The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 272: Scott Galloway - The Algebra Of Happiness

Starting point is 00:00:00 The people that I have found have been the most effective leaders and the best managers. I mentioned my creative director. She has a habit of moving her chair next to going to whoever is doing. I expect everyone to come to me because I'm so awesome sitting in my corner. They all come to me. Catherine, my creative director, is probably the best manager in our firm, takes her chair, goes over to their desk, sits down with them, and reviews the deck with them, and says, you know, this is a better way of saying it.

Starting point is 00:00:27 Why don't you try it this way? and lets them do it. And you can just tell, she walks away from them, and they're better what they do. And they're like, okay, because this person has taken vested interest in my work, it's not only better for the company today, but I'm better.

Starting point is 00:00:42 I have a stronger skill set, a better currency in the marketplace. And I think that type of leadership, the sort of player coach, as opposed to the visionary, is a better form of leadership. This episode is brought to by Gusto. Gusto is making payroll, benefits,

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Starting point is 00:02:02 I am Ryan Hawk. Thanks so much for being here. It is Mindful Monday. Text learners to 44222 in order to join thousands of other fellow learning leaders from all over the world. Text learners to 44222. Now, on tonight's featured leaders with the great Scott Galloway, professor of marketing at NYU, where he teaches MBA students, brand strategy and digital marketing, named one of the world's 50 best best. business school professors. He's founded multiple firms, including L2, a subscription business intelligence

Starting point is 00:02:39 firm, which recently sold to Gartner. He's also a New York Times bestselling author of a book titled The Four, The Hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google. This guy is remarkable. Also uses some colorful language, just a quick warning for those of you who don't like that. All right. A few of the topics we got into the algebra of happiness. Scott shares the equation of a life well lived, then how to be remarkable at work. And he shares some very useful career advice, followed by why teaching is the best method for learning. This one's so good with Scott Galloway. All right, Professor Scott Galloway, welcome to the Learning Leader Show.

Starting point is 00:03:27 Thanks, Ryan. I'm a big fan of your work. I know you know that. I've told you both your writing and certainly the video I've learned a lot from you. I am very curious to get us going here, though, Scott. You have spent a great deal of your life around leaders who have sustained excellence. You're also a builder of companies that have been extremely successful. So I'm curious from your perspective, what do you found to be the common traits and or themes of those people who sustain excellence? Sure. So, you know, I knew you were going to ask that, and it's the questions you know are coming,

Starting point is 00:04:09 that are the hardest. So first off, a few attributes. One is, and this is redundant to your question, is excellence. It has to be somebody who's great at something. They're either, they were either the best salesperson in their company, the best engineer. What I'll call professional managers can get to a certain point, but to be a true leader of an organization, you have to have demonstrated incredible excellence in a specific domain. Two, I think, great or very successful people show a tremendous amount of, you know, grit, willingness on a regular basis to roll up their sleeves and show that they're willing to do anything they would ask of anything else.

Starting point is 00:04:49 Whenever I start a company on a regular basis to kind of, you know, just to set a certain stamp DNA on the culture, I'll work all night. And some of it show. want the young people to see that I'm willing, you know, that I take this very seriously and I want to show a certain level of strength and grit around the company and imprint the DNA, especially in young companies. And then I think successful people in grade leaders hold people accountable. And that is that they, again, in a young company, people should be able to look left and right and say, I get it. I get why this person is here. And when people don't perform, I think you have

Starting point is 00:05:27 to inform them they're not performing. And if they don't continue to perform, I think he's shown them the door. And it's not aspirational and it's terrible and it rocks people's lives. But I think everyone talks about hiring and strategic hiring and creating a great culture. I think strategic firing is very important as well. So I would say excellence, grid, holding people accountable, sustain kind of something I'm working on a lot more as I get older as a manager as empathy. And that is as a younger manager, I assumed everybody felt the same way as I did and that they showed it to work because they wanted to be. They wanted to make a lot of money and generally just be awesome and how people think they were awesome.

Starting point is 00:06:05 And not everyone's like that. People have different priorities. So trying to understand what people are trying to achieve from work and give them a believable sense that you have a vested interest in helping them achieve their unique objectives and creates retention because the best companies have very high retention rates among their employees. So I'm personally working on what I'll refer to loosely as empathy. interesting your background is is i think unique in the fact that you're a builder of things and you're also a teacher how does that dynamic impact you as a leader that the fact that you're usually in building stages of whether it's company usually companies but at the same time you're teaching uh at NYU yeah i see myself or my identity and what i'll call my strength or

Starting point is 00:06:57 vitality during the day comes from teaching it's what i wanted to do my whole life it's the only thing I know I'll be doing the rest of my professional life. So when people see me on the street, I yell, hey, professor, and that's the title I want. I love teaching. It's just something I've always wanted to do. In terms of the crossover, the pollination, or the synergy, being in class, pursuing a domain and trying to understand it really well informs my work, and the work informs my teaching in class.

