The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 351: John Maxwell - The Laws Of Leadership (Follow Them & People Will Follow You)

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk Text LEARNERS to 44222 Full show notes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com  Episode #351: John Maxwell - The Laws Of Leadership (Follow Them & People Will Follow You) John C. Maxwell is an internationally recognized leadership expert, speaker, coach, and author who has sold over 20 million books. A New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Business Week best-selling author, Maxwell has written three books which have each sold more than one million copies: The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, Developing the Leader Within You, and The 21 Indispensable Qualities of a Leader. Notes: "Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better." - Pat Riley The difference between 'best' and 'better' "Whatever is best for now... Tomorrow has got to get better. I always look at 'best' for a moment." "If you're not growing today, I have to talk about yesterday. I don't want to talk about yesterday." The great leaders: Listen Learn Lead The importance of listening and asking questions: "I began to ask questions, invite people to sit down and talk."  Shared learning and growing together... What John learned from Angela Ahrendts: "I aim to always give 60 and take 40.  Always give more than you take." "Add more value to people than you take." Working with your team: "I put an idea in front of my team and say, 'make it better,' and they always do." Proactive: "If you're not proactive, you're reactive.  I've never met a great leader who wasn't proactive." "Be unforgettable.  Always be the first person to help." Action Attraction "The moment I move, I attract all resources because I'm moving." "I never draw people to me when I sit still." "Action shows intention" Keynote speaking preparation: "When I'm in the green room preparing, I'm thinking about the people in the audience. I begin to envision the people leaning in, taking notes, engaged.  It helps me." The content you have will alone will not cut it -- "Connecting the content to the people carries the day. I want them to say, 'oh my gosh, he's talking to me.'" "The response of the people charges me up." Layered learning: Is your fence facing out or facing in?  Are you growing?  Or shrinking? Building a company?  "I wasn't trying to build a company.  It started in a garage.  Each company was created just to help solve problems for people. --> Find a need, start a company, find a need, start a company." There are now over 30,000 John Maxwell coaches "I've always had the ability to take a problem and develop a resource for it." "I can smell an opportunity... And I can see it in people.  I've always been quick to spot this." How to develop this skill? --> "You must seize the opportunities. Act quickly." Adaptability - "A person that lacks flexibility will mist a lot of opportunities." Peter Drucker did not make long range plans.  He focused on seizing the moment. John's long range plan: "What I want for people is for them to do well and I want to help them do that." Life advice: Value people Continually grow Live very intentionally

Action shows intention and proactive action shows intentionality. And boy, you put those together and you begin to be a powerful source. Some people, most people accept their life. Few people lead their life. But those that lead their life, they're proactive every time. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show presented by Brixie and Meyer. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here.

Text, learners to 44222. In order to join tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world, receive mindful Monday updates when I'm reading, writing, watching about. Also give you details about my book, Welcome to Management. Text, learners to 44222. Now, on to the night's featured leader, the legendary John Maxwell, named the most influential leadership expert in the world. by Inc. Magazine and Business Insider.

He has dedicated his life to developing leaders. Over the last several decades, he's gone from coaching a few leaders in one organization to developing millions of business, government, and nonprofit leaders from every country in the world. Also, a bestselling author sold more than 20 million bucks, including the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership. A few of the topics we discussed. the three crucial keys that have led to John's success and how you can develop these skills. And then action, attraction, and why we always need to be moving.

And then he gave me one of the best definitions of excellence I've ever heard and you're about to hear it right now. Ladies and gentlemen, it's John Maxwell. All right, welcome John Maxwell to the Learning Leaders Show. great to be with you Ryan. I'm very excited about our time together and being with you and your listeners. Thank you. As you know, I've been looking up to this, looking forward to this one for a long time because I look up to you. And for all of us in this space, you're someone that we can all point towards.

But to get us started, John, I really love focusing on excellence. And I know you're fond of this quote from Pat Riley. You've quoted it, and I have as well. And that is excellence is the gradual. result of always striving to do better. Can you talk to me more about what excellence means for John Maxwell as well as your companies? I'd be glad to, Ryan. Mark Cole, who I've had the privilege of mentoring for 20 years, he and I were traveling and we're having a discussion. And he said to me one day, he said, John, I watch you celebrate something, an event. And he said, but right after you've

celebrated it all of a sudden, you're back intense on improving and growing and developing. And he said, talk to me about that. How can you be so excited for a moment and then so driven to, you know, exceed and go further and do more? And it's really the difference between best and better on this podcast with you today, Ryan, I'm giving you my very best. I mean, you've got a lot of work involved in this. You've got a lot of investments. You've been doing this podcast. You've been very successful. I'm proud of you. And so I'm your guest today. And I offer you the very best I can. I'm prepared. I want to be at the top of my game. But whatever is the best for now, tomorrow has got to get better. The challenges that every person has in their future

will not be met by what we know today. We have to keep learning. We have to keep growing. We have to keep improving. And so I always look at best as for the moment. It's my responsibility to give 100% right now. But tomorrow, what is best and kind of like the ceiling on expectations and excellence now, tomorrow becomes the floor.

