The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 179: How To Sustain Excellence - The Best Answers from 178 Conversations

Starting point is 00:00:01 Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. When I go out and give talks, one of the first questions I always seem to get is, what are

Starting point is 00:00:43 some of the common themes you found amongst the greatest leaders in the world through talking to them on your podcast? And also longtime listeners know that I love to ask, what are some of the common characteristics of sustained excellence? And so this episode is really an all-star clip-filled edition of the greatest leaders I've spoken with. And really the best answer is when it comes to that question of sustaining excellence. So you're here from Kat Cole, Adam Grant, Simon Sinek, Tim Urban, Seth Godin, Cal Newport, Amy Porterfield, Rob D. Martini, David Burkess, Dan Pink, and more on what it means to sustain excellence. You know, I always think it's a good idea to try new things and to experiment.

Starting point is 00:01:27 If you guys like this episode, please don't hesitate to let me know by contacting me at learning leader.com or on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Without further ado, it's sustaining excellence on the Learning Leader show. To get us started, we have the CEO. of Focus Brands, Cat Cole. First, when I think of success and achievement, I'd like to focus on the productive achievers versus destructive achievers.

Starting point is 00:02:01 There are a lot of people who have been incredibly successful by the typical person's definition, financially or in terms of career acceleration, but have done it destructively by not lifting others up and not bringing others along with them. So I think most about those who have been productive achievers that not only have traditional accomplishments as it relates to success, but have also brought others along with them and made a difference.

Starting point is 00:02:27 And I would say the characteristics that I've learned are the most common in those productive achievers. It's actually, if you kind of envision a scale, it's a balance of two buckets of characteristics. The first being courage and confidence. So the leaders that have been not only great in achievement, but productive, achievers have on one side this really well-built muscle around courage and confidence. They take risks. They believe in their point of view, and therefore others do too. But on the other side of that scale is another bucket of characteristics that has to be

Starting point is 00:03:06 essentially equally weighted, that is curiosity and humility. And leaders that have a level of curiosity and humility, by definition, convey to others that they don't know everything, and therefore that you need. the people around you, that they're a part of something bigger. And what I have both experienced and observed is that if you get one of those buckets of behaviors too far overweighted from the other and they get out of balance, it's really difficult to have sustained success and be a productive achiever. So if you're only courageous and confident and you don't have the humility and curiosity

Starting point is 00:03:47 to balance it out, you're really just a bull in the China show. And we've all worked for those leaders. We know those people and we've met them. And they charge ahead, but they charge so far ahead that they actually end up looking behind them and seeing no one there. And then on the other side, if you're only humble and curious, really you're just a student. And it's difficult to convey confidence when you're just sitting back questioning. And so any time in my life or when I have observed other leaders and I see those things, out of balance, it typically has not led to an optimal outcome.

Starting point is 00:04:24 So I really believe that foundationally, no matter the industry, regardless of the maturity of the leader, regardless of the age or the culture, that the balance of those two buckets of characteristics is the single greatest determiner of long-term success. Next up, one of my all-time favorite leaders author of two bestselling books, give and take and originals. It's Adam Grant. You know, from studying other people who have been wildly successful and done it again and again, I think the most consistent common attribute is that they're dedicated learners. And I think that what's fascinating about them is no matter how much excellence they achieve, they're always raising the bar. So you see this with a lot of the tech

Starting point is 00:05:11 Titans. You know, when I talk to Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or Larry Page or Jeff Bezos, it's the first thing that you see is the more they accomplish, the more they expect of themselves, and they always have something new. They're excited to learn. And I think if that's your goal, you're always getting better and you're always discovering new insights. It makes me think of, and I was obviously doing a lot of research prior to this conversation, Elizabeth Gilbert said the starting point for creativity is curiosity, and it's one of the readings that you recommend on your TED page. And so I love, you know, curiosity is a big aspect of my whole, this whole project, the Learning Leaders Show. I mean, 1205 plus conversations with incredible leaders from all different

