The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 121: Ryan Michler – How To Build Your 1,000 True Fans

Starting point is 00:00:00 I believe that when we have an idea or an inspiration or a flash of whatever it is, that we have a moral obligation to act on it. Now, you may be spiritual, you may not be, I don't care. The reality is that information is in your brain and you've had that idea for a reason. And for you not to implement that is going against, again, your moral obligation. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk.

Starting point is 00:00:48 Hey, everyone, it's Ryan. I wanted to make a quick announcement. A number of you had sent me emails in regards to asking for a place to further this dialogue with, like-minded people, other listeners, fans, and friends of the Learning Leader show. So I set up a group on Facebook. It's Facebook.com slash groups slash learning leader. It's a closed group. But if you'd like an invite, simply shoot me a quick note and I'd be happy to bring you

Starting point is 00:01:21 into the group. This is a place where we can freely communicate and discuss leadership, learning, creative ideas, podcasting, and new and innovative ways of thinking a place where we could potentially argue a little bit, have an open mind. and have constructive dialogue. I've loved the early response from the people who are already in the group, but simply send me a note. I'll add you to it. I look forward to talking with more of you very soon.

Starting point is 00:01:46 Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk, absolutely thrilled with tonight's featured leaders with my friend Ryan Mickler. Ryan is an Iraqi combat veteran. He's since gone on to create the Order of Man, which is a blog and a podcast. that has grown significantly over the last year. I was fortunate to be a guest on episode number eight of the show near the beginnings of it, and it's incredible to see the growth Ryan has had over the last year. I absolutely love it.

Starting point is 00:02:24 He's also created the Iron Council, which is an elite paid mastermind group. It's something we discussed during this conversation. A few of the other topics we got into, how he's built his tribe and community from one to thousands of people, both some of the philosophical things he believes in, as well as the tactical ways that he's got it done. Then why, if you're a parent, you should read Teddy Roosevelt's speech called The Strenuous Life? And then finally, the specifics that he learned from 12 months of combat missions in Ramadi. Just incredible. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's Ryan Mickler. All right, Ryan, so excited, man, to have you here. I know I was very

Starting point is 00:03:17 fortunate and excited to be a guest on your show, The Order of Man, and now it's so cool for me to have you on the Learning Leaders show here. So first of all, welcome to the show. Thanks, man. I'm stoked to be here too. I really like what you're doing. And I know this is going to be an awesome conversation because part one was an awesome conversation having you on my show. So I'm stoked to have the follow up. Love it. Love it, man. So you've probably heard me talk about the fact that I love studying the art and science of leadership. And especially when it comes to people who are able to sustain excellence over an extended period, I'm fascinated by those people. And I know you've done a great job of not only building up your own tribe, but building it with people who have sustained excellence and reaching out to other world-class leaders from all over the world and talking to them. I'm curious when you have those conversations, what are some of the most common characteristics those people all seem to share? Yeah, you know, how many episodes are you in right now on your show? Over 150.

Starting point is 00:04:14 Oh, so yeah. Okay, yeah. So I'm about half that. 55 episodes recorded and the commonality I see between everybody who's achieved in their life is their ability to execute because I've never met anybody, man, woman, doesn't matter. Anybody who didn't have an idea or a thought or of the vision for what they want their future to actually look like, everybody has an idea. But what separates the people from the ones who are successful from the ones who aren't are the ones who are actually willing to take action and they execute ruthlessly.

Starting point is 00:04:46 They're not afraid to fail. They're not afraid if things aren't perfect. They're just great action takers. And then in addition to being highly motivated with taking action in their lives, they're able to sustain it. They have consistency and they have discipline to do it over a long time, especially when things go bad because they always kind of go wrong and off track. And they have that ability and that drive just to keep moving forward regardless of what life throws at them. Who are the very first people that come to mind when you think of sustained excellence? Wow. Let's see. That's a good question. Are you talking about from the show itself or just in general?

Starting point is 00:05:20 Just like in general. It could be anyone from famous to non-famous and anything in between. Yeah. So a couple of people that come to mind, I mean, a big motivating factor for me was Brett McKay with Art of Manliness. I don't know if you're familiar with the work he does. He's one right off the bat who I think of. He's been doing it for, gosh, eight or nine years now and consistently and religiously putting out information. And this is not just information that's surface level, skim the surface type stuff. This is incredible information. It's detailed and it goes into depth and it's actionable content. So that's one that comes to mind when you talk about excellence. And of course, those are guys who have helped me.

Starting point is 00:05:59 Joe DeSenna is another one with Spartan races. I recently had him on the show. You think about what he's done. You think about what he does on a daily basis and his commitment to himself and his body and the ability to continue to push himself. Those are two guys that I really look up to with their ability to continue to do things throughout just the long haul. Joe DeSenna, man. He was on my show as well.

Starting point is 00:06:21 Oh, he was he on? Yeah. The things that he brought from a dad perspective. I know you talk about this a lot and you write about it in your group. I was just so impressed of what he does every morning with his kids. He's really, I think, putting them in positions to be successful, but doing it in a way where he's showing them. what adversity looks like every day. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:06:43 And I think that's important, especially for someone who's massively successful. He's probably got plenty of money where he can make their lives very comfortable. And he's in fact choosing to do the opposite, which I think is something we all could probably learn from, especially if we've been fortunate to be in a position where we can be, you know, providers and actually provide a lot to make the lives of our children comfortable. But we try our best, at least, to not necessarily do that because that's not what's in their best interest long term. Exactly. There's a great speech. I don't know if you've read this or not, but Teddy Roosevelt has a speech. Just type in the strenuous life and you'll run across it. And he actually talks a lot about this concept. And Joe is somebody who's implementing this not only in his own life and its kids' lives, but literally millions of people across the planet and getting people to do hard things. Not for the sake of it being hard, but for the sake of building up mental toughness and fortitude and resilience to whatever life has to throw with us. So the strenuous life by Teddy Roosevelt. Strenuous Life by 10. I actually have not seen this. Oh, you'll love it, man. You'll eat it up.

