The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 099: Clay Hebert - How You Should Always Introduce Yourself

Episode Date: February 18, 2016

Episode 099: Clay Hebert - How You Should Always Introduce Yourself Clay Hebert is a giving leader who has experienced immense success in multiple life categories.   He has personally helped me in many ways along this podcasting journey.  I particularly enjoyed the part of our conversation where we riffed on his famous “6 Word Introduction.”  I put Clay on the spot to help me answer the question (that we all get daily), “What do you do?”  I think you’ll find a lot of use about of this live one on one workshop style conversation and it certainly is applicable to your life. Clay Hebert is a marketing strategist and the founder of Crowdfunding Hacks, where he helps entrepreneurs and creatives fund their dreams. As one of the world’s leading crowdfunding experts, Clay has helped over 150 entrepreneurs raise over $50 million on popular crowdfunding platforms Kickstarter and Indiegogo. A frequent keynote speaker, Clay engages audiences around the globe on innovation, creativity, crowdfunding, marketing, entrepreneurship and the future of work. Clay has trained senior leaders at Fortune 500 organizations and his corporate speaking clients have included Accenture, Pfizer, Zappos and some of the top universities and nonprofits in the world and he advises corporations, executives and startups on strategy, marketing, innovation and culture independently and through Clarity.fm, Exobase and the First Growth Venture Network. Clay has written for The Washington Post, Forbes and The Next Web and his work has been featured in The New York Times, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, Lifehacker and The Financial Post. He is a regular guest on FOX Business. Episode 099: Clay Hebert - How You Should Always Introduce Yourself Subscribe on iTunes  or Stitcher Radio The Learning Leader Show “What’s Important But Not Urgent?  Let’s Design Your Perfect Day.” In This Episode, You Will Learn: Self-awareness (Being Honest about what they don’t know), curiosity, and saying “I don’t know” are the qualities of people who have achieved high levels of success How to understand and focus on you “important but not urgent” time Design your perfect day… Really take time to think about it The power of “Purple Cow” and Seth Godin Breaking PowerPoint rules – Get rid of all the words! It should be a visual presentation Answering the question, “What do you do?” Clay’s 6 word response… Read Greg McKeown’s book: Essentialism- The Disciplined Pursuit Of Less Living with Jason Zook in Southern California and the positive effect it can have living with creative people Surrounding yourself with people a level up from you – Accelerating your ideas Seth Godin’s Alt MBA and the power of it The power of waking up every day with a child’s mind  “I believe everyone can be a leader and I show them how.” Continue Learning: Go To Clay website: ClayHebert.com Go To: HowToIntro.com Follow Clay on Twitter: @clayhebert You may also like these episodes: Episode 001: How To Become A Master Connector With Jayson Gaignard From MasterMind Talks Episode 085: Jessica Lahey – Why Your Parenting Style Is Wrong Episode 004: How Todd Wagner (and Mark Cuban) Sold Broadcast.com To Yahoo! For $5.7 Billion Episode 010: Shane Snow – How To Accelerate Success Using Smart Cuts Did you enjoy the podcast? This was a jam packed episode full of great content.  Clay Hebert is leader who is constantly learning in order to help us all live a better life. Who do you know that needs to hear this?  Send them to The Learning Leader Show! Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell   Bio From Clay Hebert  Clay Hebert is a marketing strategist and the founder of Crowdfunding Hacks, where he helps entrepreneurs and creatives fund their dreams. As one of the world’s leading crowdfunding experts, Clay has helped over 150 entrepreneurs raise over $50 million on popular crowdfunding platforms Kickstarter and Indiegogo. A frequent keynote speaker, Clay engages audiences around the globe on innovation, creativity, crowdfunding, marketing, entrepreneurship and the future of work. Clay has trained senior leaders at Fortune 500 organizations and his corporate speaking clients have included Accenture, Pfizer, Zappos and some of the top universities and nonprofits in the world and he advises corporations, executives and startups on strategy, marketing, innovation and culture independently and through Clarity.fm, Exobase and the First Growth Venture Network. Clay has written for The Washington Post, Forbes and The Next Web and his work has been featured in The New York Times, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, Lifehacker and The Financial Post. He is a regular guest on FOX Business. After a decade solving complex problems for global clients at Accenture, the world’s largest consulting firm, Clay left corporate America and attended the most selective and unique MBA program in the country, a six month journey working with Seth Godin and eight other amazing people. Clay is active on Twitter at @clayhebert. He teaches crowdfunding at CrowdfundingHacks.com and writes about marketing, innovation and the future of work on his own blog at ClayHebert.com.

I implore people to just open a clean sheet of paper, do it right now, do it after this podcast, and just write down and say, what does a great day, week, and month look like? And just plan it out. And then what can you do every day to help your existing day be a little bit more like your perfect day? And I think, you know, there's a million books on self-help and a million things out there. But I really think that when you talk about happiness, it's not the seven, eight figures in your bank account. It's not this. It's if you get up every day and you do what you want to do, which is maybe you guys,

go to yoga, read a book, have some really great coffee, you know, jump on the trampoline, record a podcast, and write a blog post, whatever your perfect day is, assuming you have to do something, I think there's no better work than waking up every day and trying to get your current day to look more like your perfect day. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success.

You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey guys, before we get to this great conversation, I want to let you know that this episode was brought to you by Mizan and Maine. You'll probably remember from episode 64, I spoke with a CEO of Mizan-Mindamain, Kevin Lavelle, and we promised to continue that dialogue as we both progressed on our journeys. And we certainly have, and we formed a partnership. And Kevin and his great companies and support and people that he works,

with have agreed to sponsor my podcast. But for me, I'm very picky when it comes to this. I only wanted to work with people who I truly believed in their products. So this is not just a sponsor to me. This is an endorsement. I absolutely believe in everything that Kevin and his company stands for. I love who they partner with, whether it's Tony Shea's Vegas Tech Fund or the Loan Survivor, Marcus LaTrell's Fund, or Chris Kyle Frog Foundation. I love that. But I also, most importantly, love the product. Their shirts are my absolute favorite shirts. They feel very similar to the clothes that I wear when I go and work out. And I didn't really believe that was possible until I tried one. But the four-way stretch fabric is literally like nothing I've ever felt before. And so originally I

bought one just to try them out to see if this is really true. A button-down shirt that looks great with a suit or in business casual. I'm like, there's no way this thing is going to feel like people tell me it will. Well, it felt even better than that. And so after I bought that first shirt, I ended up buying six more shirts and two Henleys. And so we've set up a deal for you guys to go to Ryan.misen and mane.com. So that's Ryan.misen and mane.com. Pick your favorite shirts. I love the button downs. You'll see on that site my favorite shirts. And when you're checking out, use the code Ryan Hawk to get free shipping if you're only buying one shirt. If you happen to want to buy three button downs like I've done a couple times.

