The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 253: Aubrey Marcus - Total Human Optimization (Own The Day, Own Your Life)

Starting point is 00:00:00 The last thing I want anybody listening to this to do is to say, well, Aubrey started with five people and that was 2012. And in five years, you got to 180 and look what on it is now. And if I don't do that, I'm a failure. You know, that's the last thing I want people listening to this to do. You can be an absolute perfect success in what you're doing, keeping it as a five-person company, you know, keeping it small, you know, keeping it or growing it to 10 people or growing into 20 people or failing and trying something new. you know, but just do the best you can and really divorce yourself from this result and comparison-oriented thinking. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. It is Mindful Monday. Text learners to 4-4-2-2 in order to join thousands of other fellow learning leaders from all over the world.

Starting point is 00:00:56 Text learners to 44-222. Now, on a night's feature, leader with one of the most interesting people in the world. It is Aubrey Marcus, the founder and CEO of Onit, a lifestyle brand based on a holistic health philosophy he calls total human optimization. Since its founding, Aana has become an Inc. 500 company and industry leader with over 250 products. Aubrey also is the author of a new book titled Own the Day, Own Your Life. If you're the we got into how he built on it from the ground up to a thriving 180 person company it is today amazing then the key to partnering with Joe Rogan and his answer is not what you think and then Aubrey describes why he questions everything and how that led him to

Starting point is 00:01:53 have an open relationship with his fiance yes this went pretty deep it was fascinating and opened my eyes. I learned a lot. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Aubrey, Marcus. Quick note before we get started, Aubrey uses colorful language from time to time throughout this conversation. I know that's not for everyone.

Starting point is 00:02:18 And if that's not for you, then this is an episode you should probably skip. When I have a guest on my show, I do not tell them what they can and cannot say. Rather, I think they should speak freely. and that's what Aubrey did. And it was an interesting and engaging conversation, but some bad language throughout.

Starting point is 00:02:40 So if that's not for you, no worries. Just skip this one and check it out next week. All right, here we go. All right, Aubrey, I, hey, man, I've been looking forward to this one for ever since Brent connected us in regards to own the day, own your life. It's been years since we last chat. But it's cool to catch up. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show, man.

Starting point is 00:02:58 Yeah, happy to be on here, man. Happy to chat with you again. I'm curious. So you've, you've had a number of successes in your life. You've partnered with people. You've spent time around really incredible leaders. And I'm curious from your perspective, when you think of those who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time, what are some of the common themes those people all share? You know, there's one characteristic that I talk about a bit in my book, and it's called mental override. And it's an ability to get yourself. to do the thing that you don't want to do. And I first mentioned it in the book in terms of turning that shower nozzle cold. And, you know, so you have your nice warm shower, you take care of all of your washing and all your preparation that you're going to do there.

Starting point is 00:03:45 And then knowing that cold exposure is going to increase noraphen, it's going to drop your cortisol, it's going to drop inflammation, it's going to lessen your chances of respiratory tract infection, it's going to help your longevity, it's going to build cold shock protein. You can know all the good things that it's going to do for you. but still so many people when faced with that opportunity to just take their hand and turn it counterclockwise and get in that cold water they won't do it and i think the people who sustain excellence the most they're the people who are able to continually do that thing they don't want to do and for whatever

Starting point is 00:04:20 reason that is they're able to push themselves past that initial resistance point and do that over and over and over again. And how you get there is by training it in the little things, using something like cold water, using something like a trivial fear, you know, being afraid to sing or being afraid to dance or being afraid of the cold or something that you know is good for you. And then making yourself do that thing, that'll help translate to the thing that you don't want to do in business or the thing you don't want to do in relationship or whatever your priority is. So I think that that starts with maybe habit formation or routines.

Starting point is 00:04:56 How do you implement that into your life? And how did you get started? Because you mentioned I really liked it. The little things, the little details is where it starts turning the knob to being cold. So how do you implement that? Because I'm thinking I'm all about I love the ideas and then the implementation and execution for the everyday regular person who's listening who said, I would never take a cold shower. What are he talking about? And you just quickly listed the benefits.

Starting point is 00:05:18 But that goes to everything in your life. Yeah, I mean, that's, you've got to identify the process that you know is going to be most beneficial. And that's, you know, a good part. And it's not my intention to talk about the book the whole time here. But, you know, that's fresh on my mind because that is the process that we describe in this book. It gives you the structure of what an ideal day looks like and what the practices that you can employ that are going to have the most benefit, the research behind that. And then from there, it's just up to you to decide whether you do it or not, you know, whether you can adhere to it. And really the key is to not focus on the whole thing as a whole, because that can be overwhelming, but focus on each little step along the way, each part of the process and just take it one bite at a time.

