The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 064: Kevin Lavelle – CEO of Mizzen+Main: Intellectual Curiosity Leads To Growing 500%

Episode Date: October 19, 2015

Episode 064: Kevin Lavelle – CEO of Mizzen+Main: Intellectual Curiosity Leads To Growing 500% Kevin Lavelle is an incredibly intelligent leader.  He truly understands the importance of possessing three qualities as a leader: An overwhelming amount of optimism, an intellectual curiosity, and persistence.  We are extremely fortunate to have Kevin share his knowledge with us, the loyal listeners of The Learning Leader Show.  Kevin Lavelle is an American entrepreneur and business executive. He is the founder of Mizzen+Main, a men's clothing brand where he serves as the company's CEO. Kevin was named to the 40 Under 40 list by Dallas Business Journal in 2013. He was also named to Men's Fitness list of Game Changers in 2014.  Investors in the company, which makes its products in the United States, include Zappos founder Tony Hsieh's Vegas Tech Fund and Navy SEAL Marcus Lutrell.  They have grown 500% year over year! And most recently, he has partnered with NFL star JJ Watt on an endorsement deal that gives JJ an equity stake in the business.  Episode 064: Kevin Lavelle – CEO of Mizzen+Main: Intellectual Curiosity Leads To Growing 500% Subscribe on iTunes  or Stitcher Radio The Learning Leader Show “I want to build the next great American brand.” – Kevin Lavelle Some Questions I Ask: What are the common characteristics of high achievers? What is unique about Mizzen+Main? How did you initially fund your company? What effect did it have on your brand when you advertised on a podcast? (Tim Ferriss) What do you say to critics who claim you should make your product outside of America? Take us into your pitch meetings… What specifically did it sound like in those meetings? What was it like negotiating with JJ Watt? Why is the name Mizzen+Main?   In This Episode, You Will Learn: The importance of: Optimism, curiosity, & persistence  Pitch meetings (to investors) and the specific verbiage used in them The power of advertising on a podcast Working with JJ Watt Getting started… Specifically starting to sell immediately (prior to quitting day job) Mentors and how they’ve helped The importance of taking a complicated message and making it clear “The best business decision for us is to make our products in America.” – Kevin Lavelle Continue Learning: Go To Kevin’s website: com Read the article Kevin wrote about the power of advertising on a podcast: com/@kevinslavelle Follow Kevin on Twitter: @kevinslavelle You may also like these episodes: Episode 001: How To Become A Master Connector With Jayson Gaignard From MasterMind Talks Episode 034: Jimmy Hatch – Shot While Searching For Bowe Bergdahl And Sky Diving With Gabby Giffords Episode 004: How Todd Wagner (and Mark Cuban) Sold Broadcast.com To Yahoo! For $5.7 Billion Episode 010: Shane Snow – How To Accelerate Success Using Smart Cuts Did you enjoy the podcast? This was a jam packed episode full of great content.  Kevin is leader who is constantly learning in order to help us all live a better life. Who do you know that needs to hear this?  Send them to The Learning Leader Show! Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell Biography Kevin Lavelle is an American entrepreneur and business executive. He is the founder of Mizzen+Main, a men's clothing brand where he serves as the company's CEO. Kevin was named to the 40 Under 40 list by Dallas Business Journal in 2013. He was also named to Men's Fitness list of Game Changers in 2014.  Investors in the company, which makes its products in the United States, include Zappos founder Tony Hsieh's Vegas Tech Fund and Navy SEAL Marcus Lutrell.  And most recently, he has partnered with NFL star JJ Watt on an endorsement deal that gives JJ an equity stake in the business.

A true sense of optimism and possibility that you can defy the odds, you can take on the industries that you take on, that you can not worry about the competitors that might take you down or the odds that are stacked against you. Another is a sense of intellectual curiosity. You can be a phenomenal coder or designer or product person, but if you don't have the interest to engage all forms of what it takes to succeed from the marketing and creative side to the accounting and finance side to the supply chain side. You can only go so far. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders.

Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to the learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk and I'm extremely excited about tonight's featured leader. But first, I wanted to read an email that I just received. It was actually sent to my dad by a guy by the name of Joe Ryan. And here's what Joe said. He said, would you please share this email with Ryan, regardless of whether he has time to

reply or not, I want him to know that his work is changing lives. I sincerely believe that in just one short month, I have become a better husband, father, employee, and person. I believe that my career trajectory has changed dramatically and my potential is limitless. Joe, thank you very much for sending that email. It means a lot to me. It inspires me so much to hear from you, the listeners of the Learning Leader Show that it's had this type of an effect on you. And if you feel similar, please don't hesitate to send me a note. Go to learningleader.com and send me a note to my contact form there.

All right, on to tonight's episode. It's with Kevin Lavelle. Kevin is the founder of Mizzen and Maine, a men's clothing brand where he serves as the company's CEO. He was named to the 40 under 40 list by Dallas Business Journal in 2013. He was also named to Men's Fitness List of Game Changers in 2014. He has early investments from Zappo CEO Tony Shea's Vegas Tech Fund, as well as Navy SEAL Marcus LaTrell from the loan survivor. He also recently just partnered with JJ Watt of the Houston Texans to help grow Mizzen and Maine.

Incredible stories. So a couple things we got into tonight. I asked him to take me through what it's like to be in the room when he pitches investors. A fascinating part. You'll find that Kevin is an extremely intelligent guy and a deep thinker, very curious guy. I love those aspects of them. Also, the power of buying ad time on a podcast. Obviously, this part of the conversation meant a lot to me.

I'm a firm believer that marketing through podcasting is on the rise and it's huge. And this is one of the biggest ways that Kevin has been able to bring exposure to Miz and Maine. We talked about that. And then the process of simply getting started. Kevin started this business while he had a full-time job. He did this on his nights and weekends. He packed and shipped product himself. He sold it prior to quitting his job and doing this full-time. And I think a lot of people will find this part really interesting. And Kevin dives deep there. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm extremely excited to share this talk with Kevin Lavelle. All right, Kevin, extremely excited to have you here on The Learning Leaders Show. And I got a quick

question to get us started, and it's around high achievers, people who have done big things in their lives, especially ones who have done it at a young age like yourself. So you've been fortunate to spend a lot of time around other really high achievers. In fact, I see you just signed a deal with J.J. Watt to work with him, but among other things, you've been around people who have done some big things. What are some of the common characteristics you see that those high achievers all seem to share. To me, and I'll start off by saying thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts and connect to your listeners.

Absolutely. To me, there are a common set of characteristics in all entrepreneurs, especially younger entrepreneurs, but the ones that seem to resonate the best with me and I think are why I've been able to have the early success that we've had. We got a long way to go, but we've had a lot of early success. is a true sense of optimism and possibility that you can defy the odds, you can take on the industries that you take on, that you can not worry about the competitors that might take you down or the odds that are stacked against you. And while you may be aware of those things or think

about them from time to time, they don't deter you from pushing on. Another is a sense of intellectual curiosity. You can be a phenomenal coder or designer or product person, but if you don't have the interest to engage all forms of what it takes to succeed from the marketing and creative side to the accounting and finance side, to the supply chain side, you can only go so far. And you have to have an interest in all areas of the business or, you better find someone to come in as your partner really quickly who does as well. And then I think the last thing would just be this sense of persistence and commitment.

At the end of the day, every day, you can know that you have a long way to go, even if you've already started to see success or have been tremendously successful or have had a string of a couple of the worst months imaginable. it is absolutely a very, very long journey and not in any way, shape, or form about one day versus the next. It's about all the days strung together. So keeping that sense of optimism throughout that long journey tying together the first and last things, those are absolutely critical to see any success.