Use the code Ryan Hawk 3 and you'll get $50 off. Again, I love Miz and Maine. I love everything they stand for. And I promise when you try the search, you will too. Hey and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Got a big time guest tonight on the show. It's Clay A Bear.

Clay worked for a decade at Accenture as a strategy consultant. He left the job in 2009 to go. to Seth Godin's Alt MBA school for six months in New York City. He's now known as the guy who helps entrepreneurs fund their dreams. He's helped over 150 entrepreneurs raise over $50 million on crowdfunding platforms like Kickstarter and Indie Go-Go. Been wanting to have this conversation for quite some time. So glad we had it.

A few of the things we got into. Why Clay left his great job at Accenture and how Seth Godin's book, Purple Cow, had such an impact on him that it created the energy and momentum for him to lead. And then his six word response to the question that all of us probably get every single day, which is, so what do you do? Clay describes how we all can be more concise and more interesting in that response. We even workshopped it a little bit for him to personally help me. And I know it could help all of you as well.

I'm positive you will love that part of this episode. And then focusing on getting 1% better every single day. and the specific tactics around doing that. Ladies and gentlemen, I am so excited for this one with Clay A Bear. Clay, so excited to have you here, man. So first of all, thank you for being here. Thank you, Ryan. I'm excited to be here.

Good, good. I got a quick question to get us rolling, and that's around people who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time. I'm curious from your perspective. What are some of the common characteristics that those people all seem to share? Sure, absolutely. I think self-awareness is key. I think people who can see what they know but are very honest about what they don't know.

I think you see a lot of egos and personalities in the media who have essentially zero self-awareness and all the high performers and high achievers that I've been around, there's a self-awareness there and they know the 6% of things that they're good at and they really understand the 94% that they don't. And they know how to fill in the 94% whether that's through learning or listening to podcast. podcasts or hiring people or outsourcing or building a team that helps fill in their strength. So I think, you know, self-awareness and persuadability, being willing to, those two kind of go hand in hand, being willing to have your mind changed. You know, there's a great story in my buddy Al's new book about Admiral William McCraven,

who's the guy who went to, led the mission that got Osama bin Laden. And he's the opposite of what you would think, a military leader as he's actually not type A, my way, the highway, G.I. Joe sort of thing. He's actually very persuadable, and Obama would challenge him on certain aspects, and he would say, you know what? I don't really know. I'm going to go figure that out or learn that. So, yeah, self-awareness, a desire to learn, curiosity. And I think all those things go hand in hand. I think if you're curious, sort of by definition, you're saying, I don't know everything. So, yeah. But that said, you know, all leaders are a little bit different. You look at Sarah Blakely from Spanx is very different than Steve Jobs is very different than all these other high performers.

I think sometimes we try to copy the tactics too much, but I think your question is good because it gets more to the mindset. If you look at like, you know, the right camera will not make you Ansel Adams, right? Ansel Adams took pictures with a box that he, you know, slid something and the light came in and he made amazing photographs that way. and I think people often want to copy the tactic. Like if I just use the right pen, then I'll be able to draw like Austin Cleon. In fact, it's not that obviously it's nothing to do with the pen. Or if they ride the right bicycle, you know, they'll ride like Lance Armstrong or wear the shoes. They'll, you know, sold a lot of Nikes to get people to believe that if they put on the right,

they'll jump a little higher, run a little faster like Mike. But I think it's more about, and that's why I think your question is a great one is, what are the characteristics, right? Not the tactics, not the strategies, but they'll jump a little. characteristics and I think self-awareness, creativity, and curiosity. You know, one of the things, and you hinted at this with McRaven, I love seeing leaders. I believe the most secure leaders and people who are highest performing, there's a simple phrase that they're willing to say that insecure leaders are not.

And that phrase is, I don't know. And I love it when I can come in contact with people who are willing to say, I don't know. I'm not sure. Let me get back to you on that. Because you'll find the insecure ones that will never use that phrase. They'll never say that. They're always going to either say they know or act like they know when that could be so destructive to any whatever team you're leading. And it's so important that leaders, I think, are humble enough and secure enough in themselves to say, I'm not really sure. Let me get back to you. Let me meet up with my team to make sure I can figure out what it is, is the right move here or the right answer.

I think you're so right on that, and I think you hit on such an important point. I want to go just a little bit deeper. There's an amazing book that came out last year called Essentialism by Greg McKeown. And the entire book is, you know, half of us would think in 2015, do we really need an entire book where the main topic is we should focus on one thing. But obviously, if you look around our culture and our society, we obviously need. a book that tells us to stop and focus. One of my favorite bits in that book was he gave you a bunch of different ways to say no,

everything from doing research and collecting ways that, you know, Mark Twain would decline dinner invitations and things like that all the way up to existing things. And I've actually used that to build out a way because I'm like you. I love to talk to people. I love to learn. I love to go down different rabbit holes. But, you know, the hard work is often not done in the rabbit holes and the research. and the deep work, as Cal Newport would call it.

And so I need to find ways to, you know, I think we all do, and that's a big part of Greg's book, find ways to say no to non-essential things. And so inspired by the book, I put together kind of a set of snippets of different ways to decline invitations politely. Because when you read, it's funny, because this concept of being invited to do too many things, being invited to come speak at a friend's conference or help a nonprofit or whatever all these things are. You know, you want to say yes to a whole bunch of them. I think Greg's book gives us different ways to say no. I think you just made a really, really important point of different ways to say, I don't know. And maybe that's a blog post or maybe that's something. But you just in continuing your sentence, you rattled off a few of them, which is, I'm not sure.

I'm going to check with my team. I'm going to go research the data. You know, I think the concept of giving somebody, you know, 50 or 100 ways to say, I don't know is almost a permission slip. that makes it easier because our culture sort of teaches us that just blurting out, I don't know, you know, makes us look weak or make, but I think you make a really good point that the best leaders actually do that. So maybe there's something about figuring out, you know, a hundred different ways to say, I don't know, and be a better leader.

