The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 209: Jason Redman - The Power Of Humility: From A Wounded Navy SEAL

Episode Date: June 11, 2017

Episode 209: Jason Redman - The Power Of Being Humble: From A Wounded Navy SEAL Sustained Excellence = Humility... Re-learning how to humble yourself.  Arrogance can ruin you The story of Jay being "ripped in to" by a leader after he made a mistake that could have costs lives... And how that impacted him "Great leaders take a step back... To analyze what happened" "There are no bad teams, just bad leaders" "You have to allow the situation around you to develop before making a decision" How Ranger school helped him stop being selfish, humbled him. Forced to lead in adverse situations, and stop thinking about just himself Story: "I am bleeding out. I can feel my life ebbing away as blood seeps from my body into the Iraqi soil..." "I was hit in the face and my left arm..." How the preparation and training saved his life "If facing death, you won't be thinking about material things" The sign Jay hung up outside his hospital room The Key Tenants Lead Always Overcome All "That journey in the hospital taught me... If you are a leader, lead always" Building mental resiliency, must build an overcome mindset "The woman behind The Trident" -- How his wife Erica acted was heroic (and still is) "She never batted an eye" "When they sent me home, I was a mess, and Erica cared for me.  She was never negative, never questioned me for going to war." The greatest natural leader Jay ever met -- Vince Peterson He always led by example, would never ask you to do something he wouldn't do He lost his leg below his knee "Selfless, servant leader, humble" -- Motivated and inspired you to be better Always remained calculated -- Had the ability to drive the team where it needed to go Took ideas from members of the team, dynamic leadership at it's best Listen as Jay describes how Dave Michaels was shot 27 times, fought back... And then said, "Come get me... They're all dead." The Overcome Academy A way for us to give back to veterans www.OvercomeAcademy.org Social Media: Follow David on Twitter: @JasonRedmanWW Read: The Trident Connect with me on LinkedIn Join our Facebook Group: The Learning Leader Community To Follow Me on Twitter: @RyanHawk12

That journey in the hospital taught me a very interesting lesson. And it taught me the idea behind the lead always principle. You can lead from any situation. And if you are a leader, people are looking to you for leadership. And sometimes we sell ourselves short for the impact of our actions. And something as small as being in a hospital bed and staying positive and engaging the people that come in is still leadership. So that sign is really an engagement. example of leadership. And if anything, I tell people you've got to lead yourself. If anything,

that sign initially was for me. It was a statement for me. And it was a proclamation that I will not feel sorry for myself. I'm going to drive for it. I'm going to make a recovery. Hey, and welcome to The Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. It is Mindful Monday. Go to LearningLeader.com. Enter your email address. Receive an email every Monday morning, 9 o'clock Eastern with latest trends, articles, thoughts, videos on growth, learning. We can have dialogue back and forth, which is one of my favorite parts about doing this. So learning leader.com enter your email address. Now on to tonight's episode with American Hero, Jason J. Redman, a U.S. Navy SEAL, founder of

the nonprofit organizational titled Wounded Wear, also the author of an unbelievable book, The Trident, and reforging of a Navy SEAL officer. What an emotional, wide-ranging conversation. I absolutely loved it. A few of the topics. The most important decision you will make in your life that determines success or failure. Then how Jay had to relearn to be humble,

followed up by the sign that Jay hung outside his hospital door after being shot in the face and arm. and the impact it had on others going all the way up to the President of the United States. Also, shout out, thank you to my friend Brent Scherz for all of the detailed research to help me prepare for this episode. It was incredible. Ladies and gentlemen, you will love this one. I know I do with Jay Redmond. You are like me, a student of leadership.

You've created this great blog about our podcast about leadership. I mean, what led you down that road and what, I mean, what's, you? continue to fuel that fire. I mean, usually people who are into leadership, you know, they're, who knows, you know, heads of companies or, you know, and so it's, I think it's unique and neat that you have, you know, focused on this. I appreciate that. I, um, it's interesting. So I, my background's in sports. And when you get done playing sports, it's, it's, it's not fully relatable to the military. You actually go to battle, whereas we use metaphors and saying football is battle but you get done and you need to find some way to utilize what you've learned and try to get

that adrenaline high back and it's really hard so I moved into the profession of selling because it's it's it's got some similarities meaning we all kind of start at the same starting line and the ability to work and outwork my competitors and some colleagues and co-workers could give me the best opportunity to be successful and if you are successful then sometimes it gives you a chance to progress, right, and to lead others. And that's what's happened to me. And then about three years ago, I got my MBA and then I was considering getting a PhD. And I just looked at some of the curriculum and I liked maybe 30, 40 percent of it. And I thought, what if I just reached out and spoke with my leadership heroes and then recorded it so I could have it? I could

take notes, like I told you, I'll be doing this entire conversation, take notes. But then I'm like, well, I could also publish that for other people to be positively impacted. And so that's that's why, and I love podcasts too. So I listen to podcasts all the time. I thought I could do that. I've interviewed a lot of people for my regular work in the leadership of salespeople. So I thought if I could use some of that skill that I picked up along the thousands of interviews I've done for that, plus the fact that I just am, I think inquisitive, have a curious nature. And I love learning from people who have sustained excellence, who have done things like, most of the guys aren't like heroes like you, but they've done some pretty impressive things in their space.

And so it's always a cool mix to see the, whether it's the Simon Seneca leadership guys versus the J. Redmond guys who are legit heroes. I've had a few other military guys, Nate Boyer, Jason Van Camp, Jimmy Hatch. I'm sure you know some of those guys. Yeah, absolutely. And my brother, AJ, as I know you guys know, just talked to Rob O'Neill again. And so we have this love, I think, and this really this admiration of people who have kind of laid their life on the line like you have. And so that's why there's leaders and then there's the military leaders.

