The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 221: Phil Jones - What To Say To Influence And Impact Others (Magic Words)

Starting point is 00:00:00 I learned that success leaves clues and I started to study the people that were performing with great results. And I learned that they were not superhuman. They were just normal people applying themselves towards being brilliant at the basics. They were doing the basics to a high standard consistently. And that's what I built my success upon. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thanks so much for being here.

Starting point is 00:00:26 It is Mindful Monday. Go to LearningLeader.com. Enter your email address. join thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world to further the dialogue on the latest trends, topics in leadership, how we can better serve and lead others. Now, on to tonight's featured leader. Wow, this one is so good with Phil Jones, started his business at just 14 years of age, clearly demonstrated the qualities of a budding entrepreneur. He's now a best-selling author. Traveling the world has spoken on five continents to over two.

Starting point is 00:01:01 million people. His latest book is titled Exactly What to Say. Now, this one's so good that I don't want to give away too much, but a few of the things we got into, the characteristics of the greatest sales professionals in the world. And I promise you, they are different than what you might think. And then his daily practice for how he runs his business, whether you work at a big company or you're an entrepreneur, I guarantee you, Phil's process will help you. This one is full of the magic words that Phil uses to influence and impact others. And I promise you'll get a lot out of it. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Phil Jones. Phil, man, I've been looking forward to this one since your team sent me your book exactly what to say. The magic words for influence and impact.

Starting point is 00:01:51 Being a sales professional myself, I love speaking with other guys who study the art and science and the history around persuasion and selling and the profession of helping. customers and I love this man. So welcome to the Learning Leader Show. Well, thank you for having me on the show. It's a delight to be here. Phil, so I'm curious. You've done a, you've been an incredible salesperson yourself, sales professional. You've led others who have done it and you teach millions of people and five continents all over the world. I'm curious from your perspective and all the studying you've done. What are some of the common characteristics of the greatest sales professionals in the world?

Starting point is 00:02:33 What a great question to kick us off. Common traits of winners, that's what we're looking for, right? Yeah, I like it. So I think firstly is dogged determination, persistence, great attitude, can do things, all the things that we've heard a million times. So maybe let's look at some of the differences, some of the more subdued variations. And one of the qualities that I see in abundance that doesn't get celebrated so much in rock stars in the sales world is that of curiosity. It's this continued demand for the fact that better is possible. It's this self-personal responsibility towards the fact that there must be a better way.

Starting point is 00:03:09 There must be another way. There must be some thought around how I can help this situation be improved. So curiosity for improvement is something I see. Another great quality that I see a lot in rock star sales professionals is they detach their self from the outcome. What they do is they become very much about service of the goal of what. what the other person is looking to go and achieve. And I see a lot run around right now of what it means to be great in sales.

Starting point is 00:03:35 And we see kind of movies about this thing. And we see people celebrated on the internet about being superstar salespeople. And what they do is they celebrate the day the contract is signed or the day they collect the check or pick up the cash. The rock star professionals I've seen are the ones that quietly perform in the background, celebrating when their client or their prospect or the buyer achieves the outcome that was promised for them the day they sold them the thing. That's a big, big, big difference to long-term success. And when sales used to be celebrated as kind of selling ice to, you know, an igloo owner, we live in a very different world from that right now. And I think the people that are really

Starting point is 00:04:16 getting it are those that are taking a long-term view, understanding when they invest in the relationship of their prospect or the buyer, what they end up with is somebody who's going to come back time and time again and be a champion for the brand at heart too. Phil, one of the things when people listen to podcast or books on Audible about the profession of selling, and by the way, I love your answer. I think it's so good, especially the fact that you're looking to go deeper as opposed to just the people who have a good attitude or a doggedness, the fact that curiosity is a huge trait that I look for in people in general, leaders and certainly in sales professionals.

Starting point is 00:04:51 But I'm curious about your background, how you became, at quite a young age, became a, someone who is a thought leader in the profession of selling, even at the time, I believe when you were 15 years old, you were earning more money than the people who were teaching you based on your ability to sell. So can you share more a little bit about your background and how you came to be a guy who travels the world, helping people become better sales professionals? Sure, absolutely. I have two fantastic parents that got me into a situation where I was at a school that was probably a little bit too good for me. And it's good being at a school that's too good for you. And by school, I mean British equivalent of school. I'm like 12 years of age at the time. And more so than university.

Starting point is 00:05:36 And I'm at a school where the majority of my peer group are in a better financial position that I am in. And they have all the things that that would typically mean. You know, they have the right sneakers, the right backpack. They wear the right soccer boots. Everything is good for them. And I'm a little bit jealous. So I'm thinking, how do I go about trying to resolve this?

