The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 146: Steven Sisler Psychoanalyzes Me - I Am Unorthodox, Mission Oriented, Logical, Competitive, & Complex

Episode Date: July 31, 2016

Episode 146: Steven Sisler Psychoanalyzes Me - I Am Unorthodox, Mission Oriented, Logical, Competitive, & Complex Steven Sisler is a Behavioral Analyst, speaker and author. Steve's consultation involves personality difference, leadership strategy, cultural differences, and temperament strategy. Working with clients in more than 18 countries, Steve gathers behavioral and attitudinal information on individuals within corporate settings and develops strategies for effective leadership, teamwork, and entrepreneurial success. Steve makes normative judgments and brings thought provoking insights to the three ethical platforms within our society. These are the Community Ethic, The Autonomy Ethic, and The Divinity Ethic, and these platforms all have strong implications when challenged with ideological frameworks outside of those accepted within larger people groups. Steven was diagnosed with Hyper Kinetic Behavior in the second grade. He was beat up by girls and fought his way through nine years of intense bullying including being stripped down to his underwear and locked in a seven inch school locker in the seventh grade, kicked by a teacher in front of his class, and knocked unconscious by an eleven member gang on the school grounds. Episode 146: Steven Sisler Psychoanalyzes Me - I Am Unorthodox, Mission Oriented, Logical, Competitive, & Complex Subscribe on iTunes  or Stitcher Radio The Learning Leader Show "Character is learned and character changes." In This Episode, You Will Learn: People who understand themselves and embrace their strengths and weaknesses typically sustain excellence Tony Robbins and Tim Ferriss have a great understanding of themselves What it means to be a "behavioral profiler" The biggest misconceptions of Steve's work The Four People Types: Mad Glad Sad Scared Why job interviews are not authentic The power of saying "I don't know" I like to know "why" more than "how" Measuring my emotional framework -- How Steve describes me based on the tests I took Mission and results oriented person Logical and left brained Have a great poker face. Not showing emotion. A very task oriented person -- "Give me the shovel" Quick, very flexible, independent, freedom seeker, wanting to be in charge Like to control the environment, suspicious -- People have to qualify to get in and be trusted A teacher -- Would make a great college professor A complex brain - Always want to know why? Much more competitive with self than other people High expectations of self -- Never feel content with what's been accomplished, never satisfied An outside the box thinker -- Has unorthodox ideas and approaches to solving problems -- Answers questions in an interesting way, not a typical way A creative problem solver who never gives up A high empathy score -- But can be emotionally distant at times In the 2% of personality score (matches very few people in the world) Go to FreeBRG.com to get your own personality test "I like to know why more than to know how." Continue Learning: Go to FreeBRG.com to get your own personality test Follow Steve on Twitter: @stevesisler To Follow Me on Twitter: @RyanHawk12 You may also like these episodes: Episode 078: Kat Cole – From Hooters Waitress To President of Cinnabon Episode 082: Dan Pink – The Science of Motivation, Legendary Writer & Ted Talk Episode 086: Seth Godin – How To Become Indispensable & Build Your Tribe Episode 107: Simon Sinek – Leadership: It Starts With Why Did you enjoy the podcast? If you enjoyed hearing Steven Sisler on the show, please don't hesitate to send me a note on Twitter or email me. Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell Bio From Amazon.com Steven Sisler is a Behavioral Analyst, speaker and author. Steve's consultation involves personality difference, leadership strategy, cultural differences, and temperament strategy. Working with clients in more than 18 countries, Steve gathers behavioral and attitudinal information on individuals within corporate settings and develops strategies for effective leadership, teamwork, and entrepreneurial success. Steve makes normative judgments and brings thought provoking insights to the three ethical platforms within our society. These are the Community Ethic, The Autonomy Ethic, and The Divinity Ethic, and these platforms all have strong implications when challenged with ideological frameworks outside of those accepted within larger people groups. Steven was diagnosed with Hyper Kinetic Behavior in the second grade. He was beat up by girls and fought his way through nine years of intense bullying including being stripped down to his underwear and locked in a seven inch school locker in the seventh grade, kicked by a teacher in front of his class, and knocked unconscious by an eleven member gang on the school grounds. After losing his left eye in 1975, he was singled out and repeatedly punched in the eye by menacing students. At the age of 17 he became a bodybuilder and for the next 3 years worked out intensely until he was bench pressing well over 300 pounds. He later entered seminary after marrying his wife Anita and has since spoken in many forums including youth groups, retreats, churches, seminaries, business groups and currently consults and motivates leaders around the globe.

Great question, by the way, because interviews are the most unauthentic things there are. So, you know me, you've met me, so authenticity is number one. The problem in companies today and why they're in, they get in trouble with hires is because they're too professional and they're not enough personal. And for some reason, because of an industrial model that goes way back, we believed professional. was better than personal, but it's not because you're acting professional, but you're hiring a person. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader

Show with Ryan Hawk. This episode is brought to you by Deor Design. If you've gone to learning leader.com recently, you've noticed a massive upgrade. This is in thanks to the great leaders at Dejore Design. So if you're looking for a new website, website update, SEO, social media, email campaigns, or perhaps you need to create a logo for yourself or your business, so you're looking to redesign your logo. I cannot emphasize enough how great the people are at Deior Design to work with. I personally do not endorse or allow sponsorships of this podcast for people who I do not either buy their products or utilize them for their services. And that is why I'm so excited to partner with at DeOre Design to sponsor the Learning Leader

Show. So go to learningleader.com slash website. That's learningleader.com slash website. We'll get you connected directly with the people at DeOor Design and get a good deal for you. I promise you guys will enjoy it. Learningleader.com slash website. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawke.

