The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 353: Jeni Britton Bauer - How To Create A 'Craveable' Reason To Return

Episode Date: February 24, 2020

The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk Text LEARNERS to 44222 For full show notes go to www.LearningLeader.com Episode #353: Jeni Britton Bauer - How To Create A 'Craveable' Reason To Return Jeni Britton Bauer is an American ice cream maker and entrepreneur. Jeni opened her first ice cream shop, Scream, in 1996, then founded Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams in 2002. Her first cookbook, Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams at Home, is a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller and won a coveted James Beard Award in 2012. Jeni is a 2017 Henry Crown Fellow and has been recognized by Fast Company as "one of the most creative companies in the world." Notes: Leaders who sustain excellence = "The main thing is you show up every day.  You show up and lead by example. You have to be IN IT daily." That develops trusts.  Trusts leads to it the rest... Jeni is a subject matter expert on the topics that matter to her: ice cream, leadership, curiosity, creativity... "It's not a genius idea then lots of funding, then success.  It's really more subtle than that. Blazing a slow path through a tangled jungle, learning as you go over many years.  It takes time." "I find my discipline when I find my passion.  And that passion starts with curiosity. And finding the place of what I want to do is needed in the world." How to know what your passion is? "There's a cross road of what you want to explore and what other people want." -- "That's entrepreneurial thinking.  It's about community and creativity." "We don't know what's possible... You've got to be out exploring and be open to new ideas." Create time for yourself and your team to follow your curiosity... Entrepreneurship is about a 2 way communication with customers.  One pint of ice cream tested positive for listeria but there was never an outbreak. -- They recalled 6 months worth of ice cream, destroying 535,000 pounds (or 265 tons) of ice cream, costing the company more than $2.5 million!  It almost put them out of business. "You want to say you've got talent, hustle, and guts. You want to tell that to the world, but you don't really know until you prove it." "If we create a community, everything falls into place.  Put your values front and center and merge with the community.  When the community sees your business as vital, they will help you when times are tough." "There's nothing more important whether in the financial industry or ice cream, than trust." "Create a craveable reason to return" - Why would a customer come back to you? Why would someone follow you? What are you doing as a leader that makes someone want to follow you?

I really think it's about following curiosity because if you follow your curiosity, when we talk about discipline and habits and things like that, I have like a slightly different take on that. I find my discipline when I find my passion, right? And so I'm so focused when I'm into something. And that's about finding that, following curiosity, finding the place where what I want to do matches up with what is needed in the world. And so you've got to create space for yourself to do that. And I think we do that for our teams too, but I think that's really, really important. important. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show presented by Rixie and Meyer. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for

being here. Text learners to 44222 in order to join tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world. Receive Mindful Monday updates what I'm reading, writing, watching, thinking about. Also, give you more details about my book, Welcome to Management. Text learners to 44222. Now on tonight's featured leader, This episode was recorded in front of a live audience at Doc 580 in Columbus, Ohio. It is Jenny Britton Bauer, ice cream maker and entrepreneur. Jenny opened her first ice cream shop screen in 1996, then founded Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams in 2002. Her first cookbook, Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams at Home, is a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller and won a coveted James Beard Award. in 2012. As founder and chief creative officer, Jenny, remains the beating heart of the company

and is in charge of all creative output. There are currently 39 Jenny's splendid ice cream shops in America and her ice cream is sold in grocery stores everywhere. A few of the topics we discussed in front of our friends, clients, and supporters. The power of building a community and why you should think about this from the very beginning as a leader. Then how to handle adversity. They had one small pint of ice cream test positive for Listeria years ago and decided to destroy 265 tons of ice cream costing them more than $2.5 million. It almost put them out of business.

Jenny shares why she did this and how it made her better. than the importance of building a cravable reason to return and how this applies to all businesses, not just ice cream shops. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Jenny Britton Bauer. So welcome to a live edition of the Learning Leader Show presented by Brixie and Meyer. I am so grateful that you've chosen to invest your time with us.

I would say I feel extremely lucky in the fact of who our guest is tonight. Jenny and I actually were talking yesterday on the phone and to hear her excitement and the stories. I had to stop her and say, we should just, we got to get off the phone because you're too good. I don't want to waste it. You're just too good. I want to be more curious because, and so I couldn't be more excited. A lot of you in here obviously know Jenny. It's why you're here.

A New York Times bestselling author, winner of the James Beard Award. Jenny's Splendid Ice Creams has been named one of the most. creative companies in the world, not just in the food business, but in the world as a whole. And her story is absolutely incredible. Been doing it for, I guess, 25 years. So please, let's actually get on our feet and give Jenny a very warm welcome. Welcome, Jenny, Britt and Bauer. Hey, it's so good to hug.

All right. You ready to go? All right. Hi. What do you think of this? This is great. Yeah. I see you all.

Yeah. It's so good to have you here. I know so many people are upholding for your time, so we're really grateful that you're here to share with us. One of the questions, Jenny, I do like to start every impressive leader that I'm fortunate enough to speak with on my podcast, though. And I have to ask you, and I know we didn't script this. We didn't actually script anything. But I am fascinated by excellence and leaders who sustain excellence over an extended period of time. And so you've done a really good job of surrounding yourself with those types of people.

and obviously you're one of them. What have you found when you are self-reflecting or analyzing others to be the commonalities among leaders who have sustained excellence? I think the main thing is that you do it every day, that you show up and you lead by example and you're in it as much as anybody else or more every single day. And I think that does a couple of things.

First of all, of course it establishes your sort of credentials, but it also sort of makes people trust you. It's part of that path of trust when you really know your stuff and you know how to do it. And, you know, I think that it's really, you have to have that foundation. I was amazed at your level,

I mean, I shouldn't be, but the level of knowledge you have for ice cream. You would be shocked at how much knowledge there can be around. I had no idea. Just describe the little temperature thing about ice cream. I was like, what is she talking about?

and the fragrance. Briefly share some of your, what you were sharing with yesterday about the science behind ice cream. Well, I studied art, and so, and I really did my, I mean, my entire life. I was very crafty, I would say, at getting out of math and science. It took a lot to do that, actually, probably more than it would take to actually just get through it in high school and even in college. It just wasn't for me.

I didn't think it was for me. And then I chose ice cream and I thought, this is going to be great. I'm going to tell stories through ice cream all day, and it's going to be wonderful. Well, it's all science. In fact, it's not just all science, because some of science is pretty easy for me. It's chemistry, which I really tried to avoid in my life.

