The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 332: David Brixey & Doug Meyer LIVE! - How To Build & Sustain A Great Partnership

Episode Date: October 6, 2019

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Ep # 332: David Brixey & Doug Meyer LIVE! - How To Build A Business From The Ground Up Full show notes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com This episode was recorded in front of 150 of our closest friends, family, and clients in Dayton, Ohio. Doug Meyer formed Brixey & Meyer alongside Dave Brixey with a dream to give clients a different way of working with their tax professionals. In his role as Managing Director, Doug serves as a trusted business advisor to Business Owners, CEOs, CFOs and Boards of Advisors, driving value and accountability in the following strategic areas: succession & ownership planning, strategic planning, owners agreement structures, compensation planning, family business advisory & issue mediation, professional management practices, mergers & acquisition strategy, and family charter implementation. David Brixey formed Brixey & Meyer with Doug Meyer in 2002 utilizing his insatiable entrepreneurial spirit and his financial skills gained at Ernst & Young. He is also the co-founder and Managing Director of Brixey Meyer Capital, a lower middle market private investment firm.  Since 2008, Dave has been personally involved in investing in small business to lower middle market as well as venture capital. Brixey & Meyer is recognized as a leading provider of accounting and business advisory services in the Midwest.

We like to win. Winning is something we really like to do. But it's about winning the right way and winning under the culture. And it's really cool to see our clients win. That's a lot of fun to see that and be part of that and be part of their team. So I love when people introduce this as this is Brixie and Meyer, they're our advisors or they're, you know, it's part of our strategy team. I don't get introduced a lot as peers are accounting. And I think we differentiate ourselves in that way and that's what makes it fun.

Welcome to the Learning Leaders Show presented by Brixie and Meyer. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text learners to 4422 in order to join tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world. Receive Mindful Monday updates, what I'm reading, writing, watching, thinking about. Also give you the opportunity to be part of my book launch team. Text learners to 4422. Now on to tonight's featured leaders, and this was a special.

recorded in front of 150 of our closest friends. My guest are Dave, Bricksey, and Doug Meyer, the founders of Bricksey and Meyer. A few of the topics we discussed, why they chose to leave Ernst & Young over 17 years ago to start their own firm. Then giving each other the freedom to fail and how this is so beneficial

when building a culture where people love to come to work. Then learning how to become, as the firm has grown from just them to now more than 70 people. Then how to build lasting real relationships with their clients. This is the opposite of the transactional nature of the industry. The hiring process, including the key qualities needed to thrive at Bricksey and Meyer, which I would know firsthand since it's where I work, then how to maintain a successful partnership for 17 plus years.

This goes beyond just the best of business world and I think the lessons they share apply in personal relationships as well as in the business world. Ladies and gentlemen, this one is so special and so good with Dave Bricksey and Doug Meyer. I'd love for you to give a very warm welcome to Dave Brixie and Doug Meyer. Ready. Let's go. And by way, you notice that they're wearing matching coats today. So Dave, can you explain why did you guys is this the uniform or what's going on well it's probably a little bit of a story here that I need to start from the beginning as Ryan mentioned we've won several awards together over the years and I've learned the hard way to take the stage with Doug Meyer

that actually started initially at one of the best places to work awards banquets and I took the stage and was going to speak first. And as I got up there, as you all know, Doug is about 6'8, and I stood up in front of the group and I started with saying that I wasn't nearly as short as I looked standing next to Doug Meyer and everyone laughed and I said what I needed to say. And then Doug took the mic last. And Doug started with, I'm not nearly as skinny as I look standing next to Dave. And the place came undone. So I I said, I will not go first next year. I really don't like getting in front of a group of people.

And the next year, when we won the award, I said, let's kind of decide who we're gonna thank and what I'm gonna cover and what you're gonna cover. And we were sitting at separate tables and two minutes before we took the stage, Doug said, hey, what was it that I was covering? And I told him, and I was kind of irritated that he didn't recall that.

So he went first, and as he took the stage, he thanked all the people that I was supposed to thank, and then said to three comments. Just so easy. And I was standing there without anything. So at that point, I said, I'm really not gonna take the stage with Doug anymore. So to answer your question,

last night Doug called me and said, hey, I went out and I was shopping for a coat, and they asked, if I was your business partner and said that you had just recently purchased the same jacket. It's a plum-colored jacket, and I just want to make sure we're not wearing the same thing tomorrow night. So today I went in to pick up my jackets because we had both picked up the same jacket. Different size. And today, I thought I would start with this jacket.

I thought he was trying to throw me off. I have the other jacket in the car, which I was going to put on if he wore that. So that's the story. All right. Well, as you can tell, these guys have a unique relationship, and that's part of what we're going to talk about today. But I love to take it back to the beginning and start with you two as a couple, because that's really what you are. This is a, it is an incredible relationship. It's got really uncomfortable already. That's the whole point, because part of the deal here is I wanted to make you guys as uncomfortable as possible.

I know we talked about a few things, but we'll see what we stick to here. But no, in all honesty, you guys left a big four firm and decided to start your own. And if you want to start, Dave, initially, why? There's much easier routes to take when you leave the big four. You could go somewhere else, another big firm, you could go to another established firm. Instead, you guys elect to start your own. What was it in you that made you want to do that? I think it's just an entrepreneurial spirit that I think started early.

in my life and I was proud to say we worked at Ernst & Young which we felt was the top firm in the world international big six firm when we started and through consolidations and and a failure it ended up being what we kind of called today the final four big four but we saw a firm that did so many things so well Ryan that that we thought wow if we could take that and then there were things that that firm maybe didn't do as well and that normally are regularly centered around people and how they treated people. And that was a big part of what made us decide to start the firm. And build the type of place, organization,

where you want to come to work every day. What about you, Doug? What do you think? Yeah, I think it's very similar. I mean, my experience, I went to EY with the mindset of two and out. I'm going to get two years of experiencing it out. And I was just learning so much, and it was fantastic, and really enjoyed the growth.