And I build off of that. grow off of that. And I say to myself very simply, okay, how do I improve it? Because everything can't, you see, every person can improve, everything can be improved, and every day has an improvement possibilities. And the moment that we understand this, then we are going to continually be in this never satisfied for a long period of time. I think it's good to be satisfied for the moment, the best moment. Okay. I'm okay. I just finished, I'm satisfied. But then I go back to, but I'm not continually satisfied.

It's Babe Ruth who said, you know, yesterday's home run won't win today's game. And so I think that we have to continually put ourselves out to the fact that we can get better. And there's nothing that I've ever thought that the thought couldn't improve. There's never an idea that I've ever had that the idea couldn't increase. there's nothing that I've done that doesn't have an upside potential to it. And as long as I realize this, my growth toward excellence and exceeding expectations will really continue to go. The moment that I don't believe that, then all of a sudden that caps and, you know, pretty soon,

remember this. If you're not growing today, you have to talk about tomorrow, or yes, Now, that's huge. If I'm not growing about growing today, I got to talk about yesterday. Wow. And if I am growing today, guess what? I don't want to talk about yesterday because there's more out there. There's more before me.

And so that's excellence and exceeding expectations from John Maxwell's perspective. I got more than I bargained for. I love it, man. This is great. This is great stuff. I am curious about, I got so many notes here, John, as you can imagine. But I want to start a little bit more personal. I know you've mentioned that one of your biggest mentors and people you've looked up to as your dad.

I'm curious on a more personal note, what are some things that you learn from your dad that you pass on to your kids as a dad? Well, my father has been my lifetime mentor. Like I tell people, I've known him all my life. And he's 98 now and still alive. And as I look back, honestly, Ryan, you know, we could do it to our show on lessons I've learned from my father. But let me just pull out a couple of the huge biggies. The first and most important lesson I've lived or I've learned from my father is by watching him,

I know what a leader looks like, okay? He visualized leadership for me. I watched him. In fact, I didn't even, as a young person, had no idea that I was in a leadership culture, but I was. And so when it comes to prioritizing, I watched my father prioritize like a leader. When it came to decision making, I watched him make decisions like a leader. He just was an example. He fleshed out leadership to me.

And I think that's one of the reasons it's always been easy for me. I saw it before I understood it. So therefore, it was as if I always knew it. Well, I didn't always know it. But if that's the environment that you're in, then that's what you're going to know. And then before, you're almost going to assume that everybody else knows that too. And so my awakening was, you know, as I would as I would break away from home going to college and things like that, all of a sudden I'd look around and I think, you know, my peers don't know this. They don't see this.

And so my father's leadership example would be the thing that I will, I will always be marked by because, again, I just was honored and privileged and lucky I won the parent lottery. I was just fortunate to see it. And so therefore, it's never been hard for me to comprehend. Great stuff. All right, John, I want to talk about listening. Listening is, there's a couple quotes. One of them is that you, I learned through you from Larry King. That is, I remind myself every morning, nothing I say this day will teach me anything.

So if I'm going to learn, I must do it by. listening. And there's another quote I want to read that is actually pretty emotionally tough right now because one of my athletic heroes has just died, Kobe Bryant. And this is a quote from Kobe. To be an effective leader, you have to be a really good listener. You have to be really observant. It means putting others first, not worrying about am I in rhythm, but what can I do to help my teammates be ready. How can I help them accomplish their goals? And so, you know, one of the greatest basketball players ever says that. Larry King, one of the best interviewers of all time, talks about listening. And at one point in your career, you were pulled aside by one of your team members, and they

confronted you and said, you were a poor listener. And so I think a lot of most people struggle with this, even, and a lot of them don't realize it. And so I want you to speak to that particular person maybe who they don't fully realize it because that was you earlier in your career and you admitted that what what about listening and leadership um how does that impact leaders and how can you become better at this well i think that the great leaders listen learn and then they lead riah and uh this was a weakness of mine in the beginning i was a directional leader i kind of knew what i wanted to accomplish. I was always clear on vision. And so I just grabbed people to put them on the leadership train, assuming that where I was going, they wanted to go, what I was doing, they

wanted to do. And assumptions, leading by assumptions is a very negative thing. And so in my life, in the beginning, I wasn't really interested in listening to people. And that's sad. I mean, I I wish I would have not been that way, but it was kind of like I know where I'm going. And since you don't know where you're going, you can go with me. And I'm putting them on the leadership train. Well, when I was confronted by one of my staff, she just looked at me and said, you don't listen to us. And I had to really deal with that.