So ice cream is the most studied emulsion on the planet, and what I love about it so much is that one of the main elements of ice cream, of course, butterfat, that's the fat that's in milk and cream, melts below body temperature. Not all fats are like that at all. Every fat is a different melt point. And some of them take, like, for instance, if you eat chocolate that's frozen,

you won't get the scent of it at all, or the taste of it at all, because it never sort of melts on your palate. But so ice cream is not like that. Ice cream is 2 degrees below body temperature, and so you can load it up with scent and have an ice cream is, and freeze it and lock it in there, and as soon as it hits your tongue,

it volatilizes all of that scent out, and it blooms to your head, basically. And that's how you do. So there's so many cool things you can do with that, because scent is magical. It's only five things. you can taste on your tongue, sweet, sour, bitter, salty, and then umami. Everything else is a scent. And so ice cream is all about that, you know, working with scent and how it blooms. So

then you get into, well, how does it melt? Because most ice cream makers try to prevent ice cream from melting. I'm serious. I could go on all night. I love it. Hey, I asked the question. We didn't know we'd be learning. We were talking leadership. No, we're talking ice cream. We'll get to leadership stuff later. Go ahead. Well, most ice cream makers want to prevent ice cream from melting, and there's good reason for that, obviously, because of the long, you know, chains of logistics and, like, freezers opening up and closing, and then when you're, when you put on a cone, we worry, that's like what I worry the most about is how it melts. We want it to melt, and so we want it to melt, but in a very specific way.

And so we don't work with stabilizers or emulsifiers or corn syrup or other ingredients, which is not done in ice cream. It's just not, or even egg yolks. So we found a way, because I worked at the dairy for so long, and figured this out through how we pasteurized and homogenize, we can make milk proteins act like egg yolks and what egg yolks do in ice cream. And then take all the stabilizers and mulstifiers out. And then what half a bit is super clean melt as you're eating it, and I hope you're eating it on a cone. It's okay if you're not, but that's how I eat it. And the little pints I get at Kroger's, no?

No, those are good. Okay, there are good. But the cone is great because when I, when I make the ice cream, I make it to be licked from a cone. And that's the sort of, that's where you really get into taking milk apart and putting it back together. And in our like a molecule. Wow. Part of the reason why I want to ask you that is to, I know so much that you know your stuff, and that's part of earning respect

and leading a team of people because you know it first and foremost. But I do actually, your story is so incredible and it's pretty linear as we were talking about before. You, though, are, I believe, 22 years old. You're in, at Ohio State, in an art class, correct? And you're walking out of the art class. and something happened. Can you kind of, we're not going to tell the whole life story,

but what's going on in your mind at that time? Well, actually, it was sitting in the art class, and you sit on these weird chairs in art class where your paper pad is, and it was a figure drawing class, and it's like a horse, it's the drawing horse. And so a model walked in, I loved figure drawing class, but it's three hours long, so if a model walked in that I couldn't draw, then it's not a fun day.

and if model walked in, it was a fun day. And I always liked the round models, like the older lady that would come in or whatever, because I'd draw big, and that's like the radius, you know, and so this woman walked in, she's beautiful, but she's really tall and slender, and I have to, like, work out angles from her. And I was just, like, I can't sit here for three hours.

I can't sit here for three hours and work out this angle, angles of this naked, beautiful woman in front of me. And so I, like, sat there, like, and I just got up, And I was thinking of ice cream. I'd been making ice cream all morning. I'd been making ice cream obsessively for the last few weeks.

And I just got out, I just decided this was it. So I got up and left, and I rode my bike home, and I made ice cream. But I left everything there. So I left my portfolio. There was portfolio week.

I left all of my art supplies. And if you've ever studied art, you don't have any money, you know, that's a lot of money. It's everything you have in that box. And I knew I wasn't going back. And so I left. And then I started a little shop in the North Market,

and Pia, my instructor, she was awesome, she was German, she had blue hair, and she came over, and she was like, where have you been? I have all your stuff. And I was like, well, I've been here. Make an ice cream. Wow. And so you eventually launched Scream, correct? Yeah, just a little shop in the North Market right next to eventually where I then opened up Jenny's. But yeah, it was a little shop. So Scream ended up failing. And I think all of us, you know, if we've tried to ever do anything in our life of significance, we failed. Like that's part of, that's part of the journey. The only way to not fail is to basically not do anything.

What are some of the biggest learnings you took from that initial failure? Well, I think I was still thinking like an artist. And so I think that at Scream, I really thought it was a great idea that I would make whatever flavors that I wanted to every day, and everybody in the whole community would be super excited about that. And I thought that, like, you flip open your open sign, and there would be lines all the way to Clintonville, and it would be, like, amazing. And obviously that's not true.

That's just not how it works. And it took me a really long time to realize that. Of course, there are a lot of other things. I didn't know how to make ice cream. I thought I did. I thought because I could make it at home on a little machine, that I could make it at a larger scale. And ice cream doesn't work that way at all.

You know, it's pretty easy to make a cake or a brownie by comparison. Ice cream, anytime you add a new ingredient to it, it upsets the entire balance. You have to start with a new recipe. And so I really had a lot to learn about how to use the beautiful bounty of the market and turn in ice cream, which was great because I got four years with almost no customers. and all I had to do is make ice cream all day long and learn how to do it.

And then the customers that did come in, of course, there were customers eventually and people who started to really enjoy that or whatever, but they would come in basically on Saturdays for a few hours. But I got to make ice creams and then hand it over the counter and listen to feedback. And so all in all, between Scream and Jennings, there were 10 years of that, which was really important.

But when I opened Jennings, a closed scream, when I opened Jennings, that was the thing that I solved was not having flavors that people were coming in for, And so I realized, and there's a little story behind that, but I realized that I had been disappointing customers, but I'd come in for salty caramel, and I wouldn't have it. And I would be like, yeah, but we have, you know, whatever else, that you can't disappoint customers that way.

And I realized that, like, wherever I go, whatever business I go to, it's because of what I had last time. It might, my order might change, or I might change my mind when I get there, but I'm here because of what I had last time. And once I learned that lesson, after I closed Scream, of course, I immediately realized that that was what I had done all. the customer. So then I started writing a business plan and Jenny's includes two freezers so that

one of them can be for our signature flavors that we know people love. And from day one, I vowed never to run out of them like salty caramel and some other ones. And then another cabinet for, you know, following the season or pop culture or whims or whatever we want to do. I was fascinated by that kind of the two separate stations and one feels very creative because you can try stuff, right? And I'm curious, like, there are people from various professions, not many, maybe no other ice cream makers in the room. I don't think. It could be wrong. Maybe there's one or two.

But for people who are not, let's just say, for the rest of us, what type of advice would you give to them to say that you could maybe pull from your two separate setups of, yes, I'm never running out. This is why people come. But I also need to be regularly experimenting and trying new things out because that's going to help us grow, be different than the rest of the crowd. What advice do you give to people in that regard? I don't know. I mean, I think it's really, really important because a lot of times customers, our customers, but in many other areas as well, we don't know what's possible. I don't know.