But mine was probably more rooted from somebody sitting very close to me right now, and that's my wife. She obviously knows me better than anybody, and she knows my entrepreneurial spirit, my bullheadedness, and encouraged me to go out and start a firm with Dave. And I reminded her that I had a non-compete. I had zero clients, and we had a daughter about to start parochial school. And she looked at me and said, I'm working nursing. I can work as many hours as need be. this is what you're meant to do, go do it.

And that was, I remember that conversation like it was yesterday. Like any smart husband, I listened to my wife. And, you know, from there, that was really the motivating factor for me to do it. And really what I wanted to do was just bring a different approach to the marketplace than what we were seeing with E&Y. And I wanted to do it with Dave because we are total opposites, totally different. It's real comfortable to go into business with somebody just like, like you, right? But I didn't want that route. I wanted somebody that was going to change me,

stretch me, challenge me, take me outside my comfort zone. And that continues today in many regards. And that's really why we wanted to do. It was just that passion to serve the market differently. Treat our Berksie Meyer family and build that differently. And I was just excited to go do something with somebody that shared the same values as I did, but had a totally different path of how to go. You could have chosen anybody to work with. Why get married to him? When I left Ernst & Young, I had started out initially on my own,

and Doug and I had developed a very, very close friendship over the years at Ernst & Young. We started together about three months apart at Ernst & Young, and we were Cube partners across from one another and developed a friendship. Sometimes that was shooting rubber bands at each other, and that continued until Doug hit the managing partner coming around the corner one day thinking it was me. And but Doug and I, you know, shared a friendship.

We did exactly what everybody tells you not to do, and that is go into business with your best friend. But Doug and I shared, as Doug said, the values and the culture that we wanted to develop as we grew the firm. You guys are both, as I've learned over the past five years, I guess, getting to know you insanely competitive. He's used to lose him to me. Borderline, you know, at times, you know, you're on the edge of that being healthy and unhealthy. Where does, what I'm curious, where does this competitiveness come from, and how do you think it's helped you as you work to build the firm? Start with you done. Sure, I think part of my competitiveness comes from my upbringing with my parents.

You talk about two people that had the strongest work ethic that I've ever seen and to be around that and be exposed to that growing up with something that I admired. And when you have a strong work ethic, you're also extremely competitive in what you do. And for me, it's just part of it is I love sports. You know, growing up, I love playing sports. And just when you look at everything and you approach everything as that competition, you just find that you have more passion and more. fun. And Dave and I are very competitive. We have a, our first piece of office furniture was a ping pong table. We still have a ping pong table to this date. We've learned our limits on some of the things we can and can't do together from a competitive nature. But I think some of it is

just the upbringing, you know, from the parents and then just that desire to win. Yeah. Well, how do you think that has helped the firm be successful over the past 17 years, the thought that of your competitive nature? I think there's just an undying desire to win, and it's shared by both of us. We don't like second place. Doug's used to it a lot more than I am, but we don't like to lose. With Brian, I guess, to illustrate that a little bit, and you brought up the point that sometimes it's almost unhealthy. It got to a point where Doug and I couldn't leave the office at the same time because it turned.

turned into a little bit of a race on the way home. So we had to stop that. And my four-cylinder Honda was beating his Corvette at home. You guys are exactly the same, the Corvette and the four-cylinder Honda. He got a good lane on me at one point. But that's manifest itself in other ways as well. I remember one time Doug and I did a triathlon together. And it was six miles in a canoe, six miles running, and then an 18-mile bike ride.

Doug was a stronger runner than I was, so I was about 10 minutes behind him when I took off on the bike. And as you can probably appreciate, Doug has a very unique physique from behind on a bicycle. And we were in the last two miles of the race, and I could see Doug and I could make him out in front of me. And I remember reaching down and grabbing my Gatorade and finishing my last swing and say, okay, here it is, it's on. So I waited, and as we were about a mile out, I took off.

I went past him and just kind of hit him on the behind. And I heard a scream where he said, no. But yes, it's been a lot of fun. You guys started as co-managing directors, correct? That was the first initial role. This may be more for others who are working in partnerships or in business. How does that work itself out? Because I would imagine you don't agree about everything.

So what's the decision-making process like early on and how do you make sure there isn't friction, or at least enough friction to cause the firm to potentially collapse, between two kind of alpha-type guys, competitive guys, grinders to say, well, no, I think this, I think that. How did you guys work that out as co-managing directors? Sure. I think it starts with just respect. You know, I mean, I love Dave.

You know, he's my brother from a different mother. have a ton of respect for him. And I know that we're not always going to align. So sometimes you see people in partnerships or in arguments. It's about being right or being convinced to be right. And it's just a balance and a trust, and a tremendous amount of trust and leading with that trust and just knowing that there's going to be differences

and giving each other the freedom to fail. And I think that's really just setting that out from the beginning of saying, hey, let's not sweat the small stuff. Let's figure out, you know, what are mission critical issues and I think the mutual respect that we have for one another, it just hasn't been an issue because we've always could see when somebody felt strongly enough. We don't care about getting our way or being right.

It's just the respect and say, hey, we're going to make decisions and we're going to screw up, and that's okay. We're never going to grow if we don't allow each other that ability to fail. What do you think? Oh, go ahead. And my last point is, you know, as a partner, when your partner fails, the first reaction is I want to go pay. him up. I want to help him up. I want to get up. Let's go. Let's go.

So you haven't been moments where you and Kirsten are having a really kind of tough talk and you're like, I can't believe Dave did that. Oh, absolutely all the time. That was on the way over here. I mean, that's still daily we have these. I mean, you started when you introduced us and said, you know, how you came to us and said we wanted to do a podcast. And my initial response was like, no, nobody wants to hear this. If you want me to tell the, tell the story. So the initial idea I had was I love seeing the banter. I also know, I speak to every new hire that comes into the firm. And one of the things I ask them is, you know, have you got a chance to talk with Doug or Dave?

