The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 285: Scott Gerber - Stop Networking And Start Building Relationships That Matter

Episode Date: November 26, 2018

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk Episode #285: Scott Gerber - Stop Networking And Start Building Relationships That Matter Show Notes: Commonalities of sustaining excellence: Those who surround themselves with people smarter than them Empathetic Self-aware -- And an ability to understand others "We are losing connection for connectivity." How to become a super-connector? "Curiosity leads to everything." -- Always be questioning... "Learning is the defining quality of all of it." How to get to the core of person to better understand where they come from and their motivations... "The Road Less Traveled" -- Constantly revise our maps of reality "The Big Short" - "It's what you think you know that's not true that gets you in trouble." How to answer the "What do you do?" question -- Scott - "Try to live life purposefully" His nickname -- "The Pandora of Gen-Y networking" "Social Capital is the most important currency that we have. I'm a curator of people." "There is so much power to bringing amazing people together." Why it's bad to ask, "How can I help you?" "Marketers fundamentally f'd up this conversation." -- "It's become too formulaic as the next step.  Instead, you should know how you can help and help.  It's a bad question because it shows your thoughtless and it's part of a script. Don't do that." Be exceptional at making introductions -- Does it provide mutual value? When you become proficient at it, take it a step further... Film a short video to make the intro. Get creative. The gray zones -- Always ask "why?" "Real relationships take real time" How to create remarkable experiences: Get great people in the room -- carefully curate the guest list Build trust Exceptional atmosphere/environment Be very thoughtful about every tiny detail The YEC summit in Eden, Utah Create something remarkable to ensure people and things you bring together click. Humanize people that run the community -- Ex: The execs serve dinner to the guests, find common touch points "Get the intros right! Lift your guests up, brag about them in front of their peers." Being a connector vs being connected -- The tools How to build consistent referrals? Create events where people want to bring a guest who is not a current client but could be.  The event must be exceptional.  Invest heavily in this. Why joining The Learning Leader Circle is a good idea Use the "Get To Know You Document"

Social capital is the most important currency that you have because it is the only thing that will be with you from the beginning and all the way to the end. Consistently, whether you're in your up phase, in your down phase, in your blah phase, you're happy, you're sad, you're depressed, you're a billionaire. The people you surround yourself with define who you are and what you want to aspire to be. They're the ones that push you. They're the ones that help you to achieve greatness or to overcome hardship. This episode is brought to you by another one of my favorite companies. It's OGO. I am a big fan of the leadership team at OGO.

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That's O-G-I-O-O-G-O-com. Use promo code Hawk to save 20% on OGO.com. Welcome. to the Learning Leaders Show. I am Ryan Hawk. Thanks so much for being here. It is Mindful Monday if you would like to join thousands of other fellow

learning leaders who are part of our community receiving private event updates, Q&A's, giveaways, some other cool things we have on the horizon. Text learners to 44222. Now, Onad I's featured leader

of the great Scott Gerber, CEO of the community company. Leads over 100 people at that company. Also the founder of YEC, Young Entrepreneurs Council, and also the founder of Forbes councils, a collective of invitation-only organizations for world-class executives, best-selling author of Super Connector, Stop Networking and Start Building Business Relationships That Matter.

Few of the topics we got into. The difference between being connected versus being a connector. Then why asking, how can I help? is the worst question to pose to someone, then the proper way to make introductions, as well as how to build consistent referrals. So good with Scott Gerber.

All right, Scott, so good to have you here on The Learning Leader Show. Welcome. Thanks so much for having me. We have a lot of mutual friends, so it's cool that I'm not surprising, given that you are a super connector, which is a phrase that will come up here a few times, I would imagine during this conversation.

But I'm curious, Scott, you've spent a great portion of your life around really impressive leaders who have sustained excellence. And sustaining excellence is a phrase that I love and use on a regular basis. So I'm curious from your perspective, if you think about the people that you've been around who have sustained excellence, what are some of the common characteristics they all seem to share? No, absolutely. Well, first and foremost, they're conveners. They're people that do not believe they are the best at what they do or who they are is not any better than anyone else, but rather they are conveners of fellow leaders or people that can help them to succeed as a collective.

I think that's the thing I've seen most often are that tribal instinct rather than the go-and-alone instinct is always better as it pertains to executive leadership, entrepreneurial leadership, whether you're just getting started in business or in your career. you know, those conveners, those curators, I think is certainly one way to look at it. I think another is empathetic and very self-aware. I think a lot of people that are not those two things can never quite figure out why they either don't get the support they're looking for or the camaraderie they're looking for or the unified vision into execution roadmap they're looking for. And a lot of sometimes it's simply because they are not self-aware about themselves, their actions, how they are perceived by others, or frankly, they don't have the confidence in themselves to be able to work on themselves in their weak spots or fill those weak spots with the strengths of

others. And from an empathy point of view, you know, I'm just the kind of person that if you don't understand what it is to be human and you can't relate to other humans or you simply put other humans behind your interests, your needs, your goals, I think that that is another area where leaders fail. And it's because especially today in the technology, social media, you know, hit these two buttons, tell the world something on your Twitter feed, right? We are losing the idea of building a connection in exchange for connectivity. And I think that that is becoming a really big fault of leaders, especially in the age where you match that technology, social media, with the idea of personal brand.

That, you know, it's, you know, the Gary Vaynerchukization, if you will, of that, which Gary's great at what he does. It makes sense for what he does. But I think many people are now leading through the public persona and not leading through their truest form of self, because they don't understand that people like Gary and others have not only a business reason or a personal reason to do so to be raw like that. But that's the character, Gary V, so to speak, right? That is very much him and his personality, but as someone who leads a company at the size and level he leads, he is very much who he is, but he is able to convene respect and convene the right people because of him being a true leader.

