The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 068: Joey Coleman – What Is Your Personal Brand?

Starting point is 00:00:00 There is no investment you can make that will have a better return than investing in yourself. There's none. Stock market, private equity placements, you know, cool, fast tech companies, none of them. None of them come even close because that money, you don't control. An investment in yourself, you're in control. You're in control of where you're making that investment. you're in control of how much you apply that investment. Are leaders born or are they made?

Starting point is 00:00:35 Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk, and I've been looking forward to this conversation for a quite some time now. It's with award-winning keynote speaker, Joey Coleman. And he speaks on the topics around creating remarkable customer experiences, delivering world-class customer service,

Starting point is 00:01:24 as well as building and honing your personal brand. And that was the primary topic of our conversation tonight. You know, Joey's become a friend of mine. I met him through Jason Gainard, who was the guest featured leader for episode zero-zero one here on the learning leader. So yes, the very first episode that I recorded. And so I met Joey through him. And I also went to a workshop a couple weeks ago that Jason put together where Joey was the leader, the one who was providing all of the content. He was presenting, speaking, engaging the room.

Starting point is 00:01:57 And it was an incredible room of 35 dynamic learning leaders. And Joey was able to engage us, get a ton out of us, as well as present world-class material. I absolutely loved it. It was the best two and a half day workshop I've ever been to in my life. And so I wanted to follow that up with a great conversation and get it all on tape so you guys could hear it here on the Learning Leader Show. A couple of the things we got into tonight. We discussed your personal brand. What does that even mean and how do you define it?

Starting point is 00:02:28 We talked a lot about that here tonight, as well as raising the level of your peer group and the drastic measures that Joey took earlier in his life to do that. He spent $100,000 to enroll in Tony Robbins Platinum Partners Group. And the reason he did that was he wanted to raise the level of his peer group. It was incredible. We talked about the decision to do that, the conversations with his wife, his wife did it with him. Just fascinating. So we talked about relationships as well as personal branding. I know you guys are going to love this one.

Starting point is 00:03:00 I absolutely do. Very excited to introduce you to Joey Coleman. All right, Joey, this is a really special one for me. here to have you on the Learning Leaders Show. I've studied your work for quite some time. I've been fortunate enough to spend time with you in person, and now here we are together, are recording a great conversation. So I got a quick question to get us to get us going. And that is around people that, so you're fortunate to have spent a lot of time around some big time achievers, whether you shared the stage with them, whether you worked and gave a talk at Google, all of these things.

Starting point is 00:03:43 You've been around a lot of high achievers. You yourself are a massive. High Achiever, your dad is, your family members are, so you've spent good time around these people. I'm curious from your perspective, what are some of the common characteristics you found in those high achievers? You know, it's interesting, Ryan. I think, and first of all, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity not only to be on your podcast, but the opportunity I've had to walk in a lot of different lives, whether it's hanging out with well-known speakers or growing

Starting point is 00:04:17 up in a family of politicians and kind of people that were running for president, you know, kind of being around leaders of industry or leaders in various academic fields. And I think if I had to, you know, sum it up, I would say the following. I think all leaders, if you will, have kind of three general things in common. Number one, they have a growth in learning mindset. What I mean by that is they are constantly thirsting for knowledge and learning, whether it be within their industry or within their area of practice, but also beyond. So they're constantly consuming information. They're constantly consuming experiences, and that's a real driver for them.

Starting point is 00:05:05 And to be frank, I know that's one way that you and I connected, because I know that's kind of what drives you, this whole idea of, well, how can I learn more? how can I grow more? How can I kind of experience more? Secondly, I think all fantastic leaders have a common thread of gratitude. They recognize just how lucky and blessed they are. And taking time to appreciate the many gifts and blessings and benefits in their life is a regular part, if not a daily part of their practice. Finally, I think that while successful leaders are very driven and very focused, the very best ones are also gentle with themselves. All too often, I think we can let our drive and our desire to succeed and take things to the next level and accomplishment.

Starting point is 00:06:01 It becomes an all-consuming force inside us that usually is paired with a belief, well, I'm not quite there yet. I need to push harder or I haven't accomplished as much as I want to, I need to do more. I think in general that drive is fantastic and has certainly helped many people arrive at the success that they have achieved to date. But the very best in my experience are gentle with themselves. They pause to not always be pushing themselves 110%. They paused to say, you know, it didn't work out exactly the way I hoped this time. But here are some interesting learnings that came from missing the target. And that kind of loops us back to that growth and learning mindset.

Starting point is 00:06:49 So I think those three things kind of work in concert together, at least in my experience, to create really successful leaders. Wow, I love it. Are there a few people that come to mind when you think of great leaders, high achievers, that embody those three things? Oh, absolutely. I mean, two that come to mind immediately are. Tony Robbins, who I've had the pleasure of working with and kind of being in his audiences

Starting point is 00:07:14 on numerous occasions. I was part of a private mastermind group he ran where I spent about a week with him every month for 18 months straight, which was absolutely incredible. And he definitely embodies all those three things. The other one that comes to mind when you ask, and this could be because at the timing of our recording, at least in the U.S., we're in the throes of political season. and leading up to the next presidential election, I had the opportunity when I was in law school

Starting point is 00:07:45 to work for then-president Bill Clinton, and he would qualify in this category as well. I mean, talk about a guy who was constantly committed to learning and growth, very appreciative of where he was at, and without putting too fine of a point on it, the guy made some mistakes, and he kind of got caught making mistakes, and yet was pretty gentle on himself.

Starting point is 00:08:06 I mean, you know, definitely took himself, to task for some of the choices that he made, I think, or at least that was my perception, but didn't, you know, crawl into the cave and say, well, well, it was me, my life is over. You know, and I think that's, I think that's really important, that gentleness. And I know it's not a word that is often associated with leaders, especially men. I think it's usually more like, oh, he's powerful and he's unstoppable. And it's like, you know, gentle's a pretty powerful attribute as well. Yeah, it's one of the, I, that's, you know, I asked that question to a lot of big

Starting point is 00:08:38 time leaders and I have not heard gentle used yet, but the way you phrase it makes a lot of sense. So Joy, I want to take a step back. So obviously we've, you know, I've been very fortunate to have met you and spent time with you in person just recently, actually. And I came away fascinated not only by the way you were able to present and lead and speak, but also your story, the events that have led up to this point in your life, everything that you've accomplished. And so I'd love to take a minute, or I think you took, how long was it, about 190 slides worth of pictures, but take a little bit of time for you to share, you know, because the one thing, the one difference with you, and you already know this, is your online presence is different.

Starting point is 00:09:22 To my knowledge, no Twitter. No, no. In fact, much lambasted by my peers that are on Twitter, that I am not on Twitter. In full disclosure, I have an account, but it's an account for lurking. and kind of seeing what's going on. I've never tweeted in my life. Yeah, so no Twitter. You do have some bios on websites, but not like the personal, like the Joey Coleman website yet.