I love it. Optimism, curiosity. If you go to my website, learning leader.com, you'll see the big headline that says, are you massively curious? That's one of my favorite characteristics in any, any person that I want to spend time around is the fact that they're, they're always thinking why. They're thinking of different and better ways to potentially get something done. But having that curiosity to always be thinking. I mean, that sounds like a weird thing to say, but to me it means so much when I meet someone. So let's take it a step back now, Kevin. Let's talk about you and the path

that you're on and really how you've gotten this point. So for the people who haven't heard of you and maybe the few who haven't heard of Mizna and Maine yet, let's talk a little bit about what you're currently doing as well as how you've gotten to this point. Absolutely. So I started Mizan and Maine a little over three years ago to bring advanced performance fabrics to traditional menswear. The first step in that was bringing a moisture wicking, wrinkle-free, four-way stretch fabric to a men's dress shirt. and that came from an idea about a decade ago that stayed with me for a long time, and that was the evolution of performance polos,

where at first they were deemed almost unacceptable in a very traditional world in country clubs and golf courses, and slowly they became more and more acceptable to a point that they ended up becoming mainstream, and why wouldn't you wear a performance polo in the golf course? It's hot outside, and they actually look great. why couldn't that same evolution happen in men's dress shirts? What do guys wear even more than polos? And that's dress shirts.

So the idea stayed with me for a long time. And it was about four years ago, a little more than four years ago, that I decided that I needed to give it a shot. So it spent about a year in product development, launched in July of 2012 with the first dress shirt. And the company has grown tremendously since then. We're about 4 to 500% growth year on year. Now we do Henleys, Polos.

We're about to release performance chinos in a few weeks and denim, and will continue into other product categories across the menswear spectrum. We're about 80% online and about 20% wholesale. So one of the great things about being able to find us in person or online is if you want to buy it from your local store, that's great. But if there's not a store nearby, you can always get us online. And we do not discount our product ever. And so you'll always find pricing consistency wherever you go and not have to worry about signing up for the right newsletter at the right time or playing the pricing manipulation game.

And our customers have really come to appreciate that. And that's just something we had to stick to from the beginning as an American-made product. We couldn't go down that pricing manipulation game because once that starts, it never stops. And we just feel like we've got a fair price where we can grow our business and pay American workers to make it and keep going and hopefully hire more and more people along the way. And so you've also been funded by Zappos founder Tony Shays Vegas Tech Fund. as well as Marcus LaTrell, the famous Navy SEAL, among other people. Talk to me a little bit about that process, the funding process.

I think that's a fascinating process for people to say, you know, go from idea to being funded to realization and to now where you are growing at 4 to 500 percent. Yeah, absolutely. It was a tremendously long journey before we, you know, caught the eye of some of the investors that we have now. And it was about a year of product development before I launched, and that was just funding those initiatives and development aspects myself and launched the company and self-funded for a while with money I'd saved up and my wife was working her own full-time job in addition to helping me

with everything that she could and packing and shipping at night. Worked out of my house for two years, didn't pay myself for a very, very long time and packed and shipped every single box myself, answered every customer support email. All of that is what it takes to get going and that grind is so important early on, especially to understand your business as you grow and the people and needs that you have. Raised a little bit of kind of friends and family seed money in 2013, and that was to help push us a little bit to the next level. And then in the summer of 2014, we raised a million dollar equity round and had some great

people come on board there as well. And that really, I think the perception is, I love Shark Tank. I think it's great for the country and teaches people a lot about. entrepreneurship and growing business, but a lot of people assume, well, I just have this idea and I'll go on Shark Tank or I'll go to an investor and they'll get money and there will go. And it is anything but that. And so it takes a long time of development and laying the groundwork before you can consider what would it take to grow this business.

And then you've got to put yourself out there into your network and pitch people that you don't know and go through that process, which is a grueling one. even if you're doing really well, it's hard to put yourself out there and get asked all those tough questions, but that'll help you as you grow as well. So I would love to hear it, like exactly how it goes. And I know you can't simulate it like the entire meeting, but let's say you're in front of a, I don't know, a Markless LaTrell or somebody like him. And you're saying, you know, you want to pitch what you have and you're trying to, you're selling what you have to get funded. What does that sound like?