Starting point is 00:05:54 And I learned one thing that many of these people didn't have is they didn't have so much of a solid relationship or time with their parents. Yet what my mum would do would make my sandwiches for me every day. So it sounds like a littlest thing, but what I learned I could do is I could sell my mum's homemade sandwiches that I didn't like too much and was become a little bit kind of disappointed by. And I could earn enough money from selling my mom's sandwiches to go and buy myself a decent cook lunch and have changed to be able to pick up some sweets on the way home, some candy. So I was in a good, spot of learning that you could hustle from early days and that if you could add value to

Starting point is 00:06:30 something, attach a story towards it, then you could start to generate some returns. By the age of 14, I wanted to say, well, how do I turn this into something that doesn't just mean I can put some food in my belly over lunchtime? I can make some real extra money. So at 14, I was knocking on the doors of my neighbours, asking them whether they would be interested in having their cars washed. I learned some things real quick. You see, some said yes, some said no, but most just asked me how much I would charge, which I very quickly realized meant they were remarkably interested, providing my prices were reasonable. Did okay with this little car cleaning business, so much so that by the age of 15, I wasn't going to school quite as often as I should. And that's where I got

Starting point is 00:07:09 invited in questioning my attendance. And when I got questioned about my attendance, my response to my school teachers was, how much money are you making, sir? And they didn't like that question. They chose not to answer it mostly. But at the time, I knew I was making more money than my school teachers. And I'm not intending to say to anybody that education isn't a good thing. It's a great thing. And I'm a big, big champion for going out and getting the education we need. I continued my studies part-time around my businesses. And by the age of 18, I was faced with a dilemma. I'd already had seven different independent businesses through my teens that I'd worked around my studies. Parents wanted me to go to university to go get a good degree to make them feel like great

Starting point is 00:07:48 parents. And what I wanted to do by alternative was to get my education in the field. So I thought what would happen if I could go get a big job, the kind of job you need a great degree for without the degree. And I posed this to my parents. They said it couldn't be done yet three weeks later, I proved them wrong and became the youngest ever sales manager for one of the largest department store groups in the UK. And there's a beautiful thing about being in a senior leadership position at the age of 18. Because at 18 years of age, you just don't know what you don't know. What would I do become successful, I'd do the stuff I was taught, what I was told, I became curious about what everybody was doing that was successful ahead of me. I learned that success leaves clues, and I started

Starting point is 00:08:28 to study the people that were performing with great results, and I learned that they were not superhuman. They were just normal people applying themselves towards being brilliant at the basics. They were doing the basics to a high standard consistently, and that's what I built my success upon. I went through a numerous kind of quantity of stores with that department store working up and down the country, being dedicated to leading teams. And when you are young and leading teams of 40, 50, 60, 70 people responsible for multi-million pound turnovers, you face a lot of resistance, an awful lot of resistance, a lot of prejudice towards your age and your ability. And it taught me one of the most magnificent things. It taught me that respect is nothing that you should be given.

Starting point is 00:09:11 Respect is something that needs to be earned. And I learned that if I'm going to teach people something, I need to win my credibility in that thing before I can pass on those skills to others. So I studied from the best. I sparred with the best. I followed. I observed. And I looked to see what I could do to understand what the principles were from people who were getting rock star awesome results.

Starting point is 00:09:29 I'd test them myself. I'd learn what worked. And then I would then pass that stuff onto others. And it served my career really well. Kind of give potted history from there. I was involved in big project turnarounds with the largest department store retail chain in the UK. I became head of retail commercial director for two Premier League soccer clubs, went on to build a property business that turned over 240 million at its peak. And then for the last 10 years,

Starting point is 00:09:54 I've been working with people who need to sell for a living. And this started from me delivering one-day sales training courses to small independent local business owners that needed to make a living. And today I get to spend my time serving audiences around the world. Yet still, I think it's fascinating. I only know how to do three things right. There's only three things I'm any good at. And one is finding more customers. Two is getting them to come back more often. And three is getting them to spend more money when they shop. And now I seem to be able to do pretty much what I like from mastering those three things.

Starting point is 00:10:25 Wow. So you've built a career out of this out of now teaching others to go out and do this within a business. So what does your day to day look like now? Day to day is different every single day. So I will deliver anywhere in and around 100 presentations a year that could take me all around the world, working with groups of people as small as eight and ten, up to as large as as 5,000, and inspiring them through practical skills and application as to things that they can do differently in their existing conversations to result in more of the outcomes that they would like.

Starting point is 00:10:58 But day to day, what else do I do? I hang out. I go to the gym. I spend time with my wife. I walk along the waterfront here in New York City. I catch up with friends on the telephone. I network towards the people that I know I'm going to need future business with. I look to see where I can help others in their success and I remain focused on saying how can I be better today than I was yesterday and how can I be better tomorrow than where I was today in so many areas of my life. But normal is something that I've learned is not very good for me. I like change. I like the ability to always be on the go and know that better is always in front of me. And when I come back to that point I made at the beginning about curiosity, that's where I've always been. It's like if somebody else can do it,

Starting point is 00:11:39 can somebody else be me? So wherever I've got to in my career, I then make myself uncomfortable again and hustle things up. So we mentioned about the new book. The new book is my fifth book. And it's very much all around word choices, knowing exactly what to say to have more influence over the conversation. But what have I done with this book? I've set myself a ridiculous goal of saying that what I'd like to do is to get it distributed to over a million people because I've never done that before. So now I'm having to do things that I've never done before in order to be able to achieve that outcome. And I think for everybody listening in right now is find comfort and discomfort, because that's where growth comes from. What are some of the ridiculous things you're doing to get