You know, when somebody gives you maybe critical advice, the thing that makes it so stinging so many times is it's true. So I began, and it took me a long time, so I didn't do this quickly or easily. I began to change. And I began to ask questions and invite people to sit down and discuss things with me and began to do what I would call shared learning and shared growing. And what I discovered very quickly was that immediately that when I started considering other people, immediately I saw my leadership began to take a much deeper, more effective dimension than ever before.

And it's kind of like after doing this for a year, I kind of asked myself, what took me so long? And that's why, you know, even in the book, The Leader's greatest return, I really, I have a whole section on that

because I really want to help leaders understand that if you find the people first, you can lead them a lot more effectively. than if you just expect them to find you. What does that mean? Well, what that means is, if I expect you to find me, it's all my way. You find me on my terms. You find me on my vision.

But if I find you, I find you to where you are. It's kind of like if I can discover you as a person and value you right. where you are, then I could take the vision and the dream and I can apply it to who you are and what benefits you. And then we can really be successful. It goes back to, you know, Zig Zig, or if you can help people get what they want. They'll help you get what you want. Well, in the beginning, it was kind of like you helped me first and maybe I'll have time to help you. It's just totally flipped now. It's kind of like, let me help you. You may never be able to help me, But that's okay, let me just help you.

What do you need? How can I? What could I do? I was having an interview recently with Angela Arns, who was number three at Apple and was for several your CEO of Burberry. And we were talking about what's the best advice you ever received? And she said, well, my father gave me the best advice ever achieved. And she said, he told me, he said, Angela, give 60 and take 40.

And she said, all my life, I've always made sure that I added. more value to people than what I received from them. And then she smiled because she's the highest paid woman executive in the world. And she said, you know, that 40 is a lot. Of course it's a lot. It's a lot. But it works because you're not trying to win. You're trying to let the other person win.

The more I help another person win, the more they fight for me to win. and so it's it's a mindset and listening basically says i you know right if i sit with you and i listen and i ask your opinion and i throw some things out and say hey make me better what i'm doing is i'm really valuing you i think nothing says to a person i value you more than asking their opinion and listening to them i think once that's a statement established, the vision goes from me to we, and that's what we want to do in leadership. We don't want to have a me vision. We want to have a we vision. If we have a we vision, it has to have a lot of collaboration in it. And people make me better. In fact, one more thought.

I share all the time. If you'll put what may be a really a good idea in front of your team and say, here's my idea. Now, make it better. I promise. you, if you really ask them to make it better, they'll make it better. Not 90% of the time, 100% of time. Because they'll bring in a different experience. They'll bring it a different perspective. And when they do this, all of a sudden, your idea begins to crystallize and improve. So, as a weakness in my earlier years, I would hold on to things until I thought I had the best answer that I would reveal it to my team and expect them to applaud and say, you're amazing. And a long time ago, when I was starting to listen to others, they quit saying I was amazing

and they've started saying that they were amazing. And that's what's really, that's really beautiful when people walk out of the room and they just say, wow, I helped him. Well, they do help me. What was it? I think it was Ken Blanchard who one time said none of us is as smart as all of us. And, you know, that's just true. Well, that being true, I better ask a lot of questions. I better listen. Well, said, I want to talk about being proactive, John. Sorry, I have so many notes. I love it, love this stuff. So being proactive. And I'll share an example that you've shared with you, again, to remind you as well as the listeners. So there are, you travel a lot. And oftentimes when you travel, there's a driver waiting for you at the airport. And there are two types of drivers.

is the type of driver who puts your name on the iPad and they wait for you to find them at baggage claim. Two, the second type of person is they meet you at the bottom of the escalator and they speak to you by name. And you share, what's the difference? The difference is that one of the people, the second person was proactive. He Googled you. He looked you up.

He knows what you look like. He's looking for you. He's proactive. And this is advice that my wife Miranda always is giving to people earlier in their career, like find ways to be able to be able to be. be proactive. Share, can you share why being proactive is a critical skill for a leader? It is a critical skill. If you're not proactive, you're reactive. And I've never met a leader who came late to the party figured it out that led well. And so proactive means that I am putting thought,

action on the front end and being the first to help set you apart from other people. if you're the 17th person to help, they may remember your face and said, I think they help me, but the first one that steps out, you remember them forever. And in fact, I have an expression,

I'm just starting to use a little bit, but I really like it. So I'm building it. So it's, you know, Ryan, this is fresh, but it's not brilliant. It's what I'm trying to help people to do now

is I'm saying to them all the time, be unforgettable. You want to be unforgettable. And so, What is it that makes me unforgettable to people? And one of the things that does is that you step up and you're the first to help. You're the first one to, you know, come alongside of somebody. They remember that more than sometimes even how you help them.