And now the firm has grown and you guys are very busy. Oftentimes it's no, I haven't. And so I wanted the newer people to get to know you. So initially it was, let's just record us three in our executive conference room. We'll record a podcast together. It'll be fun. And then I'll release it on my learning leader feed and that will be it. And then we can tell people, listen to it.

you get to know them. And then it went from, let's do it in front of our team members at one of our offices for Brickstein-Myers so all of our team members could watch and get to see it. And then I thought, and there's maybe a third idea here is what if we made it a real event?

And when I said that, Doug did this, he looked down, and Dave's eyes got so big and excited. He was like, that's what we're going to do. Let's do it at UD Arena with $1,000. It would be awesome. And Doug goes, It's usually Doug making up the stories, Ryan.

I'm belching a little bit. But no, Dave, we were excited. Just to illustrate the differences in personality, I think, where I think I was more on your side, by the way. I wanted a big thing, too. And Doug was like, let's just do it by ourselves in a small little room, quietly talked. So I think that was the initial thought behind how this whole thing came together.

That's right. Thoughts? Well, to answer your question, I mean, when we started off as co-managing directors of the accounting firm, Doug and I, just out of mutual respect, tried to make every decision together. And as we did that, you started to see where that becomes very inefficient.

But there was that respect there. And over time, I remember a discussion we had on the way to a client one day where we said, let's develop A, B, and C decisions. And these are A decisions, these are things we do together. Here's B decisions, and then C decisions. And that evolved over time as we were managing different lines of the firm.

And over time, it developed in such a way that I can tell you right now what Doug's thinking, as evidenced by our coats. Why don't you play poker with me if you read my mind? I should. But that's one thing you normally win at. But anyways, as we developed and grew, it's really become a scenario where there's complete trust, complete respect, complete ability for us to allow. allow the other to do what they want to do.

And quite honestly, a few years ago, we actually moved into Bricksey and Meyer Capital. And we have Bricksey and Meyer, the accounting firm and consulting firm. We've got the capital side, which has been more of my passion. And now we both lead separate practices, but with complete trust in how things are being managed. Because you both have obviously a big stake

in both of the businesses. That kind of brings me to the point of how we've evolved and how how your roles have evolved. Now you're the managing director of the consulting and accounting side and you run BMC, Berksley-Myer Capital. How has that evolution happened? Like what? Yeah. How are you okay with saying, wait a second, Dave, I kind of need you here. Or you said, no, you go follow your passion and I'm okay to run the show over here. Yeah, I think two prong to that is from Dave's standpoint, I saw where his strengths were and his passion and you know it was like I was I'm his biggest supporter to say hey go focus and get in

that area that's maximizing your strength that's really going to drive a ton of value for the local economy do that I think the harder challenge that we've had at times is evolving as our individuals into leaders that's a tough role when you start the firm so when we started the firm we were literally smiling and dialing we were going out on the sales call we were for doing all the work ourselves, processing the returns, doing the billing, collecting the AR, and then as your firm continues to grow, the firm needs you in a different leadership role,

and that's tough. And that's not something I've been great at at times, is transitioning fast enough. I had a board member at one time say, what's your most important client? And I was like, well, that's asking me, like, what my most important kid is. They're all important, and they were like,

well, who do you feel you need to spend the most time with? I named the client name, and they said, Well, until you answer that question, my most important client is Bricksey and Meyer, you're not going to be a great leader. And that was really helpful for me because you go to school and you learn and a skill. You spend nine years at EY developing that skill. That's how you get started. But to evolve into a leadership role has been a challenge over time and something that we're still continuing, always evolving. What view?

The evolution. Well, it's been fun. But that evolution, you know, has been one that, you know, speaking of Doug and the role that he's playing now, it's been exciting to watch Doug evolve as a leader. And where we started and where the business is today has been, you know, exciting. But I'm just very proud of the role that Doug's serving in and the development that I've seen within each and every year. It's been amazing. How is that, though? I mean, that's a big change.

You go from being a player, essentially, to a player coach with more emphasis on the coaching part. What do you do? And there are people in here that are probably going through this right now, people listening going through this right now. What are some of the ways you've been able to, and I know you're going to give the humble answer, I'm going to ask you to not do that. But what are some of the ways that you worked to become a much better leader, less of a player,

more of a coach. I think asking for help and seeking that out. I have many people that play mentor roles to me. Some of those people don't even know they do that. Just looking at people that have been successful and being curious of how they've been able to sustain their success, how they've been able to transition. I read a heck of a lot more than I ever used to. I had this view of business books as foolish to read when I started the firm. It's like just hard work, just go. Just go really fast work really hard and you'll be fine. So just evolving to reading a lot more, listen to a lot more podcasts. And then I just reach out and try to find help with areas that I'm struggling with and not be bashful. And then, you know, the other way that you can, I've, it's helped me from a

leadership and continue to grow. You go to lunch with a Ryan Hawk who's looking for a job and you're like, hey man, come and be part of my team, you know, and, you know, because you've been a huge help for me in the short period. You've been here. Thank you. What, Dave, for you making a transition of sorts from being all in on Brixton Meyer to then Bricksy Meyer Capital, which is where your passion is and you spend a great deal of your time. How has, I guess one, why, why was that something you wanted to do and how has that transition been? I guess the why is I was following my heart.

I was following what I was passionate about and being fortunate enough to have a partner that would support that. Secondly, and I think a lot of them are here tonight, but one thing that we've done well is we've hired well. We've brought the right people onto the team, and Doug and I couldn't be more proud of the team and their capabilities. And quite honestly, when we started the firm, I was overseeing the consulting side, the audit side, and our CFO services group.