Starting point is 00:05:57 spaces. And it's mainly born out of the fact that I'm innately curious. And so I'm curious from your perspective, when you think about creativity and curiosity, how, of you, or when it comes to you, how do those relate to what you do and what you've studied? I love that Elizabeth Gilbert quote, and I think it's not an accident that you created a learning leader podcast, Ryan, because you are somebody who embodies this just almost insatiable desire to learn. And I think that curiosity is, and to me, it's the starting point for all originality. When people come up with ideas that are not only different but better, they've, without fail, they've started by looking at something in their world and saying, why is it that

Starting point is 00:06:47 way? Who created it? And does it have to be that way? Is there another way to do it? And if that's your mindset, if that's your orientation toward, you know, the world around you, then you're going to be constantly coming up with ways to challenge the status quo and new inventions and discoveries. Followed by legendary author and Ted Speaker Simon Sinek. You know, I get asked this question, you know, sort of what are the characteristics of leaders? And, you know, much has been written about these things. You know, they have vision, they have charisma and all these things. And I'm not so sure that's true.

Starting point is 00:07:22 I know some spectacular leaders who are not that charismatic, you know, like they're sort of quiet and sort of to themselves. And I know some spectacular leaders who don't have big sort of Steve Jobs. type visions of changing the world. They're definitely focused, but but huge vision is just, it's just not there. One thing I am comfortable saying that all these great leaders that I've met have in common is, uh, is courage. It's, it takes tremendous courage to stick to your values when sometimes, uh, market pressures or, or pressures from our superiors want us to take an expedient route. It takes tremendous courage to, to stand up to, to Wall Street, if that's, that's the position that someone's in.

Starting point is 00:08:05 It takes tremendous courage to stick to your vision and be sort of stubborn about directing your life and your career towards that vision. Sometimes a short-term personal sacrifice. So courage is it for me. Next up, another incredible TED Talker and writer at waitbut why.com friend of Elon Musk. It's Tim Urban.

Starting point is 00:08:29 The key word there is, you know, sustained amount of time. I don't know about how can people stay relevant for five, 10, 20 years and continue to lead. And I think that, you know, if you want to boil leadership down, you know, it comes down to kind of doing something or having a voice or actions that can kind of make a splash that can kind of shake things up or, you know, in a way that changes what other people do. and that either other people will actively follow or just without realizing it they'll be affected by it. It's kind of like the impact. I feel like the level of impact you make is kind of the metric for what kind of leadership you're providing. And so to continue to make impact, the point is, you know, impact usually happens because it's something different than what is normal. I like to kind of compare life in a lot of ways to like a canvas.

Starting point is 00:09:27 and you can kind of say if it's a white canvas, most people are painting in white, which means they're kind of contributing, but not really. They're not changing it. They're part of it, but they're not really, when they paint white on white, nothing is really different about it. And that's normal.

Starting point is 00:09:42 That's most of us most of the time. And then it's when someone can kind of be outside of the status quo when they can kind of do something that the conventional wisdom suggests is wrong, but it happens to actually not be wrong. and they're painting in a different color, and that shakes things up. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it leads to spectacular failures, but often, if it goes well, it can suddenly, okay, that whole part of the canvas is now a different thing.

Starting point is 00:10:07 And now everyone's painting a different color on that side of the canvas. So this is a long way of saying that if you want to sustain that concept, and so you start painting a blue on the canvas by, you know, doing something new. Classic example you can bring up always as Steve Jobs. You know, everyone's doing, you know, the head of IBM is saying there will never be a personal computer in someone's home. That's not, you know, and not something that will happen. That was a landscape. That was a normal thing to say in the 70s.

Starting point is 00:10:36 And, you know, Steve Jobs comes out, you know, with stuff and Wozniak. They come out with something like the Macintosh. Okay, that's major leadership. Suddenly all these companies are scrambling to try to do stuff like that. People are buying it. Completely impacts the world. So, you know, so suddenly he's painting in blue on a white canvas. Okay.

Starting point is 00:10:53 But now, if he just keeps painting in blue, he kind of loses his ability to continue to lead. He kind of, you know, becomes part of the canvas. So if you want to sustain and continue to lead and continue, you have to keep reinventing yourself. And you have to keep, which requires an element of humility, I think. So I think a lot of the leaders, no, not, that's Steve Jobs wasn't exactly a humble person. But I think you're someone like Seth Godin, you know, is definitely an influence of mine. I look up to him as a really wise person. And if you look at, you know, he is constantly searching.