And there's what I call action attraction. And action attraction means the moment that I start to move, I begin to attract all the people and all the resources that I'm looking for because I'm moving. They don't come to me when I'm still. So, you know, I run people say, well, I don't have all the answers, so I'm not ready to make that decision yet. Well, you'll never make the decision.

In fact, it's making the decision that you find the answers. And the moment that I start to move in the direction of the vision, what happens is I begin to engage people to where I'm, I'm going and what I'm doing. And they come around and people all the time and say, well, John, you seem to me, you know, you just draw people to you. Well, it's because I'm moving in that direction. And, you know, I've never drawn anybody to me when I sat still.

I draw people to you. And when I, when I interact, you know, we're supposed to leave, we're supposed to ride and leave our footprints in the sands of time, not our butt prints in the sands of time. And, you know, I've run to a whole bunch of people. They're just buttprint people. I mean, honest to God, they just sit. And then they wonder why they never achieve and accomplish.

Well, it's because no one's drawn to somebody who just is going to sit. Action shows intention and proactive action shows intentionality. And boy, you put those together and you begin to be a powerful source. Some people, most people accept their life. few people lead their life but those that lead their life they're proactive every time

so a few different things there was an interesting story that's personal to me about you John I don't think you remember this because you do probably how many speaking gigs do you do a year like a hundred more 100 oh yeah I would do 100 so you did a speaking event with

the same stage back to back with my younger brother My younger brother, AJ, was speaking at an event and you were there and you guys were both backstage. And I said, this was years ago. He played 11 years in the NFL. And so he's asked to give speech speaking gigs every once in a while. I said, what was Maxwell like? What was John like before the speech?

So I'm always fascinated by what people are like before the speech. And he said, you know, it was really, it was really amazing. He was so unbelievably calm and relaxed and kind of, I could tell he's kind of preparing himself in his own. world, but it was just, he was just so chill. And then when he got on stage, he was the opposite. He was just this massive ball of energy. And everybody was absolutely glued to him. They couldn't, they couldn't keep their eyes off of him. He goes, it was just like he flipped a switch. And so I couldn't help. I have to ask you since it's a personal story. What is your, when you're, when you're, when you're getting ready to speak and then when you're on stage speaking,

what, what is your mindset preparing and then as you get on stage? I'm going to answer you at a moment, Ryan. Okay. You're AJ's brother. Yes. Oh, my. This is huge. First of all, yes, this was a few years ago.

Oh, you remember? Oh, I remember him. Oh, cool. Of course, he played football. Yeah. He played, he was a linebacker for Ohio State. He played many, his best years were with Green Bay. And I think when I was with him, he was with the Bengals, kind of wrapping up his career.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, Ryan, so your grandparents are Don Antoine a Hawk. Yeah.

Oh, this is huge. You know, they were missionaries in Degucigapa, Honduras. Right, right, right.

They've written a lot about it. Yeah. Pretty cool. He did farming. Yeah. And taught the people there. So they're actually cousins of my grandpa, but yes,

still very close family. Okay. Yeah. Well, well, tell AJ hi for me, would you? I will. I will.

I didn't mean to surprise you because I know you do a lot of speaking. I didn't know if you would remember it. Oh, I got, no, no. I remember that. In fact, that was about three or four years ago, and that was in Circleville, Ohio. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is so good. Yeah. Is he doing all right? He's doing great. He's doing great. He's listening to you right now, so.

Well, AJ, hi. My gosh. Listen, AJ. You and Ryan and I did together, get together and have a dinner sometime, okay? Tell us when and where, man. We'll be there. Tell you when and where.

Oh, no, no, we had. Let's do it. Wow. Yeah. I would, you know, because you guys grew up around Washington Courthouse, Ohio. My dad's from there, and we're about 40 minutes from there right now. Yeah. We're in Dayton where, you know, home with the Wright brothers.

Oh, yeah, home with the right. I got it. Okay. Well, that's, yeah, okay. I think I got you off track. Sorry. No, no, no. You were talking about the experience.

I'm curious about, like, because he mentioned to be just your ability to be so calm and focused. But then I remember he said, but when he got on stage, he's like, this dude was an animal. He was in a good way. Like it was just incredible energy and passion and people just loved it.

And I thought, I got to ask about that. I want to know about your mindset as you're preparing to speak and when you get on stage. Yeah, well, that's a great question. Because when I'm in the green room, I'm almost always very relaxed. And what I'm really doing is I'm just thinking about the people.

