The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 145: AJ Hawk - Life In The NFL: Awareness, Consistency, Curiosity

Starting point is 00:00:00 I think as I've gotten older, that's what I've realized in every single aspect of life. Being consistent is the key, at least for myself. Just, it doesn't matter. Just do it. Just show up and do it. And you've heard me say before, it's really easy to work hard when you feel good. And everyone can kind of relate to that, I feel. There's so many days where people will wake up, the sun's shine, and it's summertime.

Starting point is 00:00:23 Like, oh, man, I'm going to go for a run today. I'm going to go get a lift. I'm going to get a good workout. And you just feel good. And it's awesome. And then there's a lot of days where it's really tough for people to get out of bed and it's dark and it's cold, whatever. Those are the days that I feel like I thrive on. I think as I've gotten older, like I don't enjoy that that much.

Starting point is 00:00:38 But I think there's no other option. Like, why not? If this is what I'm going to do, who cares? Why even talk about it? I would just, yeah, this is it. Like people say, why would you get up and work out at 5 a.m. when you were younger? Like, why would I do that when I didn't have to? I'm like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:00:54 I had class at eight and I don't want to lift after class. So I'm going to lift before. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. This episode is brought to you by Deior Design. If you've gone to Learning Leader.com recently, you've noticed a massive upgrade.

Starting point is 00:01:31 This is in thanks to the great leaders at Deior. Design. So if you're looking for a new website, website update, SEO, social media, email campaigns, or perhaps you need to create a logo for yourself or your business, so you're looking to redesign your logo, I cannot emphasize enough how great the people are at DeOor Design to work with. I personally do not endorse or allow sponsorships of this podcast for people who I do not either buy their products or utilize them for their services. And that is why I'm so excited to partner with DeOre Design to sponsor the Learning Leader Show. So go to learningleader.com slash website.

Starting point is 00:02:11 That's learningleader.com slash website. We'll get you connected directly with the people at DeO. Design and get a good deal for you. I promise you guys will enjoy it. Learningleader.com slash website. Hey, and welcome to this very special edition of the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawke, and thank you so much for being here. My featured leader is none other than my younger brother, AJ Hawk. He's a two-time All-American at Ohio State, the fifth overall pick by the Green Bay Packers.

Starting point is 00:02:42 He was elected captain by his teammates of their Super Bowl winning team, and he is the most tackles in the storied history of the Green Bay Packers. We're doing something here called a Swapcast, where we are releasing this on The Learning Leader Show, my platform, as well as his podcast called The Hawkcast. If you'd like to watch the video of this conversation, go to the hawkcast. Dot Show, and you can watch it there. A few of the topics we got into. Why he feels like he wouldn't be a good coach.

Starting point is 00:03:07 and also why I disagree with that thought, then where we both developed our inquisitive natures, and then the greatest teammate he's ever had, the three words he would use to describe himself as well as mine, and discuss doing versus talking and why we prefer doers, and then the question we would ask to deeply understand how someone else thinks, really interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, you're gonna love this one with A.J. Hawk.

Starting point is 00:03:31 All right, excited to do this one, a little bit different than normal, As you can see, the people watching as part of the Hawkcast, I am here with my younger brother, AJ, and this is Ryan here, a host of The Learning Leader Show. And we're going to do this as a joint episode, meaning we're going to release it on both of our platforms, the Hawkcast as well as a Learning Leader show. I will probably take the lead for the majority of this conversation, and then we'll have a good back and forth. So, A.H., thanks for being here. It's great to be here. great to speak to your great educated audience as well. I know. It's going to be fun. So I want to kick

Starting point is 00:04:18 this off similar to how I normally would because I think it's the reason I asked this question is really important to me to hear from world-class performers from all over the world, the common themes that they've been able to pull apart from people who they've spent a lot of time around. And you have, you played 10 years in the NFL, four years at Ohio State years before that. You won a Super Bowl. You've been elected captain multiple times. You're the Green Bay Packers, all-time leading tackler. So suffice to say, you've spent a lot of time around people who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time.

Starting point is 00:04:55 I'm curious, if you were going to pull out the pieces from those people as well as obviously from yourself, what are some of the common themes or virtues of those people who sustain excellence over an extended period of time? man it's it's tough to nail it down to one for sure that's always uh that's always tough for me my thoughts are everywhere i think but when it comes to that man being around like super high performers and guys that have seemed to always do the right thing and always be winning i guess i mean one of the first guys that comes to mind just as an example would be jim trestle i mean that guy's the man you had him on here on the learning leader show and he was he's so polished and so professional but he's so um he's so like focused and narrow minded as in like whatever he but whatever

Starting point is 00:05:41 he's doing he is all in he's that guy they say how like bill clinton if you spoke to him he's like staring right through you and he's so present and that's kind of how coach trestle is so i think guys that are great at what they do man they're there they're not all bouncing around checking their phone looking over someone's shoulder they're not sitting there waiting to get their next word in they're listening they're curious and I don't know, though. At the same time, I think you know, obviously, you know me better than anybody. There's something about everything, keeping everything simple.

Starting point is 00:06:12 And you can't sit here. And sometimes there's not, you can't describe it. Sometimes you can't, there's no like tangible evidence of why someone is the best thing, the best of what they do. It's just they work hard. They're consistent. They treat people around them. All right, man.

Starting point is 00:06:27 I'm like, all right, cool. I think you're going to have a pretty good life. And you're probably going to be, you know, sustained excellence, as you like to say. Interesting. You said that we're consistent. So this whole talk will probably jump around. I plan to go here later. But I want to ask you this question because I wrote it down and answered it for describing you. As you mentioned, I think I've known you since birth.

Starting point is 00:06:52 We've been around for 30 plus years, whatever it is. This is going to be a podcast that we'll be listened to by our kids for the next however many years. I love for you to describe yourself. This is like an interview question I would ask somebody when I was hiring them to work as a sales professional. If you had to describe yourself and you could only use three words, what would you say? I have three, by the way, that I'm going to share for you when you get done. Well, the first thing that comes to mind is Dwight Shrewt. So what you say?

Starting point is 00:07:25 Razor, Alpha, Jackhammer, whatever it is from the office. That's for some reason that just popped in my head. three words to describe myself, man, I would say consistent. See, I should have thought these through before I guess. Just to let everybody know, we plan this to not share any of our notes or questions or thoughts before the podcast. So we thought it would be more real to do it this way. Yeah, okay. So I'm going to go consistency.

Starting point is 00:08:00 Oh, man. I might have to hear yours, man. This is tough to talking. I think anyone has struggles with speaking of ourselves. I know. And I wanted to be, I wanted this. So I wrote them down for you.

Starting point is 00:08:09 And I actually, this was really hard because I made a list of many terms than I had to get rid of them. So here are the three that I put. Consistent, number one, same as yours. Self aware, number two.

Starting point is 00:08:22 And thoughtful was number three. What do you think? Is that for me? That's for you. That's for you. I like the self-awareness. Self-aware and thoughtful. I'll share why.

Starting point is 00:08:31 And then you tell me, maybe it'll make it easier for you. for you to talk about yourself now. Consistent because for anyone who's followed you or your career forever, and it's not just your football career, but I think that's how most people know you, so they'll follow that. You've always been the guy who always was there for your teammates every single day. And everybody says, I got to play with you for a few years in high school, and then other people in college at Ohio State, and then for nine years in Green Bay and one year in Cincinnati and who knows what moving forward. Everyone has said you always showed up every day

Starting point is 00:09:09 early, you were prepared, you were ready, and then when the actual game happened, you were going to do your job a thousand percent. You may not get 15 sacks in a season in six interceptions and flip your hair and do crazy stuff, but you're going to be consistently be there for your teammates. And so I put consistent as the number one for you. Do you want to react to that or you want to go on to the next one? No, I can react to it. I think as I've gotten older, that's what I've realized in every single aspect of life. Being consistent is the key, at least for myself. Just, it doesn't matter.

Starting point is 00:09:41 Just do it. Just show up and do it. And you've heard me say before, it's real easy to work hard when you feel good. And everyone can kind of relate to that, I feel. There's so many days where people will wake up, the sunshine, and it's summertime. Like, oh, man, I'm going to go for a run today. I'm going to go get a lift. I'm going to get a good workout.

Starting point is 00:09:58 And you just feel good. And it's awesome. And then there's a lot of days where it's really tough for people to get out of bed and it's dark and it's cold, whatever. Those are the days that I feel like I thrive on. I think as I've gotten older, like I don't enjoy that that much. But I think there's no other option. Like, why not? If this is what I'm going to do, who cares?

Starting point is 00:10:17 Why even talk about it? I would just, yeah, this is it. Like people say, why would you get up and work out at 5 a.m. when you were younger? Like, why would I do that when I didn't have to? I'm like, I don't know. I had class at eight and I don't want to lift after class. So I'm going to lift before. So, yeah, I think that approach probably is, I got to say, one of the keys to your long-term success.

