The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 194: Nate Checketts - CEO Of Rhone: Leaving Comfort To Make An Impact

Starting point is 00:00:00 And this was the pitch. We know nothing about apparel or fashion. We know a little bit about e-commerce. So if you're going to invest, don't put any more money in than your spouse would get mad at you for if you lost it completely. And so we raise a lot of $5,000 and $10,000 checks from people. And that's, you know, that's not an insignificant amount of money, but for us, that's what got us off the ground. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leaders Show. I am Ryan Hawke. Thanks so much for being here. I get asked all the time, how do you decide who the guest for this show should be? And tonight's story, tonight's episode is interesting in that regard.

Starting point is 00:00:46 As a gift, my wife got me some clothes for Christmas. And I tried them on, immediately loved them, loved how they felt. And they were called Roan, R-H-O-N-E, clothes to work out in primarily. And so normally when something like this happens, I immediately want to be. to know who makes these clothes. And so I looked it up and it's the guy who created this company who makes these clothes is named Nate Chekitts. And Nate is my featured leader tonight. His company has grown 250% year every year. He's raised over $8 million in funding. Rohn is incredible and Nate is as well. And I loved him discussing his story and detail tonight. A few of the additional

Starting point is 00:01:26 topics we got into the importance of routine and habits and how this has positively impacted Nate's life. then what it was like at the very beginning of his entrepreneur journey and the mistakes that he made. Followed by life and growing up with an ultra successful dad. His dad is Dave Checkitz, who was the president of the New York Knicks. Nate grew up around professional athletics his whole life. His dad has had an incredible career, made a boatload of money, very successful. And I, it's my favorite part of the talk. It's near the end, but Nate and I had talked what it's like growing up with very successful parents

Starting point is 00:01:59 and the impact they can have on you both good and bad. And I love how humble and the credit Nate gives to his parents. I think you really enjoy that part of the conversation. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, I love this one with Nate Check It's. Okay, Nate, thanks so much for being here on The Learning Leader Show. Welcome. Thanks for having me, Ryan. I'm a big fan of the work that you do, both your story as well as the company that you run, love Roan.

Starting point is 00:02:31 And I know that you guys have quickly found a way to success. excellence. That's a big phrase for me. And the long-time listeners know I use it a lot. And I'm curious from your perspective, the people that you spend time around, that you've studied, maybe even thinking about yourself, what are the common themes you found in those who sustain excellence? You know, that's a great question. And I think it's ultimately the question, right? Because there's, when you look at anyone's success, it's easy for any of us to look at that person and say, oh, that person got lucky, or that person was given a lot, or, you know, just right place, right time. But when you find those people who, no matter where they are, they tend to be successful,

Starting point is 00:03:22 those are the people that I try and focus on and look at and see when success can be repeatable and become a habit. And I think for me, something that doesn't come naturally to me. And as a result, because it doesn't come naturally to me, I tend to focus on it and talk about it, almost ad nauseum. It is really routine. And when I think about how routine can be helpful to determining not just short-term success, but long-term sustainable success, it's doing, you know, if you want to have a good life, you need to have good years. And in order to have good years, you need to have good months. And in order to have good months, you need to have good weeks and good days.

Starting point is 00:04:08 And so how can you create a routine and a system of habits to create good and better days? And it's something that I think a lot about and I'm certainly not perfect at. But that is something that I spend a lot of time on is my routine and trying to create a routine that will routinely create good results. What is your daily routine? If we walk, I know every day is different in the life of an entrepreneur, somebody who's growing a business, but what is it like in the life of Nacheckis when you think about what time do you wake up? What do you do the first 60 minutes of your day? And then how does it progress from there?

Starting point is 00:04:47 Yeah. So the answer for me is that it does depend on the day. And some of the best advice that I ever received was from Jack Dorsey. I was fortunate enough to spend some time with Jack Dorsey. He can be a bit of a polarizing figure, but, you know, you look at a guy like that, created and launched Twitter, created and launched Square on the board of Disney, just an incredible guy and had an opportunity to spend some time with him one-on-one in several instances. And I asked him a similar question of how does he spend his time? You know, he's sitting on the board of three major companies. And I know from my small little micro company of Rhone versus these billion-dollar.

Starting point is 00:05:29 all their businesses, you've got product, you've got finance, you've got operations, you've got HR, you've got marketing, advertising. There's so many different places you can be spending your time and so many different people who want a piece of your time. How do you stay focused? And so he gave me some advice that he tries to focus on one thing at a time. So Thursdays, for example, are his days of outside meetings. That's the day where he schedules any meetings that are not related to his core company that he's focused on. So if he wants to meet with a potential intern or an investor, and not all of us are as fortunate as Jack Dorsey,

Starting point is 00:06:09 where we can control our schedule as much as he can, but it's amazing how many people will actually adapt to your schedule if you kind of set some stakes in guardrail. So for me, my day starts early. I have three kids. So if I want to spend time with them and get work done, I simply have to wake up early. And so generally I'm up between 4.30 and 5.30 every day.