And it's kind of different buckets for me because I have leadership heroes because of the stuff they've written, the people. they've led, the businesses that they've created and built. And then there's that other bucket where it's like the legit people who are, who have, who have, like I said, laid their life on the line like you have. So that's, that's what it's all about. I've done 200 plus now for two and a half years. And it's, and it doing more just fuels me to want to do more and more and more. And then getting the feedback, as I'm sure you receive and have received, it just blows me

away, man. Like when people email you out of the blue where I was in the gym yesterday and this guy's like, I'm going for this promotion and I binge listened to 18 episodes over the last like few days and I feel so much more ready. I'm going to get this. I know it. I mean, that stuff,

you know, that's incredible. It's an unbelievable feeling to, to have that happen. So that's why I'm fueled to continue to do it, to reach out to guys like you and say, hey, man, let's,

let's see what we can share, how we can potentially help people. And selfishly, it helps me. I mean, I've learned so much through having these conversations with, with great leaders over the, over the years that it's kind of sped up my learning because I'm,

I'm forced to really prepare. And then obviously the conversations and the after effects of the notes and things like that. So that's what it's all about, man. It's awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it. That's great. I appreciate it.

It's funny. I'm like interviewing you. Do it. No. Who's been the person that's, you know, and I know, and I know there's probably a tough question, you probably have at least 10 in your head. But, you know, if you can think of the one person who. really, when you finish that interview, you were like, wow.

I mean, that was just amazing to talk about, you know, a wealth of information. Yeah. It's almost an impossible question. But I will say there's a leader by the name of Kat Cole who most people had not heard of. And she started as a Hooters waitress when she was 17 and had risen the ranks. And it's now the president of Focus Brands, which owns like six different restaurants. And her story in the way that she was able to understand why she'd been successful is really impressed me. And I love Kat.

And the way that she brought it and talked about curiosity and confidence and courage. And she's different. Like I said, she's certainly not a military guy. But like I said, the military guy is when I talk to Jimmy and he's describing the mission to go get Bo Bergdahl and his leg getting shot, I mean, we'll probably have some similar talk with you. But like those are a different level. but Cat still sticks out and it was a year and a half ago

when we talked just because I'm not saying I was surprised but I just was blown away from the start to finish of her whole story so it was pretty fun it was nice that's awesome I'm gonna look her up yeah you should you should so I mean let's just

get right into it man like I already I've hit record you know minutes ago so we'll just we'll go and I appreciate you being like humble enough and curious enough to ask those questions as we get rolling here, but your story and AJ and I have talked about you a lot since you went on his show. It's been some time now. And I said, I really want to talk to Jay at some point. I've read your book.

And friends of mine said, you've got to talk to Jay. He's, he's unbelievable the way that he, what he's come through. And so the first thing I think of, I would love for you to talk about is, is take us back to the beginning as to why you initially said, I think the military is for me. and why you went for that route at a very young age? Yeah, I mean, that wasn't a no-brainer for me. It was a pretty easy decision. I had come from a family of military members. So I've been raised in a really patriotic environment.

I mean, born in Ohio, grew up in that area, you know, and my grandfather had fought in World War II. Both grandfathers had fought in World War II. My great uncle had been killed in World War II. my grandfather, my dad's dad, he was a highly decorated B-24 pilot, earned the Distinguished Flying Cross, and a number of air medals. So my dad served during Vietnam. He didn't go over to Vietnam, but he served during Vietnam.

He was a airborne instructor and a rigor, and he had met some seals. They had gone through a jump school with him. So that's how I got introduced in SEAL teams when I was about 14 years old. he told me about the seals. So I think for everybody in our family, we grew up in this family of service. And from a very young age, it's all I wanted to do. And I kind of bounced from different things within the military. When I was younger, I wanted to be a pilot like my grandfather, and I was infatuated with jets.

And then, you know, probably about 11, 12 years old, I got caught up in the whole G.I. Joe genre and started really getting excited about ground operations. and I was, you know, green berets and rangers and, you know, snake guys, you know, the special operations guys and all that. And like I said, my dad told me about the SEAL teams when I was about 14. I'd never heard of them. You know, this was mid-80s at that time. There was really nothing out there about the SEAL teams back then. So I just started looking everywhere I could and I couldn't find much.

A guy in our church was a real big military. military and special operations buff. And he had some magazines that actually talked about the seal teams that he loaned me. And that really lit my fire. And, you know, from about the age of 15, I said, this is what I'm going to go do and started training. You know, kind of funny, I'm not a big guy. You know, I'm 5'8.

And back then, you know, God knows I was probably 5 feet tall and weighed 95 pounds. And so, yeah, what I tell people I was going to be a seal, they, you know, just laughed at me. But, you know, I think that's the big thing about dreams, you know, people who truly go after their dreams, people who believe, they believe unequivocally. And it doesn't matter what people say to you, you go after it. And I think that's the difference between people who achieve their dreams and people who let others talk come out of it. You know, so if this 95-pound kid can go become a seal, you know, anybody can accomplish their dreams. And that's how I ended up going down that road.

And, but there, there were bumps along the way. I mean, you talk about, you talk about humility as a leader. And you, you model that behavior to start this conversation, right? Most people are just kind of sitting back waiting to be interviewed and you're curious and want to know about me, which is just, I think, speaks volume about, it's much different. And there's nothing against people who don't do that, but I mean, it just means a lot to me. And it shows some of the, the true humility, not like this false sense of it, but like, it's, It's like putting into action.

