The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 158: Amy Jo Martin - How To Build Engagement, Trust, & Serotonin

Episode Date: September 11, 2016

Episode 158: Amy Jo Martin - How To Build Engagement, Trust, & Serotonin Amy Jo Martin, author of New York Times best-seller Renegades Write the Rules, founded Digital Royalty in 2009 to help corporations, celebrities and sports entities humanize their brands online through social communication channels. Amy Jo has worked closely with world-renowned brands such as Hilton Worldwide, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and Shaquille O'Neal to successfully humanize their presence. Her motto: humans connect with humans, not logos. Amy Jo herself has a social media following of more than a 1.1 million people and was named the third most powerful woman on Twitter by Forbes. Amy Jo believes the future of technology is the future of humanity. She conducts clinical research studies and travels the world to speak about this topic and many other topics. She recently spoke an audience of 10,000 people. In 2012 Tony Hsieh, CEO of Zappos.com, and Baron Davis, NBA player, invested in Amy Jo and her company. After a successful seven-year run as the Founder & CEO of Digital Royalty and growing the business globally into ten different countries, Amy Jo recently exited the company. As a young female building her career in male-centric industries, Amy Jo has developed a passion for helping women thrive in business leadership. She is currently spending her time researching the relationship between technology and humanity. She is also investing in other female entrepreneurs so they can reach their full potential. Amy Jo is also a contributor to news outlets including the Harvard Business Review and Sports Business Journal. She has been featured in top-tier media outlets including Vanity Fair, TIME, Forbes, The New York Times, Fast Company, ESPN SportsCenter, USA Today, MSNBC and Newsweek. Client portfolio includes: Hilton Worldwide, Shaquille O'Neal, Motorola, FOX Sports, The X-Factor, Chicago White Sox, UFC and Dana White, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, Los Angeles Kings, Jabbawockeeez, Doubletree by Hilton, Tony Hsieh CEO of Zappos.com, Monte Carlo Resort & Casino, KC Royals and Hard Rock Hotel & Casino. Episode 158: Amy Jo Martin - How To Build Engagement, Trust, & Serotonin Subscribe on iTunes  or Stitcher Radio The Learning Leader Show "Don't focus on the number of followers... Focus on the connection you are making with your followers." In This Episode, You Will Learn: Having an innate curiosity and learning from failure will lead to sustained excellence How Tony Hseih and "The Rock" have helped Amy Jo learn about leadership The art of asking questions -- The Tony Hseih approach Creating an online business -- How she did it and how to grow it Not focusing on the number of followers, but the manner in which Amy Jo engages with them Listening more than talking How to figure out your value The power of a positive outlook How to boost serotonin (it's contagious) The importance of mindfulness "The unfollow exercise" How she built her large Twitter following -- engagement Why she wanted to start her own podcast "Why Not Now?" Definition of her success? Identifying your purpose, passion, and skill A series of experiments including living on a boat "Serotonin is contagious" Continue Learning: READ her book: Renegades Write The Rules See why over 1.15 million people follow Amy Jo on Twitter: @AmyJoMartin To Follow Me on Twitter: @RyanHawk12 You may also like these episodes: Episode 078: Kat Cole – From Hooters Waitress To President of Cinnabon Episode 071: Nate Boyer - Green Beret, Texas Football, The NFL Episode 047: David Marquet - "Turn The Ship Around" Episode 107: Simon Sinek – Leadership: It Starts With Why Did you enjoy the podcast? If you enjoyed hearing Amy Jo Martin on the show, please don't hesitate to send me a note on Twitter or email me. Episode edited by the great J Scott Donnell The Learning Leader Show is supported by Daor Design - Daor Design will help you build your brand like nobody's business. Most of their work falls into one of four categories: Logo Design, Print Design, Web Design or Digital Marketing. They pride themselves in being a trusted, valued resource for their growing family of clients.

My first advice would be don't focus on your following numbers. It's not about the amount of followers. It's really truly about the connection you have with the people that are following you. And if that connection is strong, you will guaranteed attract more people. That's the best way to grow. And caring, you have to legitimately care about the people that are following you. And it's actually important. It sounds silly.

But that comes across and you can't fake that. And so if that is there, then once again, you will start attracting other like-minded people. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Haw. And welcome to the Learning Leader Show.