Starting point is 00:09:46 I know that's in the works. So that's different, especially with all of the massive things that you've accomplished. I'd love to give you the floor here to share your journey, so to speak, up to this point. Sure, happy to. Well, I think one of the things, lots of times when you ask someone, oh, tell me a little bit about yourself. There's a lot of experts and speakers and authors and leaders out there that will say, well, you don't want to get too much into your life story because that has not a lot to do with where you're at today. And frankly and respectfully, I totally disagree. I think we are the sum of our life experiences.

Starting point is 00:10:24 I think the way you grew up, I think the things that happened to you in the form. There's a reason they're called the formative years, right? And it's because they form who you are. Now, I'm not saying that your childhood dictates your adulthood or where you've been in the past necessarily mandates where you're going in the future, but I think they're a contributing piece. So let me give you a very quick overview. I grew up in a large Irish Catholic family in a small town in northwestern Iowa. I'm one of seven kids. My dad was a very successful criminal defense lawyer trial attorney. My mom was an absolutely world-class state. at home mom. And I had this wonderful amalgamation of siblings. There's five boys and two girls in my family. And we run the gambit from mid-40s down to sophomore in college.

Starting point is 00:11:16 So it was a pretty broad expanse of ages. And because we lived kind of out in the country in the middle of nowhere and because my parents loved travel, there was a lot of time that was built around the family unit. I joke with people who come and visit my family. It was kind of like going to the circus, right? There was always something going on. One of the kids had a sport game or a concert that they were performing in or a musical or some activity that they were doing or a club that they were a part of. And as a result, it was a pretty active childhood.

Starting point is 00:11:56 Coming out of high school, I went straight away to college at University of Notre Dame. studied government and international relations. While I was there, I was also sang with the Notre Dame Glee Club, which gave me the opportunity to travel all the world around the world and perform to audiences small and large, famous and infamous, having marvelous experiences. After that, I transitioned immediately to law school in Washington, D.C. at the George Washington University Law School. While I was there, I predominantly focused on trial work, international law, and national security law. So during my time, I also had the opportunity to work at the White House, the Secret Service, and the CIA, having some incredible

Starting point is 00:12:35 experiences there. After law school, ended up doing business consulting for a while, which was interesting, ended up practicing law for a while, taught at the collegiate level, kind of in an executive education program in Western Massachusetts. We're in a division of a promotional products company, started my own company designing logos, ad campaigns, websites, identity kits, that sort of thing, and then moved into more strategic consulting, which is what I do today, primarily focused on how do you create remarkable customer experiences, particularly in the crucial first hundred days of the client relationship. So in a nutshell, that's how we've gone from a small farming community in Iowa to where I'm doing the call from today is Toronto, where I just did a keynote for an annual meeting of a life insurance company. So it's been an eclectic ride, to say the least, but each of those stops along the way have contributed greatly to not only who I am today, but kind of what my life experience is that I'm drawing from when I have conversations either on the stage or with my consulting clients or over dinner with family and friends. And one of the things you didn't touch on a lot, though, is in how I know you pretty well is from the keynote speaking part of your life, which is a big part.

Starting point is 00:13:55 And one of the things that I found fascinating when we were together last week at this great, what was called the personal IPO training event where we gathered 35 phenomenal people in a room and you led us for two and a half days to help us on a number of different topics from personal brand to becoming a public speaker yourself to having help with Tucker Max to write a book and a lot of things in between. but the speaking aspect of it is what just kind of floored me on a number of different times. And also, but this was a little bit intimidating. I'll bring it up. I was going to talk about this later, but I'll bring it up now. So you're a world-class award-winning speaker who has spoken all over the world. And so you shared your stats with us of the number of speeches you'd given before you technically even became a public speaker.

Starting point is 00:14:50 Actually, I want to share them because it's. This part really got me. So you were, and I think, correct me from wrong, part of this is prior to being the age of 18. So you're on the debate team in high school, correct? Correct. Where you gave 2,304 speeches. Yeah, and forgive me for interrupting. One of the things that I think is relevant to our conversation is I define a speech is me in front of the room speaking for more than four minutes,

Starting point is 00:15:19 where the people who are in the room are there. there for the purpose of hearing me speak. So, for example, getting up and giving a toasted a wedding, that didn't count as a speech, right? So it's, you know, actual, on the stage, I'm giving a speech because the people are there to hear a speech. So like, as you mentioned, over 2,300 speeches on the debate team for four years in high school alone. And then the speech team where you gave 1,152 speeches. In law school, you rounded probably down to 500 speeches. as a lawyer, a thousand speeches.

Starting point is 00:15:54 So in total, you gave 4,956 speeches prior to becoming a professional speaker. Right. That to people who want to do more of that, and I'm obviously one of those, is a crazy, intimidating number because that alone before you even become a speaker is just an immense number of repetition, which has obviously led to a lot of your success. and I'll let you touch on that more than me because you lived it. Sure. I mean, what's interesting about it, Ryan, is I didn't go into it with the goal of how many speeches can I rack up.

Starting point is 00:16:32 To be honest, I had grown up in a family, as I mentioned, of politicians and lawyers. My dad was a super successful criminal defense lawyer. My grandfather was the senior Democratic State Senator in Iowa for 34 years. So I kind of grew up in this world where giving speeches, and for lack of a bad, way of putting it, holding court, was just kind of life growing up, right? I mean, it wasn't, and so I had an interest in it. You know, we joke, you get all of my siblings around at a wedding or something, and if they have open mic for toasting, it's like we all take a turn.

Starting point is 00:17:08 And this wasn't anything. Now, I'm the only one who kind of ended up as a professional speaker. And by the way, the whole concept of professional speaker, the only reason I use that word is to let people know when I'm in a conversation with them. that if they're interested in hiring me to speak at their event, it is going to be a hiring type exchange. That's how I earn my living. So it's by no means trying to make myself sound cooler than I am or anything like that. It's just now I get paid to speak.

Starting point is 00:17:36 The majority of the speeches you indicated that I did, you know, other than the, you know, when I was a lawyer, you can make an argument. I was being paid to speak. But when I was in law school and on the speech team and on the debate team, that was just because I enjoyed doing it. I enjoyed the arguing. I enjoyed concocting arguments and kind of building out theories. I enjoyed persuasion.

Starting point is 00:17:59 I enjoyed trying to convince people to take a course of action that weren't otherwise predisposed to take. And all of those things kind of built into these speaking skills, which, to be completely frank, there wasn't, it was only fairly recently that I decided, you know what, I'm a professional speaker and that's where I want my focus to be. And when I say fairly recently, I mean, within the last two years. Prior to that, speaking was something I did on the side. I was paid to do it, but it was never a proactive choice. It was much more of a reactive choice. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:18:31 And so getting back to the topics, I'm just fascinated by the speech numbers. I think that alone, when you lay that out for us, we were just like, wow. But getting back to the conversation and the event that we were at recently. So it was all around personal branding and some of the things. that go into that. I'd love to dive a little bit deeper now and from a personal brand standpoint. And let's say, let's just try to model this real quick. So somebody comes to you and they say, Joey, well, I'll just use me.