Starting point is 00:11:26 He's constantly rethinking his own thoughts and reinventing himself and, you know, writing, you know, books with new concepts in them that he's thought up recently. That's someone who's continuing to do the hard work of continuing to try to be original, even in the landscape of their previous own work. And so the Steve Jobs, you know, comes into that because then he suddenly says, okay, well, how about music and rent the iPod? How about phones? How about tablets? I mean, that's why Apple stock went so crazy because they kept leading. They kept painting in a new color that no one expected. And so I think that that's maybe the quality I would say I see the most is the ability to stay, stay hungry as the Apple kind of slogan goes and to kind of continue to say, well, okay, but now how can I reinnovate beyond myself again?

Starting point is 00:12:17 I think that's kind of the quality. I would say I see most often. Next up, a guy who needs absolutely no introduction. The Hall of Famer, it's Seth Godin. The only thing that I've seen that leaders have in common, they're short and they're tall and they're fat and they're skinny and they stutter and they don't stutter and they're charismatic and they're handsome and they're unattractive and everything.

Starting point is 00:12:40 The only thing they have in common is that they have made a choice and that choice is to lead and to make a difference. It is easy to not make that choice. choice. And if you don't make that choice, it's easy to believe that leadership belongs to other people, that somehow the fickle finger of fate points to someone else. Somehow it's luck or good fortune. But in my experience, it is always a choice. Followed up by one of my favorite writers. So good, they can't ignore you in Deep Work. It's bestselling author and teacher Cal Newport. The meta-level characteristic that I observe when you really see sustained excellence is this notion that the leader respects how hard everything is that's worth doing.

Starting point is 00:13:33 In other words, if I was ever asked to give a commencement address, I think the title would be, everything's harder than you think. This tends to be the reality. And those who recognize it, you recognize that real impactful work is not just going to unfold with a close. combination of systems and life hacks that impactful contribution is really hard and prepare themselves for that battle and prepare themselves to get satisfaction out of that craft. They're the ones that I tend to see continue to produce at a really high level, as composed to those who maybe have a flash in the pan here and there and then trail off. It's that recognition that real impactful work is really hard. It's not necessarily a scary thing, but it's a reality.

Starting point is 00:14:16 Followed up by legendary entrepreneur, former Tony Robbins worker. It's Amy Porterfield. You know, the first word that comes to mind is consistency. I have really studied some of my mentors and what makes them so excellent. And what makes them keep moving forward, growing their audiences, getting so many people engaged. And what I've noticed out of all of them is that they are creating consistent content and they're showing up consistently. So they have that drive to always be out there doing what they promised over and over again. And I think that makes a huge difference in success.

Starting point is 00:14:56 Next up, wow, the CEO of New Balance, one of my favorite brands of shoes and clothes. It's Rob DeMartini. Ryan, great question. And thanks for letting me talk with you today about this. I have been blessed by just, you know, being lucky and in the right place at the right time. and been around people that had, have and continue to have significant levels of success in all walks of life, not just business or work or financial, but, you know, I think to measure somebody's success, you've got to look at more aspects of their life.

Starting point is 00:15:33 But a number of years ago, I started to try to think about, you know, to try to commit to paper, what was I seeing that were the consistent and common themes across these people of significant success? And my list really has four things on it. The first I always see is people who are naturally curious. Do they want to understand how things are working? How did that happen? Could it have happened differently? All that kind of stuff.

Starting point is 00:16:01 I mean, if you're curious, it opens up questions and leads you towards answers and learnings that otherwise you don't see. Real quick, Rob, I want to get to the other three for sure. but I absolutely love that aspect, and I even love it so much that on the front page of my website, Learningleadershow.com, it says, are you massively curious? Because the friends of this show, the listeners, are probably the curious type, because that's definitely what how I am. And so that's how I like to live. So it's really cool to hear you.