And this just happens to be the sort of output as a result of the things you don't see. So I think that's probably some of the keys, I would say. So self-awareness and empathy are really interesting. and certainly agree. Curious Scott, though, one of the things, and you could probably guess this by the title of my show, one of the things that I always like to ask, especially when it's an interesting topic, is can that be developed? And I obviously, you could probably guess what I think, but I think the follow-up to can it be developed, which is almost always yes, is how.

So specifically when it comes to empathy, there's probably a leader or two. two in everyone's mind right now that they're thinking of perhaps it was a boss or even a political leader or whatever it may be that lacks empathy and lacks self-awareness. And so, and one of the things that those types you probably don't do is listen to a podcast like this because they've already figured everything out. They're already the smartest person in every room they go in, right? At least in their mind. So how does one develop self-awareness and empathy?

So I am going to put this in a nice, neat bow for you, right? And that is you ask yourself one question. Are you curious? I think the reality is if you really boil down where you need to fix yourself and prove yourself, work with others, don't work with others, your skill sets are problematic here, strong here, it all comes down to, are you curious as a human being to learn why, how, what, when, about everything and anything. And to always be questioning yourself, others around you, the information you're given, because, you know, the simple question is, are you empathetic? Yes or no?

Are you someone who likes to convene other people? Are you an introvert or an extrovert? These are curiosity factors that also, by the way, lead to better conversations with people as a curious person, right? And so, you know, obviously playing on the pun of, yes, obviously, I understand the name of your podcast. I think learning is certainly the defining factor of all of it. Because, you know, you can have people that think they are because they've never asked themselves or others if they were. So I think people miss that fundamental simple step, which I'm sure some of your listeners now are going to be saying like, oh, duh, Scott. What an obvious tip, right?

And yet I would say and question people to say, yeah, it sounds obvious. to you if you've done it, but you would be blown away how many people haven't. And so I think that the reality is, if I was to sort of take your question and then take it to the next logical progression, it's, you know, if you're a leader, how do you deal with individuals who are not curious or have not discovered they're not curious or have not asked themselves if they're curious yet? Because there are clear things that are prohibiting them from reaching excellence from performing tasks at maximum efficiency. And so I think, think that this is where, I mean, I'm not a believer in any one methodology of any kind. I think

that there's just sort of a framework you put in place and you pull from it what you will. But obviously there's this idea today of like radical transparency, right? Just being totally blunt. This is the way I feel. This is why I feel that way. Let's skip all the BS. Let's skip the padding on the back. Let's get to the meat and potatoes. And to a certain extent, I agree with that. So long as you could be empathetic, hopefully when you do it, if you are the empathetic one, And if you're not, then, well, this is going to be a really easy concept for you to be radically transparent. You probably do it every day by accident. But I think that the reality is that you have to get to people's core to figure out the very kernel that leads to the poison fruit of the tree.

What is it? The fruit of the poisonous tree. What led to the point where you took a bite of the apple? And it starts at the seed level. And so you can't go forward unless you go all the way backward. and you have to get people to realize that they have not explored their curiosity because if they were curious even about themselves. My wife gave me a perfect example of this the other day, and it sort of ties in here, where, you know, she's been very big on doing like the Ancestry.com and the learning about her roots and so forth. And she asked me, why do I not care about this?

And it was ironic as someone who does what I do every day to not be curious about something. And so I sort of took a step back and said, well, wait a minute, why am I not curious about this? And I went on this whole thing of what was family to me and what was the importance of family. And I ended up having this much longer, I'm sure, conversation that my wife intended with her. But the point is that she opened my eyes by realizing that the very fault of my nature was to not take what I do in business and bring it to my personal life. So I think that there is something to be said here about taking it back to that very serious question of, are you curious? And taking it from there. I think most people would learn a lot if they just started there.

Part of that curiosity, Scott, is I was reading The Road Less Traveled by Dr. Scott Peck. I'm not sure if you read it, but there's a quote I pulled. I actually wrote down about curiosity because I know it's a big theme amongst you and what you believe in based on my notes on your work. And the quote was, we must constantly revise our maps of reality as we acquire new information. However painful that is, lest we use maps that once served us well but are now outlawful. outdated. The way to ensure our maps are accurate is to expose them to the criticism of others. And I think this is constantly, whether you say it's strong opinions weekly held, which I know people you've talked to use that phrase. And I know others who've said that, whether it's Adam Grant and other

leaders. But I think that's a good way to operate, especially today. A lot of, you know, you must choose a side and then just no matter what, that's your side. And as opposed to saying, well, let me look at this from the other side or let me look at this from every single potential angle and then figure out what's right. But then constantly reevaluate. It doesn't mean you're a flip-flopper or that you don't have a spine or you don't have a backbone. It just means that you just want to get to the truth, the real truth on a regular basis. And curiosity is what typically leads to that.

Absolutely. I think, you know, look, we're in a day and age where you also have to have a couple things in order for that quote, I believe, to be meaningful to the way you bring it into your life. And that is, first, you know, the famous newsman once said, you know, everybody's entitled to their own set of opinions, but not their own set of facts. And so I think today the problem is people are shifting the maps based on faulty premises. And so I think, again, a true leader has to understand the difference between. a lens or tunnel vision that is causing them to have poor judgment, poor thinking, poor understanding. But they has to have a true north that they fundamentally believe in and then obviously be

willing to be challenged to grow from that position, of course. But I think today we have too many people that are trying to create a chessboard that is not based on a reality of any kind. And so there's only so many dimensional realities you can create of your path. of what you want to do. You know, certain entrepreneurs, if you put this into more proper context of the conversation, you know, they don't believe in walls. They don't believe in floors. They don't believe in anything. They believe it's just you're in a certain space in a certain time and you're going to move the needle forward. You're going to move the ball forward. And wherever that ball leads is where you're going to end up. Yeah. And so that that's an important thing. But I think if I was going to add to your quote with one quote that I think is very meaningful, you know, Mark Twain, this is one of my favorite movies of recent time was The Big Short, which is great, based obviously on a wonderful book. And it starts, the whole movie starts with, I think it's something like,

it ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you don't, it ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you think you know that's not true that does or something to that effect. And so I think that there has to be something very, very important when you are pushing your own path and pushing your own road, you have foundational principles, you have foundational truths. And then from there, you know, you move forward. you figure out what that looks like, what the reality around you needs to be, and you create that reality.