Starting point is 00:19:02 It'll be a lot easier. Sure. I have a podcast. I have a full-time job that I really enjoy. I have a podcast. I'm trying to build out a speaking business that is an arm of the podcast, potentially to monetize it, but more along the lines because it pushes me outside of my comfort zone. It makes me feel that little adrenaline rush like I used to get when I played football that is hard to get nowadays.

Starting point is 00:19:25 And I want to put myself in those situations. Maybe a book's in the future. Maybe a number of things, as we call it, the vessels. There could be a number of vessels from it. What type of advice? What are the things that you're saying? I'm sure you have questions. And that's fine if you're more than welcome to ask the questions.

Starting point is 00:19:42 When somebody says, like, I need to build out my brand and I'm not really sure how to do it, where do you start and where does it go? Yeah, no, it's a great question. I think the opening volley or the foundation of a discussion around personal branding needs to be, well, what do you mean when you use the phrase personal brand? You know, as you experienced at this event workshop we did in Las Vegas, some people came into the room and they're like, I don't even know what a personal brand is. And then other people came into the room saying, I don't know what it is, but I know I need one. And then there were other people who said, I know exactly what it is, but I'm not happy with where mine's at today. And then there was a group of people that said, I know exactly what it is. I'm happy where mine is today, but I want to take it to another level.

Starting point is 00:20:26 So let's come back to kind of the core of what is personal branding. I define personal branding is the image created in a person's mind when they connect your name, specific skills, and reputation. It's kind of a three-pronged test. Now, what's interesting is most people breeze past the first element, the name. The name is hugely important. And I think you'll probably agree with me, a significant percentage of the conversations we had over the course of the two and a half days was about your name. In fact, I hadn't realized how big of an issue this was until I did an event probably

Starting point is 00:21:03 about a year and a half ago for a dozen people at a very high-end mastermind group. We were meeting in New York City. and I found out after the fact that three of the 12 people who were in the room legally changed their names after the conversation, right? And this blew my mind. I was like, wait a second, what? Like, I had no idea. I didn't recommend that.

Starting point is 00:21:23 I didn't go into it with that goal. I found out about it from the organizer after the fact that that many people had decided that their name was not something that they were feeling good about. So what's interesting about a name is it's all about how you're choosing to be identified. As you know, I go by Joey. I'm in my early 40s. Most people listening to this, if they think of the joys they know, do not think of someone who is six foot two and 42 years old. They think of someone who is seven, okay?

Starting point is 00:21:56 Or maybe they think of, you know, guys like Joey Lawrence or Joey Buttafouca or Joey Tribiani from friends. And that's about it as far as the joys. But I've made a conscious decision that not only do I like that name, not only do I think that name kind of captures my personality or at least what I aspire to always be my personality, which is kind of this young, growth-minded, not taking himself too seriously, willing to have a good time, energy. But it also, from a branding point of view, allows me to own a first name that is not that popular in most common adult circles. So the good news is when somebody says, hey, do you know Joey, they don't even have to get to my last name half of the time. And people know exactly who they're talking about. Next, we move on to specific skills. So what are the uniquely specific skills you have that other people don't have?

Starting point is 00:22:53 So let's take your own life, Ryan. Pretend we have like a Venn diagram of who is Ryan, right? So we might have one big circle that says athlete. And your circle is unique because it also says collegiate athlete and it also says arena football athlete. So you're in rarefied air, right? The number of people that go from playing peewee to playing high school football to playing college football to playing arena football to playing in the NFL, every step you take along

Starting point is 00:23:22 this process, the number of people that can claim that skill gets smaller. You also have this newly developing and this skill that I'm excited to see you continue. you developed because I think you're a natural at it, which is interviewing and podcasting. I don't know. My gut instinct is you didn't take a lot of classes in school on interviewing. No. Right? My gut instinct is you didn't take courses in podcasting, right? No. What happened is, going back to our opening conversation, you have a growth and learning mindset. You are curious. And my gut instinct is a big piece of your interview process. And correct me if I'm wrong. This is just me riffing here. We've not talked.

Starting point is 00:24:02 talked about this is your desire to learn, your desire to milk the best thoughts and the greatest takeaways from people who you look to and say, this person has success, either across their entire life or in these slivers of their life that I find interesting. And I want to distill out the essence of how they got from where they were to where they are. And that growth in learning mindset drives you to be a great interviewer. And so the skill feeds on itself. I might argue the same thing about speaking for me, right? The more I speak, the better I get at speaking, right?

Starting point is 00:24:46 I also work at it. I study it. I read about it. I do workshops, et cetera, where I'm the student. But I also, repetition by its very nature, helps us to get better at things. And then the frontal prong of the personal brain test is your reference. reputation. What's interesting here is I actually believe we have many reputations. We have reputation in our professional life, in our personal life, amongst our coworkers, amongst our

Starting point is 00:25:11 friends. You know, we go back to that Venn diagram we were drawing for you. And, you know, by the way, I just gave two of the circles. There are many more. But you had a reputation on the field. You had a reputation in the locker room. Those may have been similar, but my gut instinct is they were a little bit different. My gut instinct is on the football field, you were a terror, but in the locker room, you were a good friend. So even though your teammates knew you and knew you well and kind of knew you in a locker room setting, they would go on the field and you would don a warrior's personality. And it's a different reputation.

Starting point is 00:25:51 Same guy, same name, same skills, but a different reputation based on the environment. operating it. I bet you have a very different reputation as an interviewer in podcasting. I bet you have a different reputation as a husband, as a brother, as a son. Your reputation as an employee, all these things kind of contribute to the reputation of who you are. And when we take those three pillars, if you will, your name, your specific skills and your reputation, and we combine them into one melting pot, that's where the essence of your personal brand lies. Wow, that's incredible. I love how, I mean, we're kind of covering some of the things we went over last week as well as diving a little bit deeper. And I love that. So when somebody says, well, how do I develop that? How do I make that, what do I develop that, how do I make that, what I want to achieve, you know, whatever it is that I want to achieve, you know, whatever it is that I want to be in order to achieve whatever my vision or my goals are? Yeah, I think the first step is we need to baseline where we're at today.

Starting point is 00:27:02 Right? So first and foremost, what's your name? What are you, you know, kind of how does your name fit or not fit your personality? Next, what are your specific skills? Now, here's one where people have a tendency to say, especially high achievers and overachievers, I've got a lot of different skills. No, I get it. You're a multifaceted human being with a lot of skills.

Starting point is 00:27:25 And I love that about you. That's incredible. But at the end of the day, we talked a little bit about this at the workshop. When you meet someone for the first time, the way the human brain works is they're going to try to put you in a box. It's not because they have limiting beliefs about who you are. It's not because they're trying to judge you or manipulate you. It's that the human brain can only file so many pieces of information about the people we meet. And so when we first meet someone, we try to put them in different boxes.

