The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 318: Clark Kellogg - How To Take Control Of Your Personal Development

Episode Date: July 7, 2019

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk Full shownotes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com #318: Clark Kellogg - How To Take Control Of Your Personal Development *This episode was recorded live in front of a 200 person audience in Dayton, Ohio at the Sonny Unger Memorial Banquet. Clark Kellogg serves as one of the the premier voices in college basketball.  He works for CBS Sports. In 1997, Kellogg joined CBS Sports full-time as a studio/game analyst for college basketball coverage and was one of three in-studio hosts for March Madness.  In March 2010, Kellogg played a game of H.O.R.S.E. against U.S. President Barack Obama. The game, called "P.O.T.U.S." for the occasion, was won by Obama. Prior to that, Clark was an All-American at Ohio State University. In 1982, Kellogg declared for the NBA draft after his junior year of college and was a 1st round draft pick (8th overall) of the Indiana Pacers. In his first season, he was selected as a member of the NBA All-Rookie Team. Converse signed him to an endorsement deal, to release his own Converse "Special K" sneaker. Notes: Take control of your own development - This is YOUR responsibility.  That's your property.  Be intentional about growing and getting better and improving.  It's not just the big things.  It's the small things.  Who are you associating with?  How are you impacting them?  Who do you want to be?  There are a lot of distractions, there will be bumps, headwinds... Own your development." Control the controllables: your attitude, your effort, your faith. The most effective leaders are "others centered." This is a distinct and intentional process to help elevate others. Mindset: The battlefield for a lot of our challenges is in our own mind. Attitude impacts how we move forward. "Never major in minor things." Most of life's disappointments are not major in the context of the bigger picture. Don't make mountains out of molehills. Focusing on just one sport versus playing multiple sports. Growing up with a dad who was a policeman in Cleveland, OH. Advice to parents -- Expose your children to a variety of opportunities and support their passions Needs to be an interest and a desire on your kids part Having athletically talented kids (son played college basketball and professionally.  A daughter who plays college volleyball). Focus on fun and fundamentals: If you have an aptitude to go to the higher levels as you get older, then focus Discussed why he went to Ohio State -- Clark was a top three player in America at the time. The intensity of the rivalry with Indiana and playing against Bobby Knight What it was like getting a show named after him from Converse The makeup of a great coach: A passion for the role of leading people A willingness to adapt and adjust to the changes in the game and personalities on the team An effective communicator -- What you desire and what needs to be done Set the tone of humility of accountability Genuine -- They are themselves -- "Players can pick up on phonies quickly" This establishes trust "Are they getting better because you've been their coach?" -- That's the question a coach should always ask themselves A coach should always be developing their players What to look for in a teammate? Consistency of attitude and effort "Don't want the volatile person who is up and down.  I want consistency." Being able to accept criticism and coaching Able to constructively criticize others in a positive way "Who you are should not fluctuate based on where you are.  There should be a consistency in who you are.  That's something that should be worked on and you should be intentional about it.  Authenticity is powerful and impactful." The moment of having his career cut short (only 26 years old) because of a knee injury: "It was brutal initially, but came to peace with it after having multiple surgeries and realized I couldn't play anymore." Starting the next career -- TV broadcasting Humbling self and starting at Cleveland State as an analyst.  Back to the basics, starting from the bottom "I didn't become good at basketball right away.  If I'm going to do this well, I need to start where I need to start.  I got the reps.  Radio was great training.  You have to be fairly quick." The importance of having mentors and being a mentor for others "How do I become excellent at this thing I'm interested in?" "You need to be unique, but you need to be you."  You must be authentic. "Everyone can relate to food."  Use food analogies in basketball.  Using your personality as part of your craft to be relatable. Working with Charles Barkley: "It's exactly as it appears.  Charles is a personality, successful businessman, and very smart." Playing basketball at the White House with President Obama -- Losing to him in P.O.T.U.S How Larry Bird was the best trash-talker Clark played against How Clark prepares for a broadcast: "I'm consistent in the process to be ready in the moments as they unfold." Visit team's practices, review notes from prior year, watch a lot of games on TV, chart each game watched -- "You remember things better when you write it down.  I'm always taking notes when I watch games." Who are you associating with? Who do you want to be? What are you doing to be that? Live a life of gratitude. Salt water and fresh water can't come from the same spring. You cannot be thankful and hateful at the same time. Be grateful for what you have while striving to improve. Excellent leaders = Be "others" centered.  "Others" focused.  They want to help elevate others. Be available and giving of yourself to others.  Help mentor people earlier in their career. Good habits are hard to break.  Build good habits.  

The one thing that I often make sure I try to encourage young people to do and think about is owning your development. That's your property, how you grow and who you become. And you have to be intentional about owning that and intentional about growing and getting better and improving. And it's not always in the big things, it's really in the small things. Who are you associating with? how are you impacting those that you're around but it comes back to who do you want to be and what are you doing to be that own your growth and development real quick before we get to this episode i want to let you know that we have opened up tickets for our once a year personal excellence workshop we did this last year

and received incredible reviews so we wanted to do it again this year but make it even better in addition to the topics that I personally teach on, I have reached out to the subject domain experts within my network to be with us in the room and share their expertise. Things like how to harness your personal and professional flywheel to build an incredible career. Secrets from a professional keynote speaking coach. How to become a learning machine. How to utilize the mindset of a professional athlete in the business world and so much more. This workshop is ideal for you if you want to interact with intellectually curious and interesting people.

