The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 314: John Calipari & Michael Lombardi - Building & Sustaining A Culture Of Excellence

Episode Date: June 9, 2019

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk 314: John Calipari & Michael Lombardi - Building & Sustaining A Culture Of Excellence Full show notes found at www.LearningLeader.com John Calipari has been the head coach of the University of Kentucky basketball team since 2009, with whom he won the NCAA Championship in 2012. He has been named Naismith College Coach of the Year three times (in 1996, 2008 and 2015), and was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 2015. Calipari has coached Kentucky to four Final Fours, in 2011, 2012, 2014 and 2015. Michael Lombardi was an assistant to the coaching staff of the New England Patriots (until 2016) and is a former analyst for the NFL Network and sportswriter at NFL.com.  Lombardi also previously served as an NFL executive with the San Francisco 49ers working withBill Walsh, Cleveland Browns, Philadelphia Eagles, and Oakland Raiders working with Al Davis.  This was recorded in front of an audience at an event called the NCAA Final Four Coaching Consortium.  The people in the audience were college basketball coaches and athletic directors. Notes: The "Players First" credo: "When I worked for Larry Brown he told me, if you care about the kids and you really care, you'll always have a job." "Larry was a coaches coach, but a players coach, who wasn't afraid to coach.  Right now, we're moving in a direction where we're afraid to coach.  Correcting in real time is so important." "Everyone said the 1 and done rule would ruin college basketball, they wanted to replace me." "If you're about your kids, whatever happens good for them, will not be a negative for you.  It's about them first.  It's about us second.  If you want them to be servant leaders, they have to see it in you." "If they don't see you getting involved in the community, they won't get involved in the community."  Players first is not just them playing basketball, it's everything. "We all should be reading.  The more curious you are, the more curious your players will be.  Read books, give your players books to read." Lombardi -- Coach Walsh was all about the players, he was the first to go on fishing tournaments with players.  He bought Bubba Smith a big tv, he made Michael sit and eat all meals with him. Bill Walsh had a book club in San Francisco Bill Belichick is all about the history of the game and the history of our country.  When you go in the cafeteria and you see the great players on the wall, he expects you to know the history and the culture of your team. You should ask all coaches, "who assigns the jersey numbers?"  The coach should assign those numbers, not the equipment manager.  Your player needs to know the history of that number. Calipari -- Process on getting guys to want to play as a team: It all starts in recruiting.  "If you promise every kid 25 shots, good luck.  Because at some point, someone will be upset.  If the relationship starts with a lie, you'll never recover." "Whatever you do here is earned.  If you're good enough you'll start, but you'll decide that." "If you want them to be great teammates it starts immediately when you meet them.  They have to earn it." You can't oversell and under deliver.  People will not buy in to that. "Pat Riley gave me one of the best compliments ever, he said, 'Your players are some of the best teammates in the NBA.'" Marcus Camby -- "I said, what position do you want to play?"  he said, "Shooting guard."  I said, "Okay, but we do post up our shooting guards a lot." Lombardi -- Putting together a great roster -- Roster construction: The law of 3's Whenever you take over a team you have three groups of people One -- They'll do anything you want them to do Two -- They're unsure Three -- They are never happy Focus on the people in group one and you'll win the whole team. The Four areas of leadership Command of self -- Must be discipline Command of plan Command of meaning/message Command of trust -- You cannot lie.  If you lie, you'll lose the player forever Calipari -- Took over UMass -- Terrible team at the time When he left, he got advice from a business man (Pat Nardelli) "You can a have bad deal with good people.  Stuff happens.  But you can never have a good deal with bad people." "The reason I've had success, I've had the best staffs.  Top to bottom.  When you get your job, you surround yourself with great people." "Assistant coaches must be able to work together.  They are each other's PR machine.  Each guy needs to promote the other guy." Was on football field with Bill Parcells -- Could coach all 22 guys on a football field.  He had incredible vision. The importance of mentors in your career-- Calipari "Who's your kitchen cabinet?  Who do you go to when things aren't going well?"  Who can you listen to? Ken Blanchard - The One Minute Manager Decision making -- you need to run it by someone.  Don't make big time decisions when you're still emotional. "I'll take the job the grass is greener.... Well you have to cut the grass on both sides." You need people to say, "Stop.  Tell me what you're thinking..." Lombardi -- Meeting with George Raveling "This man reads more than any human being alive." Take an hour a day to read Calipari -- Look at adversity as a challenge and failure as a learning opportunity "How does someone look when things aren't going well?  That's what I need to know." "The best moments are when things aren't going well.  Give me four games in a row when you lose... Now, I want to see what kind of person are you?"  You're on the stage by yourself, you're looking for friends." "You have issues?  People have their own issues.  They aren't worried about you."  It's about "How do I get restarted?  What's my next step?  Ask an AD, how can I be better?" "When you get fired, make amends with the people who fired you.  The next job you want?  They're going to call those people who fired you." Be a 'pay it forward' person.  The opportunities we have to change lives... And the ripples it causes from it. Lombardi -- The Obstacle Is The Way How to bounce back when you're wrong? When you get a new job, figure out why you got the job and why the person before you got fired.  Take the time to understand the mistakes made. "The only way you'll correct them is to learn them." There's two kind of jobs:  Jobs you can grow from and jobs you can make a difference in. Al Davis would ask Mike -- "Do you know why we won today?"  He wanted to know why the team won and lost and put it on paper. Bill Belichick does an autopsy after every game (win or lose).  You need to understand why the outcome happened (good or bad).  Take stock of your career every single day.  Every obstacle needs to be used to your advantage. Calipari -- "I will not coach if I'm cheating these kids." He signed a lifetime contact with Kentucky "My leverage has always been the job I've done." Why talk to other teams? "I want to help someone I know.  A player or another coach.  The whole thing we do is about relationships." If LeBron James calls you and asks you to coach his team, what will you say? "I'm not doing it.  Pat Riley said Coach Cal coaches and corrects in real time during a game.  He takes a guy out, corrects, puts him back in. You can't do that in the NBA." Lombardi -- At college pro days Belichick observed Coach Cal during a game... Watching him coach "It was so impressive, Belichick was admiring how much Cal was coaching." What skills should we develop?  The commonalities among the most successful coaches: Curious minds -- not a single playbook.  The sport moves.  Adapt. They are about other people -- Servant leaders Wired and driven to work - they love practice more than the games Smart -- Lombardi -- Divergent in thought.  Figure out what's needed with that team.  Passion. "The greatest reward for winning is the opportunity to do it more."

Curious minds, they don't have a single playbook, they do what they have to do. And I would say athletic director is the same thing. The sport moves. What's my head coach look like? I may think it's this, but the whole thing has changed and now I need this. The second thing I would tell you, they're about other people. If they're about themselves, it's hard to follow that general up the hill when he's running and you know he's all about himself. But if he's about you, they'll fight like crazy for it.

They're wired and driven to work. They love the grind. They love practice more than the games. They literally love practice more than the games. The games become a chess match. Sometimes they get in a way of having fun. This episode is brought to you by Roan. Roan is the maker of the most comfortable dress shirt ever made.