I am Ryan Hawk, absolutely thrilled with tonight's featured leader. It's with Amy Jo Martin. Amy Jo is the author of New York Times bestseller Renegades Write the Rules. She also founded Digital Royalty in 2009. Amy Jo has worked closely with world-renowned brands such as Hilton Worldwide, Dwayne, Dwayne the Rock Johnson, and Shaquille O'Neill to successfully huge. humanize their presence. Her motto is humans connect with humans, not logos. A few of the topics we got into during this interesting conversation. Why leaders need to show their skin,

meaning they need to let people see who they are specifically in order to build trust and to be relatable. Amy Jo helps them do that. And then the specifics to how we all can grow our audiences by focusing on connection, caring, and listening. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's Amy Jo Martin. Amy Jo, so excited to have you here on The Learning Leader Show. In fact, I know you are the first featured leader that I've had on that is actually doing this podcast on a boat. So first, welcome to the show. Thank you, Ryan.

I'm excited to be here. Awesome. I'm excited too. And I got a quick question. and that's around common characteristics of leaders who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time. You've worked with a number of these types of people. You certainly are one as well. What are some of those common characteristics you've found in leaders and other people who have sustained excellence?

The number one characteristic would be curiosity. I've seen most of these individuals have just this. innate curiosity about a lot of things, not just what they are doing for their career, but in general. So constantly learning, learning more from their failures than their successes, fierce bravery because of that, always willing to give back up and also be coachable. And also humility, some very humble souls, as much as it may not appear from the outside in terms of what they've achieved, you know, there's a lot of humility there. Who are the first people that immediately come to mind when you think of sustained excellence?

Those who are curious, brave, and are still yet humble? I think of Tony Shea, the CEO of Zappos. I also think of Dwayne the Rock Johnson as the two top that come to mind. I know you've worked with both of those guys. What do you think it is about them? I know we just mentioned the curiosity and bravery and humble, but are there specific examples or times, and maybe even a story you could think of whether it's Tony Shea or The Rock, as we know him,

that you can think of maybe conversations you had that you could share? Sure, and they're very different individuals in terms of personality, but those characteristics are still, they still stand. I would say, you know, with Tony, he has a way of asking more questions than providing answers. So it's almost this kind of Buddha sense of he has a way of you realizing, you know, what it is that you want to do, what it is that you are going to put as a priority in your life. And I think that that was, there was a specific period of time where I was talking to him about business. and he kept asking, well, why do you want to grow your company? And I kept thinking, that's a silly question.

Doesn't everybody want to grow their company? And he said, no, but the bigger you get, the more employees and this and that, is that really what you want? Because I was also struggling with not having enough personal time in my day, too. And he just starts to ask the questions. And that was a moment in time that I'll never forget. Interesting. How about The Rock?

Oh, the Rock. You know, his background is pretty incredible. If you look at the arc of his story, really starting from nothing. And I'd say the hardest working person I've met, especially in the entertainment industry. And it's just the charisma of being able to connect with people, whether he's on the WWE platform or some, you know, know, Hollywood blockbuster film, he just has this ability to see people and treat people the same regardless if you are assistant on set or the director. It's been pretty incredible to watch that drive, too. I'd love to, Amy, dig in more now to your story because I think for the few

people listening who don't know you, and you're hearing these big names like Tony Shea, like the Rock, other names like Dana White, Shaquille O'Neal. I mean, the list goes on and on, people that you've directly worked with. I'd love for you to share your story and journey to, one, how your career got started and as it's progressed to where you are today. Sure, sure. So I started, and I think this is important to the story, so I'm going to start kind of way back in the original days. I grew up moving around a lot when I was younger. We lived in a mobile home, my family and I. So every time we would go, we'd move to a new city because of my father's job, he worked in construction, we would move.

And that really created a lot of willingness to accept change because I was going to different schools, meeting new people. And I kind of became addicted to change, I think. And later on, as I grew up and had my career and started working in digital and technology, it really has helped because that, that industry is changing on a daily basis, and you really have to be willing to take what you know, but almost throw it out the window, you know, sometimes the next day because it's changed already. And you can't get too comfortable. So I went to college at Arizona State University and then started working for an ad agency, working on a lot of professional sports teams.

They're locally in Phoenix, Arizona. So the Phoenix Coyotes, NHL, Arizona, Arizona Cardinals, NFL. Diamondbacks and eventually then worked for the Phoenix Suns in the NBA. And I started to experiment with social media because it was really, I guess, 2007-ish, where brands, companies, people weren't quite sure what this was. It was before the 2008 election when Obama really embraced Twitter. And I just found it to be fascinating to see how people could connect so much, through this new communication channel.