Starting point is 00:07:44 I can't wait. Ryan, let's dive into you, man. I, you know, we've, like I said, I've been fortunate to know you and feel like, even though we haven't met in person, but we've had a number of conversations. I was on your podcast. We've emailed. I've asked you questions. We've gone back and forth. So it's, it's cool to have somebody who's more of a friend, even though we haven't met in person on the show. I'd want to learn about, and share with me, one, why you do what you do. First, I think it might be important. for the people who don't know you to explain what you do and then explain why you do it. Sure. Yeah. So order of man is what we do. And really the goal is to create a community that helps men to become better leaders, which ties in perfectly to what you're talking about. We want to help guys be better leaders in their families and in their businesses and their communities. And I see this huge need. And the longer I do this, the more I recognize it because I'm having these types of conversations every day that there is just a lack of manly leadership in the world today. And it's not just men, it's women, too. You know, you look at people who don't have integrity and you look at people who

Starting point is 00:08:43 are just after the dollar. And it's incredible from, you know, the guy down the street, the neighbor down the street or in your church service or all the way up to the presidency of the United States. It's very difficult to actually identify anybody that has these core leadership values that we should look up to and be willing to follow. And so I see a huge need here. We can get into more into that. But really, what that stems from is my childhood. You know, I grew up without a permanent father figure. My dad left me and my mom and my sister when I was three years old. And unfortunately, he chose drugs and alcohol over us. And that's unfortunate.

Starting point is 00:09:19 And then we had a new man coming to my life as a stepfather. And he was an alcoholic. And then I had yet another stepfather coming to my life who was verbally and emotionally abusive. So looking around and growing up, I never really had this idea, this vision or this concept of what it meant to be a man, how it meant to lead a family. to be a husband, to be a father, a community leader, a business owner. And I had to learn a lot of that stuff on my own, which is actually a driving factor and a motivating factor for me starting order of man. It gives me access to have conversations with guys like you and Joe DeSena and some of the

Starting point is 00:09:53 other guys I've talked with. And I've had to learn a lot of the stuff on my own. So I participated in sports. I joined the military. And I really have, over time, started to develop and have an idea of what it means to be a man and how to lead effectively. but this is a journey is for me just as much as anybody else, but specifically where I'm having children now. I've got four kids. I just had another child yesterday. You know, I want to be a good

Starting point is 00:10:18 dad, right? I want to lead them. I want to help them develop into the leaders that they should be and that the community needs from them. And that's really the mission that we're on and that's why I do what I do. It's incredible. I've been fortunate to see the growth of this thing. I feel like I, you know, when we first talked, it was you were still in semi the beginning stages of it. Yeah. And now to see this tribe that you've built of thousands of people, whether it's in Facebook groups or your private or your mastermind group that you've put together the Iron Council, it's really neat for me to be able to see it on this end.

Starting point is 00:10:55 And I know we were talking before, but it blows my mind that you had a child yesterday, your wife and you were in the hospital. I saw the picture. My first thought was, we're going to have to reschedule this thing. And it just shows you that you needed maybe an hour break where we could have a quick talk. Well, and not only that, Ryan, so this is a testament to you as well. I literally probably had to reschedule maybe, you know, looking at my calendar, probably six or seven different meetings over the last couple of days. But this is one that I wanted to keep because I wanted to have this conversation with you.

Starting point is 00:11:26 So, man, thank you. There you go. That's awesome. And I needed a break. I hope your wife understands when you just tell her, hey, I have to go do this podcast real quick while she's sitting with your new son. but she must be a good wife. No, she is. She's an amazing woman, so she gets it.

Starting point is 00:11:39 Speaking of that, that's another thing that you talk about quite a bit. Because when you announced, you know, you're explaining exactly what you do and why you do it. A lot of thoughts came to mind, but I want to think of that first from you being a husband and being a dad to now four children. And you write about this and talk about it a lot. Yeah. Given the fact that, let me take it back a little bit. So I have kind of the opposite, actually almost the incomplete opposite upbringing as you.

Starting point is 00:12:09 And then we talked about this when I was on your podcast. The fact that I have two incredibly supportive parents still are to this day. They're incredible. I talk to them almost every single day, both my mom and my dad, who have shown me what it's like the example for what it's like to have a great marriage and to be great parents. And now I'm obviously married and have children as well. And so to me, I'm not sure how I would be without that. I mean, I can't fathom it. And so you have, usually the cycle repeats itself when you've had father figures like you've had.

Starting point is 00:12:43 Typically, it does. It just, you would become an alcoholic and treat people poorly. And it's really sad. It's unfortunate. So where was the point in your life that you thought, you know what? That's not going to be me. I'm not going to allow that to happen for my wife and my wife. children. Well, so I know all of us have heard that you're a product of your surroundings. And as much

Starting point is 00:13:04 as that phrase is true, I don't really like it because it almost says that it's just going to happen by default, that you have no choice or no say in the matter. But the reality is that you get to decide your surroundings. You get to decide your environment. And how many of us are actually deliberate about that. So as I was growing up, I didn't have any frame of reference. I mean, this was just life, right? This is how life was. This is how day-to-day operations in the business of the family went. So I didn't have any insight into could this or should this be different than what it actually is. And that became aware, I became aware of that, probably in high school, early high school. I remember looking around and seeing my buddies, you know, play baseball, that

Starting point is 00:13:44 that American dream, right, the perfect picture, the dads in the backyard playing catch with their sons. And I saw some of that. I saw dads taking their sons on campouts. And I didn't have any of that. I said, whoa, maybe this is different. But it was always interesting because I felt really out of place when I would be around the guys. Not completely uncomfortable where I wouldn't go hang out with my friends, but just a little awkward, a little different. It just didn't quite seem right. And I was heavily involved with sports. So I played football in high school and I wrestled and I played baseball as well. And so I had some of that experience there. And then I joined the military, like I said as well. And so to see how guys