And the very fact that, you know, the people are there to be helped. And so I get very people focused, not so much subject focus, but people folks. I mean, I know what I'm going to talk about. But I don't really spend a lot of time on what I'm going to talk about. I spend a lot more time on how I want to help the people. And so I began to envision the people listening and leaning in. I begin to envision the people taking notes. I begin to envision the people having aha moments and looking at one another and beginning to say,

this is very unusual. And I'm glad I'm here. And he helps me and he loves me and he values me. And I can tell he believes in me. So that's very chill. That's my chill. I mean, I just, yeah, I just kind of calm myself down. and I see the people and experience in my mind

what I think will happen when I go speak to them. So you're not really thinking about, like you know your material cold, right? So you don't really even, I mean, do you have outlines or do you have different speeches based on the day? Do you do the same one every time? Oh, no, no, no. I have on my iPad about 260 speeches.

Wow. So, you know, I've got a lot of confidence. content, but, but I do know what I'm going to speak on. So it's not like I'm going to go out there and just focus on people with nothing to say. Yeah. But here's what I, here's what I know. The content you have carries only the weight to the people if you apply it to where they are. So content doesn't carry the day.

Connecting the content to the people carries the day. So I'm constantly asking myself the question, how do I take what I have and say it in such a way, show it in such a way that the people that are listening to me immediately identify with it and say, oh my gosh, he's talking to me. So the chill factor in the green room becomes the charismatic factor on the state. because when I go on stage now, I'm getting to do what I envisioned. And that is very excited to me because now I'm able to be with the people and they're able to see me and they're able to feel my value to them. They're able to feel my interest in them. And the response of the people, almost always, not always, but almost always right, right? The response of the people is always greater than what I mentally saw in the green room.

And that just begins to charge me up because now I'm sitting over there and I'm saying, how many people in this world, how many people in this world get a chance to say something, life changing to people and realize it's going to make a difference in their life? I mean, I'm 72 years of age, and I spoke three times yesterday. and in my last session I was speaking to the host that was at this conference of mine in about 12,000

people and I'm getting ready to walk out on stage and I looked at him and I said, isn't it wonderful that for the next 45 minutes I get to help people? I mean, think about that. Is there anything else better than life than that?

If there is, somebody's got to tell me because I'd like to go do it. And he looked at me and he smiled and he said, you're never going to get old, are you? I said, well, I, you know, I hope I don't. I don't even really care to hang around. I don't people do much.

So, yeah, I, but, but it's the, it's the opportunity to add value to people and make a difference in their lives that just allows me to go out there and be their friend and connect with it. There are, um, a phrase that you use called layered learning. Yeah. And as you can imagine, whenever I see the word learning, I'm intrigued. And there's a story of the two types of farmers you've written about. And this is from earlier in your career about the banker in Southern Indiana.

And without, if you like, do you want to share that story? You want me to tee it up for you. No, you're talking about fencing. So here's the thing. Sometimes I speak with authors and they've written a million books. I don't want to leave them out to dry. I don't expect you to remember every single story at all moments, you know. But I really like this layered learning story about the two farmers as far as who's getting alone or not.

Yeah, well, I do remember. And I'm glad you set that up into context because there are a lot of times, Ryan, when I've been interviewed, I wouldn't remember the story. I've written too many books. I've written one book and there are stories I already forget, John. So you've written like 100. So I'm, yeah, go ahead. So Ryan, when I was a pastor in a rural community in Southern Indiana, And so we were building, and we were going into building program, we needed a little loan.

So I went down to French Lake, Indiana, and I went to the banker, and I asked for a load. And I, oh, I was nervous. I'd never done anything like this. I was so well over my head. I, and honestly, I think the loan was, I mean, we're talking about 1971. I think the loan was like for $120,000. I mean, but oh, and I thought, you know, I prepared all I could, showed the growth and everything. and he was the nicest guy when he went where I was done he said yeah he said I'll loan you the money

and I thought now that was a little easier than I thought and so I said okay thank you and he said let me tell you and of course this was a farming community where we lived he said farmers come in all the time for loans and and he said I always ask them a question when they want money I ask him are you fencing in or are you fencing out and and fencing in means we're not growing anymore. We're just trying to hold on to the livestock we have. We're just trying to kind of conserve what we have. He said, if they're fencing in, I sell them loaned the money

because he said, I know that their best days are probably behind them. But he said, now, if they're buying more acres, so they've got to fence out so they can buy more cattle and they could, you know, plant more crops, he said, I try to loan them money because he said, there's a future in fencing out. There's no future in fencing in. And boy, that was a great lesson for me that day because I thought, you know, that's true not only in farmers, but every one of us on this podcast, we're either fencing in or we're fencing out. And if we're fencing out, that's where possibilities are.

