The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 217: JJ Redick - "You've Never Arrived. You're Always Becoming."

Starting point is 00:00:00 And you're absolutely right. There are sometimes in life in everything, not just sports, but there's sometimes where you feel like I'm doing everything right and it's just not happening. It's at that moment when you're like, I still have to, I'm going to use the Sixers phrase here, but you still have to like, you have to trust the process. If you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, if you're taking care of your body, if you're getting your rest, if you're eating right, if you're getting your extra shots up and doing your core work and everything sort of seems on balance, eventually those shots are going to go in.

Starting point is 00:00:36 This episode is brought to you by my friends at Callaway Golf. Calloway's business and marketing approach has turned heads over the last several years, helping the company make a dramatic turnaround from losing millions of dollars per year to being a leader in the industry. Products like the GBB Epic Driver, Steelhead XR irons, and Calloway's Chrome Soft Golf Ball are aimed at avid golfers looking for premium performance. And the coolest part about this partnership is we're doing a giveaway. Yes, we're giving away the number one selling driver of 2017, the GB epic driver. All you have to do is put your favorite leadership quote pulled from an episode of The Learning

Starting point is 00:01:20 Leader show on Twitter or Instagram. So pull your favorite leadership quote that any of the greatest leadership minds over the last three years from the Learning Leader Show has said, quote them on Twitter or Instagram and tag my name at Ryan Hawk 12 at Ryan Hawk 1-2 on Twitter or Instagram. My team will gather all of the quotes and you can enter as many times you like the more times that you enter the better chance you have of winning. And over the course of a few months, we will gather them all and then we will draw a random winner and my friends at Callaway will send you the GBB epic driver. Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing all of your great responses on Twitter and

Starting point is 00:02:04 Instagram at Ryan Hawk 12. And thank you to my friends at Callaway Golf. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. I loved this conversation with our featured leader tonight, J.J. Reddick, National Player of the Year, his senior season at Duke, 11-year NBA veteran going on his 12th season. He recently signed a one-year, 23, million dollar contract with the Philadelphia 76ers. A really thoughtful guy also has his own podcast called The Chronicles of Reddick. I highly recommended. A few of the topics that we got into. How to develop grit and yourself as well as as a parent for your children. And then working in an imperfect environment, your ability to adapt will be the key indicator in your success or

Starting point is 00:03:00 failure. You'll love to hear what JJ says about this. And then being addicted information. People have said that JJ is an overthinker and how this impacts him as a three-point shooter in the NBA. Then his future plans. I'm fascinated by everything he's involved in. And I asked him about what he plans to do when his playing days are over. I think you'll find it interesting. Ladies and gentlemen, I love this one with JJ Reddick. All right, JJ, thanks so much for being here on The Learning Leader Show. Welcome, man. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate the comments too.

Starting point is 00:03:40 When I initially sent you a cold reach out on Twitter, you know, those things are kind of a long shot sometimes, especially a guy like you who's very accomplished, very busy in the midst of free agency. And so when I got the DM back saying, hey, I actually listened to your pod, it was a pretty cool moment. I'm not going to lie, man. So it was cool that you've already listened to it. And you mentioned in the pre, when we were pre chatting,

Starting point is 00:04:06 before hitting record that it's helped you a little bit. So I appreciate that, man. For sure. You know, I told you this earlier, but your podcast, other than serial, which my wife put me on, your podcast was like the very first podcast I listened to before I started my own podcast. So I definitely learned a lot from listening to yours. Thank you, man. As you said to AJ, I think when you talk, it's neat when podcasters can kind of get

Starting point is 00:04:36 together and have these conversations because we're both used to being, you're used to being on the other end of it where you're preparing, you have notes, you're thinking of questions to ask to create an interesting conversation. And so now it's, I go on as a guest now more frequently too on other shows. And it's, it's always cool when you can be on the other side of it. But JJ, typically, and you might have heard this, if you listen to shows, how I would start, the only thing really that's scripted in the whole conversation is I'm really interested in studying world-class performers and people who have sustained excellence. And specifically people who have not only themselves, but also ones who have spent time around others. And you've been around world class athletes,

Starting point is 00:05:16 coaches, performers. You live in L.A. So you're talking to guys who are showrunners of great TV shows or whatever it may be. I'm curious from your perspective. If you look at those people, what are some of the common themes of those who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time? I think the first thing is passion. If I look at anyone that I've been around that has been successful for a number of years, they're very passionate about what they do. Coach K is passionate about teaching and about coaching and about winning. And that's what drives them.

Starting point is 00:06:00 You know, Steve Balmer, I think Steve and Passion are, you know, synonymous with each other. and you know when he was with Microsoft he had he had a passion about about building that business into one of the biggest businesses obviously in the entire world and now as an owner like he's passionate about building a world class organization that can win so that's that's one thing that I think of but you know I think the biggest thing is for sustained success over a long period of time is mastering the small stuff. My favorite children's book as a kid, this is when I was a kid, was the carrot seed. And it's a book that I read to my, my oldest son,

Starting point is 00:06:48 probably three times a week. Are you familiar with the book? No, what is it called? It's called the carrot seed. It's like eight carrots. The seed? Like S-E-E-D? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Okay. The carrot seed. And so it's eight pages long. And basically the book says, a little boy planted a carrot seed. you know, his mom said it wouldn't come up. His dad said it wouldn't come up. His brother said nothing would come up.