Starting point is 00:06:06 It's like that old saying, how do you eat an entire cow? Well, one bite at a time. You know, I mean, it's it's the same same thing. how do you handle your life? Well, one day at a time. How do you handle a day? Well, one practice throughout that day at the time. I talked with Benjamin Hardy and James Clear a lot about environment design.

Starting point is 00:06:28 How does that play into your methods with own a day, own your life, and optimizing your practices for all the different aspects of your life is the creation of the environment? Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes you're going to be able to create. an environment that's really going to be beneficial. And sometimes, you know, you're not going to be able to create an environment. Sometimes you're going to be thrust into an environment that you're going to have to adapt to. And I think so you need to be able to balance both. You know, I talk about owning your space. And when you're capable of cultivating the ideal environment, go for it. But then

Starting point is 00:07:06 also be able to adapt to those environments that you have no control over, those situations internally and externally that come as a surprise and how to manage those situations equally is equally as important. So, Aubrey, there is so much to get to in your story as well as like the personal when it comes to us. I guess I'll go, I'll start there. Do you remember what year that was? It was right around the beginning of On It being created, I believe. So my brother, AJ, texted me one day and said, hey, I really want to work with slash partners slash figure something out to do something with this guy, Aubrey Marcus, who created on it because he loved your company and what you stood for and your supplements.

Starting point is 00:07:50 And so that's, he asked if I would kind of broker that conversation, a potential partnership or a deal or an endorsement type thing. And so that's how you and I first talked. What, do you remember what year that was or what was going on? It had to be, it's a completely different time to where you guys are on it right now. Yeah, it had to be 2012. Wow, that's incredible. So six years ago.

Starting point is 00:08:11 And so what's the difference we've seen on it in 2012? How many employees? What was the revenue versus where you're at now in 2018? Well, I think there was about five employees when we first got that order come in from AJ. Wow. And one of our guys, we were still processing all the orders ourselves in a little tiny office. So we saw AJ Hawk come in on a packing slip. And then we're like, is that the AJ Hawk?

Starting point is 00:08:36 Like the football player that we know. And then we looked up the address where it was going to and it was going to Ohio and we're like, AJ Hawk going to Ohio, probably him. And then I just cold reached out to the email that was included and it was your brother. And, you know, he was one of the first kind of big name, big sport people that we got a chance to work with. And, you know, that was great. I got to meet you. I got to meet your dad.

Starting point is 00:08:58 I got to meet AJ. Got to meet the whole family and, you know, go to some Packers games. And, you know, it was just a really kind of special moment. for a really young company at that point. And now, you know, of course, fast forward now, we got 180 employees. We have, you know, champions from all major sports in and out of our gym all day, all the time. And it's, you know, it's a much, much different world. But, um, not better or worse than those early times. You know, it's just on a different scale and and, uh, and different challenges and different things to enjoy and learn from. But, um, yeah,

Starting point is 00:09:33 it was, it was really cool back in the, back in the early days. What's the difference in your day-to-day? So you go from being the guy doing it all to now you're, you are leading and managing a lot of people, not just the business, but a lot of people where before you're just trying to get, you know, figure out alpha brain or what's the best new tropic or the ingredients or creating products, right, and just getting them shipped. And now you're running a 180-person company. What's the the scope of your day-to-day like as compared to then? Well, you know, it's interesting. I mean, back then, you know, I was so intimately involved in every part of the process. And now with this many people, I still make the important decisions, but I have a lot of great people on my team that can handle a lot of the load, especially when I'm out writing a book and talking about this book like I am now, you know, they're able to really man the helm while I'm gone. And that's awesome because that allows, me to do something that will ultimately be beneficial to on it, you know, and myself, you know, through the proliferation of these ideas of total human optimization that are, you know, throughout

Starting point is 00:10:42 this book. And, but in order to do that, I had to have the space, you know, and the leadership within the company to take the time to actually write the thing. So, you know, it's been a, it's been a cool process of, you know, letting go of a lot of things and applying, you know, where I can be of service and how I can be helpful. And then, uh, and then, uh, and then, uh, knowing that I have the freedom to withdraw and tackle some other big projects. If somebody right now is running a business with five employees and they're listening and thinking, oh my goodness, like what can I do to be in Aubrey's shoes someday and have an 180-person business be recognized on the Inc 500, you know, like growing.

