The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 100: What I've Learned Through 100 Episodes Of The Learning Leader Show

Episode Date: February 22, 2016

Episode 100: What I’ve Learned Through 100 Episodes Of The Learning Leader Show First and foremost… Thank YOU.  Thank you to the loyal listeners and supporters of The Learning Leader Show.  The feedback I receive from you inspires me to continue seeking out world class guests and preparing so hard for each and every episode.  To honor this incredibly special episode…#100…we are shaking things up a bit!  Today I will answer questions posed to me from YOU, the fans of the show.  Do you have questions for me?  To ask, simply subscribe to my newsletter on www.LearningLeader.com  and send me a note.  In the future, I plan to incorporate more of your questions into my show, so please subscribe and share your questions. It’s an honor to have my good friend and mentor Greg Meredith  join me for this episode as a facilitator.  He focuses on the questions that have been posed to me, along with questions he has come up with while being a loyal fan of the show. Want more episodes like this? Send me a note, I love hearing feedback from you.  Episode 100: What I’ve Learned Through 100 Episodes Of The Learning Leader Show Subscribe on iTunes  or Stitcher Radio The Learning Leader Show “I Would Urge You To Cause A Ruckus.  We Need More People Like That…” In This Episode, You Will Learn: Fearing mediocrity… Being intrinsically motivated to be great How to understand and focus on you “important but not urgent” time What separates great leaders from good leader… Kat Cole’s words… “Courage and Confidence mixed with Humility and Curiosity Opening up as the host of the show – Being more vulnerable, sharing my voice in a bigger way Mastering a new skill Making Money From The Show – My views The Best Team Win I’ve Ever Experienced The most talented teammate I’ve ever played with… My dream family vacation How to be a value-adder/giver when you don’t have much to offer? What can you do to add value when you do not have a lot of experience, few resources, and an under-developed network? The small difference between making it in the NFL and coming up just short In one sentence, why do I do this?  “I Believe Everyone Can Be A Leader And I Show Them How.” Continue Learning: Go To: LearningLeader.com Go To: RyanHawk.net Follow Greg Meredith on Twitter: @dgmeredith Follow Me on Twitter: @RyanHawk12 You may also like these episodes: Episode 001: How To Become A Master Connector W/ Jayson Gaignard From MasterMind Talks Episode 078: Kat Cole – From Hooters Waitress To President of Cinnabon Episode 082: Dan Pink – The Science of Motivation, Legendary Writer & Ted Talk Episode 086: Seth Godin – How To Become Indispensable & Build Your Tribe Did you enjoy the podcast? If you enjoyed this style of answering questions from fans/listeners of the show, please don’t hesitate to send me a note on Twitter or email me. Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell The Learning Leader Show Life rewards those who take action—and I take bold action with The Learning Leader Show to ensure we have world class guests from which to learn. That occasionally means picking up the phone to call a stranger or sending a cold email to anyone on the planet. I want to hear from YOU. If you know of an inspiring leader that should come on the show, email me or hit me up on Twitter where I’m @RyanHawk12 The great John Wooden said, “Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future.” Thanks for choosing to be a friend of The Learning Leader Show. This show is about giving us all the opportunity to surround ourselves with great friends that can help us grow, improve and build our brightest future. I hope you get as much out of this show as I do. Here’s to Leading!

I think it's okay to cause a little bit of a ruckus, as Seth Godin would say. It's okay to go out there. And I'm not saying be completely polarizing. You know, AJ and I have talked about that on a podcast before. But to go out there and to be known for something, to try to do something big, to succeed at times, to fail at times when people are going to see it. You know, I've definitely had failures in public, whether usually in the sports world. But I think that's okay. I think that's part of if you're going to go try to do something big.

there might be moments that that you fail and you slip up. And it's all about bouncing back from that in order to be great. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey, guys, before we get to this great conversation,

I want to let you know that this episode was brought to you by Mizan and Maine. You'll probably remember from episode 64, I spoke with a CEO of Mizna and Maine, Kevin Lavelle. And we promised to continue that dialogue as we both progressed on our journeys. And we certainly have, and we formed a partnership. And Kevin and his great companies and support and people that he works with have agreed to sponsor my podcast. But for me, I'm very picky when it comes to this. I only wanted to work with people who I truly believed in their products. So this is not just a sponsor to me.

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And I didn't really believe that was possible until I tried one. But the four-way stretch fabric is literally like nothing I've ever felt before. And so originally I bought one just to try them out to see if this is really true. A button-down shirt that looks great with a suit or in business casual. I'm like, there's no way this thing is going to feel like people tell me it will. Well, it felt even better than that. And so after I bought that first shirt, I ended up buying six more. shirts and two Henleys.

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I love the button downs. You'll see on that site my favorite shirts. And when you're checking out, use the code Ryan Hawk to get free shipping if you're only buying one shirt. If you happen to want to buy three button downs like I've done a couple times, use the code Ryan Hawk 3. you'll get $50 off. Again, I love Miz and Maine.

