not. not already a fan of a version. I know you will be after reading what she has to say. It's really impressive and fascinated by this. And I really appreciate you being here, Whitney. And thank you so

much. And I'd love to continue this dialogue as we both progress on our journeys. I would too. Thank you very much for having me, Ryan. All right. Thanks. Talk soon. This episode of the Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.