The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 329: Kindra Hall - How Storytelling Can Influence Audiences & Transform Your Business

Episode Date: September 22, 2019

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk Ep #329: Kindra Hall Full show notes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com  Kindra Hall is President and Chief Storytelling Officer at Steller Collective, a consulting firm focused on the strategic application of storytelling to today's communication challenges. Kindra is one of the most sought after keynote speakers trusted by global brands to deliver presentations that inspire teams and individuals to better communicate the value of their company, their products and their individuality through strategic storytelling.  Kindra is a former Director of Marketing and VP of Sales. Her much anticipated book, Stories That Stick, will be published on September 24, 2019. Notes: Why is storytelling so important? It's how we learn, how we connect Your team needs to know you, and like you (stories do that when you tell them well) You can learn breadth/depth of a person through a story A story is NOT: A bullet point resume A list of information Stating the mission statement The objective A story = The small moments when mission is in a specific place and time... When something happens. The four components of a story: Place and time: "a moment" Identifiable characters - must see people Authentic emotion - Relatable to audience Specific details - Draw audience in to the co-creative process Opening story of her book: In Slovenia at Thanksgiving: The power of the sales clerk's ability to tell a story compelled Kindra and her husband to buy Why did the story work? It drew you in with powerful moments and emotion It had suspense - "I want to know what's going to happen..." People will give you their attention when you're telling a compelling story It brought them to places through vivid descriptions How to better start a meet at work: First, realize it's a skill you can develop Take a step back, think of the higher level message -- "What's the overall theme?" "When have I seen this in action?"  Why was it compelling? Make a list of nouns: People in life you've had to communicate with (bosses, friends, colleagues) Find moments and stories from those people... Understand the characters of the story Think: "What do I want my audience to think, feel, know, and do at the end of this story?" Use the "bystander story" - Stories of others that you make yours Remember the goal is to create connection This becomes your story... Through your eyes How to handle price conversations? Move from dollars and cents to value -- "They need to feel the pain of if they didn't have this thing I'm selling." Our decisions are not always based on logic, they are based on ideas Use the "Get To Know You Document" Why joining The Learning Leader Circle is a good idea

One of our underlying goals here is to connect to you with the people that you're leading. And so an important piece of the bystander story is instead of just going right into the story, as it is, the Wright Brothers, for example, you kind of put, I cut like two little bookends on the story that you start with your story about loving the story. So you can say, you know, welcome to the meeting. We're so happy you're here. You know what? I will never forget this book that I read. It was a story about the Wright brothers. Now you have to understand. I grew up and then you tell a little bit, you paint a little bit of that picture of Dayton, Ohio. You have to tell the story of your love of this story because then it becomes,

as you're telling the story, this also then becomes your story because they're seeing it through your eyes. This episode is brought to you by seeing Around Corners, the new book by Rita McGrath, a global expert on strategy and innovation. It's your go-to guide for spotting and responding to strategic inflection points in business before they happen. After all, inflection points don't happen overnight. Someone in some business is capitalizing on the early warning signs. Learn how you too can see around corners and set your business up for success, featuring a

special forward by best-selling author Clayton Christensen of Harvard Business School. Seeing Around Corners is this falls must read Business Book. Welcome to the Learning Leaders Show presented by Brixie and Meyer. I am Ryan Hawk. Thanks so much for being here. Text learners to 4-4-2-2 in order to join tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world. Received Mindful Monday updates. What I'm reading, watching, writing, thinking about, and have the opportunity.

to be part of my book launch team, tax learners to 4422. Now on tonight's featured leader, the great Kendra Hall. She's the president at Stellar Collective. It's a firm that focuses on the strategic application of storytelling to become a better leader. Also, the author of a new book titled Stories That Stick, How Storytelling Can Captivate Customers, Influence Audiences, and Transform Your Business. A few of the topics we discuss. We define what a story is and perhaps more importantly what a story is not.

And Kendra shares why effective storytelling can become your superpower. Then we talk about how to handle the dreaded price conversations. We top it off, Kendra shares how to use stories to run better meetings. Ladies and gentlemen, it's so good with Kendra Hall. All right, Kendra Hall. It's so good to have you here on the Learning Leader Show. Welcome. Thank you, Ryan. I'm so happy to be here. Well, Kendra, I love your area of mastery, and that is storytelling.

As you've said, storytelling is a strategic skill. It can be taught and developed. And I like to focus the bulk of our time, of our conversation, almost selfishly, but I also know the audience will benefit from this as well on how we could first define what storytelling is, then how we can literally put this into practice. I love when we get practical and tactical to say, all right, for our next Monday meeting, for that mid-level manager, they're going to learn something from this conversation to make them a better manager, to run a better meeting with their team, to better understand how to share the vision and the story of the group that they are leading.