And thank you so much for being here. what an enlightening conversation I had with Stephen Sistler. Steve is a certified professional behavioral analyst and the founder and CEO of the behavioral resource group. His passion is to utilize his expertise in human nature, behavior, and personality difference to help people discover their fullest potential. Basically, what Steve does is he sends each of his clients these tests to fill out. It takes about an hour, and he sent them to me two weeks ago for me to fill out prior to. to this conversation. And then he does a debrief or a behavioral analysis. And he shares with you who you are, why you are the way you are, how you go about your life, some of the advantages to

your style, and also some potential areas that you need to work on. And I will just say this was the most vulnerable episode I personally have ever had. Steve shared some things with me that I have never been told before, but I found so helpful. You'll learn about some misconceptions out there in the world, and Steve will clear them up. But I have to say, this one absolutely makes me a little bit nervous. However, I'm also excited for you guys to hear this one

with Steven Sistler. All right, Steve, I'm so excited slash scared, maybe for this conversation, maybe more than anyone I've had up to this point over 150 plus. conversations I've had with world-class leaders. And I really appreciate you being here. I think this is going to be an interesting one for all of, you know, my great listeners here at the Learning Leaders Show to hear.

I love the work that you do, Steve. I've told you before we even started recording that I admire your ability to be authentic and transparent and even share sometimes tough news with people. But I've got a question. You've studied some of the greatest performers in the world, world-class, class leaders. I'm curious. What are some of the common themes or characteristics you found and the people who have been able to sustain excellence for an extended period of time? Thank you, Ryan. Number one, for having me on the show and for that great introduction.

So, yeah, looking at leaders and character traits that tend to keep people on top, if you want to call it that, are successful. Are people who, understand themselves and embrace it. That to me is the biggest plus for being very successful in the world is understanding you have strengths, understanding you have weaknesses and embracing them both. Rather than I hate this about myself, I've got to change that type of a mentality. So I think that would be my best answer to that. When you hear the phrase sustained excellence, who are the first people?

people that come to mind? I would say sustained excellence, uh, somebody that would fit into something like that is somebody like maybe a Tony Robbins who began 30 years ago and is maintained an upward climb the entire time. I would say somebody like a Tim Ferriss who is an outlier. Uh, in other words, not a lot of people like that on the world scale,

but yet consistently. finds things that are so unique that it keeps him in a place of excellence. I mean, I've heard him speak, and he's not like the best speaker in the world. That's actually not his gift. He has other amazing gifts. That's not one of them, but with him, it really doesn't matter. Yeah. And so it's because his strengths are so strong in the areas that do matter for him, and he's

really learned to capitalize on it. Yeah. Steve, when you're at a dinner party and somebody who has never met you or heard of you walks up to you and says, hey, Steve, what do you do? How do you respond? I just look at them and say, I'm a behavioral profiler. And I love doing it because I love the reactions. And I usually get, you mean with the FBI? That's usually what I get. And I say, not exactly. And then a great conversation ensues where I ultimately end up profiling them on the spot. And then as that's happening, there tends to be a little crowd gathering. Oh yeah. I had a guy.

at an event, I was at the Chamber of Commerce. And we get to talk. And he said, what I do? I said a behavioral profiler. He goes, oh, really? Do me. That's what he said. So I said, okay, I looked at what he was wearing.

I looked at his hair, how he kept his hair. I asked him what he did for a living. And then I asked him if he liked it. And he said, he loved it. And I told him he was driving a BMW and I got it right. How did you know? Because he was a high complaint. structural thinker who is always got, you know, safety in mind and reliability and who is service

oriented. So he would likely want a car that has an extended service plan, that's safe, that is reliable, that has stood the test of time and all these different traditional things. And to look at the way he was dressed, he could afford an expensive car. So I guessed BMW and I guessed they're right. Are there other aspects of what you do that can allow you to make the I don't know if the word is judgments that quickly, maybe based on some of the behavioral analysis and the tests that I personally did. We're going to get to that at some point here during the conversation. But like, can you sit there and say, I bet he drives this.

He does this for a living. I mean, is this a gift or where does this come from? Yeah, it is a gift. I, you know, I actually kind of shy away from talking like that. I've had people call me up and want me to be their business psychic. which to me just sounds crazy. And I tell them no. I'm not a psychic.

And they're kind of disappointed. So mystic types will look in that direction and try to find that. Anyway, it is a gift. So I can't look at everybody and tell them what they drive, but I'll be talking to some people and see the car in my mind. I see it. And that's when I do it. That's when I say it.

If I'm called upon to do it, I'll try. And I probably get it about 70% of the time. but I don't like doing that. But I was consulting with a person and I just came out of my mouth and said, well, when you're driving your Volvo, as I was talking, he goes, oh my God, I love Volvos. And I just, it just came out. So I get into a flow with a debrief when I'm working with people and things just kind of happen. But I've learned over the years, I'm 53, to just go with it because I tend to be right most of the time. So can what you do be learned?