If you want to accelerate your personal and professional growth, if you have an open mind and are not afraid to be challenged. And if you are currently leading a team or have a desire to at some point in your future, for more details, go to ryanhawk. This event is intentionally kept small so the experience, is intimate, engaging, and interactive. For more details and to get your ticket, go to ryanhawk.me. Welcome to the Learning Leaders Show.

I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text learners to 4-4-222. In order to join tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world, receive mindful Monday updates, what I'm reading, watching, thinking about, and the potential to become part of my book launch team. text learners to 4422. Now on tonight's featured leader, this was a fun one as it was recorded in front of a few hundred people in Dayton, Ohio at the Sunny Unger Awards banquet. My featured leader is Clark Kellogg, All-American basketball player at Ohio State University, drafted eighth overall by the Indiana Pacers, once played horse, or as they called it, POTUS, with President

Obama, and he lost, and he now is the lead college basketball studio analyst for CBS Sports. A few of the topics that Clark and I discussed. What it means to never major in minor things and how to develop the proper mindset for this. Then what the most effective leaders in Clark's life all have in common, then how to take control of your own development. gentlemen, I think you'll get a lot out of this one with Clark Kellogg. Grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, where he was Mr. Basketball as a senior. Got a scholarship to go play at Ohio State, where he was an all-

yes, where he was an All-American, first round draft pick, eighth overall by the Indiana Pacers, where he played for a few years and then transitioned to a life as the premier voice of college basketball working as a broadcaster for CBS. Please welcome to the stage. Clark Kellogg. So, man. You ready to roll? Yeah, ready to go.

Let's do it. Well, I'm excited to have you here. This is cool to get a chance to have dinner with you and then to sit up here in front of so many accomplished people. To get it started, you grew up in Cleveland. And one of the things that was a little bit surprising to me is that I figured you'd be a guy who played all the sports growing up. Yet you went against the grain and actually specialized at a young age

in the sport you love, which I learned. your interview with President Obama around age of 10. So talk about that. Your upbringing in Cleveland and why you decided to focus strictly on basketball to get started. Well, you know, I enjoyed football as an eight or nine-year-old. My dad was a policeman in Cleveland for over 40 years. And way back in the 70s and even up until the early 80s, the Police Athletic League, Powell, was in existence in a lot of neighborhoods and cities across the country.

and my first organized sports experience was playing football for a police athletic league team. But I jammed a sweep as a defensive end. Saw Stars was dizzy and never went back to football after that. And basketball became my sport of choice. And I was eight or nine years old when I first played organized basketball again with the Police Athletic League. My dad was coaching the team, and I had a much better experience on the hardwood

than I did on the gridiron and fell in love with the game. Eight slept and drank it. And really, it fit me well. So I specialized my high school coaches when I got to Cleveland St. Joseph where the football coaches were always tracking me down. You look like you'd be a good...

Oh, you'd love to be out there on a Friday night. I know. I'm saying that. High school football. As a quarterback, yeah. No thanks. As a quarterback, I'd be saying, I need you to play tight-in and run down the middle of the fields. That's exactly what our high school coach used to always say.

But I love basketball, and that was where my heart and my passion was. And I enjoyed the other sports as a spectator, recreationally. But for me, basketball is what I wanted to do from an organized competitive standpoint early on. We have a lot of parents here, kids that are going to be parents someday. what do you think? Like, what advice do you give to them? They want to, not only have you had an accomplished career, but your kids have as well. They've been good athletes, played in college, scholarships, one playing overseas right now. What advice do you give to them? Do you say, yeah, play them all, or you know what, just play basketball or just play football, or what's your advice to them on when

it comes to parenting? Well, my advice to parents of kids that are involved in sports and even other extracurricular activities is to really expose your children to a variety of things, allow them to determine where their passion might be, and then support them in those endeavors. In terms of whether you specialize or not, I think it's beneficial to play multiple sports as long as there's an interest and a desire to do so. If there's not, then there should be no pressure to do anything athletically. as a youngster. How was it for you with your, you had Nick playing, he followed, he played at OU,

which I'm an OU grad, so I remember that run they made in an NCAA tournament, which you had some great moments on TV. How was it like for him, a guy playing the same sport? What was the up in the like that? Well, you know, Nick's favorite sport up until probably eighth grade was soccer. Really? He was a high-level soccer player before he chose basketball. And I tell him to this day, and he agrees with me that had we lived in Europe,

Nick would have probably chosen soccer because it has more cachet there than it does here. Basketball and football are the preeminent sports here that youngsters typically fall in love with and become enamored with, whereas in Europe and other parts of the world, it could very well be soccer that would be the preeminent sport. But he played high-level soccer through his junior year

in high school and then ultimately wanted to play college basketball and dedicated his senior high school season to basketball. So I was excited for him to enjoy both sports, to excel in both. And there was pressure as a ninth grader for him to choose one or the other from his peers, from coaches.