Starting point is 00:10:41 It has to be. I think others would say that. And you say it as if it's really easy, maybe. The hard work is hard, but easy meaning like, yeah, just what I do. When in reality, it's just not. The second thing I came up with is self-aware. And I think this goes along with being, when I, When I look around at people and try to measure intelligence, part of intelligence to me is how I would define it.

Starting point is 00:11:07 And this might not be right. This is my feelings is being aware of your surroundings, having an awareness of what's going on, whether you're driving a car, whether you're in class, whether you're watching film, whether you're being a dad, being a husband. It's having an awareness of those people and the spaces and the things that's happening around you. And I think that's one of your strengths is being aware, not. only of yourself, but of your surroundings. And I think some of the greatest leaders that I've come across have this really intense awareness of themselves as well as their surroundings. You, that's spot on. Awareness is the biggest thing. I tell my kids every single day. What happened there? Oh, that was lack of, some, there's some lack of awareness on that person's

Starting point is 00:11:55 part. They just, we were in the car the other day and someone rear-ended somebody in front of us. and my daughter chimes in from the backseat oh dad he didn't have any awareness i'm like yes that is that is correct he was probably looking at his phone or something it's very dangerous we need to have awareness it could keep save our lives someday so that's like a joke i started with him but they run with it because it's just like how annoying like to you i'm sure in being in the business world it's crazy how many times that happens where people just have no awareness where just the most basic things like just just open your eyes, look around a little bit, man, and get a feel for the situation and then make your decision. Don't just blindly stumble through things. Do you think that's something that can

Starting point is 00:12:37 be learned? Yeah, I do. What are some specific ways that you would think that you've developed your awareness over the course of 30 plus years? Because there are probably periods of time in both of our lives that maybe we weren't as good at this. And we're still obviously on this path of trying to get there when we know we'll never be there. Yeah, well, that's the first key is knowing that you're never there. Right. I know that we don't have the answers and that it's something that's total, I can see it right off the bat of total lack of awareness or people that are really smart people that are

Starting point is 00:13:12 really dumb. So like what I mean would be someone that's really book smart, does really well in school, can sit there and recite the bill of rights to you and tell you all about it and act like they're all, they know everything about everything. but then they lack the awareness to delegate things that they should delegate. Like they think they can be their own financial advisor. They think they can pour the foundation in their house. They think they can do every single thing and they're never wrong.

Starting point is 00:13:37 And they should never reach out for help because that's like a sign of weakness. And that right there is just it baffles me how many times I see that. I fully admit the things that I don't know anything about. I know I will be up front with people. I'm completely ignorant on this subject. Can you like please tell me what you're what you're speaking of? So I think having awareness to actually put yourself out there a little bit and know that, hey man, I don't,

Starting point is 00:14:00 I don't have all the answers. I'm searching just like everybody else. Yeah. The third one I wrote down was thoughtful. Do you think that's accurate? I don't even know. You'd have to like describe what you mean by thoughtful. Thoughtful is a combination of caring about other people and having a curious mind.

Starting point is 00:14:22 meaning you're going to constantly think about how whatever you're doing is going to affect others, specifically the people closest to you most importantly, like, you know, Laura and the kids and us, that I think is being thoughtful, as that knowing that everything that you do is going to have an impact on them, as well as the fact that you have a lot of fans, like especially around the state of Ohio and abroad of Wisconsin, that you realize that you and Aaron talked about this when he was on your podcast, Aaron Rogers, and I actually, I really like that he admitted this. He fully understands, and he is obviously on a level that is just like Oprah Winfrey-type level. You know, like, we just, we can't even understand what it's like,

Starting point is 00:15:10 even though you've spent a lot of time around him. But understanding that the things you say, the things that you do will have an impact on other people more so than others in the world. For sure, Aaron, I think that was, he showed a lot of awareness when he, we spoke about, um, he made some comments after a game when someone, I guess he yelled out during the national anthem, something about Muslims. And Aaron had a real like thoughtful, or he was very articulate and he just explained how hate and bigotry won't help any of us and all this stuff.

Starting point is 00:15:46 And he was like, he was disappointed by the guy and the guy was trying to act like he was standing up for America and all this stuff, whatever. So I thought that was awesome when Aaron said that. But yeah, I guess I definitely would agree with you on the thoughtful thing. I think sometimes I might be I care too much about how would I say or do or react will affect other people, meaning I wish I could be tougher on things like people or situations that I need to be, like stand up and take a stand. I use you as an example or whatever.

Starting point is 00:16:18 how every once in a while I will have some people that maybe doing some work around the house or we're getting something done and we have to hire someone to do some kind of work that I know I can't do and I can will catch them like sleeping or something going on and I'm like man I wish I'll tell Laura I'm like man I wish I was like Ryan and I could go out and like Brian would give this dude like a four point bulletin about what he needs to do and then he's going to lower the guy get the guy to lower his rate and then shake his hand and go on and have to have to. have a nice day. And I use the example of how, yeah, I know you've said you'll, you have called, uh, you'll call like if you say you had direct TV, you'll call them and say you're canceling

Starting point is 00:16:57 your service. You're going to time Warner just to get them to lower your bill. Yeah. And I don't know if you want, you probably would don't want that out there for some reason. Well, it's, it's a little bit embarrassing, but I don't care. I mean that I've done it. That's not embarrassing. It's sales. It's in a way, some would say it's a waste of time. But think of that. If you save four bucks a month, think how much money you're, going to save over 20 years. My hourly rate, I would hope, is more than that. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:17:23 I know. How much is your time worse? That's why that might not be the best example. I think what you're talking about is probably like the willingness to... Almost confront people, maybe. Confront people to negotiate everything, because I believe everything in the world is negotiable. Everything. If somebody says you can't negotiate that, I'm always going to say, well, yeah, you can.

Starting point is 00:17:45 Like, of course I can. There's not... Even if, like, for example, if I got a... cavity filled and the dentist said it cost this much. I would say, well, why? Like, the bill should be lower than that or I think it should be lower than that. Just because, and I'll try to do a little research to have an informed reason as to why that I think that cavity should cost us or whatever may be. But I think, I think going into everything with a mindset that you should ask the question why and that in this case, things are negotiable.

Starting point is 00:18:14 I don't know. I mean, I think that could rub people the wrong way at times. but that's my approach, and I'm okay with it, I think, because I don't know. I just, I've kind of developed into that type of a person. I'm with you. That's what I wish I had a little more of that. I definitely am super curious and ask people why and ask them to explain what their beliefs are in certain things.

Starting point is 00:18:34 But I guess the negotiating thing is what I don't have. And I'm like, I'll think about it for a second. I'm like, man, I know it's probably, I could probably cut like 10 bucks off this or should be cheaper. And I'm like, uh, I just, and then most of the time I won't, I won't. won't go forward with, I think, all right, whatever, I just want to get out of here. Well, you know, part of this, it's interesting question. I think that came up.

Starting point is 00:18:54 I'm glad it did. Part of this is because when I got done playing football, I immediately go into the world of professional selling in the business world of having to negotiate constantly all the time. Your world when you got done with college. So I got done with college. I played a couple years in arena football, but was basically a working person like most people when they get done with college. you went and you continued basically doing what you did in college without going to class.

Starting point is 00:19:22 You just played football, right? And so I got, I've developed 10 years of experience of negotiating hard with people of having to, and also having to win and at work. There's a negotiating that goes on there. You haven't done any of that. So you're like in the process of maybe getting started doing some of that right now. You know, like, I don't know, it's going to be a little bit different for you than it was for me. So I've had 10 plus years of experience that you've had basically none.

Starting point is 00:19:50 I mean, you had an agent who's negotiated your contract. You have an agent who negotiates any marketing deal so that you don't, that's not something that you should be doing. You should be focused solely on your craft, which is playing football. Yeah, I've thought of that for sure. I know that that's something that you, and I think I even recognized and noticed that as you got into sales and negotiating stuff at work, you started to kind of take that everywhere. Yeah. And so yeah, then I did think about, well, he has a lot more experience in this.

Starting point is 00:20:19 Like you said, if you are going to do that, you're going to do some research and have like and be informed a little bit about what you're doing. I would just jump into it like an idiot. Like, no, it's 100, it should be 40. And the person's like, I already gave you $300 off. Like, oh, cool. See you. Like so you actually would like, would take the time to get prepared for it. I would need to be, I think I would have to feel really prepared and qualified to actually like go back at somebody. Yeah. I think you should though. I think that's the right way to go about any type of conversation with a person is. One question I like to ask a lot of people, and I don't know, maybe we can do it right now,

Starting point is 00:20:53 is not so on a podcast, but other times when I meet somebody, because I think it gives me a feeling of how they think. It's tell me the last time you were wrong about something. And if people, like, can't think of something for a long time, like, I think that's a problem because I'm wrong constantly, because I'm always trying to experiment or try new things. And so I think part of thinking about the potential of being wrong makes me want to be more prepared for whatever the next event is. Like if I'm going to negotiate something, I don't want to be wrong, so I'm going to prepare like crazy so that I'm right.