But you didn't necessarily always have that. It sounds like, and from what I've read, obviously, you've had to develop the ability to be humble. Can you share maybe a story or talk about how ego got you in trouble and how you were humbled along the way? Because I think this relates to, this can relate to leaders in all walks of life in the business world and sports, certainly in the military, where you can be something. times necessarily humbled and how that can help your development.

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And, you know, you said you had to learn to be humble. I don't know if it's necessarily I had to learn to be humble. I had to re-learn how to be humble because if you view life, I think all of us, it's a bell curve in some ways. And, you know, I grew up in a very religious family, a very patriotic family. So I knew about being humble. But I lost that along the way.

I think that's, I think that happens a lot. I'm sure there's no doubt, Ryan, you and your brother have seen it in the football world. When any, any level of elite performance, there is a natural tendency because you're at such a high level to start to believe a little too much in your own greatness. And it's easy to get caught up in that. And the SEAL teams are no different. We definitely have guys, and I was one of when I was younger, that bought in. it and got a little caught up in, you know, the genre and this, you know, this, this elite level of the SEAL teams.

And I was doing well. I mean, I was excelling. I was moving into leadership positions. And, you know, all of that kind of bled together for a little bit of a perfect storm with my own arrogance, really, as a young leader and thinking I knew everything and not necessarily listening to the advice as others. which is the benchmark of a good leader, you know, relying on the people within his team

and relying on those people to make the right decisions because I don't care who you are if you're Jack Welch, you know, any of our great leaders that are out there, you don't have all the answers. You know, good leaders rely on people around them, and I didn't. And all of that kind of came to a head as a brand new officer. And there were just a number of bad decisions that I had made. And I talk to people now.

One of the big focuses I talk about is, you're going to be a leader, you've got to lead always. You have to lead you. It starts with leading yourself. And then that, you know, once you can lead yourself, people will automatically start to follow you. And then it makes it easier. But it starts with leading yourself, because every decision you make impacts your credibility as a leader. So if they're bad decisions, if you're that guy that's going out, you're burning it down every night in the bars and you're just a sloppy mess, how are people going to look at you and say, well, that's the guy I want to follow. So decisions like that start to compound, especially people start to blend that together

even when you're in the work environment. And all of that kind of blended together to a tipping point when I made a bad decision on a combat operation in Afghanistan. And I had had a lot of friction. I've been drinking heavily. I've been doing a lot of dumb things that didn't help as a leader. And all those things came together. What happened? So we were on an operation in southern Afghanistan. It was an operation to sweep through a valley where a very, very dense, densely occupied enemy terrain. Every unit that had gotten in there had gotten into a firefighting. These guys were so audacious.

They were actually firing at U.S. aircraft, which is, you know, lunacy because, you know, the big guns in the sky. You know, the Taliban and Al Qaeda don't have air assets. So most of the times they run and hide when our air assets come over. So, you know, you're a whole level of both brave and stupid when you start firing an aircraft. But the other thing, they knew they had all these tunnel networks there. So they knew they had the ability to fire, you know, be brazen and then duck back into their tunnel to be protected. So we went in there to sweep through this valley and root these guys out. And we were going through and blowing up these tunnels.

I was in an Overwatch position as the main assault force went through. So we were up above snipers. We had a rocket crew in case we had any vehicles. And guys on the ground got in a big firefight. A couple of guys got dinged, and they were calling for reinforcements. And my team in the Overwatch position we were in was the furthest forward. And I made a snap decision to go down into that valley with my machine. machine gunner to try and augment that force on the ground. Now, for people out there that have

no military background, I'm sure there's a lot that think, oh, wow, that was awesome. You're so brave. The problem is, you know, there are a lot of very complex problems going on in this firefight, and I did not take the time. We have a saying in the military, and I tell people this in business also. You have to allow the battlefield to develop. You have to allow the situation around you to develop before you could make a decision. If you make a snap decision, you could be making a decision before you have all the information. And that's exactly what happened in this situation. Our leadership was pushing air assets overhead, you know, jets that can drop bombs or gunships or helicopter with guns that could come in and provide support for our guys on the ground. And when I made the

decision to take my machine gunner and go down there, it was a hasty decision. There was also a decision. There was also a decision that was driven by my own personal feelings, I guess, if you will. My own personal desire to try and, you know, I saw this as an opportunity to make myself look like a good leader. You know, hey, look at me. I'm willing to rush into the fight and we don't help our guys. But it ended up being a very bad decision. So when I pulled down off that cliff, we now were moving. we had guys on the ground moving

and when the aircraft came overhead we have to know where every single person is on the battlefield so that we don't drop bombs or bullets on friendly people and when I made that decision they didn't know where we were when we dropped off

we didn't have good communications with the leadership so it created almost a 30 minute window of delay for them to be able to drop these bombs to be able to protect our guys on the ground so thank God that nobody was injured or killed during that 30 minute delay.

If they had, this story would be a lot different. But the bottom line is I got to the other, you know, we got to the bottom of the valley. We got communications again. The ground force commander called me and basically, you know, very bluntly said, get your ass out of the valley. We're trying to bring in air support. We scampered up to the top of the cliff. And this is where this is where the story kind of turned.

And I think with any good leader, you know, you have to take internal responsibility for all decisions. Leif Babin and Jaco Willink wrote a great book called Extreme Ownership. And you should read it right after you read my book. I've read them both. That's right. Yeah. But Jayco and Lave talk about the title of their book, Extreme Ownership.