All right. This is good. Scott, I'm curious, how do you answer the question? What do you do? Oh, boy. You know, it's funny. I, you know, that's such a good question, Ryan. What kills me is, is that I've not figured it out yet because I hate using that.

I'm the CEO of the community company, right? I mean, that's like the thing, right? Like, I also don't want to, you know, make it sound like I'm a community builder because that's just to me these days. So it could mean a million and one things to a million and one different people. You know, I think at the end of the day, and this is going to sound to those that would know me would get it, and I certainly don't mean to make it sound like, oh, look at me. But I think that what I have learned is as you explore business and as you go to the upper echelons of business,

if somebody has to ask you that question, you're hanging out with the wrong people. Because the reality is big business development deals, big partnerships. You might be pitching what you are selling or doing or wanting to pursue. But the amount of diligence today, the amount of stuff that's out there about you, reputational, you know, little breadcrumbs all over the world in the form of the Internet, the reality is that it is what others define you. as that defines their worldview one way or the other of what you do, you can help to correct mistakes or figure out, but everybody's got a lens. And so I prefer to let people either know what I do already or think they know what I do. And that's what allows me to have conversations and not be so LinkedIn CV about it, because I think that that's just a total disaster too. Because like anything

else, going back to what I said about curiosity, if you know what I do, then you probably want to asked me a bunch of questions. And that's a way better conversation starter than let me tell you what I do. Yeah. But, but I would imagine you go to events perhaps with your wife or others and nobody knows what you do, just like all of us, even famous people, very famous. They, they are not famous in all circles. And they show up at a dinner party or whatever.

I just use that as a proxy. But you know what I mean? And what did they? And that happens. They say, what do you do? And what do you say? Yeah. So it depends on the room, right?

Yeah, yeah. If I was going for a dinner with other entrepreneurs, you know, I would say that I build, you know, community-driven programs for global brands and media companies, right? Or membership organizations for global brands and media companies. If I was in a room with, you know, just really amazing community people from the social media manager to, you know, other executives in community, I'd say, you know, I'm a B2B community builder. I think that the better way to sort of say it is I try to put myself these days in more meaningful. I'm less and less today interested in random activations of my time. And so I think it's the way of saying that I try to live life pretty purposefully at four kids. You know, I have a very, you know, fast-growing company.

I've got 100 plus people that work for me. You know, there comes a point where I am trying to minimize. the people in my life that are not incredibly meaningful or that I can't add value to. And so I would argue that I would probably not be the right person at that dinner meeting, right? If it was not a curated room where people sort of understood who was there. And what I know is the best curators, I know this is probably not where you're going with the question, but I think that sort of the thing that I always look at is, you know, people like myself always want to make sure everybody in the room has all the bona fides out of the way before anybody's there. You remove every friction point.

You know, you send that in the email. Hey, guys, this is what everybody does. Here's a link to LinkedIn. Here's their link to LinkedIn. Here's one thing about them. Can't wait to introduce you. And that also opens up the opportunity that there's some research that can be done, that people can make their own judgments.

And it allows for, again, the more curious mind to take over to allow for more of a, you know, robust series of conversations or actually getting to know someone instead of feeling like you have to be on this pedestal or be a certain way with a certain group. And so I believe more in thoughtful curation, activating my own time in that manner, whether I am spearheading it or just simply being a participant. But the thoughtfulness of that type of thing I think is really these days what I'm more into with my time whenever possible. And you in Ryan, how do you say his last name, by the way? Paul. Paul, I thought so.

Okay, wrote a book called Super Connector, Stop networking and Start Building Business Relationships That Matter. this is I guess one of the reasons why you write books because this is how I became aware of you and others I'm sure have as well. You want to be out there in multiple mediums. And I found it extremely helpful. I've had listeners who have as well and have requested you, which I don't always accept those requests. But if they look like they're really good, then I definitely do. And then I started doing some research and see that Fast Company calls you, the Pandora of Gen Y

networking, and that's right in the front of your website. So I imagine you wouldn't put that there if you didn't think it mattered to you. What does that mean when somebody calls you the Pandora of Gen Y networking? I must be doing something, right?

No, you know, look, I mean, at the end of the day, obviously I have to put the corporate website up, has to have all the bona fides, you know, to your point earlier, of let people do their research so that we can have a more meaningful engagement when we meet or speak. But I think at the end of the day, what I care about most is I've just, and I put my partner obviously in this sort of bucket too, we just fundamentally believe in a certain

framework of how we live our personal and professional lives around this idea that social capital is the most important currency that you have because it is the only thing that will be with you from the beginning and all the way to the end consistently, whether you're in your in your up phase, in your down phase, in your blah phase, you're happy, you're sad, you're depressed, you're a billionaire, the people you surround yourself with define who you are and what you want to aspire to be. They're the ones that push you. They're the ones that help you to achieve greatness or to overcome hardship. And so I think that the way I look at this is when it comes to what do I do for a living to go back to the previous question, you know,

