The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 169: Amelia Boone - How The Best Obstacle Racer In The World Embraces Pain

Starting point is 00:00:00 So there've been numerous things in these past six months that I've learned that I realize that it's making me a better person. I mean, it's been one athletic disappointment after another for this past year. But personally, I feel like I've grown so many ways that I, you know, tenfold over what I have in the past five years combined. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so

Starting point is 00:01:00 much for being here. This is one of the most impressive and accomplished featured leaders I've ever spoken with. It's Amelia Boone. She's the world's most decorated obstacle racer. A lot of people call her the Michael Jordan of a lost of course racing. Since the sports inception five years ago, she's amassed more than 30 victories, including the three-time winner of the world's toughest muddard of the Spartan race world champion in 2013, the Spartan race points series champion multiple times and many other wins. Oftentimes, not only is she beating all of the women, but she also beats all of the guys during these races. Oh, and by the way, during the week, she is a full-time in-house corporate attorney at Apple.

Starting point is 00:01:42 It's incredible. Few of the topics we got into. Her thought process during a painful race. The ability to suffer and deal with adversity. Amelia describes that in detail. Really interesting. Then how she balances being a full-time in-house attorney at Apple and the best obstacle course racer in the world.

Starting point is 00:02:01 Follow up by how to set up systems and routines in your life to help optimize what you want to do. do. Amelia's incredible. You're going to love this one with Amelia Boone. Amelia Boone is certainly an honor to have you here on the Learning Leader Show. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Of course. I got a question. So you have been able to accomplish some incredible feats over the course of your life, certainly even within the past five years or so. And you've also spent time around others, whether it's training, competing, beating, occasionally seeing others win, but not very much when they're racing against you. I'm curious, from your perspective,

Starting point is 00:02:58 if you had to deconstruct some of the common themes amongst the best of the best and obstacle course racing, so maybe a few of the qualities that you've found that they have, what are some of the features that everyone seems to share? Yeah, you know, I think that deep down, from what I've noticed, especially very high level athletes in general, is that there is this innate drive. And what I've noticed is that people that tend to do well, that tend to be athletes and at the top their game for a long time tend to be the ones that have always been self-motivated, that nobody else has really put. them to that. They weren't like thrown into something because like that was a thing to do and had hovering parents and said like you have to play X, Y and C sport.

Starting point is 00:03:53 I really think that it's this constant like self drive and self internal motivation to be able to be able to compete for the long term. Because I think at the end of the day, you have to do it for yourself and you've never, you can't do it for other people. And so I think that athletes that flame out early on. tend to be those that, you know, are doing it for reasons other than themselves. Do you think that self-inate drive and motivation, that's certainly qualities that you have and some others that you've witnessed, do you think that can be learned or somehow built upon

Starting point is 00:04:36 with people as they mature? Yeah, this is something that I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about because I get that question a lot. And I think that, I think it's definitely possible. I think it has, I think everyone has it in them. I just think that you have to find something that cues that in you. You know, you have to find, if for some reason you're not feeling driven or you're lacking motivation, maybe you're doing the wrong things or maybe you just don't care. And so I think that when you find that passion or find something that you're really interested in, then that's when all of a sudden you can like cue into that. And I also think that it like, like many other things in life, that you can

Starting point is 00:05:23 cultivate that drive by making it a habit and kind of faking it until you make it, for instance, is that you set a habit. I'm a big believer in setting routines and in setting and setting schedules. and you just do it automatically every single day. It's like brushing your teeth. And then eventually, like, it becomes kind of innate. What are some of your routines or schedules that you said? Actually, before I say that, for the people who are listening who don't, who do not know who you are, Amelia, I can share some of your resume,

Starting point is 00:05:59 at least from the obstacle course racing. And I'd love for you to expand on that. But the three-time winner of the world's toughest mutter, Spartan Race World Champion, Spartan Race Point Series champion, three-time death race finisher. You've beaten you're essentially the Michael Jordan of obstacle

Starting point is 00:06:17 course racing. You've beaten not only all the women, but a lot of times you beat all the guys. Basically, I'm speaking with the best obstacle course racer in the world, but this is actually what you do from a part-time basis. So please share the maybe

Starting point is 00:06:34 whatever I missed in the Amelia Boone story. Yeah, I guess I kind of, it's, I have this dual life as I like to think of it. But I came into athletics. I came in off of course racing. It's a new sport later on in life. So I actually am a full-time attorney and I have been, I was at a firm for six years. And then I recently am now, I'm in-house at Apple. But I, you know, I went to college.

Starting point is 00:07:07 I went to law school. I graduated. I started my career. And then I decided to go out and run this race one day, this tough matter one day with some co-workers about five, six years ago and fell in love and never set out to make a career out of it or a second career out of it. But it just, I found myself getting deeper and deeper into it. and loving it more and more and just kind of took on a life of its own.