And my wife and I simply said, as long as you enjoy playing, don't let anyone else influence your decision. We're going to support you, whatever you decide to do. And when he chose, he didn't want to play his senior year and wanted to get off to a better start in basketball senior year,

we were all for that because it was his decision. And it was interesting because that year, they had been to the final four in soccer the two prior years, his sophomore and junior year and came close to winning it. The year he didn't play, they won it at Cruz Stadium. And we were there. He and I were there, and he went down on the field with his teammates. But it was a little bittersweet because he had,

but he was fine with his. decision because he had never been able to get off to a great basketball start because of the overlap in soccer but I think kids should play what they enjoy and it should be age appropriate around fun and fundamentals and as you advance in your sport if you have an aptitude and an ability to go to the higher levels then that's when you might consider specializing but I think it's important to enjoy participating and as you move forward if you If there's a desire to take it to another level, then when it's age appropriate in the right time, then I think a youngster and his parents should try to make the best decision for that young lady or young man.

Yeah. So I said you're Mr. Basketball. You could have probably wanted to anywhere you wanted to play college basketball. You chose to go to Ohio State. What led you to make that choice and to go play there? Well, it was a combination of factors. I'm a Cleveland native and Ohio native. The team at that time consisted of all pretty much.

Ohio guys, Herb Williams and Calvin Ranji, Carter, Scott, and Jim Smith. Jim Smith was from my hometown of Cleveland. I was highly recruited. I was considered one of the top three prospects in the country in 1979. Had an opportunity to go on six official visits, but only took four. And those places were Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Kentucky. All were pretty top-notch academic institutions, they were reasonably close to my hometown of Cleveland. They had outstanding basketball programs, and as I visited those places, I enjoyed all of the players that I would potentially play with. But ultimately, it came down to the power of Ohio State and the alumni base, the network, and the nation that really impressed upon me the benefits of being a graduate of Ohio

State and also having a chance to do something special with some special guys on the basketball court that also were Ohio native. So that ultimately led me to choosing the Buckeyes, and I don't regret it. One I owe time. It has been one of the greatest decisions. You've got a lot of Ohio State fans here. And you've chosen to live in Columbus and stay there. What do you think of the rabid fan base Ohio State?

Oh, you know, it took some adjusting because I lived in Indianapolis. I was drafted by the Pacers in 82. and we lived, we made our home there, my wife and I, we got married in 83, and then we bought our first home in Indianapolis in 84. All three of our children have Indiana birth certificates. So we were in Indianapolis until 93, and I'm a rabid Buckeye fan, but I was so from a distance. I was in Indianapolis.

When we came back to Columbus, excitedly, her family is here. My dad and mom and family were in Cleveland, but I had forgotten how crazy the Buckeye fans are. And I was excited about being embraced in that manner and experiencing that again. But it did take a little bit of getting used to because I had been away for so long and had only been seen and experiencing it from a distance. But it didn't take long. It took a little time just to embrace the rabid nature of the fans.

and everything scarlet and gray, but I found my rhythm in stride after about a few months being back. What are some of your, or maybe you just won, like a great memory from your time as a player playing for the Buckeyes in college, perhaps big wins or teammates, the camaraderie of the guys. I'm curious, what are some of the...

Well, anytime we played Indiana, because they were always really good and Bobby Knight brought a level of intensity to the building that was palpable. I mean, the fans were... at another pitch. We were amped up as players because the team they had

was always really good and Bobby Knight was Bobby Knight. A former Buckeye, a Buckeye grad, a legendary coach, a great coach. And those games always had a little special field to them. And we weren't uber successful. We were two and four, I think,

in the three years that I played for the Buckeyes. but two of our better wins were in Columbus at St. John Arena, and I had a pretty good impact on both of those games. So those are a couple of positive memories, and all of my teammates were really fun and terrific to play with. I bet you leave one year early, which now would have been two years late, it seems,

with the guys leaving after a freshman to won and duns, but you leave after your junior season and you're the first round draft pick of the Pacers' eighth overall. you have a shoe named after you by Commerce, and this was before our shoes are really different. Well, they just stamped my name on the shoe. It wasn't really the same as having your customized shoe. You got to take credit. Like Kyrie, the KD. Jordan. Yeah. That was a nice stamp. There was a poster that went with it, but it wasn't really, it wasn't really the same thing. You get some extra money, I hope, or something. I had a nice little contract with Converse at the time and was able to

help my high school with some gear and a financial donation. So that was all great. But the naming of the shoe after me is a bit of a stretch. Okay. So that transition from the college to the pros. What was that like? How was it now you're a professional? This is what you do for a living. Well, I was excited.

Yeah. I had dreamed of one day having a chance to play for pay. And it happened for me right after my 21st birthday. I think I was the second or third youngest guy in the league that season. And even more special for me was that Herb Williams, a guy. had played with for two years in college was actually already in Indianapolis. He had been there a year. And so he was able to really break me into the pro game in a way that I'm forever grateful for in terms of where to live, how to prepare. We lived in the same apartment complex. He would take me

to the arena and show me around when we were at training camp. And that was a really healthy way for me to enter the league. And it wasn't too far from Columbus. I was still in the Midwest, Indianapolis was a very comfortable city. We weren't very good because we just didn't have enough talent at that time, but it was a really comfortable transition for me on and off the court. And Indianapolis became home. It really did for Rosie and I, early in our marriage, to live there, to kind of find our way to have that community really embrace us and we embrace the community.

I tell people all the time, we lived there for 10 years, but that's my 1A home. Cleveland is where I grew up. Columbus is where I became a man and continue to live. But Indianapolis is right there 1A in terms of my growth and development for both Rosie and I, and it's a special place in our hearts. There's a lot of coaches here. I'm curious, you've had experience with a number of coaches throughout your playing career, throughout your broadcasting career.