Starting point is 00:07:11 And every day he pulled up the weeds around the seed and sprinkled the ground with water. And everyone kept saying it wouldn't come up. It wouldn't come up. And yet he continued to pull up the weeds and sprinkle the ground with water. And then one day a carrot came up. And so it's just that idea sort of, you know, being in the weeds every day for like an athlete, people see. the games. They see the 82 games we play. They see the playoffs. What they don't see is the diligence required on a daily basis to prepare your body and sharpen your skills to be a world-class athlete.

Starting point is 00:07:48 And that starts in the summer. It continues throughout the season. And it honestly, so it's, it's that diligence to sort of be in the weeds, but then it's also like you have to have a passion about what you're doing. Otherwise, the grind will defeat you. I'm not surprised that you give such a thoughtful answer. That's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of your, of your podcast and listening to you talk. And one of the, I watched one of your speeches you gave to,

Starting point is 00:08:15 you went back and spoke to the players at Duke. I'm sure you've said this a number of times on, you've said it on a podcast too, but I like, I like little simple sayings that mean a lot that could impact you greatly. And you, you always say you've never arrived,

Starting point is 00:08:32 you're always becoming. And if there is ever a, that really sums up what I believe it means to be a learning leader because as, from a leadership perspective, the best leaders I've ever been around have never arrived. They're always becoming. They're always seeking more knowledge. They're always climbing the mountain and realizing that, you know, they're never really going to make it to the top.

Starting point is 00:08:56 The best ones at least, the ones that aren't very good feel like they're always at the top. And so where did that phrase come from? Where did you learn that? Or how did that become one of your mantras of you've never arrived, you're always becoming? I have a friend in the NBA. He's an assistant coach with the Houston Rockets now. And for about 50 games, my last year in Orlando, you know, he was sort of my coach, my player development guy.

Starting point is 00:09:27 He's also a Christian. And so we would kind of organize small. group studies that I would lead. Usually you had like five or six guys come on the road. And when I got traded that year, you know, he mentioned to me that he received this devotional every day in his email inbox. And I said, can you do me a favor and just forward me that devotional? So every morning at like 8 a.m., I get this devotional. This is every day for the last four and a half years. And so one day I was reading the devotional and that was sort of the message. And I couldn't tell you who wrote it. I'm sure I have it somewhere in my archive to emails. I couldn't tell you

Starting point is 00:10:10 who wrote that. And it's obviously not scriptural, but you've never arrived. You're always becoming. And I think I applied it to my own life and my own career when I thought about everything that I had done in my career. There was never a. any sense of satisfaction, there was never any sense of entitlement, there was never any sense that I was done accomplishing things. And if you go all the way back to say when you're 14 years old and you're a freshman in high school and the local newspaper does a write-up on you, and it appears on the front page, that can give you the sense that you've arrived. Or the first time that you make it on a top 100 national recruiting list, or the first time that you get a

Starting point is 00:11:06 letter from an ACC school, or when you win a state championship, or when you get named a McDonald's All-American, there's all these sort of defining moments when you're an athlete that you can kind of have that, oh, I've arrived. I know I have teammates who've had, you know, arrived, tattooed on their bodies. It just goes against how I think. There's a lot of it. There's a lot of, you know, never been a point at any point in time where I've had that feeling of arriving. To me, there's always something more. There's something more in terms of skill sharpening and getting better as a player. There's something more in terms of being a leader.

Starting point is 00:11:48 But then as I've gotten older, I've sort of applied that mantra or that ethos, whatever you want to call it. I've sort of applied that to every aspect of my life. I'm a parent now. I don't have all that much parental knowledge or experience. You know, there's never going to be a moment in time where I arrive as a parent. I watch my own parents, you know, in their 60s now, they're retired, and they still have to deal with us. You know, I'm in the middle of five kids.

Starting point is 00:12:15 So there's never that moment. So I think, you know, the one thing is you can look at it from a success standpoint where you're always hungry for more. You can look at it from leadership or knowledge standpoint. You get the realization that there's always something more to be learned. And I think that the sort of avoidance of the negativity with that feeling to me is the avoidance of entitlement. There's never that entitlement that I've arrived. I now deserve something because I've arrived. Did you have to mature into this behavior?

Starting point is 00:12:51 You've said about yourself earlier in your career. maybe when you were at Duke, you were the most hated guy in college of basketball, mainly because I think people were jealous. You were kind of a cocky swagger about you. So did you have to develop this as you matured, do you think? Well, I don't think I've ever gone through long periods of time where I had this entitlement. There are certainly moments when you're a younger player where you feel entitled. but I've been very fortunate to have great coaches, great parents, great mentors, that if there ever was a moment where I was being entitled or if I was just sort of resting on any sense

Starting point is 00:13:39 of accomplishment, I had people that would call me out. So, you know, Chris Collins at Duke, the second half of the ACC championship games, my senior year, a minute into the second half, Coach K yanked me. I was fuming. I was sitting on the bench for like three minutes, and Coach Collins just started cursing me out, telling me that I was acting like a little brat, and that did I really want my last ACC game to go down like this? And so I always had those people that would, in those moments of entitlement, or those moments where I lost that drive or I had that sense of arriving, I had the right people in my life.

Starting point is 00:14:29 So as much as I say like I'm naturally inclined to not be that way and to sort of always look to the next thing, you know, I'm a human being. And I've been very fortunate to have those people, whether it's my parents in high school, coaches in college, close friends and mentors and older teammates as an NBA player. You know, I've had those people that have sort of driven me

Starting point is 00:14:50 beyond those sort of brief moments of entitlement. You talk about the, you're fortunate to have such great leaders in your life. Coach K, assistant coaches, notably your parents. And so, I mean,

Starting point is 00:15:03 I've learned about your upbringing based on your podcast. And, and I love to compare it to your son's upbringing now. So when you're growing up, you're getting hammy down shoes from your sisters. I believe you said your first pair of shoes were when you were in the sixth grade, as long as they are under $40.