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That's Rhe.O-N-O-N. www.com slash hawk welcome to the learning leader show i am ryan hawk thank you so much for being here text learners to 44222 in order to join tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world and potentially become part of my book launch team text learners to four four two two two now on to tonight's featured leaders this one was recorded live in front of an audience at the NCAA Final Four in Minneapolis this year. First, Michael Lombardi worked with Al Davis, Bill Walsh, and the great Bill Belichick. Also was a general manager of the Cleveland Browns.

Next, the head coach of the University of Kentucky Wildcats. He's made six Final Fours, won a national championship, recently inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. Coach John Calipari needs no introduction. and this one was fascinating. We had a little bit of Q&A as well with the audience, which you'll hear. A few of the topics we got into.

Their process for recruiting and attracting top talent. Then what Coach Calipari's players first, Crito, is all about and how this applies to you. Then, a funny one, but interesting, I asked, coach, how would you respond if LeBron James called you and asked you to coach the Los Angeles Lakers. And then what to look for when hiring a candidate for a leadership position. Now, in this regard, it was about coaching.

However, I found that it applies to any profession. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Michael Lombardi and coach John Calapari. All right, this is the final keynote of the college consortium from Athletic Director U and the NABC. Obviously, very excited for our featured leaders here. I'll make the introductions first. To my right here is Michael Lombardi. He worked alongside.

Think about these people. He drove Bill Walsh's Porsche. He worked for Al Davis, and he worked for Bill Belichick. And I read this really great quote about Mike from Belichick. He said, look, Mike's one of the smartest people I know. He's one of the smartest people I've worked with. He was a huge asset for us when he worked with us here at the New England Patriots. Give it up from Michael Lombardi.

Next is probably just the introduction, but coach John Caliperi just recently inducted in the Hall of Fame a couple years ago, made six final fours, one national championship, over a billion dollars worth of NBA contracts from his players, and on and on and on. Give it up for Coach John Caliperi. And for those of you who were not here last night, my name is Ryan Hawk. I host a podcast called The Learning Leaders Show where I interview hundreds and hundreds of people to try to understand the commonalities among leaders

who sustain excellence over an extended period of time and that's why I'm happy to be here to do it with these two guys today. So first, Coach, I'll start with you. You have a motto called, or your credo called Players First. A book, you've written a lot about this, about how you take care of your players. Could you expand on why that's your credo, why it's so important to you?

If you don't mind, I'm going to. I can't see everybody. Just tell you, it's a pleasure to be here. And some of you in the room, I know, some of you I don't know. You know, whatever I can give you in this hour, I will, if you have questions or anything. If you haven't read Mike's book, read it. It's unbelievable nuggets. I love reading stuff where I can take it and give it to my players.

It's a reason that we all should be reading. The more curious you are, the more curious your players will be. But that book was really, really good. Players first, it did, I came up with the term. I can't remember when, but when I worked for Larry Brown, he told me one thing. Major thing in your coaching career, I was young, 22 years old, 23, whatever I was, said, if you care about the kids and you really care, you'll always have a job. That's what he said to me.

And that's, I got to start with a guy that was a coach's coach, but a player's coach who wasn't afraid to coach. Right now, you know, it seems as though we're moving in a direction. We're afraid to coach. Correcting in real time is so important. Having practices that are high level where you're coaching. It doesn't mean you're just there for the players and you roll over and do what they want. If you're around us, this stuff is really hard.

Every player that I coach says, please coach, keep it real. They want you to keep it real until you keep it real with them. They'd rather you keep it real with someone else. But it just, what I found out is my first year at Kentucky, five guys went to the first round in the draft, and everybody said it was going to ruin the program. you could never recover. This is crazy. You can't coach this way. Get rid of this guy. They had the list of who should replace me. And then the next year we go to the final four.

And we lose four of those guys. And the next year, we win the national title with three freshmen. If you're about your kids, whatever happens good for them is not going to be a negative for you. It just doesn't work that way. And so whether it's when we live, what we're doing for them how we're trying to get them involved in the community what it's about them first it's about us second we're this if you want them to be servant leaders they got to see it in you if they don't see it in you they're not gonna be about that if they don't see you getting involved in the community they're not going to get involved in the community if they don't see you

doing charitable things getting them involved with underprivileged kids they're not going to do it. And to do our jobs and be about players first, it's not just having them play basketball. It's all the stuff. And keeping them curious, giving them books that you like that are, anybody here read the energy bus. Okay, give it to your players. It's a great easy book. Anything you can do like that means you care more than just them as basketball players. So it's more than just do what you want to do and this is about you and whatever you want it. That's not what it meant. But I just think coming back for all your young coaches, if you really care about the kids and you truly care, you'll always have a job.

If you make it about yourself or how much I can make or, you know, and I know I'm saying that now, and people are letting you look how much you make. What are you talking about? I mean, but if you're about them, they know. And so that's where it all kind of the genesis of it. How do you feel about that, Michael, when you think about the guys you've been around your life as a GM and working in front offices when it comes to the players first mentality? Well, I think Belichick, you know, Coach Walsh was all about the players. He's the first guy to start fishing tournaments.

He wanted to have things for the players. He bought Bubba, Bubba Paris, a big screen television when there was no big screen TVs to try to get him to lose weight, you know. And he made me sit with Bubba. Bubba was this big Michigan offensive tackle. He weighed like 300 pounds back when there were no 300 pound guys. And so he made me sit and eat dinner with him. We had breakfast, lunch and dinner every night. And Bubba's motivation was this huge big screen TV.

And after about 10 days, Bubba didn't lose a pound, you know? And so Coach Walsh is like, you're screwing it up. He's got you on the take. You know, there's something going on here. Well, come to find out, Bubba was sneaking out at night going to get pizza. And the pizza guy came over the house and said, you know, the reason Bubba's not losing weight is he's over here eating these pizzas all the time. So he always used enticements to motivate players.

And then what coach was talking about books, he would teach a class in books. I mean, we had a book club at San Francisco. He wanted the players to learn about books. And Belichick is probably everything he does is the history of the game. It's about, if Veterans Day in November, the first question is going to ask one of the players

is, do you know the difference between Veterans Day and Memorial Day? When Memorial Day comes around, there's going to be a quiz. But more than anything, when you go in their cafeteria and you see the players on the wall, They're all the great Patriot players. Belichick expects the other players to know, the new players, to know who they are because Marines fight for Marines, Patriots fight for Patriots, Wildcats fight for Wildcats.

And so if you know the history of your team and the culture and the players you cared about, then you'll come through. I was telling a coach, one of the questions I put in my book that you should ask every head coaching interview is, who assigns the jersey numbers? Everybody said, well, that's the equipment guy. He assigns them. No, he shouldn't assign them. them, the head coach should assign them because whoever's wearing that jersey number is responsible for the history of the culture of the program and he's got to understand it.

And so you and you buy their, you buy their loyalty because if you can explain that you're wearing this jersey number, this is a great player, Marcus Camby's jersey number at UMass. Whoever wears that at UMass should know how great of a player Marcus Camby was. And so that's kind of what I think, to me, that's what I've been around. Coach, I read a quote from Pat 40. He said, Coach Cowell's greatest strength as a coach is his ability to create Pat 40. Yeah. He said a lot of other things too. His greatest strength as a coach's ability to create teams that play together as 1992 UMass team, one of the most over achieving units ever 30 and 5 of the suite 16. So this thought, I mean,

all these coaches in here in ADs too, we want to create a culture, a place where guys want to play together, right? So what's your philosophy on getting, in your case, the best players in the world at that age to come together and say we're going to play as a team. And I know, Michael, you got a quote about this too that you might want to jump in. But on culture building, but I think that's, I'm curious to hear about this. You know that many of you, if you've recruited against us, you know we don't get every player where we recruit. We don't.

