The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 098: Alison Levine – Climbing Everest & Impressing Arnold Schwarzenegger

Starting point is 00:00:00 What that mountain taught me is that everybody has that voice in their head that tells them they can keep going even when they feel like they can't. Because when I was on that mountain, I was feeling dehydrated and weak and feeling sick from the altitude. And I thought, this is it. I got to turn around. And I said, well, I'll just take one more step before I turn around. And I took one more step. And then I thought, okay, wait, I just need to take one more step again. You know, I just took one. Maybe I can take one more. Then I thought, well, all right, maybe just one more. And then that voice kept saying, well, okay, one more, take one more. And I kept taking one step and one more step. And eventually I was at the summit. And then I knew I had that voice in my head. And everybody has that voice in their head that tells them they can keep going. You just have to find it.

Starting point is 00:00:49 And once you hear that voice, you know it's always there. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey guys, before we get to this great conversation, I want to let you know that this episode was brought to you by Mizan and Maine.

Starting point is 00:01:26 You'll probably remember from episode 64, I spoke with a CEO of Mizn and Maine, Kevin Lavelle, and we promised to continue that dialogue as we both progressed on our journeys. we certainly have and we formed a partnership and Kevin and his great companies and support and people that he works with have agreed to sponsor my podcast. But for me, I'm very picky when it comes to this. I only wanted to work with people who I truly believed in their products. So this is not just a sponsor to me. This is an endorsement.

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Starting point is 00:03:12 If you happen to want to buy three button downs like I've done a couple times, use the code Ryan Hawk 3 and you'll get $50 off. Again, I love Miz and Maine. I love everything they stand for. And I promise when you try the search, you will too. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. so excited from the conversation I just had with our featured leader Alison Levine.

Starting point is 00:03:42 She brought so much energy to the show. Allison completed the Adventure Grand Slam, which is climbing the seven summits, the highest peaks on each continent, and skiing to the North and South Poles. Fewer than 30 people in the world have ever done this, and she is one of those people. She's a best-selling author. Her book is titled On the Edge, The Art of High Impact Leadership, Fans. fantastic book. And she's also one of the best keynote speakers in the world. She gives roughly 100 speeches a year at $25,000 of pop. I have been in the crowd for one of her speeches, and they are incredible. A couple of the things we got into tonight. First of all, I have to just say that

Starting point is 00:04:25 Allison is such a great storyteller, and she's very funny. I know you're going to love that aspect of her personality. But anyway, a couple of topics. How she impressed Arnold Schwarzenegger enough in order to get offered a job on his campaign to be the governor of California. Then how thinking creatively as a waitress while she was in college led to her first job out of college. That was a fantastic job for her. And then lessons learned while climbing Mount Everest. Some of the failure she experienced, some of the tough moments in her life and how she reacted to that failure and her resilience see. Allison is one of the most inspiring people you were here on this podcast.

Starting point is 00:05:08 I loved having this conversation. I know you will too. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's Allison Levine. Allison, I am so excited to have you here on the Learning Leader Show. And I got a quick question to get us rolling. And I'm pumped for your energy because I'm a big fan of yours. But this question is around sustained excellence. People who have achieved big things and have continued to sustain that over

Starting point is 00:05:43 over time. And I'd love to hear from you. You know, you've spent a lot of time around those types of people. You certainly are one of those people. What are some of the common characteristics that those people all seem to share? I think a common characteristic that they share is resilience, more than anything else. And, you know, and what I do, climbing mountains or, you know, these extreme ski expeditions to the north and South Pole or whatever it is, you have to have to have that strong sense of resilience. And I remind people all the time, you don't have to be the best,

Starting point is 00:06:19 strongest, fastest climber to get to the top of a mountain. You just have to be absolutely resilient about putting one foot in front of the other. That's really all it's about. Do a few people come to mind when you think of super resilient people who have sustained excellence? Well, I mean, one, this is somebody I absolutely worship and I've never met her, but Malala. I mean, talk about resilience. You mean, being shot in the head by the Taliban and coming back even stronger with her message about education and, you know, rights for girls. And, I mean, that girl, young woman is absolutely unstoppable. Interesting answer.

Starting point is 00:07:05 I was thinking of somebody in the, I don't know, mountain climbing space. And so you took a complete left turn, which I love. I love her, though. I mean, I'm obsessed with Malala and her father, who's such a big, you know, proponent and supporter of her. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Allison, I'd love to dig into you and your story now. So in a few brief sentences, what would, when somebody asked you, hey, Allison, what do you do? How do you respond?

Starting point is 00:07:35 Well, first of all, I say, oh, my gosh, that's kind of a hard question to answer. So I do a couple of different things. What I love doing most is climbing mountains. I am a mountaineer, a polar explorer, and an extreme adventure. So I've climbed the highest peak on all seven continents, known as the seven summits, and then skied to both the north and the south pole. And, I mean, I've enjoyed, you know, I enjoy climbing these peaks at, you know, these high peaks, but there are also so many other mountains that I love that I've had amazing

Starting point is 00:08:10 experiences on that are mountains that nobody's ever heard of, and there's smaller peaks, so they don't get as much recognition. But I think if you can get off the beaten path and do something completely different, for example, I just came back from an expedition in Antarctica where we did the first descent of a mountain called Hall Peak, which is out in the Larson Valley in Antarctica, nobody had ever been there before. So that's really the kind of stuff that I absolutely love doing. And when I'm not in the mountains, I'm also an author. I have a book that's a New York Times bestseller called On the Edge, Leadership Lessons from Mount Everest and other extreme environments. And I'm on the road,

Starting point is 00:08:47 probably 250 days a year, speaking at conferences and lecturing about leadership in extreme environments. Incredible. And I know obviously super well educated as well prior to doing all this, But I love origin stories and how people get started doing things. How does one get a start in climbing mountains and doing it all over the world? Well, when I was younger, I was always intrigued by the stories of the early Arctic and Antarctic explorers and the early mountaineers. And I would read these books and I'd watch documentary films. And eventually the light bulb went on in my head. And it was after I had my second heart surgery.