So let's first start by explaining why does storytelling? work so well as a mode of communication. Well, that's a great, that's a great question. And the really simple answer is that's what humans want to hear. That's how we've been trained to learn. That's how we make sense of our own worlds. That's how we connect with people. And particularly for leaders, you know, the people you're leading, they don't just want

to know you as your title on your business card. They want to feel like they know you as a human that they can trust you, that they like you. I mean, let's not underestimate the importance of likability in leadership. Now, just like your mother will tell you, trust takes a long time to develop and it takes one instance to have it all fall apart. But one of the great things about storytelling is we can learn a lot about the breadth. and the depth of a person and who they are at their core in a very short period of time. You can tell one story about a high school track meet and what happened at that meet. And people on your team will understand you a lot better, a lot more thoroughly.

And again, just that very short period of time. So in terms of why it works, this is, it can speed up the relationships. It can make your messages matter more. And then also have them have a lasting impact. I mean, I'm sure you can think back to leaders in your organization and in the roles that you were in. And the stories they told you and how you learned, how it shaped, how you behaved within that organization.

Let's define stories. So first start by defining what is not a story. So a story, and that's, you know, one of the great things about storytelling. Somebody just wrote an article that came out not long ago that said, storytelling is having a moment. And I laughed, you know, and they mentioned me in there, which is great, but I don't think it's just a moment, right? Like, this is a sustained thing. But it is. People are talking about storytelling books are being written about.

storytelling. It's a buzzword within business, which is great. It means there's more awareness to it. But it also means that what is accepted as a story has really been watered down. So I've seen people get up in front of the, you know, a meeting and say, let me tell you my story. And they just give like the bullet points of resume. And that isn't that isn't going to connect people to you. It's just a list of information. So in terms of what a story is not, it's not a list of information. It's not simply stating the mission statement over and over again or the objectives of your company or the ideals that you withhold. A lot of time and research and energy goes into, for example, a lot of jargon around the culture of a company. But just having that isn't a story.

You need to, a story are those small moments of when those pieces of the culture, those pieces of the mission statement are in action, where people can really see, see the imagery, feel the emotions. That is, that's just a few things of what's required for a great story. Yeah. So let's flip it. Let's expand on that for, we're going to stick. currently for people who are leading in the business world, because I know that's a lot of the people

listening, that's certainly for myself. We know that story's not a resume of a person. We know it's not a bullet point. We know it's not mission statement or even just stating the culture. How do you define storytelling? A story, well, storytelling is the act of telling stories, of course. And then a story, really at its core happens in a moment. It's a specific place and time. It's a, it's a moment where something happened, where you saw something or realized something or experienced something. So that's one of the key components of actually telling a story is that it needs to have a moment in it. So it could be. It could be the moment that, you know, you looked at the report and realized that you failed at something. It could be the moment you sat down at your desk and realized, okay, this is my job and we have a big job to do, but it has to happen in a moment. So that's one of the, in the book, I talk about the four key components that a story needs to have. And that's one of them. And that's often where our stories can start. Right. So you think about these moments in your lives. And for, And for leaders to know that you aren't limited only by the experiences within your professional

career, one of the great things leaders can do is go outside the walls of the business. Go outside the walls of your professional experience and tell stories from your life. But we can talk about that. But there's one of the pieces of what makes a story. So can you go through the four components? That would be, yeah, let's dive right into. them if possible. Perfect. Okay. So we talked about having a having a moment. And again, this is this act by keeping that component in mind where a lot of stories go wrong is they go too big. We end up talking

in a general sense instead of honing in on one specific moment. So that's one of them. Another one of the four components is identifiable characters. We need to see people in these stories, one person, two people where we can start, where your audience, we being the audience, can start to picture who this person is. Now often as a leader, and if you're telling your own stories, you're going to, you'll be the character in the story. So give them a sense of, you know, if it's a story from five years ago, who were you five years ago? Like, what did you care about? Even, even what were you wearing? Right. So we can see that person. If you're telling a story about a team member, make sure that we can really see that team member.

And maybe it's a member of the team that's no longer with the team. Maybe they moved on from somewhere. So make sure that people can see who they are, can get to know them there in that story. So that's the second component. The third component is authentic emotion. And here's the thing with storytelling and where there can be a misconception. And I think where stories stop, where people choose not to tell them or think that they shouldn't, is because we can think that the only stories worth telling are those that belong on the big screen or, you know, that would be watched in, would be consumed. What is that?

Where you sit down in. Why can't I think of what that is when you want a binge watch, binge watch on Netflix, right? So they have to be that big and that dramatic. And the reality is. I mean, unless you're trying to write a Hollywood screenplay, the emotions in the story don't have to be huge. It doesn't have to be like some big tragedy or some horrible event or something over the top. It can be very simple emotions that people feel. So stress, excitement, hopefulness, like nervousness.

Because your goal with telling stories in business is that your audience, can listen to the story and say, oh, I understand that. Yeah, I felt that way. Relatable? Oh, yeah, that sounds for it. Yes, relatable. Like, you just, you want them to connect with you. So authentic emotion is one of those key components.