I love everything they stand for, and I promise when you try the search, you will too. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leaders Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Wow, it's episode number 100. It's incredible what we've accomplished so far, and I'm so grateful for all of you for being here. It feels like literally it was yesterday. I was sitting down having lunch with my great mentor, Greg, Meredith, discussing the

for this show and what I hoped it could be and what he hoped it could be for me. I absolutely am so grateful for all of you for listening and supporting and the emails and the feedback I received. And so I wanted to do something a little bit different for this episode. I wanted you guys to be the leaders of this show. I wanted to answer your questions. So the people who are part of my email newsletter who have signed up at learning leader.com have sent me questions and I have responded to many of those questions. So thank you for sending them. If you want to be a part of that newsletter and you aren't currently, simply go to learning leader.com, put your name and email, and you will be there, and you'll receive the regular updates that I send to that group. I love that

group. I appreciate you. I appreciate everyone who listens and supports this show. And I wanted to give a few quick thank you to a few supporters who have gone above and beyond. Again, my mentor, Greg Meredith for helping pushing me into doing this and for leading this specific episode asking me some of his questions as well as all of your questions. My editor Scott Dinell, Scott is the man. He makes this thing happen. He puts it all together after I get done recording. Thank you so much for the work that you do. Another great mentor for me, Lance Salyers, Lance sits me down regularly and will tell me the things that I need to hear, even if I don't want to hear them. He's honest and I love that honesty and I need it.

and I very appreciative. My two brothers, AJ and Matt, they are as loyal as it gets and as supportive as any brothers could possibly be. And I'm so grateful to have both of them regularly share their feedback and their support. And of course, my beautiful wife, Miranda, who is here for me every single day, helping, inspiring me doing such big things herself that I am just absolutely so grateful. but this episode is for you. I'm so excited to get this one going. Ladies and gentlemen, it's episode 100 of The Learning Leader Show. Ryan, one thing that separates great leaders from good leaders

is that they recognize what they do really well, and they also recognize that they don't do everything well. As you progress in your journey towards being a great leader, what are two or three things that you've realized that you do really well? Wow, Greg, a good question, really important question. I think because this is, you know, something interesting that I've found from, I think people who have sustained excellence, leaders who have sustained excellence over time is that they know themselves really well. And sometimes this just takes time to really get an understanding of yourself.

But I think a few of the things that I've picked up on, you know, naturally, I just have a really big curiosity about really the world. I think just a lot of things out there that. that I'm always asking the question why or what if we did it another way or are there potential other solutions to this problem. And I think having an innate curiosity about somebody is a good thing. I think I've had that for quite some time. I've really developed that over the last, I would say, a few years, though, as I reach out to mentors to just ask them questions and pepper them and probably bug them, you're one of those

guys, as you know, to where I'm trying to just learn little different ways. And I fully have an understanding that I don't even, I'm not even really close to having it figured out. So I think curiosity is one area. You know, Kat Cole, one of my favorite guests I've had in this podcast, episode 78, she was on. She said that great leaders have this delicate balance of courage and confidence mixed with humility and curiosity. So I would say I'm really striving for that. I think I have some courage. I've developed confidence over time, and certainly I'm pretty curious. So I like to think that I am getting there when it comes to the main topics that one of my favorite leaders, Kat Cole, has said, is necessary to be great at this thing we call

leadership. What do you mean when you say, I get the curiosity piece, and I think anyone who knows you and anyone who listens to this podcast knows you have that in spades. What do you mean when you say that you have courage? Well, if you want to speak towards the podcast alone here, you have to be willing to reach out to world-class performers to people who have done big things in their lives. Some people would call these people famous and really not worry when they,

say no. You know, I wrote a little piece that I published on LinkedIn about my nine-month quest to get Seth Godin on the podcast and just some of the things that you need to go through to get these people. You hear the word no a lot. And I think I've developed that courage probably from my background and the profession of selling, the fact that I've been turned down, you know, hundreds of thousands of times from people. And so I think I've developed that courage through failure, through hearing the word no, through people potentially saying, you know, that I wasn't good enough at something, I think that's helped develop my courage to say, you know what, the worst thing that's going to happen is just somebody's going to say no, or they're just

going to disagree with me. And so I think I've developed that over time. You know, Ryan, I think, and I think that's a great trait, a great trait for a leader, because, you know, when you're trying to follow somebody who doesn't display that courage, not willing to put themselves out there, not willing to stand up for the team, not willing to really make an effort in a positive direction that everybody knows needs to happen because they're afraid. I think that is really chilling for a team and really hurts the leadership of that person trying to make it happen. What would you say something that you still need to work on as a leader? So I am not a very patient person. I think patience is a trait of great

leaders, and I don't possess that yet. Typically, when I want something done, or I don't get it done when I want it done, I'm just not good in those moments. Or maybe if I'm depending on somebody else and they don't get it done, I struggle with that. Another area, and this is something that probably bugs my wife is that I really struggle to be content with things. So for example, you know, we, we, we, my wife and I built this, this beautiful home for our family to live in. And, you've, you've been here. So you've seen it. It's a great neighborhood. We have great, we have great neighbors. It's a great, great house. And almost within a few months after us moving in, I, I told my wife, I wanted to build another house. And she, she, she thought, I mean,

And everyone thought I was crazy because it's plenty big. It's really perfect for us. But there's just little things that I wanted to tweak and I wanted to fix. And I just wanted to do the process all over again. I think that's kind of one of the things that it's about me that maybe even annoys me at times is that I just want to tweak and nothing is ever quite perfect yet. So maybe that's a form of perfection. I don't know. I don't know if I like to use that word of being a perfectionist.

