The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 269: Charlie Spaniard (UFC Fighter) Interviews Ryan Hawk - My Leadership Framework

Episode Date: August 5, 2018

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk #269: Charlie Spaniard (UFC Fighter) Interviews Ryan Hawk - My Leadership Framework Show Notes: The WHO - "The most important question is WHO. Who will be your mentor? Who will be your friends? Who will you help? Who will you spend time with? You don't need to answer what until well after you've answered WHO." -- Jim Collins The importance of cognitive diversity Growth oriented people -- Why I like to be surrounded by those types of people The importance of time and maturity and "life reps" to develop my curiosity. "As you learn more, you realize there is so much more to learn" "Great leaders are willing to push."  -- The impact Ron Ullery and Bob Gregg had on my life How preparation builds confidence -- "The greatest medicine for fear is preparation" Learning how to prepare for big moments How to use productive paranoia as fuel Building leadership skill over time "Finding your voice as a leader.  It's time to speak up." There is a part of leading that is the "directing" part Earning respect through your actions before saying a word Playing quarterback is the "most cerebral position in all of sports" The incredible mind recall and brain capacity of Aaron Rodgers Why the Arena Football League helps you anticipate The importance of consistency - "Showing up" everyday Why loving the work is so important when embarking on a difficult challenge Who you marry will play a big role in your future success -- "Marry well" Reading The Five Love Languages Say "thank you" multiple times per day to your spouse Write "thank you" notes every week "How you do anything is how you do everything" The impact of my family upbringing -- Episode to listen to: Keith Hawk & AJ Hawk The responsibility to sustain excellence because of being lucky to have great parents and siblings The importance of "showing up" as a parent The decision to go to Miami University and compete against Ben Roethlisberger to be the starting QB at Miami Why I moved to Oxford the day after I graduated high school "Taking the next step" -- What I learned from Alison Levine Why I started The Learning Leader Show instead of pursuing A PhD at a University Framework: Learn, Experiment/Do, Reflect, Teach. The practice of writing one "thank you" note per day from John Kralik and how it could change your life Why joining The Learning Leader Circle is a good idea Use the "Get To Know You Document" Social Media: Follow Charlie on Twitter: @charliespaniard Connect with me on LinkedIn Join our Facebook Group: The Learning Leader Community To Follow Me on Twitter: @RyanHawk12

Welcome to the Learning Leaders Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thanks so much for being here. We're doing something a little bit different with this one. I'm releasing this episode that I did as a part of another show called Spaniard 101. The host, Charlie Brenneman, reached out to me to be a guest. And I thought he asked some thoughtful questions that created dialogue that I had never spoken about publicly. And I'm appreciative of Charlie for doing it. that and we thought it would be a good idea to release it on both of our feeds. So this has already been released on Charlie's show and now we're releasing it here on the Learning Leader Show as a bonus episode. Charlie was a Spanish teacher turned MMA fighter who has been on some incredible UFC cards, also a speaker, like I said, a teacher, a best-selling author, a really thoughtful guy and I enjoyed this conversation. A few of the topics that we got into my upbringing, more about my family and how they have impacted me, some of the great coaches in my lives, my process of

learning how to learn, my decision to go to Miami University to compete against Ben Rutherzberger to be the starting quarterback, some of the adversity along the way, how I've built confidence, how I've developed into a leader in some of the commonalities among other great leaders I've spoken to, then what it means to play the position of quarterback and what I've taken from the field into the space of leadership and running a business. And a lot more. I really enjoy the questions that Charlie asked and what came out of this one. So I hope you do too. If you did, send me an email, Ryan at learning leader.com. And we can talk more. All right, here we go. All right. So yeah, I appreciate you taking the time to be here.

it, you know, this is one of those interviews or conversations where I thought like, hmm, what am I really interested in? I'm interested in learning. I'm interested in sports. I'm interested in training. I'm interested in all the same stuff that you're interested in. So I thought, you know what? I want to reach out of this guy and I want to get to meet him.

So thank you so much, Ryan, for being here. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's just cool to see everything that you've done. I was looking through your book and all the podcasting. It's really your story's incredible, man. so I'm excited to be here. I appreciate that.

And it's neat to, you know, like synergy gets kind of a bad rap. You know, it kind of gets a cheeseballish word. But honestly, being around people like you, talking to people like you, learning from you, swapping stories with you, like to me, that's what it's all about. So maybe actually, let's use that as a takeoff point. So, you know, growing up and I want to get into your story, your background, you know, both athletically, professionally, et cetera. But what does that mean to you, the idea of surrounding yourself with people like you or whom you aspire to be like?

Well, I do like cognitive diversity, meaning I like a diverse group of thinkers. However, I like to be surrounded by growth-oriented people, people that understand that today is the worst that they're ever going to be. I mean that honestly, meaning because we're constantly striving to improve, to grow, to learn, and I like to be surrounded by those types of individuals because it lifts me up. I also like to be surrounded by people that are either have more experience than me, have more wisdom than me, have mastered a specific area of life that I haven't yet. Those are the types that I want to spend time around because I feel like the opportunity for me to learn directly from them is high as long as long as I'm around them.

We've all heard the phrase, the quote, that you become the average of those five people you spend the most time with. And I believe that based on my experience, based on my life and the people I've been fortunate enough to speak with and some of my great teammates that I've had when I played sports. So I really, I love, love that you started there. And the idea, you know, actually yesterday, pretty much every day when I do the things I do, I think to myself, why am I doing this? And it goes back to just because, like, for me, it's Rocky. Like, that's what Rocky does. So that's what I do. But then when you're when you got to kind of like break it, like, for example, if I would explain it to my wife or when I'd explain it to someone who's not of that same mindset.

Like what you said there, you like to surround yourself with people who are interested in getting better, who want to get better, who want to learn, who want to, you know, all that different stuff. To you, is it about like, is it a specific reason or is it just like, you know, you're born with two arms and two legs just like you're born with this mindset of, yeah, I'm just going to go learn. That's just what you do. I actually think I needed time and maturity to develop this mindset. I think as I grew up, probably wasn't as curious as I am. I'm not even close, actually.

I was really myopically focused on sports growing up, specifically football in high school and college. And all I thought about was being a professional football player. As I've matured and gotten older and had my eyes opened by interesting people who made me think, I think as you learn more, you realize there's so much more. to learn. And that's what's really driven my curiosity, I believe. Yeah, I mean, I'm the same way. I'm not like, I've never been identified as OCD, but man, like once I get on a learning rabbit hole, I just can't stop. And I just, it's like, it's almost a problem at times in my life. You mentioned, you know, people that make you think. Okay. So I really like diving into like

specificity. So first, can you remember the first person or, a first person or a memorable person that you remember thinking for the first time, wow, that's different than I thought before. That's a really good question. My high school offensive coordinator, Ron Allerry, really challenged me a lot. And so I would say he made me do a lot of things. Definitely made me rethink how I worked, how I prepared, how I built confidence. and it changed a lot of my behavior.