Starting point is 00:07:41 It's, and then you've had just so much success, over 30 victories, 50 podiums. I mean, I could go on and on. But I think that when I found out that this wasn't your full-time job, it just blew me away. Not only that is it not your full-time job, but your full-time job is you worked at previously one of the most prestigious law firms in the country and then decided to leave there to go work for a small little old company called Apple, which is where you are now. No one's ever heard of it. No, you know.

Starting point is 00:08:09 And so you go from like the best of the best from a day job perspective. The natural question that you're asked, I'm certain all the time, but I have to ask it is how in the world do you do this? How are you the best obstacle course racer in the world slash, you know, full-blown, big time, big shot attorney at one of the most, maybe the most successful company in the world. I think a lot of it, to me, is about prioritizing and about seeing where in your life, like eliminating things that are extraneous and really focusing in on the things that matter. And so there's a lot of noise out there. And I talk to a lot of people and they're like,

Starting point is 00:08:55 I don't know how you have the time. And to be honest, I actually never really feel pressed for time. And maybe that's because I love what I do and it doesn't feel like a chore. But I think that if you really sit down and you think about like how many hours are in a day, how many days are in a week, there's plenty of time for everything. And you like look at, you look at, you know, how much time you spend wasting commuting or how much time you spend wasting, you know, fencing around on Netflix, finding something to watch. So for me, it's all about prioritizing. And, you look at, you know, and setting my life up in a manner. So I'm eliminating the unnecessary time wasters.

Starting point is 00:09:40 So I can actually go and do what I love. So for instance, I make my commute as short as possible. I live very, very close to where I work because otherwise I would spend two hours a day commuting. That's two hours of training that I could be doing. So I think it's really sitting down and looking at those aspects in life. And I'm not going to sit here and be like, everyone can do it. And there's no issues. I mean, I'm, I obviously, you know, do you make sacrifices along the way? And to be the best that's something you're, there are going to be other areas in your life that certainly that certainly suffer from time to time. And so, you know, whether it be friendships or relationships or, you know, things that kind of fall by the wayside. But I also think that there's this natural cycle in life or those. come in come and go um and so there's times where you're going to have to sacrifice other things

Starting point is 00:10:37 uh to focus but then you know you take a step back and then those come back into your life so you talked about routines and schedules that you've put in place what what is your what does it look like for a typical day for for you yeah so i'm a morning person i have always been a morning person. And so I get up really early. I'm normally up, you know, before 5 a.m., generally somewhere in the early 4 a.m. and then I am out the door in training. I've learned that if you put off training until the end of the day, there's a much higher probability that it's never going to happen or that, you know, that's the time later in the evening where my other job, where as an attorney, I may actually, you know, like people will be looking for me or I have things to do then.

Starting point is 00:11:31 So I, every day, it's like clockwork to me. If I don't get out the door and train, like I've, nothing feels right. So that's my, so I'm up, I'm out the door doing, doing whatever it is that day. and then I'm in my office by 7.30, 8 a.m. there until, you know, whenever the day ends, then sometimes depending on my training cycle and then out again, training in the evening, go to bed and do it all over again. What are the people at Apple think of what you do in your free time? You know, they are very supportive and actually very curious.

Starting point is 00:12:19 And I found this in every, in my previous job at a firm is that everyone really wants to know. And I've had coworkers come out and race and really get into it. And so people are very supportive. But at the same time, you know, it's not, it's at the end of the day, I'm treated like any other employee here, and I'm an attorney. And so it's sometimes nice to not talk about all of the racing and to have these dual lives that I can set aside the racing life and go be in an attorney and be in my own little world there. How do they relate, though? I mean, I think I'm curious, do you feel like you've become a better attorney based?

Starting point is 00:13:11 on the discipline, the work, the schedule, I think the tough moments you've had to go through as a racer. How has that impacted you as in your day? I can just speak personally knowing that doing this podcast, talking with 100, whatever, 60, 70 plus of the best leaders in the world has impacted me by, I can't even quantify it, but an immense amount having these conversations. So I'm curious how the racing has had that impact on you as an attorney. I find that I generally function better. The more like balls I have in the air in terms of I'm more efficient when I'm juggling a number of things and when I have a lot going on. So I actually find that having these multiple things going on in my life, folk really forces me to concentrate at the task at hand. And I think that that translate as well.

Starting point is 00:14:12 So when I'm training, I'm focusing on training. When I'm working as an attorney, I'm focusing on that. And so it's the same kind of drive that you apply to one that then translates to the other. And I think for me, it also requires me to be adaptable and flexible. One of the things with racing, with obstacle course racing is that there are things that are going to go wrong out there on the course. they always do. You're going to miss an obstacle. You're going to cramp. You're going to, you know, longer the race gets, the more is up in the air with things just flying out of control. And so it's focusing on those, on those moments and adapting to those that makes you very successful

Starting point is 00:14:59 as an athlete, which is the same thing as in your daily life in anyone's world as a professional is that there are going to be challenges that come up in work, and you have to be able to adapt to those and be flexible and to think on your feet. So even though it doesn't really seem like a nice fit when you think, hey, running through the mud and then being an attorney, I find that it's very similar in a lot of ways. I think, like I mentioned before, there's a lot of carryover when it comes to what it takes to be successful