Starting point is 00:06:35 And my morning routine is pretty consistent. I start off with some kind of personal spiritual time. I read scriptures in the morning. I know that's not for everyone, but for me, it's a really important way for me to start my day and kind of 10 to 15 minutes of meditation and setting the day. And then I've been following this book called The Five Minute Journal, which some people have heard of. But it really helps frame your day.

Starting point is 00:07:08 And so I'll fill that out. Think about what I want to do. And then I will head to the gym and get a workout unless I'm running outside. One of the things, by the way, that I've been trying to kind of create a routine around is my exercise habits because I find that I tend to get really focused on one thing. so I just ran up, I just finished my first marathon. So I was consistently running. Now I'm kind of back into a foundational program of a combination of lifting cardio. And I've actually started incorporating yoga once a week, which is really, really new for me.

Starting point is 00:07:42 But Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays, I'm in the office fairly early, usually at my desk by about 7.30. And then on Wednesdays, that's the day that I, I told my wife, like, this is your morning. You can do whatever you want with it. I will wake up. I'll cook the kids' breakfast. I'll make their lunch and I'll take them to school. And so that's kind of my morning routine.

Starting point is 00:08:10 Similarly, on the days, Monday, I'm home early. I spend family time with my family. Monday evenings, we have dinner together. We do a family night together. Tuesday's, Wednesday's my city day. So I generally am in Manhattan. And Wednesday is our late office day. So most of our team is in the office late on Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:08:31 And on Thursday, it's kind of a flex day. So generally, I try and get home at a decent hour so my wife can have, her name's Dana. So we call it a Dana night. So again, she can go out and hang out with friends or get her time. And then Friday, I'm home at around five or six. So I really have my week planned out. And it changes if I have to travel if something comes up. But even if it gets disrupted, I'm always.

Starting point is 00:08:55 able to go back and just center myself and say, what day is it? And when I ask myself what day it is, then I can come back to my routine. And so that's the great thing about habits and routine is that even if they get disrupted, if you write them down and you really schedule them out, you can go back to it. Wow. So you really do. I just like, I love the aspect of being so thoughtful about how you spend your time. Because I think one of the problems with with all people at times, and we've all probably I've been in this position where we just mindlessly get up and go about our time. And before you know it, an entire year has passed. And if you will go back to analyze, you're like, what did I do?

Starting point is 00:09:35 What did I accomplish? You know? And so it's so important to be mindful of what you're going to do and to plan. And I love that aspect of routine. I think you're the first person in 190 plus of these to say that we're having a specific routine and a plan like that. I love that advice from Jack Dorsey as well. Yeah, I remember getting, somebody gave me a Franklin planner. This was probably, I don't know, 15 years ago.

Starting point is 00:10:03 I think I was right, either like a senior in high school or like first year of college. I remember getting this Franklin planner. And that's how people used to, I mean, there are some people who still use these planners to plan their days. But I'll never forget the opening quote that was on that book. And it said, does thou love life? Then do not squander time for that is the stuff life is. made of. And I believe it was Benjamin Franklin. I'm sure somebody will quote correct me at some point, but that has always stayed with me. And you're right. Like, life is made up of time. And if we don't

Starting point is 00:10:34 value our own time, no one's going to value it for us. So it's that rule of protecting your own time. And you can do that without having to be arrogant or a jerk about it. I have a friend who gave me the example of a dentist where he said, you know, when you call the dentist and you ask for an appointment, And you say, can I have, everybody says the same thing. Can I have it first thing in the morning or as late as possible in the afternoon? And they're like, okay, well, I have this next week at one o'clock in the afternoon. Like, wow, that's going to work for me. And they're like, okay, well, I have two months out from that.

Starting point is 00:11:07 I can get you in at 8 a.m. And, you know, then you're like, all right, I'll take one o'clock. And you make it work. And so his advice was you've got to be the dentist of your own calendar. Like, there are just times where you have to say, oh, that's just not going to work. And for me, especially as as things have ramped up and the business has gotten a bit crazier, that's been really important, good advice. So, Nate, when somebody that does not know you comes up to or maybe they see you at a dinner party and they say,

Starting point is 00:11:36 hey, Nate, what do you do? How do you respond to that? Now I say I run a clothing company, which is a weird thing for me to be saying. But, yeah, that's generally how I've answered that question over the last six months. So can you take me back? And by the way, the clothing company is called Rohn, R-H-O-N-E. And we'll talk about why you named that, which I love the reasoning behind it. But take me back to when you're working as a full-time employee.

Starting point is 00:12:05 The reason I think it's important to go back to this time, Nate, and I told you, as we were talking prior to recording, is the fact that I get a lot of emails from people who were probably in a similar situation. or maybe right now they're in a similar situation to you. Maybe they have an idea or they have ideas of something they want to do and they're working full time. And they don't really know what to do next. And so I'd love to go back and I assume it was sometime around the 2011 or 2012 time frame. And take us back where you were when you had the idea for Roan and how you got it started. Sure.