But that's just one example that kind of colors that for people to say. well, why would you just build a home? You should be happy. You should probably live there for 25 years. And it was like two months. And I'm thinking, I kind of want to do this again, even though that doesn't make any sense to most people. There's a great story in Steve Jobs, the book about Steve Jobs that I think it was Isaacson wrote it. And it was all about jobs getting on Larry Ellison's plane and riding on it several times. And then he went and made his own plane. And Ellison wrote on it eventually. And said that every single change that jobs made, it was for the better. So you're in good company looking at your house and saying, hey, there are all these little tweaks I want to go and make. So that's fantastic. But it could bug the people around you, you know? I mean, you can see that where when it's like, just be happy with what you have.

You guys have built something great. You know, I proposed to my wife while we're, you know, in the process of building this house on the site of the home. If there's anything, we have sentimental value to be here, Greg. And I'm sitting here saying, I want to do this again because I just want to do this again. because I just want to tweak this room and tweak that and make that a little bit better. And it's just always kind of, you should, so I'm getting ready to publish the highlight kind of teaser video for my speaking, what I'm trying to build out that part of the business.

And my guy Seth, who is editing it with me, he's got to be saying, oh, my God, Ryan drives me crazy. Because he sends me emails at all times of the morning saying, hey, can we tweak that? Can we tweak this? And it's just hard for me to ever say this is a finished. product. I'm saying it's not quite there. It could be, let me, let me reshoot that, or let's tweak this, or let's edit that. And in a way, I know it's kind of an issue, but it's just, I guess it's part of me that I'm a work in progress, man.

Well, I understand. I understand. And if it's important, it's worth doing right. So hopefully there's some contractor here in Dayton that's here in this podcast, and he's looking his lips right now thinking, boy, oh, boy, there's a sales opportunity for me here with the, with the Hawk redesign in five years or so. Oh, yeah. Hey, when you talk to Molly Fletcher, she said something I thought was interesting about high achievers,

and she said that high achievers have a fear of mediocrity and that they use it as motivation. Do you have that fear of being just an average guy and does that fear or could that fear motivate you for some of the things that you're working on? motivation is interesting to me. You know, obviously when you're looking for someone to work with, you want someone who is intrinsically motivated. I think motivation comes from within. It's certainly great to be inspired by others. But to answer your question, I absolutely fear mediocrity.

It definitely scares me, I would say. But fear can also be another great motivator for people. And so for me it is. And I don't really feel bad about saying this, but I really want to be great. And I want to do great things. And I want to help other people and somehow inspire people. You know, I'm surrounded by that, whether it's my dad or my younger brother, AJ. I've seen the effect he's had on people of all ages.

And my wife does that on a daily basis as well. So I'm really surrounded by, I think, I would call greatness. That's how I would define it. And so to me, if someone were to say, you know, hey, yeah, he's a good guy. He just kind of, you know, goes about his business and does a pretty good job. I really fear that label. And so I would say it absolutely drives me to not be labeled to someone who just kind of goes about his business and does okay. I think it's okay to cause a little bit of a ruckus, as Seth Godin would say.

It's okay to go out there. And I'm not saying be completely polarizing, you know, AJ and I have talked about that on a podcast before. but to go out there and to be known for something, to try to do something big, to succeed at times, to fail at times when people are going to see it. You know, I've definitely had failures in public, whether usually in the sports world. But I think that's okay. I think that's part of if you're going to go try to do something big, there might be moments that you fail and you slip up.

And it's all about bouncing back from that in order to be great. And Ryan, do you have a pretty clear? picture of what great looks like for you. I mean, do you, are you a guy that takes the time to clearly define, hey, these are the five things that I'm really striving for that I'll be, that will really allow me to know that I've kind of arrived, that I've gotten there, that I've that I've made it happen. I don't ever see myself getting to a place where I say I've arrived, ever. I think that's part of what I mentioned to you earlier about, you know, building a beautiful home and wanting to build another one two months later. I think that's just part of my makeup, I guess.

And so is it clearly defined what greatness is? I don't think so. I want to have moments along the way to where I feel really good about inspiring other people. First and foremost, it starts at home, obviously with my wife and our daughters is what is most important to me to inspire and lead our family. I take a, that's a massive responsibility that I take very seriously. It's one of my biggest whys behind doing, you know, what I do on a daily basis. And so, you know, seeing them, our girls grow up and do great things and be inspired. if I can be a leader in that, that's a definition of greatness to me.

And then seeing it have a positive impact on other people, whether it's giving speeches, writing a book, doing a podcast, one-on-one coaching, mentoring, those types of things where it could have a positive effect on other people like that. That is another form of greatness for me. Yeah. And you talk about, you said, hey, part of this pursuit is that I'm trying new things and I'm pushing myself. Do you still get nervous when you're out there pushing yourself into new areas? Like with the podcast, you've done 100 episodes now, and you are, you know, you're experienced at this now.

Do you still get nervous? Are there still butterflies in the stomach when you turn the mic on? Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. I think there would be a big problem if there weren't some of those. I mean, there's right before I hit record every single time. I do. In fact, there's probably been a couple times where I haven't felt that, and those are episodes that I haven't released. So I've actually recorded more than what I've released because I think it's a disservice to the listeners and the trust that I've built up over 100 episodes where people, I think, expect big things.