Starting point is 00:14:23 interact with each other, to start recognizing and then comparing and contrasting differences in leadership style. Who's a guy here that I would follow versus who is somebody that I would not follow? And then starting to articulate and identify the kind of man that I wanted to be. So just because you may not have come up in an environment that allows you to succeed in whatever area of life, whether it's wealth or your health or fitness goals or just being a man or a woman in general, doesn't mean you can't have it. It just means you might need to be a little bit more deliberate about going out there to

Starting point is 00:14:56 actively find it on your own. The one thing about your group is the fact that it's all men. And I'm curious, what about women leaders and females and getting them involved in the group? Why is it specifically just for men? You know, that's a really good question. It's one that actually gets brought up a lot. In fact, when I make a post or a Facebook post, for example, a lot of people will say to me, well, this applies to women, too. And that might be true. There's a lot of principles that we talk about that go across

Starting point is 00:15:27 genders. This is not information that's exclusive to men. But the reality is that I know more about being a man than I know about being a woman. So that's number one. The other side of it, though, is that when you get a man and a woman together, it changes the dynamic. It changes the conversation. I'm not going to say that it's bad. It's certainly not because women and men complement each other. My wife and I are different, but we're perfect together. So I wanted to create an environment where men could come and have conversations that are real and they're raw, they're authentic. And we can say what needs to be said because it's only men listening. Now, that doesn't mean that we're beating up on women or we're talking down. In fact, if anything, it's the exact opposite. You've seen the post that I have and how I feel about my wife and my daughter and other women who are leaders like you're talking about. But I wanted to have this conversation in a way that was an environment where men felt like, hey, I can really say what needs to be said free of judgment or free from that dynamic that changes when a woman is involved. And then I can go out into the world and I can be more effective not only with the men in my life, but also with the women that I want to honor my life as well.

Starting point is 00:16:38 That's why we've done it that way. Do you ever get women who say it's sexist to not have them included? I've never had anybody say that. And I think the reason I haven't had anybody say that is because the conversation I'm, having is not a sexist conversation at all. In fact, it's it's something different. It's, hey, guys, let's be the men that we can be so that we can go out and we can serve the people we need to serve. We can serve our families, which includes our daughters and our wives. We can go out and serve our community and we can go out and serve our coworkers. We can go out and serve our boss. We can go out

Starting point is 00:17:11 and serve whoever it is, regardless if it's a man or a woman. So I've never had anybody say this is a sexist group or anything like that. Yeah, I mean, I think it would only be. from people who don't actually read the content and read and listen to what you say and what you do. I mean, it would only be just because they hear the title of it and see that the group is those only guys. Because once you dig into it and read it, you're right. It's the exact opposite. In fact, it's, it's, I read them and am inspired by him because it's, it's obvious that

Starting point is 00:17:40 they're very well thought out, especially from you when you're the one posting in the group, as well as you're just a thoughtful guy. And I think that's, that's, that's, that's the way. to lead. You're thinking of others and you're thinking a lot of your being a dad and being a husband, which I think is really admirable. Well, and Ryan, can I say one other thing on that? What's really interesting is you would be surprised at how often I get emails and Facebook messages and text from women that say, Ryan, I want to do the same thing you're doing, but for women. So they see the value and the power of it and how this can be when you talk with just women or you talk

Starting point is 00:18:19 with just men so that, again, you can go out into the world and serve each other better. One of the things you don't talk a lot about, or at least you, from time to time, I just saw this posted recently. I mean, you have protected and fought for our freedom. You're in Ramadi. You're in one of the worst places on the face of this earth during a time when, and I didn't realize this until recently. And when we were, you know, fighting a war, why?

Starting point is 00:18:44 It doesn't seem like, maybe it's just because I haven't paid enough to attention, but it feels like that is a massive deal, a huge sacrifice that you've done. I love to hear, and I've, I've been very fortunate to speak with a number of guys who, whether they're Navy SEALs or Army Rangers, people who have been in the thick of it, and that's you as well. Talk to me about the time you spent in the military, in the middle, I mean, because if you've, like, I think of the movie American Sniper, Romani was one of the scenes in that movie. And that's, you know, a lot of us who or not in the military, that's kind of the lens in which we see some of these things, whether it's books or movies. But talk me about that experience. And one, like how long you were there,

Starting point is 00:19:23 why you decided to go to the military and some of the things that you learned from it. Yeah, so I joined the military right as a senior in high school. I actually joined the National Guard. And if you're familiar with that, it's more of a state funded. So it's taking care of local emergencies and natural disasters. But as we got into September 11th and some of the turmoil in the Middle East, they started to activate these National Guard units. And so in 2003, I was supposed to go to Iraq. And we ended up pulling the plug on that a week before we were supposed to leave. So we didn't end up going that time. And then they eventually called us back in 2005. And we did serve in Ramadi. I was gone for 18 months, but I was in Ramadi for a year of my life. And I remember getting to

Starting point is 00:20:09 the base. And it was just surreal. It was like a movie. I just couldn't believe what was happening in how we got into this situation. And looking back where my life was, you know, two, three, four years prior to that, where I was now. And it was really sobering. You know, I walked into the, the, building that I was going to be working at for the next year. And I remember seeing 14 pictures on the wall. And I asked one of the captains there who was at the building I was at what those pictures represented. And he said that those were the soldiers they lost in the year that they were there. And man, that was just really eye-opening about the experience and what we were in for for the next 12 months because we were replacing this unit. We were going to be doing the exact same things they were doing.

Starting point is 00:20:52 And we went through our tour, our 12 months in Iraq. And we didn't lose a single member of our unit. We did lose one colonel who was attached to our unit earlier, but not a single member of our unit. which is pretty incredible. I feel really blessed because there wasn't a day that went by where our base and the surrounding area didn't get hit with a rocket and mortar. And so it was a crazy time. I feel honored to serve.