And then kind of became an advocate for these new ways of communicating because fans really wanted to get close to the athletes on the team. They wanted to get close to the front office. And it was fascinating to see the amount of energy that could be transferred through these communication channels online. None of this was truly tangible, but it was. and started working with Shaquille O'Neal's kind of a funny story. He wanted to learn how to tweet.

So I taught him. Share how you got into the position to where Shaq. I read that read about it, but I want to hear from you how you were even in the position to be with Shaq. Sure. So I did, I received a phone call one day. I was in the front office, of course, in the NBA with the Phoenix Suns. And it was from basketball operations. they were down in the locker room and they said,

hi, can you come down and teach Shaquille how to tweet because he wants to learn? And you are the only one in this building that even knows what that is. What year was this? This was 2008. Okay. And so I did. I went down and there was seven foot Shaquille. Hi, nice to meet you.

And he had his shackberry, his phone at the time. He had not graduated to an iPhone yet. And I taught him, and he was the perfect student. You know, he wanted to experiment, and as much as he is a big personality, there is a person behind that personality, and we were able to really expose who that was. And he and I just started to experiment. We did random acts of shackness, which was a concept I kind of came up with and pitched to him. I said, hey, Shigua, what if you stand on a street corner?

and we tweet your exact whereabouts because he was willing to really connect with fans in that way. And then we'll say the first person to tag you, the first fan, we'll get to get to the game the next night. This was in 2008. And he was up for it. So we would do this and a lot of people would come. And we'd do it consecutively in different cities based on where he was playing. Sometimes the media would show up. At one point with the Celtics, he had hundreds of people and even the authorities, the cops

showed up. And it was just a way to kind of evolve his brand beyond basketball and beyond sports. People from all over the globe were connecting with Shaquille O'Neal, and they didn't necessarily know really who he was prior other than just some basketball players. So he really used this to humanize his brand. Interesting. Then I started my company. Yeah, just kind of fast-boarding here.

Shaquil was my first client, larger than life, literally, and it kind of grew from there. We were fortunate to have a lot of media exposure and attention as to what we were doing with our experiments. And ended up growing the company and working with huge global brands, you know, big, A list celebrities, you name it, and growing a team. I became the leader of this company, and I didn't have the pure intention to from the beginning. I really thought I was just going to consult a little bit on my own and ended up having 30 plus people on my team.

And it was really an amazing learning experience, if you talk about learning leaders. I really, I had to just kind of, you know, really dive in and do what I thought was best in terms of using my intuition, but also surrounding myself with some amazing mentors. And one of the keys, it seems, that you were in early, you saw the potential, specifically, I think, of Twitter and what it could bring to branding both from personal and, uh, personal and, uh, company level. So you start your company and Shaq is your very first customer. So when you say he's the first one, so how are you monetizing this company? What specifically are you charging for and what did you do for your clients? The company was set up very similar to how an agency is set up an ad agency or a marketing company and that's usually revolving around a monthly retainer base. So you know, a client comes in. You set up.

up an annual contract and you have an agreed upon amount that you charge each month. And then incremental of that, you know, if my team and I were to help with an endorsement deal or help with a bigger partnership, there would be commission on that. If we placed ads on their behalf, you know, there's the media cut on that. So that was originally how it was set up. And then we started moving more into education and teaching people how to do what we did to make it a little bit more scalable and productize our value because it was, it became kind of tiring to only be as good as the amount of hours in the day. You know, we could only really charge by our time. And eventually it was Tony Shea who helped me figure out a model that was more scalable and we could

productize our intellectual property a little bit more. How did you do that? We did it by creating an online university, and we shared through videos that you could purchase and curriculum that we developed. We shared the content that really summed up what we had learned over the last four or five years, and this launched in 2012. So we had all these great case studies and amazing lessons. that we could offer to people so they could leapfrog, you know, our mistakes and learn and

accelerate their process of learning. Gotcha. And I was, you know, reading through your book, Renegades, write the rules. And I wanted to go through, because I was questioning your company, Digital Royalty, it looks like it's incredible. And in your book, by the way, for the people who haven't read it, Renegades, write the rules, how the digital royalty use social media to innovate. And a few of the topics really piqued my interest.