If we're fencing in, now there are no possibilities. And we're not living for a better day. We're just trying to live for another day. Ooh, there's a difference there between those two. And so it was a great lesson for me. I was a 24 year old kid when I learned that lesson and I thought I always want to be fencing out. I think it's a great metaphor for all of us to think about.

And I think it's inspiring as you've, it's been kind of the through point of this entire conversation of despite amazing amount of success and to an age where some people just want to hang out and relax and you'd be perfectly fine to do that and do no work at all and just enjoy what you've created. but you're not. You're moving. And that's why people, I think, still want to connect with you because you're moving. If you're okay with it, John, I'd like to go actually at the beginning because I was

posed a question by my friend. He's a great guy, college basketball agent named Jason Belser. And we were having a conversation and we develop a friendship because we do an event. I do an event for him at the Final Four now every year. And Jason was saying, what's the future of your business? Are you going to kind of keep it with just you? Because John, just a little background. and I left corporate America to do this full time where I speak and consultant run leadership

circles and podcast and write books. And he said, are you going to stay and do that or do you want to go the Maxwell route, which is scaling the business? And I said, well, it's interesting that you asked me that because I'm going to talk to John Maxwell. And I want to ask him what he was thinking and what he thinks today as far as how you've built this, this massive business, the John Maxwell companies. So I'm curious, what was it like?

at the beginning for you. Did you have this vision of building these massive companies that were all kind of under the John Maxwell umbrella, or has it just kind of gradually happened? And what was your thought process throughout the time at the beginning of it? Brian, I had no intention to building any companies. Really? I was just trying to help people. And I began to develop resources. And it became obvious to me that people wanted to buy the resources and I didn't have the time to help them. And so I needed to get somebody to do that for me. So we started off in a garage and we started, you know, the John Maxwell company. And I really only had companies to meet the needs of the people that we were trying to help when we added value to them.

And so I didn't, you know, I wasn't strategic. Now, I'm not saying this is the way people should do it, but that's the way I did it because I had other things that I was responsible for, and I didn't have time to develop them and build them. And so I began to, you know, I would find a need and then I would, you know, kind of start a company. And before long, you know, we had a half a dozen companies and people's lives were being helped. And what I did love is the fact that the organizations and the companies took what, I was trying to do and they built a foundation for who I was and for what I do. And of course, now Mark Cole runs everything for me and is now owner. I mean, I'm passing the baton off to him, which is very exciting also. But in the process of doing all of this, when I think of legacy,

you know, legacy is in the lives of people that you've influenced and you've mentored and helped. So, you know, we talk about having legs to our legacy. And we started the John Maxwell team nine years ago. Now we have 30,000 coaches in 162 countries. And we keep growing and expanding this incredible group of people. Well, you know, I've got 30,000 people. I've got 60,000 legs out there for that legacy to grow. And so we are very intentional in keeping the values and the teachings and the principles.

we're very intentional keeping that right in front of people and helping them. So all the companies and businesses kind of reinforce that and are foundational to build on that. But I would never want to have people think that, you know, like I was a great business person. I just really tried to add value to people, Ryan. And when I would add value to people, there seemed to be a need that we could fill. And, you know, it's like I told my sales team one time, I said, I've never tried to sell anything. I've just tried to help people. And, you know, when you help people, look what happens.

So what was there a turning point at the beginning? Because at certain point, I mean, I know, given your humble nature, you'd still say you're just a guy. But at a certain point, you're just another guy where John Maxwell is not a name that people follow. What was it that made people want to follow? I know because you were focused on helping others, but there are a lot of people who try to help others, but that don't become John Maxwell.

So what was it at the beginning of this build that people were asking for your help? And we were having then create a business to help them. What was it? Yeah, I think three things. One is the fact that I've always had the ability to take a problem and develop an answer for that problem, usually through a resource. And, of course, you know, for 25 years, right, I was a pastor. and so, you know, I wanted to help ushers usher better, so I developed a program for ushers, and then I wanted to help people be able to reach people more, so I develop an outreach program.

And so I would develop these, you know, products. So I had the ability when there was a problem to put together something I could put in the hands of people, a product that would help them. So there's a creativity there. I was good at that. So that's that's that's that's that's that's that's number one. Second thing I think that I did very, very well is that I backed up what I could produce with a with a,

with a mindset that I wanted more for my people that I wanted from my people. And I think that was now that I don't think that's a again. I think most businessmen won't even understand that. But it goes back to the. you know, Angela, who basically give 60 and take 40. And I pretty much said, I think that's the way I want to do it. I didn't know, of course, I didn't have that advice from her at that time. But I just really wanted more for people.