Before I got into ice cream, I didn't know what was possible in ice cream. That's my job to help you understand what's possible in ice cream. And so you've got to be out exploring and keep your curiosity open to those new ideas and also really value what people love about what you're doing. And so creating time for not just yourself to do that, but your team, to be pushing forward and finding new things to focus on. I really think it's about following curiosity because if you follow your curiosity, and when we talk about discipline and habits and things like that, I have like a slightly different take on that. I find my discipline when I find my passion, right? And so I'm so focused when I'm into something.

And that's about finding that, following curiosity, finding the place where what I want to do. do matches up with what is needed in the world. And so you've got to create space for yourself to do that. And I think we do that for our teams too, but I think that's really, really important. I talked to Brian Coblman, a filmmaker, and he said his whole mission is to follow my curiosity and obsessions with great rigor. And I thought that is a great mode of living. Well, it's almost weird because you could say that it's, that's how I do this.

That's how I've done everything in life, right? Yeah. I think that when you follow the things that you're driven to follow, you're led to follow, and then you find that spot, like you get this otherworldly passion that nothing can stop you. It just, that's what it is. And when we're forced, you know, if somebody were to sort of force me to become, you know, something that I wasn't going to, you know, be good at or whatever, there was no discipline training in the world that was going to get me to become a good, I don't know, whatever.

So I think that on one hand, I think, well, geez, I've been like the laziest person in the entire world, because I just went over and did all the stuff that I wanted to every day. But at the same time, the focus that I have is so strong, and it is otherworldly. And no one I've ever met that, you know, it's very few people have that kind of absolute focus. Yeah, how did you find that? Because I think that part can be tricky for people at all ages. That was it when you're 22 and you're in the art class or where, how do you know what that is? Well, I think there's like a crossroads where there's this place where you're, you know, what you're driven to like explore meets up with what other people want.

And I think being open to that sort of place of opportunity is how you do it. In fact, I would like to teach kids this more often because I think that's entrepreneurial thinking. It's not business thinking. I think business thinking is different. Entrepreneurial thinking is like it's about community and creativity and commerce as well and sort of how do those things meet up if you can find some way to, you know, to make your community better through the things that you're doing, whether it's skateboarding or ice cream or something where dentistry or whatever.

But I think that to me it's about once you get that, almost immediately, the way you know that it's that is because almost immediately you can create a vision. You can telescope it into the future. And that for me is that when I can telescope something into the future and see the world post idea, then it's like you've got your marching orders and you kind of know, at least you know what direction

to go. You know, you may not know every day how to get, you know, what exactly to do, but at least you've got a direction. What was the, what was the vision for Jenny's? Again, it feels weird saying Jenny's to Jenny, but what was your vision for Jenny's when you started it? Because you learned from a past, I don't know if I didn't call it a failure. You've learned from your previous experience that then made, obviously made it better. So what was the vision at that time? Well, the vision at Scream was what we're doing today. Really? Yeah. You know, point A to point B, you know, the fastest way is a straight line, it's never a street line. It's like swerving. You know what I mean? I always imagine like a river and you're just like ice skating on the river. I mean, it takes forever to get anywhere and sometimes you're swerving backward. But eventually you kind of ooze forward. But the vision is like, for me, everything. You know, you just led by this vision. And, you know, there are things that can kind of sort of change the vision, but not really. You know, that long-term vision always sort of stays the same. At least it's that shoot for the moon vision. You know, and then you've got some mid visions and, okay, well, if we don't get all the way to the moon, at least we'll get to this place.

Or we'll get, you know, you sort of create those. So what was it then? What was it back then? It's exactly what we're doing now. I mean, it's like stores across, you know, America can, you know, Ben and Tories can have ice cream and grocery stores, so can I. Right? I mean, like, what makes them different from me? So that all this, open them up everywhere.

And. Yeah. There are things that I would never have been able to envision. Like how many people show up at our openings. Like how. You said on Houston, right? Houston recently, but Alexandria on an 18, yeah. 18 degree day recently in December one of the biggest openings we ever had I mean

and I couldn't I don't think I'd ever would have understood the passion that people have for our company and it's like in the millions I mean it's just like incredible I mean it what when I do openings it's very personal to me and it's and it's also very personal people who are there I listen to stories I mean hundreds and hundreds of them and you know people telling me about you know whatever it was their mom you know who was very sick who was eating ice cream on her last you know days or whatever or how they met and now they have a little baby who they bring in and want a picture and like people you know cry those are the things that I never would have imagined and now looking back I can say it makes sense because we care so much and because we're real and because we protected that with everything that we had and we you know we grew in this very measured way and we even though we had this big vision you can get there relatively I say relatively easily nothing is easy you could have got we could have gotten there with in an easier way than we did we didn't have have

to work directly with makers, growers, and producers, which is extremely difficult to do as a company in terms of just the human element, but let alone moving 6,000 pounds, six weeks of strawberries that have a one-day shelf life around. Just moving those strawberries is hard. You know, we didn't have to do it like that, but those, so that's the thing. It's like you create this vision of where you'll be where it will look like, but then every day you make the decisions still. And you're, I know, a much bigger proponent of growing slow than most, and I think it's a differentiating quality between you and your company and others. Where does that come from? Because most people don't have the patience for that. They're like, no, we just want to go like

this. Yeah, well, I didn't either, but it just happened. But anyway, no, but I don't, every business is different and everybody will have to do it in a way that works for your business. But I think that what I'm more interested in is we don't tell the stories very often of that sort of slower growth, right? Where you do it, you have, it's just a very different thing. When you're creating a business in your brain and on a piece of paper or on a PowerPoint, and you're creating it through, you know, getting money and then getting your team and then launching your brand with a lot behind it, that's when you get phrases like, you know, you only get one chance to launch a brand. I can't tell you how many times I've launched and relaunch, you know. You do things very differently

when you start with $1,200, you know, and then every dollar that you ever get, you keep plugging back in. Right? And then, so you learn as you go, which is great, because if I had gotten millions of dollars to start in 2002, I would have thought I knew what I was doing, but I wouldn't have. I mean, I needed to learn more about ice cream in order to really break ice cream and do it our way. You know what I mean? And those are the things that you can only get by boots on the ground experience. So in addition to some of the fast growth stuff that we have going on in these great stories. I mean, I think that kids think right now that being an entrepreneur is, is like saying, I won the lottery. You know what I mean? It's like, because entrepreneur stories that we hear now are like these fast-rise, shooting stars, one in a million. It's like becoming an actor.

You know what I mean? Like, nobody really does that. You know, it's like Tom Cruise and, you know, whatever. And I don't think that that's really the best. I think that we also, there are other stories, many, many, many out there of these sort of slower growth brands that take 10, 20 years to really establish themselves.