And that got me on this path, I believe, is being fortunate to be surrounded by and led by a great coach. I also learned in that moment that great leaders are willing to push. And sometimes, especially in the business world, and I have fallen victim to this from time to time, as the leader or the manager or the boss, you just want to be light. and I have a drawback from coaches like Ron Allery to say,

that's nice. However, your job is to help them reach levels that they didn't even realize they could potentially reach. And so he really cemented that for me. And I try to live up to that every day and certainly fail from time to time. But that's the first person that came to mind when you asked me that was him. And so the first two words I wrote down to kick up. off this conversation we're learning and leader right and we'll get into your show and the title of your show but before we get to the leader part i want to talk about confidence because you know confidence

is something that you know like in a wrestling match is they say get up get up get off the yeah well if i could get up i'd get up you know it's not like i want to be here you know or you know when i was wrestling especially you know it took me to i was a grown man until i really started to be confident in myself but come on just you got to be confident well guess what i'm not confident so where where does confidence lie then and where does it lie now with you? Was it something where because of your upbringing, because of your genetics, because of all of the working factors, you were naturally confident, or did you have to work at that? Definitely not naturally confident. It was built through preparation. And to this day, it is still built. That's it. Preparation. My confidence I learned from eighth grade

going into my freshman year, I was pushed to work harder than I've ever worked in my life. And I knew when we step on the field on Friday nights that we were more prepared. We had worked harder. We were better conditioned. We had had more repetitions of running our offense, of executing than anybody we played against. And that was true because we weren't as talented as, I would say most of the teams that we played against yet, we had success. And so I've learned, I've taken from there that I learned how to prepare,

for moments. So whether it's a podcast interview, a speech, one-on-one advising, a big meeting, whatever it may be, that my confidence to have success during that moment is going to be built in what I do leading up to it. And like I said, I learned that in the eighth grade, how to really prepare, how to work. And I've known, like, if you think about any moment in your life where you haven't been confident it going into it, whether it's a fight, a wrestling match, a football game, a speech. Usually my nerves for feeling like I'm not going to succeed are highest when I know I haven't

prepared as much. And that's the tell for me every single time. And that's why I have kind of built up this productive paranoia around preparation for these big moments in my life. Yeah, I mean, you nailed it. And you obviously, you and I have never spoken before. so you've never heard me tell it. Listeners, you know, you probably have heard me say it before. But, you know, to touch on that idea of preparation, it was the same for me. I was, I was not

the super, you know, I was, like, confident except when I got to, like, the biggest, baddest, toughest wrestlers. And then when I started fighting, like, fighting's a whole other beast. It's not a football game. It's not a wrestling match. It's a fight. So you'll really knock me out if this doesn't go well. You know, that's one-on-one. That's what you're trying to do to me. So that just scared the heck out of me, which then caused me to push myself to a level that I never knew I could push myself. And it was like, oh, wait a minute, that's where confidence comes from. So a listener out there, if you're sitting there thinking like, I want to be caught, just work harder than everybody else.

If there's ever a strategy for developing confidence, that's it. Like you said, you hop on the field. You know, hey, I prepared more for you. And Ryan, I don't know if you knew this, but I was on a reality TV show, Pros versus Joe's. And we got to play against other professional athletes. athletes, football, basketball, et cetera. And that was the first time in my life where I directly saw my preparation correlate to victory.

And it was like this giant aha moment. What did you do? What was this event? So the show was called Pros versus Joe's. Yeah, I remember that show. Spike TV, yeah. So I was on the first season. And I played, I ran against Justin Gatlin.

I played soccer against Brandy Chastain, baseball, Darren Dalton, John Rocker, football against Goldberg and Kevin Green. I feel like there's a couple other ones that I'm missing. Yeah, it was, how do you prepare for those, all those different activities? Yeah, so I was a junior high Spanish teacher at the time, right? So I had graduated from Lock Haven. I finished round of 12, college wrestling. I did pretty, you know, I did pretty good, but I was like, you know, I'm done competing.

And then I just got bored with life. So on a whim, I applied for this reality show. And I just like, I didn't really know anything about it. It was, it was, I lucked out in that not a lot of people knew about the show and it was kind of under the radar. So I got selected. But I trained. I mean, so if I would say, you're a lifelong athlete, if I would say to you, hey, Ryan, we're having a competition next week or next month.

I can't tell you the details of it, but it's going to be pretty intense. You're going to compete with other athletes. Like, what would you do? You'd sprint, you'd lift. Yeah. You just do what you do. So that's what I did. I just, I trained like I was like going to a wrestling match or at that time.

I wasn't fighting. But anything, I push us, pull-ups, sprints, agility, just to be a key. human being and then kept my fingers crossed and hoped I was okay at the sports. That's awesome. That is so cool. So let's lean into a leader, right? So just talk about leader, leadership. When you were a kid, if it was inherent, if you always saw yourself as a leader, if it was your coach for the first time that made you think, hey, you know, I'm kind of a leader here. Yeah. So I'm a firm believer that for the most part,

part, the overall majority of leaders are built slash made. It's a learned skill. Certainly people have, from what I've seen, there are certain people who probably have some innate talent for it. However, I'm not one of those. And so I can speak from my own experience. I, in second grade, my coach asked me to play quarterback, and that's a natural leadership position. So I built, I think, some leadership skill through playing that position, having to call the play, give little mini talks, played point guard in basketball, played shortstop in pitcher and baseball. But the really defining moment, again, I go back to those coaches I had in high school. I started as a freshman on my high school team, and I didn't really say much.

I just executed the offense and tried to play well, being the only freshman on the varsity team. and it went well, but going into the second year, they said, look, last year was fine for you to call the play and to run the play and not really say anything else. But now you have to find your voice. It's time for you to speak up. That's part of leading is the directing part. And you haven't really done that yet. And you're going to need to learn to be a director in addition to just being somebody who executes. And that, so I really was fortunate, again, to have great team. teammates to have great coaches who helped me learn to find my voice. But I first thought it was it was so important to earn respect through my play and through my actions before I ever said a word outside of the play call.