So good leaders own all decisions they make, good or bad. And when I got out of that valley, needless to say, the ground port. commander ripped me apart. And instead of saying, you know what, you're right, I made a bad decision. I fought back. And I said, I made the right decision. You know, I ran to the sound of the guns. I went down to support my brothers who were a firefight. And of course, he laid out all the reasons why it was a bad decision. There were a myriad of bad tactical decisions involved with my decision, but I refused to hear it. And that kind of started a domino effect where I had several people where all those bad decisions of the past that I was talking about, where if you're

going to be a leader, you've got to lead always. So staying out late, drinking with the boys, impacting my credibility. You know, minor poor decisions all culminated with this bad call on the battlefield in my refusal to accept responsibility for that bad decision. So it kind of brought me to a nexus where I had guys that were hunting, they wanted my head. And they wanted me kicked out of the SEAL teams. They wanted my trident taken. They basically said, you know, you're not a good leader. You know, you're a bad operator because you make bad decisions

and put guys' lives at risks. And, you know, I went down, and it took a long time to come to grips with that. I continued to fight it. I continue to fight it and just say, ah, this is a witch hunt. You guys are throwing me on the bus. us and all this other BS lies that we tell ourselves, you know, good leaders take a step back out of the situation. They evaluate everything about it. And they ask themselves, you know, is this really external factors? And I can tell you right now with almost 100% certainty, 95% of the

times when things go wrong, it's a leadership problem, not a team problem. There are no bad teams, they're just bad leaders. And I, in that situation, have been a bad leader. And I was fortunate enough, I had some leaders who believed in me and said, you know what, you know, 95% of the time this guy square away makes good decisions. He's just arrogant. We need to humble him. We need to show him the ramifications of his decisions could lead to guys dying. And so there were a series of punishments, growth, growth activities that they gave me to humble myself. And one of those was, you know, for a military officer, if you get a letter of reprimand in your record, it's the end of your career. You're done. You'll never make rank again. So they basically wrote a letter of reprimand,

but they didn't put it in my military service record. They wrote it, they showed it to me, and they put it in the commanding officer safe. And they basically said, you're going to do another platoon and as a leader. And this letter will stay. And if you make any bad decision, if you show any demonstrations of anything but superior sustained performance, this letter will go in your service record. And it'll end your career. So there was that.

and then they sent me a U.S. Army Ranger School, which is kind of interesting. A lot of people always ask me about that. Why'd they send you a Ranger School? You know, Ranger School is a leadership school at its heart and soul. And whether you are a senior officer,

which they've had a few senior officers go through, or you are a low private, straight out of boot camp, everybody's treated the same in Ranger School. You don't wear any rank, and everybody rotates through leadership positions. And then they add in, of course, adversity and lack of food and lack of sleep and hard conditions. But that Ranger School is designed for you to lead in those adverse conditions. And more than anything, it teaches you to stop thinking about yourself and to think about the mission and the people around you despite everything you have going on.

And I really, Ranger School was something I really needed at that time in my life because it humbled me. And it honestly, it made me take a step back and realized that I wasn't this great. leader that I thought I was. You know, I wasn't, you know, Achilles, the warrior. I had a lot of flaws. And there were flaws that I needed to fix. And the very first thing that I needed to do was supremely humble myself and start listening to the team and guys around me. And that whole journey occurred at Ranger's School and really changed my outlook on how I led and how I carried myself for the future. Are you cool if I read a quote from your book and then you expand on it and maybe take the story a little bit further?

Yeah, absolutely. I have about 50 of these. So we're going to get to a fraction of them, even though I'd love to get to them all, but we have lives to live. So we'll start at the beginning because I think some of the story progression of what I'd like to go to, I think would start here. So a quote,

I am bleeding out. I can feel my life ebbing away as blood seeps from my body into the Iraqi soil. You take it from there. So that was the, so we, you know, if you take it from the end of Ranger school, fast forward two years, I was in Iraq. It had been a very successful deployment.

I had really redeemed myself as a leader and had really come back. and come to understand what it is to lead and lead in combat. And it was a very, very active combat deployment. And we were on the tail end of that deployment. We were literally only a couple of weeks from coming home. And I was actually leading the team on a take-down operation, a capture-kill operation to go after an Al-Qaeda leader. We had been hung on that whole deployment.

And we basically walked into a very well-executed Al-Qaeda ambush. And I got stitched across the body, two rounds and the left, arm and I caught around in the face and I was pinned down in front of my guys. The only point of cover that we had was like a big John Deere tractor tire behind us. It was all an open field behind that. And I was pinned down out front, multiple machine guns, multiple, you know, probably, we're not sure exactly how many 10 to 15 guys that had us had six guys pinned down. With me, literally pinned down in between the tire and the enemy fighters, which were about 45 feet away. So that line, to this day, I'm not exactly sure how long the firefight is.

All of us kind of estimate that it was probably about 35 minutes, which when you are at point blank range with bullets, 35 minutes is an eternity, you know, especially with big machine gun bullets coming at you. And yeah, that was kind of the moment that I realized I probably, I didn't think I was going to make it out of there. You know, it was a really bad situation. What could possibly be going through your mind? Is it like, is it practical?

Like, let me get this tourniquet on my arm. Is it, is it like other moments of feeling helpless? Is it moments of saying somebody, please like I remember Jimmy telling me like he was just yelling and screaming and like he's just said he was he's embarrassed about it now but he just went crazy like are all those things I mean 35 minutes is forever I mean it's long to do anything let alone being you know at point blank range with bullets flying so I mean what all emotions are going through your head after even hit in the face your your your arm is basically almost blown off I know you talked about you

get the turnicet set up I mean what what emotions are going through your mind at a moment like that. So the emotions, at the very beginning, it was all operationally focused. So, you know, how can we fight back? You know, where are the guys? How do I get to turn it? I mean, after you got shot, that was the first thoughts of like, okay, let's just, I'm just like kind of practically thinking like what do I need to do next, like systematically?