Like if we could hear, not verbatim, but, you know, take us into the room. I'd love for the listeners to be able to hear what that sounds like. In terms of how a pitch. Yes, exactly. Yeah. At the end of the day, each pitch ends up being a little unique. There are consistent themes about how you share your story and how you got there and where you see things going. But different investors have different careabouts and some.

Some couldn't care less about the financials, and they just want to, obviously they're a fundamental part of it, but they just want to know that you are the right person to shepherd the company and that you have what it takes to make the tough decisions and see to it that everything is tended to because any angel-level investment is always a bet on the founder and the long-term vision, more so than the financial engineering that happens with larger corporations. And so those themes can be consistent, but each investor will present you with their own set of biases and backgrounds and things that are important to them. But the general structure is, depending on how much they know about you already, just an introduction of the company at a high level, kind of hitting, as I did in the early parts, here are a few of the main things that set us apart from anything else you might be looking at. the distribution channels, the history, the product, the evolution, along with where are you going?

And that usually takes anywhere from three to five minutes. And at that point, I generally try to let them steer what they are most interested in hearing because I don't want to bore them to death. And I also want to make sure that whatever their concerns are, they're addressed. I will give them all the relevant pieces of information throughout our meeting. at the end of it, something still hasn't come up, then I'll steer it back there and say, just want to make sure you understand this, or here's how this has happened, or here's how we plan on addressing this. And then at the end, it usually comes down to a, let me think about

it and we'll be in touch. There have been a few where it's, you know, wish you the best, this just really isn't for me. Those are never fun, but that's the reality of it. Just like a sales call, You need to find 20 prospects, contact 10 to 15 of them. You get further conversations with five to six of them and you might close one or two of them. And that's just the nature of selling and fundraising is inherently selling. Yeah. I was thinking that. I've read somewhere that you said you've heard the word no, and this is a little bit older article, so it's probably more.

You've heard the word no at least 500 times. So you're not, you can't fear that rejection or temporary failure. failures. Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, at the end of the day, you're, you've got to put yourself out there many, many, many times over in order to get any progress. And for me, and this was the, I did a TEDx talk a couple years ago here in Dallas. It was no means I'm pushing hard enough. If I don't hear no, then I'm probably not pressuring our supply, our team, our development, our investors, whatever that might be, to put forth everything that could be put forth. And if you get to those nose, you either need to power right through it or course correct

and keep moving forward. It doesn't mean that you should stop what you're doing. It means you might need to change how you're doing it. It might mean that you need to change your expectations of where the next steps and successes come from. But if you're just cruising along and there's never any strife or no. or negativity, then you're probably just coasting and you will not ever succeed in that manner. Absolutely.

I completely agree. And so I want to tell you a little bit about how I found out about you guys and your products. So two ways. One, I was very fortunate to play around a golf with a guy named Brian Hartline, who used to play for the Miami Dolphins and now for the Cleveland Browns, formerly in Ohio State Buckeye. And he talked about his work with you guys. I know he was part of some marketing and some publications for you. And then also, even more so, you wrote an article on Medium.com called the Tim Ferriss Effect podcast edition and where you discussed how you decided to invest in, I guess, essentially, your marketing of the brand. And you've taken a full page ad in the New York Times right around Christmas time.

There's Esquire magazine. You took a color photo ad in that as well, which I know both of those are pricey. then you also paid Tim Ferriss for a brief mention at the beginning of his podcast. Talk to me a little bit about what you learned through that process. And for me, as a podcaster, obviously, I absolutely loved reading this article and it really opened my eyes. Yeah, happy to share that. The success that we've seen with working with Tim Ferriss has been unlike anything

else across the board from a New York Times press coverage in the week before Christmas to taking out a full page ad with a pro football player wearing our product. And I think it comes down to the advertising and marketing world has changed so dramatically in the last few years in terms of people's attention and how to capture that attention and tell a story that when you can find where your core audience live, and what they care about and speak to them in that arena and on that level, it changes everything about your interaction with them. And so you may get eyeballs on whatever you do,

