The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 232: It's Time To Go ALL IN (With Doug Meyer & Greg Meredith)

Starting point is 00:00:02 Here is the issue. If you're going to pursue a low odds game, the reality is that at some point, the odds will go to zero if you don't commit fully. You're never going to get across that chasm and that Thelma and Louise moment if you're basically going to keep yourself tethered to one side. But that doesn't mean taking an unfounded leap into the wild beyond. Jim Collins gave me that advice on episode 216. here on the Learning Leader show. You know, I fired a lot of bullets over the past three years building this show and this platform while working a full-time job at a big international corporation. The purpose of this episode is to announce that I have left

Starting point is 00:00:53 my full-time job at a big corporation to pursue my passion, my love, this show. this platform on a full time basis. Again, I fired a lot of bullets over the past three years. It's time to fire cannonballs. It's time for me to go all in. Welcome everyone to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk.

Starting point is 00:01:29 Thank you so much for being here. My guests tonight are my new business partners, their friends of mine, Doug Meyer and Greg Meredith. And throughout our conversation, we are describing, one, why they wanted to partner with me and why I elected to leave my full-time job to partner with them, to grow the learning leader brand, to partner with an incredible company, one of the best places to work in Ohio, a great place called Bricksey and Meyer. I could not be more excited for this, and I think you'll feel it along with me as we get going.

Starting point is 00:02:13 So thank you so much for being longtime listeners and excited to get this journey started. Ryan, we are so excited to be here with you on this podcast today. This is Greg Meredith, for those of you who listened to episode number 100, and happy to be back interviewing Ryan and also today, Doug Meyer. Ryan, I want to start with you. We want to talk about you, and it's not something that you do a lot on the podcast. For people who listen to the podcast, they know that you played college football. They know that you played in the arena league. And you've talked about on several occasions being in the profession of selling. But you haven't talked about any specifics on your career. What have you been doing for the last 10 years? And why haven't you really talked about it much on the podcast?

Starting point is 00:03:05 Graduated college in 2005, Greg, play a little bit of arena football. Started my career like a lot of people do in the profession of selling. We didn't plan to do that, but did it because it was an opportunity that came to me. Worked my way from being an individual contributor to a manager and then director level with some strategy and marketing. And then ultimately, my most recent role was as a VP of sales for a large international corporation. You asked why haven't I talked about it? I've talked about it briefly when it comes to what I do. but part of it was that this podcast was my avenue to reach out and speak with some of my heroes, some of my mentors, people who have helped me through their speeches, their books, seminars, what have you, and create some sort of a platform where I could learn directly from them and then

Starting point is 00:03:52 share it with other people. And it was always on the side, you know, it was separate from my day-to-day work. And I didn't necessarily love that, but part of the reason was that I had some people who were very supportive in my efforts to go seek out knowledge, to learn, to grow on my own. But I had, unfortunately, there were a few who shared advice with me that it was not a smart thing to do. It was unwise to create attention or to try to grow some sort of a platform or brand outside of my corporation, my company. And so that's why I kept it separate. I've referenced to what I do as far as a leadership role and managing and hiring and training and

Starting point is 00:04:30 developing and coaching, but haven't necessarily named the companies I've worked at because I haven't had 100% support from the people like I have from both you and Doug here. So that's really what I've done. I've done what most people do, I would say. They graduate college. They go to a big company and they try to work their way up and they have some success. And then they come to a point where maybe they have to make a decision. That's where we are now. Well, you talk about that and you talk about getting to that point where you feel like you have to make a decision or you have an opportunity to make a different decisions. Can you talk a little bit about what you were going to be doing going forward? Let me take it back and Doug can share her side too, but about six months ago,

Starting point is 00:05:09 I was, you know, shared with both of you guys that I wasn't 100% happy day today. I wasn't truly unhappy, but it wasn't 100% day today and what I was doing. I loved parts of the job, but I didn't love all the job. And so I had a lunch set up with Doug and we sat down and discussed. and he offered a lot of great insight, great wisdom, great advice, and said he would introduce me to a few people. And I remember I left that lunch. I called my wife Miranda, and I said, you know, Doug told me he's going to make some introductions for me. He's going to try to help me because he's a good guy. But I really hope that Doug introduces me to somebody that's a lot like Doug, a lot like him.

Starting point is 00:05:49 I'd love to potentially partner or work for or work with somebody like him, a guy of high morals and ethics and intelligence. intelligence, curiosity, things that I really value in a person. So fast forward, Greg, and I had lunch or breakfast with you and then more meetings with Doug. And we've met countless times since then. And we've decided to join forces. And so Bricksey and Meyer, which obviously Doug is Doug Meyer of the Bricksey and Meyer here on this episode with us today, joined forces, the learning leader brand, a learning leader show with Brick, Bricksey and Meyer an already established business that is growing, thriving, doing incredibly big things. Things I'm excited about, one of the best places to work in all of Southwest Ohio has won

Starting point is 00:06:30 awards. We're fortunate. I'm fortunate, I guess, to get to merge these two entities together. And now we literally sat down. This was a great exercise that Doug and I did. And he said, write down all the things that you love to do and all the things that people are willing to pay you to do. Write those down.

Starting point is 00:06:48 And we will find a way to create a service line, a role. for you here with us at Bricksey and Meyer and so that's how we've created this leadership advisory service line that I'm so lucky and fortunate to get a chance to lead work alongside both you guys and that's that's what we're doing man so it's as I said it's it's time to I've been firing bullets for three years as Jim Collins would say and it's time to start firing some cannonballs man it's time to go all in and that's what this is all about and why I'm so excited is that we wrote down all the things I love to do most and that's what we're doing and you know we're only about a weekend But it's been an eventful week and it's been a lot of fun and I can't wait to see what happens next.