They're probably thinking, in Clark's mind, what are some things he views as, that guy's a great coach she's a great coach he's a great coach what is the makeup of a great coach what are some things for these guys to strive for as they develop to become better leaders better coaches for young people in their careers yeah you know what i think there are a number of attributes that make up a really um productive and fruitful coach one is really a passion for what they're doing which most most coaches have um whatever they are are coaching typically there's a real genuine passion for that particular sport. And then the other thing is a willingness to adapt and to adjust to the changes in the game, to the various personalities you have on your team. And that leads me to the communication piece, which is huge to be able to effectively communicate what it is you desire and how you want things done.

And then I think it's important to set a real tone of, um, humility and accountability and to be yourself. Oftentimes, young coaches look to emulate other coaches in a way that's not their personality or their style. And players typically can pick up on phonies quickly. So being yourself is huge because it establishes some trust and that authenticity and humility go a long way. But communicating and adaptability, I think, are the things that you see in the really outstanding coaches that are getting it done.

Whatever sport and at whatever level, those are things that I think are pretty universal in good coaches. Who are some of the best that stand out for you, whether you played for them or you know them well now through your interaction? Well, I've had a chance through my experience in the game at every level to see coaches either as a broadcaster, in my time as a podcast. player. I think about coaches at the professional level in the NBA, particularly. Larry Brown was phenomenal to watch work. His ability to see and to know where everybody was at any one time, his ability to hold players accountable to the simple, basic things that impact winning. His in-game management was superb. Rick Carlisle with the Dallas Mavericks is outstanding and his ability to get the most out of different types of teams that he's had.

I think about Coach K, Tom Izzo. I mean, there are names that you often hear. Tubby Smith, to me, is also in that ilk. He may not get the same credit, but he's been really successful in a lot of different circumstances as far as programs and continues to do it at a high level. He doesn't waver from his principles, but he does adjust to what he has.

So there are a number. I think most coaches really do an outstanding job. It's a matter of how long do you do it and how many times are you able to succeed with different types of teams and personnel. Especially in college with now. Yeah, the turnover. High school coaches, right, they got to deal with it too.

You don't fully know what your roster is going to be and you've got to be able to adapt to this. And I think it's a little different at the high school level. I think in high school, obviously you're desiring to be competitive and to win. but in those situations I think it's inherent, it's incumbent upon the coaches to really create an environment and a culture where you're trying to get the kids

to be the best they can be at this time and place and to have a good experience in the game. And part of that is winning, but also part of that is their development. Are they getting better because they've been under your coaching and supervision? And getting better doesn't really. mean earning a scholarship. It means going from A to B in skill level and understanding and

leadership quality. So I think it's a little different in the formative stages. It should be about development and a positive experience in the game. And when those things are in the right order, then I think you will have some of the fruit of winning that sometimes can happen when you have special talent as well as those foundational pieces. Yeah, I think the best coaches have, there's really two prong, right? There's coaching for development, and there's coaching for performance. Development's more long-term preparing them for the future. Performance maybe be a micro-minute.

Yeah, that's a great point. You know, this was a mistake. Let's fix that here. Yeah, good point. We got guys here that were either elected captain or they won this incredible award, this Sun Younger Award, and part of why we're here to recognize Sonny is what he stood for and it's really about character, right? And integrity, doing what you say you're going to do, work ethic, those types of things. The guys or teammates you've played with

through high school, college, the pros, what were the guys that, when you saw him, you said, yes, like, that's, that's a leader. That's a guy that I want to follow. He kind of embodies this, what Sonny embodied when his short time here on the planet. What are some of the things you look for and those types of people. You look for consistency. Yes. Consistency of attitude and effort. You don't necessarily gravitate to folks that are uber volatile,

that are up and down, that are a little bit all over the place. Folks that tend to focus on the others in the sphere of team and not necessarily self-absorbed. So there's an element of humility. that's attractive when you're in a team game, when you look at teammates. But I don't think anything supersedes consistency of attitude and effort. Being able to accept criticism the right way, being able to bring effort consistently, even when it's hard, not giving in, somebody that's able to correct others in a positive manner

constructively. I mean, those are the things that always kind of resonated with me in a positive way. Herb Williams was one of the best teammates that I had because he was really knowledgeable about the game. He was somewhat understated, but he was always consistent in effort and attitude and attitude. And that's a good model to follow. And even for the young athletes out here to be consistent in your attitude and effort, and who you are should not fluctuate based on where you are. Who you are should be consistent.

whether you're in a gym or on a field or in a classroom or at a job or at home, there should be a consistency in who you are. And that's something that should be worked on and you have to be intentional about. Because authenticity is powerful and it's impactful. And it gives you a chance to be your most successful version of yourself, being a chameleon and having, situational ethics or situational attitude is not the way to long-term success. Yeah, there's not a work you and a home view.

Right, right. It's just the you, right. That's exactly right. It's the same. I experienced that in the working world. Do you see somebody to do something questionable outside of work? That certainly is going to make me question what they're going to do out of work, right? The same guy.

And speaking of that, so your career is cut short because of knee injuries. Right? The bone on bone you talked to me about when I asked you, you still play pickup. me and you don't. No, no, I can't do that. Get on the golf course. But for a lot of people, this is a really tough moment. And it was for myself, and I didn't play in the pros like you, but really tough to make that transition from,

I've been a player all my life, and all of a sudden I'm not anymore. What was that moment like for you? How did you deal with it? What was the process like there? Well, it was terribly disappointing and hard because I was in the prime of a promising career. when I ultimately had to make the announcement that I could no longer play NBA basketball, I had just turned 26 years old a few weeks before that. It was August of 87 and my birthday's in early July.