Starting point is 00:21:25 I used to not know how to answer the question or the response when people would say to me, hey, thank you for your service. I didn't know how to answer that. And at this point, it's a simple, you know, it's my honor. And that's how I feel about it. You talk about not posting. The reason I'm kind of cautious. I think anybody who served feels this way as well is I don't ever want it to be or come

Starting point is 00:21:47 across as me gaming my time in the military because that's not why I did it. I didn't do it as a marketing tactic. I don't want to exploit the time that I spent overseas. But I think, and I'm beginning to realize now, it's not necessarily a matter of gaming it or exploitation. It's a matter of taking the lessons that were hard earned and fought for and then being able to impart that into other people that actually can benefit from the information and the experiences that I've had.

Starting point is 00:22:15 It's, well, thank you for that service. I think it's incredible. I admire people who are, it's more than admire, but I admire this, the service and the willingness to go over there and do that, especially from those of us who have not done it. It, you know, it's just incredible. And so thank you for that. And I understand it now a little bit better why you don't. And I think it's admirable the way you approach that.

Starting point is 00:22:39 Yeah, well, like I said, my honor, I mean, it was a great learning opportunity. I was talking to my wife about it the other day. And it's hard to say, you know, I'd go back and I'd do that again because it was a difficult time. But I'm fond of the time that I spent there. I built some amazing bonds. I have conversations with some of the guys that I spent time with overseas. And I learned a lot about what it means to be not only a man, but just a human being. and how well we can treat each other and then how poorly we can treat each other and the difference between that and how to take some of the lessons of discipline and commitment and dedication into my daily life, which has helped me to succeed in life.

Starting point is 00:23:18 It's awesome, man. I love it. I want to shift gears a little bit now and talk more about the community you've built. Yeah. So I'm a part of your group. It's a closed group called Order of Man on Facebook and then your website Order of Man, which is obviously a mix between blog, great information you share as well as your podcast, which is fortunate to be on.

Starting point is 00:23:42 And I see as of right now you have probably when this airs you probably have over 3,000, but you have just under 3,000 members in this closed Facebook group that it's not only a group of thousands of people. However, it's a highly engaged group of people. Talk to me about what that was like in the beginnings of, this group and really how you've been able to build such a tight, engaged tribe. I think a lot of people want to do this and a lot of people fail at it and you're successfully doing it as we speak. Yeah. So when I started this project Order of Man, my vision, and I didn't know exactly what this looked like, but my vision was to create a tribe, a community, this organization, right, a brotherhood,

Starting point is 00:24:28 whatever you want to call it, fraternity. I don't care. It doesn't matter. But an organization. And I didn't know how I was going to accomplish that, but I think I must have been listening to, it might have been somebody Pat Flynn had on one of his shows. And he was talking about a Facebook group. And I said, well, maybe I'll give that a try because I had a Facebook page at the time, but I wasn't getting a lot of engagement. I had a couple of likes here and there when I would post a new article or whatever. Like pages are so different than groups. Yeah, they are. Like pages, unless you boost those posts, nobody really ever sees them.

Starting point is 00:24:58 The Facebook almost forces you to boost them for people to see them when I'm. Because I have like page button and when I post on it, I have to boost it if I want anyone to ever see it, which is, it's kind of a shame, but that's just how it is. Yeah. So anybody that has a brand, I mean, a community, this group is what we're talking about as opposed to a page, is completely different because people join these groups and then they get notifications. So they're going to see just about every post that comes up unless they turn those posts off or decide not to participate. So people are seeing this. but the goal was to create a community and a place where all of us could have a conversation. So it wasn't about me.

Starting point is 00:25:37 It was about me facilitating a conversation. So when I started, you know, I had maybe what, 10, 20, 100 guys on there. And it grew over time and it's continuing to grow exponentially. But I had to post a lot of information, a lot of questions. And it wasn't like, hey, check out my latest blog post or check out my latest podcast. No, it was, what are you struggling with as a man? What can we help you do? Right?

Starting point is 00:26:02 So it was a lot of these open-ended questions. So from day one, it was about facilitating a conversation, not showing off my work. And I think that's where a lot of people fall short is they'll build this community. And let's say they grow it up to 3, 5, 10,000, 100,000 people. And they'll just exploit it for every opportunity to sell their wares, their products and their services and everything that they have to offer. And although it can be used for that, I really want to develop a place where guys, can just have a meaningful conversation with other men free from judgment and just talk some of this stuff out. And sometimes we just say things the way that you need to hear it. It might be a

Starting point is 00:26:40 little bit in your face, but as guys, that's what we need to hear at times. So if you're looking at creating a community like this, I really think you ought to take a good look at the way you're going to do it and really focus on providing a ton of value and creating the platform for thousands of other people to have a conversation about topics that are interesting and important to you. I'm definitely interested in this. I think I was messaging with you months ago about doing this. I created my own. I have not actively invested any time really in trying to do it yet because I wanted to understand fully the best way to do it.

Starting point is 00:27:19 And that's partially why I wouldn't have this conversation to learn a little bit more about this. So take me back to the very beginning when you had 10 guys. in it. And we're looking, you know, I don't know, when exactly did you start this? So I started Order of Man. It's been a year as of, we're recording the first part of April. So it's been, it's been a year now. And I want to say I've started the group probably six or seven months ago. So I was, I was well into building up everything else prior to getting this group launched. And yeah, like I said, I meant 10 guys. And it was my buddies. It was my friends who I invited. And some of them, I didn't even ask. I just included.

Starting point is 00:27:57 at them and probably don't do that. Looking back at it now, make sure they're joining it. Exactly. Yeah. So I did that. And then what I did is I've got this platform of the podcast that I've been going for five, six months, just like you do now. I mean, you've been doing this for how long you've been doing the podcast?