Starting point is 00:15:22 And now you played in the NBA for, what, 11 years, I believe. 12th year. You just signed a deal with Philly for a one-year contract for $23 million. You have a couple boys. Now, you can provide whatever your boys need and some more than anybody. And that's different from how you were brought up. Your boys don't need hand-me-downs. I'm sure Adidas will send you whatever you want for free.

Starting point is 00:15:54 They'll have shoes for life. And even if they didn't, you could afford to buy them. And you could buy them anything else they need. I have to believe your upbringing and correct me if I'm wrong, helped you develop grit. And you've talked about grit and the importance of having grit as an athlete, especially playing into other professionals who maybe are more athletic than you and you're having to outwork them and have more grit.

Starting point is 00:16:18 how do you think about this a lot with your wife like how do you guys plan to to handle the fact that I talked to AJ a lot about this how do you handle the fact that you want to raise your kids so that they develop grit even though you can easily provide everything and more that they will ever need that's a great question that is a great question actually you know Stan van Gundy and I have talked about this quite a bit and, you know, I think as a parent, especially sort of a parent of a parent that's first generation wealth and varying degrees of wealth, of course, but just first generation, you know, there's no like blueprint for you.

Starting point is 00:17:05 There's no blueprint. I can't, I can't, you know, raise my kids the same way my parents raise me because it's a completely different environment. The accountability part of it, I think, is the biggest thing that Chelsea and I talk about. You know, we want our kids to, really, we want two things overall. We want our kids to feel like they're loved, and we want our kids to love other people. And if they do those, if they have those two things, then everything else will sort of fall into place. The accountability part is the hard part.

Starting point is 00:17:39 But I think when, as a parent, you are a leader. You are sort of the leader of your household and you're the leader of your kids. And so as a parent, you know, how you live your life is the example that your kids are going to follow. At least you hope so. And so for me, you know, I always talk about the fact that the biggest thing my dad did for me as a kid was that he went to work every day and he would come home and he would do work at the house. And on the weekends, he would work on the house. If we needed extra money, he would go, you know, fix up someone's bathroom or mow somebody's lawn. Like, he was always working.

Starting point is 00:18:23 And I think that's the biggest example that I can set for my kids. It would be very easy for me at the end of my career to have a very simple life and not work and just be a dad. I don't know that that would be setting the right example for them. And so that's one part of it. You know, and in terms of developing grit, I think when you have a lot, it can sort of jade that grit. And, you know, Chelsea and I talk a lot about sort of living well under our means and sort of having just a simple life where, you know, stuff doesn't matter. We don't want to have stuff. We'd love to have great experiences and have great experience.

Starting point is 00:19:11 experiences with our kids. But, you know, again, it goes back to that sort of sense of arrival. If you have everything you could ever need as a kid, then what is the sort of motivation to work and dream of bigger things? So anyways, those are the things we talk about. I'm curious what AJ says about this because it is, it is a, you know, a conversation we have quite a bit. we talked about it at length. I've recorded a few podcasts with them. And I think it's interesting, people who are listening, it's episode 200 most recently. And you'll find, and AJ won't mind me saying, because I think we were kind of talking our way through it, not really sure.

Starting point is 00:19:57 Right. I'm not in the same situation. Obviously, I'm not a multimillionaire. But, I mean, we do, you know, we do pretty well and can provide whatever our kids need. and but but my actually parents were in that situation too they still are and uh but but they were of the mindset that and i think this is what we try to do as well they're there if we need them but they're very good at letting us figure things out meaning if something goes wrong if we call them they'll be there but they're not going to be there unless we call them you know what i mean by that

Starting point is 00:20:32 like so so so there are a lot of things that we've went through And I think we want to try to put our kids in the same situation. It's much harder now with how much pressures on parents and everyone's Instagram and social media with like how good of a dad they are. There's so much mom shaming on social media. It's ridiculous. Yeah. So I think, but it's like can we find a way to let them deal with their own adversity be there if they need it? But they got to figure things out on their own sometimes because that's how they're going to develop that grit or their willingness.

Starting point is 00:21:05 and being able to handle tough situation. We grew up playing football, playing basketball, baseball, all the sports. And sports certainly help. And I'm guessing your kids are probably going to get involved in sports too, which I think can help offset that a little bit because you're going to lose. You're not going to be the best player. I went to college, JJ, at Miami University in Ohio here out of high school. And I play quarterback.

Starting point is 00:21:30 I was in the exact same class as Ben Rothersburg, same age. And so it taught me at a young age, 18, 19 years old, freshman in college that, you know, I moved to Oxford, Ohio the day after I graduated high school in order to try to beat him out because I knew he was going to be at home, swimming and playing golf. And I learned quickly, though, that wasn't good enough. Yeah. You know, you do everything you can and sometimes it's still not enough. It was a great lesson to learn in my formative years to help me develop grit and handle adversity that, hey, man, sometimes life isn't. what you think is fair. It doesn't necessarily work out and you have to regroup.

Starting point is 00:22:07 And I ended up, if I wanted to be a starting quarterback, I had to transfer. And I didn't want to do that. I loved Miami. And that's ultimately what happened. So I think going through those moments were helpful, even though I was raised in an environment where my parents could provide pretty much anything we needed. But those tough moments helped shaped, I think, my character moving forward. I think that's a great point.