Our daughter had been born in March of that year. But I had a real piece about the next chapter, even though I didn't know what that chapter would be in total. during the process of my three knee surgeries and ultimately after the second and third ones is when it became a parent I might not be able to get back when I had gone through rehab and started to get back on the court and was having issues with swelling and discomfort in pick-up games, not to mention what you do as an NBA player, three and four games a week on occasion. So I knew that there was a chance I might not be able to make it back. But during that

time, and, you know, it's funny, there's different things that happen in our lives that sometimes cause us to think about the big picture, who is God, what does he have to say about how we live and who we are. And during that time, I came to a place in my life through a local minister sharing the word of God with me about Jesus Christ and who he is and what God desire. for us as men and women to reflect his image that I needed to think about where my life was and who it belonged to. And over a period of several months of having the Bible unfolded to me, I came to a place where my heart was convicted of my need for a Savior, and that Savior was Jesus Christ by faith to who offers forgiveness of sin and the promise of new and abundant eternal life,

which is God's desire for us all to know and to reflect him in the earth. And it's hard to do that. You can't do that apart from being forgiven of a nature that tends to want to live away from God. So in November of 86, I gave my life to Christ by faith, accepting the promises of Scripture as they were laid out. And then in August of 87, I announced my retirement. So during that time, I was growing spiritually in a way to where. where once basketball had been on the center of my life and on the throne of my life to where Christ was now the center

and throne of my life. And my confidence and hope and trust was in honoring him through my life going forward. And got an opportunity not long after that to start what's been a 30-plus year broadcasting career. Started with the Pacers on radio. Did you have any ambition as a player or thought of what I get done,

I'd like to talk about basketball. I like to keep, you know. You know what I thought I was going to play for 10 or 12 years? This was kind of what I had in my mind. I was going to play and be successful on the court for 10 or 12 years. And in the process,

and while doing that, I would prepare myself for life after basketball as an entrepreneur. I've always enjoyed business. I got my degree in marketing. I was fortunate enough to have a friend who's a man. mentor, even to this day, allow me to work in his insurance agency as a high schooler,

and I learned the insurance business, the property and casualty insurance business as a high school, junior, and senior through my years in college, and saw what business could look like from that perspective and really was intrigued by trying to create something like that for myself when basketball was over. But the abrupt end of my career caused me to think about basketball. differently because it really was what I knew best. I had gotten a great education in basketball. I like to say when you've played at the professional level in any sport, you've gotten a master's or Ph.D. in that particular sport. And so it was what I knew. And I thought I could be good as an

announcer. I wanted to be around the game, but I knew I didn't want to coach. And so I got a chance to do Indiana Pacers radio and fell in. I've always enjoyed words. And, reading and statistics and following the game. So it just seemed like a nice fit, and I got an opportunity right away. I was rough around the edges and not very good when I started, but I was committed to giving it the same effort

that I gave to plane. And lo and behold, I started doing Cleveland State University TV that same year on a small scale in my hometown of Cleveland. You don't humble yourself. No, you've got to start at the beginning. You've got to prepare. I think that that's not easy. for a guy like you with your accolades, you had it all.

Well, I tell you what, man, I had it all from a playing standpoint. Right, right. I had nothing from a broadcasting standpoint. Right. I still think that's a guy struggle with that. Yeah, I would say that's true. But again, I had given my life and heart to God through faith in Christ, and that became my anchor and the filter through which I looked at everything.

And humility is the beginning step to relationship with God. So humility was in play. But I also knew that, heck, if I wanted to be good, I didn't become good at basketball right away. I mean, I had been playing basketball since I was eight or nine years old. So I felt like if I'm going to do this well, then I need to start where I need to start. Get the reps.

Yep, and it was great training. Radio is phenomenal training for television analysis in basketball because you have to be fairly quick in. and out and the radio play-by-play guy has to paint picture. So it was a great, great training ground for me. And I took it and ran and got better over time. As a player, you get coached on a regular basis, right? There's constant feedback loop in your life. As a broadcaster, do you have that? How does that work? No, the only feedback you get is when they stop giving you assignments. That's the only feedback you get in most cases. That's hard, though. And that's very hard,

and it's not right. And it's not fair. And it's part of the reason why I continue to mentor other broadcasters. Yep. To tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear all the time, because I had people do that for me. Broadcasters and veterans in the business, how do I become better at this is what I would ask them? And they would tell me candidly, once they knew I was serious about the answer. I wasn't interested in sugar. How do I become excellent in this profession?

Great advice for anything. Yeah. That one, you know, there's some things from sports that are transferable and universal in life. That's one of the great things about sports participation and competition. The lessons you learn can be taken off the track, off the field, off the court, into real life living. And that's why it's so important to me to see young people have a positive experience in the games they play. Because they will serve the lessons learned. and if that experience is good

can be really a foundational pivot point for their lives. And when people thwart that and hinder that, it drives me crazy. So I go off point here. No. It's great.

There are transferable pieces that are critically important and can be learned through the crucible of sports. Yeah, I think having that feedback, but that advice right there of saying, I really care.

and want to be excellent at my crafts. And I mean it. And going around and finding the people who are doing it on a regular basis, and they see how serious you are, what better way to learn to grow to develop. Yeah, and they gave me great feedback. Be yourself. That was one of the first things I said.