Starting point is 00:07:29 I teach it at the business school, and it's a place. where students are spending so much money that they want practical, applicable knowledge. And the majority of academics are totally focused on their domain and they might have some out of outside activity. I'm called a clinical professor, meaning I'm expected to have outside activity that I can bring into the class and inform their curriculum. So ideally the two are somewhat synergistic, but mostly it's, it wasn't meant to be a means of creating flywheel effect. professionally. I love to teach and starting companies and stuff. I enjoy that too, but I primarily do it so I can afford to live in Manhattan with a family. But teaching is my main gig. I think the two inform each other, but it wasn't anything strategic, quote unquote. I found, and this happened to me,

Starting point is 00:08:21 Scott, I'll be curious to get your thoughts. When I started about a year into this podcast, I started getting asked to speak a lot and get up on stage. And I remember the first few times, they'd say, we love your podcast. We want you to come kind of share that message. And I would say, well, what message? And what public speaking forced me to do was to document my belief system, to document my learnings. And so I would imagine, I've guest lectured a lot at universities.

Starting point is 00:08:50 And I would imagine that teaching has to help reinforce your beliefs or even force you to document what you believe in, what you think, what you've, learn because as the teacher, you've got to master that topic. So how was that impacted you you where it almost forces you to know it? You're absolutely right, Ryan. You have to develop a rap. And you have, I do a lot of public speaking as well. And I get three hours of practice every week. And I have an audience that is not only, you know, they're supportive and engaged, but they're demanding. They're spending a lot of money. I teach 160 kids on Monday nights. they're paying six or seven grand each so that's $1.2 million in tuition 12 nights it's

Starting point is 00:09:33 100 grand a night so I'm being paid 100 grand to teach for two hours and 40 minutes you can't phone it in you have to be prepare you have to have themes they have to be supported by research and at the end of the class the student has to think or the collectively the class has to think was that worth 100 grand and if they don't they inform the dean I mean the students have really changed over the last 20 years. They now see themselves not only as students, but as consumers. And you can understand why if we're going to charge them that kind of money and force them to borrow money to come show up. It can't just be a bunch of blather or some guy coming in talking about, you know, just how awesome this career has been. So you have to, you have to bring it. And the great

Starting point is 00:10:18 thing about that is it helps inform your speaking style, an ability to organize your thoughts. And you're just, you're, your practice, you're an athlete. And the reason why you guys train so hard in the weight room and the reason why you run two minute drills is at some point when you're in the game and it's two minutes, it's like, okay, I've been here, I got this. So teaching is a fantastic way to prep for either speaking or writing. And the top, I would argue that some of the best speakers on the speaking circuit tend to have an academic background because they just get a ton of training.

Starting point is 00:10:53 You got to get the reps. You got to get the reps. And I think teaching is a great opportunity to get the repetitions of getting up, having a point, understanding what you believe in delivering the message effectively. Agreed. And the other aspect of actually how I first became aware of you, in addition to your book before, which we're going to talk about in a little bit, are your videos. Two particular ones, and there is some carryover, but I want to dig into them because not only for how great the production value, I mean, that's all. But the content is what's really drew me in. You have these videos that you, as part of your company, that you release in a regular basis.

Starting point is 00:11:31 And you delivered one on career advice and another one on what we call the, or what you call the algebra of happiness. How, I'd be curious just a little inside baseball. How do you put these videos together? Do you write the entire scripts and then your team and you put it together? Or what's the process to do this before I dig into some of the actual content of this speeches? No, I'm standing on the shoulders of others. People think it's me in a kitchen with a hand-held camera, and then delighting is maybe my girlfriend or my wife holding up a flashlight.