Starting point is 00:15:33 to anything that you're going to do. You know what I mean? So whether it's the workout, ethic, the drive, the ability to handle adversity, the attention to detail, being disciplined about your work, those things seem to apply across whatever it is that you're going to do. Another aspect of you that I found interesting as I was preparing for our time together, Amelia was one of your, I believe was a friend from college said that you're basically the most competitive person on the planet that you would compete at folding laundry if it meant

Starting point is 00:16:03 that there was a way to compete in that. And so I was curious where this competitive drive, because I've also heard or read that your parents did not really push you or force that on you either. And maybe they weren't as competitive. So where did this come from? Good question. It's one of those things that I remember from a very young age and that I always wanted to be the best version of myself and to compete with myself. And I actually found competition so fun that it was.

Starting point is 00:16:34 a game. And so to make myself interested in something, I would make it a competition. So for instance, when I lived in Chicago, I walked to work every day. So I lived about two miles from my work. And I was in downtown Chicago. And it's a massive grid with tons of stoplights and, you know, lots of traffic. So I would leave my door and then walk to work and I would play a game. to see how quickly I could get to work based on judging the stoplights. And so you would see one, so you're creating a route in your mind. So I was taking something as simple and as mind-numbingly dull as a commute to work and somehow making it a competition with myself.

Starting point is 00:17:24 And I loved it. So for me, having that competition has really helped me engage and have fun with things. So I think that that's always been a necessary part of my life, for sure. Do you find yourself competing more with yourself or with other people? Yeah. See, that's, and that's also what I was going to say is that I don't get it. Winning is great, for sure. I do not mind not, I do not mind losing as long as I didn't beat myself.

Starting point is 00:18:01 So my big thing is I always compete with myself. I don't compete against other people, even though it may look like it on paper. As long as I went out there and did my best and it was somebody else's day, there are days when you just get beat. And there's nothing wrong with that to me as long as I didn't sabotage myself. And so I think that that's what's the thing is that's what keeps people can keep you happy and sane as an athlete. this is something that I've actually struggled with over the past five years is figuring out that balance between fun competition and is this a second career? Is this a hobby? That I realize that as long as I'm competing with myself and not against others, I'm happy. It's the moment that

Starting point is 00:18:54 I start to compare myself to others and think that I have to beat X, Y, and Z that it starts to become a chore. So how do the others on the, maybe the premier racers, what type of relationship do you have with them? It feels to me, and this could be also partly because I've only been doing research on you and not other racers,

Starting point is 00:19:17 but how do they react to you being, what appears to me at least, the face of the sport. Sometimes that could be a polarizing place to be in. What is your relationship like with the other premier racers? One of the things that got me into obstacle race and kept me there was definitely the supportiveness of the community. And it's always been that community aspect. And they've been my friends from day one. So even though you're competing against other people, I think at the end of

Starting point is 00:19:54 the day, we're all great friends. And I'm not going to say like, you know, I call them up every day or like we're best pals but everyone is really supportive of each other and so I would I think that is a great relationship I don't know what they would say about me no um well I saw a quote from Ty Ann Clark I don't know her yeah I mean I know you do who has won five Spartan races and she said I think speaking about you Amelia I think she's an animal she's totally the target quote which is right you know and so I mean Is it like just a healthy competitive friendship banter that you guys have? Yeah, there's always, you know, on the course, you obviously, you want to beat your competition.

Starting point is 00:20:40 But afterwards, there's just really nothing but respect in my mind. And I've realized that as soon as I let go and realize that, no, I mean, there's definitely a healthy competition. but I above all want to cheer for everyone to always to be their biggest support as well. So it's an interesting type of relationship for sure. But I think that I've struggled in the past with feeling like I do have a target on my back or that people are out to get me or that as everyone says, it's really hard to get to the top. it's definitely harder to stay there. And so everyone's gunning for you.

Starting point is 00:21:29 But at the same time, you never want to see somebody go down or lose or things like that. So it's a healthy relationship. Another aspect of what you're dealing with right now is an injury that has knocked you out of racing. And I know it's really tough when it's had a big impact on you. What I guess is it a broad question? but how have you dealt with with not being able to do which you love since I believe was April here of 2016 when you when you hurt your leg? What's what's the process been from an identity perspective?