Now, you need to be unique, but you have to be you. Yeah. Early on, I would find myself on occasion being Dick Vital like. And I said, no, that's not me. I love words. I love to create words. but I'm not Dick Vital. I have to be Clark Kellogg in this new space and role.

So I love to play with words. I love food analogies because everybody loves food. Nobody dislikes food. Black, white, rich, poor, suburban, rural, everybody can relate to food. So I use food analogies in basketball. Dessert before dinner. That's a bad shot.

That's a bad shot. A guy who's really good, but doesn't seem to be playing at his potential as Chinese food. It's really good, but it doesn't quite feel you up. Simple as pound cake. I love pound cake. But ain't nothing too, pound cake. It's simple. That's a very efficient, good player.

Real simple, but he puts it together. puts it together real nice on the court. You can relate to that and sometimes chuckle, which is a bonus. That's great. What's it like working on the desk with Charles Barkley? Exactly as it appears. I figured, yeah? I hear that there's no prep for him, right? No, he's unfiltered. Look, Charles is a personality, but he is a smart, shrewd basketball person and a very successful businessman here in the last 15 or so years. And he's funny. He's naturally funny. There are guys that are just funny, women that are have great humor. He's that. He has tremendous humor. And he's authentic. He is genuine,

which is part of his great appeal. I mean, I get a wide spectrum of people that ask me that same question. Always with a chuckle and a twinkle. Yeah. Men, women, young, old, white, black, it's amazing. I know he has his dissenters, as we all do. Nobody is liked universally by everybody. But because he's authentic, he's funny, and he's unfiltered. But over the years now,

because he knows I come prepared. I was just going to say, yeah. I come loaded. I'm not messing around. I can't go on the air naked. I've got to have all my clothes on and all of my information lined up. So I'm loaded.

And we have great mutual respect. and so we'll talk basketball, we'll talk teams and he pays attention and then he works at it too but he's a personality and it's funny I mean he's just a really funny guy Kenny studious

great sense of humor those two guys have been together for a long time along with Ernie and they helicopter in with us for the three weeks of the tournament and it's a great ride it's been wonderful the last six years that I've been back in there with them

because it's fun. The tournament and college hoops is special as a sports property. And the other people that you all don't see that are part of our team are terrific. All of our folks, researchers and directors and producers behind the scenes are first rate, and it makes it really fun. And it gives us a chance to hopefully express

how much fun we're having together calling the games and doing what we do. You briefly mentioned your preparation process. I'm always fascinated by this for high performers. people who have been doing it for a long time as you have and have stayed at a peak level and continued to get better and better. It's really hard.

A lot of people want your job. You know that. I know they're coming. Guys are retiring. And I'm giving them the highs. I know. They're retiring every year saying, I want Clark Kellogg's job.

How do you prepare? How do you get ready for every time, for any big moment, for a broadcast? What's your process? Yeah, I really just try to be consistent in the process because that way you're ready for the moments as they unfold. Sure.

So I start really revisiting my notes from last year in October and then I'll visit some teams practicing. It's always good to be able to talk with coaches and see players before they get into the meat and heart of their season. I'll watch a ton of games on video

and I take notes. I chart every game that I watch. What does that mean? I take, I keep a notebook so I chart personnel who are their best players, who are their key players, how do they play, how do they win, who's their coach, what's their mascot name,

those kinds of things. I'm always preparing for the studio all season long. I get out to do games, six to eight games. Our inventory at CBS during the regular season isn't that great, and I'm the number two game announcer, so I only get six to eight, maybe nine games during the regular season. My main and primary role is to be the lead analyst

in the studio for the tournament, so I'm always preparing for the tournament. I'm watching teams that people haven't heard about until the brackets come out. I had watched Cal Irvine all year because I knew they were good and I picked them to beat a team But I'm watching those teams I'm watching Gardner Webb I'm watching those teams Thankfully my wife likes basketball too

Because on occasion she'll hang out with me for a game or two But when I start fast forward and I'm going back and forth she can't handle that Do you can you watch for fun or are you taking notes when you watch? When I watch a game during the season I'm taking notes Gotcha okay I'm taking notes all the time registering because you remember things better when you write them down. And so I like to read it, watch it, write it down,

and then I can regurgitate it comfortably and naturally because it's been stored. So when you watch the NBA, you can just relax and watch. Oh, yeah, yeah, I can just be a fan. Yeah, yeah, I just chill. At times when it becomes your profession, I would imagine, like, I kind of would like to watch Zion play without having to take notes.

Yeah, yeah. And with a team like that, if I've watched them a dozen times, I'm not going to take notes every time I watch them, but I do make sure I make notes of things that will be helpful. And then if I've watched them enough, then occasionally I will sit back and force myself, which is hard to not analyze the game. I bet.

To really sit back and just watch and try to see it as a fan who's not an analyst. Yeah, you've got to do some pretty cool things based on your profession. You played horse or potis with President Obama. met him multiple times. What was that like? Getting a chance to meet him. It was over the top to think about basketball connecting me in a unique way to the sitting president of the United States. And I still am floored that God gave me that opportunity through basketball.

I can never repay basketball for what it's provided. me with in terms of an education, experiences, livelihood, career. And even going back to the early days, the sense of accomplishment and what comes with that when you do anything well, it does feed your confidence and helps you to think about how you might do other things well. It doesn't make any difference what it is if it's basketball or an instrument or a certain other aptitude or giftedness you have. When you do that well and you get positive reinforcement from that, it really can fuel a lot of other areas.