Starting point is 00:12:06 There's a lot of thought in production that goes into these. So I have a couple analysts here at L2 that will come up with story ideas, 7 to 8 story ideas, myself and my creative director, a woman in Cassam Dillon, who is really the kind of driving force, these videos. She and I will review the story, pair it down to four or five, we'll go into the studio, we'll shoot four or five, that takes about a half an hour,

Starting point is 00:12:30 we're pretty efficient there. And then we kick out the one we don't like, and, you know, 60 to 70% of it is scripted, a bunch of facts or facttoids or data on a teleprompter, and then I sort of riff, and then I will kind of go off

Starting point is 00:12:46 script at least once or twice and rant a little bit and try and be authentic, and And to a certain extent, and I try to write this way, but it's harder because you have to read it again so you get more cowardly. But when I'm in my videos, I try to behave as if no one is watching and really be unfiltered and unpolished. And I think at the end of the day, I call it authenticity or raw or, you know, I'm profane, but it's genuine. I'm a profane person. And it's not the kind of behavior that's indicative of a professor.

Starting point is 00:13:20 It's not professional. it's not CNBC, but that is how I am. I use profanity a lot. And that seems to resonate strangely enough for when I think someone is, when I think, you know, Mark Zuckerberg is Putin's bitch. I'll say that.

Starting point is 00:13:36 And that stuff seems to resonate. But the production values, the scripting, the lighting, the studio, that stuff is hard. And I'm really fortunate. I have an outstanding creative team that makes me, you know, makes me look a lot better than I should.

Starting point is 00:13:50 or makes the video appear a lot more polished than I could ever do on my own. And the reason why you're doing a podcast, the fact that you've been able to become one of kind of the top podcast is super impressive because there's so much competition because, quite frankly, the barriers aren't that huge. Video is hard. I mean, it is really hard to do well. So, yeah, I have a team of probably six or eight of us. It's not full time.

Starting point is 00:14:15 This is something we just started doing on the side. And then when we started getting 10,000, 100,000, 500,000 million views, we said, well, this is worth putting some resources behind. Why do you, what do you, at the beginning of that part, you said you can sometimes feel like a coward so you have to act like nobody's watching. What do you, what do you mean, like, like how, why do you, why do you feel like a coward? Well, when I was writing before and I was saying that, I mean, the sense that gets most quoted in the book is I talk about Steve Jobs sort of being that Jesus Christ. of an information economy that we've decided he's the role model. And I, you know, I refer to him as the most famous dead be dead. And that, you know, I believe this.

Starting point is 00:14:58 I believe that the blue line path to a better world is more engaged father, is not a better fucking phone. And I say that exact sentence in the book to end one of the chapters. And I get a lot of criticism for that. And people get very upset and say that I'm making a personal attack on someone who's dead who's not around to defend themselves. But I genuinely believe that. I think this was not a decent person. I think it is the worship of Steve Jobs reflects that in many ways in our society, we've lost the script around no longer worshiping at the altar of character and kindness. We worship

Starting point is 00:15:33 at the altar of billionaire innovators and tech. And, you know, I say these things. I know I'm going to get in trouble that it's going to upset people, but I try to hold my feet to the, you know, to what I believe flame. I've achieved a point in my life where I have some economic security. I have some job security. I don't believe I'm going to be around forever. I'm a devout atheist and think that, you know, this is it, so to speak. So I try to be, I try to say exactly what I'm thinking, no adjectives, no embellishment,

Starting point is 00:16:08 and not be worried about the ramifications. And quite frankly, and sometimes that backfires on me. Occasion I say something that isn't provocative, it's just stupid and offensive, and it hits me back in the face. But I try to write and I try to go on these videos and say what I am thinking. I try not to be reckless. I try not to be mean. I have a code around personal attacks, and I do make some personal attacks, and that is I will never criticize anyone who's not more powerful than me, which is most of the world. Otherwise, you're just being a bully.

Starting point is 00:16:40 But I do believe it's important to hold famous people to account, the people, I admire most in history, whether it's Mother Teresa or Muhammad Ali, have one thing in common. That is they gave powerful people a hard time. So where's the coward part of that? Well, when you start, oftentimes when I read my own writing, I tone it down. Oh, okay. You know, when I produce a video and my investors get angry and say, how does that, you know, they make a reasonable point.