Starting point is 00:12:42 So it was it was kind of the Christmas of 2011. that the idea really came about. And I cannot take the credit for the idea, certainly not singularly. My younger brother married a Canadian girl, and I think at the time they were actually just dating. But, you know, in an effort for Christmas shopping, my mom went out and had brought her, her name's Laura, with her.

Starting point is 00:13:08 And Laura said, oh, look, there's a Lulu Lemon store. Let's go in there, which was really popular. obviously in Canada had not kind of hit the peak of its popularity yet in the States. And they went in there. My mom saw kind of bought everything, bought some things for the women in the family, and then saw they had a small men section and bought each of the guys in the family some sweatpants. So Christmas morning rolls around. We are opening the boxes and, you know, thanks so much, mom, sweatpants.

Starting point is 00:13:41 These are great. and I can't remember, I think I was familiar with the brand, but not like intimately familiar with the brand. And my brother-in-law said, oh man, I'm not wearing these pants. I refuse to wear these pants. And I said, wait, why? Like these, you know, I was getting tons of free product working at the NFL at the time. So I had all this free product there. And he said, this, Nate, this is a women's yoga brand. Like, look at the logo. Look at the packaging. And, maybe I'm not as proud as he is, but, you know, I kind of said, that's weird. So maybe I won't wear the pants outside of the house, but I'll wear them inside of the house.

Starting point is 00:14:22 I mean, these are nice. I'm not going to pray. But it kind of stuck with me a little bit, and I started thinking about it. Well, fast forward, I'm at the NFL, and Budweiser was a big league sponsor, sent a box of Lou Lemon gear for the women in the office. And they started opening it up. I'm fairly new there to the NFL. the league. I'm trying to, I'm trying to like participate in the conversation, you know, the new guy who wants to be able to contribute. And I said, oh, I have some Lou Lemon sweatpants at home.

Starting point is 00:14:54 And it was that record stopping moment where all of a sudden, like, guys in the office just started ribbing me like, whoa, check, it's you buy Lou Lemon. And I was like, oh, wait, no, it was a gift. And, um, and then I remember one guy in particular was like, oh, so you must buy your underwear at Victoria's Secret. It's kind of this machismo NFL is a place where you might have that. But I remember kind of speaking with my brother-in-law about it, and we just felt like, look, when you think about premium men, nobody is doing that or focusing on that side of the market.

Starting point is 00:15:34 You have this huge growth on premium women's brands like Lulu Lemon and others, but men's is such a small part of their business. At the time, I think it was like 10%. So they're never going to focus the resources and the time and the energy that they need to. And when they do, it's going to be forced. And men want better product because the other thing that came out of this is right around the same time frame. I was wearing one of the free gifts that I had been given at the NFL from a big box active brand. and my wife said to me, that shirt smells. And I said, well, there's no way. I just washed it. And sure enough, I, you know, I did the sniff test and it did smell. I had worn this shirt kind of seven or eight times. And so I started researching because now I'm thinking about the industry, right? And I'm thinking about the active wearing industry. And my brother-in-law and I were emailing each other back and forth. And I find out that the

Starting point is 00:16:37 industry standard for odor and bacteria protection is 15 to 20 washes. That's what that's what the cutoff is and that most active and synthetic garments are treated with chemical based sprays, which are essentially pesticides to kill bacteria, but that they wash out and wear out over time. And after 20 washes, it's gone. And after one wash, you're kind of cutting down the amount. So we had contacted and found this company that had created an engagement. encapsulated silver thread. And the pitch was that this new technology, which somewhat ironically, was very similar to the technology that Lulu Lemon was using, would last for 50 plus washes. And we felt like, wow, you could, you know, two and a half times the industry average. And if there

Starting point is 00:17:27 was ever a market for people that needed odor and bacteria protection, it's guys who sweat. So now we're kind of formulating this idea. And that's when it starts. to come together. And, you know, kind of a footnote to that. We have since launched a new technology called Gold Fusion, which after 100 washes offers 98 plus percent protection against odor. So we've been able to kind of go above and beyond even the best players in the space where, you know, we think that our latest technology, there's nobody close to it in the market. And so what was your, what were your days like as you got it? launch. I know you were juggling between both. You were like having to pull all nighters and

Starting point is 00:18:12 managing that aspect of it. Can you share what it was like as you have a full-time job and you launched Roan for what was it about a year or longer before you you want full-time? Yeah, it was about a year. Actually, it was a little bit longer than that. So we started working on the idea February of 2013, really. Maybe there had been some some emails and and kind of certainly discussion during 2012, because that's when we were talking about it, ideating, but we really started like, I think we incorporated in February of 2013, like this is, we're going to do something. And so that was the year of doing a lot of product demoing. And you're right, it was, you know, I commuted into Manhattan. I live in Connecticut. And so I had an hour on