but if they're not engaged or open to the cell, then there's almost zero expectation of results. And so there are, you know, there's a time and a place for press and advertising in all forms, but you need to make sure it aligns with your company and how you connect with customers and how you are able to not just connect to them, but convert them and bring them on board. And so it was the biggest gamble I'd ever taken to put that ad in Esquire and it failed miserably. And then it was an even bigger gamble, especially after the last failure in Esquire,

to advertise on a podcast. As we were talking before we kicked up, I will not listen to podcasts for two months, and then I'll binge because I love the format and I love the connections and interviews and everything. And so all of a sudden to throw into this new medium, which very few people know anything about in terms of the advertising world, and I think most ad agencies would steer you away from it, to me, turned out to be the single best thing that we have done for our business since starting. it absolutely changed the trajectory of what we were doing and very, very thrilled with the results and we've continued to work with Tim since then. Yeah, it's a great article too. I'll put it in the show notes on learningleader.com that you wrote for Medium to talk about the effect that it's had.

And I'll say personally, you know, I listen to Tim's show. And so when he, the way he read the ad, or he didn't even read it, I think he just said what he truly thought. So he was, it wasn't just an ad read. It was a true endorsement meant a lot to me. And I was like, you know what? I've heard about this, but I think I need to finally try this stuff out. And then once you try it out, you're completely hooked.

And you're like, I don't want to wear anything else. And so that's what I think your guys is, and that's a pretty cool position to be in, is as soon as somebody just tries the actual product on, it's so comfortable. But yeah, it still looks like you're in your business. shirt, yet it feels like my Nike shirts that I work out in. Obviously, it's like, wow, this is, why hasn't somebody done this before? And now you've done it. It's pretty incredible. Thank you. Thank you. It's been, it's been an amazing experience. And we're just getting started. Yeah, I know. That's the thing because I think we're still at the very beginning.

You're still, you're growing at these huge rates. I mean, what is, not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but what is your plan? I mean, I can tell that you seem to. to have that curiosity, a really intelligent thinker. What is your plan over the next two, three, four, five, ten years for Miznan and Maine? I want to build the next great American brand. I want us to be the household name that people think about when it comes to commitment to building a business the right way and everything that it means to be the most desirable, respected brand out there. And that extends far beyond our dress shirts. It is. something that we can go cross category and continue to introduce new and innovative products

made here at home and with a commitment to giving back to our veteran community and hiring as many people as possible and changing people's perceptions of what is possible and what makes sense in the world of fabric and innovation and their day-to-day lives. One of the things I'm guessing you get pushed back on, I've heard you talk about this, is around the fact that you want everything made in America. And especially people, I watch Shark Tank. And so whenever somebody goes in there and they're all about making their product, whatever their product is in America, like all the sharks are like,

no, no, no, you're just giving away money by doing that. You've got to ship it overseas to make it. And you're adamant that you don't want to do that. Talk to me a little bit more about your reasoning and then how you've handled, how you've handled it when investors or other people have said, hey, man, you've got to get this made overseas. You'd save so much money. Yeah.

So there are always there are always tradeoffs to every business decision. And I know that I could save money by moving overseas. It also adds significant level of complexity to your business and can bring on a huge number of problems from a business. from a business perspective, I can say without a doubt, it is the best possible thing for us because of how quickly we're moving and we cannot keep product in stock. We are growing faster than we can even fathom at this point. And producing overseas takes a very long time, as I said, a lot of complexity and a lot of misses.