But I think it all starts in recruiting. If you promise every kid 25 shots and 30 minutes a game and you're going to be the center and we're going to run everything through you, good luck. Because at some point, someone's going to be upset because you lied. And if the relationship starts with a lie, it never recovers. We try really hard to just, I can't promise you're going to start. I can't promise you how many minutes. I can't promise you how many shots.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that you're going to be the center of our team. Because I don't know, we lose our team every year and we have a new team. But whatever you do here is earned. But we've, again, We've started more freshmen in any coach in the history of the game, ever double. So if you're good enough, you'll start. But you decide that. If you're my best shooter or best score, you're going to shoot the most balls.

How about that? If you can't shoot threes, you're not shooting them. So now, but we're trying to teach every player. We're going to teach coach everyone as a starter. and every kid's going to have their opportunity to shine. You have to be about this team. I'm kind of giving you what we say in the home. And I see Joe over there.

They get mad because I don't do enough to, I want you so bad. You know, I'm, it's just, I just think it's so important. If you want them to be great teammates, it starts into recruiting. Our kids, what has happened for our kids, but they've earned it. And so I think the first thing in culture, what you want starts when you meet them the first time,

and their families. I mean, when you sit there and you oversell and then under-deliver, it's hard to have a culture. If you under-sell and over-deliver, you now have people that have bought in and are with you because they say he's done everything he said he would do. He came through, and our place is hard now, And many of you coach at play, it's hard.

It's hard to be there. It's hard to play there. It's hard to compete there. Pat Riley gave me one of the greatest compliments about what we do. He said, your players are some of the best teammates in the NBA. He didn't say the best players. He said the best teammates. If you want to shoot 25 balls a game, you're not coming to Kentucky.

If that's what you want to do. And someone will tell them you're going to shoot 25 balls a game. and if that's what they want, that's where they're going. They're not coming with us because we're trying to help seven or eight families, not two. And so you have a culture, and I'll just give you one quick, Marcus Camby. Can anybody remember Marcus Camby? I coached some of you guys are so young in this room. He was my first, Jeff, seven-footer.

And so he grew from six-three to seven-foot. And even back then, you know, I... I'm not going to lie to you. So I went in and I said, what position do you want to play? And we needed to get this kid to really break through. And he said he wanted to be a shooting guard. So, you know, I had to be honest. And I told him okay.

And I said, but we do post up our shooting guards a lot. Can I tell you that? So the point of what we try to do is we don't get everybody because of how we recruit. But people say, how do you bring a team together so fast? Because they know coming in. They know coming in. They're not, this is going to be about everybody. And I want you all to eat.

It doesn't mean Malik Monk can't go for 47 or Jamal Murray can't go for 35 or Tyler Hewless or John Wall or whoever did it. They're just not going to average that. And so my belief is it starts right there in how you go about recruiting. Go ahead. I mean, I just think as a general manager, you guys have to put teams together that can gel and play well together. And you've been a part of your, you know, you've got Super Bowls to prove it three of them. So what was your process of roster construction? Well, you know, what I think what he does, which is remarkable, right? Everybody says he got all this talent on his team. But he really, he's one of the, I call Coach Cow and I've written this in the book and told I've done this on numerous occasions, not because he's here. He's the second greatest culture builder in. sports other than coach Norman Dale from Hoosiers. Norman Dale, you know, and really there's a thing called the law of threes, which is what he just

explained in his own way. The law of threes is whatever you take over a team, you have three groups of people. Now, he takes over a new team every year, so he has three groups of people. The people in group one will do anything you want them to do, right? They'll do anything you want them to do. The people in group two are undecided. And the people in group three usually are the most talented, but they value the name on the back more than the name on the front.

And you can't really make them happy. You can't make them happy. You could feed them the French laundry for lunch. You could have gold-plated toilets. They're never happy. So as a leader, instinctively, your reaction is if I win this guy over in group three, I'll win the team. When the reality of it is, is he loses the team. If you focus on the people in group one, which is what he just eloquently talked about, group

one, and you'll win everybody from group two over. And what was Jimmy Chitwood? Jimmy Chitwell was in group three. And Coach Dale told him, just go shoot. Shoot all your own. Meanwhile, everybody in the little town wanted Jimmy Chitwood to play. They were kissing his ass.

Coach Dale said, no, you stay over there. We'll win without your ass. And so everybody in group one he focused on. And what I would add to that is there's four areas of leadership, which he just explained one of the most important ones. It's called the first area is management of self, management of the plan. So you have a command of the plan, command of the meaning,

which you explain the plan. But what he just said there was command of trust. You got to, the players have to trust. what you say. If you make one mistake to a player, you lie to a player, whether as an executive or as a coach, they don't believe it, you lost a player. And players only trust people that'll be honest with them. So that's why. One other thing, I was, for you, young coaches, I was 20, 28 or 29, and when I went to a job, no one wanted UMass. And it was the losingest program in the decade of the 80s, not 80,

1983, for a decade. It was the fifth losingest, to be honest. out of 300 and however many programs. When I left to take the job a good friend of mine, Pat Nardelli, who I talked to two days ago, he gave me this. He was a businessman in our little town. And he said, you can have a bad deal with good people. Stuff happens. He said shit happens.

But you can never have a good deal with bad people. So whatever it smells like, whatever it looks like, run. You think I'm going to bring. bringing in this guy and I don't really like him and I don't really think he's the greatest, but I think he could really help us and we could be, no, you can't. And that becomes staff or players. The staff, the reason I've had success, I've had the best staffs. Some guys have gotten jobs.

Some guys have stayed. But I've had top to bottom. I've only had two secretaries in my whole career, two. and those people are the greatest people. When you get your job, you assist it. And I tell the AD is the same thing. You surround yourself with good people. I'm going to bring in this person because I think they can really help raise money,

but I'm not so sure of this guy. And I'm hearing some, okay, all right, now you really have issues. And then you've got to deal with stuff later that you didn't want to deal with. You can have a bad deal with good people. Stuff happens to us. Fate intervenes. An official's call. A guy gets hurt.

Ours is usually officials calls. But a guy gets hurt. Something happens in the game. Another guy gets hot on the other team. Fate, it happens. But bad people, it never... Don't kid yourself. They don't add enough to what they're going to take to work.

What are some things you look for? Let's say you have an opening on your staff. and you're saying, well, we value this, this, this, and this. What are some of those things you have to have in a distance? Well, first of all, you have to get by the box. You either have to have played for me or I have to know you somehow at my age. Because at my age, I'm just trying to say, before I leave, how many people can I help? And why wouldn't I help the people that I know that have helped us and been a part of us?

Joel is here. Joel would have never have gotten a Kentucky job, ever, except his dad. was my S-ID when I was at Wilmington. And I knew his dad. And I watched him and I said, hey, I'm going to, and I talked to him and said, why don't you come with us? His dad was really good to me. Guess what? Joel has a job.