And so basketball has been all of that for me. And then to have multiple interactions with President Obama while he was in office has been just one of the great highlights of my journey in the game. Although I must say, because he won that game. You let him win, right? If you go back and watch the YouTube clip And you said you just watched it.

After the game, he said. He said exactly what happened. You missed a few on purpose. I was killing him. I had him down. Three letters to none. And I was feeling like that wasn't going to be good TV if I just skunked him. Yeah.

But I thought I could give him a chance to make it competitive and still win. That's where I messed up. He's got a good shot. He got on a roll and he can shoot it and he talked trans. He's done this. He's whap, wap, wap, wow, wow. Like this guy, but he loves the game, knows the game. It's genuine.

It was a wonderful experience and a great memory for me. And actually I made his, apparently he put this, the White House put out some of the top, the top 100 moments during his presidency and that's somewhere on the list. Wow. Because one, he won and two, when I asked him for a rematch. he gave me the Heisman. Right. And as a champion, I saw it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He didn't want to fool with it because I was going to step on his neck if I got another chance. That's great. I love it. I want to pause for a second. I imagine there may be questions that you have. What's the official shot clock? I mean, people are sitting here patiently.

I mean, I don't ever want to overrun my headlights in terms of. Raise your hand. Brent, do you want to lead the way or anybody? have questions for Clark here? I'm putting you on the spot. I know you, oh, there you go, Coach Arns. He was Lual Sender at the time I was younger, but he's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar now.

He was the first, and UCLA was a preeminent powerhouse during that time, and really the only team that I can recall seeing on television regularly. Notre Dame started to get some pub in the late 60s, early 70s as I was growing up, but Kareem was fascinating to me because he was the first really tall guy I saw that had agility and skills. And then as I learned more about him, he was also

extremely bright and socially aware and had the balance and combination of excellence on the court and seemed to be quite a good student as well. And I kind of wanted to be like that. And so he was my guy. I mean, actually, I wore 33 as my number throughout my career because that's the number I saw. him wear. So he was my guy and then Dr. Jay and Marcus Johnson forwards that could do a lot of things, could handle the ball, score outside inside. Those became guys that I looked at. George McGinnis when I saw him with the Sixers, Big 6-8, 240-pound guy that could go rack to rack and pass it. And ironically, he and I have become great friends over the years and he was one of my idols. too, but Kareem was the guy for me as I was growing up.

Question? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. And congratulations. Kyle and Nick, look forward to seeing you guys do great things as you move forward. The one thing that I often make sure I try to encourage young people to do and think about is owning your development. That's your property, how you grow and who you become. and you have to be intentional about owning that

and intentional about growing and getting better and improving. And it's not always in the big things, it's really in the small things. Who are you associating with? How are you impacting those that you're around? But it comes back to who do you want to be, and what are you doing to be that? Own your growth and development. There are a lot of distractions.

There are a lot of headwinds. There will be bumps. There's no journey that is without bumps. But when you have a sense of where you want to go, then it helps you to determine how you're going to get there. But on your development. And then control the controllables, which to me really boil down to really just three things,

your attitude, your effort, and your faith. A lot of, most of everything else in life you can't control. You can't control who your parents are or how they are. You can't control your siblings. You can't control your coaches. You can't control your teammates. You can control your attitude, your effort, and your faith. And when you control the controllables and you own your growth and development,

you've got a chance to reach whatever potential God has given you. So that would be my advice. And I've told my own kids that too. So it's not like it's just for others. It's self-talk for me too. Other questions we got? Anybody? What was it like playing?

Oh, go ahead. Yeah, sorry. Well, the biggest trash talkers. The biggest and most discreet was Larry Bird. Because he would trash talking, you almost didn't even see his lips move. He would, yeah, he was really, I mean, he would, and he could, and he could, Zing you. He could zing you pretty good. He was probably the one. And then Spencer Haywood was late in his career when I became a player in the NBA. So he was on the downside. But he was kind of a

crazy trash talker. I mean, he would just try to rattle you with a bunch of noise and gibberish. And he actually rattled me bad my rookie year. And I see him to this day. And that's like, it's almost 40 years ago. He said, remember when I got you when you was a rookie? And he did. He did. He got me. But Byrd, of the guys I had to defend and play against,

and he was the one who trashed. And then Bernard King was the hardest guy I ever had to defend. What about Jordan? I didn't have to deal with him positionally. He was a guard. I was a forward, so I didn't have to go face head-to-head with him. But King, I had to deal with Kelly Tripuka, who was tough because he was a great score. But Bernard had the game face and the game to make you feel and look bad.