And as time passed, and some of them are here tonight, but we brought in teams. team members that were better, faster, and stronger than I was in each of those areas. So it made that transition very effective and, you know, overall very, it enabled me to move into what I'm doing today. You mentioned the people and that's one of the, one of the key things I've learned over the past two years is just the amazing caliber of every person you come across that works at the firm. And I'm truly, truly mean that.

What that does not happen by accident and I'm curious what is your thought process around bringing on top talent supporting them developing them making sure they're able to flourish within their roles because it's across the board when I look around and see I have I have so much I get so much joy out of maybe being able to make an introduction to all these other impressive people in different service lines from people that I work with what's your thought process around making sure that that happens. Yeah, I think first is opportunistic. I mean, a lot of our people as part of our team weren't necessarily a position or an open role we were looking to fill. It was just having conversations with somebody that was in the marketplace that were just like, there's a great opportunity. Let's do this together. Why don't you become part of our team? You know, I look at it from our team members. There are Brixie Meyer family.

They mean everything to me. I care about them genuinely. We start meetings by personal good news. I want to know what's going on. You know, what are the personal good news? in one of our last meetings, I tried something different just to hear, and I asked everybody to thank somebody in this room, and I wasn't sure how I would go.

And sitting back, it was just awesome to hear people genuinely thanking another team member in the room, whether it's helping them through a personal issue, helping them with a work-related issue. But for Dave and I, that is a huge responsibility if somebody joins our team and trusts us. I take so much pride in that, and that's something I want to make sure it's a rewarding, experience because, you know, if work is the most important thing to you, you're a boring person. I don't want you on our team. Plain and simple. You've got to be an awesome father, mom, wife, sister, brother, friend, whatever that is in life. I want to create an environment that you feel

energized when you leave work and you're really, really good at what's most important in life. And if you just have a passion and an interest and want to make an impact, you're going to fit in very well. We were asked by our board to say when we were talking through an issue one time, they said, okay, your revenue was X. If you did not have a human capital constraint, what could your revenue have been? And I genuinely was like, it could have been two and a half times if we would have just hired everybody that came in. But we're very, very selective in that process, and we want to grow strategically and with the right culture. Yeah, culture first. A lot of people say that. How do you actually do that?

Well, it starts with what I talked about a little earlier, where I talked about a previous firm that we were at said people first. Yep. But when I left, I had 2,600 chargeable hours that year. Translate that for us non-kind of account. So normal work year would be 2080 hours, and that includes your vacation and your CPE time or your education time, your holidays, et cetera. So you back that down, which would give you about 1,600 hours that you'd work. in a year and I had probably a thousand hours of overtime. When Doug and I started the firm, we said, okay, if we're going to create a different culture, that needs to start with what

our expectations are for our team. So we took into consideration vacation time, holidays, things of that nature, to try to make sure that we provided the right balance. We want a balanced team. We've been very encouraging of our team coaching, leaving the office to go and do that and to give back in the communities we serve, which is one of our core values, and just really trying to support that balance in our team. Work hard, play harder has been one of our mottoes since we started.

Yeah. But it hasn't all been perfect. Never is for 17 years. There had to have been some really, I would imagine, scary moments, some tough times. Economy hasn't always been perfect throughout the course of that time. I don't know, you want to take it first. What how have you dealt with the tough moments or maybe you share a time that's been tough that you said, I've had to really grind.

And this was challenging to stick to our values when when things got tough. How have you, how have you been able to do that? I probably, when you ask that question, Ryan, I think back to the downturn in the economy. Yep. And, you know, 2009, 10 in that time frame. And our firm was always much more focused. on adding value with our clients, not the traditional services initially speaking. And what we started to feel was anytime the economy was going up or going down, we were

very busy trying to help our clients through that process. But what we really hadn't experienced was when it went down but then plateaued and stayed down. And so Doug and I were doing very, very well before that. We were growing our team. We had, I think probably 25 to 30 employees maybe at the time. And we went into that recessionary period. And I think we had one month, Ryan, where four large engagements terminated.

And they were engagements where, in many cases, we were providing a three to one value on what we were doing, the cost they were paying to the benefit that they were getting. But we saw an economy where things slowed to. to a point where they just, everybody bailed. And so Doug and I were in a situation where we had a lot of people on the bench, as we call it, without new engagements. You're paying them a salary, but there's no work.

That's correct. So we had some difficult discussions through that time where we recognized that we had built an amazing team. There was a lot of talent, people that we didn't want to lose. And I remember Doug and I, through that process said, we're going to keep this team. We know this is going to come back.

And we took about a 50% reduction in our incomes to enable the firm to get through that process. And I don't know that we've shared that a lot, but we took a- You guys cut your pay. We took a big haircut for about three to four years. Really? And it was a big hole to dig out of it. I mean, is that normal? I don't know.

I mean, I think it's part of business ownership. It's part of that risk. It's why a lot of people don't want to be a business owner because most people, when you look at business owners or hear stories or listen to podcasts, it's success stories. It's great. It's rainbows and unicorns. But man, being a business owner is hard. Being a business owner can be very lonely as well at times. And it's one of those risks that you have to be, before you enter into that, you have to be willing to take.

And boy, I'll do this in a heartbeat again because the rewards to me and seeing our team's success and seeing the growth is well. worth it, but you have to be able to take the bad with good. That's kind of a sad time. I'd rather maybe bring it up a mitt a bit. So in our invite to everybody here, if you saw it, I think one of the first lines or two in there mentioned that my friend Dave here has spent time in a ballerina two-two sitting out in the yard outside the office. maybe I wasn't here at that time. I've heard kind of bits and pieces. I think I'd love to hear that. What's this all about? It was one of the best days of my life, by the way. I will try to share this story as quickly as possible, but it's good. So Dave decided to enter a bet with his friend and neighbor, Will.