Starting point is 00:22:27 I'm actually, I'm in the middle of this book, Falling Upward by Richard Roar. and it's a it's a more of a spiritual religious book not necessarily having to deal with parenting but one of the things that the essence of the book is that you know to reach sort of the second half of your spiritual journey you you need to fail and that's the only way to get there there's no like individual prompting or willpower that can get you there beyond failing and you know as a as a parent you You don't want to see your kids fail, but it is so necessary. And then encouraging them through that failure and getting them to the other side, I think, is the biggest thing. But absolutely, you know, we live, we live now in a society where pretty much everyone is sort of a helicopter parent.

Starting point is 00:23:24 Like Chelsea and I can admit to that as well. We are that way at times. You know, it'd be good if my son ran around the playground and fell a little bit. Like, it would be good for him. But, you know, we are protective. And so it's sort of finding that balance because, you know, material goods, like, my son's going to have shoes on his feet. He's going to have a shirt on his back and he's going to be fed. Like, that's fine.

Starting point is 00:23:48 We've got to figure out ways where, you know, he can sort of grow as a young man as he gets older through failure. I love this. I can talk about the parenting stuff all day, man, but I have some other notes that I have to bring up. So you recorded a podcast with Aaron Rogers. And I've been, you know, fortunate through my brother, get to get to know Aaron a little bit, spend time with him in Tahoe every year at this celebrity golf tournament. And I love getting the chance to just learn how he thinks and have those conversations. And you guys, it was a, I recommend everybody. who's listening to us to go listen to JJ's episode with Aaron Rogers,

Starting point is 00:24:29 because to hear these world-class athletes from different sports talk about some of the similarities and the parallels between how you approach your craft and handle what you guys called and working in an imperfect environment. And I love thinking about that, especially as a quarterback. I mean, I played basketball, but I'm mainly a football guy. But you talk about the mental toughness and handling a crowded pocket and learning how to shoot off a screen with a hand in your face.

Starting point is 00:24:56 and how there's a lot of similarities between a quarterback having. Because a lot of people, they watch football, and they're like, look at the guy, he's wide open. But you don't understand there's a 6-foot-6, 315-pound D. Lyman, who's faster than you as a quarterback, who is right in your face. And you've got to throw without being able to step into it with safeties and look them off, all these things. And it happened so fast. And when I watch you play basketball, I'm like, how do these guys, specifically you, get off a screen? There's like Dirk Novitsky, seven-footer, long wingspan, hand in your. your face and you just shoot it like it's an open three and it goes in.

Starting point is 00:25:29 And so can you talk me more about working in an imperfect environment, how you prepare to do that and do it successfully because it's so tough? Yeah, I think the biggest takeaway, and by the way, I really enjoyed having Aaron on my podcast, but the biggest takeaway was absolutely when he talked about, and we talked about it together, just mastering mechanics in an imperfect environment. And I think as an athlete, that's really the hardest thing to do. Because, you know, if I was to go into an open gym and it was just me on the court and I had a rebounder and I'd shot, let's say, 25 threes, you know, I'd make between 20 and 23 probably. You know, I've got to be able to do that at full speed, running off screens with a defender trailing me, another defender.

Starting point is 00:26:24 hedging me. Usually the pass isn't perfect. It might not be right on the seams. It might not be right in my shot pocket. Maybe my footwork isn't perfect. And I've got to figure out a way to square my body, get it up, get my shot off, get enough arc on it, and have it go in. Aaron, of course, is the same way. He talked about it on my podcast. Like, you know, you calculate all these things as it's happening. Your body speed, the angle, where the defender's arms are. So you're constantly doing this,

Starting point is 00:26:59 and you can't master it unless you've done it over and over and over again. And you have to figure out ways, obviously, in the off season to sort of create these imperfect environments. I would go like a step further. Like beyond sports, you know, it's very rare in life that we get perfect environments. If you're a,

Starting point is 00:27:23 if you work in the financial field and you're a stockbroker, an investment banker, a hedge fund manager, a private equity guy, you've got to factor in so many different things that happen in the macro financial world to just make like one play. Or we're going to go long on this company

Starting point is 00:27:47 or whatever it is. You've got to factor in all these imperfect factors. You know, I'm dealing with closing on my house right now. And it's not a perfect environment. There's things that the sponsor wants. There's things that I want. My realtor's pushing for stuff. There's so many things in life that just aren't perfect environments.

Starting point is 00:28:10 Parenting, of course, you can't control everything in these environments. So, you know, adjusting sort of on the floor. and repetition, of course, and just having sort of that grit that we talked about earlier sort of creates these mechanics that allow you to be successful in these imperfect environments. I had a great mentor, JJ, tell me it was years ago that in order to be successful in business and life, that you have to be willing to adapt to situations. And you're going to face different situations at all times in your career and your ability to be successful over and over from a sustainability standpoint is your willingness and ability

Starting point is 00:28:55 to embrace adapting to that environment that you're in. And it seems parallel to this working in an imperfect environment. You just go from Orlando to Milwaukee to L.A. and now Philly. And I know you also talked about the fact that a movie quote, Into the Wild, great movie. And I love it as well. And you talked about the joy of life as new horizons and trying new things and having to get outside of your comfort zone. When you're looking to make this change to a free agency, and I think the Clippers had already signed a couple other guys that play your same position and they had a lot of money tied up in them. So you probably were not, you had a feeling you were not going to be back with them.

Starting point is 00:29:39 What was your mindset towards free agency and deciding where you wanted to go? I believe you're looking for something long term and you ended up signing a one-year deal with the Sixers for a boatload of cash. But I'm curious of your mindset as you went into it. Well, you know, there was a there was a feeling when the season ended that I wouldn't be back. And as sort of those two months, you know, starting May 1st to July 1st, as pre-agency got closer, I, that feeling sort of intensified. And it wasn't just me, you know, I got the feeling from the Clippers that they didn't want me back. And so there was no real, real shock that they didn't offer me a contract. And so for me, it was like I wanted to find sort of stability.