Starting point is 00:11:24 Everything seems to have gone extremely well. And I know there are bumps in the road. There always are. But what's the piece of advice you'd give to that person leading a five-person business? or maybe leading a two-person business that has desires to grow to 180 and beyond? Well, I mean, I think it's, again, don't focus on the 180. If you focus on the 180, you're going to get fucking dizzy. You know, what you really need to focus on is focus on what's, if you got five, focus on who's six.

Starting point is 00:11:55 If you got six, focus on who's seven. If you got seven, focus on who's eight. You know, like continue to just gradually grow the process and not try to jump ahead to the end. know, continue being of service to your customers, continue to build an audience, you know, like really just surrender completely to the process and the timing of that process and not judge yourself comparatively. Like the last thing I want anybody listening to this to do is to say, well, Aubrey started with five people and that was 2012 and in five years he got to 180 and look what on it is now. And if I don't do that, I'm a fucking failure. You know, that's the last

Starting point is 00:12:30 thing I want people listening to this to do. You can be an absolute perfect success. what you're doing, keeping it as a five-person company, you know, keeping it small, you know, keeping it or growing into 10 people or growing into 20 people or failing and trying something new, you know, but just do the best you can and really divorce yourself from this result and comparison-oriented thinking. I've found you since we've met, what, six years ago and the meeting since then. And obviously from listening to your podcast and watching on videos, you are a guy. who questions, well, pretty much everything.

Starting point is 00:13:10 And I really like that quality in a person. I think it's a quality of that great leaders are willing to question basically everything. Where does that, first of all, let me know if that's accurate. I feel like it is based on knowing you a little bit and watching you. But where does that come from, this questioning type behavior? Because it feels like you're always searching for what's a potentially better answer. Yeah, well, it comes from realizing constantly over and over again that the answer that I thought was correct was not correct. You know, that I'm constantly reminded of how dumb I am, you know, and just how much there is left to learn.

Starting point is 00:13:52 You know, it's like as the shores of your ignorance get illuminated, you just discover more coastline that you haven't seen before. You know, and so I'm always just open to continue to learning. I mean, I don't think I'll ever stop learning. You know, that's just the nature of it. There'll always be new information. There'll always be new techniques, a better way to go. And even some paths that don't work, while you at least learn they don't work. You know, so just constantly having that curiosity mindset rather than that assurance and something to prove mindset.

Starting point is 00:14:24 I mean, that's a huge difference. Was there a specific moment or moments that you can think about in the growth of your business as you're leading it that. that were real big inflection points or a specific moment or two that say we want from here to here or we grew from here to here that was a big deal for us at on it to say okay i i feel like we got this thing rolling in the right direction you know other than that first other than that first moment when it was looking like everything was going to fail and alpha brain hit and it turned into a success what do you mean what do you mean the first moment when everything seemed like it was going to fail Well, you know, I had some hangover supplements that I was working on and I was trying to figure some things out and I raised $110,000, you know, $60 from Bodie Miller, 50 from a investment banker that I knew in Philly. And so I had two investors. I had $110,000. I was down to my last, you know, like literally like my last $10,000. I put as much as I could towards an alpha brain purchase, got some net 30 terms and just said, look, if alpha brain sells and it sells fast enough, then.

Starting point is 00:15:33 we have a business. If it doesn't, well, then I failed one more time and, you know, I'll keep trying or raise more money or something. But, you know, it was at the point where I was all, I was completely all in. And, and then, you know, obviously we sold out within the first couple hours of launching Alpha Brain and we kept selling out and kept selling out. And, you know, that moment was that biggest, that biggest point. But there was also other ones, you know, opening up the Onit Jim and Austin and having everybody come out there and like see the tangible facility and you know acquiring black swan yoga I mean there's all these kind of key moments that were really cool um but you know the biggest one was of course that first one where I realized

Starting point is 00:16:15 holy shit we have a business that's going to fulfill you know one of my lifelong missions to help support you know support people in their own process and their own journey towards human optimization, you know, starting with the body and the mind and then ultimately through the spirit. And that's going to work. And not only that, I'm going to make a living and I'm going to make money, doing something that I love. And, you know, that first moment was, was kind of the watershed moment. Why do you think it's sold out? Joe Rogan. Really? I mean, yeah, I mean, he is so, he was talking about on his podcast, you know, it was a formula that we'd worked on together in a certain way in the fact that he was trying it and giving me feedback. And it was

Starting point is 00:16:56 something that he was really looking forward to. And, you know, I make no qualms about it. You know, for all of the early sales that we had, you know, that's all nothing but gratitude to him for stepping up and willing to be a partner in this little tiny company that that we had. So, yeah, that was a, that was a huge move. What is, so what is Joe's role? Is he mainly, uh, kind of a promoter? I know he has, he is the, the main, I mean, he's got the one of the best podcast ever. Um, still, still crushing it. I know you're a frequent guest, but is that his main role is promoting it? Or does he have other involvement?