Starting point is 00:12:17 this book to a million people? Other than this podcast. Well, this podcast clearly isn't ridiculous, but I kicked off a few things. I got a great little strategy that's working through from people who've done good things for me in the past, where I'm gifting quantities of the book towards them for them to be able to gift onto others. I've got a virtual book tour that's going around the world, where what I'm doing is appearing in Facebook lives towards a variety of different groups. I'm doing up to three of those any given day. I am looking to be able to have my book piggyback other people's books in their speaking careers is by finding people who value my work is having them utilize my book to be a two plus two

Starting point is 00:12:56 equals five when they're doing their speaking gigs. All sorts of just very common sense but creative ideas that mean that we are interrupting enough people's day for long enough to say you might want to look at this too. Love it, man. Phil, or if you're good, can we dive into some of my notes from the book? Sure, let's go any way you choose. Some of the magic words or phrases because, again, I think studying wordsmiths and people who understand what words can potentially move people or influence and impact them, I love that this is a topic he's written an entire book about. And I went through each page and then marked Mark notes. We won't get to all of them, obviously, but I'll get to some of them. And then

Starting point is 00:13:38 obviously everyone else can get the book. Hopefully people from all around the world listening this will add to that number, which will put you over a million. But let's dive in. Okay. So we'll start right at the beginning, man. Using the phrase, so what I'll say is I'll share maybe some of the words and maybe thoughts here and there. And then if you could expand a little bit, I think that would be helpful. Does that sound good? Sure. Yeah, sounds great. So start right at the beginning. I'm not sure if it's for you, but, and the magic word in that phrase is right after the comma, the word but. And there's even more to it than just that in fairness. And let me back up a second to help the listener understand what this is all about. And when it comes down to decision making, one of

Starting point is 00:14:18 the other big differences between people winning and coming second, and we know what second place pays in our world, is knowing exactly what to say, when to say, and how to make it count. This little book that I wrote was possibly the hardest piece of work that I pulled together because it was about condensing or distilling like a lifetime's worth of work into 15,000 words because I learned that people are great at buying books but not so good at reading them. So what I wanted to do was to be able to create something that is distilled, practical, purposeful and something that people could instantly apply. And I filled it up with examples, precise examples of what I call magic words. And magic words are words that talk straight to the subconscious brain. And subconscious is powerful in the decision-making process because it has no maybe. You know in your sales career how much maybe can cost you on the path towards success.

Starting point is 00:15:09 So many people are focused on turning noes to yeses. Yet if they just focused on turning maybes to yeses, then have an abundance of success in their direction. What this book does is it allows us to be able to steer people towards a yes or a no, steer people towards a predetermined outcome purely by learning how to talk straight towards the subconscious and every example is something that talks towards that part of somebody's brain which acts on reflex on impulse it doesn't have to think and as sales professionals if we can plug into the path of least resistance we can help people make decisions quicker and easier for that's all

Starting point is 00:15:42 we are as sales professionals is we are decision catalysts or professional mind maker uppers that's what our job is the first example that we utilize here in the book that you've just referred to is a way of being able to introduce just about anything to just about anybody in a completely rejection-free manner. And when I hear that people are fearful of rejection, if I can give them a rejection-free opening, we already get over one of the biggest first hurdles in the conversational circuit. And what we do is we can present our idea to somebody rejection-free by positioning it to the left or to the right of somebody. And we do that with the magic words, I'm not sure if it's for you. See, if I was to say to you, hey, look, Ryan, I'm not sure if it's for you.

Starting point is 00:16:24 your little voice inside your head says, well, firstly, I'll be the judge of that. Behind that, it says, well, what is it? Tell me what it is. And that now becomes something that curiosity is fired in your mind. You cannot help but listen to the rest. Now, the word but that then follows this has the power it has in nearly every other area of conversation, but should be avoided in most conversations. Why? Because it negates everything that was said prior to it. You've probably been on the receiving end of feedback at some point. Say when you're on a football field. Hey Ryan, we love what we're doing. We love your creativity.

Starting point is 00:16:56 We love your innovation of what you're trying to do to get that running back into that position, into that play. We love the fact that you're trying to do something unique and interesting. But what is the only thing that you remember is everything that follows the butt? It negates everything that's prior to it. So when you suggest to somebody, hey, I'm not sure if it's for you, but subconscious voice hears, you might want to look at this. We can utilize this in so many different examples. If you've got a product that you want to be able to bring into a conversation with somebody, it's, hey, I'm not sure if it's for you, but you wouldn't happen to know somebody who looks like.

Starting point is 00:17:29 And then you insert a description of the perfect person you're looking for, even if the perfect person you're looking for is the one that you're looking at. Here's what happens next, is they either opt in themselves and say, tell me some more about that, or the very worst that somebody can say, I'll have a thing for you. That's as bad as it gets. Yeah. So there's nothing more that really we need to be able to do is just, to think about scenarios ourselves is that if we've got something we want somebody to take a look at,

Starting point is 00:17:58 how can you utilize those words to put it into practice to have more people, at least having some consideration to take a look at what you want them to look at and get over that first hurdle? It's, I think, interesting, a mark of good recruiters is they'll, they have different ways of phrasing this, but they'll ask, do you know anybody in your network who may be good, good for this role or even to sometimes leaders and businesses. Do you know anybody instead of just outright saying, hey, would you want to do this? Because sometimes people say, well, what do you mean, do I know anybody? That person, just me, I'd be great at that because it's some big time job or whatever it may be. And it's almost a way from a psychological perspective. And I don't know if it

Starting point is 00:18:43 relates perfectly if I'm not sure of this for you, but, but it seems like it is a little bit to say, same psychology. Yeah. And let's build on that one example, because I want to prove something here. is that you can change one or two words, you can change everything in a conversation. The worst time to think about the thing you're saying is in the moment where you're saying it. And people are far more predictable than we give ourselves credit for. People in their day-to-day routines will have templated word documents on their desktop to save them writing the same thing over and over again, but fail to have templated conversations to serve them in the same way.