And it was a wait-laws. Will here? No, Will's not here. Okay, sorry. Go ahead. Will and him had a weight loss bet. And so Dave starts talking about it. Dave starts taking all these stupid vitamins. He's sweating worse than he's sweating now in the office all the time. And he was talking about, man, I'm going to beat Will. I'm going to beat Will. And what I'm doing is he's going to have to mow my grass in a speedo at night. And I'm getting these lights. I'm getting kegs. I'm going to have a band. You know, back to how you talked about the U.D event for this. He had it all blown out. and that's how he kept talking about. Well, then he comes in the office one day, a few days, and there's nothing.

I'm hearing nothing about this weight loss. So I call Will, and I said, what's going on? He goes, I got him. I won. And he goes, I need help. I said, oh, I got this. Let me take care of this. So Dave was gone to have to wear a tutu.

That was all that Dave agreed to. Didn't know anymore. And so, but Dave didn't know that I knew. and so what I did for, we figured out of time, we had to surprise him, we can't let him prepare for this, so it had to be like on the spot, you're on, go. So I said, all right, let me work on this. So I went to Dave and said, hey, I was just at a cookout. I met a Bengals cheerleader.

She's opening up a salon, and she needs help. I'm swamped right now. I can't take it. Do you mind taking it? And he was like, sure. And he goes, what's her name? Well, I already did the research online and found a name. Bigel Steelers.

In a city. You had a feeling this might excite him. Yeah. That's an understatement. I found one and it was near my hometown in Versailles. It said Versailles, Ohio. So I picked her name knowing the first thing he's going to do is run to his office and look this up. And so he's like, okay.

And then he goes into his office and he yells, Meyer, get over here. He's like, is this her? And I was like, well, her hair's a little shorter now. But yeah, that's her. And so he's all stoked about this. meeting and I totally forgot as time goes on and I'm at a client in Cincinnati he's like hey I need to meet today you know how we just talked about A B and C decisions we have an A we need to meet and I'm like okay I'll meet you and we walked into I met him for lunch and I walked in set next to him I'm like

dude did you take a shower in Cologne you smell horrible I barely could breathe he's excited man he has this he has no I'm not he has this print out of you know women-owned business startups he's prepping to just ready to rock and I'm trying to trying to keep it together so he comes back to the office they tell him that she's there and what was there was a video camera a two-two laid out and will and he says you're on now put this on so Dave had to put this on I think we have a little picture here I don't know how well you can see this but Dave stood at the street corner and we also

had the Dayton Daily News lined up to come and take a photo. This photo, so then the next... You look good, though. I mean, you're pretty rough. We're missing, well, that was many pounds ago, but, you know, so Dave does this. This face is perfect. We think it's over. You know, it's like, okay, that was funny. So the next day was a Saturday morning. I was in the office, just clean up some stuff, and he walks in, and he has this fear of God in his eyes. And I'm like, what's wrong is, we're done. We are done. It's over. Our firm's going to go out of business. I'm like, what are you talking about? He was, have you seen the paper? And I was like, no. And he puts this on my desk. The only time in my life, I've physically fallen out of a chair laughing.

So we think it's over. And then it made national news. He got a call from the tonight show to come on to the tonight show. He was, in one of the national news, he was the second highest rated picture of the week. Number three was Nancy Reagan crying over Ronald Reagan's tomb. Number two is Dave Brickson in a tutu. So anytime you want to get under his skin and he's arguing about something, just say, do you want to bet? It's pretty good. It shows too, as these two guys are trying to build this incredible business, you act like 12-year-olds, which I think is pretty often. I didn't act like that when I was 12, Ryan. The fact that you could be just jokesters and while he's afraid the firm's going out of business,

you're falling out of your chair laughing, I think it's pretty great. It's probably one of the best marketing our firm ever had. But that, again, there are people listening and here that are in partnerships currently. And if I was in a partnership trying to build something like you guys and maybe in the middle of it and there's tough things happening, you would be people I'd probably go to for advice. And so I'm curious, if two co-managing directors of a foreign

firm came to you and said, guys, what's the key? I mean, what do we, what do we have to make sure we get right in order to, for our business to do what yours has done? For our firm to grow like yours has grown, what are some of the things you would share with them? We've been asked that question a lot. I bet. Over the years, have literally seen hundreds, if not thousands of partnerships as we've worked with different companies over the years. And I feel not only fortunate but very blessed to have the partnership that Doug and I've had, what makes that work and what advice would we give with that? You know, first off is having common goals.

And as Doug mentioned earlier, it's not about taking the same path, but having common goals. And, you know, what you'll see is that no two people that go into a partnership are ever going to be 100% aligned economically. They're not going to be aligned with the way they want to live their life. their expectations for success, how they measure success. And this is an area that Doug and I spend a lot of time, and I always wish we had more, but to continue to make sure that those expectations and the way we define ourselves, the way we define success,

that's aligned. And that's very important. And then also respecting the differences that you have as well. But we see a lot of partnerships and a lot of partnerships that fail. And there's a lot of dissension that you see in partnerships. Doug and I've been very fortunate to have worked through that and work through that in a way that's made us more successful based upon how we've handled. What's the biggest reason why they fail? Like when you see failures around, you try to help people, what are the few things that those failures have in common?

I would say just a lack of alignment. And whether that's in expectations, whether that's some of the things I mentioned earlier. You have to have an alignment. Not clarity of like, this is where we're going. This is our North Star. This is where we're heading. We might not have the exact same path, but we know where we're going. We know how to define what success means.

Right. Gotcha. What about you? What do you think about the common values of the successful ones versus the ones that are not? I think successful ones over communicate. I mean, it's the marriage. It's what it is. Yeah.

You look at this and it's like you talk. If I think it, I'm going to say it. I'm not going to stew about something. And the other thing that I think is the ability to look for the constructive feedback because you know your partner wants you to grow. And you know, when Dave comes to me and says, hey, I think something could have been handled better, we could have approached us differently, I'm extremely interested and I'm listening, I'm not building up a defense.