Or maybe I just expect those things. And so I take every single episode, Greg. I take every episode as if it's a first time somebody is listening to my. show. And I never want to put a bad product out there for that person's first time. And I know people view sports that way, treat every game like it's the first time, you know, this 10-year-old boy has seen you play. And I know that maybe that's a little too deep for a podcast, but that's actually how I approach it. I fully expect, and I think from a practical perspective, it's probably true. I'm probably getting people from whether I have a guest or not who grabbing someone of their audience and it's the first time they've ever heard of me. And so that's important that they enjoy it. So if anyone refers me or my podcast to a friend and they pick up right

at the latest episode, I want to make sure that it's great. And so I feel a duty now and a high level, high expectation level to the listeners to do a great job every single time. So if I'm not feeling a little nervous or those butterflies before, then that's a problem. And so I'm I certainly had that feeling. What guest made you the most nervous? Gary Vaynerchuk, Seth Godin, Dan Pink, Shane Snow, Kat Cole. Those are the first ones that initial popped in mind. I think those are probably some of the best episodes, in my opinion.

But, you know, I'm by it. Was it just because of the knowledge you had of their work, the respect that you had for them as leaders, the difficulty in landing, them as guests? What do you think drove that, you know, those butterflies, that nervousness with that list of guests? I think it was a couple of things. One, the buildup, the amount of time it took from when I sent the very first cold email to when we actually did it, when something builds up over time, there's just so much anticipation. And then all of a sudden you're, you're here. You know, I send Seth Godin an email in February. of 2015 and we recorded over nine months, almost 10 months later. I mean, that's a lot of buildup.

Yeah. You know, Kat Cole was a similar story. Dan Pinka's similar story. Gary Vee, you know, somewhat similar story, or if it took like 28 emails back and forth and five phone calls with the team of people to convince them to do it, like that creates a buildup to me that is that can create some anticipation nerves, things like that. So I think in that, coupled with the fact that these people are very busy, they're investing their time with me and I want to do a great job. I really do. And like I do care what people think about this.

Like I'm not going to, I always find it funny when I hear people who say they don't think, especially if they're doing a podcast or they write a blog, to say that they don't care. Of course you care. Right. I mean, we're human beings. and I really care what people think of this. And I want people to love it, man. I really do.

And I want them to be inspired by it. So when you care a lot and there's a big buildup, that can create some nerves. And it certainly has for me. You know, you've talked about Seth Godin a couple of times. And I want to ask a question about something he said in the podcast you recorded with him that I thought was really interesting. He talked about the idea that when he was, was on the brink of failure, nobody considered him a great leader. But as soon as he had success, you know, everybody suddenly recognized his genius. And I thought that was both very telling on his part.

There was a definite sense of humility in that, but there was also this sense of, hey, I wasn't that much better of a leader beforehand than I was afterwards. You know, you think about a guy like Steve Jobs, who was run out of Apple, and then came back and obviously led that company to great things. and died a hero. Bill Belichick when he was coaching the Browns. Nobody there was thinking, you know, Bill Belichick's going to go down as one of the greatest NFL coaches of all time. And that's where he'll retire when he decides to hang it up. So, you know, these great leaders had little on their resume that would indicate their future standing as, you know, sort of icons in the field. What advice would you give to leaders that are out there right now that are in the

middle of the slog. Maybe they're running a $10 million company rather than a billion dollar company or, you know, it's a woman managing a small sales team with only slightly above average performance. What are some things that you've picked up from your guests or gleaned from your own study that you would say, hey, keep at it, keep plugging away some encouragement for leaders who have yet to see some of those outstanding results? when you study the stories of greatness, I think of people who have sustained excellence over a number of years, almost all of them have big moments of failure multiple times. And so I think that can be, I don't know the right word, maybe refreshing to people at times when people are struggling. And so I think if you have a great foundation and your foundation is of, and you possess some of those

characteristics that we mentioned earlier in our conversation about, you know, seeking knowledge, about studying people who have done what you want to do and understanding their origin stories, understanding what they went through, I would, you know, that's how I go about my life. So I always, I don't know, since I've been in the professional world, I've always looked for people who have been there before me who are doing great things now. Now, you'd be careful, I don't follow or I don't seek out information from people who have never accomplished anything big or who have never done anything that I want to do. So I'm seeking out those people on a day-to-day basis and figuring out how do they handle this failure, or how do they handle this failure? or how do they handle the tough times? And what specifically did they do?

I get practical, too. What do you do? I mean, you know, what is your morning routine? What do you wake up and do? There are certain things. And so I like to study those. That's why I ask people those questions. And, you know, I put it as one of the bylines my podcast, the Kobe Bryant quote,

there's power and understanding the journey of others to help create your own. So I think that's a big deal for me. And so I think it's like teasing out the tips. and tricks from other people who have done the things that you want to do is one way to get through it. If you're a sales manager and you're struggling, you know, maybe speak to somebody who's done it for 20 years, who's had a great deal of success. I guarantee you they have not been successful while 20 years. I guarantee it. So ask them the questions, how do they handle those times when it was bad? And then what specifically did they do to make it good? You know, some of them will be humble and say,

you know, I just got kind of lucky. And Seth even hinted at that a little bit. But usually the things that are consistent is that they are consistent. You know, Seth Godin started writing and he's written every day for 11 years straight. Right. Right. And he notices things because he holds himself accountable, say, I'm going to write every single day. And it forces me to notice things. And so he notices things because he knows I need to write tomorrow. I need to write tomorrow morning when I wake up or I need to write tonight. So I need to go around and notice things. And so I think those are some of the things they do.