Starting point is 00:16:33 It's a lot of research in your show, but I agree with you full of it. Oh, perfect. Okay, go ahead. Sorry. The other three, energy, you know, energy and optimism. You always see that in people that are successful. And then the one that really stands out for me the most, maybe because it takes the most to work,

Starting point is 00:16:54 is a really high sense of personal awareness. Do you know how you're coming across to others? Do you have a good read for how they're receiving your message? Followed by another bestselling author and professor personal friend of mine. It's David Burkis. The thing that I'm, I mean, I'd love to give you these awesome answers, like they're deliberate practice or they're totally disciplined and they have every minute of their day scheduled out. But honestly, the one unifying thing that I've seen among sort of everybody that's really striving for excellence in their career or in their creative work or whatever it is, I think there's a consistent dissatisfaction, like that we have to balance. this tension between stepping back and going, yeah, I did that and I'm really proud, but also

Starting point is 00:17:40 looking at like, here's where I could go if I keep working. And so, I mean, I'm always this way. You're probably always this way. And almost everybody that I talk to about this has this idea of like, yes, I need to remember to be proud of the things that I've accomplished. But also, I'm sort of constantly frustrated that I'm not further along or I know that I can hit this peak in my potential and I'm not there yet type of a dissatisfaction. And really it's that balance between gratefulness and dissatisfaction that I think keeps people striving for that sustained excellence. Next up, the legendary great writer and has become a friend.

Starting point is 00:18:15 I'm so thankful. It's Dan Pink. I think one of them would be curiosity. They follow their noses. They remain interested in stuff, even if they know a lot of stuff. In fact, especially if they know a lot of stuff. One of the consequences I think of knowing a lot of stuff is you realize how little you know. And so there's a lot more to be curious about.

Starting point is 00:18:34 So I'd actually put curiosity at the top of that list. The second thing is that not uniformly, but in many, many cases, I think there's an element of generosity to these folks. That might surprise you. They're actually, I think the people who, and I love the way you put it, of sustaining excellence who do that over time. Many of them, not all of them, end up being reasonably generous people. They're willing to help other people out. They're willing to, you know, they're not people who pull up the ladder once they get on the top. They're willing to help other people along.

Starting point is 00:19:07 And the third thing is that they, it's going to sound a little old fashion, but they are extraordinarily hardworking and conscientious. Those old, the old fashioned virtues of persistence and grit and conscientiousness are their hallmarks. So that's what I would say. followed up by Tim Kite, the Secret Weapon to the success of Ohio State. I've spent my adult life studying that. So I've got three decades and more of observation research on that topic. And we'll talk more about it, I'm sure, on this podcast. But here's the core thing.

Starting point is 00:19:50 Here's what I've seen. People who consistently perform at the upper levels of, of their potential and beyond are people who are intentional, purposeful, and they're constantly building skill. And they simply act and think with more intention, purpose, and skill than other people. That would be the heartbeat of it from my experience. I love it, man. Are there a few people that come to mind instantly when you think of world-class performers,

Starting point is 00:20:21 success, high achievers? Yeah, and there's one person that stands out, I think, because of where he was in my arc of my journey. And that's John Wooden. Just a little quick about my background. I grew up in Columbus, ran track, played football in a high school in Central Ohio, went to Ohio State my freshman year in a track and field scholarship. And I'd been fortunate enough to be national champion in my track event, my senior year. But then when I got to Ohio State, it way back then, they just didn't have quite the same.

Starting point is 00:20:53 commitment to track and field that they do today. So I transferred and I transferred to UCLA. And that was the track and field center of the universe. Our locker room at UCLA back then was in Pauley Pavilion, which is where the basketball team was. And I had the great fortune to observe John Wooden as he coached his ninth and tenth national championships in basketball. And as I watched him do what he did, I was fascinated. I was intrigued by how does this guy do this? You know, they dubbed him by that time the Wizard of Westwood. And it wasn't wizardry, it was skill. He was just really, really effective at leading, building culture, motivating, and teaching.

Starting point is 00:21:35 That's his number one thing. This is a teacher. And I, that was the genesis. That was the trigger. That was the starting point for what I do today. And he would stand out as the real catalyst, I think, Ryan, for peak performance as an individual and as a leader, which I think significant. Next up, man, pencils of promise, the guy who created it all. What a charity.

Starting point is 00:21:57 It's Adam Braun. I would say it's a couple things. And first and foremost, I'm honored to be on the podcast. But there's three things that really stand out to me when considering people that have achieved sustained excellence. So the first is they're tremendously motivated. They're not necessarily motivated by the extrinsic characteristics, you know, having a bigger house, a nicer car, you know, more money in the bank account. Those are things that certainly can motivate individuals, but I don't think that you see that as the primary motivator within people who have sustained excellence. It's always intrinsic.