Starting point is 00:22:09 I know how hard that can be as a former athlete. I'm curious how are you dealing with it? Yeah, I would be lying if I didn't say that it was very tough. But I firmly believe that everyone told me, I got injured that, you know, when I found out that fractured my femur, it was going to be a long time. They take forever to heal. Everyone sat there and told me, oh, there's a silver lining. You'll come back stronger. And I promise there's a reason for everything. And I really just wanted to slap everybody upside the head for that because you're sitting there and you're like,

Starting point is 00:22:43 oh, God, no, there's no silver lining in this. And I look at it now six, six, seven months later. and I see that yes, there is because for so long I've been successful in this sport. And it's very easy to ride that wave. When you're on the top, when you're performing well, when you're winning, that's easy. And when things in life are easy, it doesn't force you to change. It doesn't challenge you and it doesn't force you to grow. It's when everything falls apart where you learn. you learn about yourself and you're actually forced to take a step back and to reevaluate

Starting point is 00:23:27 and to reevaluate your relationship with, for me, with racing and with the community and to understand really where it is in my life and what it provides me. And so there have been numerous things in these past six months that I've learned that I realize that it's making me a better person. I mean, it's been one athletic disappointment after another for this past year. But personally, I feel like I've grown so many ways that I, you know, tenfold over what I have in the past five years combined. What do you mean? How are you grown?

Starting point is 00:24:04 Like, what's a specific example? Well, for instance, I've learned that it's really hard, I think. It had been really hard for me, for instance, in sitting on the side. lines and being that person that's like, oh, God, I want to be out there and I want to do that. And blah, blah. If I was out there, I would be winning and I would get into that mind frame. And then I realized that I can take part in the joy and the success of others. And that seeing, being there and being able to help people and being able to, for instance,

Starting point is 00:24:45 I went and I, I crewed for my friend, Devin, who ran Western States, which is, hundred mile like the Super Bowl of Ultramarathons. And for the first time I think I really experienced, I had so much joy for her success. And I was sitting there crying when she came across the finish line because I was so happy for somebody else and experiencing and sharing in somebody else's joy. And I think that nowadays we have such this internal focus like me, me, me, what is it? that I am doing. And if I'm not the one out there kicking ass and winning,

Starting point is 00:25:26 then, you know, it's, I want to sit on the couch and, and, you know, put my head in the sand and hide. But it's so much more fulfilling and there's so much happiness if you go out there and it can be hard, you know, to be on the sidelines. But then just to enjoy what somebody else is, accomplishing. So that's been a big lesson for me. Really interesting. How do you think that mindset and that that ability to experience joy at the success of others, of friends, will impact you once you're back on the course racing?

Starting point is 00:26:10 I definitely think it will help normalize my, as that sounds weird, normalize my relationship with racing. But I was getting caught up in a cycle, definitely for sure, at points in during my racing, where I had this constant fear of what happens when I don't win anymore or what happens or am I going to be miserable if I'm, if I all of a sudden don't podium at a race. And there was so much inward focus on me, me, me, me, that I realized that at the end of the day, people don't necessarily care about the winning or about how many accolades that you can list. What they care about is how you treat other people and how you treat other people in your community and your sport. I mean, this is, I'm obviously talking about racing right now, but it's

Starting point is 00:27:06 applicable to anything in life in any community that you can be the best damn, you know, sandwich maker at Subway, but if you are cruel to people around you, that's what they're going to remember. So I think it's definitely for me realizing that winning and accolades are great as an athlete, but 10, 20 years from now, think about what do you want your legacy to be? And it's always about the interconnectedness and your personal relationships. It's interesting this dynamic, Amelia, what you're learning through the course of this injury, being happy for others. But then you mix that with the fact that it feels to me that we've already discussed the immense amount of competitive drive within you.

Starting point is 00:28:01 So it seems to be almost a counteracting balance here when it comes to you being a racer. And I have to believe part of the reason that you've been able to be so successful. and win so many races and beat everybody, be the best in the world, is the fact that your competitive drive combined with an ability to suffer is better than everybody else's. Because I know you've said that you're not the fastest

Starting point is 00:28:30 or the strongest, but I think it's a combination of your competitiveness and your drive and your ability to take, to withstand pain has led to your success. And then you mix that with what you just said that, you know, it doesn't matter how much you podium or how many, how much you win. And so how you make people feel. I just think it's an interesting dynamic that it feels like, you know, as you're learning through this tough, tough stretch of not being able to race that, I don't know. I'm, it's not really a question there.

Starting point is 00:29:01 It's just kind of a point out to think, to think, what they're contradictory. Yeah, it feels like it a little bit to me, you know? No, I get that. And I understand. And for sure, I think that there's there's that competitive drive and that, that desire to win. But I also think that some of the great things that have led me to be very successful in this sport, the ability to withstand pain, the, you know, the, the ability to suffer have also then, you know, led to, those are the exact things that led to my injury at the time that I have. the time that I have to take off from this because normal people don't run their ways into

Starting point is 00:29:45 breaking their femurs for whatever reason those traits that was it just straight straight overuse yes straight overuse so just you're running too much well yeah I mean it was yeah it was a number of things running mechanics a lot of mileage uh yeah some biomechanical issues but yeah how many miles when you're into your prime training mode like how many miles do you run a week It depends on what I have coming up. At that point, when the injury happened, I was preparing for Western States, which is a hundred-mile or so I was running about 90 miles a week, which was the highest that I had gotten to. So if I'm just doing normal obstacle racing that are not 100 miles long, it's much lower. it's probably like 40 to 50 miles a week.