But the other aspect of it is that when people are always seeking out ways to help others, I firmly believe that things are going to work out for you in the long run. It might not in the short run. And so that's another thing just to constantly think about. Like you hit it back to your sales manager call. I mean, that's what I was. And so I know that feeling of. when things are going well and when they're not. And if I consciously focused every day on helping

coach and train and develop my people and then finding other great people to hire to work alongside those people, we had a much better shot of being successful in a long run, even if we struggled at times. I like that a lot, Ryan. That's good insight. Let me ask you a couple of personal questions and not overly personal, but some more about you. We both share a love for the podcast that Brian Coppelman does called The Moment. I think he's a great interviewer. He's interesting, challenging, lots of good knowledge, great podcast. And one thing that I've come to realize after listening to the podcast for a couple of years is I feel like I know him, right? I've listened to enough of his interviews with other people and kind of his back and

forth with really interesting guests that I have insight into who he is as a person. Do you want that same thing for your guests? So when, I'm sorry, for your listeners, do you want them to feel like they know you the way that I now feel like I know compliment? I do. I think initially, though, when you start out and you are unknown in this space, you you kind of rely on your guests to lead and you as the host try really hard to ask insightful questions that maybe creates some answers that others have never heard before.

You try to do that. And I think as you progress, you know, actually I got an email from a listener who said, it's like, I hate, I'm not making this comparison, but this is just what the email said. It was paraphrasing. But basically a late night talk show host. host. Initially, you want the host to kind of come in there and interview the guest and just do his thing. But eventually, you're like, you know, who is David Letterman? What's he all about? And so as time progresses, you want to know more about that person and what makes him tick

and what he's really about. And so I think that's to this agent, and obviously from the urging of mentors like you to say, hey, you need to put your own personality into this even more so than you already do. Yeah. I definitely want to do more of that. I think over the last, I don't know, 15 to 20 or so episodes, I've worked to do that. And some are better than others, you know, just some of it, some conversations are more conversations and some of them are more interviews.

And really, sometimes the guests can drive that where they're just, they're, they're, they're conversationalists and there's a good back and forth. And sometimes it is more of a Q&A. And I think that will continue because, you know, everyone's got a different personality. I don't always know the people. Most often I don't know my guest prior to recording with them. So we don't have this friendly banter. Like I build, you know, I build rapport with them before we record. Sometimes we have a pre-call. Sometimes we don't if the timing doesn't work. And then we hit record and we rock and roll, man. So I like to do more of that. And I agree with

you. And I think we'll do more episodes like this. And I think this is fun for me. And it's helpful to have somebody like you who can ask insightful questions of me to make me think a little bit and then share more of how I think about things and what's going on in my personal life as well at times. Yeah, and even just the stuff that you're learning, the stuff that you're applying, you know, we're on this journey with you as listeners, right? So we're obviously friends, but I'm also a listener, and I really enjoy the progress that you've made through this podcast. And I think all of us as listeners are sitting there and you now have had a hundred really interesting conversations. And we want to know how it's impacting you and how

are you learning as a leader and what is, what are you taking away that's shaping it? So I agree with you. I think you're moving in that direction and I know I've appreciated it over the last several episodes. You know, one of the things that makes you unique is, And you talk about it about being a football player, right? So you had a great high school career. You had a really good college career. You played at a high level, right? As a fellow Mac alumni, I'm going to give Ohio you.

I'm going to treat them like they're just one small, slight step down from the buck-ass. You had a good college career, and then you played professional football in the Arena League. So you are a very successful football player. Your younger brother walked a very similar path. Great high school career, went on to a successful college career, and then he was drafted into the NFL. He's been there for nine or ten years. I have always been curious about your relationship with him.

You guys, from the outside, I don't know him at all. But from the outside, it seems like you guys have a really healthy, good relationship. And I've always been curious about this. And maybe you've even said it in different times about there's a very thin line between AJ's talent and your talent, right? So you were one of the best, you know, if there are 1,000 people that play football, you're one of the best 99 football players in the country. And he was, you know, one of the best 99 football players in the country. So that thin line is very, very small, but the difference in terms of opportunities, in terms of compensation, in terms of, like, playing at the highest level and kind of fulfilling that is pretty big.

How do you reconcile that? Like, how have you kind of made your piece with the fact that, hey, I was just almost as good, but not quite? And did you ever experience any jealousy about the fact that he kind of crossed over that thin line and you didn't? It's an interesting question. I think really a couple things there. One, if you just studied my own career, yeah, you're upset that you felt like you made it pretty close, but also kind of happy for the fact that I don't, you know, I think earning a college scholarship at two different places and competing with somebody when I initially out of high school,

want to Miami University competing with a world-class performer in Ben Roth. Ruther head to head for two years. It was a phenomenal experience. This may sound weird, but a very fortunate position for me to be in because not everybody in the world gets to compete with a Hall of Fame Super Bowl winning quarterback. Yeah. And I did for two years. And how many people choose a Max school in which they're going to play behind a future NFL

Hall of Fame quarterback, right? Yeah. But I didn't view it as that. I viewed it as I'm going to go beat that guy out. And then I lost, right? And so he beat me out for the job. And so I was in a precarious position of be a backup, move to receiver, or leave and go somewhere else and be a starter or have the opportunity to start somewhere else. And I elected to transfer to Ohio University and fortunately started for a few years there.