One of the things that a lot of people don't understand about overseas production is anytime you manufacture, something overseas, you're always going to have a significantly higher, I'll call it a problem rate or a misrate where they put the sleeves on backwards or they didn't include a critical component or they cut corner somewhere because they're just about volume and not necessarily about quality. And unless you control every component of that factory yourself as a company, you take a lot of risks. And so without a doubt, it is the best business decision for who we are. As we grow, yes, we may be able to find economies of sale and cost advantages overseas, but I want who we are as a company to resonate throughout all of our decisions. And it's a part of who we are,

it's a part of our DNA to be here, to be American made. And so it adds more than just the dollars and cents to the bottom line. It helps us focus on and be more than just a product, more than just say, let's just move more shirts and answer more customer service tickets. It gives us a sense of purpose and something more. Now, at the end of the day, if you don't make money, if you don't make money, then all of it is for naught. And one of the things that the sharks have said on a number of occasions to the people who are doing American-made businesses is if you go out of business, you can't hire

anyone. And there are some things that just don't make sense to make here anymore. whether it is based on the factory, the technical know-how, or the economies of scale that are just not possible here in the United States anymore. I will say one of the things that we do is we buy, we source our buttons from overseas because people can't, no one can make enough buttons for us here in the United States. It's not a question of, I mean, buttons are a fraction of a penny, but let's say it's not a question of, I can buy this many buttons for $5 overseas, but it's $7 here. I need to buy it overseas because I can save $2 on that batch of buttons. That's not it at all. It's not really possible to do so here.

Now, we may grow to such a scale that we can end up insourcing or producing our own, but we need to get to a certain scale and get over the next couple of years before that's even possible. So, you know, sometimes the sharks, the guy will be selling his product for $50, and he makes it here in the U.S. and it costs $35 to make. you can't run a business that way unless you're a grocery store and you only need a one to two percent profit margin. At the end of his year, he's going to have lost so much money that he won't be able to employ anyone.

So there are certain things that you just need to take into consideration around, is it even possible to do so? And you can't bend the cost curve of the fact that a $15 profit margin on a $50 product, you'll end up going out of business because there are other things it takes to run the business from the delivery and distribution to the people to the accounting to the back end systems. And if you end up losing money on every product, you will go out of business unless you're Amazon and then you just do it for 20 years and somehow find a way to stay in business after all that time.

So one of the things I think, you know, I get emails from listeners about this so I wanted to bring it up with you. So I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you were starting your work on Mizz and Maine while still employed with a regular, like, 9 to 5-ish type of a job. Is that accurate? Yes. I was playing around with the idea for a long time before I started. Right. Okay.

So I think there's a lot of people out there like that. They have some sort of an idea, but they also have a spouse, kids, and a mortgage and things like that. And but, but so I'd love to hear from you, a guy who has, who has made this transition to where you, you had a, uh, what I assume was a probably a pretty good job, but you also had a vision for something that you, you wanted to do. So what was the process like? And really, I guess I'm asking if you could give advice to a 35-year-old mom of two who has a spouse and a mortgage but has a great idea. And I don't know what the great idea is. It doesn't matter. But they have a great idea.

And they're thinking about it. They've even kind of got into it a little bit, nights and weekends type work. And they're thinking like, well, how did Kevin do it? How is he able to make this happen? Or could that relate to me at all? So I'm curious if you could, what advice you'd give to that list? or that person. Yeah, absolutely.

I think the simplest response I can give would be go ahead and start selling your product in some capacity and get it out there and see if people will actually pay you for that product. See if with what you're doing, whether it's a product or service, will people actually turn over their hard-earned dollars to you for whatever you? you're selling. And it sounds very simple, but a lot of people just think that they need to go all in to make it work in any capacity. And if they don't, then they shouldn't ever do anything. Try to actually put it out there. Try to actually get people to engage with you on a business perspective before you throw everything to the side, especially if you have the mortgage,

the family, all of those commitments. Because if you can't get your friends and family and your first-degree connections to buy your product from you in any capacity, then I would think real hard about how you're going to get people you don't know to do it. And the second part would be understand very, to the highest level of detail, what your personal runway is if you step away. So if you step away and your monthly expenses are $5,000 a month for the mortgage, the, you know, the taxes, the cars, the just basics for you to get by without living, you know, the fun life, then how much do you have saved up before you have to start bringing things in and don't make a decision about jumping out and away from what will help you just keep a roof over your head