And I'd love for you to go over two of the rules right now. And maybe we'll dive back in later too. But two of those initial rules are show some skin and unmask your motives. What do you mean by that? So show some skin in terms of, you know, really allowing people to see who that person is behind the professional, behind the, you know, in a lot of cases with me, it was an athlete or a celebrity or a CEO of a big company. And that's important because you have to be relatable and find a point of connection with your audience. And so that's the show some skin.

The other thing is defining your value. You know, what is it that you have to offer that's valuable. Is it a form of exclusive content, education, humor? That's important. And unmasking your motives, it's just like if you think about building trust in the real world in a relationship face-to-face, you really need to understand what someone wants out of the conversation, out of the relationship, out of the business partnership before you can agree to it or even consider it and dive in. And that trust that's built has to be done online as well. So in terms of a lot of businesses or individuals will hop into social communication, social media, and start asking people to do things, to, you know, listen to them, to come by their product to XYZ.

and I always use the analogy that that's kind of like showing up to a cocktail party and asking a stranger to buy into your timeshare. You need to build that relationship first. Otherwise, you're going to hit a brick wall. So, yeah, that's another thing in terms of unmasking your motives. Now, so you have a lot of experience with people who are famous who already have a pretty well-known name. They're trying to build out their brand from a social media. and digital perspective. How about for the person,

the majority of people listening to this are not famous. Some of them have some fame in whatever, their own right, but it's not at the level of Shaquille O'Neal or Tony Shea or Dana White, The Rock, so to speak. So what advice would you give to them, to those who are potential renegades or people who are listening that, say,

I really want to grow some sort of a brand. I haven't really even begun, but I love some advice from you, Amy Jo. What would you say to them? Well, first off, Ryan, it's a great point, and I do get this question a lot. And to be fair, I grew up in Wyoming. I lived in a trailer park. You know, I am definitely not famous.

And these tools really do make, they offer an equal opportunity, an equal playing field, if you will, because we have access now to people and to things that we never have had before. You have gatekeepers usually, you know, keeping you from talking to, you know, X, Y, Z person that could maybe help you get a job where you want to go or help you bring your product into another spot. So it's important to kind of think about the playing field versus the fame and the influence. My first advice would be don't focus on your following number. It's not about the amount of followers. It's really truly about the connection you have with the people that are following you.

And if that connection is strong, you will guaranteed attract more people. That's the best way to grow. And caring, you have to legitimately care about the people that are following you. And it's actually important. It sounds silly, but that comes across. And you can't fake that. And so if that is there, then once again, you will start attracting other like-minded people and responding and, you know, listening more than talking.

It's very similar to interpersonal skills you would have for face-to-face conversations. Those types of things are translatable for social communication. And, you know, the original. originality aspect being able to really figure out what your value is and differentiate from as much as possible from all the noise. Because there's a lot of negativity too with social media, especially this election season. You know, you see so much anger and hatred. And one way to simply be different is to figure out what your value is and have a more positive outlook. You know, there's a whole philosophy that I have on this about the relationship between technology and serotonin.

And it's true there really is, you know, it's serotonin is contagious. It's spreadable because if you do something nice to me, you get hit a serotonin, but so do I as the recipient. But if anybody witnesses that, they also do too. And with social communication, you have the ability to witness or have a large audience who can, and witness things. And that's very, very powerful. So those are some of my tips. I love it, especially the kind of the positivity around the way you react to situations.

I do find, especially on social media, there's, there can be so much negativity. And I find myself wanting to just block those people and not be around them or even read or listen to what they have to say. There's so many good, positive things. The first thing that comes to my mind is Adam Grant. He's sharing so much, so many positive, great, insightful stories, research, you know, science-backed evidence-based arguments that I'm just, it's a guy that you want to follow. You want to be around and listen to versus a lot of the others who are regularly negative or complaining about things that just, it's such a waste of time and a waste of your brain power to be offended or. to complain about something that truly doesn't even matter most of the time. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. I call it the unfollow exercise. And we all have those moments when we scroll through our feed and on any social media channel. And we cringe when we see certain people or certain things that people are saying. And they either annoy us or they just make us feel negative. Well, why unfollow them? There's nothing wrong with that. You wouldn't allow them into your home.

why would you allow them into your head? Because that really can get into your head quickly and dictate your moods, you know, those negativity type of people. So Adam Grant is a great example. Absolutely love following him too. And the other day I started, well, about a month ago, I started just tweeting out to my audience, hey, I have a couple of minutes.