So that's part of it. I think that I look at and say, okay, you know, if Ben wouldn't have wanted to mind me, what would have happened? I mean, I stopped asking that question because it's just not reality. He was there. I was there. We competed. It was just a fantastically stressful two years in a good way, I would say, because it helped me prepare for life after football.

As far as your question about AJ, you know, I think... Well, hold on one second. So are you content with the way that your personal career played out? Like, do you look at it and say, hey, I got everything I got out of my football career? There wasn't anything else that I left out there that I, that I, that I, that I, could have done differently? That's like, I don't, I don't know if I've, like, thought about it that deeply, which might, might be weird.

I, no, I think I, I, I could have done better. And I don't, I don't, that might be a weird statement. I feel like I could have played better at times, but for, for, for whatever reason, it didn't happen. You know, I, I don't like the thought of making excuses about certain things and what, what went on. but I feel like I'm happy with a lot of the things that happen. I think I've taken a lot from it. It set me up for life after sports to be much better in the business and leadership world,

the things that I've taken from the field. So in a way, I'm happy from that. But certainly, I mean, I didn't get drafted to play in the NFL. I got a few looks. I got a few shots. I wanted the CFL for a little bit. I did these things, but I didn't quite make it. So you can't say like I'm perfectly happy with it.

I mean, it went moderately well, I would say. Okay. But yeah, to get back to your question about AJ, so I think it would be really, the fact that AJ is such a good guy and a good person, I mean, truly just deep down, just a great human being. Maybe if he wasn't like that, it would be different, but he is. and so when you have this this immense friendship that that goes far beyond any other friendship you could have maybe up until when you meet your spouse it's it's it just you can't be anything but so happy for that person's success I you know now being a dad it as weird as it sounds it feels similar to that when you see your kids succeed and he's he's just two years younger

than me, so he's not, you know, it's not like I was his dad. I mean, I was his brother. We're friends. We start. And we talk, you know, obviously every day and we'll various forms of communication texts, whatever, but communicate every day. And the cool thing is I am, I'm probably more proud, though, of the fact of the way he is as a dad and as a husband. And I love his kids and his wife, Laura dearly. And so I think I'm more proud of that fact. And I think we both root incredibly hard for each other to do well. You know, when my podcast kind of took off and it started being recognized, you know, outside of my wife, nobody was more excited. He still gets excited for me on a day, on a daily basis about this stuff. And so like just like I do, I think, for him when he plays well or

you know, it's interesting, Greg, how this, you transition as you both mature and get a little bit older. When I watch him play now, I'm more nervous, not about the fact of him playing great, because I know he's going to know his assignment, he's going to consistently do his job, but I'm much more nervous about the fact of him being healthy. And I think about, you know, his head in the CTE and all this stuff, and it worries me, you know, really does. And so I'm constantly, we have conversations about that. And so that's something to me that I think about the fact that I want him to just to be healthy is much more important to me than if he wins another Super Bowl or if he gets, you know, whatever happens in the future. He's played 10 years in the NFL. That's pretty

wild, just the fact that he's played 10 full seasons and he's pretty healthy, which is, which is awesome as a now as his brother. That's really all I could hope for. I think it's also probably a sign of you getting older, right, where our priorities definitely shift when we start to hit that age, get a little more age behind us. You have a good connection with your listeners. And one of the things that you did as we were leading up to this interview, this conversation, was that used forwarded to me a few of those questions. And so I get the opportunity to have the ability to ask you some of those questions.

And I wanted to start with one from a listener who I think must be a college student because this is what the question is. is when you're in college, how can you be a value adder and a giver in your relationships when you don't have much to offer? What else can you do to add value when you have little experience, few resources, and an underdeveloped network? And the listener goes on to say, I'm often frustrated because I'm not sure how I can return the favor when people, you know, five, 10, 15 years out of school help me. One thing you usually do have at that age is a lot of time. You know, Ryan Holiday talked about this on this podcast.

You can hustle and you do have time. And so you don't necessarily need to go around asking your mentors what problems that you can help solve. But I think you need to creatively find a way to understand some of the things that are bothering them or some of the problems in their lives if you're looking to pay them back in some way, shape or form. And creatively solve those problems. So maybe it's an introduction. And I've had college kids do this for me where they've said, I love your podcast. I love what you're doing. Is there anything I could do?

And sometimes I will respond and say, make an introduction to me to somebody where I could potentially speak and they'll hustle and they'll do that. And the good ones will do that. The bad ones will just disappear. And so I think it's two things. One, it's a gift to be able to be a mentor and realize that. So mentors like helping other people. people, give them the opportunity to help you. They enjoy that. So let somebody be a mentor towards

you. You don't need to feel like you always have to pay them back. I'm trying to answer the question, but also kind of philosophically tell them what I think. So I think mentors, you know, Ben Irwine's a guy. He's at Miami University. He's a great guy. He's the one who asked this question. And so I hope he's listening. But that's the thing you had to need to remember. Like just give people the opportunity to be a mentor. They love it. People, those, these types that are like that, they want to help other people. So give them that opportunity. But another thing like Ryan Holiday or Tim talked about, Tim Ferriss, is the fact that you

need to go and work for people for free. Find interesting people. And you can do this when you're young. It's hard to do this when you're married with kids. But, I mean, you still could, I guess, but it's a lot harder. But find really interesting people. Maybe people who you'd even call your heroes and offer to work for them for free. But don't just say, hey, I'll work for free.