And a lot of people doing that. And it's a great way to do it. And it's probably less risky, really. Yeah. If people are in the audience who are listening that are from different fields again, and I'm trying to relate some of the cool things you're talking about to them. So they're running an accounting firm, an insurance firm, financial advisors, right? How do you relate this kind of slow growth mentality to somebody like that,

regardless of how mature their business is? What's some of the advice you give to them to say, like, you don't have to do this? How does that apply in other industries? Well, I just think that it takes a while to build your reputation. You know, we talk about what's in a name all the time, and Jenny is one of our values is put your name on it. We talk about that all the time, what's in a name. A name is more than what's on your driver's license, everything people know about you,

and that's true of our company, and it's true of us as individuals. And I think it takes a while for people to really understand what you're about, and that's just important. And yes, some companies and some businesses can plaster that all over, and we'll all believe it, and it's fine. But even those companies sometimes, I mean, you know, there's different kinds of companies, of course, but even those companies sometimes you can market yourself to a name recognition that doesn't translate at all into sales or any kind of extra, you know. So I think it's for me, my business has been, and I think this would be true of you and anyone in financial services or whatever.

It's one person at a time, you know, whether it's a person on your team or it's a person that you're working with or a client. It's make one person in front of you feel really. good, you know, feel that they are in the right place, have lots of trust and feel like like they're in the right spot. And we do that at Jenny's all the time. I mean, we have, you know, 60,000 people that come through our stores every day in the summer, you know, across our stores. Wow.

Seven million people in 2020, or in 2019, went through our stores. And so, you know, it literally is one person in time, you know, it's like five. Sometimes I get jealous of people who like sell shoes and they're like $100. And I'm like, one person buys one pair of shoes, you know, everybody has to spend money that spend money it's like five dollars you know but anyway it's a people it ends up it's a people business and so it's one person at time and I think it's that you know personal caring caring about that one at a time and then it creates this community which then is the most in my opinion the most powerful form of marketing is a genuine referral have you had jenny's ice cream you should

genuine I'm not selling you anything I just ate some of the peanut butter with the chocolate put specs and it's so good. By the way, the research for this episode, this, this night is by far one of the best research project. I'm not even an ice cream person. I'm really not. You're going to ask my wife, Marana, just about like, you know, dinner's over. I got to get ready for Jenny. I need to genuinely tell her what I think of some of this ice cream. It's really good. But no, you truly, though, I get the sense that the building of a community around you, the product, how you treat people being authentic is a massive part of your success is building community. Was that always part of your thought process is that we're not just going to have a good product. We're building

a community of like an army of people that want to be a part of this. Sort of. I mean, it all comes from the market. So I feel like that sense of community came from, for me, the North Market, which is our indoor public market where I started both of my businesses. And a lot of the foundation of everything that we do comes from there. It comes from us all working together. It comes from us holding each other accountable, having high standards, loving each other, caring for each other, all of that. And even like seasonality and how we work with farmers and why and all of that comes from that one, that place.

And so I think what we just did was scale up the things that we knew. But I love the word company because it means you're not alone. I like it better than like business. I think company is just the whole point of it is that you're not alone, that it's a community. And we talk about fellowship a lot at Jennings and what it means and fellowship to us. is that, you know, we're all here, we're all bringing in this, you know, our awesomeness, but together we make something greater than some of its parts. I mean, I didn't read a lot of business books, but I did read a lot of sci-fi and fantasy

growing up, and as I was getting started, and people asked me a lot what my favorite business book is, and I always say it's the Lord of the Rings movies. But that sense of that idea of fellowship comes directly from there, and it absolutely is true. When you let people bring their awesomeness in and then combine it in such a way, you make something It's just great. And part of that is our customers. I mean, it's our company includes our customers. You mentioned the people bringing their awesomeness to you. I am, you know, selfishly really curious about the hiring process. So as you grow, it becomes bigger than just Jenny. What do you look for when adding someone to your team outside of, you know, they have to do specific task,

but what do you look for in the makeup of a person to bring on board to your company? I think that they, you know, that they're genuinely a nice person, you know, but also, you know, there's something, you know, there's something about that. And you can kind of tell when people are, you know, but I think also somebody who's forward thinking, who's very curious, who's excited about what they do, who sees the future, who can see, you know, what's coming, you know, and because then it's really funny. We can have like great conversations and we can, you know, begin to plan. But I want that. Yeah. Was it like that at the beginning as you're adding to your team? Or have you gotten more, like how is it, how is that evolved over time?

Well, yeah, I mean, I had to learn all about this. And, you know, in the beginning it was whoever would work for us. I mean, it was like all of Columbus Junior Theater, basically. Because they would come over during their breaks and in costume. And then sometimes we'd be busy and I'd put them to work. But I learned that in our shops, and actually at Jenny's too, now we have a sort of corporate office, but when we get really great people, it attracts more great people. And when we've had times where we couldn't find great people or where we got a little bit overextended and so we weren't there as much, you know, like when we opened three stores in Columbus and so we weren't at Grandview every day, you know what I mean? Then it's like people who aren't as good are also attracting people who aren't as good.

You know, because when you've got this, when you have a culture of excellence, people want to be a part of that. The right people want to be a part of that. And so it starts to work on its own after a while. Yeah. What's the process of building a culture of excellence? That's one of my favorite words in the world is excellence and most notably how to sustain it, right? Not just like not that, but this. What's like, what goes into building a culture?

Because we all say that. We all want to do that. I'm thinking practically how do we actually do that though how have you done that I mean I For me it's just showing up every day and know and and get it you know I'm getting better at what I do the same way everybody else is getting better at what they do Yeah, so every day I'm learning more I'm researching I'm getting better at making ice cream that what's possible in ice cream I'm bringing I'm learning more about our customers I'm bringing that every day and so I think in a way showing that I think that's true of everyone our team That idea we're all always getting better And it

trickles out, you know, without question it does. You know, when we've got a really great leadership table, it trickles out everywhere, and you can feel it in the entire company. I know what I, when I think about the leaders that I've really wanted to commit to in my life, it's those who are constantly striving to improve themselves, right? They're regularly, they're always, you're smart and in their own right, but always trying to get better and better,

and it sounds easy to say, much harder to do, and that's what I, I, I, I, I, I write a lot about like building a committed culture versus a compliant culture. The committed ones are when people have that mentality because you could easily say, I'm good. I've kind of got this thing figured out. I don't know if I need to learn anymore, but instead you have, it seems like the opposite approach. Yeah.