Starting point is 00:09:29 so I was born with a hole in my heart that got bigger as I got older. And I had one surgery when I was 17. I had my second surgery and I turned 30. So I'm 49 now. But after my second surgery, the light bulb just kind of went on. And I thought, okay, now that I'm healthy, if I want to know what it's like to be Reinhold Messner and drag a 150-pound sled across 600 miles of Antarctic ice, then I should go do it instead of just reading about it. If I want to know what it was like to be, you know, Robert Susser.

Starting point is 00:09:59 Scott or Roald Amundsen or Sir Edmund Hillary or any of these people, then why not get out into these environments and challenge myself? And if these other people can go out and do these things, then why can't I do it too? You know, what's stopping me? Wow. And so the beginning of it, now, what's the process like there? So you find some who are the best and say, hey, I want to do this? Do people tell you you're crazy when you're telling them this?

Starting point is 00:10:24 Or what's it like at that moment? I do hear a little of your crazy every now and that. I started off on much smaller mountains that were less challenging, less physically demanding, less technical, so that I could really build my skills up. And I mean, the first mountain I ever went to was Kilimanjaro. And actually, anybody could go to Mount Kilimanjaro and climb it. It's just a long, strenuous walk at altitude, but you don't need any special technical skills or equipment, really.

Starting point is 00:10:56 And I just borrowed, I didn't, you know, I'm from Phoenix, Arizona. so I didn't even really own any warm clothes. And so I borrowed a jacket, a fleece jacket, a Gortex jacket from friends or friends of friends, borrowed a backpack, borrowed everything I needed, and just went to Kilimanjaro by myself. And that was the first mountain I ever went to. And although it wasn't technically challenging, it was just, you know, about resilience, like, you know, my favorite word, resilience. What that mountain taught me is that everybody has that voice in their head that tells them they can keep going even when they feel like they can't.

Starting point is 00:11:37 Because when I was on that mountain, I was feeling dehydrated and weak and feeling sick from the altitude. And I thought, this is it. I got to turn around. And I said, well, I'll just take one more step before I turn around. And I took one more step. And then I thought, okay, wait, I just need to take one more step again. I just took one. Maybe I could take one more. Then I thought, well, all right, maybe just one more. And then that voice kept saying, well, okay, one more, take one more. And I kept taking one more step and one more step. And eventually I was at the summit. And then I knew I had that voice in my head. And everybody has that voice in their head that tells them they can keep going. You just have to find it. And once you hear that voice, you know, it's always there. And it will serve you very well in the future. But I got started, you know, on Kilimanjaro. And from there, I, you know, I was right about to start grad school at Duke. And

Starting point is 00:12:28 time I had a break from school, I went to a different mountain. I didn't have any money because I was living off of student loans, but I figured out if I could throw everything I needed to get by in a backpack, warm clothes, freeze-dried food, camping stove, sleeping bag, tent. I could basically travel the world on all of my breaks in between terms at Duke. And on my, you know, Christmas, winter break, Christmas break, summer break, spring break, I could, you know, I had frequent tons of frequent flyer miles, I could fly anywhere I wanted, and then basically just go climb mountains without spending any money because everything I needed went right in my backpack. Well, that's the one thing I was going to bring up. So you go and get your MBA from Duke.

Starting point is 00:13:11 When you get done with that, you move to New York and work in investment banking for Goldman Sachs. And then you also go and work for Arnold Schwarzenegger in his bid to become the governor of California. You're like, that's why when you read your story, Allison, you have, you know, I try to find really interesting and inspiring people to come on my show. You literally have like seven different stories that would be enough to come on the show. And they just all happen to be yours, your own, you've done. That's what I love to hear like, where does this come from? It's incredible. It's like story within a story within a story.

Starting point is 00:13:50 Yeah, I just like, you know, I feel like we're only on this earth for limited amount. out of time. And I like to try all kinds of different things, especially things I know I'm not that good at and just, you know, because you learn so much about yourself when you do things that you're not good at. So, for example, going to work in finance at Goldman Sachs, I had no business background. I had no finance background. I was lucky I passed barely my finance classes in business school and ended up getting a job at Goldman. And it was so far from anything I had done. before and it was so far out of my comfort zone that I thought, all right, this is the job that I want. I want to go do something that I know I'm not very good at that's really going to make me

Starting point is 00:14:34 stretch. That's really going to make me uncomfortable. And I don't think I lasted in the job more than three years, but I learned so much about myself and I learned about an industry that I knew nothing about. And I just like learning opportunities. I mean, that's kind of what keeps me motivated to keep trying new things is just the opportunity to learn. And from there, then to help with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yes. So I got to tell you, he was actually a great candidate to work for. I learned so much from him.

Starting point is 00:15:07 So how it happened was I was speaking at a fundraiser one night and some people who were working on a campaign for him. This is before he was running for governor. He had co-authored a state ballot initiative called Prop 49. And I was speaking at this fundraiser and some people from Prop 49 were there. And they just said, oh, you were a really good speaker, blah, blah, blah. And then they knew I worked at Goldman. And then it came time Arnold was sort of making the rounds, gaining support and fundraising for Prop 49.