Now, he better do better. He's going to be looking for another one, but I'm just teasing. But that's our former players. Then I say, in our family, who's out there and at Kentucky, it's a little different. They have to be able to do the job at Kentucky. I'm not like, I could say there are these guys in coaching, but there's no way he's ready for this job. Then I wouldn't do it.

One time, I had two openings. And I brought Josh Passenor and Orlando and Tiga in together because I wanted to see if they got along. So I made them come in together and I watched them. When I knew they got along, I said, you know what, I'm going to hire both of you. because your staff has to be their each other's PR machine. Each guy on the staff has got to promote the other guy.

You're each other's PR machine. And if you don't have that and there's any kind of separation, you're done. If one guy's more concerned, like we recruit, everybody recruits every kid. Because I'm not going to be sitting on the bench having him tell me play his guys, him tell me put in his guys. Oh, no. And at the end of the day, if we don't get any, somebody we don't get, it's on me.

Like, I went and saw Zion play a couple times, and I knew he was good. I didn't think he was this good. And they were saying, well, he's it. I said, he's undersized. Where do you play him? I don't want to play him in a four. He needs to be a three, but he can't, like, really shoot. How am I going to?

I didn't understand what the hell he was. And it wasn't my staff. It was me. And so at the end of the day, having guys that are together, having guys that are each other's PR machines that are promoting each other. And anywhere they go, they should be talking highly about each other on your staff. And if you don't do it, then you start it. You talk about your other guy when it comes back to him.

Yeah, Jim was really bragging on you, man. You must be doing a great job. That's how this should be working. But good people, hiring people that can get along, they can't get along. it's you don't have a staff. Yeah. What about you from a from an NFL standpoint building teams and coaching staffs. What do you what would you look for in the coaches to be a part of the staff? Well, you know, the thing for the head coach to me, it's all really I did this research project in 1996 for the Rams, which I never got paid for. It was the greatest project I ever did in my life.

They asked me to go and and really understand what a great coach is and what a great coach is really a great leader. And I was just mentioned it earlier and there's four areas of leadership. the command of the room, which means you come in with a plan. So you have a plan, here it is, you present your plan to the team. Then command of the message, which is you can explain your plan really clearly. Command of self, which means you're able to take criticism for yourself and discipline yourself and understand when you're wrong. And command of trust, which means you're consistent. You can be a jerk, but you've got to be a consistent jerk. Everything has to be consistent. And so when I went back and looked over coaches, guys that were really good in three

of those four areas were successful. Guys that were only good in two of those areas, had one good year, lost a year, one bad year, lost a year, and they ended up failing. So what I look for in a coach are those four areas. Do you have a plan? Can you explain your plan? Are you trustworthy? Can you admit you made a mistake? And that's really how you build a staff. In New England, when we started in Cleveland, we felt like the best way to build a staff was develop a staff. So everybody went through. We had a player procurement methodology, and we had a player development for the coaches. So when you look at Cleveland 95 and you see a bunch of those guys, whether it's Dimitrov, Pioly, you know, Kirk Ferens, all these coaches that have gone on to have great careers in the NFL, Ozzie Newsom, they all started out in the training program.

And so you learn how to become a coach, and that's how we taught it. So we wanted to develop talent from within, not talent from without. And that was our plan because it was easier to train a coach. By the way, that ring he's got on was from an offensive lineman who gave it to him, maybe. That's the biggest ring I've ever seen in my life. It's from 51. That's from 51. But, you know, it's interesting.

I went to the airport. My first, one of my first, I drove Bill Walshry out. It's one of the greatest jobs I ever had. But I was also the gopher. And so he sends me to the airport to pick up Sherman Lewis, who was the defense coordinator at Michigan State. And he says, pick up Sherman Lewis, bring him back to South. 7-11 Nevada Street, and I bring them back, and they interview them, we hire them as the running-back coach. So, you know, here I am, this young kid from New Jersey. I'm like,

what am I just, that guy was a cordial. I had him as a running-back coach. And Coach Walls, I asked him. One day I was driving him, I had enough guts to ask him. I said, coach, why would we hire a running-back coach, a defense court to be our running-back coach? Because he said, look, I'm looking for coaches that'll do what I need them to do on the offense. I don't need more ideas. And that is what really was the genesis behind how the Patriot That statement is how the Patriots or Cleveland started developing coaches. That line. Because if you train people the way you want them to be, then you don't have to retrain them.

It's hard to retrain coaches. It's hard to retrain a guy who's, look, I only watched three tapes of the last three games. And then it's different than basketball, I guess, I don't know. I only watch three tapes of the last games. I only do this. You got to retrain them. Whereas if you train them yourself, they end up thinking for themselves. So that's what we did.

I get a Larry Brown may be the best coach to ever coach this game. And I follow him. It's funny how I was on a football field with Bill Parcells. And he's telling me to walk with him. So he'd go, come on. And he watched both sides of the ball. And he would stop a practice and say, you know, you should have run wider. You didn't block.

And he said, and he's talking on the other end. That was Larry Brown. He could see all 10 guys. Most of us just watch what's happening on the ball. And you have to watch the tape to see what's going on around. Those guys have a vision that's like that. Second thing is, it's really funny. You said it reminded me.

He said, I hire people that I know love me. I'll teach him the rest. Think about that statement. He didn't care. I'll teach you what you need to know, but I need to know you love me. He needed that loyal guy that he wanted to be around that he knew. He never questioned whether they loved. do. And so that kind of brought it back.

New coach. So I'm thinking of assistants who become a head coach for the first time. It's harder to find the guy. Do you know who I hired my first time when I first got the job? The guys I met at five-star basketball camp because I had been around them for two weeks and that's who I hired. I said, Bruiser Flint, let's go. Billy Baino, let's go. I had at that time, John Robic, we all worked the camp together. And then I made them wear shirts and ties to every, because we looked like we were 14. We were all like 28, 24, 25. And, you know, you got like adults around us. And they're like, why are you making us wear a shirt and tie? Because we look 12. We've got to act like we're professional. But that's how I hired because I wanted to be comfortable. And we were so bad.

I said, I don't need to hire someone to help me coach. I'm going to screw that up. But we don't have any players, so it doesn't matter. We need everybody out connecting and trying to get some new guys. And the first two classes we had ended up being starters. And just you get your first job. I said, I don't need them to be better than Temple or West Virginia Ruckers. I just need them to be able to be a starter on their team. That's all.

They don't have to be better than their players. But if I get five or six guys that could start for anybody in this league, will be fine. And that was my mentality. How about I can remember that? You're bringing back some of the stuff since you're saying stuff. Well, you know, it's funny all great coaches are alike. I mean, like, I would listen to Larry Brown's press conferences, and I would learn more from what Larry said at a press conference after when he was at the 76ers, because I'm unfortunately a diehard 76. You have to work to practice. But he would, like, you know, he would talk about what he, the message.

Al Davis used to say this all the time. When you talk, talk to the media. You're not talking to the media. You're talking to three people. You're talking to the players. You're talking to the organization and you're talking to the owner. And everybody else is really irrelevant. And so what Larry was so good at doing was sending a message at that press conference to his players. I could see him sitting there with a piece of paper. Well, you know, we played like strangers today. We had six assists. You know, how can you win when you don't pass the ball? Well, he was telling Iverson, he was hogging the ball, but he never mentioned Iverson's name, right? It was brilliant. It was truly brilliant. And if you take that approach that this is when you're talking to the media, you utilize the media as your message to the team, you create the culture. Belichick's, you read Belichick's quote when Rob Grancowski retired. He never once calls the greatest tight end, the greatest tight end of the history of the game. He talks about him being a great teammate because that's Belichick's way of keeping his culture going and using the media to help him keep that culture going.