without knowing exactly how long you have. And those two steps to me, if you can't do that, then you definitely shouldn't start a business on your own. But if you can, then ask yourself what's stopping you. And if it's fear or an unknown, then those other two, the things that you've just addressed, will answer those very directly for you. And if you see the runway that you have

and you've seen some success and trying it on your own and you still can't do it, that's okay. Some people just don't have the stomach or the risk tolerance to jump out fully on their own. And that's not a bad thing. Everyone has their specialty and where they really feel like they can build a life. And not everyone has to start their own business. I think the Shark Tank effect has made it to where everyone feels like if they're not doing their own business, then they're not doing something. And that's not the case in any capacity. There are so many great ways that you can build a future in a life, even within a corporation.

You can lead a new initiative. You can start up a new directive. You can be the best boss or supervisor. There are so many ways that you can make an impact and build your future that do not involve stepping out and building something on your own from the ground up. That is fantastic advice, Kevin. I really appreciate it. One other thing I want to touch on here real quick is that you just partnered with J.J. Watt as kind of an endorser, and I believe I read that he got a little bit of stake in the company. Could you talk more about that partnership, and you arguably got one of the biggest names in all of athletics to,

you see him taking his pictures on private planes wearing Mismanen shirts and talking about it in a real positive light? How do that all come about? We have now about 200 professional athletes as customers, and that has come from first-degree connections, second-degree connections, kind of pushing myself out there, putting myself out there, and the professional athlete world, I'll say, has really embraced our product because it's, I mean, these guys live in performance fabrics on a daily basis,

and so they love the fit and the feel of our shirts, not to mention the consistency of being able to get a really great product that makes them feel and look as great as they do for $125. These guys are regularly pitched and spend a great deal more than that on custom clothes, and ours fit these guys off the rack. So they like that. It's been a great thing to see how much, they've come to love our product.

And from the beginning, we had to say, you know, we really can't just give you these products. We'd get agents or athletes that would say, you know, send me five shirts and I'll send out a tweet. And that doesn't move the needle for us as a business. And so I just have to respectfully turn those requests down, which is quite hard. But if I give some people shirts and not others, where does that end up leading me in terms of, you know, who am I working with and not working with? I may burn some bridges by doing that, and so we've just sort of said, we're sorry, we can't. We do have a VIP concierge who gets these guys whatever they need

and sometimes gets it to them ahead of the product releases because we do sell out of things very quickly. And so they get treated very well internally, but it's not the discount game, and that's something that we've done across the board, is not play the discount or a freebie game. And people know us, know where we stand, and appreciate that.

So coming back to JJ, we know a lot of athletes now and a lot of agents and started talking with his team about six or seven months ago about possibly working together and went back and forth for a while and he tried the product out and loved it. And then it came down to just trying to fit into his schedule because the man is not only the hardest working athlete, but he's become a sensation, a celebrity in his own right. And so trying to fit him in, trying to fit us into his schedule was tough. So that took a while and ended up sitting down a couple months ago. And I think he asked arguably the hardest and most detailed questions of any investor.

And it was really great to see how much he looks after his own personal brand and who he aligns himself with. And that meant a lot to me that he cared that much. A few weeks later, we said, all right, let's do the deal. And then, you know, the lawyers and paperwork starts. And so that took a little while and announced the deal with Darren Ravelle on ESPN a couple weeks ago and just getting started. Really, it was we announced that we were working together this year. And once football season starts, he's all business.

And now we are working on some great new initiatives and things for 2016. What were some of those questions that were asked in the meeting? It was about how we handle our social media, how we handle working with customers and our supply chain, and what are we going to do when these types of things happen and what about these contingencies? He did not ask to drill down into every level of our balance sheet and cash flow statement. He wanted to know the nuances of what it meant to be. you know, what our company means to us and how we will conduct ourselves. And that was a really fun conversation to be able to have.