Starting point is 00:15:40 And he was going to be in the Bay Area. And they called me and said, hey, they said Arnold's going to be in San Francisco. And he's got a couple of hours to kill. you know, and they wanted to bring him by Goldman Sachs. And so I actually played on that phrase, Arnold's going to be, you know, Arnold's going to be there. He's got a couple of hours to kill. And what I did is I looked up his movies and I totaled the number of people that he could kill in a couple of hours. Like he, I looked up all the Schwarzenegger movies and I tallied how many fatalities they were and what Arnold could do when he had a couple of hours.

Starting point is 00:16:22 to kill. So when he, I arranged for him to come to Goldman and speak to like the senior partners and the VPs and things like that. And I got to introduce him. And I literally like memorized how many people he killed in a couple of hours. And his handlers thought it was really funny. They said, you know, we go to events all the time and we hear introductions all the time. They said that was the funniest, most creative introduction we've ever heard. And they said, if he ever runs for governor, you should, you know, you should come, you know, come work on the campaign. And so I thought, oh, you know, they probably don't mean that. But sure enough, after he announced that he was running, I got a phone call.

Starting point is 00:17:03 And that's when I left Goldman and popped down to L.A. and worked for Californians for Schwarzenegger. And I mentioned that I thought he was a really good candidate to work for. And I just want to expand on that a little bit because I learned a lot about leadership from him. The way he treated us on the campaign. So he would, I worked in campaign finance and he would walk down the hallway and see me and he would say, hey, how's our mountain climber doing? Well, you have to do that. You have to act like say it in his voice.

Starting point is 00:17:34 I'm just kidding. Go ahead. He'd say, how's our mountain climber doing? And he wouldn't say, hey, how's campaign finance? Hey, how much money have we raised? Hey, what's our budget for advertising? He would say, hey, how's our mountain climber doing? Like, look, I don't even know if he knew my name, but he knew I was a mountain climber.

Starting point is 00:17:54 And the fact that he took the time to get to know his people, his staffers on a personal basis was a great leadership lesson for me. And I write about that a little bit in my book on the edge how important it is to get to know people as individuals, not just as your team that's doing stuff for you. You know, he wasn't asking about what I was doing for him. he was referencing something that was important to me. And that told me that I was important to him. And that helped really build the trust and the, you know, the loyalty among our team is the fact that we all felt like he cared about us as people, not about, not that he cared about us as people that could do stuff for him. So that was a, you know, a really good leadership lesson that I learned from working for Arnold Schwarzenegger. I think it's a great lesson for any leader, especially if you work at a big company, because oftentimes the words like FTE or head count, FTE stands for full-time employee for people who don't work at a big company.

Starting point is 00:18:59 But when you start referring to people, actual humans, people that do all of the work, that do a lot of the hard work, but when you start referring to them as FTE or head count, those are trigger words for me that are not good. And I'm a firm believer that you should know know. So I love that story. And I've heard so many really interesting great things about people who have had spent time with Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's really cool to hear that story. Yeah, I thought, wow. He got to know his people. Like he took the time to learn about me as a person and what's important to me and what I'm passionate about.

Starting point is 00:19:37 And that really made a difference. He, you know, versus like I said, somebody that walks down the hall. It's like, hey, how's our budget? You know, how much money, how, how's the fundraising going, which is basically saying, what am I, he's asking me then, what am I doing for him? Right. Right. When he's like, how's everything looking in finance? So it's different.

Starting point is 00:19:55 It was really a great way to build trust and loyalty and camaraderie, you know, among the people that were working for him. That's incredible. I love it. Another interesting part of your story, and I learned this in doing some research preparing for our time together, is the fact that you, being great at your job as a waitress led to an opportunity. Can you tell that story? I can't believe you dug up that information. That's awesome. All right. So when I was in college, I worked as a waitress at a restaurant in Tucson. I went to the University of Arizona. I grew up in Phoenix. I actually worked in restaurants in high school too. And I liked working in restaurants,

Starting point is 00:20:35 not just because I could sneak extra dessert from the kitchen, but because I liked interacting with through people. So I was working at this restaurant in Tucson, and the concierge from one of the nicer hotels called and said, hey, we're sending in, you know, a big group from Mattel Toys. They were in town for a convention called Pre-Toy Fair. So there's this big Toy Fair convention in New York, but pre-toy fair is in Tucson, and they have a, I guess, a pre-trade show before the big trade show in New York. And so they invite customers out to to preview their lines and, you know, before everybody else gets to see it. So the concierge's called and said, okay, I'm sending in a big party from Mattel. Can you accommodate them? And I said, yes. And I was

Starting point is 00:21:22 immediately interested because I was studying marketing in school. And I thought, oh, Mattel, that's a great marketing company, you know, great brand. And so I knew that Mattel was releasing their He-Man Masters of the Universe, you know, action figure line or whatever in conjunction with the he-man movie that was coming out. And so I actually ran down to, it was 7-Eleven and they were serving slurpees in He-Man Masters of the Universe Cups. And I went down

Starting point is 00:21:52 and I bought just two dozen Masters of the Universe Cups and brought them back to the restaurant. And so when the Mattel people came in, we served them their drinks in these He-Man Masters of the Universe Cups. And they thought it was the funniest thing. And they just said, oh my gosh, you know what? Who did this? So I just walked over the table and I said, oh, it was me.