Starting point is 00:18:59 the train each way. And what I told myself is I would commit that hour each way to this idea. And if nothing came of it other than experience, that would be worth it. But if I could build something that was interesting, certainly my long-term goal was to build a company to go and run that could positively impact the world. So as the business started to develop and really kind of got later into 2013, it just became an obsession, really, and started to spend more and more time on it, weekends on it. And that's why it's, you know, in some ways, everybody should take my advice on routine with a grain of salt because at that time period, routine was any manageable waking moment I could bend on Roan, I would. Because I just loved the idea. And I really felt the other

Starting point is 00:19:53 powerful driving force for me was I felt like it had become taboo to talk about inspiring men to be great. In an age where female empowerment has become such an important topic and should be, men have, instead of engaging in that conversation for the most part, have started to retreat, almost out of maybe a guilt complex or something. And I don't think that that's an appropriate way of handling. I think that we all need to be rising to the occasion. We need to expect the best out of ourselves and that having great remarkable men and men who are principled will help dry female empowerment in an appropriate and healthy way. And so I felt like these two things were synergistic and it was important for me. I had, you know, at the time I had two sons. My wife and I now have

Starting point is 00:20:45 three sons. I grew up with three brothers, so four boys in our family. And so kind of inspiring men to be better men was something that was at the forefront of my mind too. And I'll remember the week, well, two weeks leading up to our launch, I was doing all of kind of the website work with an outsourced developer in Pakistan that I had hired on Odesk, which is now upwork. Yeah. It was terrible. It was not conducive to health or wellness, but it's what it took to really get it done. And I was really the only one on the team who had any digital background or operational experience. And so I was kind of staying up consistently until two to three in the morning, going to sleep,

Starting point is 00:21:33 waking up at six, going and getting on the train, and then working full day. And I was just, I was exhausted. And so kind of leading up to the launch, I'm type one diabetic. And so that means that I need to manage my insulin according to what the amount of carbohydrates that I eat. And so I was working late. I thought I had another kind of hour in me and felt like I needed to eat something. So I gave myself a dose of insulin, forgot about it, got kind of caught up in my work, and decided I was too tired to keep going.

Starting point is 00:22:09 So I went up and got in bed. And what happened was is that I went into diabetic seizures. I was shaking so violently that it shook the bed. My wife woke up, thankfully, called 911. They came in, rushed me to the ER, and I woke up in the hospital. had no idea how I had gotten there, by the way. I still have zero recollection of the night that transpired that, you know, has, will forever shake my wife's memories. And, you know, thankfully, I've recovered and everything was okay. And then the next week, my co-founder, my brother-in-law,

Starting point is 00:22:44 his kitchen caught on fire. And he and his family were forced to move out of their house. And so I remember us getting together kind of, you know, leading, I think we had two or three days to launch and we were like, wait a minute, do we really want to be doing this? You know, we both have good, full-time, well-paying jobs. He has four children. I think he had three at the time. I had two, but, you know, our families were an important part of our lives. And clearly this was creating an insane amount of stress. And it was really right then and there that we had to challenge ourselves and ask ourselves how committed we were to it. And we decided to move forward. And, you know, obviously I think that was the right decision, but it was not without its bumps or bruises or challenges.

Starting point is 00:23:28 What was it like? So you guys have done a good job of raising money. And this is, by the way, this is not a commercial for Roan. I mean, I think long-time listeners also know Nate. When I find something that I really like, whether it's a book, a product, a TED talk, my immediate thought is I want to find the person who did that, who started that, who created that, and then talk to him and ask him and learn from them directly. Like, that's just my natural and inquisitive nature, I guess. And so this is not, not meant to be a commercial, but I can't help because I love the stuff. But I'm curious now, you, I know you started, you had a lot of success right away. I mean, you sold a lot, moved a lot of product. And you also have, have successfully raised some funds. What's the fundraising process? Like,

Starting point is 00:24:13 what has that been? I want to, like, could you take me inside maybe one of those meetings? I know the Shane Badiye one, I read about that story where you actually, uh, you, you you know, you gave to him first, then he actually called you for a meeting and asked to invest. But I'm curious about the overall process, how you normally go to raise funds. Well, I think it, you know, it's very different. It's very difficult in the early stages when you don't have product and you don't have photography. You don't have anything other than an idea. But raising capital is much more of an art than it is a science.

Starting point is 00:24:50 And I would be, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't say, I was very fortunate that I had supportive friends who kind of believed in me and my co-founder. And we basically went out to friends and said, this is our idea. We'd put a PowerPoint deck together. And we'd said, we're, you know, we're putting capital up ourselves. But we would like for you guys to invest alongside us. And this was the pitch. We know nothing about apparel or fashion. We know a little bit about e-commerce.