Starting point is 00:21:31 Or at least gives me the best chance of being right. And any negotiation actually is not a win and a loss. It literally is a win and a win. That's your hope. And it sounds funny, but that's legit. I think when you go into it, say, how can we make this literally a win-win? Because you're going to probably go back and negotiate or talk to or have a relationship with who. Like Mike McCartney, your agent, for example, he doesn't want to go and just screw a team and get this insane contract for you because he knows he's going to be negotiating with those people again in the future.

Starting point is 00:22:08 So he needs to actually build a relationship to where both people feel like they've got a W out of it. Oh, I'm with you. But how do you say you have, how do you think you, that like transferred into your personal life from your business world when we know Pistol or dad, he who's been at Lexus Nex for 30 some years and one of the most respected guys ever in the history of that business, it seems like. Definitely. He, I don't think that's filled into his personal life. Maybe I'm more like pistol to where we just will, I don't know, do you, do you see that where he's not going to, I think he's even trying to back you down and pull you off of people? Absolutely. I think that maybe just the fact that like I'm 50% him, not 100% him, you know?

Starting point is 00:22:51 And I think you might be 60 or 70%, which he's loving right now. But like I think other than the fact that that we don't know where our athletic ability came from. Nobody does. But I think maybe that's what I would say. We're very lucky to have them and do everything for us. He's the first person I go to if I have any type of professional question. I know is the same for you. But I do think we have some differences, and I think that's okay.

Starting point is 00:23:20 I think that's good. I think more like if you look at our mom, she can be a ballbuster and can get after people. And I think I got some of that from her. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's good. I didn't think of it that deeply. Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense now that you see. that because I didn't even I don't mean it as a slight to pistol at all I like

Starting point is 00:23:38 pistols the nicest guy in the world and so I think he has I have that little part where I'm not saying I'm the nicest guy in the world but I have that part like ah man if I come back at this dude or whatever maybe we're a little too word of how this person is gonna view us absolutely no I think that's I think that's that's completely true you know you mentioned earlier about being curious and I think that's one thing we both have in common is just approaching every conversation with a curious mind, as Lynn Wood would tell me, and I think that's what we do. However, I don't think, I'll speak for me and you can share your part. I haven't always been this

Starting point is 00:24:15 way. This has been developed over time. I think back to, let's go back to high school. We played together. We got to do, we got to work out together for two years, play together for two years. I followed those guys blindly without questioning anything. Whatever those coaches told me, I just did it and did it as hard as I possibly could. I would never even consider asking, why are we doing this? So I don't know if it's just from age or maturing or just what, I'm not sure. That's actually what I wanted to ask you. When you think about the curiosity that we've both developed, I wonder how and where

Starting point is 00:24:53 maybe that, that, how that got developed. I, I, I'm with you. I, the exact same way where I would have done anything for our, high school coaches, I still would. Those guys shaped everything about us in our foundation, you know, three of us, all three boys playing at Centerville. Those guys like set everything in our whole life, like on the right path. But I think that it's good sometimes as, especially when you're younger, to blindly follow people in certain situations. It's very dangerous if you follow a big old douchebag that's going to get you hurt and going to put you in situations that

Starting point is 00:25:29 aren't good for you. But I feel like we trusted those coaches. We might have had something in our brains subconsciously that realized, hey, these guys know what they're doing, we need to listen to them. And so I never once asked why. I don't even remember ever in my brain really complaining about all the crazy things that I did physically and mentally where they never did anything like hurtful, but just like staying for hours and hours and running and doing all these little weird drills. I'd like, oh, okay. And I know some of the times I was getting a ride home from you and you'd have to wait around while I was doing, it would seem like punishment for some people, but it was just coaches trying to get my fundamentals right and get me the best player I could be,

Starting point is 00:26:12 and you would sit there and sometimes watch. And I never once was like, oh, man, gosh, I was stupid coach. I never even thought that. It never once crossed my mind. So I think you should sometimes when you're younger and you're developing, you sometimes need to blindly follow some people if they are doing the right thing. But then as you get older, you should look around and you start to gain some awareness and realize that everybody doesn't really have your best interest in mind.

Starting point is 00:26:36 And not everybody, very few people deserve that respect to actually blindly follow. And when you're older, I don't think you should blindly follow anybody. It's the whole Bodhisattah deal where he finds him, he's searching through the woods. He's searching, he finds like his so-called God, Sidhartha. And he says, oh, I will follow you to the ends of the earth or whatever. He's like, no, do not do that. You do not blindly follow me. question it. He says, go find your own path. Do your own thing. And then if you come back to me,

Starting point is 00:27:04 great. But I butcher, that's a weird way to butcher a book I read when I was like 21. But I remember that part of it when he's searching for this guy, Sid Hartha, I believe it is. And he finds him, the guy, and he's like, oh, my goodness, I will do anything for you. He's like bowing to him. And the guy, what are you talking about? No way. It's almost like someone finding the Dalai Lama and wanted to be his little tag team guy and just hold on to his coat pockets. And the guy's like, No. I was like, go do your own thing, bro.

Starting point is 00:27:31 You don't need to, don't follow me like this. You need to ask some questions. I, we talked about consistency. And I, so let's relate it to my podcast. So as far as the learning leader show is concerned,

Starting point is 00:27:49 I've had a number of people actually, even former guests and others say, dude, the quality is great. You don't need to worry about, like, releasing at the exact same time on the exact same day. And I have like this fear that that would show that I'm not a consistent performer.

Starting point is 00:28:07 And that's, I don't know if that's an insecurity or what it is. But I like the thought of being consistent and it almost holds myself accountable. And considering that was the very first attribute, we both said to describe you, how do you think that is developed in somebody? Because you said earlier, and it was very simplistic, like, it's just easy, and it's not to do that. I know, like, trying to publish this thing on a regular basis, how could people listening or watching, if they're like, you know what, like, this is somewhere where I'm just perpetually late, I'm not there all the time for my people, but I know I need to be as a leader. What are some things they could do? Man, there's so many things.

Starting point is 00:28:56 See, when you say that, like, I'm not consistent with my podcast like you are. I wish I was as consistent, but for whatever reason, I like to try to get maybe one, get one out a week at least, worst case scenario too, hopefully, but I don't have that consistent schedule like you do, but I don't feel the same crazy pressure. I definitely feel it if I don't have a bunch of, if I don't have some down the line already lined up to post. So I feel that, but I don't have the super, I don't know, I think it's because you started yours off

Starting point is 00:29:26 on such a perfect path and such this plan. I can understand that for sure. But to like stay to figure out ways to be consistent. Like I struggle, I struggle telling or giving advice and this is why I'm not a good, this is why I won't be a coach for sure. Because I sometimes I don't know how to tell people what to do or how to make a tackle or what you need.

Starting point is 00:29:46 I'm like, yeah, you can take your take the right steps, do all this stuff. But guess what? The dude can still juke you at the last second and you're going to miss the tackle. Like there's no, there's no black and white. concrete way to get everything right. But being consistent, just like actionable steps are easy.

Starting point is 00:30:00 It's something. Start like a routine. Start something to where you, like you said, you're going to hold yourself accountable. And it's almost like the people, if you've heard some like people that get sober or even like people that are become born again Christians, they have like accountability partners, I guess. And they have that kind of thing. If you need one of those guys, do it. Get your Fitbit. And you can link like your Fitbit publicly. I've seen this before. where you can put this on to where it's going to go out to like all your friends and family. And so they can see if you don't get your 20,000 steps or whatever. So whatever works for you.

Starting point is 00:30:33 But I think there's no black and white concrete answer for like one thing will not work for everybody. But everybody can find their own kind of routine or the couple things that maybe get them going like in the right direction, build some momentum. What defines a great coach? Because you're saying that you would make a, well, I don't know if you make a bad. A terrible coach. So what defines a great coach? Because I'll get there.

Starting point is 00:30:59 I'll let you answer that first. Someone that has patience, first off, to explain things and let people know and not get frustrated every second. Do you have that? Not when it comes to football. I don't have patience in explaining things because sometimes I'll have guys come in me and keep asking me a question. What do you want to do here? And I'll talk scheme all day. I can tell you why something may happen or where your weak spots may be in certain coverages and

Starting point is 00:31:24 blitzes and whatever, but I'm not going to sit there and be able to like explain fundamentals to you and stuff like that. I just feel like you just have to go do it. Just go out there and do it. If like my coach and off singer in high school, at times when you'd have to wait around for me, he'd be like, do 200 rips to the left side and 200 rips to the right where I have to like do this whole broken down thing. It's called a rip move to like get by blockers basically. I'd have like, he turned into like a seven point process like step, punch, turn, step through, punch, rip all the way and that was one and you do this thing forever and ever and i don't he didn't have

Starting point is 00:31:59 to sit there and explain it to me a million times he showed me and he's like all right do 400 of them like okay cool and so you just do it so i think they have that to where coaches they they don't complicate stuff but coaches just it's something that you you've heard me say as well like just be authentic and don't don't put on a front don't front that you're this tough guy if you're not we can see right through it and we feel your insecurities coming to the surface. So don't sit there and yell at us and act like you're tough and set in the tone. And if you are a tough guy, cool, we're going to respect that, man. And we'll go with it. So whatever they are, I think if they're authentic, man, players, players understand right away and they will follow that guy. Other than coach

Starting point is 00:32:37 Trussell, who's the best you played for? Oh, man. I'm so... It has to be a head coach. Yeah, I'm so lucky to have a lot of great coaches. But Coach Bob Gregg, Coach Ron Ulry, our high school coaches, this unbelievable. And in Larry singer my linebacker coach in high school who I still got to talk to a couple weeks ago at the event with Eddie George that you moderated to Persson Younger was awesome he uh those guys are some of the best ever man but even like honestly I played nine years for Winston moss in green bay who's still the linebacker slash um assistant head coach associate head coach whatever the title may be now he's really good man and I think over the years our relationship

Starting point is 00:33:16 developed and grew a lot from early on we're both just quiet guys that didn't really talk to each other. Neither of us would speak a lot. And so we didn't have a ton of communication. And as we grew, it was cool. We understood each other and knew how to talk about the game and had a lot of fun on the sidelines too during games.