Starting point is 00:22:12 I'm a marketing student at the University of Arizona. And they said, this is great. You know, we're doing, we're here for this convention. You should come on by. And so I stopped by their convention and got to know some of their marketing people. And then they ended up actually hiring me to present at Toy Fair. I got to help them present their lines. And they paid me, I think $250 a day, which was so much money to.

Starting point is 00:22:39 me at the time. And it was, you know, more money than I could imagine. Making $250 a day was crazy to me. And then they ended up hiring me as a marketing intern. I parlayed that into an internship opportunity. And I went to L.A. for the summer and worked for Mattel. What a story. I think it's such an inspiring thing to hear for people that you view every situation as an opportunity. And the fact that we are all, you know, we all have opportunities that are literally right in front of our faces, regardless of what we're currently doing. It's all on the mindset and the way that you view it.

Starting point is 00:23:18 And that's why I love doing this show to learn from people that do it, but your stories are incredible to me. Could you talk more about your viewpoint and is it just your creative mind? Is it something that you were brought up from, from your parents? Or what was it that led you to say, oh, let me go buy these cups or, oh, let me think of how many people Arnold Schwarzenegger kills in this time when watching this movies, that your mind just seems to think on another level from a creativity standpoint. Well, yeah, I think about what I can do to make this memorable for somebody.

Starting point is 00:23:55 So obviously, our most valuable resource that we have is time. And that's, you know, I always think, what can I, you know, if I can do something every day to make this day memorable for someone else, I feel like it's a good day to make this a memorable moment for somebody. And, I mean, I think about that when I do my talks now when I work as a keynote speaker. When I have people in the room, what goes through my head is, okay, all these people are sitting in front of me for the next 45 minutes or hour, however long. What am I going to do on stage today so that when they walk out of here, they say, I'm really glad I just spent the past 45 minutes listening to that. And that's how I looked at it when these people were coming to dinner. I wanted them to leave and say, this was the best dinner we ever had.

Starting point is 00:24:41 You know, I wanted Arnold Schwarzenegger to leave his talk at Goldman in San Francisco and say, that was the funniest introduction or the best, you know, meeting somebody ever set up for me or something like that. And I just feel like it's about trying to have maximum impact in the time that you are with someone. So that's just sort of the way my brain works. What am I going to do to make this memorable? And, you know, even if I'm on an expedition and people are having a tough time, I can do something funny, write a funny note in the snow. So when they get out of their tent, they see something funny in the snow, and they'll remember that. And I just think if I can just put a smile on somebody's face and that they walk away thinking, okay, I really enjoyed that, then my, you know, my work on this earth is done.

Starting point is 00:25:32 So that's just sort of the approach I take. And, you know, I am a pretty creative person. So that's always kind of worked in my favor with that. And I always just think, you know, there's a lot of smart people out there. There's a lot of hardworking people. There's a lot of ambitious people. And sometimes if you can add creativity to that mix, it can really help you stand out. I'm all about actionable, practical tips that people can write down.

Starting point is 00:26:02 or take notes on their phone when they're listening to this episode. And is there a way that if I could tease out something from those stories that you just told, a couple of those great, inspiring stories that are actionable for all people? So if you were giving advice and somebody said, Alison, like, I don't know if I'm as creative as you. I wish I was, but I don't know if I am, what are some things I could do or I could implement to think on my feet like you do to go buy those cups for the people from Mattel? or to think of the Arnold Schwarzenegger's story that's more creative than anything else. Are there things that you could, that are actionable, practical that you could give to people right now?

Starting point is 00:26:41 Well, I think what helps build creativity, surprisingly, is failure, sometimes just getting out of your comfort zone because that's when you're sort of forced to come up with ideas. So when you succeed at things, sometimes you just think, oh, okay, I did that or that was easy or that was hard. but I did it and what's next. But when you fail at something, it causes you to sit back and reflect. What went wrong? What could I have done differently? And that's kind of, I think what can spur the creative process a lot of the time is what could I have done differently?

Starting point is 00:27:17 And that's what gets the wheels turning. And so I think by trying to do things that you know are way out of your comfort zone that you know you may not succeed in, those are things, you know, when you fail, when you stumble, when you fall, I think those things really do help you become a more creative person because they force you to think about solving problems differently. And I think that just makes your brain work differently. It reminds me a chapter six year book called it's titled, in that part of the book, it's called Coming Up Short, How You Can Make the Most of Weaknesses.

Starting point is 00:27:53 Are there examples you could share when you failed and you've learned from it? Yeah, you know, that's probably, I would say the, chapter of that that chapter six coming up short is probably the chapter I get the most comments about because that was about my expedition to Antarctica and it was a real leadership learning moment for me because it was one of my biggest failures on an expedition and it was a situation where I trained as hard as I could possibly train. I mean, nobody's going to show up more prepared to this expedition than Allison Levine. Like I, I, I, there's no way I would not show up having trained my ass off because I'm just,

Starting point is 00:28:36 that's just who I am. You know, I'm not going to let my team down. I'm not going to let myself down. I'm going to train. I'm going to be prepared. So I show up. And what I found within, you know, a couple days of the trip was that I could not keep up with my teammates.

Starting point is 00:28:50 They were stronger. They were faster. You're dragging a 150 pound sled across Antarctica on skis. And these guys who were, you know, six foot three. 23 pounds, they could just drag 150 pounds slide a lot more quickly and a lot more efficiently than I could. And so I was, you know, I was holding the team back because I was slower and you may think, okay, so you were slower, no big deal. But in Antarctica, it's a really big deal because when people have to wait for you, they're going to become hypothermic, they risk frostbite.