Coach, I know you wanted to open it up. I want to pause for a second and open up to you guys to. Any questions that may be top of mind before we keep going? Don't be afraid. I just said instead of just if anybody wants you, I'll give you, Mike will give you whatever you want from us. No? Okay.

Yeah, go ahead. Can you tell me how you evaluate your assistant coach? So I'll repeat it for the microphone. So the question is how he evaluates assistant coaches. Well, one of the things I do with my staff is before every game, I want each of them to give me a short scouting report. So I have one that John Robic does, which is we do not give scouting reports to my players because they don't have to worry about the other team.

I do. Let's worry about us. You worry about us. We'll teach you what you need to know. I don't have my team practice their plays. My managers become the other team, not my players. My guys have enough trouble remembering our stuff than trying to remember their stuff and our stuff. The other thing is I want my staff to give me a two-page.

So the reason is they're talking to you on the bench. Do they really know what the hell they're talking about? So give me a two-page so I know. Plus it gives me ideas. There'll be stuff in there that I say, you know, that's pretty good. And then I then trust them more, but you know what? To do that two-page thing, they're going to have to watch five or six tapes like I am. So now they're watching, I know they're watching tape.

I'm seeing how they're evaluating. And that's how I become, I judge them. The second thing is, I want guys that want to be in the gym and love the game. How am I going to get my team to love the grind if my guys don't want to be in there? So when I go in the office, if I go back in there at 10.30 at night and the lights are on, like we don't use our 20 hours a week. So they can be in there and grab a coach. Sometimes it's just players.

Sometimes it's a coach. Joel will go in the morning, grab somebody in before class, they go in the gym. I want guys that are there to develop players. The recruiting is it's how you survive. So as an assistant, you're not getting us involved in guys and you can't be there. So that's just a given. But the other side of it is develop guys. How about developing relationships?

If you think you try to take yourself and put yourself above these kids, you're done. You are done. They got to feel that they can walk in and be comfortable. They are not comfortable around me. They'll peek their head and hey, coach, and hope I don't say, come in here. Oh, shit. You know, they are not comfortable around me. They see me as something I'm not.

I'm from Moon Township, Coriopolis. I wasn't a great player. I was small, but I was slow. I mean, I played at Clarion University. I know who I am. I know where I came from. So, but they see me at something different, like, and the staff will say, Cal, you know, I said, look, that's why as an assistant, you got to be that guy, that they want to sit down, what they want to talk to, they want to open up to. But those are the things I look for.

If assistant, I don't need a bunch of head coaches. And if you were a head coach, you better be an assistant doing what an assistant does and really relating to kids. So that's how I would evaluate. And the guy that can really help develop the most, a guy that can really connect the most is the most valuable guy on my staff. It's funny the way you said, Al Davis used to say all the time, make the coaches think they're high school coaches, which is what you just said right there.

He wanted the position coaches to think they were in high school. Not as a demeaning way, but when you're a high school coach, you can't go get another player to come in. you can't go get some you know you can't change out you got to coach with what you have and you got to make that better so he was always telling me all the time make sure those coaches understand they're not the general manager of the team they're a high school coach and it's with kind of what you just said right there go ahead go ahead you're off clock from longby state how do you use your administrators to help reinforce and establish your culture how do you use your administrators to help reinforce and establish your culture um i've always had one um Mitch and i Mitch and I Mitch and I Barnhart's our athletic director. We don't talk day to day. He's got a big athletic department to run.

Dwayne Peevy and I talk every day, two times a day, maybe three times a day, whether it's, I just want to see what he's doing or what's out there. But I want them to be a part of what we do. And we tried to do the scheduling ourselves, and it just takes too much time. That guy would then just,

and then the schedule, So now you say, Dwayne, you be the point man on this, and then you come to me and I'll okay everything. But he's that way. I want him to also be able to sit down with staff and help him. Like if I'm trying to help someone get a head job, I'm saying, Dwayne, meet with him, sit down with them, give him that path. Who do you know? How do you know? Set him up with Mitch.

I'll try to do stuff that way. And he's someone that I don't ask for something unless I really need it. So if I really need something, I'm like, okay, we have to do this. And so, you know, I hate to go to Mitch with everything. And if Mitch needs me, he calls me. If I need him, I call him. But you have to have that guy, I believe. And he's got to be, again, a trustworthy guy because he's in your family now.

He's in the middle of what we got going on. Yep, go ahead. Wayne Sinkins, George Mason, University. Coach, what's the biggest difference from UMass, you got Dante Bright, you got, you know, those guys. He was a great player for us. You recruit them, you retain them. What's the difference now? Well, the biggest thing is that the biggest thing is that the environment, social media and all those things, the NBA, one-year players, has changed.

that these kids can make. You've got to respect that and respect the family. This is their chance. They may have come from as Dante generational poverty. And now this opportunity comes to them. You have to respect it. Back then it was all, we're trying to get you ready. It was three or four years.

Graduating players, making sure now it becomes, you have a lifetime scholarship. you're going to leave in good academic standing, or you don't have that lifetime scholarship. Our kids all leave in good academic standing because of that. Back then it was that fourth year. I only had, when I was at UMass, I think I had Lurow State four years.

I think Camby was the only one, and he left after three. I would love coaching four-year guys. Oh, do I miss that? I mean, sometimes I'm calling the current player's names for three years ago. I've been around them, five months. What do you think about that? Jim Nance said after Duke lost, this one and done thing doesn't seem to be working to win champions. Yeah, they said it was pretty good when

we won and they won. And then all of a sudden it was the best thing ever. Everybody, but try it. And then some people tried it and figured out this thing was really hard. Wait a minute. But you don't know. I mean, it's the ebbs and flow. Football went from six, what was it, three yards in a cloud of dust to Bill Walsh spread in the field. And then Fran Tarkinton never throwing over seven yards, and then it became Daryl and Monica throwing 60 yards. I mean, it was just basketball. You remember when it was at Twin Towers? Do you understand the NBA is shooting 30 to 43s a game?

Where did that, what the hell? And then I had a friend of mine, who's a former governor of our state, say, you know, you got to catch up with this cow, because my team shoot 23s a game. You know, look at this three. It's a very value. I said, gov, you need. makers, not just shooters. Coach, I wanted to ask you a question from a team-building standpoint,

which I find with the one and done. Like, how hard is it from a team? I know it's hard culture-wise, but, you know, when you start to put together your team and you say, if I get this player, I need this, this, and this to go along with it, how hard is that? Like, if you get player X,

like, when I watch Duke or I see a talented team, I don't see a true team. You know, there are three talented players. and they're a great team. But to me, the teams that are in the fours, they're a true team. How do you differentiate that? Well, I don't know.