Starting point is 00:17:32 I don't think Joe Rogan promotes anything. Or he just talks about the shit that he likes. Right. Just so happens that we're friends and then we can collaborate on making shit that both of us like. Yeah. And I think that's always been the deal from the start. Like, hey, we're going to make some cool shit, talk about the shit that you like. And, you know, he's the first to call us out for if we do some shit that he doesn't.

Starting point is 00:17:56 like as well. And I love that relationship. I like that part of it, that it's not anything formal. But, you know, he has talked about it on many, many podcasts. He's worn our shirts at weigh-ins. He's supported us in an infinite variety of ways. And he has a, you know, he's a big piece of the company, both as an owner and as, you know, someone who's just been a part of the spirit of what this thing is. I just got back from a workshop, Aubrey, where people were asking questions about from others to say, you know, how have you been able to build relationships with people of like the like the like the joe rogans of the world what was it like at the beginning how did you develop a relationship with joe at the beginning of it yeah well that's you know you can't

Starting point is 00:18:38 think about the relationship as far as what i did the moment i met him because to be friends with joe rogan it was a lifelong process of becoming the type of person that could be friends with joe right exactly right yeah and that's that's where i think people get fucked up they think like oh if i could just meet this person or blah blah blah we'd be friends like really like what would you talk about? Like what would be interesting? What is the value proposition of your friendship? You know, do you have interesting opinions? Do you have interesting information? Do you have cool things to say? Do you have experiences you can draw from? And that's the thing because I'll have people who come to meet me for these events and they're like, you know, I just know we should be friends and

Starting point is 00:19:15 working on this. I was like, yeah, okay, cool. Let's talk. You know, like what, where have you been? What have you done? And then the people who have pushed themselves past boundaries and have, you know, dedicated themselves to some path of greatness. Those are the ones that end up being my friends, actually. And it's not because of the encounter that we had. It's because of the life that they spent, you know, pushing the boundaries themselves. And I think that's really, that's really the key. I was, you know, I was willing to go into the darkness and I was willing to go into the shadows and I was willing to explore and read books and learn and question. And so by the time we met, what was going to be a 30-minute coffee turned into a four-hour dinner

Starting point is 00:19:55 just because we were enjoying conversation so much. Wow. What were you just talking? Do you remember what you talked about? Aliens and super-volcanoes and the genetic bottleneck theory and, you know, psychedelics. And, you know, you can listen to our podcast and see how we can wrap for a couple hours. I have. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:13 I think the important point there is that, You establish your own credibility and your beliefs and the way that you live and what you do as opposed to just trying to network with influencers. Right. And there's a big difference. And that's where the mistake can happen where, because I've seen you actually in Lake Tahoe with this where, you know, there's a lot of these famous guys and you're not out there trying to connect with these guys. You're just being yourself and naturally have this, you have this kind of this magnetic personality that I think it makes people want to spend time around. you what there's it's not like you're not you're just being and I think that's that's an important quality for people to think about as um this becomes more and more now with with social media

Starting point is 00:20:56 and everything going on that if you should probably focus more on yourself and looking inward as opposed to trying to make these connections with the joes of the world yeah exactly and I and I think also people detect you know people detect you really can't fake it like people will know if you're after them for something. You know, like, if you have an agenda, people will sniff that out. That could be a girl that you're trying to hook up with. That could be a guy that you're trying to get to

Starting point is 00:21:25 know or an investor you're trying to court. You know, if you're coming to them from scarcity, rather than a feeling of abundance, like, I have a lot of great friends and I have a really good thing going and if we want to hang, cool. If not, I'm cool with that too. You know, that, unless

Starting point is 00:21:41 you come with that attitude, you know, it's going to be a repellent and it's going to be really difficult to overcome. So, you know, just be comfortable and be comfortable in your own skin. Be comfortable where you are and know that you don't need anything. But yeah, it would be cool to be friends with somebody like that. And then, you know, when you get the opportunity, just, you know, just show up as yourself. But also I think it's, there is, there is a point where, you know, like, at least for me now, even though I haven't done what a lot of these guys have done in the field of athletics, I've pushed myself through similar limits in my own spiritual practices, in my own