I love it, trying to get practical with it. What are, you know, Greg McKeon's interesting. So I just booked him, and I think we're doing it in about a month. Oh, cool. So it'll come out. I don't know. It'll be six weeks from now. But I'm excited.

to do that one because I'm a fan of that type of work I've gotten into recently of just really in organizing your day and doing, you know, you look at the quadrant. So what are urgent things versus important things and making sure you block out time every day to spend time in the quadrant that is not urgent but important. And you have to, you have to be there in order to learn to learn to grow. to study, to literally block it out on your calendar to even if it's just blank and to say, this is the not urgent but important time of my day. And I have to do it every single day.

I believe you do. You have to from a habitual standpoint to develop those habits that you've got to spend time in that mode. And I certainly try really hard to do that too. Yeah, I think one of the most under-heralded productivity and really life-changing tools is just simply Google Calendar, which is. and I work with entrepreneurs and advise sort of corporations and startups on this stuff, which is they're stuck, they don't know what they should focus on, et cetera.

And I work on this myself. I just say, okay, let's design your perfect day. And it's not sitting at the beach and drinking margaritas because that's always cool for about a week. And then anyone who's got the ability to achieve that is going to want to go back and make more art and create more things and do work that matters. And so I say, assume you have to get up and work tomorrow, you know, what would you want to do? What does a perfect day look like?

Is it that you're on the Learning Leader podcast talking with Ryan? Is that you're talking? Is that you're, you know, speaking? I'll give you two drastically different examples. I know you had Seth on the program recently. Seth Godin is an amazing public speaker, and a lot of companies want him to speak, and he could speak all day, every day.

But he loves to have dinner with his wife and be home, you know, when his kids are home and things like that. And so he doesn't take every random gig in Des Moines, Iowa, even though they're going to pay him a whole lot of money to come do it. So his perfect day or a week is, you know, maybe it's speaking once locally and traveling for a gig once every two weeks or three weeks. Tom Peters, on the other hand, similar sort of business luminary. Tom Peters speaks all over the world all the time. He's whatever, 70 years old, and he probably has, you know, a gig every day in a different city, and he's just constantly on the plane.

Two very similar types of people with very different sort of perfect days, right? And so I implore people to just open a clean sheet of paper, do it right now, do it after this, podcast and just write down and say, what does a great day, week, and month look like? And just plan it out. And then what can you do every day to help your existing day be a little bit more like your perfect day? And I think, you know, there's a million books on self-help and a million things out there. But I really think that when you talk about happiness, it's not the seven, eight figures in your bank account, it's not this. It's if you get up every day and you do what you want to do, which is maybe you go to yoga, read a book, have some really great coffee, you know, jump on the trampoline,

a podcast and write a blog post, whatever your perfect day is, assuming you have to do something. I think there's no better work than waking up every day and trying to get your current day to look more like your perfect day. I love that exercise. I would urge people to do that as well. I think it's great. Clay, I want to dive into you and your story a little bit about your history now, if you wouldn't mind as to some of the things you've done in your past leading up to today.

Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in the Midwest in Wisconsin. I was a Green Day Packers fan. brother played linebacker. So big fan. And I went to business school. I thought I was going to be business in Japanese. I studied Japanese in high school. Had the greatest, one of my two greatest teachers was my Japanese teacher. And I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do with business. I mean, 15, 16 years old, don't really have a clue. But I thought I was going to be the guy with the suit and the briefcase bopping back and forth between America and Japan doing some sort of

Japanese international business kind of thing. My teacher, my Japanese teacher in college was not, was pretty much the worst teacher I ever had, so I kind of phased out the Japanese thing. Stayed on with the business, started working for the largest consulting firm in the world, Accenture. And I stayed, I think I stayed too long, but, you know, everything happens for a reason and the path brought me here. But I was there 10 years going to different sort of Fortune 500 big companies.

And in 2003, which was about... pretty close to halfway through my 10 years there. I was there 99 to 2009. I was going through the O'Hare Airport and they were calling my name and I wanted another book to read on that leg of my flight because there weren't podcasts in 2003. And so I just ran into Hudson books in the bookstore in O'Hare and grabbed the strange-looking purple book and it was Purple Cowden by Seth Godin, which really just kind of blew my mind open sort of Tarantino style and it made me realize that there was a completely different way to think about business and marketing. And so I felt, and then I went home and went down the rabbit hole and subscribed to his blog and bought all the rest of the books.

And I thought I'd found this great sort of pool of interesting thinking and innovation. And I tried for four or five years somewhat unsuccessfully to bring that inside of Accenture. And so it was 2008, I was trying to transition from being a management consultant to working in kind of marketing, creativity, entrepreneurship, the world that we're in now. and Accenture wasn't really interested in encouraging that because it's nothing against them, their entire company, the mothership with 400,000 people obviously works better when people are sort of interchangeable and I can pull Ryan off of the project in Chicago and put him on the project in Miami. And so at the end of 2008, Seth blogged about an opportunity to study with him, and that was just

a really unique opportunity. I'd finally gotten to San Diego where I'd always wanted to live where I live again now. And this opportunity came along, so I applied. I was fortunate and I got in and moved to New York and I was there for seven years and then recently moved back to San Diego in about January of 2012. The program was six months long and then I started kind of put a shingle out and started helping companies and individuals with understanding marketing and digital media and storytelling and I got to do all the marketing stuff that I wanted to do at Accenture. And then in about January of 2012 I was in Hawaii and the phone rang and it was a friend

of a former client and she was struggling. She had a Kickstarter project. that was live and it was struggling because she was a filmmaker, not a marketer. And we were able to get her project in front of the right people and save it in the last couple weeks. And in January of 2012, there weren't a whole lot of sort of crowdfunding experts or consultants. And so I explored that a little bit more. And what I realized is I knew marketing and good crowdfunding is good marketing. And here's this new sort of industry of crowdfunding that was really taking off.

And so I kind of helped a couple more friends. and then five projects become 10, and that's kind of obviously how these things go. And, yeah, so I've been focusing primarily on crowdfunding for about the last few years, speak and do workshops and have an online course and things like that. So it's been a lot of fun. It's different helping individuals and happy to tell any stories of some of the more interesting sort of projects we've worked on, but it's completely different to help a mom in Baltimore launch her completely new line of, like, compression socks for feet. emails that look cool rather than helping a massive Fortune 500 company with a Twitter campaign and maybe move the needle a little bit.