Starting point is 00:29:21 It's a big deal for people to have to slow down because the only way you can really stay warm when you're out on the ice is by moving. And the fast you move, the warmer you're getting. going to be. And so I really down on myself and really, you know, physically I was exhausted and psychologically I was beating myself up because I thought, oh, I am the worst team member. I bet nobody wants me here. I bet they wish they'd never agreed to let me be part of this expedition. But you're in Antarctica. There's no going home. You're out in the middle of the ice and you can't just, you know, you can't quit. And so it was, I say, emotionally and psychologically very, very, hard for me to know I was that person that was dragging the team down. Well, you know, long story

Starting point is 00:30:07 short, I don't want to like ruin the chapter in the book for everybody, but I ended up like figuring out a way my, my teammates had to take weight out of my sled in order to allow me to keep up with them. They did it in a very creative way that let me keep my pride intact. Basically, our team captain pretended like I had more weight in my sled than everybody else did when I didn't. He was like, Allison, like, you've got the heaviest sled. This is crazy. Like, we got to take some weight out of this sled. We got to make it more even. I mean, this is insane. You know, I'm going to take your fuel canisters. George is going to take some of your food out of your sled. Like, we got to even this up. Like, there's no reason why you should be carrying so much more than everybody. And I knew what he was doing.

Starting point is 00:30:48 I knew he was totally BSing that I didn't have more weight. But he was trying to help me out in a way that let me keep my pride intact. And that signaled to me that I was important part of the team. that they wanted me to succeed. And that was so huge for me. And so immediately I started thinking, okay, I'm never going to be as physically strong as these guys, but I got to find a way to contribute. You know, what can I do? What am I good at? And what I observed was that these taller guys were wrenching their backs every night as they were digging out these snow shelters. So you have to, you have to dig up this snow, snow and ice blocks, and put it around your tent to build a barricade around your tent to protect it from the elements in Antarctica. And you do that every night after you

Starting point is 00:31:33 skied for 15 hours and you're exhausted and you just want to fall into your tent and go to bed. You've got to build a snow shelter and shovel snow. And I noticed these tall guys really wrenching their back trying to use a short snow shovel. So of course, I'm shorter to the ground and I figured out I could use that short shovel more easily than the tall guy. So I immediately said, you know, as soon as I realized, oh my God, I can be the snow shoveler. And that's how I can contribute. And so I said, hey, you guys, can I shovel the snow barricade around your tent? And they said, you want to do what? And I said, oh, I want to shovel the snow, you know, make the barricade around your tent. And they said, why do you want to do that? And I said, I, because I love to shovel snow. And Eric, our team leader said, what? Like, you love to

Starting point is 00:32:19 shovel snow. I said, yes, I grew up into Phoenix and I never got to shovel snow. So it's a treat for me. I love it. You know, and I grabbed the shovel and I pretended like I loved shoveling snow, even though I hated it. And I made that snow barricade around their tent every night because that was something I could do. As a shorter person, I did not have to wrench my back to use a short shovel. And all of a sudden I thought, okay, what I saw as a liability is now a distinct advantage, the fact that I am shorter, I can use the snow shovel more efficiently. And so I became the snow shoveler. And that's just how you have to think. Instead of hammering yourself or hammering other people thinking you've got to overcome these weaknesses, it's important for leaders to get

Starting point is 00:33:06 creative and think about how to compensate for a weakness, not overcome it, but compensate for it. I love that. I assume some of these are part of your, some of these stories are part of your keynote speeches. I'd love to learn about how you got into the business of giving, of going out and sharing your story with thousands of people. So what led to that specific moment where you said, okay, I'm going to get up and start sharing my story and actually make a living doing this as well? Funny you should ask, because that's one of these other interesting, you know, story within a story. within a story. I think I've heard it, but yeah, go ahead.

Starting point is 00:33:46 So there were a couple of funny things that happened. First is that I was after, so I was the team captain for the first American women's Mount Everest Expedition in 2002. And we missed the summit by just a couple hundred feet in bad weather, but got back from that expedition. And we had a lot of media coverage, 450 media outlets cover the trip because we were the first American women's Everest expedition. And I was receiving this award from the Anaheim Angels during their spring training.

Starting point is 00:34:13 and I had to get up. It was this courage in sports award. And I got up to get this award from the Angels. And I think they were California Angels at the time. I remember what the name was. They've changed it so many times. But I got up to give us award. And Lynn Swan, who I know, you know, the former football player was the emcee for the event.

Starting point is 00:34:35 And I didn't really have a speech prepared. So I just sort of had to wing it. And it ended up being this funny speech, this funny acceptance speech. came up to me afterward and said, okay, that was one of the funniest acceptance speeches I've ever heard. What do you do for a living? And I said, oh, I work in finance. And he said, do you like it? And I said, well, no, I don't like it at all. I said, I'm not very good at it. He said, you could make a living as a speaker. And I said, what are you talking about? And he said, yeah, I thought, don't you have to be a famous person? You've got to be Lynn Swan to make a living

Starting point is 00:35:07 as a speaker. You know, somebody, a famous athlete, a professional athlete, an Olympic athlete. And he said, no, you just have to be able to connect well with an audience and deliver a compelling message in a way that, you know, resonates with people. And he said, I saw you do that tonight. You could totally do that. So he planted the seed. And I thought, well, maybe I could do that. So I started calling me speakers, and nobody would talk to me. Nobody would give me the time of day. Oh, we have enough speakers. We have adventure speakers. We have Everest speakers. We have leadership speakers. Whatever you're selling, we have it. We have too many of them. And nobody would really pay attention to me. And there was one Speakers Bureau in Arlington, Virginia, Kepler Speakers, that said, I was calling bureau saying, can I come in? Can I meet with you? And they were the only one that basically said, sure, you know, come on in. And so I went in there and I'm so excited. Finally, a speaker's bureau is going to talk to me. And I gave them my pitch. And they said, you know, we think we could do some business with you. And I thought, oh, great. This is my big break. Right. And then I never heard from them. So six months.