And you can also, you know, you can easily, and we've done this as well, you know, people come in and they check all the boxes and they go home. And they get their raise or whatever, you know, whatever it is, they, because they did everything they were supposed to do. And it's like, but once you work with people who push it, who push the back. boundaries who are bringing it in every day that way, you start to know that, okay, this is, that's what's, that's what we want and that's what's possible. And so it's not just coming in and doing the work, but it's imagining, you know, what's possible and bringing that in as well. And creating, very importantly, creating a place where that's possible so that somebody

who thinks differently than somebody across the table can put something down, an idea down, or something that they're imagining. And nobody makes them feel stupid about that. It's actually really hard to do to create a culture where everybody's bringing it in and nobody feels, and everyone feels like they can disagree with what's going on. Do you guys have regular idea creating sessions? Or what's the process to come up with new ideas,

new flavors, you're known for this? Like, are you guys all in a room? I just would love to go inside. What's that process? Well, we have different departments. And so they're sort of working on their own and then we kind of meet as a group of leaders and sort of support each other in various ways throughout the year.

A lot of the creative work is really done by the creative team. It's a small team and so that's flavor creation and how we communicate about flavors, how we photograph flavors, illustrate them, all of the design work and all of that stuff. But I really think that, I mean, I would say that one of the most creative people in our company is our CFO, Ro Timmons, she's amazing. And she can find these stories in numbers that, and it's just, it's just, it's really fun to listen to her speak. And so when the creative team is working with Poe and that team, and they know what's going on and why and what we're doing, and they can see their work

impacting sales at Christmas time or whatever it is, they learn so much faster about how to do things. And so making sure that your teams can communicate is important. So we will find ways to do that definitely in our company. So any business that also or that has been in existence for a while faces moments of adversity and your company is no different. Even though the media I don't think covered this properly from what all the research I've done and some of the people I've talked to, but there was a small batch that tested positive for Listeria, this was years ago, not an outbreak or anything crazy like that, but a tiny small batch. But it still needed to be dealt with.

And I think part of, in some way, you turned something that could have easily put somebody out of business and it became actually a positive. So what was your mindset when, because you had to throw away, how many gallons of, like $2.5 million? $265 tons of ice cream. $2.5 million worth of ice cream, right? Which it was, all of it was fine, but you had to, you did it. I'm not doing that accounting. We're just going to leave it at that. Amazing.

to do that. You also took it head on. So what was your mindset towards dealing with something that, first of all, wasn't necessarily covered accurately in the media, was not a giant outbreak, but people were making a bigger deal than it was, but you just still were authentically yourself and took it head on. Well, yeah, because, you know, it doesn't, ultimately doesn't matter. Right. You know, Listeria is Listeria and you deal with it. And so I think for us, though, it goes back to we knew who we were or we believed who we were. We believed it. We knew afterward we could then say that you know our values are our values but I think

having our these sort of values of community and that we had and having a strong relationship with our communities everywhere we are but also in here in Columbus especially here in Columbus and having a really you know having a group of leaders in our company and actually the whole company just being united by our values was everything because everyone knew what what we had to do There was no real debate, you know? And, you know, to John Lowe is our CEO, and he's also an old friend of mine, and we think very differently, but he had had mock recalls before. And so we all knew what to do.

So you practiced for something to go wrong? Is that normal? I don't think it's super normal, but like, you know, for us it's normal, and we just had one another one the other day. You know, we do it. We do it. And so we all knew exactly what to do. And so it was the hardest time of my life, but it was also, I started writing a journal on day one. It was like, I could get outside of myself and look in, and I was like, this is the most creative I will ever be.

You know, like we're really going to have to work, you know, if we're going to survive this, we're going to have to, I mean, it's going to be interesting. But seeing the team work and how they, how they were able to come together and do it was amazing. But the reason that we survived it was because of the trust that we had already built with the community and the way that we communicated, you know, sort of openly and just knowing what we were going to do. And it was so different from what other companies were doing, even at the time. So it was never a question internally to say, like, we're just going to basically open the books. I mean, you shared everything. Yeah, because we didn't know, we didn't know how big it was.

And we wanted above all to prevent any outbreak. And so we did. We prevented anyone from getting sick or any outbreak at all, which was the most important thing. And that was just the most, you know, that was the most important thing to us, that no one would get hurt. You know, obviously that would have been horrible. So we didn't, we didn't wait for more tests to come in. We didn't, you know, we just, we just brought it back. And you briefly touched on it, but I think we don't, you don't truly know what your values are until you're forced to live up to them. Like you have a moment, right? It's just like I always say like anybody can be a captain when you're winning all the games.

I want to see how my teammates acting when we're losing games. That's when the character is really revealed. And I felt like how did that you actually propel yourself from a moment that literally could have put you out of business? But then it became now, I think, a really positive part of your story. Yeah, I don't, you know, it really is. It's this trust thing that people have. And it's amazing. It really is.

I mean, we always said we were, we have talent, hustle, and guts. You know, that's like the Jenny's, team jenny's. But after we went through that, we were like, well, now it's like fortune fire. Like, now we definitely have that. You know, we definitely felt that. And the internal camaraderie that you get when you deal with crisis is almost, you can't get it any other way. You know, it's like you wouldn't wish crisis on your worst enemy. You wouldn't because it's so hard even when you've been through it.

And yet it can be the best thing that happens to you. And I think that it's so weird how that's true. I mean, it focused us. We shed everything that was not important. And there, unfortunately, it was a lot of stuff we were doing. We'd become a little bit flabby. We sort of thought, you know, whatever. And we got, you know, we got super, super, super focused on what was important.

And we knew what we were there to do, and we just got rid of everything. Is there an advice you could give us somebody to say to do what you did after the fact, but without having the big, the tough moment? I think of like the focus there because we all could potentially go through this process of being You said we're a little flabby like we could we could we cut some of that we get more focus What advice would you give to somebody that doesn't isn't dealing with anything like that but want to be more proactive? You know it is hard, but You can probably get rid of most of the stuff you're doing you know what I mean and when you really sit down and think

What is the one thing that I am here to do a couple of things right and for us we through that we realized a few things you know that we were here to work directly with makers growers and producers that that if that didn't happen then we're not jennies anymore we're here to know more about ice cream than any other human or company on earth and if that's not happening then we're not jennies anymore you know like when when it comes this but like actually freezing the ice cream didn't matter we just wanted good machines and we were like okay so then when you know ice cream makers start calling from like a little

really around the country to help us you know At first, it was like, no way, man, because artisan ice cream, that's not what artisan is. And then it's like, wait a second. So you've got to be willing to take steps that you wouldn't normally make. You know what I mean? I would never have done that before then. And then I was like, well, geez, this fourth generation dairy in Orville, Ohio actually has a thousand times better machines than we have.