Starting point is 00:30:41 So complemented then with, you know, other training. Weight training, crossfit type exercises to help with all the obstacles? Yes, exactly. Okay, okay. That's an immense amount of running. So what is your training like now? Are you in the pool? Are you doing other things that's non-weight bearing?

Starting point is 00:31:01 How does it work? Yeah. So the first thing that whenever an athlete gets injured, they're like, okay well what can I do? Yeah. For the same thing. Yeah. And sometimes the answer is rest.

Starting point is 00:31:15 So it's this strange, it's a strange thing where you want to stay active, but you don't, your body needs time to heal. So it's been a lot of pool time for me. I've become a fairly adept swimmer, though it's still not my favorite thing. I have so much respect for swimmers because it's so hard. And, you know, biking, non-weight bearing. And then it's slowly, slowly getting back into impact. And that's the issue is that I was on crutches for over three months in non-weight bearing. So the number of issues that you create from having, from actually from just even being on crutches for that long are things that you have to really be patient and take time to untangle.

Starting point is 00:32:01 And obviously, as athletes, we're really not patient people. So, you know, the comeback is way harder sometimes than just being laid up with injury. Triathlons in your future? People have asked me that. Maybe one day, I think that one of the things that I always like to do for myself is kind of I, a new challenge. And I think that keeps it fresh. and I think that that's actually something that, you know, people should do more in their life is not be afraid to try new things.

Starting point is 00:32:40 So I don't know. I'm going to have to get over my fear of being on bikes for long periods of time. But maybe one day. It's interesting. I took part in a triathlon relay. I did the swimming portion of it recently. And I wanted to ask you this because during the middle that swim, I was trying to, I don't know, create positive thoughts in my mind to not, to hopefully forget that I was in pain. And so you,

Starting point is 00:33:08 obviously, the races you've done are far more painful than a swim portion of a triathlon. But I mean, I was literally trying to be grateful and show gratitude. And this might be weird, but I was just saying, like, I'm so thankful that I have arms. I'm so thankful that I have legs. It's so nice that the sun is out. Like literally trying to say that stroke after stroke after stroke to not feel the pain or how tired I was to get it done quickly as it was a race. It was trying to go fast. I'm curious, when you're in the middle of a brutal race, I've heard you saying too, but I'd love to hear, what is your process for dealing with the suffering, with the pain?

Starting point is 00:33:48 Because I think this could be applicable to all people, regardless of if they race or not. I just wanted your mental process for dealing with adversity. Yeah. I do several things, and it depends, it changes depending on the type of race and at what point it is in the race. First of all, I'm a huge believer in compartmentalizing and breaking things up into small chunks. So when things get overwhelming, when you look at a 24-hour race, for instance, World's Toughest Matter of the race I do every year is 24 hours of obstacles. You're running around in circles for 24 hours. And it can seem very overwhelming. about two hours into something where you're already tired and you're like, crap, I have 22 more hours of this. And that's when people get overwhelmed and they just give up. So for me, I try to break it up in a little chunks and think,

Starting point is 00:34:44 okay, just get through this next five mile laugh or even, you know, just get to this next obstacle. And focusing on that here and now. And then also I really, if I'm really in the pain case, I try and focus externally and on the people around me. So in these long races, you're going to be around a lot of the same people for extended periods of time. So I will try and chat with my competitors and I'll try to chat with the volunteers. You know, obviously you're going hard and you're pushing through, but it's focusing on others around you so you get out of your own head is something that I found has been really helpful

Starting point is 00:35:28 for me. And it's actually one of my favorite parts of the races, is that whenever I'm at aid stations, whenever I'm doing things like that and have a moment to breathe, it's always thinking the volunteers and always, you know, smiling and, you know, cheering on other competitors, like, go get it, buddy. So it's really interesting, both the, the method of breaking it down into chunks and just get to the next obstacle as well as focusing on having conversations with others. How do you think that applies into your life outside of racing when you're dealing with tough moments? Everyone has tough things that happen in their lives. There's certain people who have sales quotas. There's other people who have families and they're trying to pay rent and they got a lot of bills. But how do you think

Starting point is 00:36:14 that applies or you apply it personally when you have adverse situations outside of racing? Yeah. One of the things that I like to ask myself always is whenever everything seems to be crashing down around me or, you know, one, one bad news hit after another is stop and think, okay, what can I fix in this moment? And what can I do right now and what can I address right now? And what are the things that I can't control? If I can't control those, I'm not going to worry about those right now. But in this exact moment, what can I do to make the situation just a little better? And often those are very, very simple, small things.

Starting point is 00:37:03 And then to just to not think then down the road. I have this, I have this situation or this term that I think that people get into and you like head tripping and thinking in the future and thinking about like all the things that could possibly go wrong. And I've always called it future fucking. and I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this, but I'm going to do it anyway. And so I'm like, all right, Amelia, like, don't do that to yourself. Like, don't look down the road and think of all of the parade of horribles that could happen.