Starting point is 00:36:11 months go by, I've not heard anything. Finally, they call me. And I get a call from this agent, and he says, hey, Allison, you know, my name's Gary McManus. I work for Kepler speakers. We have this opportunity for you that we think might be a good fit. And I said, oh, okay, you know, what's the story? And he said, well, first let me ask you, what are the chances you could get yourself to Vegas before, you know, 8 a.m. tomorrow morning. And I thought, what? You know, because it's already the night before, you know, the afternoon before. And I said, well, there's a 10.30 flight I could get on. I could get there by 1 a.m. And he said, great, here's the deal. He said, there's this big conference in Vegas. I think they had

Starting point is 00:36:49 five or six thousand people or something. And he said, they've had some big name speakers. He said, but tomorrow's opening keynote speaker, you know, the final speaker of the event, just canceled because she was sick. And it was, the speaker was, I don't know if you remember this, but back in the days of the apprentice, you know, the original apprentice, there was, Donald Trump had this sidekick on the show named Carolyn Kepcher. And she was this blonde-haired woman that was in the boardroom with him. And she was executive vice president of the Trump organization. So she was a legit business woman.

Starting point is 00:37:21 And so she was part of the show too. And she had just written this book, Business Lessons from The Apprentice. And she was on book tour. And this was when the show The Apprentice was huge. You know, it was getting huge ratings. And so she was supposed to do the keynote on the closing day of the conference. called in sick the day before. I guess every Speaker's Bureau in the country was trying to find a replacement. Nobody could find somebody at that late of notice. You couldn't find a famous person

Starting point is 00:37:47 at that late of notice. So I think everyone was going down their roster and Kepler speakers got to me and they thought, can you get there? And I said, yes. So no problem. I can get there. And they said, here's the name and phone number of the meeting planner, you know, that's in charge of the event, gave him a call. And so it was this guy named Jeff Hurt, who's really big. in the meeting industry. And at the time, he was, you know, a meeting planner. Now he does consulting for meeting professionals. He's got his own company, Velvet Chain, so he does really well. But Jeff Hurt was the meeting planner, and I called him. And I said, hey, my name's Allison Levine. I'm going to be replacing Carolyn for you tomorrow. Can you tell me a little bit about what

Starting point is 00:38:27 messaging you want me to focus on in my speech? And he said, I don't give a blank what you focus on in your speech. He said, I just want my audience to not be pissed off that Carolyn Kepture is a no-show. So I was like, okay. You know, and clearly, you know, they had thousands of people at this event, and it was an association meeting where people paid to attend the event. So who knows? Maybe a lot of people paid because they wanted to hear Carolyn speak. You know, they were coming to hear her, and now she's a no-show. So I got to Vegas, you know, 1 o'clock in the morning and I'm thinking, all right, I have thousands of people at Mandalay Bay Convention Center that are expecting to hear Carolyn Kepture tomorrow morning and I'm going to step on stage

Starting point is 00:39:16 and they're going to go, who the hell is this? You know, we didn't come here to hear this woman. And I thought, what am I going to do to make sure that when these people walk out of the room that they are actually happy that Carolyn Kepture was a no-show? So I stayed up the entire night. I did not go to sleep for one minute. And I built this presentation around being a clutch player and being the person who shows up for people no matter what. And so instead of getting business lessons from The Apprentice, they got business lessons from Everest.

Starting point is 00:39:56 But I photoshopped Carolyn and Donald Trump into my slides. and I would reference The Apprentice, some funny stories, and I'd have your fired video, you know, like Donald Trump was standing on top of the mountain saying you're fired, and I talked about how come hell or high water, if you commit to something, you show up. Like, if you want to keep your clients, like you got to be the person who shows up no matter what, even if you feel like puking. And I'd be like, right, Carolyn, you know, and I'd reference Carolyn. And then everybody would start laughing.

Starting point is 00:40:29 And I ended up getting a standing ovation. and I was apparently the highest rated speaker for the entire conference. And afterward, Jeff Hurt came up to me and he said, okay, who are you? And he said, when did you put that presentation together? And I said, I stayed up the whole night. I haven't gone to sleep yet. I said, I worked on it all night. And he said, I can't believe you stayed up the whole night and did that.