Starting point is 00:22:29 It's the desire to be a better version of themselves tomorrow than they were today. It's the desire to outdo whatever their previous achievement was on whatever scale it attained to do something bigger in the next iteration of their life. And so they have all these kind of intrinsic motivations rather than extrinsic that allow for sustained excellence rather than a one-off. The second one is they display a tremendous amount of integrity. I do a lot of public speaking. And one of the things that I consistently share is that integrity is the currency that buys trust. And ultimately, I think there's a lot of people who reach levels of success. And the higher you get in your personal level of success, oftentimes, the fewer kind of checks and balances or kind of people looking over your shoulder.

Starting point is 00:23:11 You know, your own boss, there isn't a boss to check on whether you're doing the right thing at all times. And that's when personal integrity really becomes important. And we've seen it so many times with these people that we hold in such a steam light within society. You know, they have 20-year careers of excellence. And they have this one moment where they drop their personal integrity. And, you know, the entire kind of house that they've built comes crumbling down. And so that's the second one is just tremendous personal integrity. And then the third is that they surround themselves with people that, I think, kind of play not on their level, but play on the level above them.

Starting point is 00:23:44 And so, you know, the way I frame it is that they're always kind of trying to play on the big kids court. You know, if you think about little kids, there's usually courts broken out by age. And there's always like that one, you know, eight-year-old that's playing with the 12-year-olds. Even if they're the smallest kid, they're just scrappy. And I find that people that have sustained excellence in their lives and careers consistently are not comparing themselves to what others would deem as their peer set. They're comparing themselves to the people that are on the next level that they want to be at. Followed by a guy who wants all of our children to learn to be entrepreneurs. It's Cameron Harold.

Starting point is 00:24:20 I think one is a sense of vulnerability that they've checked their ego at the door and they're not trying to be anything other than who they actually are. They're just authentically themselves without trying to be out there saying, hey, I'm being authentic. They're just themselves would be one. Another one is that they're always realizing that they're not or hopefully not the smartest person in the room. They're always trying to surround themselves with brilliant people to continue their learning. And then I guess a sense of curiosity.

Starting point is 00:24:42 that they ask lots of questions. They're not there to talk about themselves. They're always intrigued with other people and with learning in the world. Next up, some great career advice. Someone who's been CEO of multiple companies. I love this one. Man, it's so good with Sarah Rob O'Hagan.

Starting point is 00:25:00 One of the biggest single things is curiosity, without a doubt. And I think curiosity goes hand in hand with humility and the people that I have spent a lot of time with. And what I mean by that is they don't ever feel like they've reached the top of the mountain. They don't ever feel like they have all the answers. They're always looking for more, curious to see what else is out there, curious to see how much better they can be.

Starting point is 00:25:26 And I think humility is interesting to me. Like it blows me away, you know, having spent a lot of time with leaders, you know, directly close to me and interviewing leaders from other industries. how, you know, I look at these people and go, my God, you're the best in the world at whatever it is you're doing. And they're kind of like, gosh, I'm so honored that you would want to ask me question. And so I think to me there's an extraordinary humility, which is what leads you to feel like there's still more to do. Next up, man, she climbs the biggest mountains in the world. Such resilience. She's so good. It's

Starting point is 00:26:07 Alison Levine. I think a common characteristic that they share is resilience more than anything else. And what I do, climbing mountains or these extreme ski expeditions to the north and south pole or whatever it is, you have to have that strong sense of resilience. And I remind people all the time, you don't have to be the best, strongest, fastest, climber to get to the top of a mountain. You just have to be absolutely resilient about putting. one foot in front of the other.

Starting point is 00:26:39 That's really all it's about. Followed up by another friend of mine, a guy who was so thoughtful, curious, and probably the best public speaker I've ever seen, it's Joey Coleman. You know, it's interesting, Ryan, I think, and first of all,

Starting point is 00:26:55 thank you. I appreciate the opportunity, not only to be on your podcast, but the opportunity I've had to walk in a lot of different lives, whether it's hanging out with a well-known speakers or growing up in a family of politicians and kind of people that were running for president, you know, kind of being around leaders of industry or leaders in various academic fields.