Starting point is 00:37:38 Focus on the here and now and the small changes that you could make. Yeah, I think that's great advice. I'm really interesting. I like the thoughtful approach to it too, because especially someone like you who probably plans, right? You plan the whole year out. And your 2016 obviously is not going like you probably planned it in January, I'm guessing. Definitely not. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:04 And so sometimes I could see how that could not be the thing too far in the future and to focus on right now. You know, I got great advice from her from my dad at a very young age. He told me if you focus on being insanely great at what you're doing right now, I promise you that good things will happen to you in the future, whether it's you want a job promotion, you're trying to win a football game in my case. If you focus on being the best at watching film, at lifting weights, at practicing right now,

Starting point is 00:38:37 things will take care of itself on Saturdays on game day. Just like yours, I think that really applies to anything that you're going to do because sometimes it gets so much in our head or we have these five-year plans with boxes to check. And it doesn't necessarily make sense because that's not really the way the world works. You have things happen and it could easily change instantly just like it did for you earlier this year. Right. And what I've learned is that, and obviously this is the title of your podcast, learning leader.

Starting point is 00:39:11 But for me, I've found that people that are very successful and that people that have those leadership qualities have this innate ability to kind of pivot with. they need to. And they're successful. You see these people that are just successful at everything they try and you wonder and you're like, how? Like, how do they do that? And what I'm learning is that, like you said, focusing on the what can I be the best at in this moment. So for instance, this entire year, I was completely stoked on coming back to racing, on doing ultra-marathons, on being the best athlete. Well, that was taken away from me. So at this point and that point in time, like, okay, adjust, adapt. What can you be the best at now?

Starting point is 00:40:01 Well, you can be the best at rehab or you can be the best at, you know, reconnecting to your friends that you've kind of put on the wayside or like, you know, put on the back burner and because of demands that racing would normally take. Or it's this time to to evaluate and see what can I be the best at now or what can I feel? on now, even though I'm unable to do what it is that I really want to do. So I think that that's been a good learning process for me. How to, curious, how do you define what the best is at whatever is that you're doing me without being, without being, it's interesting. I've had some people say you've got to compare yourself to only your previous self and just improvement and growth and learning.

Starting point is 00:40:49 And other people like Jonah Berger, who's a psychologist, say it's, it's, natural to compare yourself to other people. And in some cases, it's healthy because it could drive you a little bit. So when you say, I want to be the best at this or the best at that, and some of those things you mentioned are tough to measure, like the best in rehab, I mean, racing is a little bit easier. Like, if you win, you're technically, you're the best. But how do you define what the best is? And that's, see, so that's actually a question that I've had to think about a lot this year. And actually, even in terms of like, what is success and what is happiness. And I think in those situations you can go over in your head like a million times trying to

Starting point is 00:41:30 figure that out. And to me, I think it's more about the process and about, you know, it's not something, being the best isn't something that's tangible, nor is having success, nor is being happy. Those are very hard metrics to measure because everyone has different definitions. So I think that there's just this this innate feeling that you get whether or not something is fulfilling you and is like filling you up and is bringing you peace. And that to me is in this process and is constantly working at that. And so like I said, I to, to get through things, I make things a competition. And so it's always for me striving to to continually learn and continually like

Starting point is 00:42:25 expand my horizons. Yeah. The only reason I'm asking this question is I just saw another documentary. I mean, there's a movie that you're featured in called Rise of the Sufferfest. Great movie you can get on iTunes. And I want to talk about that. But this other thought popped up. Have you heard of the Barclay Marathons?

Starting point is 00:42:44 I have. What do you think about the Barclay Marathon? So I've actually, I applied last year. There's a very convoluted application process. It's $1.60 to do it, correct? Yeah, exactly. And a license plate from your state. So I didn't get in last year.

Starting point is 00:43:04 And it's still on, it's on my list. Why did you get in? You know, I don't know. But no, nobody really knows how you're selecting. I mean, there's thousands of applications and very, very few spots. And I actually, in a lot of ways, I'm happy I didn't get in because I think I need some more time to really work on my land navigation skills because that's a big part of the race. But that's to me one of those races. People hear the Barclay Marathons and no woman has ever finished it before.

Starting point is 00:43:41 Yeah, I was just going to say. Yeah, I want to describe it real quick for people on. See, if you go on, if you have Netflix, the only reason I know this, I put out a note on my community, on my Facebook group, Learning Leader community on Facebook, and I asked, what are some great documentaries? I love documentaries. And a great member of the group said, you got to watch the Barclay Marathons. And I turned it on.

Starting point is 00:44:03 I just couldn't turn it off. It was like, it just captured me about, and what it is, it's just insane race in Tennessee. And it's hard to, there's no markings on the course. It's basically roughly a 100-mile race. You must finish, I believe, in 60, less than 60, is that right a minute? 60 hours. 60 hours. If you don't, you don't finish.

Starting point is 00:44:22 Which doesn't seem like that fast because most 100-mile races can be done within 24 hours. Yeah. But this is a different kind of race. Yeah, you're run through all the craziest stuff you can imagine in the woods in Tennessee. Not really sure if it is 100 miles or not. Nobody's really quite sure. But watch them. If people who haven't seen it, you've got to watch it on Netflix.