I'm a curator of people. I really do believe that the right people meeting at the right time in a meaningful and thoughtful way can change two directions of two people simultaneously in something that is more impactful than money, more impactful than a contract, more impactful than anything they've done prior, just because they were put together by someone who saw something that could truly, and I don't want to go something as far as they change the world per se, but change their worlds. And that's really what I think I built our entire company based on. Now, obviously, it's taking a lot of forms in what we do from a day-to-day operational point of view to a servicing point of view. But the very core thesis is what happens when you bring together amazing people to do amazing things in an environment where they're allowed to be their most honest, truest selves with someone that's got both their backs to make sure that they're getting

what they need because sometimes they're too afraid to ask one another for it. And I think that that's really the key, the connectivity of people in the way it was meant to be, not in the way it's become in the social media world. Okay. Can we get tactical here for the second half of this talk, man? Let's go. All right. So I'm going to just go through some of the notes I jot down and I'll try to formulate these notes into questions here on the fly. That's kind of the fun of doing this show.

Okay. why I'm sure everyone listening can think of a time when they both did this and this has been done to them and then I can I can ask you for help as to why we all shouldn't do this. Why is it bad to say, how can I help? Oh, God, I hate that question. I know. Here's the thing, right? You know what it is? It's bigger than that.

Okay. The problem is is that I believe that. marketers have fundamentally fucked up every single platform, whether that is quote unquote networking or email or whatever, right? Because at some point, something was working when it was wholesome and true for someone. Then version two was 10 people hearing about the one person. So they put their tweak on it and then made their version of what that tactic was just a little bit, quote unquote, better. And then five versions in, when there's 50,000 people, it's now become the number five item in the list. on Entrepreneur Inc.Magazin.com of things to do when meeting people. And that's the edipus of, you know, the odyssey of what happens in these situations. And so today the reason I hate that question is because it has become the formulaic next step. It was not built that way. That was not what happened when it started in whatever, you know, time it was.

But that's what it's become. Because it's become today the kind of thing where you're at an event in the back of your brain, you know you're there to, quote, quote, meet people that can. help you, right? And so you know there's a series of sort of social scripts you're supposed to do and get into that room and meet that person and hand that business card and then just so you don't feel like the other person thinks you're a total prick or aloof or have been listening to a thing they've said, which by the way, most times you haven't. You're going to ask a question with no thought, no background, shows you have not been listening because you would know how to help them or if

you could before asking the question. And then you're going to say randomly to the person you met five minutes ago, hey, you know, this has been great. Is there anything I can do to help you? And what does that do? Let me tell you why that's a terrible question on multiple levels. Number one, it shows you're thoughtless. You either know how to help someone or you don't. So one way is you holding back that and building a relationship where one day you can be meaningful, proactive about it, that's the way to go. Number two, like I said, total social script.

Everybody's waiting for it. Feels like you need a shower after talking to a networker that does this all day, right? Number three, at the end of the day, when you say, can I help you? what can I do to help you, you're basically putting another person on the spot and giving them a homework assignment to someone they don't really know. So they can't just open the kimono. And if they do, it means that they're probably not someone that, frankly, you both want to help out in general. You help him and he help you because you shouldn't be able to know how someone five minutes ago. And again, there's outliers.

I mean, look, this is the CEO and you've got an opportunity, you know, to meet someone that truly can change your world. but it was a different scene or scenario. I get that. That's the outlier. That's not what we're talking about here, right? But if you are in the situation where, you know, you're asking someone that just met you, what can they do to help? What meaningful response should they give you?

Hey, I know we just met, but how can I help you? Well, you know, I am looking to raise $50 million. Do you have a check on you? What do you think is going to happen? And so the more thoughtful and meaningful and frankly human way is to go back to human in this. it's just take away tidbits from your conversation, little treasure troves of value that you learn about the person that you could put into the notes section of your iPhone address book. And then over time, know that you can always follow up or be at another event, maybe a couple months later, see the person, flip open your phone, look at all the things you talked about and said, hey, Tom, remember me? I met you at that event.

Last time I saw you, you said you were going on that trip to Florida with your family. How was it? And you've just built the next step in the relationship of a continuous common sense, human way, technologically supported, not because you're cheating the relationship, but because you're supporting the relationship, because the human brain can't remember all that data. So I think that we just have to stop thinking. Everyone is a target, like a networker mentality, for trying to get something. Because the last and final thing I'll say, if I had to do number four on that list, is the second you ask,

you've just obligated in the person's mind that you're asking that you're going to do this, that you are basically now going to be expecting the same thing. You are not thinking long term. You have gone into this with transactional mentality. And in my opinion, more times than not, that transactional short-term thinking, financially motivated stuff is sales marketing 101, and it's people are not stupid. They know it. And you've just destroyed a bridge with someone before you even got the chance to get it off the ground.

So, Ryan, in a short, very calm sort of way, I hope I made that pretty clear to your audience of why I think that is the god-awful question of god-awful questions and things like it. I think I picked, I should say, I'm happy with the first note that I picked, Scott. We got you tuned up a bit, which is great. That's the goal here, man. But I can tell you, you're truly passionate about it. But one of the takeaways from there is the difference between being transatlined. transactional versus thinking long term. And when I think of people who sustain excellence, all of them think long term.

They're always, they play the long game on a regular basis and their actions. I think of our mutual friend Jason Gainard. He has never asked me how he can help me. He always says, I'm your biggest fan. I'm looking to serve you. And then every like six months, I don't know if he's got a reminder to do this, maybe he does. He'll send me names of two people. That would be amazing guest for this podcast.