Starting point is 00:28:13 A year? Okay, yeah. And so you're twice a week. Is that right? That's right. Okay. So you've got, you know, thousands and thousands, tens of thousands of people listening to this podcast.

Starting point is 00:28:22 This is an opportunity for you to continue the conversation. So that's what I did. So on my podcast. I went out and I said, hey, guys, those of you who are listening to this podcast, if you want to continue the conversation we're having about leadership with Ryan Hawk, then I invite you to join me over on our Facebook group. Check it out over there. I'm going to post some questions. You're going to answer those questions. If you have questions, you're going to ask those and the rest of the guys are going to give you their insights and their experiences so that you can draw from this wealth of knowledge. So you've already got the platform. And I'm sure other people have platforms, whether it's a blog post or maybe that's a YouTube channel or even other social media sites to start. bringing these people into this community to be able to have this centralized conversation that we do on our Facebook group. Well, yeah, and I think the key is it's not just all about you. It's that the group, somebody will post a question or post something, and he'll have nine responses from nine different guys all over the world giving feedback, which is it becomes this incredibly valuable place for people to go, maybe if they're struggling or maybe even to celebrate, or anything in between, which is critical. that yes, you're obviously highly engaged and you're involved with it.

Starting point is 00:29:31 And it's, you know, there's a video of you at the top of it. But it's the power of the group is in the actual group and in the people. And I think that's what Admiral Blatton. And that's what people try to build and aren't always able to do it. Well, and if you've, have you read, have you had Gary Vaynerchuk on the show yet? Yeah. Okay. So have you read Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook?

Starting point is 00:29:51 Yeah. I mean, this is the concept we're talking about, right? Everybody wants to come in with the right hook, which is, you know, buy stuff. from me, here's what I have to offer, listen to my podcast, rate my show, and all of these asks, and those are the right hooks, and those are appropriate at certain times, but you've got a jab, meaning you've got to give, give, give, give, and then every once in a while you can ask. So I'm trying to create a place where guys can have these valuable conversations from themselves, and we're giving, and we're giving, and we're giving value and insights and strategies

Starting point is 00:30:20 and ideas, and every once in a while I can come out to these guys and say, hey, you know what, check out this last show. I think it'd be valuable for you. And they do because they see that I care about them, not only about my bottom line. And that's a leadership principle, if there ever was one, right? That's probably the first leadership principle, serve first. And then you take it a step further with your Iron Council. Tell me what that's all about why you decided to start it and what it entails.

Starting point is 00:30:48 So like you said, I mean, we've got just about 3,000 members of our Facebook group, which is great. And a lot of these guys are having some amazing conversations. But what started to come from these conversations is, okay, this is great information, but now what? What do I do with this information? And I think that's the biggest disconnect in modern society. Technology is incredible. And the rate at which we can consume information is unmatched like any other time in the history of our planet. If you give me a book recommendation, I just gave you jab, jab, jab, jab, right hook.

Starting point is 00:31:19 In 60 seconds, you can literally be reading that book. That's incredible to me. But the reality is there's a huge disconnect between the information that we have and we know and put into our brains and what we're actually doing in our lives. And it creates this source of contention and frustration because we have all of this great information. And then we're frustrated because we're not actually implementing anything into our lives. And so that's where Iron Council was born, which is our elite mastermind. So out of the 3,000 guys who are having this conversation, there's always, always, always. a select few who are willing to take the next step, which means I like this information so

Starting point is 00:31:59 much so that I'm willing to step up and I'm willing to start putting this into play. And that's what the Iron Council is all about. So it's a paid mastermind group where we have 65 members, I think, right now. And they literally were having conversations every week about what it means to be a man from leadership and health and wealth and relationships, all of the conversations we're having. but then we have this extra component. And this was something that I drew from my time in the military service, and I call it a battle brother. So we're literally assigned with another member of the council to hold us accountable, to talk about each other's goals and visions, and then to hold each other accountable throughout the week and actually getting these things done.

Starting point is 00:32:40 So every month, you're paired with a new battle brother. We do weekly challenges, daily assignments. That way we're actually implementing the stuff we learn, not just having some great conversations about it. So how much, what's the, I'm just getting tactual. So you have how many members again? We have 60, I think we have 67, 66, 67, right in there somewhere. It may have changed a little bit, but it's right in there. Is there a cap on that?

Starting point is 00:33:04 Because like, do you have weekly talks? And this is one thing I'm not a part of. So you have weekly talks or how does this go as the full group and then you drill down? Yeah. So we have a weekly virtual mastermind meeting essentially is what we have. So we have the guys jump on those calls. And then they have assignment. they complete every single week, and it could be on whatever topic of the week is,

Starting point is 00:33:23 so they complete that assignment. Here's my concern is that I don't want it to get so big that it loses the intimacy of what's available and actually taking action and holding each other accountable, and that's why we've developed this battle brother system, but we've also incorporated team leaders as well. And so are you familiar with Jock O'Link and his book Extreme Ownership? Okay. Yeah, he's awesome. He is awesome.

Starting point is 00:33:47 Incredible man and an incredible leader. he talks about something in his book, Extreme Ownership, called Decentralized Command, which means that at some point you're going to have to give some authority to somebody else so that you can make sure things you get accomplished on the fly, and your team is a little bit more nimble, is able to be flexible, and is able to move and adapt to situations that needs to move and adapt to. So if you have to do it all, not only from a business perspective, is it not scalable, but from a service perspective, it's not helpful.

Starting point is 00:34:16 So I've incorporated team leaders and these team leaders within Iron Council are supporting teams of 10 to 12 guys. So we have internal competitions where we are going to compete in different things, friendly competitions. And that's just how guys operate and guys thrive. So that's a cool thing. But then it allows some more individualized attention that I wouldn't be able to give on my own had I just gone by myself and said, nope, I'm the leader and had that arrogance or that ego going.