I'm thinking of a regular person who's going to be fascinated by the end of this conversation, and they already are. Their interest is piqued by what you're saying, and they're saying, I want to do this. I think I can, I think I'm very self-aware, and I think I'm aware of my surroundings and people. So have what you become, you're a combination of potentially a gift you were born with, plus then the professional study to be. become an expert? Yes. So I'm a gift spurt. Okay. Then I'm also an expert because I read a lot. I study this every day and I debriefed thousands of people reading thousands of graphs. So I've been doing

this hunkered in a bunker for 10 years on the phone every day reading people. So I'm just really good at it born that way, then I'm really good at it for doing it a lot, and I'm really good at it because I study it. And so can other people learn? Yes, I've, I certify people. I've certified one, two, three people. I'm certifying three right now, who will be certified in behavioral analysis, and I will give them all my secrets. But they sign disclosures and non-competes and all this, you know, when we do it, and I assist them in understanding how the brain works and how people work, but then all the things I know intuitively, I give them that too. What's the biggest misconception with what you do, Steve?

Well, one of the big misconceptions I've run into is people think all I do is help them hire the right people, and it's not all I do. I do a ton of things. and because I'm not out there marketing myself as the guru in all this, it kind of, you know, so people will introduce me, oh, this guy, if you want to hire somebody, you know, use this guy and it's like, okay, that's one of like 500 things I do. Meaning, you meaning like if somebody needs to hire for a leadership role at a company, they might bring you in to help with that process?

Yes. Matter of fact, they will grow through. Some people have hired me. They said, Stephen, go find me a leader like this. And that's all. say. And then I go do everything. So by the time I've got a person down, narrowed down, I know they're blood type. So you're almost like a recruiter for people at times. Yeah, but it's a customized recruiter. It's not the recruiters that have a big pool filled with bodies and they throw

some at you. Yeah. Yeah. It's I'm finding the person with the central traits, the character traits, the behavioral traits, the mind, left-brained, you know, analytical or right-brained intuitive to work with that particular leader and they want them to stay 10 years at least, I'll find that person. Interesting. You wrote a book called The Four People Types and What Drives Them. I love to learn a little bit more about the, that's amongst other books you've written, but I love to learn about the four types of people and what drives each of them. So the Four People Types is a book based upon the four primary emotions we all have, which is math. glad, sad, and scared. So everybody has one of those emotions in peak or in intensified level, which just means if we measured it on a scale, it would be above 50.

But the highest one out of the four will be the central trait, that emotion. So I wrote a book about those four people types and what to expect because you're married to one of them, you're dating one of them, you're raising one of them, and you're working for one of them. And so knowing that person really well will basically save you a lot of time, energy, heartache, money, all kinds of things, once you understand, you know, what you're getting into in a situation. So the book really goes in depth. It's over 300 pages and it's, it might be a little heavy. But every review I've gotten is five stars still, which is fascinating. And it was in the top 100 in psychology not too long ago. You know, ebbs and flows. But people love that book. I have a

guy, a policeman in Boston told me he's on his fourth reading through it. Wow. It says it's, wonderful for his job and everything. People just love it. But yeah, so it breaks down these people types and how you can observably tell. If you learn that book, you can read a person in under three minutes. Interesting. So when you're at events in person, so I, you know, we both want to Mastermind Talks in Ohio, California this year, Jason's Gannard's event, when you're at events like that and you're meeting somebody for the first time, is that part of what's going on? Are you, I guess for lack of a better term, doing a behavioral analysis, you're getting a read on them? Yeah, I mean, I can get a read in a handshake. I'll shake a person's hand. And,

you've seen movies or TV shows where maybe someone shakes somebody's hand and then the frame stops and then it goes in a tunnel and you see this person, you know, kidnapping somebody, you know, that kind of, sometimes it's like that. I'll shake a hand and I'll just get imagery of a person, not bad things a person's doing, but like I'll shake a hand and go conflict avoider. conflict avoider in my head. How will you know that? Based on a handshake.

Part of it I don't know why it happens that way, but part of it is the type of handshake I get. So the amount of energy in the handshake, are they looking at me or the floor or to one side? What is their mouth doing? How are they dressed? It all comes in at once, like, and then I get a full picture. So it's like in my analysis, I'm measuring, I got 11 lines that I'm looking at 11 numbers.

When I look at those 11 numbers, although there are 11 separate numbers meaning separate things, I'm seeing everything at the same time. Yeah. This is what's made me into the expert that I am and why I'm now getting more and more people hear about it, the more demand I'm getting. It's because I look at something and see that as a whole. I actually went on a webinar. I was asked to do a webinar for Dr. Tony Alessander who runs a company called Assessments 24-7.

And he has 800 action coaches that he provides assessments for and works with or whatnot. He basically sells assessments. So I did a webinar for him on how to read an assessment, like read these lines and these lines together. And it blew up to the point of where he said it was the most. He got the most phone calls, the most emails, the most everything that he's ever gotten on a webinar ever. And I'm now speaking at his conference every year. And out of that came me building an assessment. So he put me in touch with a statistical analyst, algorithm builder.

And he said, we've got to get your brain into an assessment. And right now we've got an assessment coming out after two years that is going to blow everything away. And then we got two more that are going to be coming out. Love it. And so I'm getting my intuition on paper working with a mathematician, and it's been amazing. If somebody came to you and asked your advice and they said, hey, Steve, I am about to interview for a job promotion that I really want. And they asked for your advice on from everything from the second they walked in to that office to when they shook hands with the hiring manager. to everything in between.