And so it was probably helpful that I earned some of that respect my freshman year that going into my second year that people could look and say, this guy, he's performed under the bright lights as a young guy. He's earned the right to speak up. He's earned a right to direct. he's earned the right to coach, to lead, to teach. And so first, I think that's a good example to use in any business endeavor. You have to earn the right to speak up initially if you want people to actually listen

and to potentially follow you. And that's what I gathered at a pretty young age. Absolutely. And I just want to reiterate that one more time for the listeners, earn the right. You know, it's talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. But before you start talking, maybe like a year, five years a day, decade before you start talking, start working to really set the foundation for that. And can you talk this a little a little bit off topic, but it's fascinating to me because

I played, you know, I played football, but I was, I was not a quarterback. I, I don't really know the science of football. I don't understand the complexities of it, except that when you, you hear, you know, with some, I'm thinking Manning and Brady, obviously two of the best, you know, when you hear the play calling or you hear the behind the scene stuff with the shows that on TV. And it's like, holy cow, that is some complex stuff. Can you talk just like a bit off topic of leadership, but the subtleties of that position, all of the different things you need to know. Because, I mean, it does tie into leadership because you got to know, you're responsible. I'm a big fan of Jocko Willink and extreme ownership. I mean, if you're leading the team,

you've got to know everything. So what's the complexity like of a quarterback at a high level? Well, it's one of the most cerebral positions of all sports for certain. You have to know what the other 10 guys are doing on every single play. Not only do you have to get the play from the sideline, then you have to call the play. Then sometimes you have to help some of your teammates remind them what they're to do, especially early in the season. I found that to be the case. Then you have to read the defense, and you have to have potential checks or audibles

to maybe change the play. And that's all before. Then you actually have to execute the play of dropping back and throwing. And then once the play gets going, obviously you have to take the call the cadence, take the snap, read the defense post snap versus pre-snap, which usually is different. Then you have to see what they're doing. How are they trying to fool you? Then once you realize, okay, I got the look that I thought based on my film study from the week of preparation leading up to this game, now it's time to actually execute the throw. And I think what most people see or think when they're watching a game on TV is just that last part.

part of throwing the ball in the general vicinity of the receiver. And certainly you have to do that and you have to be accurate. But there's so much leading up that moment. And one of the things that I think you can't get a great feel for if you haven't done it is the feeling of big offensive linemen in your face. And you have to step into that throw all at the same time after doing all the things I just mentioned before. So there's a lot of, I think, horsepower from brain capacity needed to play it well for the most part to sustain excellence as a quarterback.

Then you've got to have the physical tools. You've got to make the right decisions. And that's why you see a lot of quarterbacks that don't go on to do other big things in their lives because they're forced to be in constant adversity to make decisions amongst a lot of chaos to be cool and calm under pressure. You see CEO is the best one seen to have a measured approach. that's where I think all of that comes from quarterback play. And that's why I love having conversations with other quarterbacks to say, what is it like for you? What have you experienced?

And then there's like this little fraternity, fraternity with other quarterbacks to say, oh, this is how it was for me. And there's similarities that you can draw from. Man, that whole segment was fascinating. Honestly, the first four examples you gave of the things you have to consider, I was like, oh, that's pretty good. And then there were like 10 more.

And it's like, oh, my gosh. And then you added the linemen coming at you. It's like, oh my gosh. You know, I watch, you know, I'm a pretty, pretty big, you know, more than casual football fan. And actually, you know, I do want to talk about Rathesberger a little bit because I guess you have a connection to him. But I just, I can't fathom.

You know, when I fight someone, I'm looking at them. They're looking at me. You know, their foot might come from out of my peripheral because it's a tricky kick or something like that. But I'm there. We're squared up. We're getting ready to fight. When you're a quarterback, you're, I mean,

what you just said, maybe hopefully if you're lucky you see the guy coming, but chance are you're not going to see him coming. But you've got to keep that calmness and that coolness and that composure. So what, based on all of that, do you think, and this might be, I don't know if you think about this or not, but do you think what makes great quarterbacks is that the, I don't even know the adjective, the cerebrown, the cerebrownness of them or their physical skills? It's usually a combination of both. When I've, I've had the good fortune to talk quarterback play with Aaron Rogers, who I think right now is probably the best. Tom Brady's right there too.

And what I found from talking to him is he's one of the smartest people, period, I've ever spoken to, not just football guys or not just quarterbacks, but just in general. And I think, and he has incredible physical talent. He can run. He can move. He's got an unbelievable arm. Everything about his play is world class. but what's maybe most impressive is his recall and its ability to think. There's a great YouTube clip of him.

It's about two minutes of doing something similar, what I just did, describing what it's like from the instant a play is over to what happens before the next play and everything that has to happen and you've got about 25 seconds and then you have to execute. So I think that if you don't have that brain capacity to do it, there are a few exceptions, but for the most part, I don't see any way you're going to have any type of sustained excellence or sustained success as a quarterback. You've got to be able to be thoughtful about it, to be able to see, to anticipate, to feel that rush and slide just a little bit in the pocket and then make the shot. So I think all of those things play a big role.

And certainly, I think there are a lot of guys actually who have the fiscal tools. I went to the camps coming out of high school, going into college. And I mean, it felt like everybody had the arm. Everybody had the physical tools, but not everybody had the mind. And that's the biggest difference between the ones who make it and the ones who don't. It's incredible, too. And I saw it in the UFC, and I would assume that, you know, you've seen it in football. Just the, you know, once you get to the highest levels, right, even at that level,

there's levels and levels and levels. And, you know, you just mentioned Rogers and Brady and I mentioned Manning as well. Like, it's fascinating to me. And I don't know if you've, you've had. personal experience or you want to add to this, but it's just so fascinating to me. Like every kid out there dreams of making it, right? I want to get signed to the UFC. I want to get to the NFL.

I want to get the major leagues. I want to get the NBA. But then when you get there, it's a whole other animal. And it's just a, to me, it's fascinating. But in your experiences, have you seen that? And have you like, do you remember just thinking like, holy cow, this is a whole other world? As far as moving up levels or? Yeah, moving up levels.

Then when you get to that next level, it's like, oh, my gosh, this is like just as hard as getting to this level, staying at this level. A lot of people say the biggest difference between going from high school to college or college afterwards is the speed. And there's a lot of truth to that. There's guys who would play receiver who are now playing defensive end. And they have that type of speed. And so that's the first thing I think you got to use to you hear about players

and all sports talking about. They really have a great. feeling when the game slows down a little bit. And maybe it's the same in fighting. I don't know. I've never been a fighter. I can't fathom doing that. So I just hold you guys in incredibly high regard.

But maybe there are moments when it slows down and you could see a kick or a punch coming and you know how to block or dodge that encounter. And I think in football, the same thing happens where you become better, especially as a quarterback at anticipating what the defense may do, anticipating what your receiver's going to do. I played in the arena football league that Kurt Warner came from. And what I think made Kurt Warner such a great NFL Hall of Fame quarterback is the fact that he learned in arena football league,

you have to anticipate even more than any other league. You've got to get rid of the ball because you don't have enough time. You just have to get rid of it. That's the first thing you learn quickly or you get pummeled. And so I think that's why he became so good when he went to St. Louis and Arizona is that he anticipated his receivers before they broke their routes. got rid of the ball and obviously did it better than just about anybody else for for a number of years. And that's, like most things, it just takes a lot of repetition and preparation.