Yeah, tough. He was tough. Clark, one of the, we talked about my podcast earlier, it's focused on leadership. It's called a Learning Leadership. And one of the things I like to ask every person I speak with is when they look at the landscape of their life and the people that are in it and the roles, those people have played, what are the commonalities that you? you found in leaders who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time. When you think about that, again, this is some of the things we all then want to strive for. Similar to your question about, I want to be great. I want to be excellent with this. What should I do? What are the

skills I need to develop to become excellent? What would you say those commonalities have been for you and your life and the people you've been surrounded by? I would say one of the big ones is they're others centered. They're interested in helping others be their best. That's one of the benefits I've gleaned from people that have come alongside me, is that they want to see me be the best I can be, whether it's my wife, my parents, coaches I've had, teammates and friends, those who lead well typically are,

others focused on some level. They want to see other people be elevated and do well, and they want to be part of helping them succeed. That's one of the big things for me in terms of how I've been able to move forward in my journey. I don't discount the favor of God in terms of the people that he's placed in my life, that's a huge deal as well. I know I can't take credit for a lot of it. Is that a skill that, or how have you developed that? Because I think, thinking it from a growth perspective, if right now you're sitting there thinking,

I don't know if that's me yet. I don't know if I've done a good job of lifting others up, of serving them, of supporting them. What are ways that we can develop these skills to be excellent at all? I think one of the things is just being available in giving of yourself to others in whatever capacity I mean in my capacity

I get calls from young students that are interested in broadcasting I get calls from fellow broadcasters who are just starting in their journey and then just making yourself available to listen to hear their story to share in their journey and to offer what you can

to help them whether it's connecting them to somebody or connecting them to a resource or to a book or to a person or to an experience that you've had. But I think the big thing is being willing to avail yourself to other people. That's one of the ways that I attempt to live that out, is to just be available and to try to help folks move forward.

Yeah. And to let them know that that's my heart's desire. There's no agenda. And I just am happy to be able to serve you in whatever capacity I can as you take your step. Sometimes you can offer them some really helpful things or ideas or resources. Other times just making yourself available and giving of yourself with that time is a big deal. You talked about owning your development.

I think it's great advice for not only our winners, but everybody. I think that's fantastic. What are ways that, like tactical ways that we can all own, not just for young people, but I mean, I know you're still doing it to this thing, obviously, right? Own our development. so that we have a trajectory like this, right? We're going upwards all the time, regardless of age, experience, success. What are some of the things we can do?

You know, so much of it is mindset. Yeah. You know, the battlefield for a lot of our challenges and hindrances to success is really in the mind. Joyce Meyer, a strong Christian leader, wrote a book called The Battlefield of the Mind. and it talks about the attitude impacting how you move forward. So for me, in a practical sense, I try not to ever major in minor things. Very few things are major. Most of life's bumps and disappointments and frustrations.

Most of them are not major in the context of the bigger picture. And I really concentrate on not majoring in minor stuff, not making mountains out of mole hills, not getting bent out of shape about little inconveniences or frustrations or disappointments. They happen to all of us. And most of them are not major.

So that's one practical way to not major in minors. The other thing, and it's really simplistic, is to think about being grateful for where you are and what you do have. The Bible says that salt water and freshwater can't come from the same spring. if you're praising and thanking it's hard to be complaining at the same time i don't know if you guys can do that but i can't if i'm thanking god and being appreciative of others then i it's hard to complain it's hard yeah it's hard to be hateful it doesn't dismiss difficulties or challenges or problems that are real. It doesn't dismiss them or diminish them,

but it does put them in a different light and perspective if gratitude is something you're conscious of, if being grateful is a big part of how you approach your day and your life. And those things to me are practical and can be actually, universally applied. You don't have to have a certain stature, degree, or skill set to be grateful. Nor do you have to have a certain degree or skill set to not major in little things.

It's perspective and attitude and intentionality. and when that habit is developed, just like bad habits, good habits are hard to break too. And the more good habits we can develop, the harder they are to break. So those are the things that I really home in on in that regard. That's well said.

I don't know if we can end on a better note. Let's give it up, everybody, for Clark Kellogg. Thank you, Ryan. Appreciate it, man. Great job. What an enjoyable night, this was with Clark recording in front of a few hundred people in Dayton, Ohio. Prior to us recording, Clark sat alongside my family and we had dinner together. It was so cool to see how curious and kind and giving he was to everyone around him, despite a lot of attention on him. Some of the parts of

this conversation I found most useful. When he said, take control of your own development, this is your responsibility. Then when he thought about the most effective leaders in his life, he said they are all others centered. It's a distinct and intentional process to help elevate others. The mindset, the battlefield for a lot of our challenges is in our own mind. Attitude impacts how we move forward and never major and minor things. Most of life's disappointments are not major in the context of the bigger picture. Don't make mountains out of mole hills and then live a life of gratitude. Saltwater and freshwater can't come from the same spring. You can't be thankful and hateful at the same time.

I found Clark to be refreshing, wise, kind, and a really helpful leader. I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. If so, I would love it if you would tell a friend. Perhaps one that has never listened to the Learning Leaders Show before and say, listen to this one with Clark Kellogg. You'll find a giving and kind and wise leader. doing this continues to give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful.

Thank you so much. Talk with you. Next week, can't wait. I want to let you know that we have opened up tickets for our once a year personal excellence workshop. We did this last year and received incredible reviews, so we wanted to do it again this year, but make it even better. In addition to the topics that I personally teach on, I have reached out to the subject domain experts within my network to be with us in the room and share their expertise. Things like

how to harness your personal and professional flywheel to build an incredible career. Secrets from a professional keynote speaking coach. How to become a learning machine. How to utilize the mindset of a professional athlete in the business world and so much more. This workshop is ideal for you if You want to interact with intellectually curious and interesting people. If you want to accelerate your personal and professional growth, if you have an open mind and are not afraid to be challenged, and if you are currently leading a team or have a desire to at some point in your future. For more details, go to ryanhawk.

Me. This event is intentionally kept small so the experience is intimate, engaging, and interactive. For more details and to get your ticket, go to, Ryanhawk.me.