What are some of the tips you would give to this person who would ask for your advice to make them best represent their true selves? Right. So a great question, by the way, because interviews are the most unauthentic things there are. Right. So, you know, you know me. You've met me. So authenticity is number one.

The problem in companies today and why they're in they get in trouble with hires is because they're too professional and they're not enough personal. And for some reason, because of an industrial model that goes way back, we believed professional was better than personal. But it's not because you're acting professional, but you're hiring a person. So you're getting personal. So you're getting all their personal problems. You're getting their personal thoughts, their ideas, their beliefs. You're getting all that. but you think you're getting a machine to do a job.

So what I recommend people do is it's so stupid, it's simple. Just be yourself, look at them. And if you don't know the answer to something, tell them. Because not knowing the answer and telling them you don't know will get you hired quicker than not knowing an answer and trying to come up with something that sounds good. I found, in my experience, Steve, after speaking with a number of some of the highest performers in the world, greatest leaders that, especially if they're really secure in themselves, they're so willing to use the phrase, I don't know. And the insecure leader, I'm sure you found this and you've read this

through your analysis and talking to people thousands of times, the insecure leaders will never, ever utter that phrase. And it fascinates me that people are unwilling to say they don't know because we're human beings. I mean, I don't think anyone should be expected to know every single thing about every single topic that ever comes up. So I admire those who genuinely kind of give you that look and they say, you know what, I'm not sure. But I am going to try to figure it out and find out. And I can ask somebody to help me. And then I will. And then they go and they kind of devour whatever it is they need to in order to learn more about it. And I think those are the, for me, the types of leaders that I prefer to be around. Absolutely. I mean, I was speaking out at MIT

at the Entrepreneurs Master's Program. And I got to ask a question. And I didn't know the answer. And I immediately said, you know, I don't know the answer to that. You know, next. And then when we were done, the woman that asked the question came up to me after, said, that was one of the most refreshing answers I've ever heard. Yeah. And, I mean, it was great because she was a fan because I didn't know something.

That's great. You see, now, where you get people that can't do it, it's a certain kind of a profile. They're high theoreticals. In other words, they like to know why. more than they want to know how. And they, these people have a fear of being stupid. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So what they, what their brain does is if they don't know, their brain tells them it's because they can't know. But really, I don't know because I haven't found out yet. Hmm. Okay.

And that changes the entire equation. Yeah. I don't know because I haven't found out yet. Why is that my fault? Yeah. once I find out, then I'll know, then I'll be just like you. Yeah, I got it. So not knowing something means you haven't got the answer yet, but certain brains think if they

don't know, that's a bad thing, even if they could just go get the answer. They need the answer now or it's bad according to their brain. Gotcha. Well, so prior to us talking, you had sent me these, I don't know if you call them test or assessments to fill out. And I think I spent roughly, I don't know, 30 minutes to a lot. an hour filling them out, Steve, with the intent of you doing a behavioral analysis on me. And we're doing this live for the first time. I do not know what you're about to say. That's the scary part

of this. And really, I want to, maybe we'll flip it now, and you're going to take the lead and share what you know about me from, I mean, the bulk of what you know about me, or almost all of it is going to be from these assessments that I fill out in the brief time that we got to talk at the mastermind talks. And so I'm very curious to learn. I don't even know what to say, other than to say that I want to kind of give the mic to you to take the lead and certainly let me know your thoughts based on what you read. Okay. So I'm going to do kind of a quick overview because this typically would come with a 90 minute debrief. Gotcha.

Okay. So that's an hour and a half of going through this. So now, just so you know, I'm looking at numbers, just numbers. I'm not reading anything but numbers. Should we describe the test that I took to? Or are you going to do that as you debrief? Is that what you're going to do? Yeah, yeah.

So there's three things I'm measuring. So number one, I'm measuring your emotional framework. In other words, four primary emotions, which are anger, optimism, patience, and fear. So measuring them on a scale of zero to a hundred. So I'm seeing where you fall. Once I see these numbers and where your anger emotion is, your patience emotion, optimism, then that's when I start knowing things. So there's two graphs that come up. There's a natural and then there's an adapted.

So the natural graph is your character base. In other words, your brain has to negotiate every environment it finds itself in. So when you're born, you enter a family, your brain now has to survive and succeed in that environment. Okay. So for the first 14 years, you're navigating this environment for survival and success. Now, some people come out still being survivors because they literally survived that childhood. Some people come out of there successful because they thrived the childhood. They didn't survive anything.

They just learned how to thrive in the environment. So depending upon, you know, people's environments, then you got a school environment. Now your brain changes again. You got college. Your brain changes again. You got work. Your brain changes again. So your brain is consistently navigating the world.

We call this character. Character is learned and character changes. Okay. So when I'm looking at your graph, your anger emotion is coming in at a 55 and it adapts to over 80. Okay. So this means your style is a determined, you have a determined brain that has a taking orientation. And what that means is your brain believes that anything of value lies outside yourself

and that if you want it, you got to go get it. Okay. So what you'll do is you'll tend to go take it, bring it home, and subdue it. So when you're orienting, when you're working, you're on a mission of, you know, gaining and getting results. Okay. Okay. So this is a high anger emotion, which is very results oriented. It's very determined.