And then the last, the last component of a story is specific details. The goal when you're telling a story is to draw your audience into what I call the co-creative process. So as you are telling your story, they are creating the images to go with it. And of course, they're drawing on the images from their own lives. So including very specific details. Maybe it was the click of a pen as you were, you know, maybe it was something that you were really nervous and you kept clicking your pen.

Even right there, can't you picture the clicking, nervously clicking the pen? So including those specific details in there, instead of, again, one of the mistakes that happen is we scrub those out because we think that they don't matter. We're trying to get through the story faster. But those very small details that paint a really clear picture are what really draws people in. So those are the four components. You open, so the book we're referring to is called Stories That Stick, how storytelling can captivate customers, influence audiences, and transform your business. And you open with a story about some of your time abroad with your husband, Slovenia, a country I've had the great pleasure

of driving through for a speaking gig as well. It's great. Yeah. Italy drove through Slovenia down into Rovine Croatia. Yes. It was really cool. Anyway, you were there, and I don't want to, I want you to tell the story because I think it's compelling, but it's really, we're going to get meta for a second, but you're, you sharing

the story is why. I can be, I think just be a great example of what you're talking about here with the four components. Yeah, so you want me to tell, you want me to tell you that story right now. Is that cool? Can you? Are you want to like slowly delay and build suspense before this great story comes or what would you like to do? No, no. All right, yeah, you can tell the story. It was, and it's, but that was, you know, when you, writing a book is not an easy process.

Yes, that's for sure. But sometimes you have those moments where you're like, oh, my gosh, this is it. And what do you mean? Like, good or bad? Good. Oh, okay. So was this one of those stories where you're like, we got it? Yeah, like this is one of the stories when we were putting the book together when I was writing the book.

And I kind of forgot. I hadn't forgotten about it. But it just, you know, you have so many stories in your mind, which again is one of the challenges of storytelling. You have so many. Sometimes it's hard to find one. And so when I remembered this story, I was like, this is how the book opens. Like, this is it. This is, this is the beginning of the book. We've got it. And if they read nothing else, they've got this. So it was, it was always going to be your opener. This is always going to be your lead end. Yeah, I didn't have another. I didn't, I mean, I suppose it could have gone a different way. No, I think it's, it's compelling. It makes me.

want to continue to turn the page. And the reason I asked, again, selfishly writing my own, the story that became the opener, which it's my, it's not out yet, but it will be, was something that was in the middle of the book. And I had shared it with multiple other great writers, authors, and I shared it with them. And a number of them said, what are you doing? That story was so compelling. I would open with it, go right into that story. And you can, get back to the principles after, but tell the story first. And I think, and I bring this up intentionally because you're, I'm talking to you and you understand the value in this. And so that's what we did. And with my developmental editor at McGrawl Hill, who I'm writing the book with,

that's, yeah, me too. And that then I think changed the tone and the feeling you're going to get as you begin. And I thought of that as I was reading your story, I was like, I wonder if this was always the opener or if she got feedback or this is the one. So anyway, I think I've delayed it enough now, Kendra. Maybe you can actually tell the story. No, that was always the, that's a great, now I understand, now I understand the question. Nope, that was always the opener. And that was even the opening story when I was pursuing agents. And then pursuing like, that was always, that was the story. So the story now that you've been caught in suspense for this amount of time, It is a story that happened several years ago when I was in Slovenia with my husband.

Now, I was in Slovenia over Thanksgiving to speak to a large conference of marketers, PR people about the power of storytelling in their messages. Now, as you might imagine, Slovenians do not celebrate Thanksgiving for obvious reasons. But they were celebrating the beginning of the holiday season. And they don't have they don't need a reason to celebrate by the way. I love Slovenians. We had a blast hanging out with them for a few for about a week and they did not need any reason. So for all them who are still listening, I love you. And thank you. So it's cool that you got to experience them too, Kendra.

Slovenians. Well, and this is a little, this is a little side note. I have a sentence in the book about it. But I'll tell you more. Once I went to Cancun, I went by myself because I was going to visit the host family brother that I had stayed with in college. He was working in Cancun. So he'd be at work and I just had to go to the beach by myself. And I met these three Slovenian soccer players and I'd never even heard of the country, Slovenia before. And they were the happiest, most joyful people. Still to this day, I have ever, I have ever met. And one of them, we actually ended up staying in touch. But, but they, It is. If you get a chance, go to Slovenia. That was the point of the whole book. That was the advertisement for it.

Okay, sorry. So there we were. So there we were. It's Thanksgiving. It's the launch of the holiday season. It was kind of a, it was, you know, it was at night and the, and the chill of the holidays had set in. So the air felt wet. But there were, there were carols in Slovenian.

There were people roasting chestnuts on open fires, which I didn't know was a real thing. And we were wandering down the cobblestone streets of the Slovenian capital. And on this trip, my husband, Michael and I, had made a pact that we wouldn't go shopping. Now, one thing you should know about my husband is he never go shopping. He never, ever buys things. He bought a pair of Lulu Lemon pants like 10 years ago. And just now bought a new pair. Like this is, this was so, so he never shops.