You know, the bigger the company, the less impact you might see from a particular campaign because there's a million things going on. That's totally different than helping an entrepreneur or a creative launch their dream to the world, which is, which gives me a lot of pleasure. So you've helped over 150 entrepreneurs and creatives raise over 50 million bucks on crowdfunding platforms. like Kickstarter and Indigo go. It's incredible to go get your stats and the things that you've done. I, you know, was preparing for a time together reading, reading your story, specifically the moment when the Purple Cow had such an effect on you because Seth Godin has had a big effect on me. Obviously, I've written about the amount of time it's taken to get him on my podcast and how it was having him. And I love his thought process around art, you know, creating a little bit of a ruckus.

And it sounds like you did that. So I want to go back. to that moment at Accenture where you're you're kind of employing your art or you want to and maybe you're creating a little bit of a ruckus. What happened specifically at that time when you're starting to take what you learned from Seth and wanted to implement it at a big company when you're doing quite well in your career? Yeah, that's a that's a great question. There's one one story specifically that I found rather interesting because it was both my biggest win and it was also the signal that I knew I needed to leave. So through Seth, and understanding that.

He wrote a book a long time ago, a thin little book called Really Bad PowerPoint. And I kind of went down that rabbit hole because at Accenture, that's how we would present our ideas to clients and often too much to each other, right? If I was just going to, you know, email you something, the standard response would be, oh, can you send me a deck on that? It's like, why don't I have to open PowerPoint and make a poorly designed presentation just to communicate an idea to you? But I realized that that was something that, you know, I read Seth's book, really bad PowerPoint.

And then I found from there, Gar Reynolds wrote a book called Presentation. Zen and then Nancy Duarte has a firm called Duarte Design and she wrote Slideology and resonate. And so I went down, one of the rabbit holes I went down was how to present ideas because I would speak for Accenture. Before I did any public speaking on my own, I would be the guy at Accenture who would go to these pharmaceutical and medical device conferences and present our latest thinking or whatever. So I was in a group working with some Accenture partners and the senior partner, the global pharmaceutical lead, presented just on a no slide. just on a conference call with a bunch of partners and me.

And he said, guys, this is the future of Farmer from 2008 to 2011. So this was in 2007. And he read a lot of a pretty interesting story. And I sat there and took notes. And when the conference call was over at the end of the hour, I called him back. And I said, Tom, let me build your slide deck for this. I have some ideas. He said, okay, that's fine.

It was kind of one of the things I did in my role. And so I built him a slide deck that broke every rule. We were supposed to use the Accenture official template that had, you know, the different fonts and the appropriate sized fonts all the way down to 10-point font. We wonder why nobody, you know, would resonate with this at conferences. At the time, it was funny at the time, it was, Tiger Woods was our sort of a spokesperson. So we had the Tiger Woods power, nine different versions of the Tiger Woods PowerPoint

template. And I built Tom a deck that had no Tiger Woods, no bullet points, didn't even have any words on it. It just had pictures of, he was talking about the pharma patent cliff. So I took a really huge, cool picture of a cliff, and then waterfall. And then a tipped over pharmaceutical orange bottle with cash coming out and just basically found the biggest, most impactful image to represent all these points. So I sent it to him and the phone rang 10 minutes later. He's like, Clay, what the hell is this?

I can't present with this. There's no words on it. And I said, Tom, you presented on the call with all the partners with no slides at all. You just knew the story and you passionately explained it. So just layer that story, that audio over these slides and practice it. He's like, I don't know, man. and then eventually sort of, you know, convinced him to try this. So he presented, long story short, presented that at a big Oracle CRM conference.

And instead of just saying, hey, Tom, great presentation. The emails he got in response were, hey, Tom, amazing presentation. Will you come give that at Pfizer? Will you come give that at Merck? Will you come give that at these big pharma companies? So one of the small wins I had, there's a lot of beating my head against the wall and a lot of failures that we could go into. But one of the small wins was by changing the way that this guy presented, it was kind of my boss's boss at the time,

by changing the way that he presented these ideas with no words, no boring seven-point font that you can't see from the back of the room, but instead these big impactful images, it resonated with the crowd in a different way that actually created meetings and business development opportunities and millions of dollars in new business. And so this thing that he was very scared about changing, right? We're supposed to follow the rules.

We're supposed to use the Tigerwood's PowerPoint template and 10-point font and all this other stuff. actually had a chance to create a dent and change the way we did business. That same success story was actually a very big signal because then I tried to beat that drum even louder, trying to get other partners to use this and offered to build decks for other people. And despite the change, despite the positive change, nobody cared, nobody wanted to do it. There was no, you know, I tried to contact the Accenture kind of like internal branding, marketing, presentation development department.

And they weren't interested. Nobody was interested in changing anything despite this great case study I had of the impact it would have. So that was when I sort of started looking and said, you know what, even when you have a win, it was it was overrolled by the big machine. So that was also the signal I knew I needed to get out. But that was one example of hearing this different way of thinking, bringing it inside. You remind me so much that story, at least, of one of my good friends named Lance Salyers. Lance is the greatest presentation. I don't know the proper words, but putting together.

a phenomenal visual presentation, the greatest I've ever seen at using the perfect pictures and not using words, but the visuals are there. I mean, the words are what you say. He always says to me, like, if I'm putting together a speech, he's helped me put together some talks where my decks have no words or very, at least minimal words in pretty much all visuals. The deck is there to illustrate and to give a visual for different types of learners and to reinforce your point. And then your point is what you say. And like Seth would say, if you know what you're talking about and you know your content, you don't need the words up on the slide.