The coaches in here, I just recruit the best guys I can get. And if they're big guys, they're big, if they're guards or guards. This year coming, we may play five out. I'm already starting to think, we may play five out. Well, you're saying, well, you've never played five out. I know, but it may be the best thing for the team I have next year. So we may play five out.

one year we went dribble drive exclusively. We didn't run anything but dribble drive. And I was just with Greg Campi who took the dribble drive to Oakland, listen to me, made it better than I made it. And now he this year coming up says, I got two big guys, so I'm not going to use it as much. So I think most of us in this room get the best players we can get and then try to figure out how they play. But they got to be able to share. They got to be able to understand the grinding.

of this, that there is competition, that there's competition within, but the real competition is the other teams, that everybody that deserves to play is going to play. I mean, for me, it all comes back to the recruiting. How are you present? I'll be honest with the families. I tell them in the home. We can talk basketball in this home right now, but your son comes to me. We will never talk basketball.

You're not calling me about basketball. Because if I talk to you, I got to talk to them. And then when they hear it, now I got 10 families. They're going to talk to? I'm trying to coach these guys. You ready? In six months, I don't have time for bullshit. I have no time for it.

I get the Heisman. You know what the Heisman is after a game? The families are all over there. I walk out. I give them the Heisman. Hey, baby, good to see it. And I walk. And it's not disrespectful because they know.

No. No parent has ever called me to ask about, you know, you play now. If the kid's struggling, if he's academically doing something, he's doing something off the court, absolutely. But you're not talking to me about how I'm playing, how many shots he's getting. I will never talk to you. But again, it comes through the recruiting. And I'm telling you, if you talk to one parent and you think that parent ain't going to walk into that family room, I told him, yeah.

You watch how much. And then that kid shoots more of that game. Good luck. Now you've got nine parents at your door knocking. Hello. You know, that means if I go at him, he's going to shoot more or play more. That's all. You've got to stay away from that one there.

How did we even get on that? Good question. You know, it fascinate team building is the hardest thing because, you know, you have tight end in football. It's so different. You know, you need certain things. And when you're recruiting, it's hard because we can draft in the NFL, right? You just have to recruit. So you got to take what the, as Parcells would always say, we've got to take what they give us.

You know, and so it's just a little, and then you add culture to it. To me, it's the hardest challenge. I think mentorship's really important for people like the guys in this room. And we have a mutual friend, George Ravling. We're just talking about them in the back. What's somebody like Coach Rav for both you guys and how that can maybe apply to those in the room to say, this is why somebody like that and others are so beneficial as you're building your coaching career. I would tell everybody in the room, who's your kitchen cabinet? Who is it? Who do you go to when things

aren't going well? And it changes over your period of your life. When you're young, you're going to have these guys. Some of them may be another assistant, maybe an older assistant. Some of them may be your high school coach. And all of a sudden you get a head job and you start as an athletic director. I would tell you the same thing. Who is your kitchen cabinet? Who do you talk to? Who can help you when things aren't going good? Who can step you back when you need to be stepped back? Who can you listen to?

I mean, I've had, you know, Ken Blanchard, anybody ever read the one-minute manager and he was a UMass guy, so he's been there for me from day one. But I had Bob Rottella. Any golfers in here? You ever hear of Bob Rottella? He came, Bob Markham, my athletic director when I was at UMass, said someone you need some help with your team we had guys on the team I had a kid named Dana Dingell that I couldn't get the kid to talk like he wouldn't yes no yeah so I brought in

Bob Rottella sports psychologist that was back in 92 93 and he started with my team and all of a sudden we took off and he talked to me about how I could get through to my players better. And one day, Dana Dingell came in my office, knocked on the door, and did not stop talking for 30 minutes. I couldn't believe it. I just said, he just talked to me. It was a senior year.

More in the last 30 minutes than he did over four years. So those kind of mentors that can help you, decision-making, you're going to have to make decisions. You better run it by somebody. You're going to, let me tell you, a coach, the worst thing for all of us, we make big-time decisions when we're still emotional. Every one of us, if you coach, and maybe you need AD, you'd have to tell me. But when you're done coaching, most cases, I don't want to use the term pissed, mad,

I'll take that job, but grass is green. Well, you're cutting grass on both sides, just so you know that. And you're making an emotional decision because it's when you have to make. Your season just ended. You're raw. You're maybe mad. You don't know about this. So somebody can tell you, stop.

Step back. Tell me why you're even thinking about this. As you could tell, I've had this many times in my career where I'm like, I should. What? Are you out of your mind? Told one guy, I want to climb another mountain. He said, climb down the mountain you're on and climb back up. But what's wrong with you?

So those, that kitchen cabinet, I don't know who it is for you, but it better be more than just one guy and it'll change as you go along in this profession. You know, Coach Rav has been an unbelievable mentor to me. I mean, you know, as a basketball fan, I lived in Los Angeles for two years when I wrote the book, and I was able to go to breakfast or lunch with them, and Coach Cowell talked about reading. I mean, this man reads more than any human being alive. And he encouraged me. He told me from the time his best year,

years of his life was when he's from 60 to 1981. And if anybody of you don't know the story, Coach Ravling owns the I Have a Dream speech from Martin Luther King. He happened to be on the stage that day in 1963 when Dr. King gave the speech. He was a security guard and went over to Dr. King after the speech and said, could I have that speech, Dr. King? And he gave it to him.

And Coach Ravis held that speech. And he's been the most unbelievable mentor to me, teaches me something every single day. He's curious at 81 years old. He has an incredible newsletter that I would encourage everybody to read because you'll learn something every single day. Henry Kissinger in his memoirs, the former Secretary of State, says he said this about Washington.

When you go to Washington, you borrow the intellectual power you bring and you can't renew it once you're there. And when you're a coach or an athletic director at a high level, it's hard to renew your intellectual power. And what we don't realize is we take an hour to go work out a day. You should take an hour to read every day. because the job's going to change and you're going to need some way to adjust to the change.

And we think taking an hour to read is taking the lazy way out, it's really enhancing your mind. And that's what Coach Rav does for me. I mean, he's made me a better person. I wish I would have known him 20 years ago. So I can't say enough about him. I would tell all you young coaches in here, go to his website, tell him you want him to be your mentor,

and he'll do it. And he'll be invested in your career. I mean, the guy, he is, you know, for me personally, unbelievable. I mean, we became friends and, like, he's invested in what I do. So I would tell you, search out those guys. And here's what happens when you do it. And throughout my career, I've had people, you know, from Larry Brown to different guys. But they then become part of your success in that they're watching and learning and helping

and they're invested in you. I would suggest everybody here. Even some of you young ADs or associate ADs, who are the guys you're talking to? Who is your kitchen cabinet? Who are your mentors? Because those guys will work hard. You said you've written that you look for people

who look at adversity as a challenge and failure as a learning opportunity. There's guys probably in here that are in between jobs. Their head coach got fired, so they're sitting like what's going on. So everyone's got moments of adversity. They have low moments. What advice do you give to people in those situations as they're looking for the next potential opportunity?

We evaluate players. When I evaluate a player, I want to know how does he look when things aren't going well, when he's at his worst? What's he look like as a player? I don't need to know when he makes 10 out of 11 shots. What he's going to be? I need to know he's two for 11. What's he look like now? What's he add to the game? Or does he just take away from the game? And I would tell all of us the best moments for all of us are when things, I always say this. Coaching, when it's going good, it's easy.

Give me four games in a row you lose. Give me when it looks bleak as hell. Who's the coach now? And I would tell an athletic director the same thing. Your football team struggles. This is struggling. Everything's fundraising is going down. Now I want to see what kind of AD are you?