Starting point is 00:27:55 Now, somebody first meeting you, all they'd have to do is listen to about two or three podcasts, and they'd be able to put you into some boxes. Former collegiate athlete, former pro athlete, former student, current student, current podcaster, and interviewer. For example, those might be the three boxes they pick. Now, at the beginning of this process, what you need to do is say, well, what are the boxes people are putting me in right now? and am I excited about that? I'm excited about people putting me in the box of speaker. I'm not as excited about people putting me in the box of logo designer. There was a time when I was, it's a skill I have, it's a skill that I still use to this day,

Starting point is 00:28:39 but it's not the primary one I want to lead with. Same goes for criminal defense lawyer. I still get calls from the back of police cars with people who have found themselves into conversations with law enforcement that they're not excited about. Is that what I lead with? No. Is it who my brand essence is today? No.

Starting point is 00:29:00 But it is a part of my story? Absolutely. And finally, when we get to reputation, the real secret here is to be honest. You may have a killer reputation in one area of your life and frankly a pathetic reputation in another area. And that's okay. I mean, let me turn the lens in on myself a little bit because not, from a place of ego, but to kind of illustrate this point, because you brought it up earlier in the call.

Starting point is 00:29:26 Yeah. I like to think when I'm in the room, in front of the room speaking, I'm one of, if not the best speaker, that you will ever hear. That is my goal. That is what I focus on. Right? Yeah. However, you go to my website, it is not the best website you've ever seen. In fact, it's probably in the bottom 5%.

Starting point is 00:29:50 So my reputation in the real world is potentially super strong. My reputation in the online world is very thin. Now, as a result, as I look to grow my speaking businesses, I look to speak to more and more audiences, that is an area that's getting a lot of focus. And depending on the timeframe between recording this podcast and when you share it with your listeners, hopefully there's more there for them to see. I don't know. We're sharing it pretty quick, man.

Starting point is 00:30:20 Okay, well, good. The pressure's on. The pressure's on. I love it. But that's an area where I recognize my name is wrong. I own the URL, Joey Coleman.com. My specific skills, I'm ready to showcase those. But the reputation in the online world isn't what I want it to be. And part of that requires me being honest and saying, you know what, it's just not there. Now, in the past, I used to just full disclosure, I used to kind of say, well, it doesn't really matter. And it doesn't matter. because I'm busy. I'm getting speaking gigs. I'm getting the consulting gigs. What do I care? The problem is when people see me on stage, they expect, well, when I go online, I'm going to get more of the same. I'm going to get to follow up.

Starting point is 00:31:02 I'm going to get to learn even more. I only got Joey for an hour-long keynote. I want more. There isn't more for them. That's a disservice to my audience. That's why I'm focusing on making it a priority. And so initially before, because we talked about this, but I'm curious to dive in a little bit more.

Starting point is 00:31:19 why? I mean, you didn't, you just, you, because you were booked solid and you didn't, and you didn't feel like you needed it, or it just, you just wasn't something that you cared to even think about? I think it's two pieces. Number one, I used to build websites for a living, right? So I understand the importance of a solid online presence. I understand what it takes. I think two things contributed. And it was kind of the way these two things aligned with each other, it kind of produced a perfect storm. On one hand, I had a very clear vision of what I wanted. I wanted something different. I wanted something unique. I wanted something that was very value-driven, that wasn't an online sales brochure. but was rather a repository of information where people could come to grow, learn, and explore. That's different than building a brochureware site, right? So I knew it was going to take more effort. On the flip side, to your point, I am on the road hustle and speak and growing my business all day every day. For me, my number one sales driver, I just gave a keynote earlier this morning and somebody came up afterwards and they said, how do you get speeches? I'm interested in speaking. How do you get speeches? I said the answer is really

Starting point is 00:32:34 simple. I give kick-ass speeches. And the guy kind of was taking an idea this is financial advisors, right? He was kind of like, oh, this guy is, you know, a little colorful here early in the morning. And I was like, you know, I don't mean to insult you or be disrespectful with my language. But the fact of the matter is, when I hit the stage, my goal is to blow the doors off. My goal is to have people saying, I want more of this. And as a result, result for every, you know, 20 people in the audience, two will hire me in the next two years to speak to their audience. Yeah, I want to hire you.

Starting point is 00:33:12 It's a number game, right? It's really simple. I speak to 100 people, great. There's 10 new clients. I speak to 1,000 people, great. There's 100 new clients. Yeah. And it was perpetuating at such a speed that I was never in a place.

Starting point is 00:33:28 to sit down, or let me rephrase that. I wasn't making the time. I had the choice, but there was kind of no payoff for me, right? Because, oh, well, lots of times people were like, well, I need to build a website to market myself. To me, it wasn't about marketing myself. Where I finally achieved the shift in my thought process was I'm building a website as a resource to give to my audiences. Now, will it also lead to new business? sure, but that's not why I'm building it.

Starting point is 00:34:00 I'm building it to give back to the audience. And as a result, I think the website is going to be a lot more resource-driven. It's going to be a lot more content-driven. Hopefully, it's going to be a lot more interesting for people to come to the site. Then respectfully, what is the typical speaker website, which is, oh, you know, this is a glorified self-promo real. Yeah, I got sure. So there will be footage of me speaking? Sure.

Starting point is 00:34:24 but it'll be more designed to educate than to sell. What is your rate for an hour keynote at a corporation? Yeah, my rate is actually just in the process of changing. It's been $15,000 an hour, and next year it'll go up to $20. I was going to say, I mean, it's the 15 sounds like, it feels to me like an absolute steel for what I've been able to experience. So it's just same thing. I was thinking the one thing it could add is an ability to raise the rate. because the one thing that's, or I'm sure there's many things that are difficult because I think people look at speaking and traveling as being glamorous, but, you know, you have a wife, you have a child, you have another child on the way.

Starting point is 00:35:03 And so you have to travel. And I remember when Tucker Max spoke to us in the last day, it was funny because you were standing in the back and Tucker's up talking mainly about writing a book, but he said, you know, people, some people want to write a book because they want to be a speaker. And but by the way, that's the worst job ever. Nobody should want to be a speaker because it's a terrible. life. And I wanted so badly for you to come up and to have like a little volley with Tucker, but he was in the middle of his talk. When you hear him say that, what thoughts going through your mind and what are both the pros and the cons from doing the type of work that you do for people who do want that type of lifestyle? Sure. Or they think they do, maybe. Yeah. I mean,

Starting point is 00:35:44 the best way to find out if you want any type of lifestyle is to go experience it for a lot. And going back to our initial conversation, be gentle with yourself if when you experience it, you decide, actually, that's not at all what I want. Right? That's okay. This is our time here on the earth to me is about trying new things, having new experiences, and the ones that we enjoy, doing them again and again, and the ones that we don't enjoy, maybe trying them two or three times to see if that's really the reality. And if it's not, then stop doing it. I mean, it's pretty straightforward. You know, it's interesting, having Tucker presented your event, for those folks that are listening that might not have had the chance to meet Tucker, I likened it in a conversation I was in the other day to juggling flaming bottles of vodka. You never know exactly what's going to happen.