Starting point is 00:19:14 You've just said that in the recruitment world, people say, do you know anybody? Now, the difficulty with that closed question, regardless on the fact that it will work, it will work well is understand how much better it would work is if you could rephrase that. Well, who do you know is again too direct? What if I was to say you wouldn't happen to know? What have I now done just in language is I've thrown down the challenge, the very fact that I've suggested you possibly don't know somebody has created more internal motivation inside of you to potentially lean in a touch more and look to prove me wrong.

Starting point is 00:19:49 Instead of me saying anybody or somebody, what would happen if I said, just one person. You wouldn't happen to know maybe just one person. Now all of a sudden I've made the request sound more reasonable. It means that actually you're an idiot if you don't. So I'm creating a path of least resistance through language to create an internal motivation in somebody to do the thing that I want by turning good to better. What happens if in every business in the land they could just look at their most common conversations, tune up the dials a touch? The impact that would have on conversation is just phenomenal. And that's where I spend most of the time doing my work because most companies have good core products. They have good core people. People's

Starting point is 00:20:28 attitude are in the right place. People are dedicated, committed, want to succeed. Yet still, so few people, so few organizations put the emphasis on getting their words right because they're fearful of giving people a script because they want to take away that they don't want to take away their personality. But this is a myth of by itself too because we've all seen movies and cried. That was just an actor reading a script. The difficult difference was is they knew. that they had to embody those words, deliver them with their own personality. And if scripts didn't exist, Shakespeare would be a hash of a scenario today. Where do you learn this stuff?

Starting point is 00:21:05 From getting it wrong too many times, right? You know, I was working this out the other day. You know, I've been in somewhere in the region of 120,000 face-to-face negotiations. That's a lot. Yeah. And in doing so, you pick up patterns. that work, you program things into your habits. But what you also have to decide is that if you want to bottle brilliance, you've got to be brave enough to say, what was it that worked and what

Starting point is 00:21:34 was it, I need to do better? What was it that worked and what do I need to do better? And salespeople, by their very nature, are notoriously lazy. They enjoy making it up as they go along. They enjoy sometimes even making it harder for themselves because they like the sport of it. Yeah, what can happen is all you need to be is one step ahead of the other person. And just like somebody playing a game of chess, we can play the same thing out in conversation knowing that when we say this, they're going to say that. And I know the next three moves. It comes through experience.

Starting point is 00:22:05 So anybody listening in right now, I don't expect them to be able to replicate what I can do in a conversation overnight. I would encourage them, though, to go out and try things, put them into practice, and enjoy getting it wrong because that's where you learn best. So the next one I'm going to talk about is, I think, a form of priming your brain, which is a lot of what you're doing, but priming it for hopefully getting a response or people to open themselves up or to be more open minded, giving you better odds of selling your new idea. Maybe it's an internal meeting and it's with somebody who's notoriously hard to commit to doing something different or to be innovative in regards to. Just getting a new idea. So when introducing a new idea, you'd say, how open-minded are you? Completely.

Starting point is 00:22:59 This is a game-changer. If you just adopt this into your language patterns, you move nearly every 50-50 scenario to 90-10 in your favor. Think of how this would work, right? If you had a room full of 1,000 people, and Ryan, I know you speak to, so if you had a thousand people in front of you, and you said to that room of 1,000 people, who in this room would see themselves as open-minded and you shut your hand up in the air, how many of the thousand hands would follow you?

Starting point is 00:23:22 All of them. Somewhere like all of them. So we can use that completely to our advantage because what's the alternative? Nobody wants to be a closed-minded person. Nobody's going to admit to that in conversation where other ears are listening. Right. So if you want to talk towards something that people are all automatically going to guarantee to opt into before they even know what the thing is, pre-facing the thing with a question, how open-minded would you be makes it almost impossible to say. say no because the only way they can say no is if they admit to being closed-minded.

Starting point is 00:23:54 The examples here are abundant. And let's take it outside of a sales scenario because everybody's really selling something. I know we have a lot of young leaders in this podcast here today. What if they're looking for a promotion, a chance? They see something within their organization or an opportunity ahead of them for them to be able to do something differently. What if they were to say to their employer or their leader or their bosses, how open-minded would you be to giving me a chance to be able to explore this new avenue. How open-minded would you be to allow me to take the lead on this next project? How open-minded would you be to?

Starting point is 00:24:25 We just create this. Path of Least Resistance is yes. So I just, do you open your speeches like this sometimes? Sometimes. Sometimes? Really? What is a great way to begin a keynote speech? You're in a room.