And that's similar to what we've been talking about. Yeah, and that's a really neat crossover there. Having played in the arena, you know, football, then prepped him to be a great quarterback in the NFL. That's a really great, like, he wouldn't have learned that skill if he wasn't in that situation. So it's really neat to see how that transcended over. I think it, I know I've heard him say it. I think it was a big help. And I realized that quickly when I played in the league.

There's three linemen. So the guys in the D-Lignment are on you instantly. So it's quick drop and get rid of that ball. There was something whenever we were talking about, you know, quarterbacks and then football in general. One of the things I was actually, I was doing hill sprints this morning. And I asked myself, Why am I doing this?

And then I went back to just because it's what you do. And I thought, okay, that's just what I do. Then keep doing it. But I feel like hard work. You know, we've been talking about preparation, kind of specifically with football or with whatever task at hand. But also, I kind of feel like hard work transcends. Like there's a universal law that says hard work is the right thing.

Hard work is valuable. Hard work will help the dust settle. So basically what I'm saying is when I don't know where, I'm going or if I'm frustrated or when I, you know, post-fighting, it was like, what am I going to do? Or even now with, you know, growing my podcast and speaking, et cetera, it's, it's tough and it's hard. And a lot of times they don't know what direction to go. But I just feel in my gut, you know what, Charlie? If you work hard, it'll buff out.

Maybe it's, maybe it's working hard over here running sprints that it'll buff out over here on a podcast. Or maybe it's working hard around the house. But it's just the theme of hard work, right? So what is that like do you see that? Do you agree with it? Have you thought that? And what's your kind of attitude towards hard work in general? Yeah. I again, learn that early. But when it comes to the type of things that you and I do, podcasting speaking, helping other leaders get better, the difference between the ones who seem to sustain it and continue to go is that they consistently do it. They have consistent quality. hard work day after day after day. And so sometimes I'll be doing a talk and there'll be the Q&A portion of it.

And I will share some of the stories behind how something happened. So for example, I interviewed Clay Matill. He owned IMS. He sold it for $2.4 billion. So they say, okay, well, how did you get a chance to talk to me? He doesn't do podcasts. It was the first one he'd ever done. He doesn't do that.

And I did it in person and it was incredible is how did you do that? And I lay out the entire story. And the story is one, I think, of persistence and resilience. I spoke with the PR team two years ago. We've had four different phone calls. I then toured his facility that he built that where he now works since making all the money. I met with multiple members of his teams. We've had, I don't know how many phone calls.

I don't know how many emails. And two years after all of this action, we got about a 55-minute interview that I will release on video and as a podcast. on my feed on the Learning Leaders Show, and you'll hear it. And to the listener, it's just another 55-minute piece of content. But what went into that was two years of hours and hours and hours and hours of work. And they say, that seems crazy. And I would say, well, that's what it takes. Yeah.

That's what it takes sometimes. And it's not like that for every guest, obviously. But my point is to say, no, like that is the way that I'm going to think about my business, my approach to life in general is I'm going to be. persistent, very resilient. I'm never going to get down when someone delays something or they say no. Whenever someone says no, to me, I view it as not yet. And whenever I get delayed, hey, it's going to happen. Let's just keep doing it day after day after day. And for me, I think the biggest key has been the consistent quality, hard work, just like you're saying. I feel honest, honestly goodness,

Ryan, I feel like I just specifically asked you that question off air because it was like, I'm not kidding, man. Because I'm looking at, you know, I'm looking at your show, I'm looking at these gas and thinking, man, he's so far ahead. I wonder how he does it. I wonder how he does. Literally, you just answered like the deepest question in my belly that I wanted to. It's cool because I think that's, I like to, I don't know about you,

but I'll have fans reach out. And I'm sure this happens at email or social media, whatever happens, and they'll ask you questions. And I just did this yesterday where we had that conversation and they're asking about ways to get started or what to do or what to do or how has it been successful, how has it grown. And I'll share a story like that, which is not uncommon. And they'll think, wait, what? And I say, it's hard, man, it's really hard.

But I also say, and you probably feel the same way, I love it so much that I don't think I could do it and put in the work if I didn't love it. So that's why your story is cool from, like you said, your journey from the classroom to everything that you're doing is awesome. But I'm guessing the reason you have a chance and why you've been able to sustain excellence yourself is because you love it. And I'm a believer in that, that I don't think I would be able to put in the time and the work and the effort

it takes to be great at something if I didn't love it. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Just last week, actually, I was talking to my wife and I was kind of dejected. And, you know, I try to, you know, I teeter between that, like, speaking negatively, you know, I don't want to be negative, et cetera, but I also want to get it out of me. So like I'll pick and choose when to get it out of me. And I spouted to her for, I don't know, five minutes, pour my heart out. And then she sat there for a minute.

She said, well, Charlie, really, the only thing I have to say is remember this is what you signed up for. I was like, yeah, you're right. And then she said, you choose hard things. And I was like, yes, you're right. I love it. Smart wife. Yeah. By the way, side tangent, that having that, having that.

person in your life, especially when I speak to college kids, I'll tell them just to be very deliberate and thoughtful about that decision. Because having that supportive partner for me is everything. It's everything. And if I didn't have that support, that person that has those enlightened responses as you just received, I would, it would be nothing, none of this would have happened. There's just no chance. And I know, um, I, um, I would, um, I'm just very lucky and I realize that. So I think that's a side, very important piece of advice though. I think that's another like put this out there too,

just as you mentioned the hard work, which is securing guests and just it being persistent and resilient. Is that right there no matter how, you know, a great supportive partner you have? It's not easy. I mean, my, whenever like I got knocked out and whenever, you know, it was like, oh, wait, brain damage. Oh, wait, we have kids.

Then it was like it got really real, right? Then you've got to measure like, I'm saying like a lot, but then you got to measure what am I doing versus my passion versus my family versus all this stuff. So it's never pretty listeners. And that's a side that is not exposed very often. But it's never easy. Well, for me anyway, I'll speak for me. It's not cut and dry. It's not easy.

It's not black and white. There's always, always gray involved. And it is just like we're talking about hard work and this consistency and resiliency and never giving up with the work side, it's that way with the relationship. when you're involved in something that's atypical because it doesn't fit nicely into a puzzle or a piece, but you just kind of learn to go with it, really. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, 100% right, man. This is great.

Have you read the five love languages? So I have read like a PDF of it. I'm not going to lie and say I read the whole book, but I've heard so many good things about it. So I read the one of those, I just Googled it and, and look through it. Yeah, it was tremendous. So listeners, if you're looking for it. What's your language?

What's your and your wife's language? Well, for my wife, it's acts of service. Like that, I realize. And it's really weird. It's really weird, Ryan, because so I read, you know, I'm a big follower, Jocko Willink and all his leadership stuff and his book, Extreme Ownership. So I read it for a second time a few months ago.