Starting point is 00:36:34 And while I appreciate Tucker's perspective, I disagree with it. I think speaking is absolutely incredible. I think it is an adrenaline. I mean, you talked earlier about an adrenaline rush. Are you kidding me? There is no experience I've had. in my life that is the adrenaline rush of walking on stage, a brightly lit stage looking out into a darkened auditorium where you know there are thousands of people who have given their time

Starting point is 00:37:01 and their money and their effort to be in the room who are also going to give you a moment of their life for you to try to impart some learning. I mean, the responsibility that comes from that is huge, the excitement that comes from that is huge. You can actually feel, and this gets a little woo-woo, but you and I have hung out enough to know this is how I roll, you can actually feel the energy coming off the audience. It's the same way to take in the football field. You take the football field in the big game before they've even done the coin toss. You feel the energy of the stadium beating down. Yeah, it's electric. And that's usually the word that's used to describe it. And ironically enough, I think the reason that word is usually used to describe it is because

Starting point is 00:37:45 it makes the hair on your arms stand up. You can physically feel it and you're like, holy shit, this is about to get real. Same thing speaking. I absolutely love it. Now, what's interesting, two things. Number one, you ask the average person they will tell you they hate public speaking. They would rather have anything happen than to have to speak in public. And yet, there are very few people I've ever met on the planet that aren't comfortable

Starting point is 00:38:12 having a one-on-one conversation with another person. Right? So we speak all day long. We're all actually quite accomplished at speaking. We just don't usually do it on a pedestal in front of a bunch of people, right? So first of all, a lot of the fear of speaking is about you just haven't had the chance to do it. And the more you do it, you may find there's some really interesting aspects of life. Secondly, speaking allows you the opportunity to connect with people in an entirely different way, right? I think part of the And this is just me projecting here. I think part of the reason Tucker isn't as big of a fan of it is because it draws him away from other things he likes to do. When speaking is the thing that drives you, it's incredible. I spend about two, two and a half weeks out of every month on the road before people are turning off the podcast and saying, this dirtbag, he's married, he has a two and a half year old and

Starting point is 00:39:07 he's got another one that's showing up in the next 30 days. What kind of horrible father and husband is he? My wife and my son and son to be travel with me 70% of the time. They're always invited. They decide. What's interesting is talk about limiting belief. Sometimes when I share that with people, they're like, oh, well, that works fine and dandy. But what happens when your boys go to school?

Starting point is 00:39:29 I'm like, what's fascinating is that your belief tells you they have to go to school in our hometown. My belief is the planet is their classroom. And so we're planning to either homeschool our kids or very actively include travel as a piece of their education and work that out with their teachers. Now, that's a different mindset. It is a different responsibility. But I look at my own life and I have learned so much from my travels. My first time traveling, so I had traveled to Mexico and Canada, and I'm not saying there isn't great things to learn there. But my first time traveling overseas, I was a sophomore in college and I had the chance to go to the then Soviet Union.

Starting point is 00:40:16 It was incredible. No one was going to the Soviet Union then. Like presidents were barely going to the Soviet Union. And I got the chance to go for three and a half weeks and travel to Moscow, what was then Lenin, grad and then Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Belarus, Minsk, and then back to Moscow. It opened my eyes in ways I can't even begin to articulate, and it actually infected me with a lifelong desire and love of travel to the point where I'm at 45 countries and counting. I think the experiential life, I read a lot, I take a lot of courses, but I also like to go and

Starting point is 00:41:02 experience in person because I think that rounds out your experience. And speaking is an incredible way to do that. Man, I love it. So the one thing I want to talk about too, in addition to, and this plays along with personal brand. And this is, this was, there's a moment, you know, when you were giving a, the, your talk during the workshop and it was right before a break, I believe, because I remember calling my wife after you said it.

Starting point is 00:41:29 But you made a comment that you and your wife decided that, you, you know, you. you needed to raise the level of your peer group. Basically surround yourself with, I don't know, the phrase probably isn't better people, but people who think at maybe a higher level, or maybe their expectation levels are higher. And so you invested $65,000 with Tony Robbins Platinum group in order to raise the level of your peer group, as I stated before,

Starting point is 00:41:55 which then gave you the right to pay even more money to go and do the trainings in person that you mentioned earlier in the podcast. And this part, like I said, I remember vividly going going into the hallway during the break and calling my wife and saying, you're not going to believe this. Joey and his wife decided together that they were going to invest all of this, you know, this money, a big chunk of change. Yeah. Because they realized that while their friends might have been great, they needed to raise the level a little bit or a lot of bit. And you put your money where your mouth is.

Starting point is 00:42:28 And so I love to dive in there about because there's always tension, I think, or it creates, tension amongst friends where people say, you've got to be loyal. You've got to be loyal to the people that maybe you grew up with or people you've been friends with for a long time. And you're not loyal if maybe you start sensing or you start getting a little bit of fame and then you change friends or you stop being friends with people. And I've talked about that with a number of people about tension and friendships about

Starting point is 00:42:52 how sometimes you have to leave people behind because you have a, you and your spouse have a bigger vision about what you want to happen in your lives and you want to do great things for your kids. and some of that means you have to invest to surround yourself with people who are doing things at the level that you want to do them at. Absolutely. So this is a great topic, and I'm so glad you brought it up, Ryan, because I think it's an area that most people feel attention in their life, but often don't do anything about. So let me describe a little bit a context for what was happening for my wife and I, because I think it'll help illustrate the circumstance we were in, and then talk in more general terms about why I think this is important. So at the time, my wife and I, as you mentioned, signed up for Tony Robbins Platinum Partners Group.

Starting point is 00:43:45 He limited it to 100 people worldwide, so we were two of the 100. It was a $65,000 initiation fee. That was for a one-year membership. and then you paid $10,000 for four events so that were private events. So, by the way, now we're at over $100,000 each, right? That was my ticket plus my wife's ticket. There was a spousal. I didn't know that.

Starting point is 00:44:10 Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. This was a six-figure freight train. Wow. It was coming down the road, right? So we're $200,000 in before you talk about plane tickets and food. And you're not, at this point, you're not a millionaire. You're not at all. No, no, no, no, no. Not at all. You know, I think I, you know, when I first signed up for this, I went up to him and I said, so just out of curiosity, I'm going to sign up today. When do I have to give you the money? And they said, well, we like to have that within 15 days. Now, being an entrepreneur, I was like, oh, 15 days? Okay, great. That gets me some wiggle room. I thought I had to hand you of like the cash right now. 15 days, we can work with this and we can build it.

Starting point is 00:44:54 But at the time, this was the money we had. Like, this took our bank accounts to less than four figures total. Wow. Right? I mean, this drained everything. This drained the savings. This drained the investment. This drained everything.