So I think it's just that communication and the openness not to hold back and back to the freedom to fail, you know. I think a lot of them fail. Ego's getting away. Yeah. You know, about whose name do you want to be first on the door or who gets credit for something. If you have an ego, forget about it. Just be a sole practitioner or so proprietor. And just being able to check the ego, not worry about who's right or who's wrong or who's getting credit, and just have that complete trust that your business partner has your back and lead with trust. You mentioned at the beginning that you like the fact that you, you like the fact that you, you you guys are so different.

Yeah. And that was, that you have complimentary strengths, that you have different, you know, different aspects of you of personality. What have you seen, and if you have to maybe say something nice about him, what would you say are the things that you really admire that are about him that are different from you? Yeah, I think what I admire about him has changed over time. Okay.

When I first started working with him and why I went into business, he had a different risk tolerance than I did. And I admired that because I knew he was going to take me outside of the time. my comfort zone. He was more risky. He was like, let's go, let's go for it. Gamble. Let's jump out of the plane and we'll figure out if the parachute works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was very risk adverse at that point in my life and in my career and I really wanted to be around somebody who was going to stretch me, take me outside my comfort zone because I knew that was the only way that I would grow. When I look at it today, what I admire about him is the fact that he has really figured out how to

maximize strengths, you know, the whole Marcus Buckingham, you know, and just focus. on where his strengths are and the ability to say no. That's hard. When you're the founder and you do everything at a starting point, it can be very difficult to say no to certain things or try to do things. And Dave has done a fantastic job of finding and maximizing his strengths. And there's nobody better at what he does that I've ever met in those lanes that he's focused on.

And it's just neat. And I have a lot of admiration for him to be able to let go of the other things. things, empower others, and limit his time to be able to say, hey, this is what I'm good at. I'm not going to try to improve on my weaknesses. I'm going to work around those weaknesses, let other people. And I'm just going to go with my strengths and go hard. How about you? Maybe the evolution, too, because there's probably different reasons why you started with him than why you're still with him. Right. And I think when I look at that, I had a lot of years before we partnered together to get the no done. And any of you,

you that have had the chance to work with Doug know that he's an amazing son, amazing husband, amazing father to his kids. He's a moral and ethical giant that I've turned to a lot. That all still exists today, but as we've evolved, I've watched Doug in his leadership abilities and the development of our culture and strategic direction. I credit Doug a lot for what he's done there. And, you know, we don't get as much time together as we'd like, but I'm just so thrilled to see the growth that has occurred over the time we've been in partnership together, and I still see today. It's awesome. You guys are just, job creators that one is really cool and two, it's a giant responsibility.

You've made a massive impact in the communities in which we serve, which is one of our core values. How do you feel about what's your mindset towards like we create jobs and not only jobs, but great jobs that do fantastic work in the community to help other people to treat their business like our own and how do you, like that responsibility, I just would love to hear some of those really those conversations you and Kirsten are having about to say wow this is really cool but also a giant responsibility it is but it's fun yeah because you're making an impact so i mean we talked earlier just about you know how seriously we take that how slow we are to hire to make sure it's a right culture fit but i think when you look at job creators it's about giving somebody an

opportunity to follow their passion and have an impact i mean i've said that before i'll say that again And that's what we look for. When I sit and talk to individuals about joining our team, I'm not sitting here talking to them technically. The toughest interview question you're going to get from me is what do you like to do in your spare time? I don't care what it is. Show me some passion. Show me some energy. Show me some interest.

What you like to do in your spare time doesn't have to align to my spare time. Heck, Dave and I, our spare times are nothing alike. Thank God. But it's one of those where you're just looking for. you want somebody that shows that they have a passion and that they care. And, you know, we've always talked about we want to help and have an impact to our companies and help transform them in an industry that's very transactional in nature. And we want to be surrounded by people that really care about that.

Can you actually elaborate on that? I think that you intuitively believe this and think this and do this. But this was something I learned. Okay. You said that the industry is typically transactional. and that's not our style. Our style is to build true, real, helping relationships where we treat your business like we treat our own,

like we treat ourselves. What is that mentality? How did you develop that along the way to say, no, no, we're not just going to do your taxes or do the transaction, or we are actually going to build real relationships with all of our clients? I think it started with the career we had before was very transactional in nature, very charged hours.

You think that's the industry? It's a lot of the industry, yes, is very much in that type of mindset. And there's a big burnout in our industry too. And when we looked at doing this, you know, we want to understand what's going on with our businesses. We want to understand how we can help. There's nothing more satisfying to me is when a client calls me and tells me a success story. Something huge just happened. They just won a new contract or they just hired a key employee.

That is, that's the best because we're just a simple thank you for your, helping us with a banking relationship or something like that. Those things motivate you. They motivate most of our people on our team. When you can see that impact, you can see how it's affecting others versus just here's your tax return. So when we started and we focused, we focused and we talked about value, a value scorecard giving our clients to say if a client gives us and trusts us with their work, that is a huge responsibility for us to come back and make sure we're understanding their business, the value that we can drive for them. And that's what makes it fun. If I was just, if we were a firm just cranking out an audit report and doing a tax return,

like the typical industry, you know, stab me with a butter knife. You know, I mean, it just wouldn't be exciting or impactful. And I think that's why our team enjoys to be part of our team. Even through tax and audit work, we have meaningful conversations to help the businesses grow. and that's rewarding and encouraging for our team to want to be part of. And have clients that want to work for life. We like to win. Winning is something we really like to do. But it's about winning the right way and winning under the culture.

And it's really cool to see our clients win. That's a lot of fun to see that and be part of that and be part of their team. So I love when people introduce this as this is, Brixie and Meyer, they're our advisors or it's part of our strategy team. I don't get introduced a lot as peers are accountant. And I think we differentiate ourselves in that way. And that's what makes it fun. That's pretty cool.