Starting point is 00:24:42 There's 5,000 people and you have, I'm sure there's different topics, obviously, but you have a core message. You're talking about. exactly what to say and magic words. What are some great ways to begin a keynote? This is not a plan question at all. I think you could tell, but I'm curious, what are some things that you've said that have really got a keynote kicked off right? Well, the bulk of my work sits in the area of sales for non-salespeople. The very thought of somebody being a salesperson is something that makes many a person cringe. And if I ask somebody to think about what they think about salespeople,

Starting point is 00:25:15 they see something monstrous in their minds. So quite often what I will do when I start off a keynote presentation is I'd ask people to think about some adjectives that would describe a stereotypical salesperson and whether I want them to mouth them out loud or whether I want them to see them in their minds eye, I don't mind. If I've got a giant room full of people, I might plant the little words back into their head. But every single time when I say, look, throw some words at me that would describe a stereotypical salesperson, I get slimy, sleazy, used car, pushy, obnoxious, dishonest. I get that same list of words. So I can. either paraphrase them back or I can wait until I'm listened and I repeat them.

Starting point is 00:25:53 What I then might say to them is I say, well, what happens if I just change one of those words? And I ask you to reach for some adjectives that wouldn't describe a stereotypical salesperson, but by alternative would describe a professional salesperson. How might the adjectives change? I now receive the polarizing opposites of the exact sets of words that people have given me a few moments ago. So they were saying dishonest. I now get truthful. They were saying that they were push you, I now get good listener. They were saying that what they are is like a used car salesperson.

Starting point is 00:26:26 I get somebody saying that they're knowledgeable and that they're informative. I get the complete opposite. I then ask those people as how would they feel if those words were used to describe them? They say they would feel good. I'd say, well, why is it that I change one word and you change them all?

Starting point is 00:26:40 And how often can we change one word in our daily conversations and then change everything? We are missing out right now on the power of thousands of pieces of success because people are scared about entering into a conversation with people because it's unpredictable. So they hide behind a keyboard. They want to do everything via a mouse or some form of distance communication and nobody wants to engage in conversation. Yet it's our ability to converse with others that is created just about everything that's ever happened because it's in that

Starting point is 00:27:08 area of grey in the middle that the magic happens. And that's what I want to teach people to be able to do is to find scenarios where everybody wins. Customer wins, salesperson wins, company wins and we get there from being able to collaborate and communicate in conversation. Questions start conversations, conversations lead to relationships. Relationships create opportunities and opportunities lead to sales. That, my friends, will never go out fashion. Wow, what is your method for prospecting to get new? Maybe you don't need it.

Starting point is 00:27:38 Maybe you're having to push it away because you get too many inquiries. But I'm curious, all salespeople, I think, have a good process for prospecting to making sure that their pipeline is full and it's for you. This would be teaching, speaking, being around others. What is your method for prospecting? There are hundreds of methods for prospecting. And I think there's a backup point that we need to take. The majority of people when it comes to prospecting,

Starting point is 00:28:04 and I was having a conversation with a very successful salesperson over lunch today, and he says he's been out knocking on doors. Now, this isn't 1976. We don't need to just knock on every door and hope to find. something that we're looking for inside, we can be a little bit smarter. Starting point would need to be, well, who do you really want to do business with? Now, have you ever been responsible for looking after children, Ryan? Mm-hmm. My own.

Starting point is 00:28:30 So your kids, how many kids you got? Five. So you've got five kids and what you imagine you're in a shopping mall. You're looking around a shopping mall, you see something you quite like the look of. You walk towards the thing, you like it more than you thought you would. And in that moment, you turn back for the opinion of the children to see what they might think. Yeah. And in that precise moment in time, they are gone.

Starting point is 00:28:47 Right. Now, I'd imagine that thought, that feeling would be devastation, despair. Then the reality kicks in and says, I must find the children. I mean, with five of them, you might be quite grateful in that moment in time just for some peace. However, then at which point you're thinking, I've got to find these kids. Yeah. So what do you do? You go looking for some help.

Starting point is 00:29:09 Who are the people you look for for help? People who are working in the store, others around the store that are shopping that may have seen them and anybody else that may be around. And what is the description you give of your kids to increase your chance of finding them? Have you seen a young, eight-year-old, blonde girl? Right. You give them everything you've got. You're probably reaching for your phone, showing a picture, you're talking about what they're wearing. Because you know, the better the description you give, the more you're going to increase your chance of finding them.

Starting point is 00:29:35 And I'm guessing that if you lose your eight-year-old blonde daughter, then that's the one you get back or you'd like to get back because you've become quite fond of her over the years. Uh-huh. Yeah. The exact same thing is true in our sales process. process. People forget to go looking for the people that they really want. And isn't it true that you know what you would do with a missing person yet the people that aren't in your pipeline right now, the people who aren't in your sales ledger right now, the people who aren't in your bank account right now are just missing people. So if you'd like to find the missing people, the first thing you have to do is to define who the missing people are. When you know who it is you're looking for, you can then find where those people hang out. Better than that, you can find out who the people are already hang out with those people and you can approach those people with some leverage. You could use the words you wouldn't happen to know just one person, somebody who looks just like this, insert missing description of the missing person, and watch how other people can help you find your people. See, we're not looking to find everybody. When I ask somebody, how many brand new customers do you think you're looking for?

Starting point is 00:30:33 The answer I get back is lots, and that's the wrong answer. Because there's a number that's too many. I mean, if I think about your business right now, if I gave you a list of 787 great people for you to podcast interview, you'd say that's great, but feel. tell me who the top 10 are. There's too many. And in every business, there's a number that's too many. There's a number that's too few that means there's a number between those that's just right. And you get to pick it.