Starting point is 00:44:42 And that's why Amelia, like we had already been talking when I watched it. I'm like, oh my God, you would be the first female to ever finish this race. And it started in 1986, I believe, and it's never been completed by a female within 60 hours.

Starting point is 00:44:55 Right. Yeah. And so, yeah, unbelievable. It's on my list. I have this thing and this is, I'm constantly, I always want to find the next challenge and the next thing.

Starting point is 00:45:11 And I love what I do. in obstacle racing and it's been great. But then I see these things like Barclay and I'm like, I wonder if I could do that. And I'm not afraid to go out there and fail and follow my face. But it's just about that challenge that just lights me up, you know, and gives me motivation and makes me want to, you know, be out there. That looks like the most miserable experience of anybody you could imagine. Oh, and see, I think it looks fantastic.

Starting point is 00:45:45 I know. That's why I'm so fascinated by the way your mind works that you could watch that documentary and say, you know, and I like challenges. Don't get me wrong. But that seems just on another level when it comes to the combination of being in shape. But then all the, they're not even really obstacles. They're just crazy things to run through in the woods. And then also it seems like everybody gets lost easily and you're running in the dark.

Starting point is 00:46:12 And the way that people are able to do it, it was just a really interesting race. And so that's why I was hopeful that maybe I would see you doing it someday and finishing that thing. You know, it's interesting. I want to say that this entire concept of pain. And I think in our society today, people see pain as something to be avoided. And we set ourselves up as in so many ways to avoid pain. And for me, I don't know, because I think,

Starting point is 00:46:42 no, you've talked to Joe DeSena before, who, you know, I've done his death, I've done his death race multiple times how I met Joe. But for me, pain is something we shouldn't be afraid of. And it's there,

Starting point is 00:46:57 and this is totally cliche, but I feel most alive when I'm out in those races, and I'm miserable, and I'm suffering, and everything in my body hurts. And to me, that's feeling alive. And waking up the next morning and not being able to move, you know, your muscles, not being able to walk downstairs, that is the best feeling to me.

Starting point is 00:47:21 Because we have created such a world where we don't have to experience that. And so I think that I'm not alone in seeking that out. And you see, as you probably saw in the documentary and Rise at the Suffer Fest, they explore a lot of that as well. Talked a lot about that and how it's grown to a $500 million industry. Millions and millions of people are doing these races. Not necessarily they're and I think part of that's what was an interesting part of that movie is that to talk about why. Like why people seek out that aspect.

Starting point is 00:47:58 And I think you hit on it is the fact that we've basically created, especially here in America, I know we have listeners all over the world, but in America where we've created these lives to where we can go, a great amount of time without feeling pain if we want. We've set it up that way. And I think, and so I'm curious that you mentioned that, like, that's when you feel most alive. The pain is something that we shouldn't be afraid of. What do you feel like in the 30, because I'm thinking myself, whether it's before a football game or before doing some little bit of races, what is your thought process, like the 30 minutes,

Starting point is 00:48:31 the 60 minutes, the two hours before a race? like what's going through your mind? Yeah, I honestly be, so before races, the worst part of races, I always get nerves the night before for sure is when I start to, it's the worst, you know? It's an excited type of nerves, but it's still like thinking of everything that could possibly go wrong, which is I'm like, get out of your head, Amelia. the morning of I generally am just very kind of logical and methodical in thinking about planning everything out. So planning out logistics and planning out, you know, my meals beforehand. And if it's a long race, then I need to, you know, set up what are going to be in drop bags or aid stations. And then I just try to zone out. And I don't think for like, you know,

Starting point is 00:49:30 a good 30 minutes before the race, I generally try and be by myself and away from everyone. And I'm there, actually, before every single race, I tell myself that I'm thankful and that I'm fortunate to be out here. And so it's kind of trying to be very humble

Starting point is 00:49:53 in that moment and be very, you know, just grateful for that opportunity. Because, you know, let's be honest, as I've found out with injury, it can disappear in a blink upon eyes. Yeah. Is your joy in this in the literally the moments of the suffering and the pain? Or is it in the accomplishment of completing and sometimes winning, oftentimes winning the races? Or both, maybe?

Starting point is 00:50:21 I think it's a bit of both. But I am a big believer in that you have to enjoy the process. And you have to enjoy. you can't be results oriented all the time and you can't singularly focus on results because I think that that's where people become miserable. So if you're loving the process, then you've won over half the battle. So for me, a lot of the joy is being out there and in that moment. And then obviously then reflecting it on it afterwards. And it's funny.

Starting point is 00:51:00 I think a lot of people are like, oh, God, it's so miserable while you're out there. And then, you know, you say I'm never doing that again. But no, I love every minute out there. I got to believe that's part of what leads to success as some of those others who are just trying to grind and get through it. And you're genuinely enjoying the process of the suffering is part of what, Some would say that's kind of like, I don't know the right word, demented, but it's what led to concurrently leads to all of your success, which, again, I believe carries over into whatever it is you're going to do in your regular life outside of racing. Right.