Starting point is 00:34:44 and it would lose a lot of what I think is valuable of the group. Very interesting. How did you come up with all of this? Well, so here's the thing is that there is, I mean, if you just pause and reflect and you look around, you're going to find so much information is available. There is truth everywhere. We are surrounded by truth, but we're so busy being consumed with doing every single minute of every single day that we forget to stop and look.

Starting point is 00:35:14 So I could have some inspiration from the local hospital billboard sign that I saw on the way to work today. And it could be something I can corporate. I could read extreme ownership by Jocko and I could say, decentralized command. Interesting. How can I use this information? And I can jot that down and I can start implementing it. See, it's all about taking action. But first, you've got to be deliberate about pausing, reflecting, looking about how you want to plan out your day.

Starting point is 00:35:42 And then this is even bigger because we hear a lot about morning ritual. and morning routines and everybody has one and why you should have one and the Miracle Morning by Al-Elrod, which is a great book. And I'm not downplaying any of that. I think it's very valuable. I have my own morning routine. But what we forget is we forget that evening routine. I call it an after-action review. We forget to look back and say, all right, what happened today? What did I learn? What could I have done differently? What did I accomplish? What did I not accomplish? and how can I improve tomorrow? So look around, pause, reflect, think about your day, think about your life, try to take lessons

Starting point is 00:36:15 from everywhere. What are you looking at right now? You're listening to this podcast. What lesson is being taught that you actually need to implement into your life to improve whatever it is you're trying to improve with? A question I like to ask people when we talk about ideas and then the execution of those, and you kind of just answered it, but I want to ask it in a different way. We do a good job, I think, as leaders.

Starting point is 00:36:38 as people who are, people who listen to podcasts, as you know this as being a podcaster, typically it's the smartest, most, the most affluent groups of people take time to listen to podcast. That's why advertisers love podcasting so much because it's people who have disposable income, people who have money to buy their products. Basically what I'm trying to say is really smart people listen to podcasts and people who, frankly, are not that smart, don't. But so the people listening are the types of people who,

Starting point is 00:37:08 go to leadership conferences, who join masterminds, who maybe pay for a coach. And I think as a whole, we do a great job, these groups, and me included, of taking great notes, of learning, of getting ideas. But also as a whole, we struggle to implement and to execute. Yes. So what are a few, I don't know, it might not only be a few, but what are our few tips that you could give to say to get better? because this is something it's obvious you've done.

Starting point is 00:37:40 What are some things people who do a good job of taking copious notes at these events, but then they get back to their cubicle or their office, and they put that notebook in their bag, and they don't look at it again, and then nothing happens, nothing changes. The crush of stuff, as my dad would tell me,

Starting point is 00:37:56 gets back in the way, and they just kind of answer email and go about their day. How do you implement and execute? Well, I think there's two things I can give you here. Number one is mindset. and I don't want to take a cop out and say, oh, just change your mindset and everything else will change. It is that, but let me go into depth.

Starting point is 00:38:13 I believe that when we have an idea or an inspiration or a flash of whatever it is, that we have a moral obligation to act on it. Now, you may be spiritual, you may not be, I don't care. The reality is that information is in your brain and you've had that idea for a reason. and for you not to implement that is going against, again, your moral obligation. All right. So that's my mindset about action. When there's something I'm presented with, I just feel like I just owe it to the creator

Starting point is 00:38:49 and I owe it to myself to take action on whatever that idea is. And I'm not concerned that things won't work out. I'm not concerned if I fail because worst case scenario, I'm just going to learn something new. And there's a reason why I needed to act on that information. So take that for what it's worth. That's the mindset component. Now, to get down to the tactical level, I think we're going about the way that we plan

Starting point is 00:39:11 out our day completely backwards, just completely wrong. It doesn't work. And it's this myth of multitasking. So I've got a spreadsheet. It's a simple spreadsheet I created on Excel where I go through every day and I list out every single thing that I need to get accomplished for the day. So I've got, you know, 10, 15, 20 things, whatever's on that list. And what traditional wisdom, conventional wisdom says is that,

Starting point is 00:39:33 well, you need to group these categories into A and these tasks are B categories and these ones are C's and if I can get to those I can, but I really need to do these things. And what I'm suggesting to you is that you don't do the A, B, C or the one, two, three system. You just look at that list, the entire list, scan through your 20 items for any given day and you look at it and you decide what is the one thing that I can implement that is A, very easy to implement, and B, will yield the highest results for my day and then forget everything else. So you're just focusing on that. So I know everybody here is obviously big into learning. Gary Keller, the founder and owner of Keller Williams, I think it's like the largest real estate agency in the world. I think I don't

Starting point is 00:40:20 miss quote me on that. I don't know for sure. But he wrote a book called The One Thing and he talks about this a lot. Focus on that one task. Forget everything else. When you get that task accomplished, then and only then are you able to move on to the next tax. Now, how do you determine what the next task is? You look at that list again and you say, what is the thing that I can implement and do right now? That's the easiest and will yield the best results. And you get that done and you go through your day like that.

Starting point is 00:40:51 It's going to help you be more focused on what you want to get accomplished. It's going to help you be more effective in the things that you are because you're picking the highest yielding tasks. And it's going to build flexibility into your day because what happens? if at lunchtime an emergency comes up or a new opportunity comes up. Well, if you're so rigid in your plan that you've got your entire day planned out without any flexibility, you're never going to be able to act, excuse me, on that new bound information throughout the day. Does that give you an idea?