It's easy when things are going good. Everybody's coming to you. You're unbelievable. All right, now it's going bad and you're up on the stage by yourself. You're looking for friends. How do you coach now? How do you lead now?

You know, the thing I'll tell you, too, I got fired in New Jersey. And just so you know, you become like, you think you know what everybody's thinking. Like, I know this thinking and this guy's thinking. So my wife and I go,

to dinner and we sit down and there's a guy like a table over and he looks at his wife and he leans over and he whispers and then he laughs he laughed and I saw it I told my wife I can't believe this shouldn't come out to dinner so then he laughs again and then I'm like I'm gonna go over and smack this guy okay so now as the dinner winds down he stands up and he starts walking to me well okay Let's see what we got here. And I start shifting my chair. And he comes over and he says, I want to tell you, I gave up my season tickets, what you did here in New Jersey.

I don't care. You did it right. You did it with good. I'm done with them. My wife's like, yeah, you really can read minds. I mean, so I would tell you this. You know, you have issues. People have their own issues.

They're not worried about your issues. You think everybody knows. What's going on in your life, they don't. There's no reason to even worry about it. It's just how do I get restarted and what I'm trying to do? What's my next step to where I'm trying to go and how am I building? If things went sour, go ask the AD and the president, you know, how do you really feel about this?

How can I make myself better, hardest thing to do? Tell coaches you get fired. You better go make amends with that AD and that president because you won't believe this. The next job you try to get? they're calling them. That's who they're calling. So you better walk right in there,

swallow it and say, how do I do this? But I tell you, this life, the ups and downs of what we do, fate intervenes, good and bad. I've had so many good things happen to me in my life. I don't know why I'm at Kentucky. I don't deserve to be at Kentucky.

All the stuff that's happened for me, I think it was my mother. My mother was a pay-it-forward person, like give everything away, like you come home, I mean, where's my sweater I gave it to Jim? He needed it more than you. You know what?

That's my only sweater I have. But sometimes I wonder why. And I would imagine many of you. Think about us sitting in this room. You know, the opportunities we have. And then the opportunities we have to change lives that will be a ripple going forward. If you change that kid, his family and all that, you know, we are all blessed in this room, all of us. We have a mutual friend, Ryan Holliday, who wrote a book called The Obstacle as the Way,

meaning viewing, yep, viewing opportunities or adversity as an opportunity. How have you implemented that through the course of your career when you see the ups and downs? Now in the media, you've said things at times if you have, you know, if you talk enough, you're going to say something that's wrong and people criticize you for it. How have you been able to bounce back from those situations when you've been wrong or you've been fired or something bad has happened? Well, you know, I think the number one thing, you know, like every guy gets a new coach and job. right? What's the first thing everybody says, you've got to take the next 10 days and you have to have your first 100 day plan to show the AD, you know what you're going to do in the first 100 day plan? Well, I think that's the dumbest idea I ever heard. Like, seriously, you've got to, if you don't figure out why you got the job and take 100 days and go backwards and figure out why you, you know, you're not so gifted that you got the job and the guy who got fired is ungifted. So you should take 100 days and figure out walking his shoes and figure out the mistakes that went along the way. Because the only way you're going to correct them is, you know, is if you learn them.

And it's the same thing in all the mistakes we've made. Some of the best things we did in Cleveland when we started our whole program, which is now the Patriot Way, where all the mistakes we made, mistakes you make in your career. You know, I've made a lot of mistakes. I confused jobs that I could make a difference in with jobs that I can only grow from.

So there's two kind of jobs. You can only have a job you can grow from or jobs you can make a difference in. He's in a job you can make a difference in. If I worked for him, I'm in a job I can only grow from. So I got to understand that. And if you don't get that right, you can make mistakes. So you learn those things as you go through it.

You know, Al Davis used to ask me every time we got on a team playing, he would come over. I'd have to go over to him. But he'd say, do you know why we won today? And then he would say, do you know why we lost today? And if I gave him some bad answer, well, you know, the ref made a bad call or he would just MF me to death. He wanted to know really why we won, why we lost, and put it on paper. And the same thing happens in New England. In New England, they do an autopsy after every single game.

Why they won, why they lost. And if you don't do that in your career, you can't make any changes. You can't get any better. And so you have to do that. You know, every single game, you know, Belichick will go back three years later and look at, you know, the notes from Seattle. Why do we lose to Seattle and Seattle? Those notes in that Seattle game that we played them in 2013 helped us win 2014. And it's the same thing in your career.

If you don't take stock of it every single day. So that's kind of how I've done it, is just try to, every obstacle you have to use to your advantage and learn from it. And you'll become a better person because the guy that's perfect, he's never had any challenges in his life. He's never had any challenges because we're all going to make mistakes. It's the mistakes that we grow from is what makes us better. Do you, um. Is there any other questions? Yeah.

Anybody have anything? I got one. Yeah, go ahead. Coach this, how much longer do you think you want to coach? It is with the new kids, the generation. How much energy do you have left to eat? So you've seen I've aged here lately, huh? You know, and I'll tell the room,

the thing that this is what made me feel good about what we're doing in the culture we created. Kentucky wants me to finish my career in Kentucky. They've been talking about it for a while. What would that look like to finish your career? And my thing is, I will not coach if I'm cheating these kids. If I can't bring the energy that you're talking about, then I won't coach anymore. I'll be done.

If I'm not going to sit there, I don't even know what my record is. I know it's not bad, but I don't know what it is. I don't care about that. I'm coaching because I'm looking at another wave of kids. I say all that, and what they've done, is that I can stop coaching and then to a certain period of time I could stay at the university.

That's what this, whatever they called it, lifetime, and then they declare you dead in two years. I mean, it's, it is just if I, we still want you here if you stop coaching. And that was what I said, but we had talked about it

and they wanted to talk about leverage. My leverage has always been the job I've done. It's not someone else talked to me or an team. And then why would you talk to everybody? Because I would like to help, if I don't do so, I want to help somebody I know. If I'm talking to NBA people, I'm going to be able to talk to that owner, that GM, and help my players. If I'm talking to an AD and I don't, yeah, it's just not going to be me. But I may be able to now have a good enough relationship, help somebody else that I want to

help get the job. So this whole thing we do is about relationships. The whole thing is relationships, recruiting relationships. Well, this guy helps you that guy. Yeah, I got many guys that didn't help me because I didn't have a relationship with. Do we talk about those guys or just a guy that whether you were Dean Smith or John Thompson or whoever you were, there were people that if they had a player, they were playing for them. That's how this thing goes. So I don't know, but I can tell you I will not retire on the job. I will not do that. And if I don't feel I have the energy, this team gave,

can you tell like I feel younger this year? Last year I literally would have shuffled in here. You would have thought I was Tim Conway. You young guys have no idea who I'm just talking about. None. The older guys know what I'm talking about. But I would have shuffled in here. This team made me younger, made me feel younger,

I enjoyed every day. They didn't fight. You know when they fight you? It's hard. So I would just tell you that I'm going to try to just keep helping kids and see how long this goes. But I'm not a guy. I thought I'd be done at age 60. I really did.

I didn't think I'd coach longer than that. Now I think I'm going to go to them 80. I don't, I'm just saying that. I'm not. But, you know, if I last a few more years, good. If I don't and I can't do it. You know, what if LeBron called you and said, I can get to 20 million a year? Not doing it.