So let's go up there and make ice cream and see what we can do. So we did. We took all of our stuff. We took all the jams. We took all that. You know, we still do a lot in our kitchens, but we just take it up there and use their machines. And it's amazing. We're like, well, that's how the world should work now anyway.

Isn't that like Uber, you know, kind of works that way? You know, we can use other people's, why would we buy it? So it really kind of restructured how we think about things. And through that, we found an incredible amount of efficiency without having to sacrifice any quality. In fact, it got a lot better, which is weird too. But, you know, yeah, it's hard to do. It's hard to make those decisions when you're not forced to. But if you can figure out a way to get your mind out of yourself and look in and ask yourself those hard questions.

Well, we've probably got caught up like working in the business as like, let's step out. work on it, let's work on it instead of in it. I mean, I remember when we took, when we went from handwriting our pints, I thought that everyone was going to riot. You know what I mean? Because this is like, I don't know, it was like a thing that we did, you know, handwriting every flavor. But, you know, when we have 12 people sitting around a table for eight hours a day

and their brains are going mushy because you're writing wildberry lavender, you know, forever and ever. And then somebody talks about a party they went to last night. And suddenly on the shelf at Whole Foods, it says wild party lavender, you know, which is true. That happened. We're like, this, we have to stop this, but we didn't need to let it get that far. You know what I mean? It's not a good job to write pints all day long.

You know what I mean? That would have been something that if I had gone back, I would have easily said, who cares about the handwriting part of it? It's the ice cream. You know, you've got to focus on the thing that you're really there to do. You mentioned earlier answer that. you were journaling from day one, from day one of starting Jenny's, you've been journaling?

No, since the recall. Since the recall. I have journaled here and there, but when big things happen, I like to think about... Is that a regular part of your process? Is that a regular part of your reflective process? I think every day,

I do spend time thinking, and I like to get outside of myself and look in. And I think for any of us in these sort of, you know, crazy careers where we're just go, go, go. It's really important to do that, at least for me. So sometimes journaling helps me with that,

especially if I want to remember I mean, I write a lot. I do write a lot. So it's not necessarily stuff I want to keep, but you know, just to get it out. But during that time, I was so interested in what was happening. It was also felt horrible. I mean, it was a horrible time. But I was so interested in what was happening and was going, like, like when you're in crisis, you can't see color the same way. Like there's a divide between your brain and all pleasure. Like color and flavor. You know it's there, but it doesn't register. It's so interesting how your body and your brain is like programmed to focus and get you through it. And so anyway, all of that was very interesting to me. So I was, so I journaled it.

Do you still have those journal entries? Oh, yeah, I do. Yeah, they're on Google. Like, it's not like handwriting. Do you remember some of the first ones, like what you were saying to yourself? Like, were you writing about being devastated? Were you scared? What were you writing?

No, I was literally writing about what it felt like. Wow. I know that something will come into this void and I will, an idea. a glimmer of hope and I will grab onto it like it's, you know, and it will take me somewhere. But right now it's not here and I can't imagine

it ever being here. It was like blackness, like floating blackness. Like there was a bridge to my future in front of me and then there was the path I had taken to get there were both gone. You know what I mean? At the moment. It was really interesting. Also very interesting. Sorry, we don't have to keep talking about this purpose. No, I think it is kind of interesting. We've got room full of leaders and people listening

about the actual practices that a leader who sustains excellence implements regularly? Yeah, I mean, when I was driving home on 33 during that time, too, there was a bridge, the Fifth Avenue bridge, that they literally took out. And I would drive home at midnight. I mean, I didn't see the sunshine for like eight weeks. I would drive from my garage to the garage. But when I would drive home at night, there were all these lights on this, like,

chasm across the river. And it was, like, my metaphor for, like, rebuilding that bridge to the future. Yeah. But I think that it was an important meta. or skill for me or practice I think for me to get outside of myself and understand that like that forward you know still happens you know the process I spoke with Russ Roberts a great writer and economist on my show and he said every day it's healthy to envision and he said he used a reality TV metaphor

but envision there's a camera on you and you're behind the camera looking and you just said that like that's that's how you get outside of your and look in and I found that that action to be a difference between people who are performing at high levels over a sustained period of time and people who don't because I think that doesn't let you that forces introspection that creates clarity of thought it feels like that's a big part of you yeah it definitely it definitely is yeah but it can also make you second-guess yourself you know what I mean you're you're what you're looking at that and you

don't I mean so so you know it can also be a little bit of a bird I mean Do you have a, like, I assume Jenny says a board? Yeah. Do you, like, how do you, how do you use your board? Because there's some business owners in here, like, what's your relationship like with your, I know you're at the CEO, but you're still obviously Jenny. So what's your relationship like with the board and how do you manage that? That's why you name your company.

I love a board name. So you have to understand, I have never worked for anybody else. I never had another career. I mean, I had a job at a bakery. and I had a job at a library, and then I started my company. And so I love having the board come in. I love having all of our leaders together presenting to the board, not presenting to me or John or whatever.

And it just fills me with pride. We've been through some tough times together, and everybody's always been very supportive. And we're, it's just, it's really cool to see how people come together with their unique, you know, awesomeness and move the ship forward. So I really love the, I love the, I love getting together that way and seeing that.

I love it. I do want to open it up because I know there's probably a lot of questions out there. So let's pause for a second and open up. Does anyone have a question? Yeah, we got one right here. Go ahead. So what you went from spring?

Well, I wouldn't call them brands. I mean, in a way, because they were just stands in the market. And I don't think that I was thinking that way. I think I just wanted to have a nice. In fact, when I opened Jennings, I had a paper sign in like Times New Roman that I printed. And you know what I mean? So when I think about what I was thinking from a brand person,

I literally knew nothing about that. I just knew that I wanted to make ice cream, and I knew that I wanted to be an ice cream company for people. All of the ice cream companies that I had worked at and that I'd seen growing up were like, I described it as being like for grandparents and grandchildren. And I wanted to make ice cream for all of the other people in the middle, my friends, people who were skaters or artists

or just whatever on a date, you know, and not necessarily for kids and grandparents, and that's fine too. But so that was, if I was thinking about a brand, I was think, which that is kind of brand thinking, but in terms of like, so they were very similar because they both looked like market stands with ice cream being made in the back

and then being served in the front. And me standing behind there every day, and maybe with another person or maybe just me. And the difference I think was that at Scream, it was me just kind of making whatever I wanted to. And that I think was the main difference, Probably two, I didn't know, probably my signage looked a little less, you know, a little more marked, a few more colors of markers or, you know what I mean? Like it wasn't as professional or whatever.