Starting point is 00:30:58 So I would start everybody's prospecting activity with a prospect list that is at least 10 times the size of the number of new customers that'd like in the next 12 months. And people think that's a big scary list. More often it's not. Then you'd like seven brand new customers a month. And you're like, okay. well who are the 70 people you're going to go speak to then this month and they say well I don't know I'm just going to go out and try and get everybody I possibly can and that's the mistake if they knew who the 70 people are who they were specifically and thought about it a little and said what could I do to get in front of this person they could probably figure out just the exact way they would need to prospect as opposed to screaming and shouting and everybody and hoping something's going to stick so how do you incorporate that to your business I know exactly who my birthday audiences are so the majority of of my speaking work comes through organizations that have a number of entrepreneurial type people within an existing network. So I do a huge amount of business towards franchises, towards

Starting point is 00:31:59 multi-level marketing, towards direct sales, towards healthcare, and what do I go and do? So say, for example, I wanted to acquire a brand new healthcare client. I'd find out who one of their most important customers are. I'd gift day. In fact, I'm going to tell you exactly something I've done, exact strategy that's worked out from last week. I'm not going to mention the name of the company, but I know that franchises are great for me. Why? Because they have like 950 perfect customers for me already within their account base.

Starting point is 00:32:24 I don't have to go one to one to 950. Okay. So what I've done is I've said, well, who would be the perfect one? There's one that highlights himself in my list. I've then looked at who do I know that trusts me that already knows that person. I've identified who that person is. What I've then gone and done is I've reached out to the person that knows the person that I'd like the introduction into and said,

Starting point is 00:32:44 Hey, buddy, you know that we're looking to better do some more things this year and that I've invested some money with you about the way that you can better market my business. Possibly the biggest thing that you could do for me is to open up a door or into this individual. They've said, great, how are we going to do it? I said, well, how about this? You've done some great things for me. What I'd like to be able to do is to gift you 50 copies of my brand new book, but not for you for you to be able to gift onto somebody else. So how about I do this? I shoot you an email saying that I'm going to gift you four opportunities to gift 50 copies of my brand new book.

Starting point is 00:33:14 people that have done great things for you. One of the people I like you to pick is this person. You're going to forward that email on and guess what happens? We get our ability to be able to make a open door introduction into a CEO of one of the largest franchise organizations within the US where the opening introduction is me delivering them a gift for which they can only say one thing back to a gift, which is. Thank you. Right. Now a gift with permission though is what's important here. The gift without permission would be pushy. The gift with permission and requires gives the thank you. What does thank you really mean while we're on the, what does a word really mean? So if somebody says the words thank you to your arm, what does that mean?

Starting point is 00:33:52 They're grateful for what you've done so you could probably ask for something. Yeah, and even more than gratitude. The reason we give thanks is because we felt indebted. The thank you repays the debt. It's like a Chaldini's reciprocity. You got it. And that's exactly where this comes from, just a very simple example of which. So now what we have is we have this situation where somebody who otherwise would have been pushing on the door on, my first exchange with this person is them thanking me. Look at how that reverse engineers a prospect scenario. They're saying to me that we're all booked up for speakers for this year, but we'd love to you to come and talk for us in 2019. Perfect, man.

Starting point is 00:34:31 That's pretty cool to hear your process. But what are we looking at here? We're looking to use third-party credibility. We're looking at saying who are the people that we'd love to do business with first. and we're looking to reverse engineer a permission-based inbound opportunity. Now, if I knocked on that door forever and a day, might I have won the business through persistence? Absolutely. But let's just look at what's easier, what's nicer, and what is so much of a better dance for people.

Starting point is 00:34:58 And when people talk to me about prospecting, I often relate it back to the dating game. Now, when people were dating, they were brilliant at prospecting, and they knew the importance of not moving too quickly. They knew the importance of strategizing and slowing things down, bumping. into the right girl or the right guy at the right time, then being able to invite them for coffee, then being able to invite them for dinner and dancing this thing out slowly where it really mattered. See, when you choose your prospects, you can then plan the dance over the coming months because it really matters. The mistake most organizations make is they don't choose their prospects, they don't take them on the dance, they go home with anybody who's willing and able.

Starting point is 00:35:36 Wow. Okay. Taking notes, man. This is really good, Phil. I wish we had even more time, but this is, I didn't realize, and I feel bad about this. I didn't realize how good you would be at telling your story. And that's a huge mistake in my part because you're a professional speaker and a writer about using the best words. This is just really good stuff, man. So a few more things. So I'm thinking about someone that's bought in.

Starting point is 00:36:03 And I think some of the best sales professionals I've been around, they do a great job of maximizing each and every opportunity. And some of them use the phrase. as you would use, which is, quote, just one more thing. Yeah. And just one more thing can grow in order. It absolutely can. But where is better positioned and something that very few people look to be able to do is in that area of a downsell.