What really excited me wasn't a profit or what really excited me is the testimonials of people who said, boy, I did this, John. And wow, it made a difference in my life. And so I think that was the second ingredient in building a business that really that really help, you know, us to get established. And the third thing is, is, and again, I just say it because I think it's true. But I just, I can smell opportunity. I just can see opportunity. I see opportunity in people.

I see opportunity. Well, in fact, you know, your strengths. see your weakness. Probably my strength is I see opportunity. My weakness is I almost see opportunity every day. I mean, honest to God, I, I, you know, so I see opportunity in people and how they can really grow and develop. And that that doesn't mean that they all pan out, that all my ideas don't pan out. But I just, and I've always been very quick to just go with that opportunity. I, probably if I was a wise person, I would have given it more thought. But I just kind of said, let's go for it.

And, you know, a lot of them didn't work. You know, a lot of them just got, but that didn't bother me either. I mean, you know, somebody said, well, don't you realize you just failed there? And I would have said, well, you know, it didn't work out. But I didn't take it too personal. You know, we've got other things we want to do. I think those three things allow this to be where we are today. But I want to just say one more thought.

do believe where I am in the stage of my life where I am. Of course, I've got Mark Cole basically now it's becoming all his and he's running, he's doing a great job, although I'm in the game and plan on staying in the game for a long, long, long time. I have no desire to pull back way. But here's what I do think. I think people that have the gifts that I have, they make a mistake many times of trying to hold on to it. And I think that, I think Mark will take. my organizations further than I took them. And I think that's kind of a very comforting feeling to me to realize that I think just because you're a catalyst and you can create stuff and make things happen, that doesn't mean that you

should always be running it. I mean, when it comes to the day to the day, to be honest, we don't want to do any of that. And so to be able to have good people around you that you could hand the baton off to and then let them take it and maximize it. I think that's a good thing. So I'm looking forward to the next 10 years. I think I'm going to see some great things happen because I'm handing the baton off to other people

that they'll do better than what I did, which is very excited to me. The ability to see or smell opportunity, both out there in the world as well as people, identify that. Is that something that has been always a part of you or have you developed that skill? I think that it's a natural skill for me. Can people develop that?

Is there a way, as their advice? Here's what I would tell. From the very beginning, being a pastor, I would look around with other pastors and I would say, oh, my gosh, they don't see this, do they? Oh, wow. I don't even think they're thinking about this. And so I had a very natural bent. for creativity and opportunity.

Now, here's what I believe, because I constantly seized those moments and went into those moments, that's where I think you develop more creativity and you become much more skilled in the area. And I did. So I think there's definitely growth, but I think there's, I think there's,

I think there's, here's, here's why I would say it. There's the gift that gives you an advantage and there's the growth. that keeps you in the game. And it's not either or. It's both that. It's the gift, which sometimes gives me a step up on someone else. But then there's the growth, whereas where people have kind of dropped by the wayside,

you know, 50 years later, Ryan, I'm still doing leadership that it's working. And I think one of the main reasons for that, among others, is, and this is a big topic you've written about, that's impacted me is the, the, ability to adapt being adaptable the ability to change or to be changed to fit new circumstances is a crucial skill for leaders that you've written before how so why is being adaptable so important for leaders well of course I wrote a book leader shift which was all about being adaptable and being adjustable and let me just say this I think a person that lacks flexibility will miss a lot of opportunity because life is fluid.

And, you know, when I look at a person who really wants to button down their future, it's quite amusing to me because I think personally that we don't really know our future. Peter Drecker, interesting, with all he did with management, he wasn't really into a lot of long-range planning because he said, you just can't predict that far out. And I think that what is over-emphasized is trying to predict the future. And what is under-emphasized is trying to seize the moment. And so the reason that I am adaptable and adjustable is because I'm secure.

And I always believe, see, and also I also believe that there's almost always more than one answer. That's why I think I'm not really controlling. And I think there's more than one way to do something very well. And just because I've discovered one way to do it very well, it doesn't mean that there aren't three or four other ways. In fact, what I'm assuming while I'm doing the one thing that I think that really accomplishes the goal, I'm always assuming somebody else knows a better way. I just wish I could find them so that they can help me to do it quicker and better and more effective.

So I think there are issues such as I think people that are territorial, they have a hard time adjusting well. I think people that want to be in control have a hard time adjusting well. I think people that make, that there's a lot of pride in who they are and what their position is. I think they have a hard time being adjustable. And for me, I need to lead today and give the people that I lead today the best opportunity for success today. Not for tomorrow, but for today. Speaking of planning, I've always struggled with this.