What do you need? Come to that meeting with two, three, four, five value ads that you've done your research. You've understand how can I help this person specifically. What are some practical things I can do to help them? And then come to that first meeting having solved some of those problems. You'll be amazed at the response you get from that person who you want to mentor you. Ryan, I think that's great advice. I've pulled together some other ones, some of the other listener questions.

and I want to do a lightning round with you where I asked the question, you just give me a really, really short answer. Does that sound like a good plan? Yep. Okay. If you could master one skill you don't have right now, what would it be and why? I want to play the guitar, but great, that is a huge time investment, and I'm choosing right now to invest my time in other way. So as much as I'd love to play that, I can't sign up for that right now because I'm signing up to do other things.

Do you make any money off the podcast? Um, hard to answer this quickly. Overall, if you measured it like a business, then this business has lost money, I would say. I don't view it that way. I view it in ways that what does it lead to and what is the relationships it's creating. So I do have a sponsor from Mizan and Maine. I think people who have listened know that that's the deal that we've worked on. We're working on extending that relationship to be a long-term potential title sponsor.

So that, that is, that's money directly. Indirectly, I've gotten money from speeches. Indirectly, I'm looking to write more potentially a book here coming up that would come from what I've learned on it. So directly from a advertising sponsorship a little bit, indirectly, yeah, there's some other things in the works that I've monetized it a little bit. What's the best team win you ever experienced? You know, it's weird. When I first saw this question come in, I thought of, I, For some reason, I thought of a lot of the wins when I played in the Arena Football League for the Birmingham Steel Dogs.

And I know that's odd because I had great high school and college wins. But, you know, we, there was a number of games I thought of where we had to come back and win. And I had to, you know, in the Arena League, the quarterback has to, you know, throw the ball pretty much every single play. So the quarterback usually determines if you win or lose. And so I don't know if I could pinpoint one. I could pinpoint probably two or three where we were, you know, I had a big deficit and I had to come back and score a number of points to win. But I would say a couple of the wins playing in Downing Birmingham.

Okay. This may be a question that stirs up a little bit of a hornets nest in the Hawk household because I know you played with your brother and you've already mentioned Big Ben. So who's the most talented teammate you ever played with? I mean, it's definitely Ben. And AJ knows this because AJ's gotten to where he is more so through his work than his just pure God-given talent. Ben has more pure talent than anybody I've ever been around. I mean, he was great at every single thing that he did, whether it was, he's a shortstop on

the baseball team, the point guard on the basketball team, he's a sub 10 handicap when we play golf together. I mean, all of these things. So just if you're talking about pure talent, and that was a question, I would say him for sure. Sure. What's your dream family vacation? You know, we had a great family vacation. We took the girls to Chicago last summer, which was, I don't know if I'd say it was a dream vacation. It was a great vacation because we got to, you know, see all the sites.

I think I would love to take our girls skiing somewhere like in a Utah or Colorado-type place. And then maybe if we could hop on a plane and go to a beach, that would be a cool vacation to do both of those things. What are you most proud of? Can you get more specific? I'm just the voice of the listener here. I really can't. You know, I'm very proud of my family. I know that's kind of the answer that probably most people would give.

Yeah, that's a given. I'll say, hey, you've got to throw the family out because obviously they're number one. You've already talked about their, your number one priority. So other than that, other than your family. What are you most proud of? I don't know. I guess I need to think more about that. I should have prepared better for this question.

I think, I mean, the family is the first thing that comes up. I'm really proud, though, I would say, it's hard to say most. I'm really proud. I will tell you, it feels really good, man, Greg. It feels good to get emails from strangers from all over the world, from people that I don't know, and people that didn't know me. And then they write to me and say, I mean, you can just, go to learning leader.com on the contact form, and this is how most people write to me.

And they send me a note about how something inspired or maybe somebody just lost their job and how this kind of helped them in their interview process to get a job to help support their family. Like that is intense stuff, man, that like really, I'm very proud of that. I'm not afraid to share that with people too because it makes me feel really good to get those types of notes from people to say, hey man like this is I didn't know who you were you know I got referred by a friend and I listened to it and it's had a really positive impact on my life like I'm very proud of that I love it I love it in one sentence why do you podcast one sentence I am a very curious person who loves to learn from world class performers

I love it. And you honored the one sentence. I appreciate that. Last question of the lightning round. Who's your dream guest that you haven't yet landed? A combination. I will say Elon Musk and Dave Matthews. That's great.

I was thinking of something witty to say there, and I couldn't even come up with it. For two completely different reasons. Spectrum, yeah. Yeah, and so I, but I would, I love to have conversations with both of those guys. Maybe, maybe hold off on Dave until you're ready to start learning how to play the guitar. I know. I've got to meet him once, which is really neat, but I haven't, like, had to have an in-depth conversation,

but I'd love to understand the way his mind works and how he writes and thinks and his process for putting everything together. It just fascinates me, man. So I'd love to learn about that. That's great. Hey, I've prepared a few more questions. I'd love to ask them to you. Ryan, you and I were, when we were talking about podcasting, man, probably, what, a year and a half ago, we both were very big fans of the medium and had certain podcasters that we loved. You know, I talked to you about my love of Coppulman. I know you like Brian Coppulman as well. Who are some other podcasters that you've learned from as you've kind of developed,

and honed your own skill set? Tim Ferriss, James Altosher, I think. You know, I listen to Startup Podcast, Gimlet Media Startup Podcasts. I listen to Serial. I listen to Bill Simmons and big Bill Simmons fan. I listen to a Jordan Harbinger from The Art of Charm. I now listen to Michael Port from Steel the Show. He speaks primarily about public speaking.