Starting point is 00:41:19 I love it. Clayton Morris was on earlier. He's on Fox News, but also huge in the real estate. And he brought up Gary Keller and the one thing and focusing on it. And I think it's, again, it's an idea, but it needs to be implemented, just like anything else. And I think it's important to, like, once this podcast is over, to sit there and think for a few minutes and write things down and then focus on a way to actually implement doing that one big thing or getting things done, as Dave Allen would say. And I think there's a lot there. I love the fact that you tackle that question in two different ways, kind of philosophically as well as tactically to say, here's actually the mechanics around getting something done. it makes a lot of sense. Well, you need both because if you only have the mindset component,

Starting point is 00:42:06 I mean, we've got a lot of dreamers out there. And it's really nice that you're dreaming big and you have big goals for the future. And that's really special. But at the end of the day, if you don't have the tactical ability to get accomplished, big deal. But the other side is if you're more tactical and you're more action oriented, well, you could be going out there and doing a thousand things and none of them are actually going to make an impact because you haven't taken a step back and looked at the bigger picture. So you do need to have both.

Starting point is 00:42:30 Yeah, absolutely. It's critical. It is absolutely critical to have both. Now, the most recently, you and I've been talking a little bit about your focus. And one of the things that you've been focusing on are the three P's of masculinity. And I'd love to hear you expand more on what those three P's are and why they're important to you. Yeah. So I've thought a lot about this, obviously. And I didn't have this very, very articulated when I started Order of Man about what it meant to be a man. And in fact, I've had had to push back about the things that I think it means to be a man are actually what it means to be a woman, what it means to be a human being in general, right? And I think that's true to a degree. But as I've thought about this more, and I've had conversations now with 55 plus men about this idea and this concept of masculinity, I've come to the conclusion that to be a man, I think there's three main priorities, three main tasks or overarching goals that we have. And the first one is to be a protector, right? So we need to be a protector. And I can elaborate on this or I can go through, you tell me, I mean, you want me to elaborate more or you want me to go through them all first?

Starting point is 00:43:37 Go through them first and then elaborate on them. All right. So protector number one. The second one is to produce, right? To produce new ideas, new information, provide for your family. All right. So they're protect, provide. And then the third one is to preside, to actually be the leader.

Starting point is 00:43:56 So those are the three. that it means to be a man. Now, we can break those down if you want. Yeah, definitely. All right. So the first one, again, protect. All right. So what does it mean to protect?

Starting point is 00:44:06 Here's what I think. There's been a lot of information in the world, or not information, just activity in the world, especially when you get, for example, to these active shooter-type situations. All right. So if you look at an emergency or you look at a natural disaster or you look at a crime, the reality is, although women are better able to protect themselves than they ever have been, at the end of the day, people are going to look to the man to be the protector. Are you protecting your family? Do you know how to handle a crisis? Do you know how to save people,

Starting point is 00:44:37 how to rescue people, how to get them into a position of safety? Because that's your job. If you're a father, that's your job. Protect your children. If you're a husband, your job is to protect your wife. If you're a community leader, your job is to protect your community. If you're a business and you're just a man in general, you need to protect your coworkers. Those are people that you've signed on to protect, whether you wrote a contract out for it or just made this agreement in your head that because I'm here, I'm the protector. And that's what I'm talking about when I talk about protecting is that you need to be looking after people. You need to be guarding those people.

Starting point is 00:45:14 You need to have their interest in the top, in the forefront of your mind. and you need to be mentally ready for that, and you need to be physically ready for that as well. Does that make some sense? Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. So the next is to provide. Now, this one's changed,

Starting point is 00:45:30 and a lot of people will push back with me on this because in society, and again, this is just the evolution of society in the way it is. Sometimes we hear this thing like there's an attack on masculinity. I'm not sure there's necessarily an attack or if it's just evolution of the way things have progressed and men have done it to themselves.

Starting point is 00:45:47 But there's women, entering the workforce like they have not been in the future, in the past, excuse me, and they're making money and they're able to provide. And a lot of times you even hear situations where there's a husband and a wife and the wife is the breadwinner and the husband stays home. And if that works for your situation, that's excellent. But traditionally, the men are the providers, right? This is biologically ingrained in us. This is how we were developed. This is how we have evolved. And so at the end of the day, I truly believe that it's the man's job to provide for the people again that he said he would provide for. So it's a matter of putting the roof over your family's head, giving them a place to

Starting point is 00:46:28 stay, making sure there's enough income coming into the household to not only fill their wants, but also fill their needs. Like, I don't want, I look at my family and I don't want us to get by. I want us to have abundance. I want us to have experiences and opportunities that I didn't get when I was a child. So provide is the second P. Gotcha. And then the third is to preside. This is exactly, Ryan, what we're talking about, what you talk about in your podcast, to be the leader, right? To understand how to serve people. To understand that it's them that are important and that you're there to serve them. You're there to lift them up. And I look at a definition of a leader, and I'm sure you've gone through this a thousand times with other people, is somebody who will help others get to a place that they,

Starting point is 00:47:14 could not have imagined or could not have gotten on their own. That's the job of a leader. So if I look at my job as a father, for example, my job is not to shield my children. My job is not to wrap them up on a little bubble wrap and make sure nothing ever happens to them. My job is to expose them to some of those heartaches and the frustrations and the setbacks of life because I need to get them mentally and physically prepared to be leaders of their own. My job is so that 18 rolls around, my kids can now go out into the world, do their own thing, build their own families, start their own businesses, and do it on their own without the help of me. So we talk a lot about presiding over your family, presiding over your community, and presiding over your business.

Starting point is 00:48:02 Yeah, if you have the desire to see others around you succeed, that is why you lead. Simon Sinek said that on this podcast, and it just blew me away in its simplicity. I absolutely love it. I've repeated a million times since then. I've repeated in speeches I've given. And it means, it makes so much sense whether, like you mentioned, you're leading, your family, your business, whatever may be, but us leaders have the desire to see those people succeed. And that is why we lead. And we're there to help not only grow people to follow, but for you, especially we're talking about children. We're working hard to grow leaders themselves. And leaders, the best ones in the world, typically have gotten there because they've been able to handle adversity better than the ones who,

Starting point is 00:48:48 better than the poor leaders around. I think we all have experiences with those types of people, the ones who we've seen that they focus heavily, not necessarily on what happens to them, but they focus heavily on their response and how I decide and the attitude I choose to have in the face of adversity is so critical to then what eventually happens and what you've been able to take from that experience. And that's why I really like what you're focusing on now because I think it makes a lot of sense. Well, and it's interesting to me. I mean, we're having this conversation about children.