It's very logical. So you are a logical person. You think in matter-of-fact ways, likely left-brained, analytical. And that's your primary way of doing things. Now, your natural style is in what's known as a me-me-me-conflict. In other words, it's like hurry up and slow down. So that will cause you to be difficult to read. So you're what I call the dog. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to pet. Okay, so there are some dogs, you walk up to it, let's say a beagle, it's wagging its tail, it's little, it's, it's, you know, watery eyes looking at you with the sad face. Nobody regrets or fears getting down on one knee and patting that dog's head.

You're like a lab, black lab pit bull mix with a little scar on your nose and you're just staring at me. So I'm like, do I go over there? What will happen? I don't know. So if you're standing there at a group and then there's a beagle next to you, guess where I'm going? The beagle. To the beagle. Because I don't know what will happen when I go to you or what I will get because human beings are looking for clues and the only place to find them is on the face.

And on your face, you've cut the cord that leads to your emotions. So there's nothing there. That sounds bad. It's not bad. There's no such thing is bad to this. It just means if you take up poker, you'll likely win. Yeah, I play poker. Okay, okay.

Because I don't know your hand, and I will never know. And so you have that ability to do that. So you can't associate good and bad with it because there's really no such thing. So I bring a basketball to the football game. Is it a good ball or a bad ball? Well, it's the wrong ball because in the basketball game, the ball's great. Okay. So your behavior can be great in the right place.

Are there certain professions or actions that my makeup would show people like that have similar makeup to me would excel in? Yeah. Tasks. You're a task oriented style. Okay. So your style is like, give me the shovel. It's blunt, matter of fact, to the point, get it done. Gotcha. Okay, so it's quick. It's very flexible. You can be very flexible like a Corvette. You can turn without flipping over. You're also independent, self-willed, stubborn, and you're a freedom seeker. So you're looking for freedom and autonomy in the world. You also want to be in charge of your own space. So you're what we call large and in charge. So when you're listening to somebody, as a lot of you're,

a rule. That doesn't mean you don't adapt so things go well. But just left to yourself, leave your brain to itself. When you're listening to somebody tell you what bad thing happened to them that day, your thought is, here's how to fix that. Okay. Okay, because you're a fixing brain. Gotcha. So, you listen to direct and control or to agree or disagree, but it's probably hard for you to listen just to understand and go, oh, that's awful. Is this common among men? No. It's not? No.

Okay. Nope. There's no association with male or female here. There's women like this. The only reason I say that is because I don't know, maybe it's just from movies, but you hear about guys, I feel like who are the fixers who basically say that they're like or if you're reading like men are from Mars, winter from Venus or random stuff. They say, well, a guy hears it and he's like, all right, I'm going to fix it. Let's get it done. Whereas sometimes the wife in the relationship or in a book like that,

says they're more understanding. They want to know more. They want to do it versus somebody like me or, I don't know, maybe potentially other guys that they don't necessarily care as much. They care about fixing it and getting it done. Okay. Well, okay. So that is a little right.

Okay. But it's a myth. It's a myth. Gotcha. Well, it's good to hear that. You're the guy to talk to you. So that's not. No, it works.

I mean, it's just like in church, there are certain things that, quote, preach well. doesn't mean they're true. Gotcha. And so that's kind of the same thing happening there. But women are breastfeeders. Okay, women are breastfeeders. Men are not breastfeeders. So there is a fundamental difference between men and women.

Right. And what comes with breastfeeding is, you know, nurture, protection. So women are protectors, nesters. We're animals. We're just higher animals. So women tend to nest because they mother children. The only reason why a man looks at a woman and gets aroused is because his brain thinks that will make a good baby. That's what the brain is thinking.

And we put everything else attached to that because there are drives that cause us to want to make babies so we keep living. But it's really about making babies. It's not about she's hot for this reason or I can have her as a trophy wife. That's not it. You're thinking that's going to make a good baby. That's what your brain's doing. And so there are things there that transcend all the books out there. But so not all men are fixers.

I know plenty of men that can't fix anything and don't want to. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So look at everybody loves Raymond. He's not a fixer. The wife is. And it's hilarious because everybody identifies with it.

So what is that telling us? Yeah. So there are all kinds of people in all kinds of places. And I work with companies in 18 countries. I get CEOs of every walk and kind and type in behavior. So it's not these make the best CEOs. These don't. It's no.

The people who know their place in the world and what they're good at make the best everything. Gotcha. Okay. So the style could be anything. Anyway, back to your graph. So you like to control your environment. You also are suspicious style. So your style really keeps an emotional distance from other people as a rule.

Not that anybody would know that, but people don't get all the way in. You probably have to qualify to get in to your, quote, vulnerable spot. You don't let anyone walk into your bedroom and smell your sheets. You know what I mean? Like I'm making a graphic example. There's a lot of off limits to your style. So your style is very hard to take advantage of it. Hmm. Okay.

So sneaking up on you is difficult. Because you probably assume it's coming. Interesting. In other words, when you look at people in the world, this is going to sound bad, but you can't take it that way. It's almost like everybody's guilty until proven innocent. That actually, I think up to this point, I've agreed. That part is a little bit surprising. I know.

Because I'm going to explain it. Okay. In other words, if I came to you and said, dude, I will be the best salesperson you ever had. You're going to think, prove it. Not really great. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

No, that is an accurate statement. I guess I was thinking more along the lines that I think it's a better way to approach life is to assume people are going to do the right thing. And I and I do. I personally, Steve, assume people are going to do the right thing. And at times, all of us who assume that will be burned. Okay. So listen now. Okay.