I listen to my brother, AJ. Every time he has an episode, I listen to every single one of those, and we obviously throw ideas back and forth on a daily basis. I'd say those are the core. Lewis Howell is another guy. Those are the core group of people that I listen to. And when you're listening, do you pick up things from them specific things? Are you listening to them the same way that you might watch, you know, a sales rep who

you really admire, go out and hone their craft? Are you watching them to emulate them? Are you just listening and enjoying what they do? I definitely listen to, I appreciate the craft itself, right, and studying the craft of interviewing and asking insightful questions at the right time and giving your guests some room to breathe when they need it, but knowing when you're to interrupt, you know, and so there's a skill, there's an art to that. And so I definitely listen. That's why I think I'm such a big fan of Kauffman like you are, because he's, he's just, it seems so easy and just effortless to that guy. And so that's why I'm, I'm a fan of, you know, it's funny. I also listen to a guy like Dan Carlin, Hardcore History. Yeah. And that guy's just a master

storyteller. And so I'm a big fan of people who can tell great stories. And even if they're reading but making it seem like they're not, like just little things. I listen to all of that. Well, and Dan Carlin is one of those guys that when I see him, when I see a new episode of hardcore history pop up, it's like, it's like a treat, right? I mean, it's one of those days where it's like, wow, I've got three hours of hardcore history that I'm going to get to consume. And one of the things I really appreciate about him. and I also appreciate about you is the hard work that obviously goes into him preparing for the podcast.

And I get that same feeling from you. You, when you're interviewing your guests, you're prepared. You have great questions. You've read their books or you've done enough research to really engage them in that conversation. Can you talk a little bit about that prep? What's your process for having a guest on? and why do you give so much of a, so much of yourself in preparation for the conversation?

So it starts with who I decide to have on the show. I don't reach out to people that I'm not really interested in. And usually for sometimes completely different reasons. So if you're really interested in the person, it's not that hard to do the prep. I do read their books for the most part. If they've written 15 books, I probably haven't read all of them. But, I mean, I do read what they have to say. I read recent articles they've written.

I certainly watch their TED talks. I listen to them if they've been on other podcasts. I do all that. And as I'm doing it, I just have a, you know, I use something like Evernote. And I'm putting notes into my phone or I write them down depending on where I am. If I'm at the gym, I'm usually using some electronic device to stop. And I press pause and I, you know, put it in my phone. Or if I'm reading their book on a Kindle, I will obviously put a note.

and Evernote. The prep is a lot, man. The prep is more than anything else. And I think it's just like when I, it goes back to when I played football. I mean, I lifted a lot of weights. I ran a lot. We practiced a lot. I watched a ton of film.

And I think that preparation from, like I said, from playing football really is very similar to how I approach each and every episode. And I'm not doing the guest justice if I don't do a lot of preparation. I'm not, you know, I always tell them before I, cord, you know, like each person is like a big tree. They have like 50, 60, 70 branches and we could go on any one of them. And I need to be prepared to go on every single one of them, even though we're probably only going to go on like three or four of them, but we're going to go deep on those three or four. And so it's on me to be prepared and to be ready for all of that stuff. And like I said,

it's not as hard when you love it, when you absolutely love it and you love the person that you're speaking to for different reasons, right? I mean, I have a really, a really, a really, you know, a really wide variety of leaders, you know, from depending on what they do. And so I think that's, that's a big part of it. And now the difference is, and I think I've talked you about this before, people kind of pitch you to be on your show now or publicists are kind of reaching out. And so I've often, I mean, I've said yes to some of those, but I've certainly said no to a lot of them because if I'm not really interested in doing the prep for that person, then I'm just going to say no. And I'll, and I'll go fine, even if I have to do a write a bunch of

cold emails, I'll go find somebody that I am interested in. I think that is, that leads right into kind of my final, my wrap-up question. And it's a two-parter. The first part of it is, what are your future plans for the podcast? Well, I plan to continue getting better at it. I plan to continue being very consistent every Wednesday and Sunday night at 7 o'clock Eastern to release an episode. consistency is something that I'm very big on.

So I plan to continue doing that. I would like to do more episodes like this. I will listen to the feedback from our listeners. Not that that completely determines it, but I am anxious to hear and read what our listeners think of this particular episode. I'd like to do more of these. And then it would hopefully lead to other things, which, again, like I mentioned before, speeches, books, potentially, you know,

some work online, teaming up with other people who do this type of work potentially, too. I've had some of those conversations. So I don't have a clear-cut plan written out. The only thing I do know is that I will consistently reach out to world-class leaders from anywhere at all times and try to get them to come on the show so that I can hopefully curate some really good information for people to be inspired by. Ryan, I'm confident that you will continue to inspire and challenge your listeners. I really appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation with you. Thanks for reaching out, and I'm excited for the next 100 episodes.

Thanks, Greg, man. I love it. And thank you for leading this one for me, man. It was great. Absolutely. I look forward to 200. Awesome, man. Thanks, great.

Talk to you. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again and we'll see you next time on the Learning Leader Show.