I mean, amazing ones and say, hey, what do you like to meet these people? And then I would, I mean, they're never like scrubs, I guess, for lack of course. And then I'll have an introduction email within about two hours usually because he always checks with both sides, which is obviously just networking one-on-one, right? Don't, maybe I could, we should talk about this because I shouldn't assume anything because it still happens to me on a regular basis. Tell the very brief basic rules for making introductions and why they should be made. So I'm going to assume a lot of your listeners, no common sense stuff, like the double opt-in, right?

Well, I would think, but yes, but I would say part of, because there's a deeper part of this from your book that I assume you'll get to. But you start from the beginning and then get there, though. Yeah, I think that there's something to be said that you should not be an introduction machine. You should be very careful with it because not only are you putting yourself out there and creating a homework assignment for yourself, which is not a bad thing, by the way, but you have to make sure you're accepting. at it. Because if you give crappy referrals or introductions, people are going to stop listening to you, words going to get out that you're just simply, again, same kind

of mentality as the can I help you people. It's like the people that just think they're helping you by introducing you to random people all the time and giving you a homework assignment, right? So nobody wants to be constantly bombarded with crappy or one-sided introduction. So you always want to make sure that both people are aware with a couple

of lines of detail, not, you know, hey John, I have a friend Sam, can I introduce you? What the hell does that mean. You want to make sure you give enough detail very succinctly, like something along lines of, hey, John, met this great guy, Sam. This is what his business does. He has this specific challenge. I know you solved this challenge before. Can I make a five-minute intro for you to, you know, intro for you to jump on a call for five minutes? That's how you do an intro and then the yes or no will come from the other person. So I think that's one thing. Another thing is making sure intent is

clear, right? You as the super connector or curator of people needs to make sure you understand wholeheartedly the intent of both sides in an introduction. Because some people are wolves and sheep's clothing. And while they're not telling you there's a sales or marketing thing they're pushing, they will do that with your contacts. And then all of a sudden, not only do you look bad to the person you introduce that person to, but you just feel icky afterwards because you didn't get it. You didn't catch it.

So you now got to play catch up with the other person that you sort of screwed. So I think that there's a couple of things that just be keeping in mind, you know, when to make the right introductions, when not to make the right introduction, when not to make introductions at all, when, you know, never overpromise and under deliver. I know people all the time and say, oh, I know Bill Gates. Can I introduce you to Bill Gates? And then clearly they could never deliver that. And even if they could, what would be the reason for it? So I think there's just a lot of common sense steps, taking a deep breath and realizing, okay, everybody, does this make sense? can it provide mutual value? Are both these people amazing? Did I get a double opt-in? Did I do the

introduction? Did I follow up with both of them to make sure not only was my lens right, but that they both connected and saw value from one another? Last step assess yourself. Was this a smart introduction? Yes, it was. Awesome. My lens is still good. No, it's not. Learn from it. Adapt. Get the why. Don't do it again. So these are the kinds of steps that you'd want to do. Now, there's something to be said about your highest level of your community. So I'm going to use Jason as an example here, because I think literally, you know, the perfect, perfect guy for this sort of example. When I was writing the book, which Jason obviously is in, there was another person that he felt I should meet for the book after hearing about what the book was after my first interview

with him in our editor. And he said it was this gentleman named Derek Coburn. And Derek is another hardcore connector, Titan of the financial advisory role in the time. Yep, great guy, wrote a book, networking is not working, great guy. And I didn't know Derek. And here's the thing, because Jason's so good at what he does,

and so I'm going to be clear with your audience, this is for like the elite of elite who can break the rule sometimes. Because again, not every rule is set in stone, right? Jason knows me incredibly well. Jason knows Derek incredibly well. He knows where we're going.

was our goals. He knows our businesses. So he did not ask for the double optin. Not only did he not ask for the double optin, but he wanted to make the introduction knowing it was going to work because he knew us both so well, more meaningful to both of us and through nuance of, and I'll explain what that means in a minute, that he didn't want it to just go unnoticed, like on the, like sort of under the, on the side, right? He didn't want to just be another email. So he filmed a two-minute private video for the two of us, giving all. All the friction points away. Again, like I talked about, the bona fides, here's what I am, here's who he is, here's

what he does, all that stuff to get out of the way, and basically said, you two should meet, Scott's writing a book, in general, you're both excellent community folks, definitely connect. The fact that someone like Jason took two minutes to not only make the intro, but to go above and beyond to make it that human and that personal is the next level stuff. because at the end of the day, while in theory the video might have taken less time, like physical time to do,

it was the thoughtfulness. And the fact that I'm telling this story still to this day, that not only did Derek and I connect, but Derek plays a major role in one of the chapters of the book as well. And at the end of the day, it's just clear to me that his lens,

Jason just gets it. Like for the rest of time, he can maybe make an intro to me at some point that might not make sense. It wouldn't matter because I know that 99% of the time,

he gets me. And that's like the master's super, you know, skill set and framework for the super connector mindset that is very hard to achieve because it requires maximum empathy, maximum understanding, maximum listening skills. And most importantly, and I don't want to blow up Jason's spot, I'm not sure whether that's a follow-up strategy that he has. But even if it was, he would be following what I would do, which is that he is not automating, hey, meet random person. He's simply triggering himself through some sort of technology means because you are important to him to say, I haven't touched base in a while with Ryan. What can I do? Oh yeah, he's got that podcast. He really cares about it. Who've met lately that are just exceptional?

I know the kind of people is looking for. Takes the five minutes, looks through the Rolodex. And all the whole thing was was a technology prompt. Does that make him less human? No, it makes him more human knowing his shortcomings like every person. They can't possibly remember all this data. but the prompt allows him to be his best human self, and that's the key. Mutual benefit. And in order to break the rules, you have to really understand and know them and know the proper time to break the rules. It's safe spot as for most just to not, just to follow the basic ones. But I think just think at its core, will both of these people truly benefit?