Starting point is 00:30:23 You know, we, we've had a lot of life changes in the four years that I signed in L.A. When we were, I was in Orlando for seven years, other than meeting my wife and getting married, there weren't a whole lot of life changes. You know, we had a, we lived in this like small 1,100 square foot apartment for our first three years of marriage. And then we got traded to Milwaukee. We built a house in Austin and moved there. Then I signed in L.A. We moved there.

Starting point is 00:30:53 We got pregnant. We had a kid. We ended up having two kids. We moved quite a bit in L.A. And then, you know, we moved to Brooklyn for the offseason here. We sold our house in Austin to Brooklyn. So we were kind of like looking for some sort of stability. And that, you know, I said this to someone the other day, but everybody always talks about sort of on a contract,

Starting point is 00:31:12 the second number. you know, whether it's 23 or whether it's 40 or 50 or 60. And like, that's important. Of course, that sort of helps your life after basketball. But for me, you know, I really wanted that first number. I wanted a three or a four on that first number, you know, in terms of years. And the only three-year deal that I got, I just didn't like the terms of it. So it really was like at that point, I had to make a decision. This is like less than 24 hours into free agency. But Brian Colangelo, the GM, was getting ready to go into a meeting in L.A. With another veteran player that he was going to offer a one-year kind of $20 million contract to.

Starting point is 00:31:55 And my agent called me and said, you know, you've got 15 minutes to decide, basically. I wasn't in the same, like, physical location as Chelsea. So I was like, I got to run back to the apartment real quick. And I talk about this with her. So I didn't have much time to decide. side, but looking back, I made the right decision. It was a weird free agency, and some guys, some really good players sort of got squeezed by what the market was. And you saw Derek Rose, who still has a lot left in the tank, sign a one-year veteran minimum contract.

Starting point is 00:32:32 By the way, real quick, that Christopher McAnlis quote from Into the Wild, the Joy of Life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is a, no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon for each day to have a new and different sun. I love that. I do too. It's a great movie, Into the Wild. Great book, too. Yeah. Really, really good when it comes to, you know, actually, this is going to take me to look a little different direction, but I'm glad you brought it up. When you were talking to Maverick Carter, he called you an overthinker. And you said that you said that you were just so interested in information in general.

Starting point is 00:33:15 Twitter, business insider, you're reading about everything, basketball reference. As a shooter, sometimes I feel like good shooters, I could be way off, but good shooters sometimes have to be unconscious.

Starting point is 00:33:28 They have to be willing to pull the trigger without thinking. They have to have irrational confidence. If you've missed 20 in a row, you're saying, well, I can't wait because I'm going to make the next one. But a guy like you who is called an overthinker and you admit that that being true,

Starting point is 00:33:41 Does that, how do you balance that when you get on the court? Let's say if you go through a mini slump of not overthinking the fact of, man, I got to make this next one because I've missed my last six or whatever, maybe. That is a challenge for me. It's a challenge for me. When I was in high school, my dad used to call me a head case. So then I started writing headcase on my game shoes. like no i i i am i am sort of addicted to information it's hard for me to just just like turn off and so when the game comes you know i'm constantly sort of uh quantifying things not just like my

Starting point is 00:34:27 my own sort of shooting percentage or anything like that but everything that's sort of happening within a game and I always find that the less I think and the less I pay attention to the other stuff happening in the game, the better I play. And so that's sort of the challenge. And as I've gotten older, I've gotten better at it, but you can't change who you are. You know, I am a deep dive person. I got into watches like six or seven years ago and it's a rabbit hole that I'm trying to escape from at this point in my life. And it's just, I'm so far down the rabbit hole. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:35:08 It's, it's tough. And it's all about sort of information. You know, when I, when I get interested in a topic, like, you know, the other day, I was like, I wonder what the history of the Brooklyn Bridge is. And that was like two hours down a rabbit hole on Google. And then I got on Amazon like 10 minutes later and ordered like three books about the Brooklyn bridge. Like, that's just how I am.

Starting point is 00:35:33 And so, you know, it's a good thing. It's a good thing. But at the same time, like, when I'm in the moment of an actual basketball game, you know, I think I do, I do more harm than good when I think too much. So how do you handle slumps, mini slumps when they come up? I think you talked about, I think you said you were talking to Ray Allen about this. And you said if you're routine. If your routine doesn't change and you can't blame the routine, you're going to have off nights, it happens. And I think this relates to people in all walks of life, especially I've worked in sales.

Starting point is 00:36:10 And so you're going to have moments where you feel like you're doing everything right. And it just doesn't happen for whatever reason. And so, but but staying ritualized and having your routine, maybe making tweaks to it from time to time because you evolve, you learn new things. But is it the routine? Is it your rituals? I've seen the videos of how you, you work out, uh, for. from a shooting perspective. It's really cool to watch to see how you prepare.