I watched an NBA game the other day. And again, Pat Riley sat with a friend of mine and was critiquing my coaching and say, he is coaching his bench. He is coaching real time, correcting real time. Something happened. He told my buddy, he's taking him out. You watch. And I took him out, and he'll correct him, watch him.

he's going to coach him, and he'll put him in the next two minutes. Two minutes later, I put the guy back in. You can't do that in the NBA. You're not doing that. Film study, I don't mean to interrupt. Film study, I had some NBA guys watching us. I'm not cussing, yelling, screaming, but we're correcting. Do it again, and we're correcting.

He said, well, you can't do that now anymore. But you could do it when you were Larry Brown, when you were Pat Riley, when you, and Pat Riley said, that's how I coached. Well, the league has changed. And so I'm happy where I am. It's funny. Belichick and I are at Auburn's Pro Day. And we're going to Georgia's Pro Day three days later.

So we drive up and we're going to get a hotel room in Athens and we can't get a hotel room. And I'm like, what the hell is going on in Athens? We can't get a hotel room. Well, Kentucky basketball is playing in Athens. So we pull into town and we finally finagle with a hotel room. And he's like, you want to go to the game tonight? We said, yeah, sure, we'll go.

Yeah, let's go. So we go to the game. Now, we sit, Barclays at the game. It's a big game. And so you've got Devin Booker. You had a great team. So you're undefeated this year. So we sit across the court from coach.

Don't know coach at all. And Belichick's watching him coach and watching him coached the hell out of his team. And, like, coaching him. And he's like, I thought people say he doesn't coach. You know, we're just... I roll out balls, guys. It's all I do. And it was so impressive.

You know, here's the guy. greatest coach of all time, Bill Belichick, watching him coach and admiring him coaching. To me, it was great. And, you know, because you sit there and you see, I can remember, Booker took a bad shot. He came right off the court. You, you know, and like today, you're not allowed to yell at anybody, as I understand. But I don't call me back anymore. I thought it was great. I loved it. Yeah, go ahead. One last. Yeah. Just a quick question. Do you have a feel, I mean, if someone came to every you and said, coach, I want you to win it all.

Do you have a feel if the one and done model increases your percentages to do that versus players that stay with you multiple years? It depends on how good those players that I have. If I have the best players, we're going to win the national title. The year I had the best players, we won the national title. The year we didn't, when I had all that team you're talking about, we had a five-point lead, a couple things happened. That's what's tough with this thing. That team should have won it,

and we had probably three or four guys that were one. We were 38 and 1. And that was with 1. So it all depends on, like if normal situation, if his guys are better than my guys, he's probably winning. If my guys are better than his guys, then I'll feel I'm winning.

I mean, it's, so I don't play that, but would I rather coach four-year guys? Absolutely. What am I dumb? I mean, this thing is like fast moving, no time. Then any of you that are coaching freshmen, don't you think by mid-season they kind of start losing it a little bit? Because their high school season's over. Their high school season ended in February.

We still got to go till April. These dudes are like, we're still practicing? Yeah, we got about 12 games left. What? So it's hard. And then you've got to get them and fresh legs, fresh minds at the end of it. It's harder. The other guys already know, but I just, whatever happens, we'll play it.

The NBA takes high school kids, all right, then we'll figure out what we do. I worry about the G League and the NCAA cooperating with the G League because the G League is trying to fill their teams. So instead of taking seven or eight high school guys, they may want to take 50. high school guys. You know what my problem is? Why would we ever diminish as a society diminish education? Why would we do that?

So we're encouraging kids as ninth and tenth graders. Don't worry about academics. You're going to go to the G league and have a chance to make it. Really? Really? They've moved up 10 in five years. It's not that.

So while we're going to make it different, we're going to be more, our kids have lifetime scholarships. If they fail, they come back and they finish up. But you know why they can do that? Because the NCAA forces kids as ninth and tenth graders to get their academics together or you're not coming to college. Well, these kids are done. And if you don't mind me talking, who is that predominantly going to be? There you go. It's going to be African American kids, you ready, where we have the highest graduation rate in the history of our sport the last two years African American. We're going to blow that up.

So the G League can get high school players? What in the hell are we thinking about as a society and the NCAA working with them to do it? What in the world? I don't understand. Explain it to me. Are we saying none of them belong in college? So let them all go to the G League. What if they don't make it?

Well, they chose to do it. You encouraged them to do it. You dangled carrots, $100,000. Great. Half go to taxes. Last one year. and you're unemployed, what you're going to do now? You're going to become an actor?

What the hell are you going to do now? Don't get me started. You have anything to add to that? It was awesome. One final question for like a couple minutes. We're all working on developing the skills needed to do kind of what you've done and what you've done. What are the piece of advice you'd say, if you look at all the successful coaches that you've

spent time around assistants, other head coaches, what are some of the commonalities you've among those who have sustained excellence. Curious minds. They don't have a single playbook. They do what they have to do. And I would say athletic director is the same thing. The sport moves. What's my head coach look like?

I may think it's this, but the whole thing has changed, and now I need this. The second thing I would tell you, they're about other people. If they're about themselves, it's hard to follow that general up the hill when he's running and you know he's all about himself.

But if he's about you, they'll fight like, crazy for it. They're wired and driven to work. They love the grind. They love practice more than the games. They literally love practice more than the games. The games become a chess match. Sometimes they get in a way of having fun. And lastly, they're smart. Please, I'm not in that category. I was the first Prop 48 coach that they let in. I had to sit out my first year. So I'm not that guy but they that those would be when I think of Larry Brown and other guys that I work for that you know are the best that I've seen or I've been around yeah I

would say divergent and thought you know everybody thinks coach Walsh invented the West Coast offense it was a creative thing it really was that it was divergent coach Cowell's talked about being divergent this whole conversation about figuring out what his team needs to do to play most coaches are that are divergent and thought always win passion I mean the Patriots win a Super Bowl when you walk in that building today in April, there's not one thing that tells them they win a Super Bowl. They don't measure anything by what they win.

It's always the next year. You know, Vince Lombardi has a great saying. The greatest reward for doing is the opportunity to do more. That's all Belichick cares about doing more. And so I think great coaches just care about doing more. They don't care about the corner suite. They don't care about how much money they make. They care about really just the game.

And I think those are the elements that really make a great leader. And you have to be divergent, and you have to care about the game, not about the perks that come with it. Love it. Great stuff, guys. Guys, give it up for Michael Embardy. Coach Sean Calfordy. Thanks, Coach.

I really enjoyed that conversation with Mike and Coach Cowell onstage live in front of an audience of college basketball coaches and athletic directors. I found it to be a challenge, however, one that I was happy to be a part of. If you enjoyed me releasing an episode like this of a conversation where I host an event. Let me know.

I would love to hear if I should release these more frequently because I do them from time to time. Send me an email, Ryan at learningleader.com. Let me know what you think. The good things, the bad, and everything in between. Your feedback means a lot to me. I value the listeners of this show. I found I'm very proud of this audience of you

and all of what you are doing. So I'd love to hear from you. Email me, Ryan at learning leader.com. And we can continue this dialogue as we both progress. Thank you for continuing to give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. I will forever be grateful. All right. Talk with you next week.

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