Starting point is 00:33:34 Why was he better than somebody who was not good? I won't, you're not going to name names who aren't good, but, man, um, see I, this is with me,

Starting point is 00:33:43 I haven't had to directly play for anybody that's not good. That's what's crazy. So there's been coaches on the staff, every staff that I played, play every team I played on that I'm like oh that guy sucks like he's not a good coach his players hate him and he's not good but I haven't directly had to play for those guys but the guys I've noticed that aren't very good are real the real insecure in their approach I think whether it may be they're scared to confront their players and they're scared to hold them

Starting point is 00:34:09 accountable or they go the other way and all they do is just bear down on them and go crazy and they want to yell really loud so all the other coaches hear them and they're almost like they'll sit there and freak out and throw down all the stuff on the ground after each play in practice and almost look over their shoulder and like oh you see it head coach needs me getting mad to see me coaching up my guys right and so that's something that with all leaders you can see right off the bat man and players see through that and I think players are becoming even becoming more aware at an earlier age now so they really can know they will know right off the bat like who is good here best teammate you've ever played with in the NFL and why best team may admit there's so many

Starting point is 00:34:52 different categories, I guess, that I could put them in. But one of the, man. You can name more than one. I'm trying to, yeah, I have a lot of guys on top of my head. I mean, one of the best, it's easy to say, but obviously Aaron Rogers, just one of the best quarterbacks ever to live, but just knows how to run a team, knows the ins and outs. And when he's in that facility, when he's there, he's a normal guy.

Starting point is 00:35:18 And he's going to, he has a perfect balance of getting on guys and letting him know that, hey, that you need to, your perfection almost is expected. I know you're not perfect, but I want you to make sure you're trying everything to be perfect. But then he doesn't do it over the top and doesn't go crazy and tear the guys soul out and take all their confidence because I've seen that happen as well. Or like alert the media when he does a summer throwing event. Like it seems like it happens all the time where they have the guy call TMZ or whoever to say, hey, I'm doing a passing camp with T-shirts in L.A. On this date, you might want to get a picture.

Starting point is 00:35:52 And I feel like Aaron has this, I think the word I like to use, and I've, you know, obviously you spent more time around than I have, but is this moxie about him where he can be quiet, he can be introverted, I think at times, is extremely confident in his ability to make it happen. I'm guessing a lot of comes from preparation. And this incredible recall for both good and bad. events that have happened in his life, particularly on the field. I've found that from him and just the way he talks about it. Like even playing golf with him last year, to hear him describe, I think he shot a 70, which is insane. And he could have described any one of those 70 shots

Starting point is 00:36:36 in the hole and what was going on and the club he used and all that. I think it just showed a level of kind of brain power that goes hand in hand with him having, you know, all of the the physical capabilities of being one of the greatest, if not the greatest quarterback of all time. Oh, I 100% agree. Another guy had popped in my head, two guys actually. Safety who's still there in Green Bay, Morgan Burnett, just an awesome guy,

Starting point is 00:37:01 an awesome teammate, really wants to be held accountable and would always have the team in mind and always has the team's best interest and never showed any selfishness. and just an all-around great teammate. The guy still texts with to this day. And then a big D-Lyman named Howard Green, who was on the Super Bowl team.

Starting point is 00:37:23 He was a vet. He came in, signed him, played with us that Super Bowl year. And, man, one of the biggest plays of that game, he pressured a quarterback, like, ran into Ben's arm. I think he pushed, like, the center of the guard into Ben Rothensberger's arm. So the ball kind of fluttered in the air.

Starting point is 00:37:39 And Nick Collins picked it off and returned it for a touchdown, which is gigantic. If you can get a turnover in the Super Bowl, it's big if you can get a pick six i mean come on your chances of when he just went way up so but howard man one of those like perfect awesome big old strong de lineman that would come and ask you all the time how are you good you guys aren't getting touched back here or you and then like if he did have a play where he felt like he let a guy up he would be all disappointed himself and but he just just a good team guy man i've i've had a lot of those guys over the years but those two guys stuck

Starting point is 00:38:09 out i think it's jordy too i don't know if that was one that was up there i'm sure jordy's not even like a human. He's so not Jordy Nelson. Yeah, Jordan Nelson. He's he's so different than the stereotypical NFL superstar, let alone NFL superstar wide receiver. Like Jordy's not even,

Starting point is 00:38:27 you can't even put him in the same category because he's just such a good normal dude from Kansas that has a ton of land back there and he loves to go work the land. It's like the movies when they have these kids that are that are that good and they're like, oh, he just wants to go drive his tractor or whatever. I'm like, well, Jordy, I've been back there with him.

Starting point is 00:38:43 out there, we're herding cattle and doing all this, like, legit farmer. And he, his brother runs the farm for him back there. But when he's playing football, he is one of the most talented and smart guys I've ever seen. They don't make guys like that to where he's so, he's almost like, he's not naive to it. He understands the game and he's very aware of the world he lives in. But he has no desire to take part in like all the weird, stupid, crazy ego stuff going on in the NFL. What's the what's a story of maybe one of the most interesting or slash funny things that have happened on an NFL field? Oh, so many of them.

Starting point is 00:39:30 But I would say one of them I kind of referenced earlier here was when this dude, I forget the guy's name, Brady Pupinga, good friend, great teammate and Reeve. You know Brady well. Yeah. He's awesome. Brady is nuts in a good way. guy was just some big old lineman was frothing at the mouth and yelling and going crazy at him and barking at one of our other players actually i don't think it was even brady he was they were they were getting each other's faces going back and forth and brady went and like kind of separated the two guys

Starting point is 00:40:01 are our green bay guy and then someone whoever there's lineman was that was yelling he's like whoa whoa whoa bro and people don't know brady can his voice is awesome brady said to the he looked at our or his our teammate and he said hey whoa bro we know he we know he we know he we know he he's not the he said that's just your insecurities bubbling into the surface bro and he said this to this big old 350 pound lineman you're not i know you're not i know you're not tough that just your insecurities bubbling to the surface and we it like shut everybody down but like where the place went silent we're like oh my god brady like and then now i'm like brady you're 100% right you were really that was so true what you said there and so i used that all the time when i see guys

Starting point is 00:40:40 trying to like play this tough guy role and it was it was just weird you can see right through it It was cool. I've used that since, remember, I'm glad you brought it up. It wasn't what I was thinking you were going to say, but when you hear these people who like to chirp. And this is actually, like Brady has taught me this from that moment. Whenever you might be on the verge of doing something big or which could be great, I would rather be a doer and not a talker. And I think there are people we both know in our lives who, whatever, I don't want to name an event or anything to give it this, give it away because I don't like talking negatively about people.

Starting point is 00:41:22 But I think just in general, just go and do that thing, whether it's anything big in your life, prepare and then go get it done. We found a lot of people who will sit there and talk about what they're about to do all the time. And I think that's the Brady Pupengo voicing their insecurities, wanting to get some adulation and some people to pat them on the back for something they haven't even done yet. And so for me, it's like I would rather go to the other extreme and almost tell, like even when this podcast was getting started, here are the people that I told. I told you, I told my wife, and I told one other guy, Greg Meredith, who encouraged me to do this. Three total people knew I was going to do this before I launched. That's it. There's a lot of people in my life who I love who are close to me and nobody else knew because I thought this could be something big. I'm planning for it to be big. I recorded 22 episodes prior to launching. That took me four months and didn't tell anybody. I didn't want that to be. It wasn't about what I was about to do. It was about what I'll let you see when it happens. And I think that's the people who voiced their insecurities about what they're about to do. I'd rather you be a doer, not a talker.

Starting point is 00:42:35 I mean, is there anybody that disagrees with that? I hope not. Here's the thing, though. People do it all the time, though. Oh, they're very guilty of doing it, yes. Right. So why do people do it? But then you're right.

Starting point is 00:42:51 I don't think anybody would disagree with what I'm saying, but then so many people are guilty of doing it. I mean, you and I both probably are at one point in our lives, too. So it's just a matter of, though, being aware of that. And then I just, I think, I don't know. I don't know. I'm curious to see what you think about that. It's lack of awareness, first off, to where they, if you want to just talk about what you're going to do or how you're going to do it, I'm like, all right, man, I don't, I don't care.