And I agreed to this. because while we were on the trip, we each only brought one suitcase, and I had already bought a mug, and so there wasn't going to be enough room. But as we were walking down the street, something caught my eye. It was a pair of silvery, sparkly, like, glitter, like, jeweled tennis shoes. No, now, glammed out tennis shoes. You don't see that very often. It's become more common in the States now, but this was the first time. And they just called to me. So without thinking, I grabbed my husband and ran into this shop to see these shoes. Up close, the shoes were really quite ugly.

And then I felt immediately guilty for betraying our pact with Michael. So I went to leave the store and he was kind of like hiding behind the like a stack of cologne, like a turnstile of cologne. And I went to grab them and leave. but before we did, from behind the Cologne counter appeared, I guess it from thin air, this Slovenian sales clerk. And do you want me to tell the whole story? Because I will.

I would love to. You can't stop now. You've already, you're right in the middle. I'm giving you a suspense. I hope this is legal. I hope I'm allowed to tell this story to you. No, I'm sure. It's fine.

Why wouldn't you be allowed? I don't know. One thing you should know about me. Ryan, I am a rule follower. Wait, wait, a rule like from your publisher or something or from? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know so many rules, but I'm sure it's fine. No, I tell this story all the time.

I tell the story in ages that this is my story. Okay, okay. So, okay. So this Slovenian sales clerk appears and he says to my husband, are you looking for a cent? Now, okay. So A, this poor guy, I felt so bad for him because he's going to waste his time, right? because A, my husband, Michael doesn't buy anything. And B, Michael does not wear cologne.

He thinks his own natural scent is good enough for the world. So he was not looking for his scent. We were not buying cologne. But the sales clerk wouldn't stop. Instead, he pulled from this tall glass lighted shelf a box. And on the front of the box, it said, 8 and Bob. And he said, perhaps this one, it is our best seven. And then he told a story.

He transitioned right. He just went right into it. Like the two of us are trying to leave. Okay. And he just goes right into it. And he says, you know, there once was this American. And he was an irresistible man, charming, reddish, brownish, curled hair. There was just something about him.

You could tell he was a rising star. And one summer, this young American was on vacation, was touring in the French Riviera. And he was sitting out at a bistro table enjoying breakfast when a gentleman passed by, a French aristocrat. And on the air that followed him was this scent. And the young man knew he had to have it. So we approached the man. His name was foie qua. I don't speak French, so I'm hoping.

That's just how I'm going to say it. Okay. foie qua and he he begged him to please share the name of the scent well the aristocrat um actually it was his own scent he dabbled in perfume making said he doesn't sell the perfumes the american was able to persuade him to give him a small bottle so when the young american went back to the united states if he was irresistible before he was even more irresistible now and all of his friends wanted some of this cologne Now at this point, I have to say, let me take a break.

I looked over at Michael, my husband, and he hadn't blinked. He was just staring, all right? So the Slovenian sales clerk continued that the young American wrote to the aristocrat and asked if he could please have eight more bottles and one for Bob. And at this point, the sales clerk paused and said, Now, perhaps you know this American. You may know him as John. Or better yet, J.

F. At that point, I look over at Michael and he just whispers, Kay. And the clerk continues. And he says, yes, it's John F. Kennedy and his brother is Robert. Well, Falkawe, sent the bottles. But as you know, as time went on, trade between France and America became complicated. So to continue to send the samples safely to the United States, Fauqua began hiding them within the pages of books.

He would carve out the pages and nestle the cologne inside. And that is eight and bob. And at this moment, the sales clerk removes the box, revealing a book and opens the book. And there inside is a bottle of eight and five. Bob and my husband says, I'll take it. I will take it. And that was it. Now, of course, the poor sales clerk was so good at selling this stuff. It turns out they didn't have any in stock. It was all, it was all gone. So we couldn't even buy eight and Bob. And I think it's also important to point out that we'd never, we didn't even smell it. Like we didn't even get

pissed with the globe. We had no idea. My husband wanted to buy it. And even after we left the shop suddenly, Michael, who's the super even keeled Southern California guy, wanted, was obsessed with this cologne. He wanted to become, I will never forget him saying, Saks Fifth Avenue needs to hear about this. He wanted to become the North American rep for it and Bob, a cologne he hadn't even smelled. So that is the story. And I have to say, you know, I was stay is, and I'm sure you know this, right?

I talk about storytelling. You talk about what you talk about. And there does come this point, however, where you see one of the things that you know, like you know in your bones that you talk about all the time. But when you see it happen there right before your eyes, it's like learning it all over again or really just, I mean, there's nothing more beautiful than seeing your message, what you, what you preach in the wild doing its thing. And that's what the Ait and Bob story was.

for me. Let's deconstruct it for a bit and then try to get practical for the person who is not a Slovenian sales clerk, but for someone who is leading a team. So I love the story. So thank you for sharing. Why to somebody who, and I grew up in the profession of selling, I still work in the profession of selling. Technically, all of us work in sales, maybe not directly like selling Cologne. but to somebody who had no desire for Cologne, who never worn it, who doesn't like it, I think a lot of guys listening to that story identify with your husband and a lot of the women probably identify with you. And that's part of your ability to tell the story.