The initial question, Dave, was about playing the role of being a job creator and the incredible responsibility as well as how cool it is. What's your mindset towards that and what you've been able to help create and make happen over the past 17 years to make such a big impact in the communities in which we serve? Well, I think that started with Brickstein Meyer and just the growth that we had. And I remember we had won a Fast 25 award about five years then, and we had to pool financial statements and so forth

to look at that. And we had a 70% compounded growth rate. So a lot of blood, sweat and tears during those early years. But it was something that, as Doug said, we took a lot of pride in, took a lot of responsibility around that. I probably take a lot less risk today because of that than I used to, just with different things that we do. And then now, as we've formed Brickson,

and Meyer Capital and as we're starting to deploy our funds that the number of people that are employed even across the companies that that we now are managing there is becoming very significant and just a lot of responsibility but you know what we're focused on is just making sure that we're taking a lot of the core values that we utilized with Bricksey and Meyer and we've been instilling that into the Bricksey and Meyer Capital portfolio yeah so when we talk about giving back in the communities we serve or you know helping our treating our team the way we'd want to be treated we're doing that even in a manufacturing

environment as we've acquired businesses yeah it's just a different way of thinking for many of those companies I want to pause for a second I know there there may be some questions that you may have so let's you can fire away I'll repeat them I know Greg is Greg still here because he's he's my guy there you are go ahead of course you know I'm want to. I would be curious to hear doubts about. So the question is curious about the early years, fears about we're not going to make it,

or are we going to shut down because we don't have the revenue to continue to go? Yeah, I think that's part of the mindset when you start. I was all in. There was no looking back. There was not an option to fail. Is that the mindset you think? Can it start as a, well, let's give it a go, Dave. And if it doesn't, we're going to go back here.

No, because you've already failed. You've already created a path to failure by thinking that way. Yep. So when we started, I mean, there's not one day that I ever thought about doing something different. There was not one day that I ever had, you know, the concern of, oh, my gosh, isn't going to work. There were plenty of days, Greg, where I was thinking it might be baloney for dinner tonight because of, you know, some of the bumps along the way that were there. But it was just that mentality.

And I think when you start with that mentality and you're all in, it's still scary as hell. And it's still rough. But there was no way I was ever leaving. I know we both in the first three years had multiple offers from other people that I think thought that way. I thought, well, you guys aren't going to get along. You guys are so different. You know, Doug, you're at home playing poker on a Friday night. Dave's at a club on a Friday night.

And fast forward, 17 years, and that's still the case. but I think it's just that mindset of there's no way we will fail. Did you share that or did you have doubts? Absolutely shared that. Really? When we started, it was we locked arms and we moved forward very decisively. But there were times where we didn't know how we were going to make the next month. And there were times where we really had to pull the purse strings in.

you were making an investment for the future which cost you today and when you're growing the way we were there was a lot of that there was a lot of of of those struggles and those are things that you know the two of us together figured out and made our way through it and we were always better for it because of the the struggles of grind you guys pushed through that together and that built the camaraderie the trust that my brother's here with me to help me as I as I do this. Any other questions or thoughts? You go. Oh, go ahead. Doug, you know, talk about this book.

No, not even close. He wants to be an accountant. He talks about that. I'm not smart enough to be an accountant. That's a fact. What did you see in him that could be? Sure. So the question is why Doug decided to bring me on to the team and I'd love to hear maybe the conversation you guys had because sure it's not a normal hire yeah so how it started is as Ryan thanked Miranda at the beginning Miranda's our leads business development for our firm and is Ryan's wife and Miranda said hey do you mind talking to Ryan he's you know potentially looking to make a change so I was like sure you know happy to talk with him I'm meeting you know

just a few times more in passing I think we had a dinner when Miranda just started I didn't realize I was being tested at that. I found out later he wanted to go to dinner to learn a little bit about me. Miranda was going to make a big job change. And I think any time you were going to make a change, like that's significant, she had a really good job. She was leaving that I said, let's make sure that we like Doug and Kirsten and that he's a person that is a whole person as a leader, not just at work

because she had all these good things to say, let's make sure. And we had a phenomenal dinner. She agreed to terms like the next day, I think. So anyway, go ahead. I passed the test, I guess, at that dinner. But so I went to lunch with him and he started talking about what he wanted to do and the impact. And right away, my goal at the meeting was to make some introductions to him for clients. That was my mindset.

And as soon as I met with him, I was like, gosh, he not only could add value to our clients, he can add value to our team, and he can add value to me. I'm going to be selfish here for men. I can learn a lot from this guy. He can help me as I'm transitioning and trying to be a better leader. But I felt I had a responsibility because my goal. goal was to introduce him to some people. So I did that. I was extremely thrilled when he called back and said, hey, those introductions didn't quite pan out as good fits. So I went to Dave and I said,

hey, I'm going to talk to Ryan. I would love to see if he'd be part of our team. I had one concern with hiring Ryan. This isn't a space we played in or anything, but my biggest concern was you're going to come to an environment where you're working with your wife. That would not be healthy for my wife and I at all. So I was concerned from that aspect. But back to a comment earlier when we talked about hiring is opportunistic. I saw this as an absolutely no-brainer.

I didn't know exactly what it would look like. I didn't know if it would be profitable. But I knew he's a winner, and I knew he was competitive, and I knew he shared my core values. And it was just one of those that's like, hey, we don't know what this is going to look like. It's going to be an investment,

but we'd be crazy not to have this as part of the team. And when I told Dave the story, he didn't let me finish. He was like, go. Just go. No, that's like what I thought you were going to say. No, he said, go away. Whatever, just go do your thing. So it's been great because, you know, you know Ryan, Ryan's crushing it

and doing a fantastic job of adding, he's in a role now where he can have more of a direct impact in this community in doing his thing on a full-time basis. and so yeah I mean just to answer I mean I think it was you're not you don't often come in come in contact with a business owner with such a vision and ideas and in a willingness to put his money where his mouth was I mean I was VPO North American sales at a Fortune 500 company with it I mean it just face it a really big income and and Doug and I were able to work out a deal that made really good sense for me to do this stuff I love every single day.