And if that's the case, then let's go to the next step. Okay, another note that I liked, let's talk about the gray zones and connectors and why connectors are in the gray zones. And what that means is basically back to the theme of this conversation we're having today is being curious. So oftentimes somebody will say that they like something. In a lot of cases, I'll use your example too, but your examples, you know, basically, I like asparagus. And someone would say the average person, the non-curious person would say, oh, that's great. great. And then the super connector type, the curious type, would say, why? What is it about those skinny green stalks that speak to you? You know, something more interesting. And to me, a lot of times now

because of the show, people will say, hey, this book is great, whatever book it is. Read this book. And obviously, the national question is why, or if the book was referred to them, I would say, why did that person refer to you? What did they say specifically about it? And then based on whatever the next, hopefully there's a decent answer there. And then from there it goes again and again, maybe like a four-year-old, right?

I have a four-year-old who would say, why, why, why? And I think that's just a good habit to develop is live in those gray zones of curiosity when somebody says that they like something. Yeah, again, curiosity is everything. The lens that the person is giving you is important. I mean, there's so many steps. What is your level of association connection to the person that's making a recommendation of any kind, right? Do you trust them with, would you trust them with your bank account, your spouse, your children, your house? Would you not let them walk your dog? You know, there's a very different level of just gut feel on what is the level of trust you have with the person. Then after that level is ascertained, it's, has this person made a recommendation to me before of any kind or referral of any kind before? What was my experience with that? Was it good, bad, or otherwise? it sent me on a goose chase.

Was it the best thing I've ever experienced? And then after that, it's, okay, if I've gotten to the steps where I'm going to take this person's recommendation of any kind seriously, then that's where it's, do I agree with with this, disagree with this? Is it valuable, invaluable? You know, these are the kinds of steps that I think not just apply to a network, but apply to just the way you should live your life and the way you should spend your time. Because, you know, to quote a mentor of mine, the most important asset, as we all know,

is time. but she used to say to me, real relationships take real time and you can't cheat real time. I've since added the only thing you can do is try to cheat your time to create more real time. And you could only do that through being methodically focused on what matters and disregarding entirely what doesn't. And finding smart systems in technology and in your life to allow you to get more meaningful time in a day by having that keen lens, having delegation, having systems that enable you to really go all in on things that are meaningful, whether that is the referral or a recommendation from that person, or something like your family. But you can't do it all and you can't listen to everyone. Okay.

I love the thought of experiences. I think it Chip and Dan Heath, we talked about this probably about a year ago now and you write about this in Chapter 12. How does somebody – so I'm thinking of the person listening right now. Scott, let's create an avatar here is 35 years old. They have a management role in a big company. They have ambition, perhaps to advance within their company or leave and do something else, not sure. So they're really listing this and it's your emotion and knowledge and wisdom is helpful. And all of a sudden we start talking about creating a remarkable experience.

What is your overall philosophy on creating great experiences? Yeah, so it's, it's, you know, a combination of getting amazing people together. This is sort of going back to even Jason for a minute, you know, what he does in his events, the mastermind talks, is astonishing, right? He gets highly curated people, invitation only many by application, great content sessions, amazing speakers, total transparency, vulnerability of your folks that are there, a real creation of trust through community association, exceptional atmosphere, misan sense, if you will, ecosystem you're in, and just being very thoughtful around every part of the experience. So, for example, one of our organizations, YEC, Young Entrepreneur Council, we do an annual summit and Eden, Utah, on the top of a mountain,

and everything from every part of the menus, to every activity and optionality of those activities, to the ways that we introduce members based on the data we have, have so that they know people right before they even come up. They've never met another member in person before or allow them to get out of that normal clicky social group that they might have in a subgroup by having them meet people that they should be talking to. They wouldn't necessarily have gotten to in conversation because we know what both sides' challenges or strengths and weaknesses are based on what they've told us. So it's just finding a way to create something

that people clamor for, that people are enamored by, that people build into their must-does or must-be-a-part-ofs. And that can be, whether it's an event, it could be as simple as a Facebook forum sometimes. If it's well-created and well-moderated and saves people time and energy and is incredible people surrounding you. The whole point of a remarkable experience at the end of the day is basically to ensure that the people and the things you're bringing together just click to allow for maximum efficiency, value, and exchange, and community to really take hold in a powerful way. It's also important that it humanizes the people that run the community so that people know, especially in this digital world where most connection happens these days, even in a vetted scenario, just because someone knows you through a username or a concierge email address or whatever the case may be in our world,

we want them to know we are here to serve you. So I used to say that our executives, you know, would serve dinner at our events, right? We're not going to get the wait staff. We're going to serve the dinner, right? Finding these little touch points. Another thing that I know another gentleman who maybe has been on your show, Dan Martel, he calls this the one-up. You know, we have a version of it too, where, you know, if you have a lot of information about the people or just know the people that you're surrounded by, if you're at a table of five people, most people suck at introducing themselves. suck at it horrible right and this is their moment to basically get that group think around what they

do of who is this what can i do to support them what can i talk to this person about are we in the same industry and if you mess up that intro in a group setting you know it says a lot right but almost by accident and so what we do is when people are giving you know that sort of two minute introduction on themselves we make sure we know one or two things they are likely not going to mention. But if it comes from the curator of the table, say if I'm sitting at a table, and it's John talking about his business, and he says, oh, we did great this year, hired some great people, and so on and so forth, then I'd say, as long as it's public, we don't ever want to share anything private. But if I said, and not only that, but this year, John made a commitment to helping this

particular charity that was his main focus as a philanthropic arm of his business now, and he gave $5 million a way to charity this year. You just now learn something about John. He never, he never, would have said himself because he doesn't want to humble brag. It's not his role. It's not the way he was thinking about it. But it's important that it gives a more full picture of the person. So being able to one-up people as they help be introduced and facilitate these conversations to allow for maximum value of all participants and stakeholders who are dedicating their time

is an important part of the community manager's role. What shows that you care? It shows that you put deliberate thought into it. And that's the difference. I mean, that's the surely human difference about it, that you speak. spent time to really dig into each person and learn. And that takes time. Like you said, it takes real time.