Starting point is 00:22:19 business practices. So when I look at them and they look at me, whether we acknowledge it verbally or not, the feeling is brother. Like, hey, brother, like, I see you. You know, I see, I see a fellow journeyman. I see a fellow, you know, warrior who's fought against the demons that are inside. You know, like, I see someone who I recognize. And I think that's also really important that you know that you've done the work even if it hasn't you know led to a million dollar contracts and playing on tv every sunday you've done some you've done some shit in the quiet in the dark that you can look at that person and smile and be like yeah i see you brother what would what would you identify as some of those things well you know i think some of the greatest

Starting point is 00:23:05 challenges we all face are not the external challenges it's not starting a business and being successful or, you know, writing a bestselling book, that's all great. And I think there are a lot of challenges that come from that, but it's really facing the internal demons. Like, what are your deepest fears? What are the fears that lie at the root of your being? Is it a fear of death? Is it a fear of abandonment? Is it a fear of not being good enough? Is it a fear of not being worthy of love? And then finding the ways to go into those fears and go really deep within yourself and face them and confront them and ultimately work towards overcoming them. I mean, I think that's the most important work that any of us can do.

Starting point is 00:23:49 Another interesting aspect of you, Aubrey, I think of, is the way that you view rules, particularly whether you decide to break them or follow them. And what is your viewpoint on rules and the potential to break certain ones? Yeah, rules are bullshit. Rules are bullshit. I mean, rules are good for, you know, like dogs and like maybe for animals that like need, need structure because they don't have any understanding. But, you know, human beings should be driven by morality, not by rules. Like, they should be driven by what's right and what's wrong. And rules oftentimes get in the way of that. And, you know, it's not like you

Starting point is 00:24:35 should intentionally flaunt the rules or intentionally follow the rules. I think the rules are inconsequential, you have to pay attention to the actual consequences of those rules, but really you should be guided by your own morality. You know what I mean? Like if, and this could be really anything, we could be talking about the ability to, you know, experiment with your own consciousness, you know, using psychedelics in a safe, comfortable environment and comfort of your own home where you're not putting anybody at risk and you're doing that. Like no way that should be a rule that that should be illegal. And it won't be for long. It's just like some of the old rules of the past that kept different races separated or kept women from voting. I mean, we're going to look at some of these

Starting point is 00:25:16 rules and look back and be like, Jesus, that was archaic. And so those rules shouldn't have been followed then. The slavery rules shouldn't have been followed then, but those were the rules. So you can't listen to the rules. You got to follow your own internal compass and really understand what's important. Some rules make sense. Don't go through a red light. You know, like, yeah, that's generally a rule that you should follow. But if it's the middle of the night and I'm on a, I'm on the street by my house, I'm on Southwest Parkway and looking at William Cannon and I know for a hundred percent sure that there are no cars on the road, I just go through it. I stop and then I just go through it. Like I don't, I know it's just because it's a rule doesn't mean you have to

Starting point is 00:25:58 follow it always. It's generally a sensible idea. But that rule at that point isn't sensible. It doesn't makes sense for me to wait 30 seconds when I 100% see that there's nobody within a quarter mile in any direction. You know what I mean? So I don't follow that rule. And so that's a microcosm and then a macro as far as the exploration of outcomes. How about in the realm of now building a company that's starting to, like we talked about, the 180 people and a lot of people listening have worked at, you know, big companies where

Starting point is 00:26:32 there are a lot of rules that I think we struggle with and don't understand why they're there that don't make much sense like you know you can't go through the red light even if there is no cars in sight but sometimes the reason companies do that is because they're they've gotten abused or people have not their their own morality was bad or whatever may be so how do you handle the as you're building a business that has now is at some scale with some people do you guys have policies do you talk about this or do you openly say there are no rules or how does this work it on it? Well, you know, I mean, I think we we typically try to keep the rules to a minimum, but there has to be process. Like there has to be process, otherwise there's

Starting point is 00:27:13 confusion and chaos. So process and structure is different from rules. That's just going to be helpful, you know, and that that makes the most sense. But it doesn't mean that it's a hard and fast rule that there's at every single time you have to follow that. So the structure is super important and you have to have that in place. And then there are some rules that we've actually had to employ. And, you know, these are rules about, like, talking about sex and making jokes about sex in the office. Like, in this day and age, that's such a slippery slope in such a gray area that as a company, you have to make that hard and fast rule and say, look, we just can't do that anymore. People aren't comfortable, you know, with that kind of discussion. It's hard to know