Starting point is 00:40:53 I said, well, of course, you were counting on me. You know, you had people in this room that I owed that. I owed it to the thousands of people who were showing up to do that. And he said, okay, you know, who are you? No offense, but I've never heard of you before. And I said, well, no one's ever heard of me. I'm not anybody, you know, you would have heard of. And I said, you know, I've been trying to break into this business for over a year

Starting point is 00:41:17 and I can't get any bureaus to talk to me. And he said, I am going to call every Speaker's Bureau in the country tomorrow and tell them what you did here today. And he said, I book more. speakers and any meeting planner you know. And he said, that's the least I can do. And he got on the phone and he called every major speakers bureau. And then my phone was ringing off the hook. Wow. Yeah. Was that your first talk? It was like my first talk in front of a big audience. Like I'd done like little, you know, talks at work and stuff before. But that was really what, you know, like for my own company. Well, usually, usually when you hear the stories about people's first talks, they're horrendous. They're really, bad. What was the difference between you being great world-class your very first time? I mean,

Starting point is 00:42:05 what's your approach that allowed you to do that? Well, it just, I think it just went back to thinking, this isn't about me. This is about the audience. And they're giving me an hour of their time. You know, they're actually, and they don't want, and I thought they're not giving it to me. They're giving it to Carolyn, and she's not even here. I said, so I really got to make sure that in exchange for this hour, I give them something that makes them feel like they were glad they spent that hour with me. So I think if you just remember, it's not about you. It's about everybody else in the room. And what are you going to do for them? And so that's just what I thought about, all these people that paid this money to hear Carolyn and she's not here, I better frickin' deliver something that's really going to strike a cord

Starting point is 00:42:53 with them. And so Jeff Hurt made the phone calls for me. Now I do over 100 speeches a year. And I Coincidentally, I work with Kepler speakers exclusively now. They're the Bureau that represents me. They were the ones that first gave me a shot. And so now I've been there, actually, their most frequently booked speaker for six straight years. Wow. Are you allowed to share the ballpark of what you charge per speech? Yeah, I mean, you could look it up online if you wanted to anyway, but it's $25,000 for a keynote.

Starting point is 00:43:23 So 25K for an hour keynote. And what is the preparation like for those now? Or do you do, are they tailored based on the audience? Do you have a base speech that you go with or are there a couple different ones? What's the, what's that process like? So what I do is I have the client fill out a questionnaire that tells me, you know, brief description of the audience, what they want to accomplish with the meeting. What if there's any particular, if there's a theme of the meeting, if there's something they want me to focus on.

Starting point is 00:43:54 and what do you want the audience to walk away with? They literally can fill out this questionnaire in five minutes or less, and that gives me enough to go on as far as how to tailor this presentation. So I get online, I look up their website, I research their industry, and then based on them saying, hey, I want the audience to walk away with A, B, and C, I can craft a presentation that's going to speak to that. So they're all different. They're not necessarily, there's not like the exact same message you're tailoring it

Starting point is 00:44:19 based on what they want. Thinking, again, of the audience? Yeah, it's really based on what each client tells me, but the funny thing is, is that usually they'll say, oh, well, our situation is very unique because we're in a very competitive space. I'm like, yeah, that's unique. And, you know, we, we are, we're in a very fast-paced environment. Yeah, that's unique. You know, we and like everything they tell me, I'm like, that's the same stuff that every client says, you know, so I know that, like, usually what they tell me isn't going to, like, usually,

Starting point is 00:44:59 what they tell me usually isn't that unique. So I try to find something, you know, I do my own digging and try to find something. You know, some little story, maybe it's something from the history of the company and what, you know, the basics of, like, what it was founded on or something, like a funny quote from one of their executives or all just, like, Photoshop, you know, when I ended up photoshopping Donald Trump and Carolyn into my Everest, photos that one time, like now I Photoshop, you know, the CEO or a well-known person from their company into my slides. So they see that and they always laugh. And, you know, the thing is I need, you know, the presentation has a lot of humor in it. And they always, you know, it's always funny,

Starting point is 00:45:38 but that's not enough for me. I don't just want the laughter. I want them to walk out, having learned something and feeling like that was time well spent and that they're going to do things differently. And, you know, like I said, a lot of it goes back to that messaging about you don't, like, You don't have to be the best, fastest, strongest. You know, I talk about that all the time. You have to be, like I mentioned, failure tolerance. Like, you have to be more failure tolerance. And I talk about that, too, because type A people are so hell-bent on achieving success all the time.

Starting point is 00:46:07 And a lack of failure tolerance really stifles progress and innovation and prevents people from taking risks. So that's what I try to get audiences to realize is that you've got to allow yourself to fail. I mean, look, being on a super-high-profile expedition, to Everest in 2002 and then missing the top by a couple hundred feet. You know, you're all over the news before the expedition. CNN's doing live updates from the mountain. You miss the top by a couple hundred feet. And now you're the butt of Jay Leno's jokes in his opening monologue.

Starting point is 00:46:39 You know, so, out, you know, out. Yeah. You know, then you've got to go back on the Today show. And Ann Curry's like, welcome back. Oh, you know, so sorry. You're like, oh, you know. You know, gosh, getting that close to the top and not making that. You know, how does that make you feel?

Starting point is 00:46:58 Like a loser, Ann Curry. You know, how do you think it makes me feel? So, you know, just having to sort of deal with that, you know, I always like to tell people it's about resilience and failure tolerance and the stuff that you don't like, the stuff that you don't like, the stuff that makes you uncomfortable, that's the stuff that helps you become more creative. Man, this is so good. I love it. I got to talk to you for hours. By the way, do you still have that deck, the PowerPoint or keynote deck that you put together for your very first presentation? I think I do still have it.

Starting point is 00:47:38 Is there a way I could see it? Just a personal question. I love to. Maybe we can email after the fact. I just think it, I love the beginnings of things, the origin, the way things get started and then looking at the progress. So I know that might be a weird question, but I'm fascinated with that aspect of people who have sustained excellence, as I mentioned, the beginning of our conversation, who have achieved high levels of success as you have to see, okay, what was it like at the beginning? What was it like at the start for Allison Levine when somebody said, I need you here in Las Vegas tomorrow by 8 o'clock, and you're going to give a speech in front of 6,000 people.