Yes. Through the pain. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Go ahead. But a lot of that is training. You know, it's no different, you know,

you guys learned in sports you know repetition you know Malcolm Gladwell talks about you know if you do thing you know the tipping point if you do things 10,000 times it starts to become muscle memory

and that's where you're really achieving excellent it's no different with what we do we train so much and so often and such a hard intensity that even in you know a crazy situation like that where you're being shot at you still go back to the basics

which are, okay, let me take a step back and figure out what's going on here. What are the next steps we need to take? So for me, that's exactly what it was. I mean, because I've done it on so many other operations and I've done it in training at this point, it became, okay, where are my guys? What's our headcount? Where, you know, where's the fighting coming from? How can we address it?

What can I do to help? Obviously, as I went through this mental thought process, the first thing I thought was, okay, if I don't get a tourniquet on, I'm probably going to bleed out and die. and nobody can come up here and get me because they're going to have to run into this hail of bullets. So that became my first priority. And I think in any situation in life, that's what you have to do, whether it's business, your personal life, sports, you know, we all get bombarded with a whole bunch of information, especially in a chaotic situation.

And you have to quickly evaluate all those things and say, okay, what is the absolute most important right now? That's what I need to address. So for me, that became my tourniquet. because I quickly realized, okay, if I bleed out and die, I'm not helping anyone, especially myself. So that became my focus and trying to get my turnicant on. And I was losing a lot of blood. So I quickly hit a point where I was super weak. I couldn't even get my turnicent on because I couldn't break those rubber bands.

And then, you know, that thought process, as I lost more and more blood and I lost the ability to function, I lost the ability to think straight. My mind did start to wander and think, okay, you know, this is it. I don't think I'm getting out of this situation. I think I may, this may be my time. And then my thoughts drifted to my family. And this is one of the big things that I talk to people about. You know, in this life we live, you get one shot.

I am very fortunate. I got a second chance. And I can tell you right now that if you have the luxury of face, your own death for all the things we try to accumulate in life you are not going to think about any of that stuff if you're facing death you're not going to think about how awesome your truck is in your motorcycle you're not going to be wondering how much money is in your bank account right now hopefully you have friends and family that you're built around you and you are going to think about man I wish I

just had a couple more minutes to you know tell them I love them and spend you know just God I can give anything for 10 30 more seconds So my thoughts kind of drifted there. And then my final thoughts were anger. I got pissed off. The fact that I had allowed us to get in this situation, even though we had done things according to our tactics, it still ticked me off.

And then that the enemy had gotten the drop on us. So it kind of went full circle. And then, you know, I called out the God. And I said, hey, I need backup here. I don't think I'm going to make it. And, you know, whatever your religious beliefs, Leavesar, something happened that night because I went from not being able to move a muscle to I had the power and the strength to get up. And by the time the firefight ended, I got up,

I walked to the helicopter. I got on and I managed to get out of there and stay a lot long enough to get to the operating room and them saved my life. Wow. In the hospital, this is where you've also made a name for yourself. You talk about it a lot. But it's a story that, I'd be remiss if I don't talk about it and mainly for the sign that you hung up when you were recovering. And I think for my listeners who are, you know, just learning about you, this is an important part. So as of, I believe it was 2012, you'd undergone 37 surgeries, had over 1,200 stitches, 200 staples, skin grafts all over. You know, like I said, you were shot in the face and your arm, your arm is almost gone. And so people were visiting you in the hospital.

And it sounds like, and I'll let you tell the story, but I do want to read what your sign said if you're cool with it. And this is the sign that you hung up outside of your room, which went on to be pretty famous because President George W. Bush found out about it. But this is what it said. It says, attention to all who enter here. If you are coming into this room with sorrow or to feel sorry for my wounds, go elsewhere.

The wounds I received I got in a job I love. doing it for people I love, supporting the freedom of a country I deeply love. I am incredibly tough and will make a full recovery. What is full? That is the absolute utmost physically. My body has the ability to recover. Then I will push that about 20% further through sheer mental tenacity. This room you are about to enter is a room of fun, optimism, and intense rapid regrowth.

If you are not prepared for that, go. elsewhere. How did you write that in that moment? There wasn't a lot of thought that went into it. It was really spur of the moment. I had somebody come into the room that was expressing a lot of pity over what had happened to me. And when they left, I wrote to my wife. I couldn't talk. All I could do was right because my trick, my jaw being wired shut. And I just said, hey, never again. Never again. is somebody going to come into my room feeling pity for what happened to me because I refuse to feel sorry for myself. And I penned out that sign. I didn't think anything about it. That sign is,

it just was a spur of consciousness, I guess, in the moment. And I said, hey, we're going to hang this on the door. Anybody that comes in the room has to read this before they come in. And of course, it started to take on a life of its own. People took pictures. It went viral. and it went all over the place. I always love to come back when we talk about the sign. There are two key principles that I live by more than anything else. When I speak to companies, I speak on two sets of learning points. One is the five principles of elite performers and the others is the six tenets of success.

The five principles are more team focused. The six tenets are more individual focused. the two key principles, tenants, they overlap in both. They're each and both are in the five principles, both are in the six tenants. And that's lead always and overcome all. And that sign is the epitome of that message. Because one of the things that I came to learn, you know, in this incredible leadership journey I've been on, to be from the bottom of the barrel with everything that happened in Afghanistan and then to go to Rainier's score.

to have to build myself back up and then, you know, success in Iraq and then suddenly to be severely wounded, that journey in the hospital taught me a very interesting lesson. And it taught me the idea behind the lead always principle. You can lead from any situation. And if you are a leader, people are looking to you for leadership. And sometimes we sell ourselves short for the impact of our actions and something as small as being in a hospital bed and staying positive and in engaging the people that come in is still leadership. So that sign is really an example of leadership. And if anything, I tell people you've got to lead yourself. If anything, that sign initially was for me. It was a statement for me. And it was a proclamation that I will not feel sorry for myself. I'm going to drive for it.