Starting point is 00:25:24 So if you're going to invest, don't put any more money in than your spouse would get mad at you for if you lost it completely. And so we raise a lot of $5,000 and $10,000 checks from people. And that's, you know, that's not an insignificant amount of money. But for us, that's what got us off the ground. Now, once we had kind of, I think, $150,000 raise, that allowed us to take some chances on products and prototyping. We had some prototypes at the time, but very limited. And also the biggest key for us was photography.

Starting point is 00:26:03 As soon as we had photography of the product in action, people immediately got what we were trying to build. And for consumer-facing businesses, I always say to people, invest in good photography. and that was a big difference for us. So once we did that, we went out to bigger groups, people who really knew and had the ability to write bigger checks. And it starts to become a bit of a math game. So it's not dissimilar to e-commerce where it's, you know, you have to get people into the funnel.

Starting point is 00:26:40 So we had to have a lot of meetings. We had to have a lot of conversations of those people that we spoke to. there were some who were willing to kind of take a second meeting. And then of those people that took a second meeting, there were some who were willing to give a verbal commitment. And of those who gave a verbal commitment, there were some who were actually willing to write checks. And it's so much about momentum.

Starting point is 00:27:00 We were fortunate that, again, once we started developing the product and people got a sense for what we were trying to create, we became oversubscribed in the round that we were creating, and that allowed us to raise the capital that we needed to get started. And then when we went out to raise our series A, I always felt like it would be important to get visible, important people around the brand. But I knew that most entrepreneurs tend to approach those people as the first sources of capital. And I didn't want to do that because nobody wants to be the first one to go into any deal.

Starting point is 00:27:37 It's like being at a stoplight. Most cars aren't looking at when the light turns green. They're waiting for the car next to them to move. And investors can be a lot like that. It's not because, you know, you hear entrepreneurs say such derogatory things about investors. They're all stupid. They, you know, they're like herds. They just follow each other.

Starting point is 00:27:56 I don't mean that at all. In fact, most of the time, they're really smart. They're just very busy and they have a lot of things going on. And at these early stages, it's not their primary focus to invest in you. So they take others' interest as a sign of the fact that you. you're doing things right. So what I started to focus on was I asked people, I asked people questions in a way that wasn't so polarizing like, are you in or are you not? And I started saying, if you were to be interested in investing, how much would you be willing to invest? Great. And then I

Starting point is 00:28:34 kept a Google sheet full of all of the names of our potential investors and an amount they would be willing to invest. Once I knew that I had our round more than covered, that's when I went back and started asking for commitments from people. And everybody would say, well, where are you on your fundraising cycle? And we say, we have commitments for the full round. And if people feel that way, you know, they're much more likely to come in. And once we had, you know, gotten really three-fourths to two, maybe two-thirds, three-fourths of the way there, that's when I started going after real-named investors so I could tell them, hey, we've got the majority of the capital and this isn't about getting your money. This is about getting your influence. And I think that resonated with them.

Starting point is 00:29:17 And so we were able to get guys like David Stern and Ryan Rosillo, the radio host and Steve Bornstein, the former CEO of ESPN because they were not the first calls that we made. They tended to be the last calls. Really interesting. Yeah, in that story about Shane, I read about the fact that you look to help and give. first prior to asking for anything? Right. I mean, I did not have expectations of having him participate in investing. I had always been a fan of Shane. You know, and I'm a Knicks fan.

Starting point is 00:29:53 So that's saying something just about who he is, the way he carries himself. There are a lot of people that don't like the Miami Heat, and there are a lot of people that don't like Duke basketball, but there are very few people that don't like Shane Batier. He's just a classy, good guy. He's what we call. He's a remarkable man. And those are the kind of people we try and associate ourselves with. And so we got approached about an opportunity to outfit some celebrities for the South Beach Triathlon. And we got a list of people who were going to be there. And when I saw Shane's name on the list, I said, he's a Roan man. He's the Roan kind of guy. I'd love to outfit him. And they said, you know, all they ask is that you be willing to make a donation to their charity. Now, at the time, the amount that they asked, for was a lot of money for our business. It was a lot. And we kind of took a little bit of a flyer and said, you know, a chance and said, let's try it. Let's see where we go and where we get to.

Starting point is 00:30:51 And so the deal was that Shane was going to come to our booth. He was going to sign some autographs. He was going to talk to people. He was going to be wearing the product. And he did. He sat there in the booth. He signed autographs. And we kind of became friends and spoke about, you know, some of his career and just, you know, just got to know each other a little bit. And then he participated in the triathlon. He came back and he was like, Nate, I've been given free product my entire, you know, career. This is the best product I've ever had. You know, tell me about it. And so then we started talking about the product. And so I think I asked him at the time. I said, you know, I'd love to stay in touch with you. Do you mind sharing your email or cell phone? I kind of had to have that moment of courage to just ask for it.