Starting point is 00:27:19 And I think if I had to, you know, sum it up, I would say the following. I think all leaders, if you will, have kind of three general things in common. Number one, they have a growth in learning mindset. What I mean by that is they are constantly thirsting for knowledge and learning, whether it be within their industry or within their area of practice, but also beyond. So they're constantly consuming information. They're constantly consuming experiences, and that's a real driver for them. And to be frank, I know that's one way that you and I connected, because I know that's kind of what drives you, this whole idea of how can I learn more, how can I grow more, how can I kind of experience more?

Starting point is 00:28:09 Secondly, I think all fantastic leaders have a common thread of gratitude. They recognize just how lucky and blessed they are. And taking time to appreciate the many gifts and blessings and benefits in their life is a regular part, if not a daily part of their practice. finally, I think that while successful leaders are very driven and very focused, the very best ones are also gentle with themselves. All too often, I think we can let our drive and our desire to succeed and take things to the next level and accomplishment. It becomes an all-consuming force inside us that usually is paired with a belief, well, I'm not quite there yet. I need to push

Starting point is 00:29:02 charter or I haven't accomplished as much as I want to, I need to do more. I think in general, that drive is fantastic and has certainly helped many people arrive at the success that they have achieved to date. But the very best in my experience are gentle with themselves. They pause to not always be pushing themselves 110%. They paused to say, you know, it didn't work out exactly the way I hoped this time. But here are some interesting learnings that came from missing the target. And that kind of loops us back

Starting point is 00:29:39 to that growth and learning mindset. So I think those three things kind of work in concert together, at least in my experience, to create really successful leaders. Flow states, how do we get there? Man, this one's so good with Stephen Kotler. It's an interesting question. You know what?

Starting point is 00:29:59 Everywhere I look, so, you know, I spent a lot long time kind of covering action sports and how athletes were able to kind of push the limits of kinesthetic possibility. And I sort of did the same thing in entrepreneurship, looking at kind of global world-changing leaders, you know, people taking on grand challenges. And I, same thing with technology. I, you know, I spent a lot of time covering as a reporter in my book Tomorrowland, the people who turned science fiction into science fact, who literally invented the future. And the thing So a couple of things it seems to unite them. But first and foremost, they're ferocious about forward progress.

Starting point is 00:30:39 They're just ferocious. And there's nothing mild about how they attack life. It's constant. It's full steam ahead. It's always on. And I've seen this across the wars. Not that this is very surprising. But the level of the commitment is what always amazes me.

Starting point is 00:30:58 The day-to-day get up and, you know, shop wood. carry water kind of stuff. They're ferocious about that as well. That's what's so impressive. And the other thing, and you know, when this comes out of my research into flow, right into the optimal state of performance, everybody I've ever met who's super successful,

Starting point is 00:31:16 either consciously or unconsciously, has created a life that maximizes the amount of time they get to spend in flow. So I think those are the two characteristics. I think they're probably linked together as well. But that's what I've seen. We're going to finish this one up with none other than the great Philip McCurton. It's in the eyes.

Starting point is 00:31:38 I love this one. Philip McCurnan. But what I look for in successful people is the eyes. You look into the eyes and you can know if somebody's aligned to the work they do and the businesses they run and they have peace of mind. And to me, they're one of the same thing, arguably. But if someone's got peace of mind, it emulates and it just kind of comes out of their soul. Therefore, out of their eyes. And you can look them in the eye.

Starting point is 00:32:00 and I think I've honed the ability to really use the eyes as a gateway to see, you know, to call bullshit, basically, for want of a better term. And you don't see it a lot. I mean a lot of very successful people on paper who would be societally would be considered very successful or even in the public domain or in the media. A lot of people who want to be successful. And, you know, again, they don't necessarily have the peace of mind and they're not necessarily aligned to the work they do. In other words, the work is not an expression of their soul and who they are. It's what they do. And that to me comes at a cost if it's not aligned. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12.

Starting point is 00:32:54 Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on the Learning Leader Show.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 179: How To Sustain Excellence - The Best Answers from 178 Conversations

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