Starting point is 00:07:33 I want to dive more into some of the specifics of what you're going to be doing, but I want to switch over and ask Doug this question. Doug, you're a CPA by training for those who don't know you. And for many years have run a firm that probably looked on the surface at least like a lot of other CPA firms. Can you talk about how Bricks and Meyers different and what it is that you looked at in this partnership with Ryan that was really attractive and compelling for you and for Bricksy and Meyer. Absolutely, Greg. I think first off, what I would like to say is when we look at how we're different is we are passionate and we're accountants. Those two terms typically don't go together in our industry, but we love to drive change and drive value and hold ourselves accountable

Starting point is 00:08:19 to provide value to our clients. To us, it's much more about the impact that we make. When I get up every morning and why we do this is to have a positive impact. And that's part of our mission statement, is to have a positive impact to the people of our firm and the clients we serve. And that really drives us and I feel has differentiated ourselves in the marketplace by our business acumen of the team members we surround ourselves with, how we differentiate ourselves from traditional accountants that are focused only on transactions and numbers. We love the game of business, and we love the ability to really see the impact we drive with our clients and our people. There's no bigger responsibility that I have than to make sure that people such

Starting point is 00:09:11 as Ryan that have put a huge amount of trust in our firm is that we really guide and have an impact to them. When we look at how we differentiate ourselves and what's most valuable to me as an individual and to our firm is to make sure every day we're going out and making an impact. We're helping companies and really adding value to their organization and increasing their enterprise value in our services. And it's funny to hear Ryan talk about the breakfast and walking away from that because I sat down with Ryan at that breakfast and was like, okay, let me understand what he's looking for. and if there's any ways I can help this guy.

Starting point is 00:09:55 Because Ryan's had an impact on me that he probably didn't realize in the form of his podcast. I was a classic get up in the morning, put my headphones on and listen to my some poison and some deaf leopard and some Italica and rock it out in the morning. And then I heard about his podcast. So one morning I was decided, well, let's switch it up a little bit and let's listen to this podcast. And that day, I went to my next meeting and had an immediate impact from one of his guests and in some of the words that were used in the knowledge. I was like, wow, that was a little bit more beneficial today than enter Sandman for the 30th time, blaring through my ears.

Starting point is 00:10:39 And so right away, I was like, this guy's impactful and this really fits. And when I sat down with him for lunch that day, within a couple minutes, I'm like, you know, this is the type of guy that fits our team. But that's not the purpose of this lunch. This purpose is how can I help him and introduce him to others, which I did? But what excites me is Ryan fits perfectly into our culture. Ryan loves the team concept, which were very competitive individuals and competitive firms. You know, in our offices, we have our pop-a-shot, our ping-pong table, and all the other games that nobody else can beat me at.

Starting point is 00:11:14 I haven't played yet. Well, you're not going to because then I might have to change my answer. But, you know, just from a competitive standpoint, just the attitude that I saw with Ryan and the ability to really look at what he's doing and see the impact that we can have to him and he can have to our team just felt like a great opportunity to continue to evolve our business and drive our mission statement. I run the business advisory practice here at Brickson and Meyer, not an accountant. We have a private equity firm that's associated with our accountant. firm. We do some things that other accounting firms aren't doing. Do you see Bricksey and Myers future, Doug, as more continuing to get broader and helping clients with a host of services? Because I think from our conversations, that's where you envision this going. Yeah, we want to always

Starting point is 00:12:13 continue to evolve to make sure we're ahead of the market and seeing what those pain points are. One of my favorite business quotes is Henry Ford. If I asked my customers what they wanted there to set a faster horse. And I look at that even in. our industry is how can we be innovative in our industry of professional services and drive value and continue to evolve that? And this is a perfect example. We have been providing business advisory services. We have been doing some of the things that Ryan does, but it provides us a whole another level of playing field and depth. And that's what we want to continue to look at is to listen to our clients. What's your pain point? Where do you need help? Where are your challenges?

Starting point is 00:12:55 and make sure we're evolving our business model to adjust to that versus just doing the same thing day after day. I think that's a important part of the culture here is that striving for more, right? We do what we do well, but we want to continue to add value to clients in new and unique ways. Ryan, you're making a big change, right? You're going from a VP of sales job with an international company. You're on a fast track there and a corporate career that, frankly, can be very comfortable. How did you get to the place where you looked at Bricksy and Meyer and this opportunity for partnering with Bricksy and Meyer and said, yeah, of all the options that I have, of everything that I could go and do, I'm going to do this. A few things.

Starting point is 00:13:39 So first, I had my dad on this episode, on this podcast episode number 200 with my dad and my younger brother, AJ. And he said something to me that he knows what I'm about to say because we've talked about it since. He said that now that he's 60 years old and he's retired, he really only does what he wants to do. He has interesting lunches. He meets interesting people. And he doesn't have to do the things that he didn't like about the corporate world before. And so I immediately responded on that podcast that bummed me out a little bit because I want to do that right now. I was on a very similar path to him, you know, a 35-year-old VP of Sales.