Starting point is 00:31:36 And he was like, yeah, no problem. And he gave it. to me. And so I said to him, next time you're in New York, and that's the great thing about being close to New York, people are always coming here for something. Let me take you out to breakfast. I'd just love to get to know you better. And he said, actually, I'm coming up on these dates and I want to take you out to breakfast and I want to hear more about the company. So we went out to breakfast. We talked for, I think, an hour and a half. And he said, I'd like to invest. So it was pretty cool how it happened. We never kind of formally had to ask. It was somewhat proactive. Wow. So how much have you guys raised in total? So we've raised about

Starting point is 00:32:14 $8 million in total. Can you, for somebody who's not currently in that space, when you hear about raising money, how do you make decisions to how that money is spent? Like how do you, what's the process to make that happen with you and your team? Well, you know, I think I think the key for us has been not trying to do it in a dictatorship fashion. It's getting smart people around the table and asking very straightforward questions. Here's what our revenue targets are. What do you need to make this happen? If we wanted to do 20% more revenue, what additional capital needs would you have and we would need to allocate? And so it was a lot of kind of sitting down in strategic planning and understanding where we needed to spend. And

Starting point is 00:33:04 also understanding that in these early stages, there's going to be trial and error. And what entrepreneurs can be guilty of is being very pennywise and pound foolish in the early days where, you know, in order to try and make every penny go as far as possible, you don't try some things that you have to just to just to see if they work. And so we certainly aren't perfect at it. But, but it is something that we think a lot about is, you know, know, our uses, our uses of proceeds in capital. Are there any glaring mistakes that you can think of that? You said, man, we tried it, but it was just completely wrong.

Starting point is 00:33:45 And I wish I wouldn't have done that. Yeah. I mean, I think most of the outward sponsorship opportunities where there's been a cash component have not been a great return on investment. Now, there have been exceptions to that. You know, the Shane, Patty story is probably the best exception to that. But for the most part, I think cash-based sponsorships are very rarely return. Like what's an example of something like that?

Starting point is 00:34:20 Oh, you know, somebody's holding an event that there's going to be influential people there. And there's a title sponsor and a gold sponsor and a platinum sponsor. And it's this much in cash. And we, in some of our early days, we felt like, oh, we just need to get the brand out there. And there's going to be all these important people in the room. And our logo is going to be on the email. And I think, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to know whether or not those really directly returned. But I would say those have been less efficient uses of capital.

Starting point is 00:34:55 And, you know, I'm trying not to give just vague, ambiguous answers because I hate it when people do that. So I'm trying to give very specific that might actually help people. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't support local community events because we really try and do that. And when there's an opportunity to give back, those are the types of events where we say, okay, we're going to ease maybe some of our ROI restrictions here and focus on doing what's right. But there are, you know, there are events that aren't classified

Starting point is 00:35:26 as local community events for good things that, you know, And I just wouldn't fall victim to those types of cash sponsorship deals because let the big boys do that and spend their dollars that way. Yeah. Nate, I'd like to switch gears a little bit and talk more about you and your makeup and how you've grown into what you are. And I actually study this a lot when it comes to parents and the impact that they have on kids. I'm a dad as well just as you are. I have daughters and my, I come, I think both my mom and my dad were very successful and still are. And so I study that.

Starting point is 00:36:08 And so some people would say, hey, that gives you a leg up when you come from parents who have done really well for themselves. And your dad is Dave Checkett's, who was, I believe, at the age of 28 became the president and general manager of the Utah Jazz, which at the time, is that right? Yeah, youngest in history. Yeah, youngest in history, right? I'm pretty sure it's still a record. Yeah, and then he moved on to become the president of the Nix, as well as Madison, the CEO of Madison Square Garden. And so he's, you know, talk about somebody who's sustained excellence, and your dad, Dave, obviously has done that. And, you know, I was reading a story recently about Pablo Picasso and the, and the, the, the unfortunate aspect of Picasso.

Starting point is 00:36:55 So bear with me here. I'm getting to the point is the fact that his kids grew up to be complete nightmares. I believe one even committed suicide. They just were really just did not do a good job based on some of the wealth that their dad had made. I know that's in history, but I think it's good to study history when looking at ways to be successful in the future. And so what were some of the keys or maybe both the positives of growing up with a dad is successful? as yours is. I know for me it's a huge help because I can talk to him every day and I've read that you do too,

Starting point is 00:37:31 but what was that like? And how did he make sure that you guys still grew up with a great work ethic, even though from a financial perspective, I would imagine he could take care of you if he needed to. Yeah, you know, it's such a great question. I think it's a topic that people should be much more open about discussing. I always think, I always see people get surprised when I try and talk about this so openly because I think people tend to be guarded about it. And the reality is, any good thing that I do, you know, my parents will get some credit for and deserve every bit of it. There's no question in my mind that I have just been given so much. And just I'm incredibly fortunate to have the support and guidance, you know,