And I realize how lucky and rare that is. That's why I try really hard. I want him to feel like he got the better end of the deal because I know I got the better end of the deal. And so my goal is that everyone feels like, well, this was a good choice every single day. So the story, you know, we talked, and then Ryan today, I'll get back in touch with you.

And I was in Pennsylvania for my daughter's volleyball. And I'm driving to her volleyball match. And Ryan calls me, he's like, hey, first off, I just want to thank you for all. all the time. And I'm like, are you flipping kidding me? I've been broken up with before. You're about to dump me.

You know, we're done here. I like to leave gratitude no matter what. He was teeing all this up and I'm like, yada, yada, yada. Let's go. And then he says, I'm in. Let's do this. And I was like, what? And I mean, I think I let off a little bark in the car, you know,

because I was pretty excited and I appreciated the trust he was putting in us to do this. Yeah, it was a good moment. Good moment. Other questions we have? Just have one more that I want to get from you guys. If anyone, go ahead. You've got a lot of price. Oh, I'm sorry.

Jeff Bruner's question was, what's it look? Jeff, can you clarify what's what look like five years from now? The firm as a whole? Yeah. So this is actually the final question I was going to have too. So very good question, Jeff. Not surprising. But what do you see both BMC and for Bricksey and Bricksey,

moving forward, how do you envision? because I know there are offers to buy the firm all the time, which would make sense. Why wouldn't you want to purchase a firm like Bricksey and Meyer with all the people and everything that we've done? So what does it look like in the future moving forward? So on the Bricksey and Meyer side, I'll address first. We mentioned a lot of firms wanting to buy us. We get that all the time, a cause.

And Dave and I could exit this business and be very comfortable. But for me, it's been awesome to have this experience. And I want other team members to appreciate that. So we have a succession plan where our employees, you know, have opportunities for ownership in our organization. And that's how we want to continue to grow and not have an exit from that standpoint because it's not about the money. It's about the impact and having fun.

Where do we see ourselves in five years is most importantly we will not sacrifice our culture. We will not sacrifice the value that we can. put on people, the feeling of family, and just making sure we're having a heck of a lot of fun. But with that, we feel like we have a path to easily double, triple size the company and maintain those. Now, there's a dichotomy there, right, of growth and culture. And that's something that we're very focused on. We won't grow if it's going to hurt our culture. So, you know, to answer that question in five years, we might be the same exact size and if our culture is great and we're having a meaningful impact in the community and our people are highly engaged and feel like they're making

an impact, fantastic. If we're three times larger and we're giving people more opportunities for growth, more opportunities for responsibility, and we're maintaining our culture, that's where we'd like to be. We feel we've done a fantastic job balancing that dichotomy of growth and culture over the years from, you know, when Dave and I first started playing the ping pong and having that fun and energy and we want to just continue to maintain that. But we're not real great at being just level and stable. And I'm going to make one other comment and I'll turn it over. There was a comment David I made at one point that if you're content, you failed. You know, when we were looking at that, we're like, God, if we're ever content, we just failed. And boy, that was the

stupidest thing to ever say. How, you know, like, why would you want to live a life where you're never content? So now we have a, I feel like we have a, I feel like we have a, I feel like we have, have a much better balance and vision is I want to be content today. I want to be at peace today. I want to be enjoying it and have the balance. But just because I'm content doesn't mean that I don't want to grow and continue to win in the marketplace. I would echo everything that Doug said. And I think that one lesson that I've learned over the years is it's not about the destination. It's about the journey. And it's been a great journey. It's been a wild ride. But, you know, what are we going to look like in five years?

You're looking at, you know, some guys up here that are focused on growth. And day in and day out, that's what we're doing. Brick Seymier Capital, it's all about growth. It's growth personally. It's growth monetarily. It's growth for our investors. It's growth in the number of businesses and funds that we're operating. And that's really how we, I see ourselves, are defining ourselves at this point.

I think overall, if in five years, Jeff, one of us will have less hair and one will probably weigh 30 pounds more so I'll let you guess which is weight. On that new, let's end the show. Give it up one more time for Dave, Ricksey and Doug Meyer. Appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you. Wow, what a night. What a moment. I am so grateful to Doug and Dave for agreeing to do this, to record in front of 150 of our closest friends, family members, clients, people that have meant so much to them and to us as a firm. It was very special. And I'm so glad we're able to release this on my podcast as well as the video. I found the night to be entertaining, insightful, emotional.

Certainly there's a couple moments where Dave really let the emotions flow. And I appreciate his willingness to be so vulnerable. And for Doug to share his truth, his story, his belief, system, I thought it was fantastic. A few of the parts that really stuck out to me, their importance of alignment and vividly clear communication with each other and how that all flows to the firm. Then taking measured risk and making tough decisions, including giving each other the freedom to fail, then how they've had to learn to become excellent leaders as the firm has grown from just them to now more than 70 people. I've got to experience this firsthand and it's fantastic. then the most important clients we serve, as they've said, are the team members of Bricksey and Meyer.

I am a fortunate benefactor of that to have the trust and empowerment to do what I do on a daily basis because they trust me and believe in me as well as all of the team members at Bricksey Meyer. It is a really cool thing to experience on a daily basis. I hope you found this one useful. If so, I would love it. If you would spread the message, tell a friend, word of mouth, is as good as it gets. A real true referral makes this thing grow and continues to give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis.

And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so much. I'll talk with you next week. Can't wait.