Starting point is 00:17:09 They say, how does, I fail to see how that adds value to our shareholder base, but they get very upset. So I take it out of my video. I'm a cat. You know, I got you. It's just easy to be, easy to be scared,

Starting point is 00:17:20 you know, easy to worry about getting in trouble, you know, worried about offending people. And that's how, and quite frankly, I don't want to, I don't want to,

Starting point is 00:17:29 I don't want to, you have a lot of young listeners. You're smart to be afraid when you're younger. You don't want, you don't want to offend your employer. You don't want to offend your colleagues. But people who have some success,

Starting point is 00:17:40 I think, have an obligation to speak their mind. And you don't need to mean, but yeah, is Elon Musk unhinged right now? Is he behaving irresponsibly? Is he playing with potential shareholder lawsuits so he can wave the middle finger at short sellers? Yeah, it's not, you know, it sucks to be a grownup and he is not acting like a grownup. Is he a genius? Yes, but he's behaving in my viewpoint irresponsibly. Does that mean he has a weak board that there's nobody on this board that has the balls to sit him down and say, no, you don't behave this

Starting point is 00:18:15 way. You don't tell analysts that are asking reasonable questions that they're asking boring, boneheaded questions. So, yeah, I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to be out there, if you will. Yeah, yeah, I got you. So let's dive into some of the contents. Let's start with the career advice, because this is, I just had two of these meetings yesterday with younger people. And I really try to give everything I've got when I have those meetings because I know when I was 21, I would have, I try to say what I think I needed to hear. Not that I would have listened, but at least, at least I'll give it a go. So you have a video about career advice. It's got about a million views on YouTube. And there's a few of them that I want to point out and then maybe you can expand

Starting point is 00:18:59 on them. So the second part, number two that you said is, and I'll remind you because I don't expect you to memorize all your stuff, is be remarkable. Basically, what two attributes can you you bring together that make you unique. And this may be think of Cal Newport and Steve Martin. Steve Martin was asked a question at, he was doing a speaking engagement. And someone said, you know, how do I get the right agent or who do I, what do I go talk to or what do I do so I can become famous or become great as an actor? And Steve said, well, forget all that.

Starting point is 00:19:28 You got to be so good they can't ignore you. And then Cal went and used that as the head of his book. And he wrote a fantastic book. And I talked to him about it. And you said, be remarkable, which I think are parallel. So what did you mean when you said what two attributes can bring you together that make you unique? So your listeners are disadvantaged versus you and me. And that is if we were outstanding at one thing, we could probably carve out a pretty good living.

Starting point is 00:19:53 And I feel as it because of mostly computing and the globalization and the erosion of trade barriers, you're now competing against kids from Mumbai and Cape Town and Seoul. So I would argue now you not only need to be strong on one thing, but you need the peanut butter and chocolate combination of being great at two things and being remarkable. So be the CFO who also has a sense, can also proof-read stuff and is great with grammar. But between the ages of 20 and 30, you have to find something that you're outstanding at. People will say follow your passion or find something you like. I think that's total bullshit.

Starting point is 00:20:35 anyone who tells you to follow your passion is already rich, find something you're great at, and then the accoutrements, the money, the recognition that come with being great at something, then you will become passionate about it because it's awesome to be great at something. And then try and complement it with a second thing, such that you're a unique individual who's not only the best of what you do, but you're the only one who does what you do. So, B, I have a great CFO here, and she not only established herself as a great numbers person, but she ended up being great on the HR side and being very good at hiring and firing.

Starting point is 00:21:09 And I thought, wow, I can find a great CFO, but it's not easy to find a great CFO who also has a feel for people. So the bar is raised every day for young people because they're increasingly competing against a larger and larger talent pool. So your 20s find that one thing you're great at and then become the only one that does what you do by being multi-dimensional. I'll have two things you're great at.

Starting point is 00:21:32 be remarkable. I remember, Scott, when I got my first promotion to management, I believe I was 26 or 27, and I prided myself on being an inspirational leader and giving speeches and motivating and inspiring people, right, young and not that smart. And I remember I was going over some reports or something and I called my dad and I said, I don't really understand these numbers and I don't really get it, but it doesn't really matter because that's not what I, I'm not good at that and I don't need do that and my dad like stop me in the middle of that conversation he might not remember this but i i have never forgotten it and he said never say that again you are running a business you're managing a team you must be great at the numbers you can't just be the guy who can give a speech you got to you got

Starting point is 00:22:22 you got to do both you have to if you want to be you know if you want to keep growing and be fantastic and be excellent on what you do so it's not don't ever say as the manager of a business that you're not a numbers guy or you're not good at it. If you're not, then become great at it. And I never forgot that advice. And I thought he's right. And I tried then to become an expert from a numbers perspective in addition to giving the talks. Yeah, your dad is right. That's great advice. And you were fortunate to get at a young age. When I think of, I played sports when I was younger like you're not nearly the same level. But there's sort of two different types of coach or leader or CEO. One is sort of the visionary,

Starting point is 00:23:01 who at halftime gives an amazing talk and calls on personal or religious metaphors or war metaphors and just inspires people and they run out onto the field or they get back to work and they feel like they're part of something bigger and they work really hard. And then there's sort of the player coach

Starting point is 00:23:18 or the CEO who pulls his or her chair up to next to a colleague and shows them how to do something and teaches them how to do it and just kind of in it with them and really upskills them or stays after practice and says this is how you, this is how you increase your free throws and literally just sits with them and throws free throws.