Starting point is 00:36:34 But what is it and how do you manage the tough moments through mini slumps? I probably at this point don't get as worked up about a mini slump as, let's say, fans or commentators or even like coaches or even sometimes teammates. Like if I'm in a mini slump and, you know, I have a few. teammates that I know they're trying to be helpful it's almost an annoyance to me for them to be like hey man keep shooting I'm like yeah what fuck else am I going to do that's what I do uh no I believe it's Angela Duckworth but in her book grit like she talks about sort of the enjoyment of the mundane yeah like that's essentially what grit is it's the enjoyment of the mundane and so like for me

Starting point is 00:37:24 to go in a gym and shoot hundreds of shots is absolutely 100% boring it's It is. I'm not going to lie, but I love it. It's so much fun to me. I know that sounds like paradoxical, but it's the truth. It is so mundane to go to a gym every day and shoot jump shots. But because I do that, I trust it. So it's not just doing the routine, it's trusting the routine. And you're absolutely right. There are sometimes in life, in everything, not just sports, But there's sometimes like where you feel like I'm doing everything right and it's just not happening. It's at that moment when you're like, I still have to, I'm going to use the Sixers phrase here, but you still have to like, you have to trust the process. If you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, if you're taking care of your body, if you're getting your rest, if you're eating right, if you're getting your extra shots up and doing your core work and everything sort of seems on balance, eventually those shots are going to go in.

Starting point is 00:38:25 You tweeted that when you signed. It's gotten like, went viral from a Twitter perspective because of the Sixers process. And you have some really interesting new teammates. How are you going to be, I talked to AJ a lot of this when you become the old guy in the locker room. You got all these young dudes who are like 20, NBA is even younger than the NFL. But these really young guys like Fultz and Ombed, who seems to have a great personality and he's funny. And you coming in as this as a guy who is a now. a veteran who I assume they're asking you to bring some leadership to the locker room.

Starting point is 00:39:01 And it's almost such a generational difference. Like you know tech and you understand social media, but it's a whole other level with guys who are 20 years old compared to a 33 year old. So have you had any conversations yet? Or what do you think it's going to be like with these young guys as you being one of the older guys in the locker room? I've reached out to, I think all my teammates at this point. there's maybe a couple guys that I haven't connected with, but, you know, I've had conversations

Starting point is 00:39:29 and tried to get to know a few of them. It's going to be different for sure in terms of sort of the cultural relatability. You know, I don't really consider myself a millennial, and it's sort of that younger generation of NBA guys, like when I think about like millennials, it's just a, it's just a different mindset. So, you know, part of the reason that I got the deal I did was, was to, sort of impart like the professionalism, the experiences, you know, that I've learned over the years,

Starting point is 00:40:02 you know, the work ethic, all those things, sort of impart those things, sort of impart those things and make an impression on, you know, this younger group of guys because they're,

Starting point is 00:40:10 listen, there's five or six guys on the team that are way more talented than I ever was at that age. And so for me, it's about teaching them those things. I want to go back to something you were talking about earlier

Starting point is 00:40:22 in terms of adaptability. and in terms of sustained success, that's a huge factor. You know, people ask me all the time, you know, what is, what makes Coach K so great? What is Coach K's greatest strength? And the answer is so simple. He's adaptable. People talk about a system in sports. They talk about, you know, Belichick's system or Popovich's system or Coach K's system.

Starting point is 00:40:54 what they don't realize is those coaches don't have systems. They're not a plug and play. What they are is they're an adapting, evolving system that takes a look at their personnel and says, how do I maximize this team's personnel in order to win games? Coach K coaches each team differently. His style is different with each team, both in coaching and how his team plays. and that's a great lesson that I learned because, you know, I was a lottery pick. I didn't play a ton my first two years.

Starting point is 00:41:30 Then I was a rotational player. And then I was a sixth man. And then I was a starter in L.A. And now, you know, I don't know exactly basketball-wise what that role is this year. But, you know, I'm going to be sort of an older mentor and leader in locker room presence. And so each, I feel like each year in the end of, I've had to adapt. There hasn't been like static in in my NBA career. Each year you have to adapt. And sometimes, you know, that that adaptability is marginal year to year. And then sometimes, you know,

Starting point is 00:42:07 you take leaps and bounds and you have to sort of adapt on the fly. And so just being flexible like that, like going into this year, I don't really know what to expect, but I know that I'm adaptable. I know that I'll figure it out and I'll figure out a way to use my strengths to benefit the 76ers. You said before that I think it was 2008. You wrote down a list of goals or things that you wanted to do. I don't know if you've named all the things that you wrote down. I think one of them might have been being a dad and playing in the Olympics, I think I heard. So are you, is that a regular practice of yours?

Starting point is 00:42:47 The reason I asked is because part of the purpose of this podcast, Jay J.J. is to learn from people who have had sustained excellence and some of their routines, their rituals, the things that they do, I'm not saying we just copy everybody, but if you look at something that JJ Redick did and maybe you implement that aspect of what you've done and it could help you in your life, whatever it is you do. So I'm curious from like a goal setting perspective. You said, you know, you and Chelsea, I thought it was interesting when I asked that question about parenting. You said, we want to make sure they feel loved and that they love others. So it's obvious that you and Chelsea have sat down and talked about that.

Starting point is 00:43:20 So when it comes to goal setting and what you want to do, is that a regular practice of yours of literally writing them down? And if so, what are some of them now that a few years have passed since then, almost 10 years since then? Yeah. No, so I, you know, I wrote down goals always growing up. And then I got to Duke and I realized, and Coach Kay taught me this, that like, you know, you want to sort of set goals that you can control.