Starting point is 00:43:14 I'm like, I have no, I have no opinion on this subject. I've had that before where you can, people get really upset at you if you don't have an opinion on something. They feel like you have to. Yeah. Where someone's going crazy, what about a game going on or some stupid conversation, some argument that two people are having. And they want you to chime in. you're just sitting there quiet and like, what do you, what do you think, AJ? I'm like, I literally like want to blow my head off right now.

Starting point is 00:43:38 I could care less. I could care less about your conversation. It hurts their heart, man. Like people want you to, I think people just want to talk about, I guess what they're going to do. But then I'm sure some people will give you the whole like new age, like the secret type stuff where if you want it, you got to put it out there in the universe and it'll come back to you like that as well.

Starting point is 00:43:59 So I'm just, I'm just voicing my intent of what I plan on doing. doing and good things will come back. You know what? I might have to already, in a way, I do think there are some, I don't want to be a flip-flopper here, but I think part of being a learning leader is being willing to change your mind. I'm not changing my mind, but some of that, I think there is some truth to some of it. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:44:21 There is, but it's, it all depends on the situation. Yeah. Yes. You're 100% right. There is something to, I think it's cool. And you don't have to sit there and voice it to the whole world and say, I'm going to, there's different ways. There's like ego and insecure ways

Starting point is 00:44:35 or there's like cool ways to where people can say things like if it's a musician saying, I'm gonna, oh, I'm gonna shock the world and sell 20 million albums this year. Like no one cares, but cool.

Starting point is 00:44:45 Like that's not the same as someone that says, I'm gonna, as a musician that wants to say, I'm gonna try to make the, I'm gonna make the greatest album I've ever made this year or something. I don't know. It's different.

Starting point is 00:44:56 But I think there's different ways to go about it. It's just how you, how you put it out there, how you go about it, how you, the language you use is very, is very telling for sure. Let's talk about being a dad. We both are dads now. We, we're lucky to have great parents that still continually help us on a daily basis. What is your overall philosophy towards being a leader as a dad?

Starting point is 00:45:24 I want to show them, not tell them, first off. it's insane that kids do what they see not what they say what is it they do what you do not what you tell them to do I don't know you know that so they're going to see how I interact with their mom they're going to see how I interact with everyone else around me

Starting point is 00:45:45 if we're thanking people and just out of stuff that you don't even you don't know you're doing but hold the door for people when you're walking in places just saying thank you or whatever all those tiny little things they add up over time And I see that already with a five and a three-year-old and now seven months almost. I see that how like my little son is super like polite and he'll thank you for thanking him.

Starting point is 00:46:06 Like I'm like, oh, thanks for bringing that here. But he's like, oh, thank you for thank you for thanking me, dad. I'm like, wow, cool. So they just they see. So I think the first off, just like being any kind of leader, don't tell them, man. Just do it. Set the example and live how you feel like you would be proud that they, if they grew up to treat people the way that you want them to. like you need to you need to embody that so that's the first thing man just don't sit there and i don't

Starting point is 00:46:31 don't have to sit there and tell them about the rules and tell them everything um so just treat my treat my wife the way i feel like she should be treated and how parents should interact and then treat other people right and then let them know that i'm always going to be there like i'm not going anywhere no matter what i won't be gone there's nothing you could ever do to make me not love you and no matter what happens in the world i will always be here for you and so that's the only the few things i think if I can get that foundation with them and they understand that early on, which I know they can already feel it, they can hopefully, hopefully puts them in position to be great people. If there was one principle or a guiding idea that you had to pass along, like they forgot

Starting point is 00:47:12 everything that you were, you had taught them up at this point and you, and you had to pass one thing, what would it be that you would hope for them to be as they get older? I would hope they're just authentic, that they're real. they're whatever whatever they are do it that's you why is that so hard to be because it is i think i think it is awesome it's really hard yeah why especially now do you think do you think you i won't answer um do you think this is something that you've battled being authentic um i don't think it's like not as you've gotten better at maybe definitely gotten better at yeah i personally have over the maybe the last like few years actually yeah uh yeah i think

Starting point is 00:47:55 think we're all, it's the same thing where you're always trying to figure out a way. But yeah, it's, I mean, I've, I've gotten better just because I think when I was younger and trying, I guess I wasn't, I was never like trying to do, it wasn't like crazy, but I was just try to like, I don't know, when you're younger and you're stupid in middle school and stuff, you like want to be, think you're tough or whatever it may be. And I was never like a guy that was going to treat people bad. I don't think. I'm sure. Actually, I did have, I'm sure it was all, every once in a while I would get on like certain things in like fifth or sixth grade where you'd want to just annihilate people when you'd play like, what is it,

Starting point is 00:48:33 speedball, handball, the different games we'd play. I'd always get locked in on a few kids and I'd want to make sure I got a couple good shots on them. So I was never like a bully for sure, though. I was always, I was always friends with most people or at least acquaintances and never feel like I'd treated people terribly, but I think I definitely wasn't authentic as, I guess, just the normal kid stuff where you think you, need to like put off a certain persona or attitude part of it is you i think you slowly stop

Starting point is 00:49:02 this is i'll speak for myself slowly stop caring as much about what others think like for example look at Kobe Bryant towards the end of his career he became like beloved because he just was as real and as honest as you could possibly get every single time somebody talked to him like you You can tell because he said things that made people mad. Like he wasn't, the beginning of his career, he was Michael Jordan 2.0, right? Just trying to say the right thing in the same tone with the same voice as MJ, his whole career. And then towards the end, he got this mentality of, nope, I don't care. I'm done with that.

Starting point is 00:49:42 I'm just going to meet me. I felt when Aaron was on your podcast, he was like that actually. Like he's getting closer to that Kobe range of like, you know what? This is like, this is who I am. Like, I think people would be shocked to hear that. Tom Brady eats pizza and drinks a lot of alcohol sometimes. But that's true, right? And they think, like, no way, I've read about his diet and all this stuff.

Starting point is 00:50:04 It's like, that's just not true. Like, and Aaron, I wasn't afraid of that at all. And Kobe is the same way towards the end of his thing. And I think maybe that just comes with maturing life. I don't know. It has to. And especially when they've, like, cultivated that image that their brands and people give them millions of dollars and you can't step out of line.

Starting point is 00:50:23 I'm sure at some point, they just get sick. of it and maybe even like Kobe's whole trial is that whole deal that happened um and he had to pay the girl off and all this stuff it had to be one of the worst situations ever for him in his life but then when he finally got through it and came through the other side he was probably like who cares man like I've literally been to the very bottom of how you could what you could point publicly what why am I scared to say my opinion on certain things so I think guys like that and it gets with age And I don't know, like no one's, I definitely respect people that are super out there and authentic and like really, really put all their stuff out for people to know. But I mean, I feel like I'm pretty much an open book and definitely am vulnerable and open to things.

Starting point is 00:51:10 But at the same time, I still, I don't think it's my place even to give my opinion on like the political race going on right now. Like I don't care. Like personally, like I don't really care about politics really. but if I say I did feel really strong about one way or the other, like if I really like Trump, I still don't think I would come out and just lobby for him and go real public with that just because I don't think there's any, maybe it's, I'm scared to put myself out there when it comes to that because no matter what you're going to get a bunch of hate coming your way. But I also think it's just because I'm not, I'm ignorant to a lot of the issues that happen in politics.

Starting point is 00:51:47 I'm like, I don't care. Like the whole story, I don't want to hear like Pearl Jam, which I love Pearl Jam. And my youngest son's name's Vetter. People are like, all right, buddy. All right, Eddie, we don't care about your political views. Just sing Jeremy, bud. Just keep going. Like, no one.

Starting point is 00:52:00 So, like, sometimes rock stars and people will want to use a platform to give their views when people just want to hear the art. So. But I will say, though, you do have a platform. Maybe not the same platform as Eddie Vetter. But you do have a platform. So if you truly believe that we're for talking politics, that one person is.