And in conjunction with reading Extreme Ownership for the second time, I was reading five love languages for the first time. And there's such a similarity between extreme ownership, talking about putting the mission in front of yourself, right? And then you alluded to that early on as being the leader in your football team. But then in the five love languages, there was a sentence that said, like, do you want to be right or do you want to have a happy relationship? And it was such like, hey, oh yeah, yeah, the mission is the relationship.

The mission is the home. The mission is the family. So I'm going to take a step back here. And in the book, the guy said about, you know, he said, do you think I like mowing the grass? No, I don't. But I know my wife likes it. It's the same with the dishes. This is like the, I mean, this is a weird, weird path we've gone on here. But honest to goodness, I read that book. I thought, acts of service, I'm going to start doing the dishes. It's like, it's literally changed the, the stress that we have two little kids. It's a big deal. You know what? It's funny. It's weird that we got here, but I like it. that's one of my things I pick up is I always vacuum and I always do the dishes. My wife does a thousand times more than I do, but I try to do those two things. But the one thing that I would say is very small, but when I do a little bit of executive advising, and they're always surprised when I tell them this, but I say for your spouse, when they do something,

an act of service, whatever it may be, something as small as cleaning at the dishes or vacuuming or mowing the grass, make sure you thank them every single time and look them in the eye and say thank you for doing the dishes or thank you for mowing the grass or thank you for vacuuming the great room whatever it may be it makes a big difference and i know i like it my wife says thank you too so we have this constant practice of saying thank you especially in front of our kids yeah because then they see it and they're more used to having it ingrained in them to be grateful and to say thank you these are basic manners but to me they're very important because how you do anything is how you do everything.

And if you live this life of being grateful for even the small things, you'll be grateful for everything. And that's a big deal. And I just think it makes for a better relationship when both people are grateful for the good things that each one does. Absolutely. And it kind of ties into that, but mine is words of affirmation. So like, again, just letting me know when I do things.

It's really neat. Like listeners, I didn't expect me to talk about this. But if you're, I mean, your chances are you're like, Ryan and myself, and to some degree that you're listening to this episode. But it's worth getting and it's worth like really diving into if you're in. And this kind of goes, Ryan, with the whole theme of this conversation, what you started out with talking, this idea of surrounding yourself with people who want to get better. Well, what do you want to get better? And well, I want to be a better husband. I want to be a better father. I want to be a better podcast or a better writer, a better

a better everything, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So neither of you are our gifts. No, not at all. No. My wife and I know we wouldn't be the gift one either. It's funny. I know, not that there's a right or wrong answer, but sometimes you think that, but I know that's not our language either. Yeah. Nice. That was a fun little aside there. Let's backtrack. I want to talk about your upbringing. So I listened to one of your shows a long time ago. So actually, what brought you onto my radar, I have a listener from Ohio, who's a big fan of my show, but he's also a big fan of your show. And he said, Spander, you should get this guy. You should meet this guy. You should talk to him, introduce yourself. And the episode that he pointed me to was with you and your brother and your dad. And it was like, I listened to that interview or that conversation. And I thought, wow, these guys are like me and my brothers and my dad.

So talk about your upbringing. Talk about sports. Your dad's impact. Your brother and yourself, whether it was competition, whether it was alignment and teamwork, like just about those dynamics. because I'm always fascinated when people do it right. And it's something I want to learn from because I want to do it right for my kids. Me too.

Yeah. So I was lucky to have the model of the way to do it. And I know one of the reasons that I think I'm so motivated and ambitious to do what I do is because I was born into a situation that was so lucky. And I truly, truly know that with two great parents, an older brother, and younger brother. Kind of an idealic situation. It really was.

It still is. And we just had got together for Father's Day, the whole family together. And it was just like growing up. So we grew up here in Dayton, Ohio. We played a lot of sports, all sports. We lived, our backyard was a park. So there was just a big open fields, tennis courts,

all types of things in our backyard. We had a basketball court. We played a ton of basketball. we played tennis, ping pong, golf, football, baseball, like everything. And my younger brother, age, and I are only two years apart. So we played every sport together all the time every single day. That's what we did for fun. Really, I would say, healthy, friendly competition.

We didn't necessarily fight, but we definitely wanted to win, regardless of what it was. But then when we weren't playing against each other, we've always been each other's biggest. fan and whatever it is we're doing go to each other's games, cheer each other on, whatever it may be. And so we grew up in that type of a home. And my dad, especially, though, neither of our parents ever pushed us to play sports, but they were there if we wanted them. So my dad would wake up at any hour if we wanted to go shoot and he put lights up so we could shoot free throws late at night.

We could go to the batting cages late at night. We could wake up early in the morning and work out and he would be there with us. but he would never make us do it. I think that's partially why it was we were, we excelled at it is because we truly wanted to do it. Nobody forced us to do it. And then we did it and we had the support of our parents to be there and not necessarily push us, but to support us.

And then when we got some of those high school coaches, they pushed us hard. And I think that was necessary. And we both grew up and got college scholarships to play football. And I play a little bit, very briefly in the CFL in the arena football league and my younger brother AJ got drafted in the first round by the Green Bay Packers. He played there for nine years, played for the Bengals for a year and for the Falcons for a year.

I had 11-year career voted captain of his Super Bowl winning team. So I think very proud of that to see his work propel him to a career like that that has set him up to now do whatever you want to throw the rest of his life. And I think that's a pretty cool kickstart to the rest of your life when you can get your first 11 years as a professional playing sports and winning a Super Bowl. Yeah, you know what? I want to go back and ask some questions from them, but I must have listened to another episode where your brother was talking about,

I don't know if it was a podcast or a show or what it was, but he was talking about maybe going back, maybe not going back. Would he have documented that? Was it on an episode with you or just some? Yeah, listen. That was fast. Yeah, that was really fascinating. Yeah.

So when the Packers decided to let him go after nine years, we recorded a video together as the only media he was going to do. He wanted to kind of, we wanted to shift and have complete ownership over that message because we didn't want it to be construed or clipped. So we wanted long form. It's on YouTube. Yeah, it got shared a lot.

And so, but we wanted his full, complete message out there. And so that's the only real, that he did was our own media when he got released after nine years, shared everything. And I think people appreciated that. They liked that. And then he did get signed by the Bengals the following year and played with them.

And then a year after that, they played the Falcons for part of that season, his 11th year. And then after that, he was, he decided that he was done. And that was 11 good, good hard years. What's the name of that video on YouTube if the listeners want to watch it? I think it would be under his feed of YouTube. So the Hawk cast, H-A-W-K, C-A-S-T, I believe. If you search AJ Hawk and Ryan Hawk, it'll probably come up in YouTube. And I think what struck me the most about that, and then we can kind of lead this into the role it's played in your life, is just humility.