Starting point is 00:38:25 know, beyond being successful in the world, kind of having the values and the principles and the support and the backing and the love and confidence that they've given me, that's, you know, that's just far more important, but also really incredibly important to have a father who has a great network of people who like and respect him. And it makes it, it makes it easier to open doors. And I'd be foolish to not give him, you know, to not try an error. on the side of giving him more credit than people would want to attribute to him. I think he deserves every bit and more. I remember one time I was with him and he was talking about an individual who had a very successful father, but was kind of known as not being a hardworking individual. And he,

Starting point is 00:39:14 the statement he made about this person to a group at large was, you know, was something along the lines of he was born on third base and has convinced himself he's hit a triple. And I remember thinking to myself, I never want to be guilty of that. Because to a large degree, I feel like I was born on third base. I was given so much. I have five incredible siblings who are so supportive of me. I have great parents. And yes, I work hard. Yes, I try my best. And yes, I think I've done some good things. But, but, when I compare and contrast, when I meet entrepreneurs who really have come from so little, I always try and put them more into the spotlight because I, you know, I didn't have that path. I've been very, very fortunate. So with that kind of said, one of the things that I value most

Starting point is 00:40:12 about my parents was the way that they raised us. And, you know, I was an entrepreneur from a young because when I was 15, my parents came to us and they said, look, we signed you up for some sports camps and we've decided that we think you should pay half of your way for your camp. And so you should plan on getting a summer job and working and making some money so that you can attend the camp. We feel like, you know, it's important for you to do that. You'll value it more. So I started kind of mowing lawns in early spring and realized that I hated it and it wasn't an efficient

Starting point is 00:40:46 way and the only way it could scale was if I was able to duplicate myself and put myself in more places. So I decided instead to start a sports camp in my parents' backyard. And so we had kids come ages three to seven. We ended up changing it four to eight because I didn't realize that three-year-olds still had diapers. But we would teach them how to play soccer, basketball, and kickball, and we'd give them arts and crafts. And I, I'd give them. I was an Eagle Scout, so I had my life-saving merit badge and knew how to do CPR and hired friends and my two younger brothers to be my counselors. And that camp ended up running for eight years.

Starting point is 00:41:29 And at its peak, we were generating kind of like $40,000 over a four-week period as 16 and 17-year-olds. We were teaching swimming lessons. And I bought my first car with that money. I bought my wife's engagement ring with money that I made during that camp. and certainly, you know, I was fortunate to serve a two-year mission for my church, was able to pay for that with the proceeds that I got kind of running this camp. And so I think just kind of helping us realize the value of hard work was really, really helpful for us.

Starting point is 00:42:04 And, you know, again, I was fortunate that when I went to college, my dad said, look, I'll pay for your books and tuition, but everything else you're responsible for. So I worked for 85% of college, except for when my wife was working and I decided to focus kind of my last year on my core business. But one of the two of us always had a full-time job. And so that's been a valuable kind of lesson and ethic. And that's part of due to the way that my dad grew up. His father was a mobile home salesman. And he grew up having next to nothing, but had good principled parents.

Starting point is 00:42:43 who loved and supported him. And so, you know, it's hard. I think it's easy to feel entitled. I think it's easy to create, you know, to raise entitled children. But it's something that I think all of us need to guard against. How are you, how old are you, how old are you, five, and 18 months year old? So how are you incorporating what you've learned from your parents to be a dad yourself, to be a dad?

Starting point is 00:43:10 And obviously, you and your wife to be parents. Yeah, so one of the things that, and parenting is the most incredible job on planet Earth. And it is, and it's the great equalizer too, right? Because it doesn't matter if you are wealthy, poor, successful, not successful, the elements of parenting are there. They're rewarding. It's hard. It's challenging. It's emotional.

Starting point is 00:43:37 But it is such a great opportunity for personal growth and development and analysis. And so one of the things that my wife and I do is kind of going back to routine, we really believe in the sticker chart. So our kids have charts and, you know, they know that there are kind of five core jobs that they have to do every single day. They've got to make their bed. They've got to do their homework. They've got to practice their instrument. My five-year-old plays the drums, which is really awesome. And my eight plays the electric guitar.

Starting point is 00:44:11 And they don't have to practice for long. They practice, I think, for five minutes a day, but we're just trying to incorporate good habits in them. And we really try hard to kind of create habits and teach them about giving. But I think we're in the maybe second or third inning here. So hopefully I'll still be able to speak to this in a decade or so. So it's obvious that your work ethic was built from a young age that's led to your success. Do you think, was that that had to be developed?