Starting point is 00:23:40 I'm the quote unquote inspirational or motivational leader. And I find that there's a, the shelf life on that or the half life on that is much shorter. Because after a while, people start realizing you're a little bit full of shit. And that is you're kind of 51% or 49% substance and 49% charlatan, and trying to motivate people and get more out of them with inspiring talk. And it's easy after two or three years of hearing this and hearing the same stories for people to get a little bit jaded.

Starting point is 00:24:10 I'm not saying that's not important. But the people that I have found have been the most effective leaders and the best managers, I mentioned my creative director. She has a habit of moving her chair next to going to whoever is doing. I expect everyone to come to me, you know, because I'm so awesome sitting in my corner. They all come to me. Catherine, my creative director is probably the best manager in our firm, takes her chair, goes over to their desk, sits down with them and reviews the deck with them and says, you know, this is a better way of saying it. Why don't you try it this way and lets them do it? And you can just tell. She walks away from them and they're better at what they do.

Starting point is 00:24:47 And they're like, okay, because this person has taken vested interest in my work, it's not only better for the company today, but I'm better. I have a stronger skill set, I have better currency in the marketplace. And I think that type of leadership, the sort of player coach as opposed to the visionary, is a better form of leadership. And I try to surround myself with people like that because I find I generally don't have the discipline to sit down with somebody and take them through, spend two hours with them going through the presentation saying, this is what's good, this is what's bad. I'm trying to do more of that, but it takes real discipline and empathy. So the player coach versus sort of the visionary coach. I like it. I think of the, the, sometimes there are actual guys who are current players who have that, that coaching ability as well that I play with in sports that I think are, have been more impactful on me than maybe any coach.

Starting point is 00:25:38 Okay. Some other career, career advice. You've already talked about the passion. One of the hot topics, I think that maybe this is, this is an area that I'll be curious to hear how people respond when we talk about it. But you talk about the myth of balance. work life balance is a phrase that a lot of people, it's in the news, it's popular. What do you think about work life balance? Well, and you notice, I think it's a myth.

Starting point is 00:26:07 And you have to decide early on, most of the kids I talk to, and I spend a lot of time now with my friends kids who are now college age or just coming out of college. You ask them, where do you expect to be in terms of income earning? Do you expect to mean the bottom half? No one ever says, yeah, I think I'm going to be in the bottom half. Do you expect to be in the top 10%? Almost everybody says the top 10%. And then a pretty healthy minority expect or strive to be in the top 1%.

Starting point is 00:26:35 So if you expect to be in the top 10% of income earners in the U.S., which I think is probably, I don't know, six figures in above, or you want to be in the top 1%, which means you're making kind of half a million and above, I don't know anyone who's able to achieve that without working their ass off. And I'm not saying bursts of energy. I'm talking 10 or 20 years. And it's not inspiring. It's not fun.

Starting point is 00:27:00 It doesn't make for a good graduation speech. But I think nearly every successful person I know did pretty much nothing but work for 10 or 20 years. And this is pulse marketing. But from the age of 25, from when I entered business school and I got my act together, until about the age of 40, I had little else in my life than work. And by the way, I'm not saying that's the right way to go. I'm saying if you expect to be in the top 1% economically, there's a real sacrifice. And all of us know somebody who has great relationships, does Pilates every day, has a food blog and volunteers at the ASPCA, and manages to make a lot of money, assume you are not that person. And that if you want to be in the top decile or the top 1%, that you are going to have to work insanely hard for an extended period of time.

Starting point is 00:27:50 It is very competitive out there. Now, having said that, I'm not saying that's the right way for everybody. Some people would rather, you know, kind of work to live as opposed to live to work. And it sounds crass to say from a very young age, I grew up without much money. And so at a fairly young age, I decided money was very important to me. And I was willing, you know, I learned early on that I was talented. Unless you're crazy genius and some, there are some crazy geniuses out there, being, you know, being talented is not enough. You are going to have to work very, very hard.