Starting point is 00:45:14 And yet, it was the most important and greatest return on investment choice that we ever made. And the reason is this. There is no investment you can make that will have a better return than investing in yourself. There's none. Stock market, private equity placements, you know, cool, fast tech companies, none of them. None of them come even close because that money, you don't control. An investment in yourself, you're in control.

Starting point is 00:45:53 You're in control of where you're making that investment. You're in control of how much you apply that investment. Now, at the time, we had a great group of friends, great entrepreneurs. We were having a fantastic time. And to be clear, many of the people who we were friends with then, we are still friends with today. That being said, part of the reason my wife and I made this decision is we recognize that in the bulk of the peer groups we were in, we were the one that was kind of, for lack of a better way of putting it, standing on top of the mountain, reaching down to help pull the person up to the summit.

Starting point is 00:46:32 And it wasn't that anybody was faltering or that we were better than the other people. It's just that's kind of the group. We had grown to be the big fish in the little pond. And we looked at each other and it was like, you know what? What would it be like to be in a relationship where other people were reaching down? to pull us up. What would it be like where when you talk to somebody, they had accomplished more in their personal life, in their finances, and their health, in their relationship than we had, and suddenly we have firsthand role models. How would that change the scenario? Well, it's fascinating,

Starting point is 00:47:11 and I don't often share this story, but I'm feeling compelled to. What was fascinating about this group is, there were from all walks of life from all over the world. There was one guy in particular, particular, who was from Russia. And maybe because my origin of traveling internationally came in his home country, I found it a little more interesting. But we got to be really good friends. This is a guy who would pick a company. He would spend two years growing that company and taking it public. He would then exit the company for a personal increase in net worth of somewhere between $200 and $300 million. Wow. He would then go pick another company. and two years later exit again.

Starting point is 00:47:54 And he would do this again and again and again. And it was absolutely, I mean, probably, in terms of personal connection and personal conversations and depth of relationship, the most financially successful business person I've ever been friends with. Wow. We're talking one day.

Starting point is 00:48:13 We're in Fiji, because Tony always had his events at these incredible locations, right? So he has a resort in Fiji. We're at his resort in Fiji. And this guy and I are having a place. a great time we're having conversations and he's working on this deal and he's asking my advice about the business and we're talking about it you know and I'm learning from him and he's kicking ideas around we're going and we kind of finished up and I was like look this is incredible I've learned

Starting point is 00:48:36 more in the last two hours than I would have learned in 20 years of business school this has been tremendous I feel like I've been taking from you what what could a guy like me ever provide to a guy like you. And he got really quiet and he leaned in and he said, you know, Joey, I watch you and Barrett. My wife's name is Barrett. He said, I watch you and Barrett and I'm envious. You have such an incredible relationship.

Starting point is 00:49:06 I want to learn relationships and relationship with my spouse by modeling you. I was blown away. Here's a guy who is the most. financially successful, business successful icon I've ever personally met and had relationships with. And he's saying that I'm a role model to him. That's when I recognize that piece that we started with around gratitude. Don't miss the blessings that are right in front of you.

Starting point is 00:49:39 I have a world-class wife. We have an incredible relationship. We have our moments. All couples do, right? But she loves me, she supports me, she cares for me. I like to think I do the same thing for her at every opportunity. And the moral of the story is when you look at your peer group, who is elevating you financially, spiritually, professionally, in terms of your health, in terms of your relationships? And if you're not finding that in your peer group, it's not disloyal to go looking for it elsewhere.

Starting point is 00:50:14 I'm not saying you take a machete and chop off the past, right? Yeah. What I am saying is it is okay to acknowledge that sometimes we have friends for a period of our life and we don't have to carry them into the next period. That's okay, right? For most of us, that describes a lot of the relationships we have in high school. Yeah. Now, I'll be honest.

Starting point is 00:50:39 I go to the high school reunions. It's fun to see people. There is really one guy I keep in touch with from high school, my best friend growing up. He and I, we still talk on a regular basis. We get together every time I'm back in my hometown. We have a fantastic relationship. But that's one from high school. College, it's probably about a dozen.

Starting point is 00:51:03 Half a dozen is super close, a dozen extended. Law school, it goes back down again. Probably two or three with about a half a dozen extended. I don't look at the other people that were in my life at that time and say, oh, you are nothing to me, you're dead to me, you have no value. It's just, it's not where I'm choosing to make deposits now into my bank of relationships. Yeah, I, you know, I think a lot of people listening when they hear the beginning part of that story. The story, by the way, is just, I love it, man.

Starting point is 00:51:38 I appreciate you sharing, especially about, you know, how you're modeling, having a relationship for somebody else who's had immense financial success. but I think a lot of you listening are saying, Joey, are you kidding me? My wife would kill me if I came home and said we wanted to spend that much money on that type of a group. So I want to, if you don't mind, Sharon. Yeah. What was the, you know, like for example, when I told my wife now I'm, I think one thing that we have in common, probably there's a few things, but one thing for sure is that we have very supportive wives. Sure. And my wife was like, it excited her.

Starting point is 00:52:13 And she was like, how can we do something similar? Like it was the first thing she said. It wasn't like, oh, that's crazy that he spent that much money. And it really inspired me, right? And I knew she would. I mean, I know her obviously well. We're married. But, I mean, it was still a cool moment for us.

Starting point is 00:52:27 I'm curious when you first brought that up, or maybe she brought it up to you, however that conversation went, because I know that people are saying, you've got to be kidding me, man. Like, because, you know, we all have friends whose wives and husbands, vice versa. It doesn't matter who brings it up. The other one saying, that's nuts. What was that conversation like with her? Yeah, so we were, we had been at this at a Tony Robbins event as participants. Together.

Starting point is 00:52:50 Together. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, great. Thank you for saying together because that actually reminded me of something. So two things. Number one, before my wife and I even started dating, I was doing, I had gone to two Tony Robbins events.

Starting point is 00:53:04 And they had been life changing. I mean, life changing. Now, there's some people probably listening going, God, that Tony Robbins Kool-Aid, like, are you kidding me? But for me, it had made a huge impact. I went to the first one. And based on the things I learned at that event, I got out of a relationship in my personal life that was not the right fit long term. I doubled my business.

Starting point is 00:53:30 And I dramatically changed my diet and I lost 50 pounds. Wow. Now let that sink in a little bit. I changed my diet. I did not exercise one second. What I did is I changed. the food that I was using my own hand to insert into my own mouth, I changed what I was grabbing with my hand or with a fork. And I lost 50 pounds in three months. I then went to the second

Starting point is 00:53:59 event. Not only did I keep the 50 pounds off, I tripled my business and I got really clear on what I was looking for in a relationship. I had known my wife for years. She actually had actually manage the co-working space that I worked out of. So we've been friends for a long time. And we're sitting there after the second event. We're talking. And this is her version of telling the story, not my version. We had a holiday party at our office.