Starting point is 00:14:17 But I didn't love 100% of the job. loved, I don't know what percent, but it wasn't near 100. And I thought if there was a way that I could love 100 percent of what I do every day, I wanted to figure that question out. Like, what could I do? And this ended up being that answer, a great quote from Naval Ravicon. I don't know if you know him, guys, but Naval said, quote, following your genuine intellectual curiosity is a better foundation for a career than following whatever is making money right now. Obviously, I had a very comfortable salary living, more money than we needed, even for a family of seven that I'm leading. It wasn't really about that. I learned quickly that it was about

Starting point is 00:15:13 finding a way to do something that I love, that I'm passionate about. I asked this question so many times to my guest. How does somebody who has a mortgage and car payments and kids, how do they figure out a way to do something they love every day? And for me, it just so happened that what we're doing right now, this podcast created was the beginning of that platform over three years ago. Greg, you and I sitting at Chipotle talking about Brian Copleman in the moment and why I should start my own podcast. That was kind of the seeds that this grew into to figure out, okay, maybe You could podcast, you could do public speaking, you could do leadership consulting, you could say yes more often to the people who ask for your help as opposed to having to say no almost all the time because I had a full-time job and that was my responsibility. And so that's that's why I decided to leave, that comfortable cruise control type of a lifestyle to do something that I think is going to be quite hard, but but unbelievably fulfilling and fun and meaningful and do it.

Starting point is 00:16:18 at a young age as opposed to doing it when I'm a little bit older. What scares you about this change? Anytime you go from you make your side hustle, your full-time hustle, you said it, Greg, that adds immense pressure. I feel that. I mean, the people at Brixie Meyer, the people at the firm have been so kind and welcoming and nice and sweet that adds the pressure even more. They're not turning their head saying, who is this guy?

Starting point is 00:16:48 They're saying, this is awesome. I love that Doug and Dave, Bricksey, I love that you guys think this way. I love that you are willing to add another service line. You're willing to invest in a guy. And so all of that thing, I feel that, man. I told Doug this morning, I met with the board and with Doug this morning. I said, I want to be profitable from the first day that I start the job. And he's saying, relax, like you probably won't be profitable for like a couple years maybe.

Starting point is 00:17:14 I have a background in competitive sports. I'm used to having a scoreboard. I'm used to trying really hard to winning and have been fortunate to be a part of some incredible teams that have won a lot. And I want to do that as soon as possible for Bricksey-Mey-Meyer. You know, you ask a lot of people, what motivates you or how are you motivated? And a lot of people, I think of Aaron Rogers, he got this big chip on his shoulder because he thought he was going to be the first draft pick in the NFL draft.

Starting point is 00:17:39 And he slid all the way down into the 20s. And he was motivated by those people who passed up on him, who didn't believe in him. I have a different viewpoint when it comes to motivation. I am very motivated by people who believe in me. I really, really want to prove those people right. My parents have always believed to me. Some of my coaches have believed to me. My brothers have believed in me.

Starting point is 00:18:00 I so badly want them to be right. And so you, Greg, and Doug have put it out there and believe in me. And I so badly want to prove you right, but not only right, but I really want to prove you right. So that you come back and say, whoa, like this is blown up. That's what I guess drives me and why I decided to leave, I think, some of the comfort of the day-to-day, cushy salary, you know, manage up type of a job and do this where you've got to grind

Starting point is 00:18:28 and you've got to work and you've got to continuously look for clients and put in the work and then put this podcast into overdrive, right, kick it up a notch, make it even better. So I think the side hustle to the full-time hustle is a little nerve-wracking. My productive paranoia certainly kicks in, but I couldn't be more excited, though. As I was contemplating this decision, I thought of a quote from Steve Jobs that had a profound influence on me. Quote, your work is going to fill a large part of your life. And the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do.

Starting point is 00:19:13 If you haven't found it yet, keep looking. don't settle. Doug, when you envision this partnership, what does it look like? When you think 12, 18, 24 months out, what do you see this becoming? Well, first, listen to Ryan. My gosh, that passion, that drive. I mean, this has been absolutely a no-brainer for our business. I look at this, and it beyond excites me of having somebody of Ryan's energy,

Starting point is 00:19:48 passion drive that my biggest challenge is going to be managing his expectations versus reality of being profitable on day three. I envision that this is a drive to have an impact to Ryan. Number one, that's part of it that excites me. How do you not talk and listen to somebody like Ryan and want to help them be a winner? He's already a winner, but help him drive and be able to get up every morning doing exactly what he loves. And then by doing that and being passionate, the impact that he's going to have to our existing clients, to clients that we want to do work with is huge. The impact to our firm, we are a growing firm. We are going to benefit so much by Ryan bringing these leadership skills internally. We weren't out looking for this. This wasn't an

Starting point is 00:20:34 open job and a job description. This is an opportunistic hire because of what we see and how it fits our mission statement. What this looks like, that's going to evolve. And we have to remain very nimble as far as what those services are going to be most valuable to the clients going forward. So when I look at this, I look at the partnership of merging in this with our organization and how we can continue to be nimble in making sure that we are maximizing our clients' opportunities for growth and looking at the services that Ryan can provide in the leadership arena, in the sales training in the management training with his speeches. All of those types of services, I have no doubt in my mind that they're going to be impactful. Well, we just need to be nimble to the organizations

Starting point is 00:21:24 that we're working with with what's going to drive the biggest impact. So, Ryan, you will continue to do the podcast. You'll be challenged to grow this leadership practice here at Bricksey and Meyer. What do you think a day will look like for you? When you talk about waking up and loving what you do, what's day-to-day life going to be? It'll be a combination of things. Ultimately, we're trying to help leaders become more effective. Part of my motivation in doing this was I've worked with some incredible leaders, but I've also worked with some who were not. And the original mission of this podcast was to help both. People who are currently doing a great job get even better and people who were struggling

Starting point is 00:22:15 to improve, to make lives better for the people that they serve, maybe their employees or their clients. So they'll be part of the time. We'll be spent creating content, what I mean by creating content, writing and podcasting. So we'll be writing articles, books. Greg, you and I already have a time blocked, obviously, for half a day to be building out what this looks like. So some of that content will be in the form of online courses. I talked to Noah Kagan about that. I remember in a previous episode, we'll be doing some of that, building on some of the business advisory practice stuff that you've already done, then some of the training work that I'll do. Part of the time will be consulting, literally with clients.