You know, you played your whole life. Your whole life, your brother did. And I think it was really that video or audio, whichever I listened to that I thought, like, wow, life, man. Like, life happens. You've got to go with it. You can't, you don't, you're not immortal. There comes a time where you're not what you used to be. So what's the role of humility played in your life,

either when you had to learn it the hard way or, to me, it kind of sounds like you were raised with very value-oriented parents, value-oriented family, where it was probably encouraged from a young age. But what is your take on humility and its importance in your life? Well, so there are, Charlie, there are two types of people. in the world, those that are humble and those that are about to be humbled. And I think we grew up with a lot of our parents instilled that in us. However, you mentioned Ben Rothersberger, so I'll go there now if you want to talk about

a time of being humbled. So I signed with Miami University here in Oxford, Ohio, in the Mac at a high school. Primarily, I had other opportunities, but I love the coaching staff and the offense. And I thought the starting quarterback of that team in this offense is great. going to play in the NFL. I truly believe that. It turns out I was correct. But another guy who signed, there's actually two other guys who signed. Ben Rothersberger was one of those two guys. And so Ben and I battled it out. And one of the things I did, though, after I graduated high school, was I moved to Oxford as only freshman, incoming freshman to move there early with the

goal of learning every teammate's name before the rest of the freshman got there for camp in August. And I did that and tried to earn respect through my work. Didn't really say a lot, but just like going in as a freshman in high school, do the workouts with the team, earn respect. Try to differentiate myself from this. Ben was probably the highest, most highly talented recruit in the history of the school. But to fast forward the story a little bit, it was a good lesson for me because after two years, we battled back and forth in that Thursday of our first game, my sophomore season, Coach Hepner, Coach Harry Hepner, the late, great Harry Hepner,

he named Ben the starter for the game against the University of Michigan at the big house, and he said we would rotate, which we did. I played receiver some. I rotated in, but ultimately, Ben was just too good. And he earned that job by outplaying me. And that is a tough, humbling moment

for a somewhat cocky, 19-year-old quarterback who thinks he's going to go to the NFL is you face somebody who is just flat out more talented than you, who's got a better arm than you, who's mobile, who's everyone's watched football and has seen what Ben has done. And it was a lesson, though, that I could put just about everything I had into it. And sometimes it's still not enough. I would imagine there are fights you fought where you've done everything you could and the dude bashed you in the face and knocked you out or something like that has happened where you felt

you've done everything. And they're good lessons because you're forced to then decide how am I going to respond in this moment of adversity? Am I going to get up and work harder and stay consistent? Or am I going to cry and feel sorry for myself? And for me, I thought I need to find a way to be a starting quarterback in Division 1 football. And I'm not going to let the health of somebody else determine my fate,

meaning if I'm the backup, then I have to hope he gets hurt. And I didn't want to live that way. So I ended up transferring to Ohio University where I was fortunate to play for a few years and finish my career and graduate from there. So I think that's, though, a very great moment at a good time in my life to be humbled for me to learn what it's like to compete on a daily basis to be in a stressful situation and to lose and to figure out how to respond to that loss.

Man, I'm glad that that line of questioning led into that response because that's such a powerful, such a powerful, just story. and to re-highlight what you said, and I think it's really important. And I don't know how many young people are listening to the show. I think most are a little bit older. But the idea that, yes, you can do everything right. You can train the hardest. You can do all that stuff right.

And you're still going to lose. And I had chills up and down my body whenever you were saying that. Because that's just the truth of life. And that's just the universal law that sometimes you're going to do everything right and not win. But that was fascinating. I'm originally from Holidaysburg-Altoon area, so a couple hours east of Pittsburgh, but we're Pittsburgh fans. So when I saw that, I was like, oh, nice. That's a pretty neat, pretty neat little tip.

I mean, it's cool to see the career that he's built for himself. I mean, he's an incredible player. And it's certainly an experience that I'm grateful for now at the time that I thought, man, why didn't he just go to Ohio State? He had an offer of Ohio State. He went there. I could have been the guy. And who knows. But I think that's looking back, I'm happy with the way it worked because it was just an incredible life experience for me to go through that I think has helped me more than just about anything that we could have went through.

And were you the same year? Yeah, exact same year. So that's interesting. So maybe let's get into your mindset a little bit. What was your train of thought knowing that he was going there? Was it something like you were just like, no, man, I want to, I want to fight the beast. I want to go after this. This is what I want.

I'm not going to let this determine me. I'm going to go after it. Because I think that says a lot about you because, you know, there is certainly strategy. Like when you're going to college and you're getting recruited, there's strategy. I mean, money, yes, but also like the education, how much am I going to play? Like, you know, what years this guy?

There's a lot that goes into that. So what was your mindset in, you know, choosing to go where he went? So when he committed, he committed after I did. when he committed, I got re-recruited by pretty much everyone who had already offered me a scholarship, called me back, saying, you don't want to go there. You're not going to beat him out. Yeah. Why would you do that? And I never even considered for a second not going there.

I've grown up in a competitive landscape with a world-class athlete of a younger brother. I'm not afraid to compete head-to-head with somebody, even though I knew that only one quarterback gets to play at a time. And so my, that's why the one thing I thought, though, was what can I do to differentiate from this guy who everyone says is much better than me? And that's why I decided I told my dad, I'm moving to Oxford the day after graduation, which we did on the Sunday. First workout was that next Monday, this terrible college house. Nobody, I tried to recruit some other incoming freshmen to come with me. And they all said, oh, I'll think about it. And nobody ever showed up.

The freshmen do that all the time now. but at the time nobody did that. And so it wasn't thinking, oh, no, I don't think I could win the job. It went into, okay, how am I going to do this? My only way that I've had success previous to that was I just try to outwork people. And so I thought I will take the same approach to this. And I mean, maybe it delayed him earning the job an extra year or to the Thursday before the first game or I don't know. but I like that I made it difficult on the coaches after spring ball.

Normally you name a starter. Coaches did not name a starter after spring practice. And that could have been strategic on their part because if they would have named him the starter, they might have been worried I would have transferred. I don't know. But either way, I did not ever think for a second to go somewhere else. And part of it was to my goals, Charlie, were to go to the NFL. And I felt, of all the schools recruited me, that Miami had the best coaching staff to put

a quarterback in the position to go to the NFL. That was my singular focus. And so, like I said, that turned out to be correct. And it just so happened that it was Ben. And he got drafted in the top 10 to the Steelers and the rest is history. But that was really my reasoning for going there. And I said, hey, I'm going to beat this guy out and I'm going to have a good career. And then I'm going to go to the NFL.

And pretty much none of that happened. But that was my mindset going in. And I don't, I can't say that I would change that because that's how that's how I truly, truly believe at that age. And I, I love it, man. I love it. I, I, I, the, the attitude like that, that's why I love fighting. I actually hate fighting, but I love fighting.

So I just love the, the idea of this is what it was like for me. I was teaching Spanish. I thought, okay, I don't want to do this. I want to do something. What can I do? There's a thing called fighting. My buddies are doing it. I hate fighting.