Not that I would call what I did at Jenny. It's very professional in the beginning. But, you know, it was like, you know, black and white instead of whatever. But the difference really was that I was making whatever ice creams I wanted to every day and hoping people loved that experience versus having what I think of now and what I call it craveable reason to return. So having that like if you want salty caramel because you know that Jenys makes salty caramel, I have it every single day and you can rely on that. And then maybe I change your mind and you're going to get, you know, some new flavor that I'm working on that in the market that day. But I think those are the main differences.

There might have been some service differences. I mean, one thing that I did differently at Jennings was that I put the main flavors in pints from day one. So you could order pints and I didn't have that at scream. It was mostly just scoops. So a few little differences, but the flavors were the same. It was just a matter of like how they were presented. You said it to me before, but I think it's worth repeating because this could apply to any business, not just ice cream, but you create a craveable reason to return. And I think this is where we can learn in other businesses.

Like are we doing that? Like it doesn't have to do just be about food or ice cream. Like am I in my business creating a craveable reason for somebody to come back to me? We all can do that. It doesn't have to be ice cream. But I think that's a, I just love that phrase that we should ponder that if I'm running a financial services firm. Am I creating a cravable reason? And then what's next?

So if you've got, if you've got people who are like, it's only them, I need to get over there and get that thing. Then how are you living up to that promise? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Jay. Let me reset a question. What point did you learn to release control because you've had to hire people as you've grown?

Is that accurate? Yep. Okay. I have been told by other people in the sort of that I've worked with that I have less of a problem with that than many other entrepreneurs. I don't know, but I feel like I have never had, for me, I'm driven by this vision. I need help. My entire story has been about help. It maybe has something to do with starting with $1,200 and not a lot of experience. My whole story has been about asking other people to help me. And so I always have sort of felt that I especially at Jenny's not necessarily at scream, but that I was here to sort of

sculpt and help keep it kind of on track as I can and you know But I've never felt that I have to be I have to be in control of everything I mean, you know I hired a CEO in 2009 or brought in John as a partner for that exact reason I knew that I wasn't a very good boss and I knew that I wasn't going to be able to organize is the company around the idea and that I needed the company to be organized around the idea. And so, you know, I think that that, I don't know, I guess is one of my sort of characteristics or something, but...

Was it tough not being the CEO of the company named after you? No, not at all. I think it would be hard to be the CEO. You know, I know what I do, and I know what my job is. And my job is in service. My job is in serving people and thinking of about what people want and making those things. My job is not in figuring out the logistics chain to make it right, to make it happen. And the two of us work together really, really well

for that reason. If I had to do all of that stuff, the ice cream would not taste very good, I think. You know? That was good point. Yeah. And I actually think a lot about the role of a founder. And I think that a lot of founders kind of,

you know, everybody has their own path, and it's, you know, some founders need to be CEO and that's fine. And some of them, that's what they're really good at. But I do think that there is a role for founders that is customer focused, that is really important, and that you have to be out there. And so building a company that is okay

with the founder being there is maybe the other part of that question. Can you build a company where the founder is still important every day in the company? Because I think that's what happens sometimes, and luckily not in our company, but. Joe, your question. So you said that maybe ever longer one more time.

How it's planning? So the question is, what is? How is the role of planning played a part in your development professionally, personally, and generally? So I am vision-led personally. And so making goals and plans is like the thing that I do all the time. Like it's almost obsessive. And bringing things to life, bringing ideas to life or whatever.

So I am a planner. And in the business, of course, you know, and I love making, even in the early days, I love making a business plan. I mean, my business plan was so complete that when I got the loan, we were open for business two weeks later. And I had to quit my job, too, to do that. So definitely, like, I think planning, and the way that I think that you can plan, or at least for me, is to have a vision. Because then you just work backward from the vision. Whatever it is, I mean, you know, even when I was making my first plan at the market, it's just imagining how many people can I get to stop by every day.

Is it enough? And, you know, how can I change that a little bit? how can they grow that a little bit? And so that was when I learned to use spreadsheets for the first time. And now I've already forgotten that skill. But I do want to talk briefly. I want to get more questions, but I had a great lunch with our firms, one of our firms founder, Doug Meyer today. And we talked, it was all focused on goal setting. And I learned a lot. And it was cool to hear him tell the story from the beginning of the founding of Bricksey and Meyer to now and all the checkpoints and goals set along the way. And it was really helpful for me as I think become better at the beginning. this, what, like, what are some of the goals that you have written out and achieved or didn't achieve? Like, how have goals played a role in your life? Well, it's funny, too, because I do not like to be managed. And like, so when it comes to, like, some of this stuff, you know, in building a regular company and what founders do, I am not a manageable person at all. So if you try to manage me, my goals will go out the window and I will do the opposite. So it's

So they have to be your goals? Yes. Okay. Yes. And that is 100% true. So there can only be one person like this in every company. Does your board play a role or no? You're like, no.

Well, I'm definitely like a, I always want to earn my place at the table and board. And so I always want to make sure that I'm doing way more than, you know, people expect of me and all of that. But in order for me to do that, it has to be my thing. Good little life lesson, but go ahead. I mean, I hope that it's like, you know, my hope is that whenever I, you know, that they more than see the value of having me there. But yeah, but so my goals just, I almost have to keep them private because otherwise

I feel like they get jinxed or something and I feel like I have to like, I have to like bring them to life and I'm focused on that. I don't know, you know what I mean? No. But it literally, I mean, it is everything from, you know, from shops, from speaking is one. I mean, I was, when I was young,

I was very introverted. I mean, I would throw up if I had to do a speech. In fact, I did throw up a lot if I had to do a speech. Once on a teacher. And I moved almost every year growing up, so I was never accustomed to where I was. And anyway, I was a very nervous, very nervous kid. And when I graduated high school, or, you know, around,

well, what happened was junior year Nike came out with their commercial, Just Do It. And I walked into my living room right before school started. It was like the week school started. And the first time I saw Just Do It on TV stopped me in my tracks. And I was like, all right, I will. And for me, I applied that to being comfortable in the world and public speaking. And that was, you know, 30 years ago or whatever.

It took almost all of it to get there. But, you know, I decided that I was going to do that. So I started, like, teaching soap-making classes at Franklin Park Conservatory, just dumb stuff. Like, I just taught myself how to make soap and then started teaching other people how to do it because I wanted to get over that extreme fear. Where I found my real answer was through service. found that I could come out through service. I felt really comfortable in that position and

that place. And that's why Jenny's, one of the main reasons that Jenny's exists, because I can still be in that place and create a world around that and serve others, and that makes me feel really good. And anyway, but those are very, those are goals that I have had my entire life and had to sort of continue to work forward on. Those are very personal. Do you keep them secret? I know there's two trains of thought, like put it out there so people hold you accountable, or keep them internal to yourself? Most of them, most of them are internal. Sometimes I tell everyone. So it's either, I'm the only one of that.