Starting point is 00:27:57 where the boundary is. And so you do have to make a rule regarding that. And then there's some other rules that, you know, are well-intentioned as well that we absolutely have to follow, and those are, and want to follow. And those are rules involving the safety and compliance of our products, you know, the good manufacturing practices, the FDA standards, the FTC standards, you know, I mean, these are things that you just don't, you don't mess with. So it's a balance of that. But then it's when it comes to, you know, vacation time, we don't have a fixed amount of vacation time, but we do have a process for putting in your request for vacations and alerting your supervisor. So it's really about process and support and then using rules only when

Starting point is 00:28:37 you really need those, you know, but really trusting that people are, they're bought into the mission and they all want to see the company succeed. And if everybody wants to see the company succeed and that's a primary task, then it really allows you to get away with a lot fewer rules. Like, you're not fingerprinting people in, fingerprinting people out of the office to see exactly how much time they were there because you realize it doesn't matter how much time they were there. It matters the quality of time they put in. So, you know, I think it's that, it's that kind of balance. You mentioned at the beginning, but I've met, do you call your fiancé or your partner or what do you call Whitney? Yeah, my fiance. Fiancé Whitney. And you have an interesting approach, I think,

Starting point is 00:29:20 to your relationship or relationships. I'm curious as to how I won't, you know, you can, you can explain what that is if you'd like. If not, we can skip it. But I'm curious as to how you got to this point because you're a questioner, right? You are always looking for, I think, a better way to optimize your life in all areas of your life. And I'm curious how you got to the point to where you are and your relationships. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:46 Well, you know, it started questioning about the nature of love, you know, is love possessive? Is love owning another person in any way, shape, or form or is love supporting them? in whatever, you know, is their deepest heart's desire and in loving them, you know, without requiring anything in return. And really coming from that philosophical standpoint and then backing into what a relationship looked like, you know, if we abided by those rules of, of what I understood capital L love to actually be, you know, like true, true love, like a love that a parent has for their child, not one that's all ego-driven and wanting their kid to succeed, so it makes them look better, but that true, genuine love, you know, and not the lust that you

Starting point is 00:30:31 find at the start of a relationship, but real love. And how does that look expressed through a relationship? And it's led us down a really wild and beautiful and challenging journey through open relationship and exploration of our own boundaries and rules and understandings with each other. And, you know, it's a topic that a whole podcast and probably my whole next book is going to be about. But it's been quite an interesting journey. And again, just constantly learning and constantly opening myself up to understanding myself even deeper and also understanding love and an even deeper way. I was talking to my wife a lot about this, Aubrey. I bet this happens quite a bit when people listen to you and then know your message.

Starting point is 00:31:16 And when you mentioned the open relationship aspect of it, that's like a scary word to a lot of people. And so I know you probably get asked this a lot, but I can't help it. But I don't know how that would work. For me, I don't see any way that it possibly could. How does this work for you? Like, how to know, like, you guys are open about the fact that you and Whitney are both like, I don't like to use the word aloud, but it's, that's part of your. relationship, right?

Starting point is 00:31:47 Is that you can be with other people? Is that correct? That's correct. Is that, like, the first time that happened, did that kill you? I mean, like, I don't, I, not just the first time that happened, man. Like every time, I mean, is it still happening? Not every time. It still happens.

Starting point is 00:32:01 Absolutely. And it feels, it's one of the worst pains I've ever felt in my life. And so let's not get this twisted. This isn't some fucking fairy tale. It was a super enjoyable experience. This is hunting the shadows of your soul. This is hunting the boundaries of your ego and those fears and insecurities that lie at the very root of your identity as a man and identity as a person.

Starting point is 00:32:22 This is hunting these things, you know, and it's going to bring them to light. And what it feels like is it feels like you've just gotten struck by lightning, right, in the solar plexes, and you don't know whether you're going to pass out or if you're going to puke or if you're going to just need to lay down and curl up in a fetal position. And that feeling will last sometimes for an hour, sometimes for a day, sometimes for a week as new thoughts come in your mind and it just feels like you keep getting zapped by some taser that's right below your heart and and you have to work through that and start to question well why do I feel that where is it coming from what am I holding on to and it's it's hell but then on

Starting point is 00:33:06 the other side as you release that and become lighter and require less validation and understand who you are as an individual and that you're worthy of love not because of your attributes not because someone is having sex with you and you alone that you're worthy of love because you are worthy of love then you open yourself up to the greatest joy and ecstasy that you could imagine you know it's really can be like heaven so you know kind of it's the that that ancient journey through hell to heaven And, you know, I mean, the joy of the relationship that I've experienced is by far greater than any other joy I've ever felt. But, you know, no doubt, the lows are there as well. But I do feel like the lows are educational.