I don't, I buy everything online. I don't buy, you know, I don't like to buy a lot of stuff. But when I do, I do it on my phone or the computer. I don't go shopping ever. And I've never, I've been worn Cologne since maybe like high school when I didn't, obviously had no idea what I was doing. So I, I'm curious why, why did that story work? What was it about it that was so compelling for you and your husband? So I think that, first of all, it was, it drew us into this moment, right? Like there was this, he went right into describing a character as we

talked about those four components. Now, he was a smart man and didn't tell us immediately who this character was, but in his description of this character, and what I like to call the normal of the story, which is kind of where you introduce us to the characters, you set the scene, you let us know what's happening. It drew us in. We wanted to know more. And when you're actually telling stories, real stories, which we talked about, your listeners, your audience do get this sense of something's going to happen. Something's going to happen. I want to know what is going to happen.

And so just right there, by setting the scene with that character, it triggered that something's going to happen. I'm listening to a story, which, you know, there's a lot of talk about attention, right, and getting people's attention and keeping people's attention. But the truth is, if you're telling stories, people will give you their attention. You don't have to take it from them. You don't have to get it from them. And that's exactly what happened.

That's exactly what happened. That's exactly why that started to work. Now, the other thing that worked just so well about this story. Now, this story is different than the kinds of stories that leaders might tell, right? Because it's a story about somebody else. It's about, you know, it's kind of like a historical story, if you will. But the clerk did a really good job of then taking us with him to these different places. Like, I've never been to the French Riviera, but he brought me there.

And then even as, you know, I think what works on a meta scale about the story then, as I tell the story of the story, even as I told it to you right there, I took you, I told you about the cobblestone streets. I told you about what, what Slovenia looks like at the holidays. So you participate in that co-creative process in imagining it. And you got into character, too, as you became the kind of the storytelling master, you got into the character of took us into the moment of retelling it. So I know, I realize we're getting super meta here because we're talking about storytelling. We're telling a story.

So you're, but I think it's important. And it was one of my goals when talking to you was to get you to tell a story. Would you could guess why? because I think it illustrates the power. I think we're on video here for those who are listening, and I write basically the entire time when I have these conversations. I've done this now 325 plus times. And the longest period of time probably in my podcast and career where I wasn't writing

was when you were telling that story. Because I was drawn in. I wanted to see the look on your face, the mannerisms you're making with your hands, the smile, everything about. it, but I think that's illustrative of the power of doing this well. So regardless if it's about a sales clerk in another country, Kinder, let's get practical now and shift it to the leadership world of someone running a team or a business. And they have a meeting coming up

next week. And it's typically one of those staff meetings, or at least everyone comes in. they're used to you kind of going through the schedule. Let's help that person change the dynamic of the meeting. Let's help them instead of just saying, well, here's the agenda and just running through the bullet points. Let's help them start it with a compelling story. I had an incredible boss by the name of Brian Miller. He was actually my boss's boss.

And Brian was a master at this. He did it. And I was like so anxious and excited for his meetings, for his town halls, because I knew, wonder what story Brian's going to tell us today. And I was ready. I was ready and I know I wasn't the only one. So what are some of the tips or the advice you would give to that person to become that leader who that literally the people are excited for you to start a meeting?

Yeah. Well, and you said it right there. Right. Of course. This is possible for you. I think that's the first thing that I want to say. And we talked about this. the beginning of our time together, Ryan, where storytelling, I don't, I think it's people think of it

as something that is a talent. And sure, there are some people who are naturally inclined to do this or that, but when it comes to storytelling in business, in your leadership roles, this is a skill. This is something that you can do. This is something you can get better at. It just requires practice and it requires knowing how to do it. So let's break this down. If you are, let's say you have your weekly staff meetings, know that you can't, just like you said right there, Ryan, the longest amount of time during your podcast and all 350 of them that you've done that you didn't write was when I was telling that story. That's what we're going for. And we want people to look forward to coming to your meetings. So here's what I, let me just kind of give you the breakdown of how I would approach it. And it's not

unlike, as you were saying that, it's not unlike a preacher on Sunday, right? Like they have a message that they have to deliver and the best ones can tell the stories that illustrate the message. So that's your first step. As you're looking at your meeting coming up and you have all the information that you have to give them, the checklist, the to-dos, the whatever, take a step back and think about that higher level message that you want them to walk away with. What do you, maybe it's, you know, we got to keep pushing. It's the, it's coming to the end of the quarter. Maybe it is, hey, we've got to pay closer attention to the, the details. Like what is the thing that you really, that, that higher level message that you really