Starting point is 00:48:16 What do you say? And you say, I'm going to stay up all night. and I'm going to crush this thing. And it's going to be the one opportunity I get, and you'll see what I do with it. And that type of stuff inspires me so much. And I know it does for the people listening as well, because I get the emails from people talking about this.

Starting point is 00:48:33 And so that's why I just, I know it might be a weird request, but I love. No, because that's exactly what I'm saying. I was like, this might be my only shot. Yeah. This might be the only time I ever get to get, I ever get to be on a stage delivering a keynote.

Starting point is 00:48:46 This might be my only one ever. So what am I going to do? do to make it memorable? What am I going to do to stand out? You know, and they, like, they had a lot of, like, I think they had Cal Ripkin, you know, who was like a $50,000 speaker at the time, maybe $60,000. They had some big names, like some famous athletes and some big names. And, you know, Carolyn Keptzer at the time with that apprentice, you know, back then, this was like, you know, in the mid-2000s, I think it was like 2006 or something. The show The Apprentice was really big. So, So they had only big names, you know, only recognizable names.

Starting point is 00:49:23 And I thought, all right, like, what am I going to do so that they remember Allison Levine over Cal Ripkin or Carolyn Kepcher? And the funniest, the funniest email I got, though, from Jeff Hurt, the meeting planner. Like, he shared a lot of the comments with me where people were saying, I didn't miss Carolyn at all. You know, blah, blah, blah. The funniest comment was actually a negative comment to the organization. And this guy emailed Jeff Hurt and said, shame on you for not being up front with us. Clearly, Carolyn Kepture canceled a long time ago because there's no way that Allison could have put that together overnight. Oh, that's awesome.

Starting point is 00:50:07 Because literally, like, they got up on stage and they were like, okay, like, we know you're expecting Carolyn Kepture, but we're really sorry. She just called in sick last night. So we've got Allison Levine here. And the guy didn't buy it. He's like, there's no way that you just found out last night that Carolyn. He's like, Allison didn't just put that presentation together. And I did. And we were laughing about it.

Starting point is 00:50:28 I was like, that's actually the negative comments actually the best one. I love it. That's so good. Just an incredible story. I got one more question for you, Allison. And it's all around. We mentioned this, you know, prior to recording a little bit. but the fact of what the show is all about leadership and learning and being a constant learner,

Starting point is 00:50:51 studying the art and science behind this fascinating topic. The fact that leadership is not something you're necessarily born with, but it can be learned through effort, through focused work, through caring, through consciously thinking about it and studying and learning from other people to kind of develop your own form of leadership. And I'd love to hear from you, when you hear the phrase learning, leader, what's the first thing you think of? The first thing I think of, actually, well, I picture mountains in my mind because that's

Starting point is 00:51:25 what I do, right? That's what I love, is going out to these big peaks and learning. And people will say to me, oh, now that you, you know, you conquered Mount Everest because I went back to Mount Everest in 2010 and made it to top and they say, are you done? Is that it? And that's why, to me, mountains represent leadership because I'm never done climbing. It doesn't matter that I climbed Mount Everest. There, you know, there's always going to be another mountain for me. And I, when I think about leadership, I think about this climbing because I think, okay, I know I did my absolute best when I stood on the summit of Mount Everest on, you know, May 24th of 2010. But I also know that because there will always be more mountains in my future,

Starting point is 00:52:05 that tomorrow I have to be even better. And that's what I think about on these mountains. And that's the way I think about leadership too is no matter what you did today as a leader, there's another leadership challenge tomorrow. And you've got to be even better each time. Each time you think you've done your absolute best, remember that tomorrow you have to be better. And that's kind of the way I look at leadership. Again, it's awesome. I love this, Allison. I definitely want to continue talking with you as we both progress. I'm just fascinated by your story and everything that you stand for. In the meantime, where can everyone go to find you online? Okay, online, well, my website is Allison Levine.com.

Starting point is 00:52:47 I'm on social media on Twitter, Levine underscore Allison. And I'm on Instagram too at Levine underscore Allison. I suck at Facebook. I'm trying to get better at it. I do not like social media. I'm really working on it. I'm trying to get better. I'm trying to embrace it.

Starting point is 00:53:05 It's still a struggle for me. So bear with me. Well, I mean, if you're a racket on $2 million a year on speeches alone, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. Most people are using social media to help with that, but you're kind of doing it with that. Hey, well, Kepler Speakers gets a good cut of that. That's true. Sorry. And they deserve it. They deserve it. Absolutely. No. This is so good. Again, like I said, I'll make sure all that's linked up on the show notes as well on learningleader.com. So people can can link out to both your book, you know, on the edge, the art of high impact leadership, which is phenomenal.

Starting point is 00:53:35 People should absolutely read it and go check out the great work that you're doing online as well. Thank you, and I hope you'll have me back on the show again in the future. I definitely will if you decide to write another book, if you want to promote it, or if we just want to chat again, I'd love to keep talking with it because this has been an incredible one. I loved it. Me too. Thank you so much. All right.

Starting point is 00:53:57 Thanks so much, Allison. Talk soon. All right. Take care. Bye. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leadershow.com for more information. and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you.

Starting point is 00:54:18 You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 098: Alison Levine – Climbing Everest & Impressing Arnold Schwarzenegger

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