Starting point is 00:54:27 And for whatever reason, Ryan, and every guy listening to this is going to know, you know, sometimes when the mojo's on, the mojo's on, and you're just riding the wave, I got three numbers that night from three smoking hot women at this party. And I didn't ask for the numbers. This is them giving me their numbers saying, we need to hang out more. Call me. Right? Kind of looking you at those eyes that you're like, yes, I will be making that call.

Starting point is 00:54:54 This is great, right? I couldn't believe it. Fast forward, my wife, my now wife, then friend, comes to me and she says, look, I don't know what's going on with you. You've lost all this weight. There's a spring in your step. And I watch three women fight over you at our party. what has been going on in your life?

Starting point is 00:55:12 I said, well, to be honest, I've been going to these two, I went to these two seminars with Tony Robbins. It completely changed my perspective. She said, we need to talk about this. She said, and the way she tells it, anything that could dramatically change someone's life that much, she wanted to learn more. She has a growth in learning mindset, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:30 So, long story short, we have some conversation. She's interested. She goes to an event. After she gets back from the event is when we're dating. right so she already had bought into personal development and ongoing growth and learning so we're at this event we go together right we're dating and we're at this event and they present this platinum partners program we go to dinner afterwards and i'm nervous this is before you were married this before we were married oh yeah before we're married we're dating we're both at the event we're dating and we're at this event and we're

Starting point is 00:56:04 sit down at dinner and I'm nervous because I want to broach this topic, right, about going all in and investing in this, but I'm not sure how she's going to react. And so I said, look, something happened today at the event that I wanted to talk to you about. And she's like, okay, I said, yeah, and I got to be really honest. I'm a little nervous about it because it's a big ask. She said, we totally need to join platinum partners. I was like, wait, what? And she said, oh, yeah. I was like, it's a lot of money. She's like, I know. And I was like, it's a lot, a lot of money. She's like, I know.

Starting point is 00:56:38 I said, this pushes back things like weddings and houses and things like that. She's like, I get it. But it's an investment in ourselves and an investment in our relationship. I said, wow, I'm with the right woman. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Fast forward, the year we were engaged was in the 12 months of the 18 months.

Starting point is 00:57:01 We got married part way through our time when Platinum partners. It was incredible. And so we had all this growth and learning and development going on at the same time. So here's you ask about, oh, well, what about people who might be listening that they're like, how do I broach this topic? You don't need to jump to the $65,000 plus $10,000 of event level immediately. Okay? There can be an evolutionary process.

Starting point is 00:57:25 I chose to make the big leap because I knew myself well enough to know that if I made that type of investment, I would play full out and make it a priority. If it was, hey, join this club for $50 a month, I'd probably go but not go all the time. Right? So where are you making the investments, not only of your dollars, but of your time? Secondly, if you sit down with your significant other, your spouse and you really say, hey, I think by investing in ourselves, we can take our life is good, but we can take our life to great. or our life is great, but we can take our life to amazing. If your relationship is solid, if you're in the right relationship, they're going to see that.

Starting point is 00:58:11 And if it seems a little rocky, what you can turn around as you say is, hey, what about just investing in our relationship? How about that? You know, those people that are involved in business and entrepreneurs, we're great at spending money to go to events and conferences, where we can learn about how to grow our business, how to take our business online, how to maximize our profits, blah, blah, blah. how often do we go to an event where we learn to become a better spouse or a better father? Yet we all give lip service to these are the important things in our life. Yet where do you invest your time, your money, and your talent? Yeah. Wow.

Starting point is 00:58:49 I love it, man. That's an awesome story. Joey, I have to tell you, and I know we talked obviously a little bit prior to hitting record, this is not how I thought this conversation would go, which is cool. I mean, it's really neat when this happens because it doesn't happen all the time. But I have, you know, like I said, four pages of notes and some questions and things like that. And we've talked about a lot of things that I don't have a part of those notes. And that's really neat to me because the questions popped to my mind because I think the relationships to me is such a big deal.

Starting point is 00:59:26 And I and so and I was fascinated by you. investing in not only your own relationship with your wife, but with others. And I should have said this much earlier, but I have to give a massive thank you to Jason Gainard for really facilitating this entire event. And he was guessed if people want to listen, 0-0-1, the first ever episode I did of this podcast. And you can hopefully hear some improvement from 1 to 70 or whatever we're at right now through the process. But I have to give him huge props because talk about a guy who understands how to curate a room, how to

Starting point is 01:00:03 put together the right people in the room, how to get the perfect person to lead it and you, you know, the whole night, the first night, how he takes us to see the Michael Jackson Cirque de Soleil Show won. The whole thing was just incredible.

Starting point is 01:00:19 And so I wanted to make sure he got some props. I should have talked about him earlier in his comments. Absolutely. Absolutely. And Jason is a great guy. Let me tell you, when Jason came to me to talk about this personal branding event. He said, Joey, look, I know you've spoken about personal branding. I'd spoken to his private mastermind group, which I was also part of about personal branding. And he said, you know, I think a lot of people would be interested in it. Let's do something.

Starting point is 01:00:44 And I said, that's great. Jason puts on world-class events. He believes very strongly investing in his community, investing in his tribe, taking great care of them. And it was a no-brainer for me to say, yeah, you coordinate the logistics. I'll handle the content and together we'll combine and overlap on those topics as well. But yeah, he did a marvelous job of filling the room with remarkable individuals like yourself. And then, you know, as I said at the event, and I'll say again, a big piece of this is how much are you willing to play full out and lean in? We had an, I like to think we had an absolutely incredible event. The people who were in that room gave 150%.

Starting point is 01:01:28 I mean, I was talking to somebody the other day, and this is meant as a compliment to the people in the room. I said, I watched, and 30 of the 35 people were in tears at some point during the event. And of the five who weren't during the event, two have privately reached out to me since then to say they went back to their hotel room when the event ended and cried for hours. Now, to be clear, this was not an event that was designed to be a tear-jurker or to be therapy, although some people felt that's what it had turned into.

Starting point is 01:02:03 It was an event about who you are as a person. And the fact of the matter is, the majority of us are on autopilot. We don't spend time looking at these things. And when someone finally comes along, like I tried to do, and says, let's press pause, evaluate where we've been, where we are, and where we want to go in all areas of our life, and really explore things like self-worth and value and belief systems, it can be an emotional conversation. It can be something that kind of cuts to the core of who we are.