I'm going to make a recovery. I'm, you know, I did these, you know, I'm not going to second guess what happened because I believe in the reason why I was out there fighting. And that is really the essence of this idea of leading always. And then the second principle, of course, is that mental resiliency, that mental tenacity. And I believe that is more important than anything else you have in your life. I mean, I talk to people. You know, you can strive to be a better leader. You can try and put together a better team. You can spend all this time on a better plan.

All those things are important. But if you cannot build an overcome mindset, if you cannot build that mental grit, then none of that stuff really matters because you can be the best leader in the world, you can have put together the greatest team, and you could have a best plan. And guess what? Things will go wrong. Things are going to happen. You know, you're going to get shot in the face and end up at a hospital.

Hopefully you don't end up at a level like that. But you will have your own equivalent of a catastrophic event. And the difference between those who are successful and those who are not are the ones who are willing to lead themselves, who are willing to lead always despite the situation and who are willing to overcome all. And that sign is the, in my opinion, the epitome of that. Man, I love it. Can we talk about the woman behind the Trident? Yeah, absolutely.

So Erica helped me, your wife, helped help put this together for us today. And she obviously has played a hero role in this story as well. And you talk about how you felt it was going to be after she came and saw you and what was going to happen when you came back. And you even, I think you mentioned, you feel kind of shame about the fact that maybe you thought she would want to leave you after. And her response, which shows her leadership and her heroic, was love. And was not thinking about leaving you. It was about supporting you and being there for you. And so it was neat for me as a, you know, as a reader, as a fan, as somebody who looks up to, you know, what you've done and what she's done to have the correspondence actually with her as we were putting this conversation together.

So can you talk about your thoughts and the power of that love with with the woman behind the Trident, your wife, Erica? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I encourage everybody to find your soulmate, your companion in life, because in the hardest times, it makes the biggest difference. Because all of us have mental weakness. I don't care how tough you develop your overcome mindset. You know, there are times when you're going to question yourself, and there are times where you're going to go through hard periods and having people like that make the difference. And Erica, I am just blessed to have had her and to have her. I mean, with everything that we went through, she never batted an eye.

And, you know, and you're right, that moment, you know, people often ask me, you know, oh, what was the hardest or the, you know, scariest moment and everything that you went through and all the combat and training and everything else? And it was by far traveling home before I saw her. I was so terrified what would happen when I saw her, you know, would she stay? You know, mentally you're in a top place. You're on drugs. You're obviously mangled. So, you know, the power of true love and somebody who believes in you was amazing. She exhibited that to the highest level.

And it continued. You know, when they sent me home, I was mess. You know, I'm wired shot, I'm traked. I've got a stomach tube. I'm in a wheelchair. I've got, you know, pieces of metal extending out of my body all over the place. And all the, you know, open wounds. and Erica cared for me.

You know, she was, even though I had an at-home nurse that came, you know, I think every day or every other day, you know, Erica was the one that was really taken care of me. And if anybody's ever had a trick, they're disgusting. That was the worst thing. And, you know, it had to be clean regularly. And Erica would do that. And if she had ever, at any point had said, I hate your job, why did you do this? You know, why did you do this to our family? I think it would have crushed me.

You know, I was trying to be positive and stay upbeat. And if she had ever done that, I think that would have really been tough. And she never did. She never had a negative thing to say. Always upbeat, always positive. So I believe in the power of positive thinking. I believe your attitude will determine the outcome. And Erica has been an amazing extension of that in my beliefs.

I mean, I truly believe she's my soul. homemate, we, you know, we just agree on just about everything. And she's as strong as I am. And it's a tribute not only for her, but to all the military spouses that are out there, what they go through, the spouses of our wounded warriors. I have seen some, you know, husbands and wives that are out there that have supported their spouse through these catastrophic events. And it even extends far into the civilian world, you know, those who have gone through

super you know catastrophic injury or cancer and that family member that spouse is right there next to I'm carrying them along and that's why I said it's so important to find the right person you know don't rush into a relationship make sure they're the right one uh because I tell you what lean on them take care of them because in the hard times you know they'll be there for you and make the difference it's interesting when I'm sure you get people asking you for advice all the time And when I have people who are earlier in their career talk about what are some things they can do to advance their career, I always will ask them about that. I'll say, what's your situation from a spouse, a boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever may be or what does it look like? Because that's the most important decision you'll ever make.

It'll make or break your life and your career because if they support you and they believe in you and they have that positive mindset, it will propel you like nothing else, literally, like nothing else. But it could also do the opposite if you mess it up. And a lot of people do mess it up. And it's hard. It's hard to know. Like nobody goes into a marriage thinking, I don't know. Let's just hope it works out. I mean, everybody believes it will work out and half of them don't.

And so that's why I say it's just something to be incredibly thoughtful about to really understand it because it is the most important decision you will ever make. And I love that story with you because you still had some doubts because you're probably in a really, I can't even imagine the place you're in mentally. When you're coming back and you're completely, your body is mangled and beat up from from war and shot. And she was right there. I love that story.

I want to, before we, we shut down, there's a guy that you talked about who was the greatest natural leader you've ever known. And his name's Vince Peterson. And I was curious, whenever I hear that or read that, I'm thinking, what makes a guy like Vince Peterson the greatest natural leader that you? you've ever known? So, you know, it's pretty simple. You know, the equation to be an amazing leader is actually pretty easy.