You just say them, right? You're just talking. And so that's when you watch Seth or I've watched your videos as well, it doesn't appear there's many nerves because you're just saying what you know and the decks are there to reinforce it. Joey Coleman at the IPO event I went to in Vegas where we're going to talk about here in a little bit. He had, you know, his slides per day. There would be two to 300 slides per day. And the slides are pretty much, from the most part, picture only on those two or 300. Because people like, 300 slides, are you kidding me? That's going to be boring. Actually, it was incredibly

entertaining because the slides didn't have words on them. So it was really enjoyable. So it kind of leads me to an interesting part of that event that I want to, Clay, and I want to talk to you about it because your name was brought up, and it was one of the things of, one of your ideas is that I thought was a really compelling part about that event. And that is when somebody asked you, hey, so what do you do? First, actually, let me just ask you that. Clay, what do you do? I help entrepreneurs fund their dreams. Okay, talk to me about the process of coming up with for all of us. So I love the answer. It elicits from the person asking the question. It makes me think. It's shorter than what anybody ever says when you ask, hey, what do you do? And we get asked that all the time. I think I

heard you say there's stats where we get asked that maybe three times a day. Because some people always, if you're at a dinner party, if you're randomly walking, if you meet a new person, hey, what do you do? If you're at a networking event, certainly. Hey, what do you do? And you respond with a specific six-word answer. And I love for you now to talk about the process for coming up with everyone who's listening's own six-word answer to the question, hey, what do you do? Yeah, absolutely happy, happy to go into it. So as with most things, it started with an abject failure. I was out here in San Diego. This was 2012 or 2013.

And I was at a conference put on by a friend of my name Jim Quick. The conference was called Superhero You, and the speakers were amazing, and the attendees were also pretty amazing. A friend of mine said, you know, you have to go to this conference. So I just trusted that person's opinion, hopped down and playing, and we went. So I'm at this conference, and on one of the breaks, you know, I gave a typical kind of 10-minute break, go to the bathroom kind of thing. And I turn around and meet this guy. So he asked me, what do I do? And I think I mumbled something about Accenture and escaping corporate America and stuff.

Godin and Kickstarter and crowdfunding and da-da-da-da-da. And looking back, I couldn't believe how sort of boring and bad it was, but that's the intro that most of us have. And I said, to him, I said, so what do you do? He said, I run a little software company. And I said, oh, I'm into that. I like startups. I'm working on a startup, what software company?

And maybe I've heard of it. And he said, oh, it's called automatic. And at that moment, I realized that I was talking to Matt Mullenwig. He had said his name was Matt, and I just hadn't seen enough pictures of Matt online and didn't really know what he looked like. Plus he had kind of longer hair at that time. And here I am, like, fumbling over my own introduction with one of my Internet heroes who created WordPress, who powers 23% of the Internet. And I was just, I kind of walked away from, you know, we wrapped up the conversation and I walked away. And I think, like, maybe skip the next session, just walking the hallway.

It reminds me that Chris Farley skit from SNL where he slaps his forehead and he's like, you're so stupid, you know, the way you said it. I felt like that. I felt like, why you just met Matt Mellonwig and you had the lamest intro. So I kind of walked around the grounds of the conference and being like, I never want to do that again. How do I fix that? How do I improve the way I introduced myself? So just probably got out of a shoot of paper. And I said, what does a good introduction sound like?

And I think eventually I did watch some movies, some things like that, like each other, like who's super smooth, right? Like a George Clooney or how would he say if someone said, what do you do? And one of the things I noticed was that the response, when someone answers something sort of in a smooth, confident way, the response is often shorter. So I'm like, okay, well, it's got to be shorter. It shouldn't be my life story from fourth grade. And over time just kind of iterated and crafted this thing.

And it became super simple. It's six words. And the magic is, I want to start. off by saying there's no magic in the number six. The six is one. It's a little bit of a marketing to sell how short it can be. So it's a catchy thing that people understand what six words is. But the point is not that the magic is six. The base formula ends up with six or close to six. It could be seven, could be eight. It could be 13. It could be four. It doesn't matter. But the base formula is when someone says, so, Ryan, what do you do? You start by saying,

I help or some version of the word help. And we'll talk about that. that. And then whoever it is you help. So if I was talking about crowdfunding or if I was at a conference of entrepreneurs, I would say I help entrepreneurs. And then whatever result you help them achieve. So I don't say successfully fund their Kickstarter or Indiegogo project, because that sounds like it's written in a bio or it's in a book. I just say I help entrepreneurs fund their dreams. And there's a whole bunch of reasons why that's more interesting like you guys saw it at the personal IPO. One, it's shorter than people expect. So it's a little like, you know, you you could picture George Clooney sort of saying something short in response.

Two, it's you can, because you know what to say, you can deliver the line. It's almost like the way you delivered is as important as the words. You can deliver it with a firm handshake and look them directly in the eye and say it. The other reason it works is because it's more interesting. And like you hinted at, it tosses the ball back to them. It's almost like you're playing verbal tennis. and you hit the ball back to them quicker than they expected it. Because when you say to someone, what do you do?

Our brains train that you're going to get the answer like I gave the first time the long-winded drawn out. And your brain automatically thinks about, okay, I've got to pick up groceries next week. I've got to record this podcast. And because you're kind of checked out, you're not really listening because most people's answers are so long and boring. And so when you just say something short, interesting, compelling, and no buzzwords. There's a couple rules that we can talk about. But one is no buzzwords. You're not supposed to respond as if it was copyrighting.

You're supposed to respond just as a human standing there in front of another human using words that you would use if you were having a beer with somebody. So that's the base. I mean, we can go in any angle. But as with most things, it started with, you know, a failure, abject failure where I really screwed up my own thing, walked away from meeting one of my Internet heroes, like, slapping my forehead and being like, why did she sound so stupid? and then just deciding that I didn't want to introduce myself that poorly ever again. Do you mind if we workshop this right now live? Absolutely.

I would love that. I love doing that. Okay. Because I'm actually struggling with this. As you were talking, I was writing down notes. I don't know, you might have been able to hear me. And I'm struggling here. And so I want to put it out there because I think everybody should try to do this exercise regardless of what you do.

And so let's specify here. This is, this is me as, let me just, how about this? I know we're just kind of riffing here. So I will just share with you, you know, and I know you've listened to some of the episodes, and so I really appreciate that. So you get a little bit of sense. But the whole purpose of my podcast, why I'm doing it, what I like to do and all that. And maybe that will help you give me some answers here.

Is that cool? Yeah. That's perfect. I love this live workshops. Okay. Cool. So obviously you know the name of the show. It's a learning leader show.

And the reason that it's that name is because I actually did an exercise of writing down things that I love. and the fact of learning, reading, constantly improving, all of that was highlighted. And then, you know, I've been in leadership positions since I was, you know, thrust into the role as a quarterback of a football team when I was, I don't know, six or seven, second grade, second grade is my first year playing. I remember that. And so at that point, you know, and everyone said, you got to be a leader, got to be a leader. And so I've just kind of studied leaders. I've looked at them.