Starting point is 00:52:22 better than another person. Isn't there a responsibility to say that? Yeah, there is. I guess. There is. But I would have to really truly believe it. What, what, okay, pure riffing, what topic is that you just feel so strongly about that you would be willing to, to stand on your platform that you've built up over the years and be willing for people to get mad at you because they'll disagree with what you'd say. Like, is there, is there something that you feel that strongly about I honestly can't think of one where I would tee one up for you, that you would say, you know what, yes, I believe in this, and I know at least 50% of the people listening are probably going to be upset with me for believing this,

Starting point is 00:53:06 but I do, and I'd like to use my platform to help whatever that may be. Like, raising money for cancer is not that, because everyone agrees with that. It's something that maybe people wouldn't agree with. the only thing that I can think of that I actually feel strong about that people have asked me a little bit is that I remember texting you when I saw that documentary trophy kids and I saw the parents that are super duper just overbearing killing their kids the one golf for dad I've said on here before please give me your number I want to set up a fight I want to set up a public fight with all those parents like and I don't I don't want to fight anybody I've never that's not my thing

Starting point is 00:53:47 at all. But I want to sit down and talk to them and be like, you are absolutely wrong, how these dudes treat their little kids, these super young, like that little golfer girl, I feel so bad for her in that documentary, man. The dad is just freaking out losing his mind over this girl playing some little golf tournament. And he, like, justifies his beliefs. So that's something I really feel strong about is how you maybe support your kids when it comes to sports or whatever they're passionate about how you do that i just i will never ever think that that is the right way to go about it to sit there and try to live through them and and make them you give them nervous ticks you give them so many issues and that's just something that i just i i can't

Starting point is 00:54:31 even talk about it makes me so mad a lot of times how will you respond if one of your kids play sports and it's obvious that they have in their genetic makeup to be better than others at least more naturally gifted, which there's probably a good chance that will happen. Not a guarantee, but a good chance based on the fact of who you decided to marry. You made a great choice. She's going to listen to this episode now. I know. I know.

Starting point is 00:54:59 So, but my point is, and let's say they're out there, whether it's Lenin or Hendricks or vet or any of them, and they just don't really care or they don't give, like, they're not like you. They don't give like 100% 100% of the time or maybe they're not a hard worker because I have this fear. Trust me. How do you respond to that? You know, when it's there, you can feel it. Maybe you'll notice like, okay, they got a shot and they just don't do it.

Starting point is 00:55:28 If they're really, okay, so let's say they're saying they're really talented in a certain sport or whatever and they, but they don't have the drive to work hard at it. That's a great question. I would say it's, I almost try to take. what Robert Green told me on here that whatever they are passionate about, hopefully they are passionate about something. Yeah. I would try to really pump them up in that section. So say they didn't like basketball, but they loved, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:55:58 drawing. Drawing, yeah, I was going to say that. They love drawing. I would, I would try to jump behind them 100% when it comes to what they were passionate about. And then if for some reason, maybe they saw how good they could become at that, maybe something would flip where they would realize like, hey, I'm going to go give a basketball a shot. And then all of a sudden they get there and they would at least if they could learn hard work at something and get some reward from it, then it might turn them into what they're going to like what they really could excel at, I guess. Or maybe they become an artist.

Starting point is 00:56:31 Exactly. Yeah. And either way, if I did jump on them and push them and say all this and say, aren't you glad, they all of a sudden say they sign us, they get a scholarship and they go play basketball somewhere. and I would sit there, am I going to be the dad? It's like, aren't you glad I drove you to practice and made you go while you were crying in the car and I kicked you out and I made you go to practice every night? Aren't you glad? And they'd be like, yeah, dad, I'm really happy as they go to their dorm room and start injecting heroin into their arm. Like, that's my fear.

Starting point is 00:56:58 That's my biggest fear right there is that they get, when they do get away, they can't wait to get away. And they're like, oh, my goodness, get away from my, my communist home of where I have to do everything that they say. Like, no, I'm going to put them a position. to make good decisions. So it's a tough, man. It's a fine line.

Starting point is 00:57:15 I think it's really tough. And like I like to, I use pistol. Our dad all the time, man, he was always there. No matter what, he was there. Roll out of bed three in the morning

Starting point is 00:57:24 and he'll rebound for you. He'll buy the catcher's gear and catch for you. So that's what I try to model everything after. No matter what, like my daughter, we just took her training wheels off her bike. So she's asking me all day every day. Dad, can you come, can you come?

Starting point is 00:57:37 Help me ride. And so I sit there and hold her seat and run up and down the driveway with her trying to get her riding her her bike so hopefully that will will help her moving forward she was riding with uh the the training wheels i noticed but she came over to our house when you were at joss siton's wedding and i'm like lennon it's time this time to take off the training wheels let's do it you're you're you're going to make it happen so how did it go is it right good i got her i got her a bike at dicks i went and got her a frozen bike and took the wheel train wheels off and she loves it man

Starting point is 00:58:06 she can go like she can go like 10 20 feet at a time but she's at that moment where she's She has it. She can do it. It's just in her brain. Like she can't. You've got to overcome the initial fear. That's all it is. It's like I tried to explain to her when I first did a gainer off the diving board

Starting point is 00:58:20 where you face forward and you jump out and you flip backwards. Yeah. I still remember the backyard pool. I always did it for like three straight hours. I would jump and try to get it. I kept doing it. I would land. Ask Johnny Thomas about it.

Starting point is 00:58:32 Johnny was there. And you had this fear in your head of flipping backwards. All I pictured was Greg Luggana is banging. It's banging my head on the diving board. That's an old reference. for the young listeners. And he, I finally, I did it.

Starting point is 00:58:46 Man, I spent three hours. I was exhausted. And I did it one time. I hit it. I got my gainer. And I was like, and it opened up a whole new world. And then I just did 30 in a row.

Starting point is 00:58:54 And now I do them every time I go to the pool, I'll do it. And I can go off the side. I don't need a diving board anymore. So it's like, once you get it once, you're good to go, man. Once you conquer that initial thing.

Starting point is 00:59:05 And that's all she's at right now. That's where she is. So it's coming, man, week or two. I got a few quick questions. The answers don't have to be quick. They can be. Let's say it's week one of the NFL season 2016. And your phone rings, and it is a coach of an NFL team.

Starting point is 00:59:26 And that coach is about to tell you he wants to sign you to be their starting middle linebacker because they've had some injuries. Who do you want to be on that other end of the line? Oh, geez. you're going to make 30-some coaches mad here well first I'd have to know who all the head coaches were in the NFL which I don't well probably then it's not going to be one of them you're right oh cross them off the list then

Starting point is 00:59:53 major league man I'm just kidding I do I'm doing a lot of broadcasts I know all the coaches guys at Fox Jacob I know um Man. I would, I'll answer for you. I wanted to. Yeah, I would, I don't, I haven't thought that far down the road where, which I haven't thought of like, I don't like to even, I don't do that for some reason. I don't, my brain doesn't even need to.

Starting point is 01:00:21 There's no, like, I don't know what a great situation would be. I want it to be Bill Belichick. Oh, okay. That's an easy answer. But, yeah. I mean, you know, it's, you could pick it. I mean, I could say Marvin Lewis or I could say, hey, anybody. That, mainly just because I want to know what it's like.

Starting point is 01:00:38 So you don't want to hear what it's like to play for that guy and play with Tom Brady because you already played with Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers. To think about some of the, and even Andy Dalton, how great of a guy and a player he is, it's the amount of, you've put yourself in the position. So it's not luck. But the good fortune of playing for Coach Tressel, winning a national championship, making the absolute most of the opportunities that have come before you. And then you go to the NFL and you get Brett Farr, Van Aaron Rogers, Andy Dalton for your year in Cincinnati, it's like,

Starting point is 01:01:12 that's pretty sweet. I mean, that is pretty awesome. It is. Yeah, I mean, that's a great, that's an easy answer,

Starting point is 01:01:19 but it's, it's very true. I feel I have the same kind of feelings to where, I think the Patriots have that, like there's like an aura, there's something about that culture there, which everyone is just so curious. Like,

Starting point is 01:01:29 what's it like on the inside? Right. I have so many buddies that have played there. And it's just, it's a different world there for some reason. So yeah, That'd be very interesting. And any person wants to go somewhere where you know you can win,

Starting point is 01:01:43 and we know the Patriots, especially as long as Tom Brady is there, they're going to win, even though he has a four-game suspension or whatever. But yeah, that'd be a cool call. If let's say you're in the middle of, you've got a big gig at one of the main networks. Regis and Kelly, yeah. Yeah, you got a, you backfilled Michael Strayhan, or you're doing games with Joe Buck or because Troy just said he's out or whatever

Starting point is 01:02:10 and you get that call. Do you go? Is it a guarantee that you go? Who's the call? I guess it depends on where. Okay, no, that's part of your answer. It definitely depend where, yeah. Okay, so like what are the determining factors

Starting point is 01:02:26 if you decide to answer that call and say, all right, I know you're physically ready, you're mentally ready, I know that. So it's not about being ready. It's about like if you, you would say yes. It is. It also depends on, I guess, the broadcasting job, too.

Starting point is 01:02:40 True. It definitely depends on a lot of different things, I guess. I would say the only thing where I'm at is I'm not at the point where I'm just losing my mind trying to get back into like a training camp and all that stuff. Like I'm realistic at the situation and really super excited about like getting more into the broadcasting world and hopefully get a full-time gig. eventually somewhere, whether it's college, NFL, whatever it may be. But when it comes to teams, the determining factors, I mean, honestly, I just would want to go somewhere where I could win.

Starting point is 01:03:16 I don't have any stipulations to where, oh, I got to be a starter, play 30 plays a game. Like, I don't have anything like that. We're in my mind. But I would imagine, like, if a team does call me, they're going to have some kind of need. They're calling for a reason. So that would be, I'd have to see where it would be at and what, what the situation looks like, I guess, as far as depth. And are they trying to bring me in for like two weeks

Starting point is 01:03:39 why a guy got dinged up a little bit or something? I don't think that's a great spot for me. Yeah. We were just at that golf tournament. Who was it? I forget the guy he walked up to you and told you, it gets easier every year that you're not playing. And so obviously, this is a while ago for me.