Okay, let's fight. It was like, it was just like, let's okay. So, but I love in the, as you're talking, telling your story, I'm thinking myself, yes, that's what I'm talking about. Yes, it's like Rocky and the Rush and it's fighting Apollo. It's going after it. And then on the other side of it, I think that a ginormous part of the moral of the story is you're still going, right?

You didn't do all that stuff. I say all the time, at this point, I don't know if I'd want to still be fighting, but for a long time I would say, yeah, if I could, I'd still be fighting. But now it's like, I really kind of enjoy what I'm doing now. I think I'm happier right now than I would be over there. So the moral is you're still going and you're making it work. I actually just started a book today about the Native Americans. It's called The Wisdom of the Native Americans.

And it said something about not fighting. It was talking about nature and the power of nature. And it said not fighting nature, but kind of making with what nature gives to you the best out of it. And that's what you're saying. You're fascinating me with your stories. So it's like, it's just really neat to see that, that just keep going. I don't know if you've read Shoe Dog by Phil Knight. Oh, I love that book.

Yeah, but I mean, like, just keep going. Don't stop. I must tell myself that a thousand times, a thousand times a day. Right. Because like every, we're going to have tough days. We all do. And that's the thing, that's the thing to remember during those tough moments is Allison Levine, she climbed Mount Everest a few times.

I remember she told me that. She said it's just about taking the next step. She's tired. She's cold. The conditions are terrible around her. And she's like, next step, next step, next step. And I think the same thing, maybe it's a slow day or I'm tired or something fell through that I thought was going to be a good gig or whatever may happen. And it's like, don't stew in that.

Don't sit in that. You can remember it and think about it. And then it's saying, okay, it's time to get back. to work. It's time to go and keep moving forward as opposed to, like I said, the people who feel sorry for themselves or worse, the ones who just quit because it's too hard. I don't just think I'm thinking of all this, man. I have like chill, smiles. This is a really fun conversation. This is cool. This is very cool, man. I love your sport, by the way. When you, when you reached out originally, I looked, looked it up and thought, this is going to be really fun.

I appreciate it. It is a nice, of, I mean, you're the same way. I equate the last guy, so episode of mine that's coming out tomorrow, it's with a Marine Recon and a Navy CEO who works with Eschlon Front, Jocco's team and everything. But it's such a nice blend. Like, I equate you guys to like my buddies, like my buddies. Like I don't know you at all. I don't, you know, we just met today.

But it's like I could picture going to the gym, working out, you know, hitting it hard in the gym and then like going and sitting and just having a fun conversation and like I do with my buddies. So anytime I get an opportunity to do that with someone like yourself, it's just, to me, it's like the coolest thing in the world. And I cross my fingers that this keeps being my job. It's pretty cool, is it? Because I think that's the neat thing about doing this.

So when you're part of your work is having conversations with growth-oriented types of people, is that pretty much every day you have something to be really excited about when you're having when you have one of these recordings booked and then you learn so much and then you develop a relationship where it's not doesn't end with this one conversation because I could see it a month from now you shoot me a note and say did you read this or do you see this did you hear this or I saw this and thought of you um those types of things that's one of the neatest things that's happened for my show of having more than 265 of these conversations over the last four years is those moments happening on a regular basis with previous to that I had never

talk to the person. I didn't know the person. And now you become friends with those types of people. And that's how I think we become, we can put this into warp speed from a learning perspective. And that's a more enjoyable way to live in my opinion. It's absolutely fascinating. And I mean, it's just an instant upper. You know, it's an instant upper that I'm leaving this conversation. And that that's obviously the hope that the listeners leave this conversation and feel the exact same way and then can do that much more with whatever they're doing. Yep. I want it. So let's kind of tie the end of your athletic career and then into your show.

And the learning leader show and you've interviewed a hundred. I think he said 200 or so of like some really like smart, important, successful people. So let's go from when did you know you were done competing? And then how did that lead into doing what you're doing with the show and speaking? football-wise, I probably could have kept playing arena football, but I saw that it was not going to lead to the Kurt Warner story, like all of us quarterbacks in the Arena Football League want. And really, he's the main one who's made that happen where he went from Arena League,

like basically minor league baseball who gets called up and they become a Hall of Famer. After I did it for a couple years, I realized that that's probably not going to happen. I'm not getting looks. It was going well. I had fun. It was great experiences. So at that point, it's time to get a job. And one of I had, was fortunate, I have a few connections made for me for me by

friends of friends. And I got a job in the profession of selling and sales. And sales is, I think, a good place for an athlete like myself because in the environment I went into, it was extremely competitive. The people that I studied who seemed to do the best were the ones who were willing to work the hardest. And so my first day, I remember I met with the VP of Sales Rex Kaza, one of my good friend to this day. I just saw him on Father's Day and I said, who's the best? Who was the best? And he

walked me down to this guy's cubicle who was the number one guy for years. And I said, do you mind if I just shadow you? And that's what I did. And then after we became closer, I said, hey, can we come in on the weekends and write scripts and get emails prepared and get my list, call list ready? And let me do mock calls so you can see how I sound. and he had desires to be a leader himself. So he had some skin in that game to say that he was a mentor for me. And that's what I did. And so my approach was the exact same to how when I found out I was competing against Ben Rothsberger,

let me move, doctor, let me try to outwork him. I did the same thing in selling. And the result was actually better in the selling world than it was competing against Ben, where I became, did well and then got promoted. And after a few years, become a manager and then became a director. and ultimately a VP of sales. And along the way, though, I did feel like I had a yearning to learn more. I got my MBA and I considered getting a PhD in some form of communication or leadership.

But there wasn't anything that I loved. So I thought, is there a way I could create my own leadership PhD program? And that's what the Learning Leadership Show ended up being is like, let me find the most thoughtful, interesting, smartest, leaders in the world and ask to talk to them and then record it and share it with other people so that they could learn along with me. And that's ultimately what the show has become. And now that's what I do full time is speak on the podcast, keynotes outside of that. And then some I have leadership circles. I have a few other regular engagements I do. And it's incredible that

that's what I get to do now all day, every day. It is, man. And I'm I'm building what you've built and it's it's so inspiring to me like inspiration is huge for me i i i won't say i need to because i you know i'll make it happen no matter what but but hearing people like you chalk and tell me what it takes really is fuel for my fire and you know it's it's fascinating i'm listening to you tell and i'm thinking like well that's exactly where i'm heading that's exactly where i want to go and it is kind of a system you know it's a system if i just keep doing what i'm doing then it'll happen eventually. With your show, like you said you wanted to create your own kind of MBA and leadership,

I have a note written here because there's, I read a lot of books. So my show is a combination of the books I read and the conversations I have. And I thought before I get to that, I want to point out also, I think it's really neat because I've tried to figure out how to say this best, but I read it on your website, that you're a person who's been there and done that, but you're also a person who's, who's learned from a lot of other people who have been there and done that. And I think like when you're able to bring that to the table, it's something really special.