It's much harder to follow through them, though. And Vince just did it with ease. And I think the very first thing is, of course, leadership by example. If people know that you are willing to do and have done anything that they've done prior, you already are moving from a position of advantage, you know, because they know you've been there and done that. You know, it's tough to have a leader that tells you to do something that you don't know if they've ever done or you know they haven't done it. So they don't understand how hard it is or anything like that. So Vince, he had been there and done that.

I mean, he had grown up in the military and just from enlisted to officer. He had suffered a severe injury at one point in his career that should have put him out of the military. and he overcame it. He stayed in. So he had a perfect excuse not to be out working out. He lost his leg below the knee. And he had a perfect excuse to get out and he didn't. And he had a perfect excuse to not always be out at PT, but he wasn't. He was out there every single day leading the guys. So then it became the next step is be a selfless servant leader. He was the most humble person I've ever met. And he had this unique ability to just motivate and inspire you to want to be better and to motivate and inspire you to want to make the team better. So, you know, you just wanted

to follow him because he believed in you and he would give you the tools to help you believe in yourself. And that in turn, of course, made the team better. So just a, I never, I only saw him lose as cool a couple of times and I later realized that he, it was very calculating. Like he always maintained this very emotional even keel, but he would drop that bomb, that emotional bomb when he needed to if it was going to cause the effect he needed to have in that moment. So everything he did was very calculated, all in the right reasons. And the last thing, he had the ability to drive where the team needed to go.

And it wasn't, this is where I think it should go. He would gather the leaders of the team and say, where do you think we should go? And they would, you know, bring up different ideas and, you know, I think we should do this or do that. And he would gently guide that conversation. If you weren't really paying attention, you wouldn't notice it. But he would gently guide that conversation to reach where he felt obviously taking in ideas and bringing all that together, but where he knew the team needed to go to be successful. And then he would say, yep, that's where, you know, I agree with you guys that that's where we need to go.

And then he'd send them out and everybody would do what needed to be done to move down that road. And when we achieve success, he would give all the credit to those guys, you know, great ideas. You guys drove us to where we needed to be. When all along, it was where he wanted to go. And that is dynamic leadership at the highest level. You know, and it's tough to do. but he did it flawlessly. You know, I owe my career to that guy.

I love it. There was one more note that I had. I just wanted to read if you have a couple minutes about chief Dave Michaels. Am I saying that right? Yes. The story about Dave. I'll just take like a snippet of it. I'd love to, and I have a follow-up question.

But in my notes here, I just wrote down like, wow, four times because I thought this is this story's crazy. So it says, I'll dive in the middle of it. Right then, Dave regained consciousness, wounded over two dozen times and covered in blood. He was assumed dead by the insurgents. Among other places, he'd been shot in the stomach, scapula, the arm. The enemy continued to celebrate Dave saw that his rifle had been destroyed in the initial barrage of gunfire.

So he drew his pistol and killed two of them. The third swung around and opened fire hitting Dave several more times, including in the crotch. Dave kept pulling the trigger until his pistol ran out of ammo. Even as the enemy sprayed the room, Dave, dropped the empty magazine and reloaded with one hand, just as we had practiced countless times before. He hit the last insurgent who tumbled dead to the floor, quote, Come get me, he said to the handset, they're all dead.

What is it in warriors like you guys that you talked about the 10,000 hours in the prep and I'm certain that the repetition helps? but the mindset to reload the gun after being hit 27 times and keep fighting in that moment. What is it in that mindset, the belief system, the willingness to fight through any and all adversity when most people might just say, I'm hit, I'm hit. You know, I mean, what is it about you guys that allows you to do that? I mean, I think it's you overcome mindset. And, you know, a lot of people talk about what makes a seal a seal, what makes a special operations guy. I think at the end of the day, it is the no-quit gene.

It is the ability to continue to drive forward, regardless of the overwhelming odds in front of you. I mean, they're, you know, I love Hans Solo's line in, I think the Empire strikes back, you know, when C-3PO's like, oh, you know, there's a million to one odds that will make it out of this. And he's like, never tell me the odds. You know, it's that kind of scenario. It's just like, I don't care. I don't care what you tell me. I'm going to keep driving forward. And that is what enables guys to make it through training.

And that's what enables guys. I mean, there is a method to the madness of training. You know, there are some people that would go watch it. They would say, this is brutal. This is sadistic. But there's a reason. And that reason is executed in full effect during combat operations. in that situation with Dave.

You know, and bigger than that, you have to recognize that it's life or death. I mean, that situation, if you, you know, you're effectively dead.

If you say, well, I'm just done. So, I mean, you keep fighting until you have no breath left. And that's what Dave did. And I mean,

you know, I'd love to think that in a similar situation that I would step to that level to. I never got put in an example. situation like that. You know, I fall back where I could. But yeah, that's an amazing story. That's one of those stories that's kind of once in a, once in a campaign story. Well, Jay, man, I, like I said, I have millions of things here for you. I really appreciate you investing your time with me and for my listeners here. This was incredible. I love at some point to do it again.

and I have to obviously thank you so much for your service to our country. It's, we're lucky to live in the greatest country in the world. And I know there's listeners all over the world, but I live in America. I'm proud of that. And I'm so grateful that guys like you are warriors that lay themselves in a line for people like me who hasn't done that. And it's even more of an honor to get a chance to directly talk to you and thank you here. And that you were willing to share these stories because it makes sense. such an impact on the people who are listening. So thank you so much, man.