Starting point is 01:03:55 And I missed a lot of things from playing, and it was really hard. There's depressing moments. However, I never have missed training camp. been August. So, like, I don't know. And I, and we're both, I think, grinders. Like, that's that's where we really got prepared and ready to go. But, I mean, I missed a lot. I missed the games. It was hard to watch any game other than the ones that you played in for the first few years. And I was done. I think every former athlete knows this and goes through it, especially if you love

Starting point is 01:04:24 it and you give everything that you've got to it, you know, like we've done. It's hard at first. And so I wonder if broadcasting will help bridge that gap. Like Brady told me, Brady Quinn. and said, you know, it was like watching the love of this life marry somebody else. But his situation might be a little bit different. I don't know because he only had to play a few years when he definitely, he could still be playing right now. I mean, he's definitely in shape and he can sling it. How do you anticipate that feeling or what do you think it will be if it's week one

Starting point is 01:04:56 and you're doing a game on TV, whether it's college or pro versus playing in one? see like I don't once Cincinnati released me I don't think I felt the way I thought I might feel I maybe just because my whole life I've been preparing for not playing yeah I've known from from my first day my rookie year like all it takes is one slip man

Starting point is 01:05:20 and I'm done I can't play football again so I've always done stuff to prepare myself so like I guess I never I don't know it was a weird it was definitely weird when I realized like, oh, I'm not on a team right now. I'm free agent. I know this was back in April, end of April. I'm thinking like, well, no one's going to sign me like over the next couple months.

Starting point is 01:05:38 I understand the draft was coming, all this stuff. So it was kind of a weird feeling for me, but it wasn't like, I didn't, I wasn't like sad. I wasn't like, it was just, I don't even know. I was almost like indifferent to like, okay, well, cool. Of course. It's going to be nice to be home. I'm always work out.

Starting point is 01:05:55 And then I got really excited about getting more into like media and broadcasting. So I jumped on, I think like three days later. I drove to Chicago and did a quick hit for NFL network during the draft. But I don't know exactly how I'll feel, but I think part of it, part of the reason why I still feel really good is just because no one's ever satisfied with anything you ever do. I guarantee you Tom Brady,

Starting point is 01:06:17 he's won four rings. He's like, dang, I should have had seven or whatever. It may be eight. But I somehow got to 10 years, which I never thought I'd make it to 10 years. So I got 10 years and played 9 in Green Bay and won in Cincinnati. And they had great experiences. everywhere. So that's part of it. Like I don't feel like I've missed out on a bunch or I was chasing

Starting point is 01:06:35 this thing. Like I've really super fortunate to get a ring as well. That was that's huge for me. I love that that that happened in the fifth year I played in the league. But how I feel like watching it, I don't know. Like I've watched different obviously not live football that I'm not taking part of over a while and I've done a lot through with TV. But I don't know. I'm sure it'll be weird, maybe just especially when you know a lot of players. That's probably a different part of it. I know. players that I played with. Even in Green Bay, though, there's a lot. Guys from my draft class are gone.

Starting point is 01:07:06 But there's still a lot of good friends there. So, but yeah, we'll see, I guess. But I feel like I prepared for a long time for it. And I have a lot of stuff that I want to do. And I've had a lot of things that I've planned on. And there's one thing Laura, my wife said to me at one point, people always talk about, but I just wish she could go out. And Lord didn't, she asked me if I was like, well, don't you want to go out

Starting point is 01:07:30 on your own terms or whatever. And that's a thing that people like to say. You want to, you want to retire or leave on your own terms. And I was like, actually, no, I don't,

Starting point is 01:07:38 I don't want to go on my own terms. I don't think I, I don't think I would go on my own terms. Like, I don't think I would just, like, oh, I'm cool. Like, see ya.

Starting point is 01:07:45 I don't know if I could do that. I don't know what year that may be. I mean, physically, well, I'm sure it would, you give us up on you. But I don't think you have to,

Starting point is 01:07:54 like, be held to this thing. Like, no, I'm a man. I'm going to go out on my own terms and tell them what I'm done. They can't tell me when I'm done. I'm like, I'm okay with them telling me when I'm done.

Starting point is 01:08:03 Like, I'm all right with it. I really am. Like, I think everyone, if you're realistic, you understand, too, how everything works. And yeah, there's a billion different factors. 99% of the NFL, they tell you when you're done. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:08:15 I mean, I'm trying to think, like you... They basically told Brett Farve when he was done. Like, they basically told Peyton Manning he was done. Yeah, you're right. Nobody wanted him. I mean, you know what I mean? In injuries are, main reason. But I mean, that's just part of football. So I think that's normal. Okay, these are quick

Starting point is 01:08:30 questions as we get as we wrap up, as you would say. So you got a, you're, you get to play a round of golf on any golf course and you get to pick the three people and it could be anybody in the world living or not. Who are the three people and where are you? I'd play whistling straits in Wisconsin, Kohler. Awesome. One of my favorites. The three people, should I try to like come up with really like scholars like I'm a big smart yeah oh aristotle albert einstein like people come up with like these people no not those guys uh I'd want it to be a fun round so I'm going living or oh my goodness so I would say guys that seem really fun I want to play with Charles Barkley okay I'd want to play a slow round slow round yep but

Starting point is 01:09:23 it'll be fun yeah I'd want it to be slow that's a thing good Charles You want it to be slowed down because I want to listen to his stories. Yeah. Charles Barkley. Honestly, Charles Barkley, Bill Belichick,

Starting point is 01:09:39 because I want to see that, I want to see how his interaction is with Charles. Okay. And then the third would have to be, have to be my man. Have to be Jesus. Bring him back. I'm 32.

Starting point is 01:09:53 He was 33. And I want to see if he wears golf shoes. What is, who's, I have a lot of questions. I love them. I have a lot of questions.

Starting point is 01:10:03 I just need to answer. That, that answer will go with, without any response. Who was, uh, your favorite celebrity you've ever met? I would have to go.

Starting point is 01:10:17 Man, did you come up with these? Yes, I did. It's good. I will say my favorite celebrity I've met. Ooh. Other than Michael Bolton.

Starting point is 01:10:28 See, Michael he was almost almost said Michael bolden. One of the coolest guys ever and we both had on our podcast was Sal Volcano Volcano. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I said this is the last name.

Starting point is 01:10:39 I always say his last name wrong. But in practical jokers, I mean, he's definitely a celebrity in his own right and how his whole, but he was just such a good, genuine guy. But him, I can't narrow it down to one. Honestly, Charles Barkley is one of the guys like, hey, meet your heroes, bro. Meet him. If you, you shouldn't meet some guys that you think are great, but Charles, you want to meet that guy. He's the best.

Starting point is 01:10:58 Yeah. Yeah, I remember in Tahoe just sitting there as he's drinking Diet Coke and just being exactly like he is everywhere else. And he's done a number of times. What is the biggest conspiracy theory that you believe is true? Ooh. I wasn't going to say Bigfoot, but I don't believe Bigfoot's out there. Nope. The film was not that clip, whatever it's called, the Zabruder film for Bigfoot is not real.

Starting point is 01:11:27 The biggest, I'm going to turn, what about you? What's the biggest conspiracy you think? I'm not a big conspiracy theorist person. I'm, see, I'm not, I can't think of even one just because I know there's things that have been made public over the years that were quasi-conspiracy.

Starting point is 01:11:42 Like I think we landed on the moon. Yeah. You know, I, I can't even think of one, but I didn't know if you had, I just don't think, I don't have a hard time with them because no one,

Starting point is 01:11:52 you can't keep anybody quiet. Everybody talks. Right. Can't keep, let alone thousands of people in some of these conspiracies. so I just don't, but I don't know any way where people can contain themselves

Starting point is 01:12:02 and not tell their wives and then her wife goes on Facebook and tells her friends and all that. So I don't, I can't think of one. What's something you'll never be as good at as others? Using proper punctuation when I write. Okay.

Starting point is 01:12:21 That's kind of giving up. I'm kind of giving up on that, which is not good, but I've, I have an issue, man, with commas. I put too many commas in

Starting point is 01:12:30 because I always think that I need commas and I have run on sentences, so I need, I'd actually need your help. Okay. We can work on that. What do you do 60 seconds prior to recording a podcast for that minute? I'll share mine too, just so we can both do this. If I had a little trampoline, I would jump on trampoline like Tony Robbins. It's so funny you said this.

Starting point is 01:12:50 So Tony was on a podcast at some point, I don't know when. And he talked a lot of, actually this is your most recent guest. Steve Graf talked a little bit about this. Tony talked about breathing exercises you do to get ready for the day. And one of them that you can do is take huge deep breaths quickly. And this is something that I just started doing literally like 100 episodes ago, is just taking these huge deep breaths really quickly right before I hit record. And I don't know why, but I just gotten used to it and I like it.