You understand that. You know that that is a better way. Yeah. But your brain knows there's an upside to everybody and a downside to everybody. Some people don't know that And those are the ones that the psychopaths kidnap They don't know that They're the ones sitting on the park bench

They get up and their iPhones gone The guy next to them stole it. They didn't know it Gotcha okay So it's almost like a bit of an awareness It's a heightened awareness About what people have a capacity to do That's not good Got you, okay

You have that radar on. Your house is always armed. The alarm system's always on at your emotional house. No, it actually is always on in reality too. See, that's because it's an extension of who you are. Yeah, that's funny that you mentioned that. Okay, so if you were a car, you'd have that red light blinking on the dashboard and you'd have a club on the steering wheel. So am I going to break into your car or I'm going to go to the convertible with the top down and the keys in it? that's your opposite profile.

It seems like it would be more enjoyable to hang out with a person like that, though, the opposite of what you're describing me as. No, because you've got a lot of good traits here. Okay, okay. Again, 90 minutes, you know, typically on these. So you believe there's more than one way to skin a cat. Let me show you a lot of this quickly. Okay.

You're a freedom seeker. You look like a teacher. You actually have a professorship profile. You could lecture at a college on something you're well-versy. in and have a great class and people walk away loving that class saying you might be their favorite teacher. Okay. Okay.

That's for sure right here. I'm looking at it. You also have a complex brain that wants to know why more than it wants to know how, which is interesting. The guy that knows how has a job, guy that knows why is typically the boss. So you've got a big why factor. So you're like a private investigator. And so your brain's always on on.

It's tough to shut it off. You're the lifelong learner. If you watch television. you probably watch the history channel. Yeah, dead on, dead on. So it's because you need to learn new information because you have an itchy brain. The only way to scratch it is to learn something your brain never knew before. So that's constant, which is why you do this show because you get to sit here and have fun and learn all day.

Exactly. So your brain, you're called the lifelong learner. Yeah. Now, interesting, you're not very competitive, although you might disagree with me, but I'm telling you you're not. You're more creative than you are competitive. I'm also seeing here that you're probably 10 times the person you think you are. So the reason why you keep saying that sounds bad, is that bad? That doesn't sound good is because you have low self-esteem.

Okay, which means you're too demanding on yourself and critical of things you think you should know but didn't. Is that self-esteem though? It is. It is self-esteem. Because I think I view it as being. never satisfied with what I've accomplished and always seeking something more to have more impact on the world to positively impact more people to get more emails even more from all over the world from fans who said they've been positively impacted like I always feel like even if I get

a million I want two million and if I get two million I want 10 million and you know what I mean Steve, I think, to me, though. Let me tell you why. Okay. Listen, I, I know. I know the answers here. Okay. You, this is going to be good for you. You, you, you're worth. Your worth. What are you worth? We call it self worth. What are you worth? You are worth more when you know more. You are worthless when you know less. This is the brain. You're worth more when you know more. So you actually can slip into becoming a human doing instead of a human being. So people that are human beings are different than people that are human doing. So you will find satisfaction in learning and doing and learning and doing and learning and doing. and you might find solitude in doing something, not sleeping.

Because you're a doer and your brain feels good when it does things and therefore it says you're good. So if you're not busy, you might feel lazy. Yep. But are you a lazy person? Read King Solomon about lazy people like a hinge. they turn upon the bed and enter into poverty. I mean, it sounds terrible. So your brain says, that's lazy, that's bad, keep working.

Mm-hmm. Okay? And then you feel better. All of us are in the world to feel good about ourselves, and everything we do and think contributes to it. And so we all have this to a small degree, but with you, I'm measuring it. I've got your numbers right here, inattentive to the inner self, demanding on the self and critical of the self.

Therefore, now you understand, you have a clear understanding as far as how your choices are impacting you and how you value who you are. And so when it comes to valuing who you are, really who you are just is naked in front of the mirror, who you are. who you are, you're like, well, it's okay, but we got work to do. Yeah. There's some people, they can look in front of the mirror, fat, and look at that and say, you are freaking hot. They got that kind of esteem going on. Huh.

And so low self-esteem isn't bad. Am I more of a realist then? Because I mean... You are a realist. Okay. You are definitely a realist. So that contributes to your ability. to see this as just being honest with yourself.

Right. Okay. Is that what you're being? Yes, you are. Yeah. And so the fact of the matter is, though, you've got, you know, you scored high on all this. You've got high scores. What does that mean?

It means you got a great profile. Okay. So I mean, so overall you have a great profile. I'm breaking the pieces down. People with low self-esteem to a degree that sounds terrible. But what does it mean in the world with a graphic? like yours. It means I don't have to ever tell you to work. Well, I mean, I think like the great Jim Collins would say, I realize that I have a high amount of productive paranoia, meaning I

always am working to improve, to learn to get better, to do something bigger and better than I did before and to compare my... You mentioned something interesting, though, Steve, that I'm not competitive, more creative, which really is fascinating. I'd love to... for you to go a little bit deeper there. Just because my whole background in life was from a competitive standpoint playing sports, having to compete to earn the starting quarterback job. Once doing that,

then competing against the other teams, you're playing with leading others, trying to win games. There's a very visible scoreboard playing on national TV, all this stuff, right? In college, earning a college scholarship, all these things. And so that is as competitive as

it gets. So to say that I'm not competitive but more creative, I'd love to understand that better. Okay. It looks competitive. It looks competitive. We call it, you know, Ryan's competing. But are you a competitive person? No, Ben Greenfield's not a competitive person. I told him that. He's a creative. He's a sculptor. He's sculpting. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, he wants to win all that. Yeah. It comes back to low self-esteem. It's more that than it's being competitive. Competitive people, the real competitives, are more leaning towards narcissism. They want to win because they love winning. You want to win because you hate losing.