Starting point is 00:36:30 And, you know, we all know that there are ways that we can grow in order and we can add to it, etc. But this is a missed opportunity. And where did I learn this best? I learned it from watching television detectives in the 80s and 90s. So I'm slightly embarrassed by that, but we all, or we should either remember Colombo or go out and study Colombo, go find some YouTube videos. What Colombo would do is he would quiz his subject on the spot, hoping to get the key piece of evidence, but knowing that he wouldn't, their defense and their guard would be up. He'd look to let them off the hook. He'd look to leave

Starting point is 00:37:00 the room. The other person's relief would kick in. Their guard would drop down. He'd turn back. He'd point the finger and out of curiosity, he would say, oh, just one more thing. and at that point he could insert another idea leaving with the key piece of evidence and being able to perhaps indicate that something was a lie or something wasn't something that was quite in the way that it should have been because it came at that moment in time how many times do we go to a sales meeting expecting to pitch something big and we get into a situation where they quite like it but they can't close them the day and we're looking to be able to pack up our things but we know that if we get an order we can then grow that account pack up your things look to be

Starting point is 00:37:37 to leave. Put yourself into a situation where you're about to walk for the door. And as they think that they've got away with not buying anything on the day, you can say, oh, just one more thing. And then you can introduce something that might be a baby step towards the bigger step. If you're going in, asking them to invest $10,000 into something, what would happen if you just dropped it back down to a $450 transaction that gets them in the game, gets them pot committed, gets them to a position that you now have something worth growing and you get a transactional sale, better than leaving with nothing? And I think that's a magic. place that can put incremental success into salespeople's days in addition to just the how do I

Starting point is 00:38:14 grow an order once I've got one. Interesting. Okay. What about using the phrase most people? This is a game changer. This is a set of words that you can utilize to tell people what you want them to do without telling people what you want them to do. So the words most people are super powerful based on two very basic pieces of psychology. First piece of psychology is that people love to be led, and they love to be led by following what other people like them have done ahead of them. This is why we rely on strangers telling us that somebody is good at something via a Yelp review. I mean, I can decide a restaurant is banging based on the fact that 96 people have said they had a good time there. Even though I don't know any of those 96 people or understand what

Starting point is 00:38:58 their taste would be, I take it as gospel that these people know what they're talking about. So we like safety in numbers. There's first piece of psychology. The second piece of psychology is people like to be told what to do, but they don't like to be told what to be to do. They just like to be led and think it was their idea. So if I want somebody to do something, say I've got somebody stuck in indecision, which happens a lot in the sales process. They quite like it. They don't know what to do. Or they're stuck between two options. Do we go for the silver or the gold? They can't decide whether they have the red or the green. They can't decide whether they want six or they want 12. What I can do is I can lead their decision by saying, look, what most people would do in your circumstances is.

Starting point is 00:39:35 when I talk in terms of most people, what now happens is their little subconscious kicks in and goes, ah, I'm most people. So if that's what most people should do, then that's what I should do too. What it does is it makes that path the one of least resistance. They don't feel like they've been told what to do, but they've now just had this burst of clarity in their mind as they step towards the light. The number of examples that you can use that are abundant. What I ask is a pinky promise of everybody listening in right now, that you don't use it to get your spouse to do things you've been wishing they would do. You don't use it to be able to manipulate your children into being able to maybe step towards doing things that they've been not doing in the past. You use it purely for commercial gain in your business and only where it's ethically correct.

Starting point is 00:40:18 So pinky promises on that one, people. That kind of goes for everything, though, right? You're right. Absolutely right. And the worst thing in the world right now for me is like I'm four weeks into this book launch and I wrote a book called exactly what to say. The social pressure on me is pretty darn difficult right now. And people are like, hey, is that, is that right, Phil? I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I should have titled this differently. No, it's really good.

Starting point is 00:40:41 I encourage people to get it. And Phil, I have to say, man, I know we're winding down here. I really love to do this again with you and learn even more directly from you because there's so much here that I have. But I want to be respectful of your time. And I really enjoy this conversation. Where would you send my audience to learn more about you online? A few places, really. Best place to find everything can use it as kind of a signpost towards any of the social networks or anything that you like is to stop by my website.

Starting point is 00:41:10 Philmjones.com. Make sure we use the M. Otherwise, you find an England and Manchester United Soccer player. And that one pulling funny faces is definitely not me. And yeah, you'll find all my social platforms there. What you'll also find is it is me on social media. So if you've liked this podcast, you want to join the conversation, tell me how it's been enjoyable. you or that you've taken something and you used it. That's the stuff I love to hear about.

Starting point is 00:41:36 So that's at Phil M. Jones UK on Twitter. Same again on Instagram. And my Facebook page is Facebook.com forward slash PhilM Jones sales. So the two S is there together. But really glad to be able to join in the conversation from anybody past this conversation. But I don't want you to tell me it was good. I want you to tell me what you've implemented, what you've used and how it's worked for you. Perfect, man. Phil, one more question for you. So we got connected. through a mutual friend and with your team I did. And I'm grateful of that. But when you saw that you were going to go on a show called the Learning Leader Show,

Starting point is 00:42:13 specifically those two words, that phrase, what was the first thought that came to mind when you heard Learning Leader? Well, the first thing I liked is the fact that there is the assumption in here that leaders are always learning. And through my experience, that isn't always the case. So the fact that this is progressive, it gave me huge optimism towards the show. It made me want to check out who's this Ryan guy. And I went and checked you out. And I was blown away with some of the things that you've managed to achieve.