want them to understand better? All right? So once you have that in mind, then take a step back and say, okay, when have I in my life seen this in action? When have I seen a team? Maybe it's, maybe it's, maybe it's, they're having communication. Maybe they're having communication problems. When have you experienced communication problems, right? When is a time, a specific point in time that you've experienced communication problems? Maybe it was when you were working at a different job and had a communication issue there. Maybe it was a communication issue that you had with a coach or with your parents or with your spouse or with your child. Think of, so do you see what we're doing like, okay, communication challenges. When have I seen this in my life? Then when you have

ask yourself that question, when have I seen this in my life? It's possible that that's when you'll start running into some roadblocks. Okay. So let me give you a few strategies of things that you can do here. And number one is to make a list of nouns. And this might be the only strategy I give you, actually, because it's very effective. Make a list of nouns. So if the message you want to deliver is we've got to work on our communication issues, you are trying to find a story in your life about a time that you experienced communication issues, start making a list of the people in your life that you have had to communicate effectively with. So you kind of saw me do that right there as I was giving you the examples. I was actually putting into practice what I teach.

So make a list of the bosses that you can remember. Make a list of the family members where communication is really critical to successful relationships. Make a list of friendships. you know, like, or relationships, personal relationships. Now, again, you may not want to tell the story of when your girlfriend who you were planning to propose to broke up with you because you couldn't communicate, you may not want to go that far. But maybe you do, right? So to make a list of, to make a list of nouns will help you find moments, stories, characters that you can then expand on and turn into.

a story to illustrate that message. And then the other step to this that goes right before putting it together is to really be clear, what do I want my audience to think, feel, no, or do at the end of this story? Can you repeat that real quick? That was pretty quick. You said the fact, yeah. Would I want my audience? To think, feel, no, or do at the end of it.

of this story. For me, for example, in choosing, and I'm sure this is what your developmental editor was looking at when rearranging your stories, for me, at the beginning of my book, I wanted people to completely fall into a story and at the end of it be like, whoa, storytelling is powerful. Jeez, if I could learn how to do that, I'm in. and then they'll keep reading. That is what I wanted my audience to think, feel, no, or do.

And when I had that clear, because what do you want? For the intro chapter of your book, you want people to keep reading the book. Or you want them to read it online and you want them to buy the book, right? So I needed a story that would make them buy the book. And in order for them to buy the book, they had to understand how important storytelling was. So that was the story. So the same is true for the leaders in, for leaders and organizations, be thinking about that. What do you want them to think, feel, no, or do? Okay. I think we have that now. How about using a

story that maybe you read about? You read a great biography about the, like, let's say recently, I read a great biography about the Wright brothers. And I'm from Dayton, Ohio. That's where they had their bicycle shop right down the street. I love using the Wright brothers as an example, because there's a number of different takeaways you can take from that. How about, because I think it's a mix, right? Sometimes you use yourself and your own stories and your own example, and sometimes maybe you'll use something that you've read or studied. Yep.

This is a great question. And this is actually something that isn't in the book, which now makes me think about book number two. Let's start writing it right now. Here we go. Yeah, let's do it. Here we go. I get the transcript on this.

Right, Ryan? Okay, good. Yeah. All right. So here's chapter seven of the book number two. I call this the bystander story where it isn't your story, but maybe it's a story that you read or that you heard. And it's a story that was meaningful. It was a story that was meaningful to you. Now, there's a few things that, so that is entirely fair game, right? Like that is, so go ahead, tell other people's stories, stories that you've read, stories that have meant something to you. Absolutely. A few things that I would like to add to that. Since we are talking about, you know, this would perhaps be a leadership message, remember, one of our underlying goals here is to connect to you with the people that you're leading. And so an important piece of the bystander story is instead of just going right into the story,

as it is, the Wright brothers, for example, you kind of put, I caught like two little bookends. on the story that you start with your story about loving the story. So you can say, you know, welcome to the meeting. We're so happy you're here. You know what? I will never forget this book that I read. It was a story about the Wright brothers. Now you have to understand.

I grew up and then you tell a little bit, you paint a little bit of that picture of Dayton, Ohio. You have to tell the story of your love of this story because then it becomes, as you're telling the story, story, this also then becomes your story because they're seeing it through your eyes. So you would tell the opening, which is your story about, then you would tell the story. And it doesn't have to be long. It just has to be enough that they understand that this is your perspective of this story, right?

And you tell the story. Then at the end, I mentioned the bookend. As you end the story about the Wright brothers, you come out and say, you know, I remember reading that and thinking to myself, this, this, this, and this. And isn't that applicable for this, this, this and this? So that they will have gotten the lesson from the story. But then at the end, you're reiterating that knowledge and crafting that what you want them to think, feel know or do at the end of that story. So the story starts with you. Then it's the story. Then it's your perspective and what they should take away at the end of the story. So that's a key. And this is also then really

exciting because part of your organization will be better if you are teaching your people to also become storytellers. Like the more stories, the better. So if you are sharing these stories in that way, these bystander stories, then what ends up happening for them? When they hear one of your stories that they love, that was just you, then they can take that same framework and tell your story but through their eyes. I'll never forget the day. It was. There was a Monday morning meeting. I hate going to Monday morning meetings. They're so boring.