Starting point is 00:43:46 For example, like, you know, I've never made it a goal to, you know, make an all NBA team or even in college. Like, I didn't make it a goal to be national player of the year. You know, those goals are voted on by other people. Now, you can control smaller goals and hopefully you get those results. But, you know, the thing I do now is there's really two touch points in my life. January 1st for most people, that's, you know, the New Year's. resolution or whatever, and then right after the season ends. Those are sort of my two times of reflection. And so for the last like four or five years, you know, I'll sort of make a list of

Starting point is 00:44:28 offseason goals, like what I hope to accomplish in the off season, what I hope to get better at, like, you know, where do I find quiet time, all those things. And then on, on usually on like December 15th, for like two weeks, Chelsea and I talk about life goals. And every year, going back, I think since we were married, like we've we've sort of made a list of life goals. And some of them are super silly. Like one year I made a life goal that I wanted to complete an arm sleeve tattoo. And I actually, I actually accomplished that goal. You can control that. Yeah, I can control that. But I mean, so some of them, you know, obviously are bigger. I'll give you, I'll give you one like in 2015. This was this was our

Starting point is 00:45:14 this was our life goal list. Get a left arm sleeve complete, which we did. Win an NBA championship, which that was the year we lost to Houston in game seven after we were up three, one. So we didn't get that one. Take a great European vacation. We knocked that off the list. After three years, finally complete our Austin house, which we did. Have a healthy child.

Starting point is 00:45:41 There was a weird one for my wife that I'm not going to throw under the bus. find a home church and give to a great charity, get involved with a great charity in Austin. So those were sort of the things we wanted to accomplish that year. And I know like some of those, like obviously I said, you've got to control them. You can't control some of those. But those are the sort of the things we think about. We don't just think about like, all right, let's get another contract. It's like how do we sort of look at every aspect of our life and figure out like what is going to

Starting point is 00:46:14 our life better what are we going to find the most enjoyment with and and how do we I always kind of like to include this but like how do we include other people along that journey you know Chelsea mentioned to me like two weeks before my birthday this year she said you know me my sister and and my sister's husband were talking and we realized like how inclusive you are like you you love to have a lot of people around I'm extroverted or introverted by nature, but somehow that's the case. But you love to have a lot of people around and, you know, include people and host people. And so they like plan like a special thing for my birthday.

Starting point is 00:47:00 But like those type of things, like just including people along the journey has become really important to me. Do you just have those in a note on your phone? I noticed you looking at. Is that what you're looking at? Yeah. I mean, I've got every year going back to like 2000. 2012 on this phone. What do you use?

Starting point is 00:47:16 Did you use? It seems like an evernote or something or just regular notes? I just use regular notes. It's funny too because I've got some I've got some great notes in here. I've got, that's where I found the Christopher McCandless quote. I've got a note up here called Words of Wisdom. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:33 I write down great quotes from people. It's a really long note, actually. Bible verses, you know, I'll copy and paste from my devotional for my email that, you know, been like a something that Joel Olstein said. I'll just I'll just copy and paste on there. I keep a running tally in all my favorite cities of every every restaurant I go to that I love. You know, I've got

Starting point is 00:47:56 podcast ideas on here. There's a, my goal is to take my family on a, on a vacation when I retire, like my entire family, extended family, everybody. So I've got like a list of ideas for that. Like, I don't know. I just, I'm all over the place, but it's, it's, it's kind of what I do. But it's really cool. Just one or two more questions about you're on the back half of your career. So you probably, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you probably think a little bit about life after. You're planning a vacation for everybody when you get done. But I don't know why, but I thought of Steve Kerr, maybe because you guys were both great white shooters.

Starting point is 00:48:36 But it's thought of Steve Kerr. And when Steve Kerr got done, he does some work in the front office. He does a lot of TV work. and he becomes a great coach. And he's literally great at all of them. You have a podcast, you're really thoughtful interviewer. It's not just a standard Q&A. It's a legit conversation with really interesting people on all walks of life,

Starting point is 00:48:57 not just your teammates, even though the ones of your teammates are really good. Do you want to be a GM? Do you want to be on TV? Do you want to be a coach? Or do you want to have nothing to do with basketball? I'm curious, what do you think when it's over? What do you want to do? Yeah, I mean, there's really two short.

Starting point is 00:49:12 of routes to take and and the first route would be you know basketball related and you know I would be I would be interested in doing front office work I would be less inclined to coach you know and in terms of the media stuff I don't see myself being sort of a broadcaster or an analyst on like a like a network channel or anything like that. I have a hard time with that just because like you go to work and at the end of it like no one won or loss.

Starting point is 00:49:50 You know, it's to me the exciting part if I was to do something and media would be to like build something to actually build like a media company to acquire talent to really think outside the box

Starting point is 00:50:06 and figure out a way to tell great stories You know, I think for every athlete who has any desire to work in media, you know, Strayhan is sort of the blueprint for us because he gets to sort of do both. He gets to do his Good Morning America stuff and then he gets to talk about football on Sundays. You know, I would go a step further. Like, for me, the guy is Bourdain. You know, he uses food to tell stories about history and culture.

Starting point is 00:50:40 And so that's kind of my interest in doing this podcast, is to really just ask questions, be curious, get to know people. The second route would be to do something that has nothing to do with basketball. And the idea of sort of completely reinventing yourself at, I'm 33 now, so let's say 35 or 37 or 38, Like that sort of idea or notion of reinventing yourself at a later stage in life is both terrifying and exciting at the same time. I think as I've gotten closer and closer to retirement, and I realize that I'm on the, you know, sort of the last, let's say, third or 25% of my career at this point, as I've gotten closer, I've realized that I don't want to close any door. because when you retire, you know, you don't know sort of what your life looks like or what your goals are, you know, what do you want to do in the next phase? And so for me, like, right now,

Starting point is 00:51:51 it's just about really building relationships, building networks, and I don't want to say dabbling, but like just pursuing things in a reasonable sort of way. I obviously have a full-time job as an NBA player, but like pursuing things like the podcast or, you know, going to dinner with Goldman's Goldman Sachs execs, like doing things like that where you're just like pursuing things you're interested in and who knows where that leads in four or five years. Really interesting. I'm curious to see as it goes. But obviously, for now, you're going to I'm going to keep playing. Keep playing, man. Keep playing for a while. But man, I really appreciate this, JJ. It's been

Starting point is 00:52:34 I had high expectations and you just killed it. And so I really appreciate you putting genuine thought. And I could tell you do. And that's what makes these things really interesting. Is this why you teamed up with LeBron and Mav Carter to be a part of uninterrupted for your Chronicles of Redick, which is an awesome name, by the way, of your podcast now? Or is that part of what you're thinking of, because they're building a media company. Is that what it's part of your thought process? It was.