Starting point is 00:22:57 People who are inbound inquiries will get to respond. And then what I think is most exciting, as Doug mentioned before, was getting a chance to add even more value to existing Bricksey and Meyer clients in ways that perhaps has not been done before. That will be part of my time. speaking, you know, I have a speech tonight. That's, that's something that I'll be, I'll be doing still. In fact, I'll probably be doing more of it. The majority of the times I was asked to give a speech over the last few years, I've had to say no. I've done a few of them, but now I won't have to say

Starting point is 00:23:31 no nearly as much. And then being out with clients, I mean, Doug and I, on my second day of employment, he grabs me and says, hey, we have an opportunity here, someone who, is a young C-O-O of a business, and he needs some leadership development work. I'm bringing you with me. Now, let's go and do your thing, right? And so he just unleashes me on this chairman of the board that we met with, or former chairman of the board that we met with, who would probably be the decision-maker. And without any prep and anything, and I loved it.

Starting point is 00:24:02 I mean, it was the coolest part. Again, I left it thinking, what trust, you know, like that was beautiful. Like the second day of employment, we're going on an important call, sales call technically. To a new client that we, I don't believe Berksie Meyer has any business with yet. So this could be an avenue to like to go in initially win some work and then who knows how big that could be. Um, that Doug trust me enough to do that without really even asking me what I was going to say. I had a blast. And so I've never been in a position, Greg, though.

Starting point is 00:24:32 That's interesting to sell myself. I've always sold some sort of a product. It's a big difference. And I'll probably have to get used to that. as you've had to do over the last few years and before that too. I'm really curious to understand the day-to-day as we get into it more, but so far, every aspect of it has been fun. It's been, it's pushed me a little bit.

Starting point is 00:24:56 It hasn't all been very, like, super comfortable. So that's why I think is the most enjoyable about it. Doug, you know, one of the things that I have enjoyed the most over the last 18 months is the work that we were doing even before Ryan joined. And that is running what we call, leadership circle. Some people call mastermind groups, but we were very specific in setting up groups of business owners and executives. And so I have loved working in these leadership circles, introducing other executives to each other and facilitating these peer-to-peer learning groups. Doug,

Starting point is 00:25:33 what have you seen? You lead a couple of those groups. I have a couple of those groups. What is it that you look at and say, man, this is really working, this idea of focusing owners and executives on this concept of leadership and learning is really bringing them value. What I've seen is that, again, there's this lack of exposure that a lot of these individuals have and a lack of a group where you can have an open dialogue and be in a similar position in your career and openly talk about what those struggles may be. They might be with the owner. They might be with some of your team members and learn from each other. An example I'll give is, you know, I was just hitting on management versus leadership.

Starting point is 00:26:16 You know, we had a discussion in one of our groups of the differences between the two and why they're both important and why somebody might be a fantastic manager but not a great leader and the other way around. And so what we found through these circles is the impact that you're finding with those leaders of being able to leverage material that they haven't been exposed to before on leadership traits and leadership skills. but then leveraging experiences. We all have experiences to tell, and some of the most valuable experiences that we can share is where we made mistakes. And a lot of times in our circles, that's what we're talking about is,

Starting point is 00:26:51 hey, we did this and we screwed up, and this is what we learned, and you can help somebody else to avoid that situation. That strong network of that peer-to-peer and having that very open dialogue to learn from one another and then to be presented some workshop-oriented type of leadership skills. Well, you talk about the peer-to-peer learning, and we definitely emphasize that.

Starting point is 00:27:17 And I was telling a story to someone who's thinking about joining the next circle I'm facilitating. And I said in my most recent meeting, I had an agenda, and I was walking through that an agenda, and I had three or four people, and the conversation went, you know, from health care to, hey, how do we hire better? how do we, you know, how do I train up new executives? And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking to myself, I've lost control. And then the realization just came over me like a wave. No, I haven't lost control. This is exactly what we want, right? We want this conversation. We got 10 people in the room who all have very different experiences, backgrounds, knowledge. And what do they do? They start to share that and learn

Starting point is 00:28:00 from one another. And it's powerful. And I'm really excited to work with Ryan on that front, because, you know, Doug, I think both of us are humble to say, we know we can be better at facilitating our groups. And we know he's going to bring a whole lot from 240 plus conversations and 50 books that he's read in the last three years on leadership. And so I'm really excited to see where we can collectively take that. I have some rapid fire questions I'd like to throw at you if you're open to it. Let's do it. Brian, though, let's ask you. So dream guest for your podcast.

Starting point is 00:28:41 Elon Musk, I find people that think that way fascinating, and I would hop on a plane tomorrow if Elon would give me 15 minutes. A favorite thing to do with your daughters? I coached one of their basketball teams. I enjoyed that aspect of it, being involved enough. And actually, I think I, and maybe Doug can speak this to her. You too, Greg. I just was happy that she, like, wanted me to do it.

Starting point is 00:29:09 It made me feel in a way. It was self-serving that I felt good about myself, that she actually wanted me to be your coach. But just seeing how they interact with their friends, too, that they're behaved and seemed to have good manners when they have better manners when they're not with us than when they are with us. Miranda and I, I would say, again, another long answer, but coaching their basketball team. I like it. Learn more from success or failure? I remember failure a lot more. I remember the interception I threw to Cincinnati Elder to lose a game in the playoffs.