Starting point is 00:28:23 So when I meet kids and they talk about balance, the first thing I said, that's a myth. So if you want to move to a low-cost neighborhood and you want to work only 40 or 50 hours a week, fine. But if you want to be in New York, you want to be in San Francisco, you want to make six figures at some point in your 20s. You want to make more than that in your 30s. You want to have economic security and the things that provides. Get ready to work your ass off. I have a lot of balance now in my life because I had very little when I was in. young. So I'm not arguing, I'm not debating it's a tradeoff, but you need to be mindful of the

Starting point is 00:28:56 tradeoff and have a sober conversation with yourself about what you're willing to do. Did the, did the money bring you happiness? Yes. And again, it did bring a divorce though. It did. Yeah. Okay. Okay. It did. So the research on money largely impacts, uh, correlates to me. And that is there, there is a correlation between money and happiness, and that is once you get to a point of economic security, meaning you can have a nice place to live, take care of your kids, not worry about a health crisis bankrupting you, there is a big correlation between money and happiness once you get to a certain point. And once I had that, you know, I was happier.

Starting point is 00:29:37 So there is a correlation. What the studies show, though, is much beyond that, there is no correlation. Now, you don't get less happy with more money, that the notion that, the notion that, the notion the billionaires are less happy is also a mess. But once you hit a certain level, call it in the majority of America, 70 to 100 grand a year, where you can have a decent life, put your kids through school and probably need more than that now. You're in Manhattan?

Starting point is 00:30:01 That number's more like $300,000 a year. So a lot of it's where you live. So getting to a point of economic security for me did make me happy. I could sleep better. I felt like a better person. I felt more like a good head of household that made me feel more masculine. But what you also have to keep in mind is once you hit economic security, which isn't easy, you know, there's a difference. Money is a means to an end.

Starting point is 00:30:27 And the end is deep, meaningful relationships with your family, with your friends, you know, hopefully helping others being a good citizen. And what's hard is you're running so hard on the hamster wheel and you're getting so much reward and accruagement, the accruements of having some economic security that you forget to get off the wheel. And even though you may have enough, you become totally absorbed in work and your own professional identity. And you wake up and your kids are gone. And that's happened to a lot of my friends. So keep in mind, work and money is a great thing. And work your ass off and get to economic security, but never lose the script. It's a means to an end.

Starting point is 00:31:06 And the ends as deep, meaningful relationships. And that's the key to happiness. The Harvard Grand Study that tracked 400 men from the age of 18 until they passed away. They had to swap out lead researchers because they died over. 70 years. The full, the largest study on male happiness and it tells you something that they just did it on males. They didn't, they didn't do it on women. But the full, the distillation of the results from that study is really wonderful. And it says that happiness is love full stop. And that is at work, do you have colleagues that you admire and respect and do you feel admired and respected?

Starting point is 00:31:39 Among your friends, do you get a sense of joy and collegiality and do you give them a sense of joy and collegiality. And with your family, do you feel loved and supported? And do they feel supported and loved with you? Once you got to a certain level of economic security, those three things were the delta in someone being somewhat happy and very happy. Love full stop in all parts your life. I love that aspect of it. A few other parts that we'll get to before mentioned before. The algebra of happiness, because there is some carrier between your advice and the algebra of happiness since you brought up what happiness is all about. Sweating versus watching. I found this interesting.

Starting point is 00:32:18 You know, we already talked about, I've played sports my whole life. I still do and work out every day. And you're pretty jacked yourself when I see the video, especially with your shirt off. It's funny. But that, it made me think about, okay, who are all the leaders that I've spoken to? And a lot of them, and I don't know, this might be controversial. I don't think it should be. But a lot of them are in really good shape.

Starting point is 00:32:41 I mean, physical, good shape. and you pointed that out as well, sweating versus watching, meaning don't sit on your couch and watch people do stuff, go out and sweat, do work. 100%. And I think that the percentage of time and the amount of time, the ratio of time you spend sweating to watching other people sweat is a forward-looking indicator of your success. Yeah. So a guy like you that played sports and works out every day, you're going to have productive relationships, you're going to be less prone to dementia, you're going to be less prone to depression, you're going to have a broader set. selection set of mates because you look good, you're going to be more, you know, sexually active and healthy. There's just more things. There's so many wonderful things. They're finding right now that the only thing close to a youth serum is exercise. It's not eating right. You know, they like

Starting point is 00:33:30 to say it's happiness. People who are happy and loved have more fulfilling lives, but they don't live any longer. Really, the only youth serum they're finding is, in fact, exercise is sweating. And show me a guy who spends all Sunday watching football and then golfs all days, you know, watches golf on Saturday, and I'll show you a guy that's going to have failed relationships. I think televised sports are a certain level of alcohol. And that is they should be enjoyed in moderation and always in the company of others. And show me someone who does soul cycle three times a week and CrossFit, sweats a lot, and then occasionally really enjoy spectator sports with friends and family. And I'll show you someone that has a productive life. On a very basic level, I think you want to be able to walk into any

Starting point is 00:34:12 meaning and assume that shit's going to get real and you need to do one or two things. And that is either kill and eat everybody or run, outrun someone's able to do one of those two things. Run faster than anybody or kill them all. In my sense is that means you either have to be in great cardio shape or really strong. And that confidence, and I'm not suggesting anyone do either of these things, but that confidence is very primal and being in good shape. And I'm not talking about being skinny if you're a woman.