I love the art and science of leadership. I love the fact that you're not born with that. people who listen to this show probably enjoy hearing from people who help me, who could help them potentially, learn more about leadership, learn the art and science behind it, hopefully be inspired, hopefully be educated, hopefully be entertained. And so that's really the purpose of this. And that could lead to, and it already has led to public speaking, more writing, probably eventually will be a book, but more writing, just publishing things online.

and in continuing to do great podcasts with impressive people like you. So when you hear that, does that help you help me? Yeah, yeah, it absolutely does. Because you have a passion for leadership. And I think the way, and I don't even really talk about this, but the way that you started going about this is the way that you should, which is writing down, what do you care about, what are you passionate about?

Because that's what you really want to achieve, right? I'm passionate about helping entrepreneurs fund their dreams. You're passionate about teaching leadership. So maybe we start there. The word help, the second word in the formula, because you usually respond with the word I. You don't always respond with the word I. If you're talking about, let's say your company, let's say you're an executive at HP and you're at a business function where your goal is to represent HP, you might start the sentence with we. You know, you might say, so what do you do?

And if you're not talking about your personal, if you're talking about your work. So we can talk about that later. For you, I think it's the word I. And then the word help is really just meant to be a base. So I would unpack that a little bit and say, how do you help? So you could, let's just start with help. We'll start there. I help.

And then who is it that you help? And so we're talking in the context of the podcast, right? So obviously you have lots of different types of people that listen to the podcast. But if you had your sort of customer avatar, your ideal listener, who would that be? Are they an entrepreneur? Are they an aspiring leader? Are they a business executive? And the nice thing is you don't have to worry about alienating anyone because you're going to end up with intros.

It's kind of like when Malcolm Gladwell talks about spaghetti sauces instead of spaghetti sauce, the multiplicity. When you have the simplicity of a six-word intro, you can have five different versions of it. I sort of joke. If people ask what I do, I say I help entrepreneurs fund their dreams. And then the joke is, and I think this is in the book, if I'm in Brooklyn, I say I help creatives fund their dreams. their dreams because that's right the the so you can customize it based on sort of where you're at or who you're talking to so let's just pick one aspect let's say you're at a entrepreneur conference and someone says hey I think of you know your name sounds familiar right and so what do you do

you might say I help let's just say you're in a room full of entrepreneurs I help entrepreneurs and then what do you help them achieve and I don't want I don't want to lead the witness I have some ideas but I want you to answer with the goal of this the goal of this podcast, I think I know what it is, but in your words, what result do you want to help them achieve? Well, it's more than just one word. And so that's why I think you're going to be good to help distill this. So what I hope happens, okay? I want them to be inspired to be better leaders, to think more about what they're doing on a day-to-day basis instead of just blindly following and being a lemming jumping off a cliff.

but I want to create thought. I want to create leadership. I want people to really, like I said, be inspired, educated, and entertained by when they listen. So it's a lot of different things. And that's why this is an area where I need help in. I fully admit that to say, okay, how do I distill this down to one thing? Or what are a few of my intros? Yeah, I think it's funny because I had written down, you know, one as a starting point for you.

When you first said, let's live workshop, I just grabbed a pencil and wrote one down. and if I change one word and actually use the other word you said, it's exactly what I wrote down, which is, I inspire entrepreneurs to become better leaders. And I think we can tweak that or whatever, but you said you create content to inspire them. So if you shorten that up and just say,

I inspire, because that's what you do. People that listen to your podcast are inspired. What are they inspired to do? Well, if you're in a room full of entrepreneurs, that's our next word, I inspire entrepreneurs. And again, you use the same joke. If you're in Brooklyn talking to creatives,

you might say, I inspire creatives, to become better leaders, if that's the outcome that you want to help them achieve. Now, I think we can, and I don't know how much time I spend this, I think we can riff on it even more to become a little more. I think it's the right outcome. But it's too broad? I don't think it's too broad. I think it's, yeah, actually, maybe you're right. Maybe it's a broadness thing or a specificity thing. I think it can become a more interesting thing.

The goal of this, so we'll back up a little bit. When you say this, in addition to being shorter, more interesting, et cetera, you want to give them paths to go down to ask the next question. So I'll use me as an example. When I say I help entrepreneurs fund their dreams, I don't say I'm a crowdfunding consultant or a speaker or anything like that. So they don't even know what kind of funding. They don't know what kind of dreams. It allows the respondent to take the question and the line of thinking in whatever track they want. So they might say what kind of entrepreneurs?

Are you a VC? I say, no, actually, I'm not a VC at all. Have you heard of crowdfunding? Have you heard of Kickstarter? And it helps them kind of steer the conversation. So when you say, I inspire entrepreneurs to be better leaders, I could see that being almost like a tagline for, I know you have your website, but that could be on a, I could imagine that on a business card, right?

The learning leader show inspiring entrepreneurs to become better leaders. And I don't know if you feel like entrepreneurs is kind of too. too tightly focused then you, and then you can use different. I was going to ask you about that specific word because, so part of how you know who your audience is when you do a podcast or you write a blog is you monitor the, you monitor you read and respond and converse with the people who write you emails. Right.

And I know you probably get a ton of emails. And so as the show's grown, I get more and more and more from people. And I would say that word, I mean, I love speaking with entrepreneurs. I speak with them every day. But I would say that the emails that I get,

typically are not from entrepreneurs, though. They are from people who have regular nine to five jobs, who are, a lot of times it's really cool. I mean, they're, they're really grateful. They're thankful. They tell me how it's helped. Sometimes people have been laid off and they're in between jobs and it's helped them maybe with a job interview. I mean, really cool stuff that I'm super proud of, man, that that gets there. So I'm wondering that, because I think that works sometimes. I'm wondering that that middle word, the second or the third word here. if it's I help or I inspire, what are some other options there? Because you don't want to use the word people, I know, because that's, because every, as you said before, everyone is people.

And you want to be more specific than that. Yeah, actually, so let's riff on this a little bit and break the formula, right? Because rules are, rules are meant to be broken. Yeah. If I'm you, and I know you pretty well and know, you know your content and stuff like that, what if, and this is totally coming out of left field and changing the format a little bit. But I think, do you believe sort of everyone is a leader or at least everyone has the capacity to be a leader? If someone doesn't feel like they're a leader but they listen to every episode of your podcast, they would probably feel more like a leader, right? I think so.