There's so many other things that I want to do. Monday mornings are just miserable in the first place. But then Ryan stood up in front of the room. And he told us the story of his first day of first grade when he wet his pants. I'm just kidding. I don't know what I don't know what it was. That was off camera. You shouldn't share that now, Kendra.

Yeah, I know. Okay. I'm sorry. But that they can tell their by Sanders stories about you. That was not his story. No, it's all good. One of the things, I saw you speaking, a video of it, and you just touched on this topic, and it's a little bit of left term, but it still, I think, applies.

There are a lot of people listening who work in the profession of selling in some way, shape, or form. And as we mentioned before, we're on sales, even if you don't have a quota, you're still selling yourself, you're selling ideas, you're working across boundaries, you're trying to get things done at a business. Influence. Influence. So one of the topics you brought up in the video I was watching was how to handle price conversations. And this can be tough for people. Even experienced successful professionals struggle at times with this price conversation. And so how would you use the techniques and the tools that you've written about and that you share for the people who they get to that part of the proposal or the conversation where everything's been.

great. And the people are like, okay, cool. Now, what does it cost? And you get a little nervous and you're not sure what to say. Why, one, why do we feel that way? And two, how can we use the power of storytelling to make that part of the conversation better? Yeah. Nope. That's a great question. And I think it actually starts way before that part of the conversation. Because there are, I mean, I know that I know that I've been sold by stories before, right? Where if you're, if the conversation that you're having at the very beginning starts with a compelling story that again illustrates, you know, you have in your mind what you want them to think, feel no or do, you want them to maybe in a sales situation, you want them to feel

the pain through the story of what it would be like if they didn't have this thing, right? Because they won't know the pain unless they say no to you. Right. So what stories can you tell to help them feel the pain through the story so that when you get to the end of it, they're so adverse to doing that and they know you are the solution that they say yes. And the other thing to remember is we don't buy the thing. I know this. I know this. This is something that Ryan Estes actually, now as I'm saying this, he talks about this in a different way. But our decisions are not often based on logic. They're not based on price.

If you are telling the right stories of what this thing will really mean in their lives about the problems that will no longer be in existence, if they say yes to this idea or this product or this initiative or this service, if you're telling those stories and illustrate. the true value of what it is you have to offer, they will already be sold, right? That that that, that sale has already happened. They, they want it. And as long as your price, I mean, I doubt there's anyone listening who would say, yeah, we are way overpriced. And I guess that's the other thing is, is you have to believe that in your heart too. You know, like you, it has to start with you and telling these stories of how obvious this decision is. So that by the time you get to the price, it's already been sold. The price doesn't matter. How do you, so let's, for example, play the role that we probably both have these

conversations on a regular race, or you may have a team that handles it for you, but I handle a lot of these myself. Somebody inquires. They send you an email about Kendra. We want you to come to our big event. There'll be 2,000 people there. We want you to speak. I'll make up a number for a rate. And they say, we'd love to have you. We've done our research. We're deciding between you and four other speakers, what is your rate? And so do you say, well, my rate's $100,000 or do you start telling a story? Like, what do you do in that moment? Here's the thing.

I think you have to give them the number, right? Like, when they ask for the number, it's time to tell them. Okay. It's time to tell them the number. So let's play it. So you say, and I'll make up the numbers, you say it's $100,000. And they say, Kendra, ah, that's, that's too steep. for us, we could, there are cheaper options, uh, that still we think we'll do a great job.

So I don't, I don't know. That seems too expensive for us. Well, I mean, okay. So then you tell the, so then I've actually had this, uh, I'm certain you've had this conversation via email. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And you go back to the old, uh, sales technique and saying, you know, I, I completely understand.

Mm-hmm. And sometimes budget. don't line up. I think it's important that we acknowledge that, right? Like, that's, it maybe it makes me a bad salesperson, but that's, it's the truth, right? Sometimes they just don't line up. Sure, sure, sure. So to say, and then I once, I told the, I had to tell this a story because they were just, yeah, they just weren't sure about the, the value of it. Yeah. And I guess the, the question is, what is the pain? What is the pain that this potential company or conference is going to, feel or the audience members are going to feel by not having you be the speaker, right?

That's like, that's what we're trying to get to is you said, I want to share the, the pain that they will feel by not buying whatever the product is. And in this case, the product is you being the speaker at the event. So how do you tell that story? Yeah, I mean, it's a tough story to tell. So one of the stories that I went to was I told the story of another client, of an audience. And it turned out a client audience member. And they had written me an email and said, you know, I saw the name of the session.