Is there anything I can help you with? Just to see what would happen. And I've been doing this about once a week for four or five weeks. And I found that as much as the people who actually ask questions and were responding and bantering, which is super fun because it's such a diverse conversation about all things, there's a lot of people that just like and you think, even if someone's witnessing this, hopefully it encourages them to maybe do the same or changes their mood a little bit too. So you have to remember how many people you're impacting when you use these channels. They're powerful. And you've built up over a million followers on Twitter. And as you said, you weren't famous prior to this.

And now there's definitely a level of fame there that you've built up. How have you been, maybe this is a book's worth of information that you'd answer with, but how have you been able to do that? Yeah, I'm thinking about another book. Maybe it's Renegades rewrite the rules. I think, you know, a lot of experimenting and vulnerability, being willing to share value, which and sometimes that's sharing what you wish you would have learned the first time around, you know. And I think also not just really diversifying what I talk about and having the connection be more my personality. me versus a certain subject matter. Because people are people and they, you know, they have lives that are 360. It's not just about sports or just about social media. That will, that will fatigue

people pretty quickly. They want to relate and be human. So I think that that's been, you know, another factor. And this willingness to listen and connect, it's been a pure, you know, you know, experiment more than anything, and it has to keep reinventing. You know, as I find my passion and purpose evolves, and one of my philosophies is that were passion, purpose, and skill collide. True bliss, happiness resides. And that sweet spot is so incredible and sometimes very difficult for people to locate and or create. But not only that, it's changing all the time. You know, my passion for helping big brands and celebrities become even more famous using social communication has evolved into other things now. And it's

not that that isn't great and wonderful, but I feel that, you know, my, there are other things I want to do, which makes my content that I share with my audience change too. So you really want to make sure that connection is with you, not necessarily the topics that you're talking about. out. So I'd like to bring this back. Sometimes I think the best way to workshop this and for people to learn is to actually do it and almost do some like live coaching. And if you wouldn't mind, I know we didn't plan for this.

Would you mind have asked you a few questions around the Learning Leaders Show brand myself and maybe others could get some value out of hearing some of the thoughts you have for me? and then hopefully be able to implement it for themselves. Does that sound good? Yes, I like it. Okay, cool. I should have probably told you before we started, but that's just how it goes. Okay.

That's okay. I like it. Just popped up. So I'm thinking about the Learning Leaders show, also myself, and how it's, what's happened over the last 115 to 125 episodes over the last year. And it's really, I'm delighted and it's remarkable to see when I initially, launched, it was just really a way for me to have a conversation with really my heroes, people who do phenomenal things and help others. I just wanted to directly talk with them, and then I

thought a good thing for me to do would be not only to have those conversations, but to share them. And that's how the podcast was born. And I'm curious, if I, what's happened since then over the course of last year is now I regularly get emails from listeners on a daily basis talking about how they're inspired to think bigger, to dream bigger, and then not only to dream, but to execute. And that's the best possible response I could ever receive, I believe from doing this podcast is hearing that it impacts so many people. And then it's also opened me up to write on great platforms like the Huffington Post and other great platforms, as well as get paid to go and give speeches, which I know is

something you do extremely well, too. If you were coaching me to grow both the Learning Leader Show as well as my own brand in regards to this, what are some of the first things you would tell me as this brand is about going on a year old? What are some of the first tips and ideas you would send my way? So I'm talking practical things I could implement. Okay, sure. one of the ways one of the tactics that I always like is to ask your audience right so you have first of all hat tip to you 115 consecutive podcast is is really truly special because a lot of people

drop so quickly and this is this is really a testament to you and your consistency so you have built an audience now that is is loyal and otherwise you wouldn't still be doing this and really sees the value. So whether it's through email communication or it's through social media or maybe it's a podcast. It's just specific. It's maybe a short one that says, hey, guys, here we are at this kind of crossroads. We're at the threshold of 115 episodes. What can I do to improve this for you?