Interesting. Was there an entourage of people or just him and like a business manager? I'm curious about like what these rooms look like. Yeah. So we met out at the CAA offices in Hollywood. And it was he and his agent, who I've spent a lot of time with. And there were also some other things that his team was working on. And so he had one of his team there that helps support his agent.

And then given what Mizan and Maine is doing in our growing relationship with CIA, there were two other agents from the baseball and football departments because they were just wanted to be there to participate in the conversation because there are some other initiatives that we're working on with CIA. Really cool. I like to hear the inside kind of pull back the curtain on how all that gets done. Why the name Mizan and Maine? It's a great question.

Maine and the Mizan are two of the sails on a sailboat. And for us, it's an homage to that classic East Coast lifestyle, the little bit more traditional, a little bit dressier, a little bit fancier. Everyone has those iconic images of JFK on the back of the sailboat. And we wanted, with as advanced and innovative as our fabrics and garments are, we want people to still place that in the context of a traditional, refined lifestyle. And so that was a great way to bridge that. And that along with sales capture the power of the wind and propel you forward. And our shirts keep you a hell of a lot cooler than anything else out there and power you, if I can use a bad pun, to achieve your best.

That's the squishy marketing stuff that is a lot of fun and sometimes a little over the top. But it was all of those things together. And the minute our creative director who helped me formulate a lot of the initial brand assets came to me with that name, I just knew that's it. That's our name. Interesting. Okay. I was thinking of like the whole process of how that comes together.

That's just I think that those things are fascinating too. Like, you know, when you're getting together, trying to create what's going to be our name forever. You know, like there's a lot going on there. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot of thought, a lot of thought that goes in that and have really, really enjoyed the reception that we've had. Nice. So, Kevin, I really appreciate you being here.

You've been absolutely fantastic, and I'd love to obviously continue talking as we both progress. But I got one more question for you, and that's in regards to the whole purpose behind this show. It's called The Learning Leader Show. And obviously, it's all about the fact that I am intensely curious to learn from leaders who are thinkers, who are curious, who are inspiring, who are creative, who do all these things that can help us in our journey as learner. And you obviously fit in that category. I love, I can just already tell I love the way that you just think about things and it's intentional. And that's, that inspires me.

So I'm curious though when you hear the phrase learning leader, what is the very first thing that pops into your mind? Is it a person? Is it a phrase that is a definition? What is it when you hear that phrase? I think ultimately for me, I would come to the mentors that have been in my life, you know, starting with my parents that helped shape my worldview and drive. to some of the individuals who are always a phone call away to offer me advice on one of the many issues or questions that come up on a day-to-day basis of running a business, to the people who give their time back to the nonprofit world and help move those forward sitting on boards and giving of their time and experience. Money, of course, is always involved in the nonprofit world and investing in all of those things.

but it's the collective wisdom of those who have achieved before us that comes to mind for me. And got some mentors and friends that have done a lot to help get me to where I am now, and thus our company and all 15 people that are now a part of what we're building. And I hope one day to be able to do the same. And that's why when you reached out, I was thrilled and honored to be able to be a part of this, because I'm very excited to be able to lend a little bit of my experience so far, because though I don't have decades worth of success under my belt, we've got some good things that have happened.

And if there are other entrepreneurs or would-be entrepreneurs that are listening, my tips and tricks, take them for what they're worth, but hopefully we'll help push you guys to the next level. And feel free to reach out on Twitter. It's Kevin S. Lavelle or Mizan and Maine, and happy to touch base and help where I can. Perfect. You already hit up where they should find you online.

So mizzenameen.maine.com or just hit you up on Twitter is the best place to find you guys. Absolutely. Perfect. Okay. Well, Kevin, again, thank you so much for being here. You added so much value to this show. I'm just extremely appreciative. And I look forward to, like I said, continue talking as we both progress, man.

Absolutely. Thank you again. Thanks. All right. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again and we'll see you next time on the Learning Leader Show.