Starting point is 00:51:43 And so as we're finishing up here, I think it is, I think good maybe one more time to discuss for the person listening who is so focused on their day job. they want to do a good job and then they're busy afterwards. Maybe they have a family or they have things going on to describe why they can do whatever it is that they want to do in addition to whatever it happens from 8 to 5 or 6 o'clock at night. And the way that people do it, I think you're an inspiration for people like that because that's what you do. You're world-class racer in addition to being a world-class attorney at a world-class company. That's not necessarily easy. And so I think that's good to note again and to share so that people can understand that it is possible. And I have had a number of guests tell me there is never a better time than right now to start something new.

Starting point is 00:52:42 And I think that's really interesting. It doesn't mean you go and be an obstacle horse racer. You could. And I think it would be, I think I encourage people. I've done little small races and triathons and things like that. And the feeling you get during it is like a high that, a natural high that is really hard to, I don't get anywhere else.

Starting point is 00:52:59 But I think there's never been a better time to start something new than right now. I think that's very accurate. Yeah. And I think that, you know, it doesn't have to be big. It doesn't have to be overwhelming. But I think that what you may find, and I found this in my life,

Starting point is 00:53:13 is that adding something in can sometimes make everything else. easier that sometimes people think I don't have the time or there's no way that I can that I can nurture something else beyond of my regular responsibilities and I sometimes think that's false. I think that sometimes the more things that we have going on, the more efficient we are. And the better we become at those different aspects of our lives. So really, there's really not much to lose if you think about it. But it's and I'm as a person, I came into athletics when I was 28 years old. So I missed, everyone's like, oh, what did you do in college?

Starting point is 00:53:59 But I miss that entire, you know, normal course of being an athlete. So it's never too late to kind of reinvent yourself there. I'm so glad you brought that out. But I've heard people say, oh, if I was just a little bit younger, I would have maybe studied something different. and had a different career. Or if I was younger, I could start that. The fact that you became the journey to being the best in the world at obstacle course racing, at the age of 28, you didn't play sports in college.

Starting point is 00:54:29 I believe you sang an acapella group in college. Is that right? Oh, yeah. I was mostly all in music, yes. All music. So, and did you have a background in athletics and growing up in high school and prior to that a little bit? I played, yeah, I played soccer, softball, basketball growing up.

Starting point is 00:54:46 I was kind of, you know, just a multi-sport athlete, but I was. was never an outstanding All-Star or anything along those lines. And then you picked it up on a whim for one race with friends and then you go from there. But I think it's a great example, Amelia, though, to share that I really despise if somebody thinks they're, they can't stay on this learning journey regardless of how, even if they're 60 years old right now. And they're like, oh, you know, it's kind of kind of winding down in my career or they're retired. Like, yeah, I'm good. I've had a good run. It's like, no, man.

Starting point is 00:55:20 Like, if there's something you want to do, go, like, if you want to run races, go run races. If you want to learn a new language or play guitar or whatever may be, I think it's, there's not, there's no reason to not go and do something if that's what your heart set out to want to do. And I love that you started this at the, not that, I mean, 28's still pretty young. But still, though, you weren't doing it since you were 12. Right. And in terms of an athletic lifespan, you know, it's, it is on the, it's on the later end. end. So, but I think you hit the nail on the head is that I think that the key in life is wanting to be a lifelong learner and always constantly just wanting to know more and learning new

Starting point is 00:56:00 things and finding that next thing. And that's kind of what I've done my entire life. And then I found this and then that's been my thing. And I'm like, okay, but then five years, what's, what's going to be the next thing, you know, or what, what am I going to want to learn and then do then? And so there's such a world of possibilities. And, you know, I turned 33 yesterday. Oh, happy work then. Thank you. And I still ask myself every single day, what do I want to be when I grow up?

Starting point is 00:56:30 And so to me, that doesn't scare me. That's a great question because I still feel like there's an endless world of possibilities out there. I love it. Love it. Amelia, thank you so much for sharing being so open to talking about both. great moments and tough moments. I really appreciate it. Where would you send my listeners to learn more about you online? Yeah, I have a website that is semi-poorily maintained, but it's amelia boonracing.com. You can find me on Twitter at Amelia Boone, though, if you warned, I tweet a lot about football

Starting point is 00:57:08 and professional wrestling. And then you can find me on Instagram. to A.R. Boone 11. Perfect. Well, again, thank you so much. And I absolutely want to continue this dialogue as we both for us. I'm excited to see what you continue to do. I'm a big fan. And so thank you, though, for sharing here on The Learning Leader Show. Yeah, thank you for having me on. All right. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learning Leader Show.com. for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him

Starting point is 00:57:56 on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again and we'll see you next time on the Learning Leader Show.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 169: Amelia Boone - How The Best Obstacle Racer In The World Embraces Pain

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