So true. That's not competitive. I've got to show this so the people won't think I'm a loser. Well, I think like you talk to a lot of people, you know, I'm not making comparisons to some of the greats, but just using names. Like Michael Jordan remembers vividly the shots that he's missed more so than the ones that made. I personally remember some of the worst interceptions I've ever thrown and remember those so much better and more clearer than the games where I scored a ton of touchdowns and we won. Some of the most competitive people, Ryan, are not competitors. They're competing against themselves. They're trying to be what they think they should be because they're not content with what they are. That's that is it plainly.

I can't get any plainer. When you said creative though, you said not your not competitive, you're not competitive, you're creative, like define creative. Okay. Creative means you think outside of the box and your ideas tend to run in an unorthodox way. Okay. In other words, you're you're somewhat of an alternative thinker. So you will likely do something.

in a very interesting way rather than doing it in the way everybody would expect. Gotcha. You will choose interesting over typical. Yep. Because this is why I said you're a teacher. Now, teaching may not be what you do, but it is what you are. So if you decided to take up teaching, you'd likely be a good one. Okay.

Because your brain is oriented towards that. In a way that kind of happens on this podcast. I think from time to time. Sure. And by the way, before I forget, you got a great voice. Thank you. You have a great voice. And that's really a powerful thing to have.

That'll actually get you places. Thank you. As it has. I appreciate that. People may not tie it to your voice, but it's definitely part of it. I mean, there's nothing I can do about that, though. I mean, that's just luck, I guess. It is what it is.

That's right. Right. You have a very positive view of where you're going. Your future is clear and complete. You will arrive. That I know. I also understand that you know your role very well. You have a strong, attentive social role image.

You know who you are. You know what you're supposed to be doing, and you can do it with all your might. That's super powerful. Super powerful to have. Interesting. When you look at rules, you make a determination of whether or whether or not the rule is worthy of you to obey it. True. So now, look at what keep, look at, let's keep building on these things.

So let's take your low self-esteem that I think has maybe discouraged your brain a little bit. But it makes you a strong starter, a strong competitor. I just feel like I have to say, I just don't know if that's the right. I know. Right. Those are the right words. I know. Like, you know what I know.

I don't know what I'm not trying to be defensive about it. I know it sounds like I'm defensive. I mean, I'm even like questioning my own mind. Why are you being defensive about it? this. But it just doesn't feel like the right phrase to me, see you. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Let me tell you something. There is two worlds. There's an outer world and an inner world. Okay. The outer world and inner world have three categories. Intrinsic, extrinsic, systemic. Okay. Okay. The outer world intrinsic piece is about value and uniqueness. So intrinsic outer world is

called empathy. How do I see other people and how do I value and see their uniqueness? So people that see, if you went to the dog pound and you went to get a puppy for the family and you're looking around this 20 different breeds there, then there's this little run over in the corner, yelping, rolling on its back, all by itself playing. And you saw that, you said, oh my God, that's my puppy right there. You would be an empathetic style because you saw value and uniqueness in something different and it stood out and called your name. That's an empathetic person. Okay.

Inner world. So that's the outer world around you. That's one of the three pieces of the world around you. What about in you? The intrinsic world in you is how you value and see the uniqueness in the self. That's called self esteem. How do you esteem the self? We know how you esteem the puppy.

How do you esteem the self? So when you esteem the self, you're like, you could do better. Gotcha. Okay. So you're low because you keep trying to get it higher. Okay. I think that the general definition of this is just out there like other things is wrong.

You're right. Okay. So low self-esteem sounds like you pitiful person. In a way then, I would believe. That's not what it is. So, so. There's nothing wrong with it. No, no, no.

Yeah. I got to believe that some of the greatest learners out there have to, to have that similar mindset. Yes, some of the best competitors are competing well because they're increasing the self because it's too low. Gotcha. Okay. Okay.

I don't want to be on that too much. I know there's other parts of this. It's beautiful. Yeah. So, yeah. So you got a powerful profile here. So what it comes down to, you know, for your style, you're intuitive. You see your gut feelings are going to be very reliable, solving problems, complex problems.

You're going to do it in creative ways. So you're a creative problem solver. Okay. You're persistent. You never give up. You'll keep going no matter what happens because you're a dominant. Your insight into other people is good because you have a high empathy score. Now, do you notice something interesting about that?

You have a high empathy score, but you're emotionally distant from people and know they have a downside. But you still care. This is why you get confused because you don't know what I know. You know some. and then you attribute it to everything you've heard in the world, which likely isn't really correct. So you can have empathy, but be distant, waiting for the left shoe to drop, in a sense. So your attitude towards other people, you have a genuine concern and have an interest in other people. doesn't mean you're not emotionally distant.

You're just being cautious. Okay. Okay. So if you got to, you know, we got to break these things all down and explain this is what this means. This is why this is how it works with this. And, you know, if we did this 90-minute debrief with you and got through this, and I do this with CEOs all over the world and with management and leaders. And I was working with a company for four years.