Starting point is 01:02:38 And my belief is the reason that worked as well as it did is because the people in the room were willing to trust and lean into it. people like yourself saying, you know what? Yeah, I'll be a little vulnerable here. I'll talk about the things that are working, but I'll also talk about the things that aren't working. And I'll open myself up to exploring what could I be doing differently, which again, not to be a broken record, brings us back to that growth and learning mindset. That willingness to say, you know what? I want to learn. I want to experience. I want to grow. And while it scares me, it also excites me. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:21 I cannot say it any better. This is just phenomenal. I love it. And I do want to wrap up with a question that I ask everybody because, really because I'm curious to hear what you're going to say, just like everything else. So the whole purpose, and we've talked about this, behind me doing this podcast, Joey, is because I have a fascination with a couple of things. Well, really with more than that, but the specifics of this show are around understanding the art,

Starting point is 01:03:47 and science around leadership and what it entails and how it's a learned skill. You know, I'm personally born more of an introvert, was thrust into a leadership position in second grade when my coach said, you're going to be the quarterback of the team and you need to be a rah-rah guy. And I've never really been that guy, but I found other ways to lead. So I'm fascinated with learning multiple different ways to be a phenomenal leader. And I love the process of learning. You know, one of the members of the group said read Josh Waitskins, The Art of Learning, which I have since read. I downloaded it immediately and read a big chunk of it on the airplane flying home.

Starting point is 01:04:26 Phenomenal book. But I love the process of learning, of everything that goes into it to constantly think about it and to consciously make decisions to do it. And so when you hear the phrase learning leader, the brand of this show, when you hear that phrase, what's the first thing that pops into your mind? When I hear the phrase learning leader, I think the first thing that pops into mind is someone who is curious. Someone who is willing to explore things that they don't know from the eyes or the mindset of a child. You know, it's really interesting. As I mentioned, I have a two and a half year old, Lachlan. And the thing that I have loved most about being a father.

Starting point is 01:05:18 and it's kind of selfish to say this, but it's honest, is watching another human being learn. It's incredible to me. It's incredible to me to watch as he moved from basically lying there crying to crawling and walking and talking and now putting things together. He's become fascinated in the last probably month to two months with Legos, which I love. I'm a huge Lego fan. My wife is a huge Legos fan. This is how you know you hit the

Starting point is 01:05:55 jackpot when you marry a woman who likes Legos even more than you do. She also likes Star Wars more than I do. Yeah, I mean, it's just, and I love Star Wars. Don't get me wrong. I mean, it's just incredible. Dave Ramsey was speaking in the bed I was at not too long ago, and he said, never trust a man who didn't marry up. And while that could be seen as being pretty sexist, I totally feel like I'm married up. But I think the cool thing is, I think she feels the same way. Right. And so when it comes to a learning leader, it's somebody who has the eyes of a child and the curiosity and the willingness to lean in and say, I don't know a damn thing about this, but I'm intrigued. I want to learn more.

Starting point is 01:06:38 I'm willing to make mistakes. I'm willing to bbble it a little bit. You know, it's really interesting. You mentioned your coach thrusting you into that leadership. position. Two things came up for me when you said that. Number one, the coach may have thrust you into it, but you answered the call. And that's all on you, right? Yeah. Kudos for him for recognizing and spotting in you an ability that was probably a little hidden in your more introverted nature. But you also could have said, yeah, no, it's not me, coach. Or you could have taken

Starting point is 01:07:17 the position and said, yeah, okay, well, I'll kind of dial it in, but it's just, it's too hard, or it's not how I'm hardwired. You know, we live in a world where now it's become interestingly more acceptable to say, well, I'm an introvert or an extrovert, and allow that to just kind of check the box, and it's the end of the story. I follow the school of thinking of Dan Pink that I'm an ambivert. Depends on the timing. When I'm on stage, you bet your ass I'm an extrovert. They feel the energy coming out of me. When I come back off stage, I crash. I become introverted. It gets real quiet and I focus internally. And I acknowledge both sides of my personality and I try to honor both sides of my personality. The other thing that came up for me when you told that story about

Starting point is 01:08:03 the coach saying, hey, Ryan, we need you to be the quarterback is there is no single set of skills or approaches that defines successful leader. Yeah. You know, who is a better leader? General Patton or Mother Teresa? Yeah, that's a great point. They're both fantastic leaders. They both rallied tons of troops, and I'm using quotes when I say this, behind them to

Starting point is 01:08:32 follow their goal and follow their mission and do things that they didn't think were possible two very different approaches though, two very different skill sets. I don't believe that extroverts have the monopoly on leadership. I don't believe that the outspoken public speaker person on the stage has the monopoly on leadership. Leadership is about are you strong enough in your own convictions to show others by the example you're living? because if the answer to that is yes, you my friend are a leader. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:12 And I'm as impressed by people that lead, you know, a small group of one or two or even themselves as I am by those who are able to lead millions. It's actually easier to lead millions if we're really honest. It's much, much easier to lead a large group than a small group. So if you're listening and you're the kind of person who's like, well, I don't know if I could do this whole speaking thing or I don't know that I want to be a CEO or have a big company or a lot of people reporting to me. Look at the areas where you're already leading. Chances are good you're leading amongst certain aspects of your friends, certain aspects of your family.

Starting point is 01:09:52 Even if you're just leading yourself through this life, that's an accomplishment worth celebration. Absolutely, man. Again, you finished it, you know, on the money. So, Joey, I have to just commend you and thank you. Obviously, we're going to have many more conversations as we both progress. I'm excited to do that. As a mind. I'm just so grateful for you.

Starting point is 01:10:17 I do ask this question a lot too. Where can everybody go to find you online? Classic question. Classic question. So here's where it is. And my request in the same way that I think leaders are gentle with themselves, I'd ask your listeners to be gentle with me. The place you want to go is Joey Coleman.com.

Starting point is 01:10:37 That's J-O-E-Y. Coleman like the camping equipment, C-O-L-E-M-A-N dot com. In the very near future, i.e. before the end of the year, that will be the place to find me. And my email, I'm happy to share this, is Joey at Joey Coleman.com. Very straightforward, very easy. Again, J-O-E-Y. I look forward to connecting. I can't thank you enough not only for playing full out, but for creating a podcast, which

Starting point is 01:11:08 I'm a listener. I enjoy listening to it. I think you are really tapping into an important conversation which isn't being held enough in our world, which is why is it important to lead? How do you lead? And where are you going to lead people to? In a world where increasingly the person who is seen as the leader is the person who runs their mouth the most or says the thing with the greatest shock value, I would love to see us creating more centered leaders, more leaders who come from a place of, it sounds corny, but from a place of good instead of from a place of ego and self-aggrandizement and self-accomplishment. I think there's a great opportunity there.

Starting point is 01:12:01 I admire and appreciate doing the work you're doing, and I can't thank you enough for having me as a guest. I've been very honored to be part of the conversation. Well, I appreciate it, man. And we're actually going to do it again because you have a whole other topic when it comes to customers, and it's the first 100 days. But I could keep this one going for another hour, but I want to be respectful of your time.

Starting point is 01:12:21 I know you've already rocked the house this morning in Toronto, so I want to give you obviously some time. to chill and relax. But I'm so appreciative of you being here, and I can't wait for our next conversation, man. Thanks, Ryan. I look forward to it as well. All right. Talk soon. Bye.

Starting point is 01:12:37 This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 068: Joey Coleman – What Is Your Personal Brand?

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