And you wrote, I think it was in leadership. As a young leader, you were told you need to make a long range plan of 10 years, medium of five and a short of two years. And now that seems insane. And now two years would be an amazingly long, long. Because I struggled to plan for two months. But how has that evolved? of this idea of planning for the future.

I mean, in my opinion, it's just one giant guess. So what's the point of just guessing? I'd rather just work than guess. But I'm curious of how you think about this. Well, here's what I think about this. If somebody asks me about the future and what I'm going to be doing, I'll be honest with you. I'm a little hesitant.

But if they ask me about the future and what I want for people, I'm very clear. what I want for people in the future is for them to do well and what I want to be in the future is that person that helps them do well so I'm very clear on what I want for people I'm not always clear on what's the best way to give that to them and so therefore I've never lost my way as far as why I'm here on this earth but I've never felt that my way was connected

with a particular way of doing things. And so I've always had that freedom to be who I am and be flexible and make changes. And at the same sense, while I'm doing that, Ryan, never forget that I'm here to add value to people to make life better for them. And I give 60 and take 40. John, one last question. You're sitting across from a young, ambitious, intelligent, thoughtful person. who wants to make a positive contribution on the world. And they're saying, I just graduated college.

What is some general life advice you have for me? Well, for somebody taking off as a young leader and they're ready to embark on their career, I'd say three things. Number one, I would say is value people. Leaders always get messed up when they devalue people. It's just a, it's a landmine. Just value people. Every day, just value people. Second thing I would tell them is continually grow.

Your whole life has to be of self-improvement and development and learning. And you're never out of school. And so every day, just intentionally develop yourself, grow, learn more, get better, expand, expand your mind, expand your soul, you know, just be in an expansive mode of continually, continually growing and, you know, develop. And the third thing that I would just say is live very intentionally. An intentional life is a life well lived. And I think most of us, I think most of us do not do that.

I think that we live a life of good intentions, but not good actions. And if you could do those three things, intentionally live, grow every day, and value people, that's a good start. Great stuff. Thank you so much, John. Where would you send my listeners to learn more about you online? If they want to learn more about me online, just go to John Maxwell.com. And you can just find all the stuff you want to find.

You're going to find out more than you want to find. But hey, it's good stuff. You know, just you that were with us today, Ryan, thanks for having me again. And if your listeners love what they're hearing, you know, tell them to go look up and see if I may want them as a coach. They maybe need to be on my coaches to help me change the world. So anyway, thanks for having me. And, hey, tell AJ that we've got to have a dinner, the three of us. Well, I'm going to follow up with you because I was just going to say I want to continue this dialogue as we've,

both progress because you've you've you've had the guts from a long time ago and still to this day to regularly publish work that has the opportunity and the chance to change people's lives and I'm one of those lives of the millions. And I'm very grateful for that because it does take guts to publish what you think and what you believe. But if you live an intentional life, trying to value people and help them and grow yourself, then you have a chance to make a big impact. And obviously you've done that. So I am going to take you up on that. We'll fly to where we need to fly and have that dinner. you I think it would be a blast and I'll try not to ask too many questions but I can't

promise anything that's just in my nature John so get ready buckle up I'm ready come and catch me all right thanks so much John okay good bye-bye what a thrill to speak with one of the titans of the leadership industry a few of the key points that I immediately am thinking of importance of Growth and movement, action, attraction. Quote, I've never drawn people to me when I sit still. This is a good reminder for us to keep progressing. Create momentum, movement, right?

Have your sights set on something and run towards it. Then the 60-40 rule, add more value to the people around you than what you receive and always have that mindset that's 60, 40 rule. I think that's a useful short quip to remember. And then speaking. All right, I love the part where I got to learn about his mindset towards speaking. Connecting the content to the people carries the day.

You need to make it feel like you're speaking directly to them. And you can only do that if you truly care and you put yourselves in their shoes and think of it from their perspective. And that is just a great way to lead others. others as well. Once again, thank you so much for continuing to give me the opportunity to do what I love. I would greatly appreciate if you would share this with just one friend or maybe two, perhaps one that has never listened to the Learning Leaders Show to say, hey, this episode with the great John Maxwell could make your life better. And from you continuing to do that,

it gives me to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so much. Talk with you next week. Can't wait. Okay. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. I mean, I would love to.

I'm going to text age it right now, and I would love to plan a time to meet up. That would be great. You go to my assistant Linda Eggers, and she'll set up a lunch point for the three of us. You find me and we're going to go have us a nice, long lunch, and then go out in the backyard and play a little flight football. All right.

I'm in. I'm in. All right. Sounds good. I'm good. I take care. Thanks so much, John. Okay.

Bye.