I'm a believer that you are not necessarily born with or without leadership skills. I believe those are built over time if you choose to do that. Okay, so everyone can be a leader. Absolutely. Now, maybe they shouldn't, but everyone certainly can. Sure, sure. Maybe yours is, and we completely blow up the formula here, but that's part of the point. Maybe when someone says, so, Ryan, what do you do?

You could say, I believe everyone can be a leader, and I show them how, or I show them that, or I show them. Or maybe instead of show, it's inspire, you know. But if, to me, like, I think I inspire, you know, people to become better leaders, that's fine, but it's, it's, it's. It's actually succinct, but it's not the most interesting. And I don't think, I think that would be hard to say with, you know, we'll just call it the Clooney Twinkle of confidence, right? Yeah. But if you said, if someone said, Ryan, what do you do? And your first sentence actually doesn't answer, what do you do?

That's the second sentence. And you say, I honestly believe that everyone can be a leader. And I show them how. Like that, I could imagine being said with the Clooney Twinkle, right? Well, they're going to say, how do you do that? Yeah. Yeah. And then you go, right.

then they get to steer it. So that's maybe a totally different, different paradigm that you could do. And maybe the answer isn't, I believe everyone can be a leader if that's not the main thing. But you could say, I honestly believe and then something about leadership, or you could say honestly believe leadership, you know, can be taught.

And that's what I teach or something along those lines. I love it. I didn't know how much we would go here, but I think this is really useful things because I think people listening to, in addition to me just selfishly, wanting to learn from you, Clay, but that's part of why I do the show, because I am fortunate to be able to choose, pick and choose the people that I want to speak with for this podcast, and I choose deliberately. I've been wanting to, you know, have this conversation with you for quite some time, and even doubled and tripled after I went to that training event with Jason and Joey.

And it's interesting, not to change the subject too much, but you happen to live with another former guest of the show. who has also been one of the biggest helps to me from before this podcast even existed, and that's Jason Zook. And I remember seeing Jason's Instagram posts and some of the things he's talking about. Like, wait a second. Jason now lives with Clay in Southern California. Like, talk to me about that. How did that happen?

Yeah, it's a crazy story. Been friends with Jason for years going back to the I Wear Your Shirt days and initially friends via Twitter and then online. And then we met in person and we played basketball together. we both love basketball. And we were at a conference that, so myself, my girlfriend, Julia, and Jason and his girlfriend, Caroline, all attend this conference in Fargo, North Dakota, put on by one of our dear friends, A.J. Leon, and it's a gathering of misfits.

It's called Misfit Khan. And sort of fittingly at Misfit Khan after it was over two years ago, two summers ago, we were all sitting there having brunch, and it was one of the times where we got to get in person, and get together in person every year at this conference. And so we were having brunch after the conference, and we were telling Jason and Carolyn that we were thinking about leaving Manhattan, that we didn't need to live in New York anymore

and might want to explore more of the country. And I used to live in San Diego, and we thought about coming back. And they said, you know what, we kind of feel the same about Jacksonville, Florida. We kind of want to leave. We're not sure where we want to go. And we were just having brunch.

There may have been a Bloody Mary involved. And somebody blurted out. I think Jason blurted out. You know what? Let's just all move to see. Diego and moving together in a big house. And my girlfriend, Julius, said, yeah, let's do it. And so within a week, we had booked a trip out here to at least look at houses and kind of explore, you know, do the testing, living together for a week to see if we killed each other. And we, it took a while.

It's actually hard to find a place to rent in San Diego from New York slash Jacksonville. But with the internet and a broker and stuff like that, we tried a few different times and eventually found this amazing house in Poway, California, which is just north. east of San Diego. And yeah, it's been a blast. It's like the smallest co-working space in the country with four people. Our living room is just four big IMAG monitors and Florida ceiling windows. And it's great because we get to riff creative ideas off of each other when Jason Head is really cool by my future thing last year. You know, him and I tend to be the first two up and we're making coffee at 630 or whatever. And, you know, he's like, I pour the coffee, sit down and he explained

by my future and just really interesting, amazing stuff. I mean, he's just, you know, a wellspring and a fountain of creativity. And then, you know, his girlfriend, Caroline, is super artistic. I'm actually sitting the podcast studio slash Caroline's art studio. And so I'm surrounded by her art and markers and paints and everything else. And she's just really forged a really neat trail with her company made vibrant. And then my girlfriend, Julia, focuses on productivity, helping companies and entrepreneurs be more productive with meetings and email and project management. So it's been a lot of fun. It's sort of strange at this age. to live with another couple, but neither of us are married, none of us have kids, and the house

is amazing, and so we've kind of turned it into this, you know, entrepreneur house. A lot of friends kind of joked with us and said, you know, you know that's got to be a reality show, right? Or you guys launch a new idea every week or whatever, but I definitely don't want to do the reality show thing. That leads me, though, my next question about, I love the thoughts, and I've asked this to some other creative types of idea generation of how the process for doing this. And now the fact that you're living in a house with three other people who are somewhat like-minded and are really creative, really smart, can help. Like, how was that almost accelerated your idea generation or the way you think or the way you go about your business?

Yeah, it's kind of strange. And I think Jason's the same way. And then Caroline and Julie to some extent as well, I have never had a problem with idea generation. I have the opposite problem with idea execution. I have so many ideas that before I execute on, you know, 90% of them, I'll think of another one and add it to the list. And that can be distracting. There's a great quote from Confucius that's, you know, man who chased two rabbits, catch none. I'm sure that was probably covered in essentialism as well.

But like my focus needs to be more on kind of execution, shutting on all the distractions, saying no to things and going deep. I'm a big believer in, you know, throwing things against a wall, trying ideas, seeing if they stick. How can you validate and test those things? So for me, it's been almost more like idea, not so much validation, but bouncing these ideas off of each other, understanding the roadblocks, seeing why something might not work. So there's Lake Poway, which is just a couple minutes away. Beautiful, gorgeous lake, takes about an hour to walk around it. So that's often where we'll like walk around, you know, some combination of us and talk about ideas. And you need to get away.