Starting point is 00:29:41 more so than I remember all the touchdowns and the yards. Learning wise, it's probably the same, although I'm really particular about learning from success because I want you to be able to duplicate it. That's why I ask so many people, what are the common themes of sustained excellence or how do you sustain excellence because I want to continue to do it. Whenever you talk to a sales leader and say, you had a great year, how did you do it? I expect that person to be able to explain it really well. And if they can't, I'm nervous that they're going to be able to duplicate that.

Starting point is 00:30:16 So I guess I have to hedge and say both. Most impactful book you've read in the last 12 months. I love the Wright brothers, man. I can't help it. It keeps popping in the front of my mind by David McCullough. I mean, I am very proud of being born and raised in Dayton, Ohio. Same place those guys are from in that book, regardless of where you grew up or where you're from. It is an incredible story of two guys who set their sights on probably something even more crazy than living on Mars.

Starting point is 00:30:47 It really was at the time. They had no money, no funds, no backing, while others who were trying to do the same thing had all the money, all the backing, the government help, all of these things, and these are people from all over the world. And they did it. They did it. They fought through crashes, through tough moments, through mistakes. And they were the guys. and the way the McCullough writes it, I would just, I cannot recommend that book enough.

Starting point is 00:31:12 The Wright Brothers is so good. I agree. Great book. Okay, last question. Favorite episode of the Learning Leader Show? I would urge people to listen to Kat Cole. I know I've said this before. Longtime listeners are probably tired of hearing me say it, but Kat Cole started as a Hooters

Starting point is 00:31:28 waitress because she grew up in a single parent household with no money to provide for her family. She earned an MBA without getting her undergraduate degree. about that. I don't know if that's ever happened before. And now she is the C-O-O-O-Focus Brands leading many people responsible for a massive amount of revenue. I can't wait. I get to record with her again here coming up. She just had a baby. But Cat Cole, I believe it's 78, but it was so good. I probably share a little bit more about it here in a minute. But I would just say Cat Cole, if you haven't listened to that one yet, I highly urge you to do it. I have listened to it. It was fantastic. Doug, I'm going to start with the same rapid fire question that I ended with Ryan.

Starting point is 00:32:12 What's your favorite episode of The Learning Leader Show? Since everything is a competition, do I win if I answer more rapidly than Ryan? Does that count? I got to work on being concise. There are no winners and losers in the Rapid Fire round. I would say, I believe it was episode 200 where he had his brother and his father on. I just thought that was cool for many aspects. There was some great takeaways and some learning.

Starting point is 00:32:37 experiences, storytelling, but I also admire their family relationship and the mutual respect and admiration that you can tell the three of them have for each other. I took a lot out of that beyond just the business tips, but just, you know, that's utopia right there, man, is to have a family like that that you can share that bond with. Doug, who's the smartest person in your immediate family? that's definitely our daughter Doug are you more of a visionary or more of an integrator

Starting point is 00:33:13 so someone who sees the future or are you more of the person who wants the future has been drawn is great at helping the team get there I would say that that's a very tough question for me to answer I'm definitely perceived as more as the integrator I'm an anal I think you know the block

Starting point is 00:33:34 and tackling is very important to me, but at the same time, I really like to make sure we're staying focused on the future and the vision and how can I be better? How can I be better tomorrow than I am today? How can I outwork yesterday? I fail miserably at contentment. I had somebody tell me after we had a fantastic year to like, dude, stop and smell the roses. And I'm like, it makes me uncomfortable, you know, from that standpoint. But I would say people that see, me probably think of me more as an integrator. Doug, what's the best piece of business advice you've ever gotten? A great friend and mentor Bill Matthews in a way only Bill could do. After I had started this business and we were three to four years in, I went and had breakfast with him and I was a victim,

Starting point is 00:34:23 you know? I was gone and I was complaining. I was frustrated with some of our team members and I was frustrated at the pace. And Bill looked at me and said, Doug, I don't think the problems them. I think the problem's you. And that was so impactful because it made me stop and really evaluate. And he looked at me and he said, if everybody thought like you did, everybody would go out and start their own business. And you have to realize that you need to clearly define your vision and communicate your vision versus just expecting people to think like you're thinking. And that was so impactful because some of the things that was on my mind, I felt was common sense or everybody was thinking. Not that that was right or wrong, but that I just felt everybody was thinking the same

Starting point is 00:35:09 way I did. And it really made me take a step back. And that advice was invaluable to make sure that I clearly define what I see as the vision, the goals, the vulnerability, the pain points, etc. guys thanks for answering the rapid fire questions i do have a few others that i want to i want to get in here before before we end this episode doug i want to start with you and just ask what does success look like if you look out into the future and you say not not 18 months into the future but 10 years into the future and say hey this is where we're headed as brixie amire and the learning leader show and and the leadership development service line that that that will be developed what does that look like. What is success? I think the first gauge of success is fun. I want this to be fun. I want to go out

Starting point is 00:36:03 and kick butt. I want to add value. And I want to make sure that we are making that helping businesses increase their business enterprise, helping individuals maximize their potential and grow this service line and these offerings. And as part of that, it's really going to be defining where are those services that we are able to provide the biggest return. But I really think that the definition of success is going to come back to energy, passion, and fun. And if I look 10 years down the road, I'm not going to sit here and put a number and say, thou shalt be an X million dollar practice, as much as can we look and say we are doing something good and we can see tangible results from our clients and our people. And then here's this breadth of,