Starting point is 00:33:51 You know, it's not just subjecting yourself to random torture. It's learning. It's growing. It's becoming, you know, a better human being. It seems like a much more of a roller coaster way to have a relationship. Is that accurate? Yeah, in a way, but that seems more... Have you always had open relationships?

Starting point is 00:34:15 It seems like a roller coaster, to me, seems like the bumps are like, you know, kind of randomly in. Like, this will have, this will have natural volatility because it's going to push, it's going to push the thresholds of certain breaking points. So you're going to break and fall and then build yourself back up and break and fall and build yourself back up. It's more like, imagine like training to become a bull rider. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:34:38 Like, you wouldn't call it. riding a bull a roller coaster it's more like getting the skills together to try and you know get yourself into that kind of flow where you can manage the beast of your emotions and sometimes you're going to get gourd and sometimes you're going to trample and sometimes you're going to need to spend you know a month in the psychic hospital to get recovered and sometimes you're going to fucking ride and jump off and you're going to throw your hat into the stands and you're going to be feeling like you know king of the world You know, so it's, it is a process, absolutely. And you have to be willing to take on that additional load.

Starting point is 00:35:13 You know, it is like saying, all right, well, now in addition to my normal load of everything I'm doing, I'm also going to train to become an emotional bull rider, you know, and ride out these feelings of ego and jealousy and see if I can manage those without getting bucked off and, you know, horn gored through my heart. I could talk for another two hours about this, but I'll, I'll move on because I know maybe we can do another one where we focus on that because I while I don't you know I question everything too maybe not to your level but I you know been identified as a questioner with everything really everything but that was one area where I thought

Starting point is 00:35:54 I don't I don't really question that part for me like I don't know I when you talk to somebody like me who's in a committed you know monogamous relationship with someone I'm married to have been for years do you think That guy just hasn't figured it out yet, or you think, well, I guess that's just how it has to be for them. Like, what do you think about people like me, I guess? Well, I think there's, you know, you got to, there's many ways, there's many ways to know the self. Okay. And there's many ways up the mountain.

Starting point is 00:36:22 And this is one way to know the self. And, you know, I think this is not for everyone. Just like ayahuasca is not for everyone. Just like, you know, certain psychedelics aren't for everyone. It's for those who really want to know the self. in this particular way, know the self beyond these fears and insecurities that are naturally existing. And it's, I mean, I'm not an advocate for open relationship, but I am an advocate for understanding the dynamics of relationship, an advocate for understanding what love is. And whether what you do with your

Starting point is 00:36:58 body, you know, I mean, that's just, that's just a choice. But I think having these conversations about about the possession of sexuality, about, you know, this idea that we're only supposed to be attracted to each other, you know, that it's just not really true. You know what I mean? Like, and collapsing the, collapsing the disparity between what you talk to your guys about and what you talk to your wife about, like, I don't think that's necessary. I think we can all just, whether we decide to open up our relationship or not, we can all just be honest and just realize like, we're all going to be, we're all monkeys, we're all attracted to other monkeys. It's all good.

Starting point is 00:37:34 Doesn't mean we have to do it. Let's just be conscious of the sacrifice that we're making for each other and not pretend that the reason we're not having sex with somebody is because the only person we have eyes for is our spouse. You know, like let's just keep it honest, keep it real. And then for those rare few who want the trial by fire, you know, got to go into it knowing that part of the benefit

Starting point is 00:37:57 is not just sleeping with another person. That's like that's going to happen. And that'll be, you know, that can be great, but really the benefit is knowing the self and doing that hard work. But that is going, circling all the way back. Like, this is one of the things that when you can talk to the most elite performer in the world and I can tell them what I've gone through an open relationship and they'll look at me and they may have done, you know, seven tours of active duty in the special forces and they'll

Starting point is 00:38:24 look at me and they'll go, I don't know how the fuck you did that. You know what I mean? Exactly. And so that's one of those moments where someone can look at you and go like, I see you, other. And this is one of those ways where you can really challenge yourself to to uncover what's under the surface. Yeah. Well, Aubrey, like I said, your story is, is incredible. And what made you want to put this into a book, Own the Day, Own Your Life, Optimized Practices for Walking, Working, Learning, Eating, Training, Playing, Sleeping and Sex, you,

Starting point is 00:38:57 that's what you talk about and Own the Day, Own Your Life. Why publish this and why do it Well, there's so much information that we've collated and gathered from all the people we work with and all the, you know, research that's been out there. There's over 300 clinical academic references in this book. And there's so much out there that we needed a place to consolidate it. And what made the most sense in a place to consolidate it is not worry about a long-term program or changing everything in your life. Let's just change everything in a day. Yeah. Because everybody can do one day.