And I really, I don't know if I even how to properly say, but I just really enjoyed reading that on your website because it was like, yeah, that's the best way to do it, what he's experienced and then when he's learned from all these other hundreds of people. Yeah,

I think it's a combination of a few different states of mine, of one, and you learn, you're learning directly from people. Then I think you experiment slash do, meaning take action. So learn, experiment with action, and then the third part is teaching. And that's where you really reinforce what you've learned. So it's like I'm in a perpetual state of learning, experimenting, doing, teaching.

Learning, experiment, do, teach. And it goes round and round and round. I think that's the way that I've developed, reinforced my beliefs, have good conversations like this one consistently record with people who are smarter than me so that I can understand where they're coming from and how I can maybe take parts of what they've picked up and put it into my game and then and then teach others and that's that's that's that's what we do and I think that's for me a good cycle to regularly be in is learn do teach learn to teach and it's it's it's worked well but like anything else we have to be willing to

adapt to change to grow and that's also part of this process and with the people that that you've spoken with the experiences you've had so i read i read more books than conversations i have but you know there's certain things that stick with me you know it might not be the most profound thing but it's said in a way that sticks with me like i said that the phil knight book was a giant one with jocko in that team it's extreme ownership um with abry marcus that that's that I saw he was on your show as well, but, you know, the cold water thing, the cold water and the shower. Like, these things have changed my life. They changed the things I do and the way that I think. Are there any specifics? And you don't, if there's not, you don't have to, you know, search for him.

But that you think, yeah, that guy, that thing that person said changed my life from all of the conversations that you've had. Well, we could probably have it. This could be an hour long answer, but there's one small one that is that is very simple for all people to do and I would challenge people to do this. So I did this in my leadership circle. I have a group of 11 people, essentially a paid mastermind group, and we're doing this now, and we started about a month ago,

and it's, I think, been very positive. I spoke with John Kralik. John is not as famous as most of the people on my show. I mean that just the way it is, but I love this book, specifically focused on gratitude, and I mentioned earlier about saying thank you to your spouse when they do something nice

and how that's very easy to do, but you should do. But anyway, John wrote, he was in a depressive state things were going bad he's a lawyer it wasn't going well divorce a lot of a lot of negative things happening but he decided that he was going to write a thank you note every day for one year so 365 thank you notes and then he did and it changed this life because he lived in a constant state of gratitude of seeking out opportunities to say thank you of figuring out who can I write a note to today and and I think that changes your state of mind so

if there's one behavior that I have implemented that I think would be wise is to have, whether you get your own letterhead, you have the envelope, you write on the envelope, you get the stamps, whatever may be, but I have everyone in my circle doing it, I'm doing it as well, where we write thank you notes on a regular basis, you write their name on the, on the envelope, you stamp it and you put it in the mailbox and you get in the habit of saying thank you to somebody on a regular, not to be every day, but on a regular basis, that that small action will have a bigger impact on you than you imagine. And so I would encourage people to think of that.

And you'll end up finding people to think that you never would have thanked before. For example, maybe you write a thank you note to the person who coached your daughter's soccer team or to her teacher or to somebody who took you out to dinner. And normally you would text them or you would say thank you at dinner dinner. But now you're actually writing them a thank you. So these little things can make a big difference in your life and certainly of the lives of the people that you think about writing to. So I would challenge people to try that. Just do it for a week or two weeks and see how you feel at the end of it. And see how the people that you're writing to feel as well.

Yeah, that is fascinating. And I wrote it down. So I'm not going to forget it, but I wrote it down extra. So I didn't forget it, which actually ties into the writing down. But that is a really fascinating thing. And as you were talking, I was thinking like, oh, yeah, I can write to that person. I could write to that person. So it really does create this, you know, open state of gratitude and the idea of writing.

And so this is a little fun story that ties in line with what you said. But listeners, I would suggest this act as well. So, Ryan, you had alluded to earlier about, you know, reaching out to potential guests on the show and, you know, how long it takes or how hard it takes. And sometimes you just luck out. Sometimes you don't, you know, it's just the way it is. I read the book, the Ben and Jerry's book, The Inside Scoop by a guy named Chico Lager. And Chico was the third guy. So originally there was Ben and Jerry.

And then Chico was brought in as a CEO. And I read this book with Ben and Jerry's. And I was just fascinated. Like I just wanted to tell this guy, your book was awesome. I loved it. It changed my life. I just felt so much for this book. And I couldn't find him anywhere online.

So I ended up finding his mailing address right. writing him a letter and he got the letter and thought, who is this guy writing me a letter? And then responded and I had him on my show and it was tremendous. Oh, man. I love that story. That is so, that's so cool. It was fun, man. And I just read Brian Grazer, who's a TV and movie producer.

I thought, I want to talk to the, yeah. Incredible book. It's funny. We have some of the same people on our mind. There's some cool Ryan Grazer stories out there and that book's awesome. Yeah. And I'm saying it now. I'm going to write him a letter.

So hopefully someday it lands on his desk. So there's two actions, listeners, if you haven't taken any yet, writing the thank you notes, either one a day, one a week, you know, one, you know, whatever. And then also writing a letter, take a letter a week and write it to someone that, you know, because it's, you're a dreamer, I'm a dreamer, you're a doer, I'm a doer. So you've got to put some, I mean, what you were saying as being a leader in the first place, I guess to kind of wrap up this idea of leadership, you've got to do. There's got to be actions. There's got to be, you know, actions and stuff behind those words.

So maybe that's the actions you can take people. Thank you notes and old letters to people you aspire to talk to. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like you said, it's not, we know what's going to happen if you don't do it. It sounds simple, but the doing part is critical. And it's making sure that that's part of your game plan is the physical action of executing. Well, this has been tremendous, man, and I want to keep to the hour. I feel like I could keep talking to you, but, you know, I feel like we should wrap up. I want to kind of respect your time. And if we're to have a part two, then someday we'll have a part two. But I sincerely appreciate, man. This was, I, I like to, I purposely limit myself to the research I do prior to these conversations because I'm a naturally curious person. And I want it to just my mind and my brain to take it. a la the five love languages. I definitely did not plan that that into the conversation. That's great. I appreciate it because I can tell when you approach it with a curious mindset,

then this type of conversation happens where it was natural flowing like it would be if we were just heading out to lunch and each other. And that's really cool. So, you know, let the listeners know where, you know, how they can find your show on iTunes or across the board there. And then your website, your mastermind, whatever. you got cooking social media yeah learning leader.com is really a home base for everything so learning leader dot com you'll find it and twitter i'm at ryanhawk 12 Ryan hawk 1 too so you can

um I'm on there a lot it's my it's a good way for me to aggregate news and and follow people that I inspire me so I engage there as well very cool listeners Ryan hawk thank you very much man thanks man it was great Charlie