Starting point is 00:34:41 I'm not talking about necessarily being jacked if you're a dude. I'm talking about being a stronger version of yourself, a more fit version of yourself. And if you don't do it in your 20s, it gets really, really hard because you start working, you get into your 30s and your 40s, and young people don't, you just can't, it's impossible to realize this. But your cells begin dying and your ability to maintain muscle mass or get maximum kind of cardio shape gets harder and harder. So get to the best shape you can right now in your 20s. You'll be happier, better mates, better for you, better for the planet. One more on algebra of happiness because top of mind for me.

Starting point is 00:35:21 I just got back from taking my wife and I took our daughters to Hilton Head for a week. Had a great house on the beach. It was incredible. And things versus experience is very real. And I think most people already know this. Now it's a part. It's executing on it. But buying things versus.

Starting point is 00:35:40 creating great experiences, especially with your family. I mean, it was so awesome. I mean, it was just so many great memories we built over the course that week in the ocean, in the pool, in the house, family movie night. I mean, everything, all the meals. And so you talk about things versus experiences. Yeah, again, there's a lot of great research on this. And that is that the fade, we overestimate the amount of joy, things will bring us,

Starting point is 00:36:03 and we underestimate the amount of happiness experiences will bring us. When I was a young man, I spent a disproportionate amount. on my disposable income on cars because I was trying to attract a maid and I thought it would make me happy driving a nice BMW or whatever. And what I spend a lot of money now on is vacations like you said with my family. And I take a ton of pictures now and that bad tourist with the camera hanging around his neck. It's just that there's a lot of research on this. You know, the headline is here is drive a Hyundai and take your girlfriend or your boyfriend to Africa.

Starting point is 00:36:39 Yep. Love it. One more part, because another part of your story, Scott, is your book, The Four. And I really encourage, people know the difference when I say somebody has written a book versus when I tell people to actually read the book. And this is one of those you should read this book. The Four, the hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google. What is the hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google?

Starting point is 00:37:04 Sure. Sure, so I think these firms are the most successful entities of their kind in history and that they have tapped into a very primal instinct, each of them, such that they can disarticulate who we are as animals and re-articulated us in a form of for-profit companies. And that in order to scale to more than 100 million consumers or 100 billion in shareholder value, you have to flip to a specific instinct. So in order, I think Google is our God and our need for a super being. Our competitive advantage of species is that we have a brain that is so big. were expelled from the body prematurely. And as frank and ask very complex questions, we can't answer them. Enter into that void of the unanswerable.

Starting point is 00:37:41 Our 3,500 super beings are gods competing to be the number one. And as we get more affluent and more educating, our reliance on a super being and our church attendance goes down, but we still have very robust questions. And enter into that void is our God, which is Google. And what is a prayer? A prayer is a query into the universe. Will my kid be all right? Now it's symptoms and treatment of croup into the Google.

Starting point is 00:38:04 dialogue box. Google sees everything. There's some sort of divine intervention. Very few people really understand how it responds to these queries, but you trust Google more than any physical entity in your life. If you don't think you trust Google more than anyone whether Google is near God, imagine your name and your face about every query you have typed into that box, and you're going to see pretty soon that Google knows when you're about to get engaged, Google knows when you're contemplating divorce, Google knows what sexual fetishes you have, Google knows what diseases you have. It knows what diseases or ailments your word you may have exposed yourself to.

Starting point is 00:38:37 Google knows the real you. Google is our modern man's God. Moving further down the torso, we not only need to be loved, but we need to love others. That's a basic instinct. One of the wonderful things about our species. And Facebook, mostly through imagery, is catalyzed and reinforced first and second order degree connections. I think Facebook, at least the promise that Facebook is that it foments and solidifies love.