Starting point is 00:36:55 services we have through materials, through speeches, through other types of things that are really driving leadership, development, management development is where I see this as being successful. If it's not fun and passionate, I mean, one of this, not to get off tangent here a little bit, but when Ryan was making a determination, this was a risk for Ryan to take. It was easy to stay where he was. It was easy for him to go somewhere else where he could step in the shoes of a large organization. He was taking a risk coming to our organization. And I told Dave Bricksey, before Ryan made a decision, I said, if we put out 100 offers, 99 would turn them down. Ryan Hawk will take this offer. And Ryan, I was in Philadelphia, getting ready to go watch my daughter play

Starting point is 00:37:44 volleyball. And Ryan wanted to do a call. And when he called me, he started the call like this. Doug, thank you so much for all this time you put into this. I'm like, you got to be flipping kidding me. You know, don't you comment. You thought he was turning you down. I thought he was like, you know, I just want to be. You're a really nice guy. I thought I was going to get another one of those.

Starting point is 00:38:06 I just want to be friends, you know. That's right. That's right. I was trying to lead with gratitude, man. I meant it. I was so appreciative. That was a fun phone call because I know that I didn't think of it that way. I was just trying to say thank you.

Starting point is 00:38:17 I was really excited. But when you say 99 people wouldn't do. this to Dave, Bricksey, right, your partner, but Ryan's going to do it. Why do you say that? What makes you think that? I say that is because you've got a family of seven. You have a very high position at the organization you're at before. You were making very good money. And so you were put in a position where, you know, you're going to take some financial risk getting started. I have no doubt in my mind. You're going to blow everything out of the water. And that will not even be an issue, but there is some risk coming over day one. There also is a smaller organization that you're

Starting point is 00:38:56 coming to. And people at this point in their career and with the natural overhead we have as families at that point are sometimes not willing to take that risk. I've been told a million times, man, I wish I had done this when I was 29 years old, you know, but I'm too old now. I got too many, you know, I got kids. I got expenses. There's not many people that would do this. There's not many people that would take that risk. It's easy to stay where you are. It's easy to do this in your spare time and have fun. But to really put your heart and everything into this, you know, there's not a lot of people that would do that. But I was confident other than when you started the phone call, I was confident that you were going to do this because I know how important it is for you to live and drive your

Starting point is 00:39:48 passion on a daily basis and the impact that you're going to have. I think it's important that we all find our personal hedgehog. So let's dive into what it means to find your personal hedgehog. That is there's three parts to it. Circle one is you're passionate and you love to do it. Circle two is you're encoded for it. You're really good at it or you've developed a skill. Then circle three is you can make a living and fund your aspirations. Now, that is your hedgehog and something we should all strive for. Ryan, what I want to ask you is what you're going to bring that's unique. So a lot of people are out there talking about leadership,

Starting point is 00:40:35 a lot of books written on the subject. You can Google it and see 500 hits just posted within the last week. And so it's not a topic that I think is dying for lack of coverage, right? We don't lead, but I don't think it's because people aren't talking about it. What are you going to bring that people can't get from a book, that they can't get from a class, that they can't get from reading one of those articles that they Google? What do you look at and say, man, this is really the difference? Well, first, I would encourage people to always be seeking knowledge from books, from articles,

Starting point is 00:41:12 from podcast, from sources. So I would not say that this is whatever I'm doing is any type of a replacement for that. This is purely additive to that. The greatest leaders in the world understand that. That they're constantly seeking knowledge. You never know. That's why I'm so grateful for technology of apps on my phone that I can take a note 24-7 if something pops into my mind. But what I hope to do is bring a unique voice to somebody who has a few different things in my background.

Starting point is 00:41:45 One, the competitive nature from playing organized sports growing up my entire life, from competing with professional athletes, both in my family, as well as in college, some of the greatest athletes in the world, take some of what I've learned from that. Then take some of what I've learned from working at big international corporations, rising the ranks quickly, earning promotions based on my performance and my achievement. achievements and certainly have been helped by a lot of people along the way. So I even hesitate to say my, but regardless, that's what it is. And then the third part of that aspect is the fact that I have taken upon myself after being pushed by people like you, Greg and my brother, AJ, to seek out

Starting point is 00:42:33 knowledge from some of the brightest, most thoughtful leadership minds in the world, collect all that. Really, I'm a collector. That's what I think I would say. I'm a collect all of that. distill that, understand what is most useful, as Peter Drucker or Jim Collins would say, what's most useful and then share that with our clients, the existing clients at Bricksey-Myer or new clients that we could go to. The combination of that background, I think, is unique. You mix that with, I think this is what I love the most, more than anything outside of my direct family.

Starting point is 00:43:13 I love the most is studying this. It's like, have you watched Kirk Herb Street with college football, regardless of how you feel about Kirk Herb Street, Doug or Greg? Everyone loves Kirk. Kirk, though, I think it's evident that he loves college football. Can you not tell he loves it. He watches it and studies it every single day. I know Kirk, because he's from my high school,

Starting point is 00:43:32 and we've talked a little bit about this, but he loves college football more than anything outside of his family. So when he speaks it, he doesn't really even have to think. It just kind of comes out of him. So the things I'm doing, if you take the background from a repression of selling, from an athletic background, and then from learning directly from the source of these leaders, collecting all of that information, we distill it, right? And we're working on some of this now, Greg, and then we share it with our clients, both current and future. I think that's unique. I think that's different.