Real life. It just take real time. I love that quote. And that makes a lot of sense when it comes to as a leader. That's something that that's our role for truly trying to build those relationships. I think the best takeaway that I can tell your audience is if you had, if you don't remember a single thing I've said this entire time, I would remember two things actually. One would be the real time quote because honestly, again, just like I said earlier on the podcast,

These things sound very obvious, like, oh, this is just so obvious. Duh. And I would argue that it's not to most people because it just doesn't click with a lot of people. So hopefully there's a percentage of people that is not obvious. They can change their mindset. But the second is this. Technology today, social media today, all these tools have sort of warped us, again, going back to what I said earlier, into believing and frankly allowing us to conflate the difference between being a connector

and being connected. And I think that because of that, we are allowing technology to suck away the humanity that it should be actually defining. We should be defining technology's role in our life to help amplify our humanity to help drive human interaction.

Instead, we're allowing it to suck it away and remove it. And I think the winners and losers of those with the strongest social capital. And I don't mean this by how many billionaires you have in your network or how many awesome entrepreneurs. I mean this just by amazing people that have an amazing life all around, that are surrounded by people that they believe are the best versions of themselves or allow them to be the best versions of themselves. If you really have achieved that amazing life, regardless of your

financial status, social status, any of that, amazing life is because you have created a clear moment to understand that your job is to take the tools we have at our disposal and use them to be as human as you can. It is not a cheat to have a follow-up reminder to tell you, it's been a while since you talked to John, because you said, as a human, John's important to me. I want to follow up with him. Don't let me forget. It's not a con to say, I wrote five things in my phone about my conversation with John because I probably won't see him for three months, but I want to remember what we talked about because I know my memory is good enough that once I I am reminded.

It'll be like I'd never left that conversation and so on and so forth. So I just want to encourage people to understand that there are ways to be a connector. There are ways to be a great person. But don't forget the fact that it is real time and that you can cheat that real time if you are incredibly systemized and smart about how you maintain your relationships. Let's get really tactical. What are tools you would recommend to help us all be better at this? Yeah, so I mean, and this is the thing. I don't mean to cop out.

There is no one tool. There is no one thing. I know people, for example, my friend Ryan Bethay, okay, hardcore connector. He uses an Excel spreadsheet. It's incredibly long, you know. Same thing, Michael Roderick, another phenomenal connector, right? His spreadsheet is not only of information, but of he's given him a proprietary letter score based on what kind of person they are in the buckets he travels in and personal notes about everything. person. And then you have some people that have hardcore CRMs. Like contextually or something that gives

you the reminders. I mean, I'm curious about. Yeah. I mean, followup.c. I use for email reminders. I know boomerang for g-mails another one. Like if I shoot an email to someone and I know I haven't talked to them and I say, oh, let me just, whatever the email, last email I shot them was, let me just remind myself by putting in the followup.com.com thing in a BCC line, I'm going to follow up with this person in six months anyway because I just want to. And it just triggers me. And it also lets me know where I left off with them. Again, in the case of making video, your iPhone. I mean, I think that, again, I don't want people to get lost in the minutia that that this is step one, step two, step three, or it's this tool, that tool, this tool. I believe

you have to build systems based on what are you trying to achieve, and then how do you use basically technology or, you know, different tools in your everyday life? How can you fit things seamlessly into you? As an example, anybody that knows me really well, knows that if they see me with a laptop or sitting in front of a computer more than once a week, it's a lot. And so, I have to have the most mobile ready experience for anything, whereas my partner is in front of his laptop the entire day. These are differences in user experience. And so while something might be very easy for Ryan and something is very difficult for me just based on an app or a functionality or whatever, it doesn't mean the same goals can't be achieved. It just means it has to work for you.

And that's why even when we talk in the book, whether it is about the technology tools and systems, whether it is about the things you're specifically going to do versus the first. framework you should have, we say we are not in the business of giving tips, tools, and, you know, cheats, right? We're giving you a mindset that you can then make your own. There are certain tried and true principles of this mindset, but it is not the definitive list of them. It is simply a series of things that we know work based on best practices established, almost probably accidentally, by many of the smartest people in this space. That doesn't mean they figured it all out, and it doesn't mean everything is going to work exactly for you, but it's the beginning. of a roadmap, again, whether it is the methodology or the tool set, that you can then over time

figure out what does this mean to me? How can I think like this? How can I act on this? But in a way that makes sense to my day to day. One more. When you talk about how to build consistent referrals, I think it peaks the curiosity of a lot of people who doesn't want referrals, right? We want to be playing the long game and build out a system that we're obviously making referrals, but we're also receiving them as well. What are some of the, what's the mindset around building consistent referrals? So I think this is a perfect way to, to bookend this podcast today. I go back to Derek Coburn and what he did. And I think it's a very, very smart, but also human, but while being business-driven.