Starting point is 00:53:07 I think the opportunity there, look, as of now, like I don't have any sort of equity in uninterrupted or anything like that. But, you know, I think the thought process was looking at what Mav and LeBron are doing and being a part of that for sure, but also learning. I think if you look at what Mav has done for LeBron's career, it's hard to argue that he's been, less than, you know, excellent. I mean, they've absolutely killed it in every aspect. The only probably black eye on the thing was the decision in 2010, you know, the infamous sort of TV interview he did when he said he's taking his talents to South Beach. But other than that, Mav has done an incredible job of managing his, managing LeBron's career,

Starting point is 00:53:53 his career outside of basketball. And, you know, LeBron and I, while we're not, we're not close, we know each other. Like we think about things in a lot of the same ways. And I know Mab does too. Mab and I have had some unbelievable conversations over the last year since I met him last June. And so, yeah, so that was really why I wanted to sort of be associated with uninterrupted and do the podcast on that platform. Well, thanks for doing it, man. It's really good.

Starting point is 00:54:21 I'm pretty picky, as I'm sure you are about podcast, especially interview style podcast. I like the stories like cereal and S-Town. all those. I listen to all that stuff too. But if I feel like an interview is not thoughtful, not prepared, not curious, I shut it off and you, you check all those boxes. So it's cool to hear an active world-class athlete doing it. And it's really cool to see you, man. And thank you so much for being here. I'd love to do this again, man, at some point in the future as we both progress. Absolutely. We'll definitely do this again. I'll check back in when you're on episode 742. You're absolutely killing it, man.

Starting point is 00:55:01 Thank you. Very impressive. Hopefully before then. And like I said, I spent a good amount of time in Philly. It'd be cool to catch up at person at some point when we're both in town, man. So thanks so much, JJ. All right. Thank you. All right, man. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to LearningLeadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur,

Starting point is 00:55:25 CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show. This episode is brought to you by my friends at Callaway Golf. Calloway's business and marketing approach has turned heads over the last several years, helping the company make a dramatic turnaround from losing millions of dollars per year to being a leader in the industry. products like the GB epic driver, steelhead XR irons, and Calloway's Chrome Soft golf ball are aimed at avid golfers looking for premium performance.

Starting point is 00:56:11 And the coolest part about this partnership is we're doing a giveaway. Yes, we're giving away the number one selling driver of 2017, the GB epic driver. All you have to do is put your favorite leadership, quote, pulled from an episode of The Learning Leader Show on Twitter or Instagram. So pull your favorite leadership quote that any of the greatest leadership minds over the last three years from The Learning Leader Show has said, quote them on Twitter or Instagram and tag my name at Ryan Hawk 12 at Ryan Hawk 1-2 on Twitter or Instagram. My team will gather all of the quotes and you can enter as many times you like.

Starting point is 00:56:56 The more times that you enter, the better chance you have of winning. and over the course of a few months, we will gather them all, and then we will draw a random winner, and my friends at Callaway will send you the GB epic driver. Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing all of your great responses on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Hawk 12,

Starting point is 00:57:14 and thank you to my friends at Callaway Golf. By the way, Steve Wojahowski, I don't know. Do you know him? No, so he followed me on Twitter and out of the blue, and I think he might have commented about the podcast and I was like yeah you should come on he's like I don't think I'm like big enough to go on I said what are you talking about yeah so he so he recommended your podcast to me your pot besides serial when I was like trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my podcast like your podcast was the first podcast I ever listened to what yeah I think two episodes this was probably oh man I guess almost two years ago go now. You had, it was just, honestly, it was two people that I, I couldn't even tell you who the two people were.

Starting point is 00:58:08 I listened to both episodes all the way through. I loved, like, just the conversational format of it. And, yeah, so your podcast was sort of a guide for me. That's crazy, man. That's nuts. You know what's funny, Spolstra, the coach of the Heat, sent a note to, there's a guy named Patrick Patrick Lanchione.

Starting point is 00:58:28 I don't know if you heard him. He wrote a bunch of really good books on leadership and team building. And Spolstra sent an email to him saying, I heard you on the Learning Leaders Show. And I love to have you come speak to our team, come to games, do all this stuff. It was crazy.

Starting point is 00:58:45 And so Pat and his team sent it to me. And they said, wow, like we've never had this happen before where an NBA coach or anyone of that stature is basically trying to, they want to hire him based on him just doing an hour long podcast. It's pretty cool, man. That's, that's amazing. Yeah, that is amazing.

Starting point is 00:59:02 And I never, I don't know, Spolstra. I've never obviously talked to. I don't know how to get in touch with him. I'd love to, but it was, it was neat just that he said that. And he's, yeah, we'd never talk. It's cool of, like, I've, I've had a few instances of that where, you know, someone random that, like, is in a different profession and, you know, very successful, like, or somebody like that, you know, just will be like, hey, man, I really enjoy the podcast. And I'm like,

Starting point is 00:59:28 you listen to my podcast.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 217: JJ Redick - "You've Never Arrived. You're Always Becoming."

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