Starting point is 00:44:06 And I would not say it's a substitute for books, for seminars, for podcasts. It's certainly not. It is definitely additive. and it could help make you a more effective leader by, I think, working with us. One of the things that I love about podcasts, and you know, you and I have talked about our passion for podcast now for probably five years and so excited to have your podcast to listen to and to learn from. But one of the things I love about it is you do get to know the host, right? When you listen to Brian Copleman, you get to know about Brian Copleman and his views and how he thinks about the world. when I listen to your podcast, I get some of your leadership philosophy. But I'm curious if you would take just a few minutes and specifically articulate a few things that you think you've learned from doing the show and maybe how you see leadership in a way that not everybody sees it that way. Right. So what is it and what is that framework that is the Ryan Hawk leadership framework? What are some things that you think about leadership that we get from you?

Starting point is 00:45:13 So a few things. I think if you're running an organization, there's a few aspects of that. And again, you and I have talked a little bit about this. But I think you're going to lead, you're going to manage, and you're going to coach. And those are three different things. I think when you work with us, we'll take deep dives down each of those leading, managing, and coaching avenues. Those parts of running any type of an organization, whether it's, it doesn't really matter the industry. But I think those are aspects of running something. If you want to talk about leadership philosophy, I mean, I have to take this from one of my guests that I've already mentioned previously and why I love talking to her so much. And that's cat, cat Cole. So think of an equal balance. I'm using my hands here, but an equal balance on the left side, you've got courage and confidence. And I'm talking about what makes up, I think, the most effective leaders. Okay, Greg. So courage and confidence. They take risk. They believe in their point of view. and others see that and they kind of follow. But then the other side right here, the right side is this bucket that has to be equally weighted, and that's curiosity and humility. So on the left side, think of this. I'm trying to show a visual for audio listeners here. Courage and confidence.

Starting point is 00:46:32 The right side is curiosity and humility. So they have this level that they're willing and able to convey to others that they don't know everything. so they need people around them. Those people help them be a part of something bigger. We've probably all experienced people who have those qualities unweighted a little bit. So if you look at somebody who is just full of bravado and courage and confidence, they're like, as Kat would say, the bull and the china shop, right? They're kind of crazy and they're all over the place.

Starting point is 00:47:06 They don't have enough curiosity and humility. You look at the other side, if you're only humble, you're only, curious, you're really just a student. And I think I sometimes, if I fall too far, it's probably into that side of thing. So I have to balance this out. But you're really just a student. So it's hard to really convey confidence or create followers or people to follow at least what you're saying if you're just sitting back and you're a student and you're questioning. So I think, I believe like Kat has told me and others have said that to be an optimal, great, effective leader long term to sustain excellence, you have to have equal balance of

Starting point is 00:47:45 of courage and confidence combined with this intellectual curiosity, this dedicated learning mentality, and you have to be humble. I think when those are equally weighted, we have a much greater chance of success. Rich Roll, a top ultra-endurance athlete said, the path to fulfillment in life to emotional satisfaction is to find what really excites you and channel you're all into it. Doug, final question for you. If you look at this and say, hey, I want this to be about energy, passion, and fun, what do you look and say, this is fun? What are you enjoying about this process? What is compelling you to work with Ryan and say, not just that, hey, we can compliment and build this together, and that could be success for the firm.

Starting point is 00:48:44 But where's the fun in this for you? Well, let me answer first a comment you made in a question in the middle of that. What compels me to work with, Ryan? I love his natural curiosity and thought-provoking questions. And just the attitude, you know, higher for attitude. That's big with our firm. And that is just exactly what we're looking for from fitting into our mission. And then the fun part is seeing a difference that can be.

Starting point is 00:49:08 made through all the things that Ryan's already doing and the items that he's discussing here during this podcast. That's fun. Fun is where you can have that tangible impact to an individual in an organization and just being able to see that and bring this unique skill set in this diversity of service offerings. It's fun. And when somebody comes to you and says, which I had this probably the biggest compliment I've ever received from a client said, I don't know what I would do without you in our life. And that was awesome, you know, because if you're motivated by the financial return, you know, when you asked about the vision for Ryan in these services, of course, we have financial metrics and goals. And Ryan and I separately map those out and then compared

Starting point is 00:49:56 notes. But the bigger component is just enjoying what you're doing because that's going to drive passion and passion is going to drive results. If you get up every day and you believe in what you're doing, if you're passionate about what you're doing and you're enjoying what you're doing, it's going to be a hell of a lot of fun. And that's really what's important to me is to be able to solve complex business problems from business owners and help them drive enterprise value. I got advice. We keep referring to Jim Collins, but I can't help him. He provide a lot of wisdom for me. And the advice that I think is good and could help people who are listening as well. And that's obviously my goal with this.

Starting point is 00:50:38 As he said, the most important question is who. First who, then what? Who will be your mentor? Who will be your friends? Who will you help? Who will you spend your time with? You don't need to answer what until well after you've answered who. And so, Greg, I'll take you back.

Starting point is 00:50:58 So I'm sitting in the offices of Bricksey & Meyer. And I'm really thinking about this. And I'm not 100% certain yet what to do. And Doug and I are just talking and going through it. And we got to talking about our wives and how lucky we both are. And I know you might be wondering, like, what does this have to do with the work? And I'll tell you why. So we're both kind of sharing how fortunate we are, how they lift us up and how good they are.

Starting point is 00:51:24 And Doug got really serious. He looked me dead in the eye. I'll never forget this. And he said, I would give everything up. I would do anything. I don't need anything. I'd give my business. I'd give my money.