Hey, my honor. Can I take a few minutes to talk about a new program. We'll come online. I think a lot of your, because it's directly in line with leadership. Perfect. Perfect. So we are launching a new program called the Overcome Academy for Wounded Warriors. You know, will it ever be open to the public? I don't know. Maybe someday. But for right now, it's for Wounded Warriors. And the reason being, a lot of this grew out of my own lessons that I've learned throughout my career and then my journey as a woman lawyer. And then a lot of it also had to do with a lot of research that I did. After World War II, our World War II bets came home and they truly were the greatest generation.

They went to war. They saved us from, you know, obviously the Nazis sweeping across and the Japanese. But then they came back home and they became leaders across the board. They became leaders in their communities. They became leaders in business. became leaders in politics. Almost 50% of World War II veterans came back and started their own businesses. Now, you've got huge businesses, Walmart, Nike, huge businesses that were started by

World War II veterans. I don't think that anybody can die, that there is a huge gap in leadership happening in this country, and specifically within our youth. Our youth, in my opinion, are being fed a mindset of, you know, hey, if it makes you uncomfortable or hey you don't like it, just don't do it. And it is exactly opposite from the grit and the resiliency that built this country into what it is. So I started saying, man, you know, why, where are we missing? So bringing these things together.

So World War II bets, 50% starting a business leader started doing research. Our current generation of veterans only 4.5% are starting their own businesses. So the gap, they're not getting out in the leading. And the problem is the military teaches you a lot about leadership to actually get out and translate it into the civilian world in this unstructured environment. Because the military is really structured. I mean, you know, we have rank structure, we have mission structure,

you have unit structure, you have all these things in place. And the civilian world doesn't have that. So that is what the Overcome Academy is at its heart and soul. It is teaching these wounded warriors how to lead themselves, how to identify their task and purpose in the civilian world, how to identify what we're utilizing the Johnson & Johnson Human Performance Institute curriculum to identify their ultimate mission, to teach them about resiliency in the civilian world, and to teach them how to communicate and speak. I'm basically going to be giving them my messaging of lead always and overcome all. to get out there and deliver this message. And then they have to get out and they have to lead. They have to get out, and every warrior will be sponsored by a company.

So this is the key point here. A lot of the people that are going to listen to this podcast have companies. And a lot of you have been looking for ways to give back to support our wounded warriors. It's not a yellow sticker on the back of your car, and it's not sending a hundred bucks in to some, you know, organization. The Overcome Academy will give you a way that you can directly support Wounded Warrior and directly have an impact and an interaction with him. The sponsorships are larger, but in the grand scheme of money that you spend, I guarantee you the return on this investment will be worth it. Because we have a mentorship aspect where you will put together a group of three to five leaders within your company that will directly lead and work with that Wounded Warrior as he goes through this program.

So you will get to know them. You will get to understand them. You will get to hear their struggles as they go through this. And you will be able to, as I talk to them about, teach them how to speak civilian. And you'll have a greater appreciation of what these guys and gals are going through. In return, they will come back and speak for your company. They will tell their story about leadership, about leading always, about overcoming all, about teamwork. The key things that every company is looking for and make their workforce better.

they then have to go out and speak in schools on these things. So I'm going to get them in front of America's youth telling these things. And then they have to take on a leadership role within their community, within youth groups within their community. So we're talking with the Boy Scouts. We're talking with Big Brother, Big Sister programs. We want to get them maybe coaching Little League, but they have to take on a leadership role. Basically, I want to get our wounded warriors out there leading because our country needs it. That's the Overcome Academy.

You can learn more to overcomeacademy.org. We are going to be launching a GoFundMe page here in about a month, maybe a little less, but we need your help to make this a reality. If you believe in this country, if you want to help women warriors, if you think that our youth need more leadership, that our nation needs more leadership, I want to get our veterans out there, and I want to teach America's youth how to be leaders and how to have more mental resiliency, develop that overcome mindset. So that is my passion.

That is where I'm going. And I'd love for anybody to listen to this podcast to get involved in that. Please do Overcomeacademy.org. You said it perfectly, man. Thank you. Again, I would encourage everybody to go there. And Jay, like I said, your work has impacted me in so many people in a big way. And I'm thankful of that.

And I'd love to do this again at some point. And let's let's let's let's let's continue this dialogue as we both progress man. I like it. Ryan, awesome, man. Yeah. Great. Thanks, I'm thinking about launching a blog myself soon.

Really? So maybe not quite at the level of a podcast, but at least a, at least a blog. So maybe you and I can do an interview one of these days. A vlog? Like a video blog? Yeah. Nice. You should because you, not everybody is able to like succinctly tell their story and you just you're really good at it.

So yeah, you should. Thanks. If there's any way I could somehow help, obviously, you know, say the word. You know, we'll jump on Skype on the phone. It would be great. Yeah, I may reach out to you to get a little more advice as I'm putting this together. But, yeah, it's one of the things that's coming, hopefully within a month to six weeks, maybe less. Okay.

Launch this. Cool. So. Cool, man. Well, thanks again, Jay. I appreciate it. I will let you know when this is going to go live. Perfect.

And I'll send you, send you and Erica a note with the link and everything. And you can feel free to share it with anybody you like. But I really appreciate it again, man. We will. Absolutely. Ryan, thanks, brother. Our man. Thanks.

The journey of leadership never ends, right? Yeah, man. Absolutely. All right. Awesome, man. See you, Jay. Bye. This episode of the Learning Leader Show is over,

but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to Learningleadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show. Proud to say that this episode of The Learning Leader Show is brought to by Roan. Rhone.Rone.com, premium activeware, engineered with principal, performance, and progress for the modern man. They build clothing around three years. maintenance, cutting edge performance, premium comfort and simplistic style from rapid moisture wicking

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