Here are some of my thoughts or maybe not. Maybe this is through email communication. but you've earned the right to ask that question, and I think people would be more than willing to give you some interesting feedback. It doesn't mean you have to implement the feedback, but I think what you will see is you will see threads of trends. Like, I really like it when you do this type of thing or that type of thing. And even if you're wanting to try a new concept or new kind of format to your show or something,

you could throw that out as a little tester. And there might even be a way to isolate your most loyal fans and just also thank, give this an opportunity to thank them. That could be one, that could be one way. Another thing would be in really getting to know your audience and the content that's resonated most, which I'm sure you know which, of course, which of your shows have been most popular. And we don't do this often, I think, as the hosts or as the author, go back and look. listen to those. I just committed this weekend to rereading my book. I haven't read it since it's then

published. I turned in the manuscript and then I was like, okay, this thing is now going out and it's all in the past. That stuff all happened before. But I need to refresh my memory on what's in there and back to the basics. So it might help you to go back and listen to those and you'll probably hear certain things that you want to recreate or re-implement. As far as social communication goes, this isn't necessarily just for you, but what I typically do if I'm in giving a keynote speech is at some point I tell everyone to get out their phones and Google themselves. And a lot of times these are executives and CEOs and, you know, high-level business individuals. And they're pretty surprised at what they find. And what they, they then learn after the conversation I take them through

is if you are using Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, and all these social networks, you have the ability and power to make those the first things that pop up in search. Because they, the more that you use them and the more active, you will end up being able to, you know, have more power over what pops up. And who doesn't want that? Wouldn't you rather have your own voice versus maybe an article that was written four years ago that maybe doesn't articulate what you really said or did the best? Or maybe it's some other thing. And the other thing I asked them to do is to Google image search themselves. And, you know, it's for individuals like yourself, Ryan, you probably are very much on this topic. You know what's out there and what's coming up.

in your rankings, but a lot of people don't. They don't think about this. And if someone were wanting to, you know, interviewing you for a job or reach out to you for something and you don't have the presence that you feel you should have for a personal brand, you are already at a deficit. So that's another thing I would suggest. I really like it. I think be a good practice for everyone to go and do right when they get done listening to

this podcast. Another interesting event that you have coming up is that you're co-hosting a leadership conference, specifically for young females this summer. I'd love to hear more about that. Absolutely. So, you know, really kind of cutting my teeth and starting my career in professional sports, I was always surrounded by men, and usually they were older, and oftentimes I'd be the only female in the meeting or at the you know, conference or one of the only at the conference that I was attending at the time. And so

I just kind of started to really study the dynamic between women and business and men in business and one of the things that is my mission and what I'm doing to invest in other female entrepreneurs as well as mentor and help other females is really help them with their confidence. And that starts at a very young age. So I have an individual, her name is Alina. She's out of Phoenix, Arizona, and she's 12 years old. She's an entrepreneur herself. I've been working with her for over a year. She has her own company. And she and I are co-hosting a young girls leadership conference. It's called Girls for Progress on June 11th in Phoenix. And it really is to help these young girls learn from each other. We have some amazing speakers coming in. Not only is Elena sharing her story about her company, but also a rocket scientist who's 25 years old. She's coming in. We have a lineup that's just incredible. And these young girls will learn from from each other as well as be able to stay connected after the events. We're also debuting a documentary specifically on this topic for this age group. So

it's going to be exciting and it's just definitely a passion of mine to focus on this area. Alina is 12 years old and has her own company. She is. She has her own LLC. She manages her own PNL. She went out and got funding for a company. It's pretty incredible. What are the ages of the people who are being in attendance?

We have 12 to 17, but also parents are invited to join. And it is a free event for this first one. We've been fortunate to have so much support. Mayor Stanton, the mayor of Phoenix, is behind. behind it. We just had a conversation with him the other day. Alina got to take some time out of school to have a conference call with the mayor. And it's been great. Wow. That's incredible. I love that. My daughters are a little young. I was going to see what age.

But I love it. That is maybe something to do in the future once you guys get it rock and roll and they get a little bit older. Yeah. I mentioned this at the beginning of the talk. but really a couple-part question here. You decided to exit the company that you started that was wildly successful. I was curious as to why. Well, I kind of alluded to the purpose, passion skill, collide, happiness resides philosophy. And I just found that some of my passions were shifting a lot of, I have a lot of interest in studying technology and social communication and the impact it's happening. on our culture as well as helping women in business and helping men understand the power of mentoring

more women. So I just felt I needed that time. Also just speaking and sharing my lessons, you know, as a CEO of a company, it's tough to find that time to really break away that the company is always going to be the priority. So this was an intentional ready set pause. let's, you know, let's really do a gut check and take inventory and focus on even innovating my own life a little bit because I've been so focused on a business. So that's really the gist of it and looking at that definition of success.