I've heard about storytelling before. And I really thought that this would be the time during the conference where I caught up on my emails. And this is an actual message that I got from somebody. And then the woman said, who is the who is very high up and a very large. technical company said, but as you began to speak, I realized that I'd never heard it told this way before. It has never made more sense to me. It has never been more actionable to me. And I am so glad that I didn't check my emails in the lobby. You have changed the way we will do our business. And so I tell, I tell, I tell that story. And actually, the scenario where I had this

happened is we'd finished the call. They knew my, they knew my fee. And they weren't booking, they weren't booking me. And I had to write them back and say, hey, how's it going? Is this, you know, where are we at, where you are with your decisions? And they were. They were choosing between three other storytelling speakers. And I knew that. So I had to illustrate to them that I was the one that could do this better. And of course, here's the other, here's a side note. Your story should always be true, Ryan. So this was an email that I had just received. Sure. So they said, we just need, we just were, we just need a little bit more. And I didn't know if they meant more time. I didn't know if they meant more information. So I told them that story and I got the job and actually now thinking

that I've worked with them many times since. In big ways. Yeah. Very cool. But it is, It is important in those moments. I think this is important to note is to know what the, and this is the power of a skilled salesperson, to know the nuances of those objections, to know the nuances of what they're thinking about. I knew that they were deciding between three other storytelling speakers. So I already knew that they understood the value of storytelling. If, let's say, they were deciding between me and somebody who talks about

you know, just straight up leadership and someone who talks about time management, my story that I would have told would have been more about the importance of storytelling and less about my ability to talk about storytelling. Does that make sense? Yeah. Was there more to it, though, because I would imagine most professional speakers have a number of really powerful testimonials. I have pages of those that I share. So all true, right? And on video as well as to back them up. So there had to be more.

I mean, I would imagine there had to be more unless for some reason the other speakers had nothing to back them up testimonial-wise. Because I think for the salesperson listening, I do appreciate this story. I think it's great. However, all like Salesforce and Oracle and you name these companies, they all have amazing testimonials from huge, incredibly successful clients. So most cases, it's necessary and it's certainly good to have that. You have to have it.

But I don't know if it's enough. Yeah. So I think this is where it ties back to the way that I framed that story. So I didn't just say, well, I didn't, and I didn't just email. Here's the email that I got from the person. I started the story with me. Like I, you know, it's funny that you say this. I know that you, and I just received an email.

I was at this event. Like, I built out, I built out this. I included the authentic emotion of the burn when somebody was like, I was going to check my email during your presentation because they were asking me. Like, so in that way, it's a little bit different. They were buying me. And then additionally, I was pretty sure that they wanted to say yes. I'm pretty sure they wanted to say yes to me.

And I just needed that one extra nudge to push him over the edge. Maybe I was more. Maybe I was whatever it was. I just needed that one extra thing to push them a little bit further. But yeah, a testimonial of, oh, Ryan was great. Our audience was engaged. He was funny. He, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Thank you so much, Ryan. That's all, you know, this is where this is the difference between a testimonial in a story. Right? Like I, and as I told this story, I painted the picture of me as an identifiable character. I painted the picture of the woman in the back, you know, the back of the room that was, you know, like who she was, you know, just gave them a sense, not necessarily what she looked like because I didn't meet her, but so they could picture this person, skeptical person.

And having that moment in there, one of the moments was me reading that email. One of the moments was her watching me on the stage and not, you know, sending more email messages, right? So it wasn't just the standard check, check, check, check. It had those other components in it. Yep. Well, Kendra, thank you so much for sharing today. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Where would you send my listeners to learn more about you online?

I am at Kendra Hall.com. I do a lot of storytelling on Instagram where I'm at Kendra Hall. I'm on LinkedIn. I think you can probably find me, Kendra Hall. Kendra with an I-K-I-N-D-R-A. And yeah, that's where I tell most of my stories. And the book is called Stories That Stick, How Storytelling Can Captivate Customers, Influence Audiences and Transform Your Business.

Yep, and it's at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, any place that books are sold. Awesome. Well, Kendra, thank you again for being here, and I'd love to continue our dialogue as we both progress. Yes, I would love that too, Ryan. Thank you. All right. Thanks. I really enjoyed that conversation with Kendra. I found her to be a ball of energy, huge smile, hand movements all around, getting into her stories, and how she took us inside that moment in Slovenia with her husband. and the power behind someone who is an effective storyteller. We can all draw from that to be better in our daily lives, whether it's at home or at work,

or it's leading a meeting of how to better start one, to be like one of my favorite bosses, Brian Miller, that I was waiting on the edge of my seat to see what story is Brian going to tell today that I'm going to be able to use to make me better at my work. I thought Kinder did this in a fantastic way, as well as even a potentially uncomfortable topic of price conversations and sharing how the person can't live without the service or product that you provide. So much here.

I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. If so, I would love it if you would tell a friend or two. Word of mouth marketing is the best kind of marketing. One person at a time, it continues to grow. For that, I am forever grateful. I'll talk with you next week. Can't wait. This episode is brought to you by Seeing Around Corners, the new book by Rita McGrath, a global expert on strategy and innovation.

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