Starting point is 00:44:51 Are you intrinsically just a motivated guy who just within you, you have this built-in work ethic? Or is that something that can be developed and learned? I mean, I think you could probably guess what I'm hoping your answer is, but I think it's still important for people. to hear what you think about this from some guy who comes from very successful parents who could take care of them if they wanted to. But to hear what it took or what it takes and what you do in order to have this sustained excellence. I think it's a bit of a combination, to be honest with you. And you know, you always hear growing up. You can't teach effort. And I do think that there's a part of me that was always born with both a curiosity and just a little bit of a drive. You know, I was one of the challenges,

Starting point is 00:45:47 and I say challenges probably with air quotes, because it's not a challenge and I shouldn't call it one, but, you know, having a father who worked in sports, people immediately assumed that I would be good at sports. And there were some sports that I naturally gravitated to, you know, football was kind of a sport that came much easier to me than basketball. But since my dad was involved with basketball, that was a sport everybody assumed I would be good at, and I was not good at basketball. I was, you know, I was kind of passable. I could make the travel team, but I was like, you know, I wasn't part of the starting five, might be six, seventh man in. And I remember my coach is telling me the reason you're here is because you outwork everyone. I was diving on the ground for

Starting point is 00:46:28 every loose ball. You know, I watched, I grew up watching Charles Oakley, and I decided, I decided like, well, you know, since I can't make every shot, I'm just going to have to outwork everybody. And so I do think part of that is intrinsic, but I also think that you can develop good habits. And if I didn't believe that people could change, you know, life would be a lot less meaningful. And so I do think you can teach good habits and good habits can create good results. And so, you know, I'd like to believe that people can always change. no matter where they are in their life, no matter how hard things have been or what mistakes they've made, that they can start to develop good habits and thus create good work ethic.

Starting point is 00:47:13 But, you know, it is, you do see kids who tend to naturally be harder workers, more driven than others. But, you know, I'm just not the type of person who bets against people and humanity. I like to bet on people and on humanity. I love it. I love to having to, you assume you go through life with a positive intent. try to tell people that when I get up on stage all the time. Like, it's just such a nicer way to live too, you know? I mean, it's so much more.

Starting point is 00:47:40 Exactly. Right. That's exactly what it is. It's just much more pleasant than to assume people are going to are out to do something bad. And if somebody burns you from time to time, so be it, you know. But I mean, to assume live life with a positive. And assuming people mean well, even if they make mistakes. Nate, two quick questions before we go.

Starting point is 00:47:58 I know we're, we got to go take off soon. One, is there a book that maybe you've very. read recently that you refer to people to say, hey, this is something you should read. Maybe if they're in the entrepreneur space or they're trying to build something, I'm curious to just something that you would share with my listeners. Yeah, there are quite a few books that have had an impact on me. You know, the one that I have always pointed to people is the seven habits of highly successful.

Starting point is 00:48:30 It's like, you know, it's almost antiquated at this point. I don't remember when the first version came out, but that thing is so dense with so much incredible information. And, you know, I had the privilege of actually meeting Stephen Covey one time. And for somebody who grew up meeting influential people, my wife told me she's like, I've never seen you so starstruck is when you met Stephen Covey. And that's because he had a profound impact on my life. So that's my all-time favorite go-to book.

Starting point is 00:48:59 I could read it once a year and I'd still get something out of it. And then my other kind of more recent favorite is how habits work by Charles Duhigg. And it is, it's a terrific read. And again, kind of analyzes the habit loop and how to create positive habits that are meaningful. And it's just something I clearly think about, maybe way too much. But so those are the two. And then, you know, I'll give a small plug for a fiction series that I'm, in love with right now called Red Rising.

Starting point is 00:49:35 It's a trilogy. So every once in a while, I'll read some fiction to kind of help keep the creative side of open. And that's one of my recent favorites. Yeah, I love reading fiction on airplanes for some reason, but that's great. And then one last question, Nate, when you got a cold email from a guy who runs a podcast called The Learning Leader Show, and you specifically saw that phrase, learning leader. What was the first thought that came to mind?

Starting point is 00:50:03 Uh, you know, I do, I love the idea of being an eternal student. So I, I will say with fresh ears and maybe kind of fresh thoughts that I like the idea of, of learning and the idea of learning from successful people. Uh, and so, you know, I'm, I'm frankly flattered and an honor to be considered a worthy guest to be on the show. Well, definitely you are. And I really appreciate it. So thank you. you so much for being here. Nate, where would you send my listeners to learn more about you online? I come to the website, roan.com, R-H-O-N-E-D-com. Perfect. Thanks again, Nate. I look forward to us absolutely continuing this dialogue as we both progress, man. Of course. I really appreciate it. It's great getting to know you a little bit better, Ryan. Great. Thanks, Nate. Okay, talk soon. Bye. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until

Starting point is 00:51:02 next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again and we'll see you next time on the Learning Leader Show. Pump for our new sponsor this year, it's Fresh Books. The working world has changed with the growth of the internet. There's never been more opportunities for the self-employed. Send, FreshBooks is excited to announce the launch of an all-new version of their cloud accounting software. It's been redesigned from the ground up and custom built for exactly the way you work. Get ready for the simplest way to be more productive, organized, and most importantly, get paid quickly.

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The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 194: Nate Checketts - CEO Of Rhone: Leaving Comfort To Make An Impact

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