Starting point is 01:13:27 It's like a pre get me. going type routine. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I talked about the Wim Hof deal. I do Wim Hof breathing, not as consistent as I should or I would like to. But yeah, I don't do that right before I record, but I usually listen to, I'm always listening to like different podcasts, but I'll listen to a little bit of music right before I record.

Starting point is 01:13:49 Yep. I like that too. What's your favorite movie? Top Gun. Yes. All day. Still. I didn't know if you'd changed it.

Starting point is 01:13:59 what's your favorite book good to go by harry constance navy seal vietnam i've read that long time i was i say that's not a new one it stuck with it stuck with me and that kind of got me into all other kind of books uh i always loved the military and loved special forces and i read his book and it was just so like it just felt real it felt like he wasn't trying to become famous

Starting point is 01:14:25 like he wasn't trying to get a tv show off of it it was just it was unbelievable hearing the type of stuff that they did and when he uh i don't know just to think at the stuff that guys do maybe it was also because it was before there's so many books out about uh different military operations so this question um i think is actually a hard question so if you don't know yet we can come come well well i don't know answer the next time we do a podcast when you meet somebody new and you're trying to get to know them or understand the way they are. What are a few questions you ask them to deeply understand how they think? I would say one question I like to ask people that they never seem to get asked

Starting point is 01:15:15 is how do you feel? And and then if you actually and when they say good good I'm like all right how do you how do you feel bro like how do you how do you really feel? Do you really do this? What do you think? Yeah I have but I have to kind of know the person. Okay I wish that you the question was, I guess, for people that I don't know. Yeah, like, sometimes you meet people and you and you ask questions to, I don't know. I like to know. Yeah. I guess, I want to get to know, not necessarily get to know them. I want to get to know how they think. This is more of an interview type of a situation. Like if you're interviewing somebody for a job, that I've got a lot of experience with this. So like I, you know, I, I personally want to know about mentors in their life. I want to know about difficult moments and what they, how. I, you know, I, you know, I personally want to know about. I, and what they, how they responded to those moments. I want real life examples and stories. So there's ways to ask those questions, I think, to that elicit. And part of it is being in the environment where they're kind of in the,

Starting point is 01:16:13 they're knowing that they're going to have to answer some questions. So it's not necessarily you go to a dinner party and you're like, hey, man, tell me about your mentors in your life. I mean, I guess you could do that. And it can maybe. I'm not going to a dinner party. It could naturally evolve to maybe that coming up. But I mean, I think, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 01:16:28 Yeah. I mean, I would say, if I kind of know the person, I love to ask, like, how do you feel? Because if you think about it, people, no one ever asked anybody how you feel. I started with my kids. Like, how do you feel? And they were, oh, I'm like, no, really. Like, how do you feel about what just happened or whatever? And so they actually, no one ever gets asked to that.

Starting point is 01:16:45 But then I just like to ask people all the time, what do you, like, what do you think? Like, because I go on these long rambles about whatever. And I'm like, what do you think? Or if they're going to, they're speaking on a topic and I have a follow up, I won't sometimes, a lot of times I'll try to not give my opinion and I'll just ask them what what do you I don't know what do you think even in the email when you talk to people if I'm telling somebody like telling them what's going on or answering their questions I'll still throw my opinion and what I went out there and I'll end it like well what about you what do you think and just see because I think no one really asked asked questions do you just want to talk back that's kind of how it seems like it goes a lot of times with people all right. last one. How do you, over a year ago, when I, way more than a year ago, actually now, when I told you that the name of my podcast was The Learning Leaders Show, what was the very first thought that came to your mind? Fully realizing that people who title things, whether it's

Starting point is 01:17:51 authors of books, directors and writers of movies, people who make podcasts think a lot more about their title than anyone else does. I know that. I'm curious of what your first thought was. I think I just felt right. I didn't even question it. I don't think I ever, I didn't even say like, oh, why is that? I think it speaks for itself. And it made sense with you for sure. So I think you probably remember.

Starting point is 01:18:14 I was never even, I don't think I even said, oh, why did you go with that name? Did you get the metrics and get a focus group and do that? Like, you didn't do all that. No, I didn't. Yeah. I sure hope not because your podcast will be terrible. Someone's doing focus groups on the name of their podcast. It could still be good.

Starting point is 01:18:30 No, it can't. No, it can't. That's where you differ. That's why I'm sorry for all the professional, educated people that listen to your show. I just, yeah, I mean,

Starting point is 01:18:40 I just think when something is taking, when it's not organic and it's not true anymore, it sucks. Usually, there's obviously nothing is black and white. There's always examples, outliers. But for the most part,

Starting point is 01:18:52 man, when you try to like craft this, when you try to craft anything too much, especially when it comes to this, long form podcast, casual interviews, talks. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:19:02 When you try to craft them and have like too many things, it just isn't, it's going to turn back into local AM radio or a film junket like we've talked about to where they're going to come on and promote your book. Oh, what do you think? And then they're going to shut you down when you want to ask a real question. I completely agree. I like it. Is there anything else you want to share since we're doing this? What did you call it? Swapcast.

Starting point is 01:19:27 I don't even know. You think we should put it on mine too? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. You don't want to or you want to? I do, but I feel like then at the same time, this is my weirdness feeling like, I want to put a podcast on my own podcast, me just basically talking about myself?

Starting point is 01:19:43 No, I think you actually, I don't know if we're still recording or not, but I think you should. I am. I think you should do more episodes either by yourself or like this, where people want to get to know you better. Like they watch you on other podcasts or I listen to you. it. They really like it. And I mean, I'm personally trying to do more of this too, and I haven't done it at all. So I need to like practice what I preach. But, um, you've got a another level of, there's a combination of fame from football and your platform to now, like there's a lot of people who recognize that you have this podcast that they want to hear from you. They want to, they want to know what you think about these things. And they don't want to have to go to other places. They'd rather come to your place and get to know. So I don't I would absolutely put this on yours. I'm saying that I'm not saying to try to like gain some of your listeners. I'm saying it purely because I think even if you did it by yourself or with anybody else interviewing you, I think you should do more of these types of episodes.

Starting point is 01:20:46 The episode that we did when you got released from Green Bay where you just were an open book, you shared how you felt you didn't try to sugarcoat it or act like it was something different. You just got cut, right? You got released and it's it's the most popular one by fall. because people, and part of it is because it was an event. And the other part was because people just like the fact that you showed you're human. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I'm with you. I think part of it, though, is that you've done a good job of removing all ego.

Starting point is 01:21:16 So your approach to life in general is, well, people don't really care what I think. And I'm telling you that that's wrong. Like, they do care. And so that's why you should do more of these things. And I don't know. I'll ask people to respond. whether it's social media or since you put yours on YouTube maybe they could respond there or email I maybe they'll tell you tell you that they can they you can listen to what your your listeners and

Starting point is 01:21:41 your fans think or mine from from from from my website learning leader dot com if let me know too like like I think this is fun this is enjoyable for me and I I believe it'll be enjoyable for for other people too I'm with you yeah it's always the fine line of a feeling like you're like the not self-promotion or yeah i don't know it's a weird thing i don't think you need like i'm getting over to bit i don't think you need like a solo episode per week as i know there are people who do that i i don't know i would i don't know if i'd ever do that but like maybe one every few weeks or month i don't know i mean that's what's the cool thing about podcasts is we just kind of we can try things and if it doesn't work that's completely cool we can just go on to something else you know

Starting point is 01:22:23 i think people enjoy experimentation and that's that's what we've done i've tried certain things that just flat out, I thought were going to be incredible and they just didn't work. And I've tried other things that I was really scared and thought, oh, I can't release this than I do. And then all of a sudden it's like, people are like, that's awesome. So you just never know. Yeah, you don't, I guess. Put it out there and let the people decide.

Starting point is 01:22:44 You're right. You know, whatever. So it's all good. All right. Well, I'm not doing like the typical ending because like we talk all the time. So I'll probably text you here in about 15 minutes. We'll put this up hopefully within like a week of the recording date. It's going to be, we don't need to date it.

Starting point is 01:23:04 It'll be listened to by our kids in 20 years. So that's what this is all about. That's right. I like it. Thanks for having me on learning leader show and the swapcast we call it. Swapcast. It's a new term. It's not new.

Starting point is 01:23:18 For me, it's a new term. It's been around. I've seen some guys do it and they call it that. But yes. So thank you to your. So your second. appearance on the Learning Leader show. My second appearance on the Hawkcast.

Starting point is 01:23:30 Yeah. A little bit different time now, but I loved it. Everybody, if you want us to do more of these, I think it's fun. We'll probably do it regardless of what people say. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If you do it more or less, no, but it doesn't, we don't care. We will do it either way. We'll do it either way, so it's all

Starting point is 01:23:46 good. Yeah. All right. We're all done. Thanks, fair. See you. This episode of the Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again and we'll see you next time

Starting point is 01:24:16 on the Learning Leader Show.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 145: AJ Hawk - Life In The NFL: Awareness, Consistency, Curiosity

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