Starting point is 00:42:40 So great job on that one on your behalf. But the other thing I loved about the whole learning leader thing is this giant mistake that crops up in most people's mind. See, if I said to you, Ryan, what would you want to do? Do you want to do good? Do you want to do better? Or do you want to do your best? Which are those three things would you pick? My best.

Starting point is 00:42:57 And that's the mistake that nearly everybody in the world makes. because the reality of it is right now is you've already outperformed things that previously you would have called your best. And what happens is we tell these lies to ourselves. We say things like I tried my best. Now you come from a football background. How many times did you say to yourself you tried your best? But if you really looked inside yourself, you knew that there was something that was better.

Starting point is 00:43:23 It's a great point. So what we should all focus on. And I think this is a thought that jumped into my head when I had. heard the learning leader is this decision to not focus on our best but continually focus on better and that's where continually improvement comes from because what then happens is we surpass our best and that's where evolution kicks in and that's what I miss wish more young leaders will look towards is instead of saying what's right and what's wrong it's how do I get better how do I get better how do I get better knowing that the best is merely a quest towards something that we will never ever reach but we will be in the

Starting point is 00:43:58 chase a bit for eternity, but better is the way we're going to get there. Yeah, as JJ Reddick told me, you've never arrived, you're always becoming. I love that mindset. And that's a great way to put it, Phil. And a really phenomenal way to end this one, man. I really appreciate the feedback, the insightfulness that you bring to the show, man. It was really good. And I learned from it.

Starting point is 00:44:22 And I'll be sure to follow up with you about some things that I've personally implemented. And I'd love to hear from the audience as well. some things that you've implemented based on what you learn because we're all good at taking notes. We're all good at listening to books on Audible or listening to podcasts. But a lot of us fail when it comes to the implementation and execution of these ideas. And I think that's what it's all about is implementing them so that you can be a better executor and better at what you do on a day-to-day basis. And, Phil, you've definitely helped us do that, man.

Starting point is 00:44:51 Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Thank you for listening. All right, man. Thanks. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over. but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information

Starting point is 00:45:04 and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on the Learning Leader Show. This episode is brought to you by my friends at Callaway Golf. Calloway's business and marketing approach has turned heads over the last several years, helping the company make a dramatic turnaround from losing millions of dollars per year to being a leader in the industry. Products like the GB Epic Driver, Steelhead XR irons,

Starting point is 00:45:46 and Calloway's Chrome Soft Golfball are aimed at avid golfers looking for premium performance. And the coolest part about this partnership is we're doing a giveaway. Yes, we're giving away the number one selling driver of 2017, the GB Epic Driver. All you have, have to do is put your favorite leadership quote pulled from an episode of the Learning Leader Show on Twitter or Instagram. So pull your favorite leadership quote that any of the greatest leadership minds over the last three years from the Learning Leader Show has said, quote them on Twitter or Instagram and tag my name at Ryan Hawk 12 at Ryan Hawk 1-2 on Twitter or Instagram.

Starting point is 00:46:31 my team will gather all of the quotes and you can enter as many times you like the more times that you enter the better chance you have of winning. And over the course of a few months, we will gather them all and then we will draw a random winner. And my friends at Callaway will send you the GB Epic Driver. Thank you so much. I look forward to seeing all of your great responses on Twitter and Instagram at Ryan Hawk 12. And thank you to my friends at Callaway Golf. Are you still there? I'm still here.

Starting point is 00:47:04 I want to leave a clean break for you. Yeah, man, I appreciate it. I know you got to go, but God, you just killed it. I mean, really so good. So I meant it when I said, I love to talk again because that was so, so good, man. Hey, no worries. No worries. Good to be able to connect tonight.

Starting point is 00:47:22 And I appreciate what you're doing. If there's ever anything you think that I can help you with things we can collaborate on further, then, yeah, keen to be able to explore the connection further, understand more about what your goals are. So share that with me too and things that. I can do to push the podcast on and make things happen that way around. What's where are we at time? Have I got a second?

Starting point is 00:47:40 Yeah, like a minute. I think 60 seconds. Yeah. What are you looking to trying to do more of right now? What would be the one thing that maybe, you know, I could even have just a knowledge of. That's why I asked briefly out of the blue about how you kick off a keynote. I've been getting asked to do more of those just from fans of the podcast. And so I'm really working on getting better on stage.

Starting point is 00:48:03 I'm in the same speak and spell group and I read all through that on a daily basis. So I'm really working on getting better on stage. And usually it's just by getting the repetitions and getting my message clear. Okay. Sounds good. Well, I will give some thought towards what I can do to help that. And next time you have an opportunity to be able to do something, maybe let's use that as an example to say, well, how do we approach this? What do we do to be able to get that opening right?

Starting point is 00:48:30 Or how do you formulate your keynote story? I'd love to be able to help support that. I've done over 2,000 keynotes now. And, you know, I've learned what works great, what works fine, what doesn't work so well. And we'd be keen to just see what I can do to help, keep the connection alive. I love it, man. I'll be sure to send you this link when it goes live. Should be a couple weeks.

Starting point is 00:48:48 Sounds awesome. All right, man. Thanks, Phil. Thanks, buddy. All right, man. Bye. All right.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 221: Phil Jones - What To Say To Influence And Impact Others (Magic Words)

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