Starting point is 00:49:21 What we're actually doing to our children when we give them a trophy for everything and we shelter them from any negativity or any consequence of even their action. And we think that we're helping or that shows more love. And in all reality, it's being selfish. You know, you're being selfish. You're crippling children when you don't allow them to experience life in a controlled environment so that when they get out in an uncontrolled environment, they're better able to adapt and handle themselves. It's so true.

Starting point is 00:49:49 And we've seen examples of it out there of some parents who are standing up to it. And there's even then people hating on them. And this is something I personally struggle with. A lot of the like soccer leagues and things are children playing. They do have those types of rules. At the end of the season, you know, everyone gets their. trophy and I'm like, what do we, this is like, I'm shocked. Like I read about those things and I hear about them.

Starting point is 00:50:12 Then to actually have it happen directly, it almost kind of puts you on your heels like, whoa, what am I supposed to do? This is not certainly not how I grew up. Right. And it's something I think all of us need to be better prepared for because it's actually not just something we're reading about, but it's happening in real life to many of us. Well, and then you're not going to get a trope. I mean, when's the last time one of your listeners sent you a trophy for putting out a

Starting point is 00:50:34 great podcast. Like you're not going to get, I mean, you might get a pat on the back or an email every once in a while. It's like if you work in the profession of sales and let's say, you know, everyone in sales has a quota and let's say you finish it 65% of that quota. Do you know what's going to happen to you? Right. Right. You're going to get fired. And that's, and you're not, you're certainly not getting a trophy because you came into work and you gave it your best or you tried hard. No, you got to produce, as you said. You know, you got to be a provider. You got to produce for if you happen to work at a company or if you're running a small business, whatever it may be, that's part of the deal. If you fail at that or if you, Ryan, if you fail to deliver to the iron

Starting point is 00:51:14 council or to your group and you're not there as a leader, what's going to happen? It's going to slowly probably go away. You're certainly not going to be getting any trophies for that. So it's very, I think that the trophy thing too, as you mentioned, it's selfish. And that's, that's absolutely right because it's just easier. It's so much easier because then you don't have to deal with a kid who's upset. Of course. So you get in the car and everybody's happy. You're like, wow, great. Let's go get ice cream and we go home. And it's just so much easier on everybody as opposed to having to deal with those tough moments, which are, I think we can probably all draw from some of those tougher moments in our formative years growing up to where we lost or

Starting point is 00:51:53 something bad happened or we got hurt or whatever it may be that has made us stronger and what we are today and it's just absolutely critical to go through those experiences. You know what's interesting is I coach both of my boys, well, three now, I'm not used to saying that, but my two oldest boys, I coach their baseball teams. And at the end of every game, I sit down, I talk with him, we talk about what went well and we talk about most importantly what didn't go so well, where we need to improve. And I actually had a parent tell me, hey, maybe you shouldn't focus on this stuff. And I laughed at this parent because it's ridiculous to not, your kids.

Starting point is 00:52:29 kids. I mean, this is a thing. Your kids are special, okay? They're important and they're great and they're cute and everything else. But my job is to help prepare them, help them realize where they can be stronger and they're not as special. Even my kids, as special as we think they are. And so I really focus on with my boys is, hey, guys, here's what you're good at. You're good at these things. Here's what you're not so great at. And here's why you need to understand where your strength and weaknesses are so you can focus on your strengths, but then also you can build up your weaknesses. That's important. We need both. We need to understand there are both. So anyways, I'm going to start getting on a soapbox here in a little bit. But yeah, I want to be

Starting point is 00:53:08 careful of that. But that's, that's where we're at. Well, I was going to ask you how do the other parents respond? Because I can imagine that you might have more haters than supporters. No, it's actually the opposite way around is that most of the parents are extremely supportive of the way that we coach because they understand and recognize that they have their children in these programs to develop and grow not only on the field but in life. And so a lot of these, I mean, you're an athlete and a lot of what we learn from athletics is basically just a metaphor for life. That's why I think athletics are so important. That competition, how to win, how to lose, how to work as a team, how to experience setback and realize that you don't have

Starting point is 00:53:46 it all, but you can if you focus and work hard and you're committed to yourself and the team and everything else. I think it's so valuable. That is great to hear. I love that. Ryan, I got one more question. You got to get back to the newborn baby and your other children. My question is, when you hear the phrase learning leader, what's the first thing you think of? I think it's being humble to realize that you don't know it all. And I think that's what makes a great leader. I don't think anybody can be a great leader without understanding, at least knowing to some degree that there's new information they can learn. And so I would suggest that you never be above getting new information, whether that's listening to this podcast,

Starting point is 00:54:27 or reading a book, or even looking at your team and recognizing that maybe this guy on my team who just started actually has something to say, actually has some value that can uplift the team and help accomplish because at the end of the day, your ego doesn't matter, the results do. And leaders understand that, and they're humble enough to fill the mission with however they can do that. Love it, man. It's great. Ryan, thank you so much for being here, man.

Starting point is 00:54:54 Where would you send everyone to find more about you online? Order of man.com. That's our home base. So you can check us out over there. We'd love to have you in the group, which is Facebook.com slash groups slash order of man. Between those two resources, you can find out everything that we're doing. And we'd love to have you check us out and get involved and hear about your insights and your experiences to help everybody in the community. Awesome. Well, thanks so much again for being here, man.

Starting point is 00:55:18 You absolutely brought it. And I can appreciate that. I'm not surprised, but very appreciative. And obviously, we will be continuing this dialogue as we both progress. Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate the opportunity, man. Yeah, thanks, man. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12.

Starting point is 00:55:52 Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 121: Ryan Michler – How To Build Your 1,000 True Fans

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