What is that? And something different to everyone, but it doesn't always mean having a unicorn startup. And I don't know if you know what that means, but for the audience, that's, you know, the classic Facebook or company that has a billion dollar valuation. Right. And there's so much romanticism around that concept, but we tend to and being surrounded by a lot of entrepreneurial minded friends, you know, it's easy to get caught up and lose track of your own life and your own path in exchange for chasing that unicorn status. So that was my, yeah, what's your definition of success? My definition of success is really being able to identify where that collision is of purpose, passion, and skill. Because then you aren't working.

You're allowing your time to be devoted to something that's what you like to do, what you're good at, what means more than just money to you. that higher objective is baked into there. So it's more about work-life integration than it is separation, work-life separation. And that's something Tony Shea also taught me. And it's when you have that scenario, it's pretty magical because you're able to get more out of both kind of your professional and personal worlds because they're blended so much. And you decided to move to live on a boat.

which I mentioned earlier, and you're currently on that boat in San Diego. Why did you decide that, and how is it? Well, it is wonderful. I decided to do this. In part, I'm kind of running a series of experiments trying to innovate my own life. And one of the objectives was to simplify my life. So when you live on a boat, you don't have a lot of space, and it means really decluttering your physical surroundings.

But what I've noticed is that also really brings clarity to your mind. You have less to worry about, less to think about. So it's made some space in my head. But I'm just a, I really need nature in my life. And being able to look out right now at the calm ocean and water right now is pretty, grounding, ironically. But it's not a for everything. It's definitely an experience and experiment.

But learning how to captain the boat has been an awesome challenge and fun. So it's just, you know, it's also, there's nothing more humbling than nature. And I think that it's a really cool reminder of where, you know, human beings, our role in this world. When you get out there on the ocean and you see the power and kind of the vulnerability that we have here as people who are trying to navigate, there's all types of life metaphors you can only imagine. But yeah, so that's where I am at the moment.

What's the next experiment? The next experiment. Well, there have been a few in tandem. The other one is really trying to decrease the amount of time I spend on my phone and on my computer. And it's not to abandon digital and social media by any means. That's my world and that's, you know, but trying to be more smart about who I'm engaging with, how much time is being spent and why. And that's been really fascinating.

You know, I mentioned that whole the unfollow exercise and digital detox and making sure that we aren't having the tail wag the dog here with our technology. But other than that, you know, I

will see. I don't know what's next. Interesting. I love it. You know, we talked briefly Amy Jo about the learning leader and the brand and I told you why

this whole thing got started and very fortunate to see what's grown from it over the past year. Now, I love for you, though, to define what a learning leader is to you. Sure, a learning leader. The first thing that pops into my head is really a listener. And I think that one of my friends, Simon Cynick and just amazing individual, his books, His second book, Leaders Eat Last, was actually really amazing. And not that his first one wasn't, but I do believe if you watch the TED talk that Simon has done on, why you'll be able to glean a lot from that first one.

And really putting yourself or putting your team in front of you and making them the priority. You know, there's a lot of vulnerability and good leaders too, showing their, their team showing the people that are looking to them for leadership that, once again, they aren't perfect, but they have your back. And I think that there's, you know,

one of the things that Simon really points out is there's a level of security that those types of leaders, or leaders bring, which enables people to work in their best capacity, in their strongest capacity and do their best work, be the best versions of themselves. So that's, you know, like I said, the fierce bravery. I'm willing to get back up and curiosity is big.

Those are a few of the things that pop into mind. Love it. Simon, obviously, is one of my leadership heroes that give one of the first people that was on my list to speak to. And I was a pure joy and a pleasure to have him on this podcast. He was fantastic. He absolutely brought it too. so it's really neat to see that intersection. Amy, thank you so much for being here.

It's you've, I love your story and the interesting way in which you tell it. It's just fantastic. So thank you so much. Where would you send everybody to learn more about you online? Amyjo-Martin.com would be great. And on Twitter, I'm the same. Amy Joe Martin pretty much everywhere. That would be wonderful.

And there's a reason over a million people follow you on Twitter, so people go check it out. I urge you as well as your book. Fantastic one. Renegates write the rules. So I, again, really appreciate Amy, and I know we'll certainly be talking as we both progress on our journeys. Thank you so much for having me on, Ryan. I absolutely love the topic that you're exploring here, and it's so valuable for everyone.

So I look forward to following along and listening in the future, too. Awesome. Thanks so much, Amy. Great. Thanks, friend. Bye-bye. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you.

You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.