Again, the difference that I'm trying to convey, and that of Ryan as well, is you just don't want people to be networkers, which are short-term transactional, always in it for the bottom-line type people, versus connectors who are long-term, you know, thinking about convening people, thinking about building mutual value,

thinking about others first. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that just because you think long-term value and long-term relationships, doesn't mean that you don't have to pay the bills. Right. It just means there's a smarter way to do things that doesn't make people feel like they need a shower after meeting you. And so what Derek Coburn used to do, now, Derek was in an industry from financial advisory,

which if you do any homework on the industry, you'll find out pretty quickly that most of people, most people in that industry have single-digit referral numbers. His was in the high 30s. He was an anomaly in that industry. And it was because he wasn't just hitting a people, hey, can I get your customer? Hey, can I get your friend? hey, can I get your teacher, whatever it was, right? He thought about how do I reverse engineer the goal, but create it in a communal setting that makes sense. And so he thought about it, and he said,

okay, what is it that all of my financial clients, and he was in the higher end wealth management space, right? So this wasn't like the mom and pop shop putting money. These are people that have probably tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, an even harder market, if anything. And so what he said is, what is the thing that unites this audience? What do they care about? Well, they've made their money and probably make more money every day. So the idea of trying to give them content around, let's make money together, is probably not going to win. So we thought of it and he said, what is a reflection of me? And they came up with high-end wine, very expensive and rare wine. And then he said, okay, well, I'm going to make this experiential. So I'm going to do this event

as a customer appreciation event. I'm going to invite all of my current clients. And I'm going to say, listen, there's only two rules for this event. Number one, you must absolutely love wine. And because in a way, he's also vetting, right? He's saying, okay, if you like a $10,000 bottle of wine, you're probably directly in the referral spectrum, right? So that was number one. And then number two, he said, he said, you're allowed to bring one guest, and that guest also must love this kind of wine. So now he just basically gave his highest affinity consumers, the ability to have a plus one, an experiential event with high-end wine that they wouldn't have every other day, with people just like them. When the introductions would be made for the plus one, if let's say

John was the customer that was invited and he gets a plus one to Sam, when he calls Sam on the phone, he's not going to say, hey, do you want to come to this wine event? And that's going to be end the conversation. He's going to say, hey, my financial advisor just inviting me to this really rare wine experience and I have a plus one. Do you want to go? Oh, well, what's it about? What's who is he? What's his deal? So before the plus one even enters the space, they're going to know what he does, who he is. And the fact that this is a customer appreciation event immediately means that that person is going to know that clearly John, the customer, is a happy customer. And the referral is going to know all this before shaking hands with Derek in that event. Now they go into the event, have an exceptional time. And at some point in the evening, like you would, at least if you're a good person, you're going to go up to the host and thank them. And instantly, you're not going to say, tell me about your financial advisory services, but you are going to say, this is really amazing.

John has amazing things to say, you know, we should talk or, oh, or Derek being able to say, well, you know, we try our best and, you know, if there's ever anything, any of your needs, I'm happy to help you with any members of my staff we can. It just allows for a much more human conversation. And at some point, you're probably also going to hear John kind of pulling a one-up on his friend because I bet that, you know, Sam's buddy, a Sam's financial advisor, doesn't treat their customers this way, doesn't give them rare, expensive bottle of wine events. And now the circle is complete. And not one time did you have to pull out a card. Not one time did you have to

give a presentation, send marketing materials, none of it to build a constant inbound funnel just because you took a step back, convened people that matter, curated the room to be highly efficient to the goals of your strategic vision for your own business, your own self, but at the same time being human that you want to convene amazing people, and that's your purview, and make it a natural conversation. So when the time does come, business flows naturally. It's not, let me hit you up and set up a meeting to pitch you my presentation. Yeah.

One devil's advocate response is, though, that costs a lot of money. Yep, it absolutely does. What do you think about that? Well, if you look at how Elliot Bisno started Summit series, he took 11 people on a ski resort trip to go down a mountain together. So my point is, I'm not trying to be here saying that this is not a lot of work. And I'm certainly not trying to be here saying that there is a right or wrong way. I go back to the framework. I provide you the lens, the framework, the mindset, and you make it your own.

There are simpler ways and there are simpler audiences and not everybody's going to be going after similar people. But I would just say that at the heart of that story, right, at the heart of that story is not, oh, look at the rare wine. The heart of that story is what united this community to be advocates and ambassadors and the strongest level of affinity to enable them to do this and to enable Derek to be seen as the center of the sphere of influence. That's what people need to be thinking. Well, this is good stuff, Scott. I really appreciate you bring it. it, man. I really do. I mean that, given the fact that you shared a ton of wisdom here that was extremely helpful. So I really appreciate that. Where would you send my listeners to learn more about

you online? Totally. You can go visit our website at community.c.o. Or you can go online to my personal site, which is just scottd.gurber.com. And then Twitter, I'm all the time. You can check me at Scott Gerber. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Scott. And obviously I'd love to continue our dialogue. As we both progress, man. Sounds good, man. Thank you very much for having me. Thanks, Scott. After we get done recording an episode, I think, was this entertaining, was this useful, and was this helpful?

In Scott's case, I absolutely feel like he checked all the boxes, the combination of the science and the story and the emotion when he got tuned up a bit asking about the how can I help question. Sorry for those who don't enjoy the colorful language. It happens sometimes, but I want my guest to be authentic and real, and that's Scott. So if you enjoyed it, which I hope you did, I'd love it if you would write a review, subscribe and rate the show in iTunes Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. That's write a review, subscribe and rate the show, five stars if you listen to an iTunes Apple podcast and tell a friend or two. That's how this thing continues to grow, and each day is bigger than the one before.

and that's been happening now for almost four years with this podcast. I am so grateful for you doing that for me and giving me the opportunity to continue to do what I love on a daily basis. Thank you so much. See you next week. This episode is brought to you by another one of my favorite companies. It's OGO. I am a big fan of the leadership team at OGO. Their new Alpha Convoy Collection of Travel Bags and Backpacks are fully loaded and equipped to keep you confident and prepared for any

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