That's a little tidbit lesson for your listeners, I guess. You've got to get away from the screen. If you can see your computer screen, it's probably not where your ideas come from. There's a reason the whole shower thing, everybody jokes about ideas in the shower. I mean, it's scientifically proven and also just common sense that in your shower you don't have your cell phone and your computer and you don't have distractions and you're kind of alone in your head and you're alone with your thoughts. There's a really neat little product called Love Notes that we have. up. It's a little sticky thing where you can write waterproof notes. So it's a waterproof pencil and a waterproof pad of paper. And I always come up with, you know, ideas in the shower.

But then they're often lost, right? They evaporate with the steam. And so I jot them down on the, I don't know why they're called love notes, but they're just notes in the shower. And you can, they're completely waterproof. And I was like, really, waterproof notes? And it works great. So that is, yeah, it's been amazing to live with these guys, but it's less about like, oh, I don't think anyone in this house is that a lack of ideas. I think we, I think we have. I'll have kind of an idea list that's pretty long. But for people out there that are in that to kind of loop back and answer your question, I really believe in James Altisher's process of more ideas.

You need more ideas. And so get in the habit of whether you need to go to a coffee shop, somehow get away from your screen. Just go for a walk, speak into your phone, write it on a post-it note, whatever. And just write down 10 ideas a day. Just start with 10. I mean, we could come up with 10 on this podcast right now. Actually, as loop back, Seth, one more time. As part of the Seth Codin Alt MBA program that I did way back in 2009,

one of the first things he had us do was as a group of nine come up with 99 business ideas. And it wasn't about how good they were. It wasn't about validating them with lean startup. It was just about getting them done and out of our head. So we all had to brainstorm. You know, there was nine of us, so we all had to brainstorm, whatever, 133 or something like that. And so we did that and then publish it as a blog post. So it's a public blog post called like hamster coffins and 99 other business ideas or something like that.

And so if anyone is a shortage of ideas, just Google that. And you can find a bunch of different ones. Some of them, it's interesting to revisit it so many years later because some of them have gone on. I'm not saying like somebody called Uber exactly, but a service where you hit a button and a car comes and picks you up might be something like that that's in there. And so the point is ideas are great, but execution is really, really what matters. Like Instagram was the seventh, eighth, ninth, like mobile photo sharing app. The reason they won is because it worked. It was super instantly fast.

And the biggest thing was the filters. Every time you, you know, you went from posting a crappy photo to you apply Lomo and it looks a lot better. And then you crop it a little bit and it looks a lot better. And so they, every time you touch the Instagram app when you first used it, it delighted you because it was fast. It made your bad photo look better. You shared it. My friend Ryan Hock liked it. And like I got this instant feedback loop.

and so it's about understanding that stuff. So, yeah, I mean, I think this house maybe, the thing is, you can't sell ideas. Like, I was going to say this house just as a joke, like we probably have a surplus of ideas and we could sell those. But you can't sell ideas. Otherwise, there would be a site called ideabay.com. Like, there's eBay.com because the idea doesn't mean anything. And, you know, the idea is the 1% and the 99% is the execution and the testing and the validation and the storytelling and the marketing. So, yeah, we have, if anyone is stuck on ideas, but has an execution team, we've got plenty.

plenty of free ones for you. Love it. Well, Clay, this has been so good, man, but I want to be respectful for your time. So I got one more question. It's around the whole, I mentioned earlier, the purpose of the show, being pretty obsessive I am about the art and science of leadership, of improving every day, of comparing yourself only against your former self, not against anybody else. And so that's the whole purpose of learning leader.

And I'm just curious, though, when you hear that phrase, and you've had a chance, like I said, to listen to a few episodes. When you hear that phrase, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? It's about getting a little bit better every day. Not a lot better, not, you know, there's all these listicles and all these books and all this everything about changing your life. But if you do the math, if you get 1% better every day, you're going to blow away, you know, your goals and everything. I think people, one of the things I would say, stop looking for, for shortcuts. I always, I kind of joke, do you remember that one, you know, BuzzFeed listicle that changed your life? No, me either, you know.

And yet those are the things that we click on, the tweets that are like, you know, the 12 speaking tips that'll, you know, get you to TED. Of course, it's not 12 speaking tips. It's 120 at-bats doing free talks and then smaller pay talks and then be, you know, honing your craft and getting 1% better. So I think a learning leader is somebody who wakes up every day with sort of like the child's mind and I don't know everything and, you know, leading by example. And I think you said it really well earlier, which is the I don't know, the willingness to say I don't know. And I think even someone as we think of leaders like, you know, even Steve Jobs, I think he would be the first one to say, I don't know about a whole bunch of things. And then he didn't know about calligraphy, but he was interested in it. So he audited that class.

I mean, that's the ultimate learning leader move is like auditing a class that you're not even enrolled in because you want to get better at that thing. You know, I think I talked to a lot of people who are like, oh, I can't get the job I want or my resume. I'm like, a resume is just makes you look like everybody else. Look at what Ryan Graves did for Foursquare. This is a good example of like hustle and learning leader. He wanted to work at Foursquare back in 2009, 2010. And so he ran around Chicago going into bars and signing up them with mayor deals. He'd talked to the owner of the bar, explain what Foursquare.

is whip out his phone sign him up and so you know what his application to foursquare was in 2010 when everyone every person entrepreneur in the world wanted to work for four square it was hey i already did the job you know i think i already did the biz dev job i just signed up 50 bars in chicago can we talk and you know dennison and now he's now he works for uber you know so like that kind of hustle do the job before you get there wake up realizing that you that you don't know and and continue to learn and listen to listen to podcasts like this i love it man so good and i got to tell you clay i'm I'm excited to meet you in person out in Ohio. Yes.

Coming up at Jason's Mastermind Talks event and pumped, I think it's going to be a lot of fun. I know you've been there before, and this will be my first one. So I'm excited to get a chance to dive even deeper on this when we're out there. I can't wait. So thanks again, man, for being here. I really appreciate it. Where would you send people to find you online? If anyone's interested in the how to intro, six-word intro, perfect intro thing, just go to how to intro.com.

There's a book there. for free that explains the whole formula and then if you're interested in crowdfunding just go to crowdfunding hacks.com and you can just Google me and Clay Aver anywhere on the internet. Awesome. Thanks again Clay for being here. I really appreciate it man. Thank you Ryan. All right. This episode of the Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to learning leader show.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can

We can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again and we'll see you next time on the Learning Leader Show.