Starting point is 00:51:37 I'd give my cars. I'd give everything up. I would live under a bridge to be with Kirsten. And it just like, I remember, like, Doug probably remembers my eyes started, like, welling up. I was emotional. I thought, this guy is a guy that I want to be a part of my who. I want to be in a movie with this guy, as Jesse has told me when he talked about his wife. I want to go to business with somebody like this because he showed him.

Starting point is 00:52:02 he can love and care and have that much devotion to somebody meant a lot to me. It meant he's a person of integrity, a guy who I can trust in leadership and partnering in a marriage like this, the learning leader with Bricksey and Meyer is a marriage. And to a guy who's that committed to his wife that, I mean, I've never seen him be that serious. And it meant so much to me when he did that, that I remember I even, even after, I went home and my own wife, Miranda, noticed that I was like kind of out of it because I just, I was almost emotionally drained from just saying like, I love this dude, man.

Starting point is 00:52:42 Like, I want to do this thing. And I was pumped. And it had nothing to do with him talking about me or the business or what we're going to do. I could just see how devoted he was to his partner. And I knew that's a person of integrity, a person that I could trust. And if you combine that with the intelligence and the business already being built and all the great things, I thought, this is it, man. I am in.

Starting point is 00:53:03 And that was the moment that I think sealed it for me. If you talk about moments, right, inflection points, that was it, man. That was a big one. And he, I don't think Doug even knows that or realize I haven't said it because I was kind of waiting for this forum to do it to let him know that that was a big, big deal to me. And you don't find that every day. And for me, it meant a lot. And that's why we are where we are here today.

Starting point is 00:53:29 Well, it's exciting for me to work with both of you guys. I look and I see two guys that I have nothing but the highest respect. I think that you have built incredible businesses. You've got a ton of passion for the work ahead. I can't imagine the awesome things that you guys are going to get to tackle, that we're going to get to tackle together. And I am pumped to be a part of helping to make this thing a reality. So any final thoughts or words from either of you?

Starting point is 00:54:00 You know, I appreciate that feedback. Ryan just gave when I was telling us. the store. I didn't realize that was the sales pitch that closed the deal, so I have to remember that. But if you Google a man outkicking his coverage, you'll see a picture of me and my wife. So just to put some contents behind that. But I know it's, I loved your question to start. What are you most scared of? And I can tell you what I'm most scared of, and that's just containing Ryan's expectations. but this is something that I am so happy on so many levels. Ryan mentioned I pulled him in.

Starting point is 00:54:37 I like to do things unannounced. I like to make, as I always say, it's time to dance. Let's go. Because I think we're at our best sometimes when we're putting a situation and it's go time and the spotlight's on you. So I pulled Ryan in and said, hey, the board's in there. Why don't you come in here real quick? When the board asked me, why did I hire Ryan? It just naturally, all the reasons and a lot, which we've talked about, came spewing out the eyes.

Starting point is 00:55:02 You could just see them and they were like, is that it? Is that why? There's nothing more. In a very sarcastic tone, obviously, they were impressed. But this is something that I'm so excited for Ryan. I'm so excited for the opportunity for our clients and those that we're looking to do business with, just being able to drive a change and have an impact. and it's just going to be a lot of fun,

Starting point is 00:55:27 and I'm thrilled, thrilled that we are able to do this. And probably for me, the most rewarding part of this is thrilled that Ryan's unleashed and able to do what he loves on a daily basis. That for me is one of the biggest rewards and things I take pride in is that now somebody can get up every morning and do what they love and have an impact and have a passion because that's going to make him an even better husband, dad,

Starting point is 00:55:55 friend, son, brother, all of those things. And that's what life's all about. And the financial aspect just falls in place when you're following your passion. Yeah, Greg, you've played the role of facilitator and the interviewer here and have not gotten nearly enough credit, both for me personally and any type of success that I've had, of pushing me, of helping me of always being there for our lunches at Chipotle. I look forward to them so much. And part of the attraction was getting the opportunity to work with you and do some of this stuff where you build some of this content with you. And I foresee us, regardless of what any of us do long term, I know that you and I will always be talking, will always be working on something together, will always be creating something

Starting point is 00:56:41 that I believe will differentiate. Bricksey and Meyer will help people, first and foremost. And your mentorship, your guidance, your willingness to be honest is huge and should be acknowledged. I know your friends and your colleagues already know that, but for those who don't, I couldn't leave this conversation without mentioning that, even though so it's just going to sound like people listening, you're going to say these guys are just trying to love each other for an hour. But it's just true, man. I mean, that's why we're doing it. So I couldn't get off here without mentioning that, man. Well, now that the love is flowing towards me, it's probably

Starting point is 00:57:18 an appropriate time to stop, Brian. Doug, I'm really excited about this. And I'll I'll just say I foresee a fantastic partnership, one that produces a lot of incredible value, a lot of fun, a lot of energy, and I'm really excited to be working with you guys both on making this happen. Awesome. Thanks, guys. Thank you. One of my favorite artists, the late, great Tom Petty said it best.

Starting point is 00:57:54 It's time to move on. It's time to get going. What lies ahead, I have no way of knowing. but under my feet, baby, grass is growing. It's time to move on. Time to get going. Thank you so much to all of you, the loyal, long-term listeners of the Learning Leaders Show for being here over the last three years.

Starting point is 00:58:17 A lot of you have asked me when this time, this moment would come, and here we are. I've been so excited for it to be here to go all in on this podcast, speaking, consulting, helping others. creating leadership circles. Everything Doug and Greg and I spoke about on this talk tonight, I'd love to hear from you, reach out to me, email me, Ryan at learning leader.com, and we can further this dialogue. Thank you so much.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 232: It's Time To Go ALL IN (With Doug Meyer & Greg Meredith)

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.