Starting point is 00:39:30 And so when I really understood, we could take total human office. optimization make it about a single day and and then by people feeling what that day feels like they could feel how a different life might feel and and that was really the motivation behind the book what was the process like to get this thing done man I think writing a book is painful and long and hard what was it like for you and again it goes back to that mental override thing so turning the knob in the shower you know like I used to look at writing and I would write on the good days the days I felt like writing the days when like the stars were in alignment and fucking everything was perfect and I had I was inspired and energetic when you're writing a book that's over 100,000

Starting point is 00:40:09 words and you got deadlines you don't have time for that shit. You got to show up and you got to write. You got to put in you got to put in the sweat, the blood, the sacrifice. You got to pay the blood price. And I did that for this book and that was a really valuable process. And I've, you know, continued to do that over and over circling all the way back to that very first answer of like in talking about sustained excellence like this was a forge for me to become better at what I do you know because it forced me to work when I didn't want to work it forced me to say

Starting point is 00:40:41 no to the dopest pool party I could possibly imagine because I was editing my book for the seventh time and I had to read it even though I could practically memorize it but I needed to check it one more time and you know all of these different decisions you know you pay the blood price And then knowing that you did that, now I can really divorce myself from the expectations of the outcome and really know that I did my best. And whatever happens, whether it makes a list or whether it commercially successful, I know I created the best book I could create. I commend you, man. Not only for the book, but for everything, you've built it on it. And the way you live your life, I'm obviously a follower and have a joy of hanging out with you at Packer Games in Lake Tahoe at the Celebrity Tourners.

Starting point is 00:41:26 It's been cool to do it. I hope to, I would love to see again soon. It'd be cool to catch up in person, man. I tell you. You guys got to come out to Austin. I would love to. I would love to and hang out in the gym and check it out. I would see the pictures and the videos and it looks like in an awesome place.

Starting point is 00:41:42 Is that? What was the reason to have an in-person gym? I mean, why did you want to have that in addition to the company? What was the purpose of that? Well, I mean, this is like the physical proving ground for all of these different concepts and ideas. You know, this is like the place where we get to put it all into action. And shit, it's the thing that I wanted to have the most. You know, I'm sitting in the office. What do I want to do? You know, I want to walk next door and get a keto smoothie and go hit the gym. And, you know,

Starting point is 00:42:12 that's heaven for me. So, you know, in the most selfish way possible, you know, part of me creating this was just creating the best experience for myself. Awesome. Well, we'll, we'll get together. I want to plan a time to get down to Austin and check it out and we can hang out in person. It'd be great. Hey, by the way, did I miss anything before we take off here? No, just the URL is own the daybook.com. And yeah, that's it. That's it. I appreciate it. Ownedaybook.com. I was going to ask you, where would you send my listeners? Because you're active on social media too, which is a great follow on all of them, Instagram. Where would you send them to find you online? Yeah, I would say Instagram at Aubrey-Marcus

Starting point is 00:42:53 and then the book, own the daybook.com. Awesome. All right, Aubrey, thanks again, man. I know it's a whirlwind with book launch time, New York all over the place. Good luck with it. And I'm excited for you. And I'd love to chat soon and hang out in person too, man. Okay. Me too. Sounds good, Ryan. All right. See you, man. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. That was definitely an interesting conversation. But that's what I love about doing the show is getting to speak with people who have different points of view about a variety of topics, especially when it comes. the relationship. I have never spoken to anyone who feels the way Aubrey does. And like I said, it was eye-opening. And I enjoy having conversations like that and learning about other people.

Starting point is 00:43:37 So big thank you to Aubrey for joining me. And thank you for listening. I'd love it if you would write a review. Subscribe and rate the show in iTunes Apple Podcast. That's write a review. Subscribe and rate it. Hopefully five stars in iTunes Apple Podcast. It certainly helps spread the message. And as you know, I love doing this more than just about anything. in the world outside of spending time with my family. So thank you for giving me this opportunity and for supporting the show. I will see you next week. Can't wait.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 253: Aubrey Marcus - Total Human Optimization (Own The Day, Own Your Life)

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