I profiled over 300 people in this company in Denver. Okay, they just sold for $600 million. Wow. And the CEO, the guy that started the company, is like, dude, you had a hand in this by helping me create this culture. I hope they gave you a piece of that. Well, they paid for everything I did. Nice, okay. So, I mean, so, you know, I've got another guy I'm working with, and we were looking at hiring and very, very, very critical hire.

And I said, this is your person. and I was on the phone with him last night and he said this is already proven to be a multi-million dollar win. Multi-million dollar win and he said I won't be surprised if it translates into 100 million in five years. So now we're talking equity because of a decision that I took my brain insights into and said, here's what's going on deep inside this individual. If you want them doing this, this is what you're going to. get. Nothing they would have seen or saw. So, you know, these things, you know, low self-esteem,

dude, I would hire you in a minute with this profile. To do what? To basically, well, I'm saying that broadly because, I mean, I don't need you for because of your style, let's say, because of the way my company runs and is set up. But just if I needed a person who was going to prioritize their critical thinking strength into having insight into people being persistent, being intuitive, creative, smart, and getting things done, you're the guy. You're the guy. You would be an asset to anybody who needs a strong leader.

Okay. So that's clear. And on top of all that, Your self-esteem levels are low, which is what make you so great. How common is the, if you look at my analysis in comparison to the thousands of the other ones you've done, I don't know how you make these comparisons, but how common is this? You? Yes. 2%.

who's in the 98? I mean, you know. Well, it's interesting. This I did a post on Facebook and get my butt whipped because all these theoretical people came on here. Learn math and all this crap. I can't stand that. But I didn't explain enough what I was doing because I was in a hurry. So there's about 37 different graphs you could probably get on a profile as a general rule with the public.

37. Okay. Almost half the public is just two of those graphs. And what are they? Those graphs are relator graphs, which are more heart and mouth, you know, relationship people. And the others are thinkers. They're like engineer styles. Okay.

So if people go on my website and take my free test, I have a free test, I'll tell you about that in a minute. But I have this free test that go on there. Like we only put a lot of work into a couple of the graphs for information because those are the ones that are likely going to come up and guess what, we're right. Interesting. There's two graphs we get usually, and then the rest we get in different, you know, different percentages. Your graphs likely are going to come in around, you know, 2% of the time on your adapted

style because it's core. It's a core style. In other words, you only have one emotion in play. Yeah, I got sure. Okay, so that's about 2% of the population. So, you know, it only takes 3% of the population to really turn the culture as long as they're in positions of power. So government, media, education, business, top level dynamics and all those things, that's

3% of the population right there. And then depending upon where they all lean will go the whole culture. Okay. This has been so enlightening, Steve. I really appreciate the fact that you're willing to do it for me because I've learned a lot, more, maybe more so about myself than I have up to this point. And I like that we could, that you could even tease out some of the parts that I did not understand prior to, uh, to us talking. So it really is impactful. I'm going to really think about this a lot and go over the transcript of this

conversation, listen to it multiple times. So thank you so much for that. Where, so for the people who listen to this and maybe they really liked it and they want to do it for themselves, how would, how can we help people out with this. Okay. So to make it simple, we have a link that you could go to free BRG. FreeBRG. FreeBRG.com. And it'll go right to a test. And that particular test will take about 10 to 15, 10 minutes. Let's say 10 minutes, tops, 15 maybe. And you'll get a partial analysis. It's free. You'll get a little bit about yourself to get you kind of started. If you want to go deep or whatever, then we have, you can upgrade.

Yeah. How can. For the people who want to do what I did and take multiple tests that you have to invest some time. And really, I sat and thought a lot about my answer, Steve. I wanted this to be as real as possible and live so that people could sense me, hopefully just being as open and honest as I possibly could. And I think we did that. So if they want to do that, what are we looking at from?

a cost perspective, how do people go and do that? I'm already thinking of a number of individuals I've spoken with who would want to do this. Yeah. So now we have a lot going on over here. So we have other analysts. And so getting me is kind of premium. Well, thank you. Yeah, I know.

And so, but it's generally around $500. Okay. to do what you did and then get the 90 minutes. And so if you want to do partial, not the free one, but another partial down, just two assessments, not three, you're going to get a lot. You're going to get a lot. That's around 300. And you get an hour with an analyst. Who's going to be able to read your mail?

No problem. And so people, you know, sometimes fly me out to their house. Really? I do with your family. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And it's crazy.

And it can be, you know, amazing because it's a deep, deep dive into your brain, how you're wired, how this world works for you, what you see. So now we know where to put all your eggs in this basket. Stay away from that one. Gotcha. And you'll succeed. This is awesome, man. Thank you so much, Steve. All of this will be linked up at learningleader.com and the show notes as well for Steve.

And then you mentioned freebrg.com. Again, I'll link that up. So if everyone's got a learning later, you can link through to that. Is there anywhere else or any other message you have for my audience before we take off, Steve? Yeah. Well, I would like to mention the four people types and what drives them. If you don't want to go through profiles, whatever, you could probably discover yourself in the pages of that book and say, oh, my God, that sounds a lot like me. Now you've got a whole chapter on it.

So that's really great. And it talks about parenting types, raising children, how different children need to be disciplined in different ways based upon their temperament. Powerful. Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you again, Steve. So much, I really appreciate it. And I can promise you I'll be reaching out to you as we both progress on our journeys because this has been very helpful. Well, I really appreciate the opportunity.

And for you having me on, it's been really great. Thanks. All right. Thanks, Steve. Yep. Bye. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you.

You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.