Starting point is 00:38:59 going further down the torso, the number one ailment of the history of our species, our source of death has been starvation, and it is a terrible, long, and painful death. So it's built into us the notion of just simply put more. And open your closets, closets, your coverage, you have 10 to 100 X more stuff than you need. And you can rationally look at the number of suits and shirts you have and go, I really don't need this many. And the next thought is, yeah, but I'd sure like more. So more for less is the original business strategy, the economy that offers the best value proposition around more for less is the fastest growing economy that's China.

Starting point is 00:39:36 Typically the company that offers the most for less is the most valuable company in the world. And the one doing that right now, at least from a perception standpoint, is Amazon. So Amazon is our consumptive gut and puts to this need in this sphere for more, always more. And then finally, moving further down the torso, men have been taught for millions of years that our number one job is to survive, our second job. is to spread our seed to the four corners of the earth. And women have been taught that their number one job is to survive. And their second job is to catalyze the most opportunities to select the strongest, smartest and fastest seed.

Starting point is 00:40:08 And it's chocolate and peanut butter combination of seed trying to get anywhere, everywhere, and a much finer filter from women picking the strongest, smartest and fastest seed is the basis for evolutionary progress. It's the reason why you're taller than your parents. It's the reason why there's less infection every year among kids. It's the basis for our progress as a species and your ability to signal your worth as a mate that you have good genes is the key to margin in a rational decision making.

Starting point is 00:40:37 It's why men buy Ferraris that cost $400,000 that go 180 miles an hour in zones where they can never go faster than 65. It's the reason why women will continue to buy $400, ergonomically impossible monoloblonic shoes. The ultimate signal now of your worth as a mate is the Iowa. is the iPhone, and it's why they're able to get $1,000 for a product that costs $320. You want to appeal to the two organs that are most irrational, specifically the heart, love, and the genitals, sex. Anyone who hasn't made a mistake with their heart or their genitals hasn't lived life.

Starting point is 00:41:12 But as a result, Apple is able to produce double the profits this quarter than Amazon is produced in its entire history as a company. So we have God, we have love, we have consumption, and we have sex. Those are the four horsemen Apple, Amazon, Facebook, and Google. And combined, they have been able to create a market capitalization greater than the GDP, every country with the exception of Japan, Germany, the United States and China, because they've tapped into our very basic DNA and instinct. Man, do you have those notes close by or are that just in your head?

Starting point is 00:41:44 Again, it's the teaching thing. It's almost like a rap at this point. Just press play. I know you've done it. a lot, but man, that was great. No, and I think for more details on that, that's why I would encourage people, that's a, that's like the, the, you're the textbook for all of us who are going to write books or have written books to say, how do you give the, the killer overview that will give you enough to make you interested, but not, not too much to where

Starting point is 00:42:12 you don't need to read the book. That was it, man. Like, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, press play on that part of it to say, I need to figure out how Scott Galloway talks about the four and that's, that's it, man. So, um, Hey, I seriously really appreciate you investing your time with me here, Scott, to be a part of my show. You certainly delivered high expectations and you still kill. So I really appreciate it, man. Thanks, Joanna. Congrats on the show.

Starting point is 00:42:37 Thank you. Where would you send my listeners to learn more about you online? Thanks for asking. So I'm Prof Galloway on Twitter. And if you want to check out our weekly video series, Winners and Losers, it's on YouTube. Yeah, and you have this deadpan, Matter of fact, style. on these videos. Really funny, really smart. A lot of intellectual wattage there. You can tell, and they're useful. I've actually put them, the algebra of happiness and your career advice

Starting point is 00:43:03 in my Mindful Monday emails, the emails I sent out every Monday multiple times. So it's really helpful in addition to the book. So thanks again, man, for being here. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Ryan. All right. Wow, that one was so good. I really enjoyed talking with Scott. appreciate his candor, his honesty, how authentic he is in his messaging. I enjoyed that one. We talked for quite a bit before as well as after the official recording, and he's a truly a kind and honest person, and I really enjoy that. And somebody, if you got use out of this episode, I would love it.

Starting point is 00:43:44 If you would write a review, subscribe, and rate the show in iTunes Apple Podcasts, write a thoughtful review, rate the show, hopefully five stars, and subscribe in iTunes, Apple Podcasts. It really helps spread the message and continues to give me the opportunity to do this on a full-time basis, which I love so much. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this. I really appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:44:05 I love it. All right, see you next week. Can't wait. This episode is brought to you by Gusto. Gusto is making payroll, benefits, and HR easy for small businesses. Modern technology does the heavy lifting, so it's easy to get things right. PCMag and fit small business have called Gusto

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The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 272: Scott Galloway - The Algebra Of Happiness

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