Starting Jennings was one of them. So there was no reason for the market to let me back into the market. I had sort of failed there before. But I got a job in the market. I just started hanging out in the market. I was there every single day, and I started telling everybody that we were opening in the market. And eventually they let us open in the market again. You know, stuff like that.

I don't know. There's, yeah. Yeah, okay. I mean, there's different, like, people who I'm going to meet. You know, like, there are specific people that I have that I just, I know or like me, you know, or like recently, I'm not going to tell the whole story about this because it's really cool, but anybody here are an Outlander fan? Okay, Outlander is just the most awesome show in the history of shows, and it's also books. And I only started watching it a couple

months ago, but I've been so obsessed with it. Anyway, so that was also, it's just dumb little goals. Like, I'm going to, I'm going to like, need the Outlander thing or whatever. Well, now Outlander's following me on an Instagram and, like, we're doing something You know, like, you just make your goals, you know, you put it out or whatever. And I'm like, you know, that's something I was telling everybody. Put another one. What's another one? What's another one?

What's another one? What's another one? No, I wouldn't say it. Are you sure? Okay. Go ahead. Last question. How long does it take to develop new flavors?

It's, the flavors themselves are fun and the easy part. And we could do 10 a day or 20 a day. But it's in organizing. where they're grown, who grows them, and all that. So it's a solid, it can be a solid year. You know, it's not making the flavor per se. It's getting the whiskey distilled in the right level of alcohol and all of that from the distiller that we want to work with or making sure that there is enough goat cheese from, you know,

jeans farm or whatever, you know. So once we figure out what the flavors are, then it's a matter of doing that. And sometimes after that point, we can't make them because they're just, the ingredients aren't available or we can't get them or something like. that. So we always have like a sort of longer roster than what ends up being made. Go ahead. Is that Kay? I was a voice artist, so you all heard her. But the question is, how do you, how do you become, like, the premium priced provider in your space? I remember when we were trying to figure out what

we were going to charge, because you can't use the typical ice cream formula because we would pay that much for ice cream. And so we just asked ourselves, well, what's the most you're willing to pay for price rate and we were like probably three bucks you know at the time and it was like five dollars a pint which didn't cover everything but we were like okay you know that'll be fine that's what we did I mean and so the first you know a few years it was literally like I remember our first the biggest sale I'd ever made was forty five dollars and it was like nine pints and it was to Ann Hamilton and and I remember like I remember just saying like ringing up on my like old you know I

know staples cash register or whatever And I was like, that'll be $45. I just remember thinking like, oh my God. But, you know, I know who made every ingredient in there. It was either me or was, you know, Middle West spirits or it was so many, you know, who grew something or whatever. And to me, I think that you have to charge what it is and then try to live up to that every day. And that's another place where, like, if we had tried to grow quickly, there's no business school in the world that would have been like, yeah, that's a great idea.

You know, this extraordinarily complex, very expensive business to run and to buy and all of this, nobody would say that was a great idea. This business can only exist because we grew so slowly one person at a time sort of convincing people that this is when you're going to eat ice cream or when you're in this ice cream mood that this is the one you want, you know? But I guess it's just that, again, it's like one person at a time, but I do think it's important to to charge what you're worth and then live up to it, you know. I don't. So the question is, since the business is named after yourself,

how have you differentiated between your personal brand of Jenny and Jenny, a splendid ice cream company? I thought most of my career, I thought that I was going to be behind the scenes. I thought I would be behind the counter. I thought I'd be in the kitchen. Most of my life, I wore the same outfit almost every single day. I mean, I had black jeans and white Oxford. every day and and that's recently changed partly it's Instagram too you know in the way that

things have changed in last 10 years where things have become more visual but I really did think that like everything was Jenny's and that you know you know once you start a company you know everything kind of goes into the company we make decisions differently so they are very different but at the same time yeah I really did I didn't think I would be out front as much as I am and now I am now I'm you know for the last five years or so very much out front and it was partly our sort of crisis in 2015, I needed to humanize that, show that, you know, represent the amazing people who work in our company and get out there. But it's funny. It's funny. I never really thought about that. So now, now I think that, to me, it's very clear that the company

is definitely sort of a part of me. You know what I mean? It's like in my DNA at this point, and we're very similar. Our values are the same. The things that we're interested in are the same. if you can think of a company being interested in things. But we are because we're people. And so I think I get this privilege, this wonderful privilege of being out representing that. And none of it feels inauthentic. It all feels absolutely perfect and right.

And I do feel very much like I'm representing everyone at Jennings. The people of Jenny's, not me when I'm out. So funny, I always wear these flowers. And I do that as a symbol of sort of being open, almost like a business, like open to people. and to conversation and whatever, because I want people to talk to me. Like if I'm a target, you know, people go on Instagram,

they're like, I saw you a target, but I didn't say hi. You should say hi. But I feel like there is that, you know, like it's almost like you become almost like a preacher or something, which I think is really wonderful. And I feel like that's something that I got into this business to do in a way, service. And I feel like now I do it just every day and everything that I do, you know? Is that tough, though? Do you have to always be on, like outside of your home?

Is that tough? I do. I mean, even in my home. sometimes I have like all these windows across the front where my dish sink is and so like people walk by you know whatever but um it can be it can be very hard and it's and also you know as a kind of an introvert um it can be hard um but I also think that I was born to do it I think that I was not born to to go out and perform but to serve people you know what I mean like there's is something about that that I feel really I only feel really really engaged in like myself when

I'm doing that and so anyway I always just feel like it's a wonderful privilege I I love it you know that's cool I love to hear that that so starting as an introvert has there been checkpoints along the way that you've that helped you open up to be more empathetic a good listener to to get feedback from customers I think that that's always been something that I've done well. That sort of being with customer, you know, entrepreneurship is building your own world. I've always been very comfortable in that world because I approach it through the perspective of service and that we're all here, you know, for each other and all of that. And so listening is one of the most

important things all of us can do with our customers and just being there with your customers and that's the place that I love to be more than anywhere else in our company. And so that's always been the thing that I've been good at, even more than ice cream actually. In terms of of milestones of like just getting through sort of being an introvert and not wanting to do public speaking and all this stuff because you know you're an entrepreneur you know you didn't realize how much public speaking you're gonna have to do yeah I think that you know just pushing myself and you know the fact that now I can go on stage

with hopefully sick is really great I mean it wasn't very long ago that I like passed out on stage you know so I mean I was yeah doing a talk over somewhere recently I mean not recently but in the last probably 15 years well still one more go ahead oh oh oh oh Is his husband and wife who gets to go? We should probably have her go. You say being an entrepreneur and a mother? Is that what you see?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. So the advice you give to young people to think outside the box kind of like the way you are. Well, I think that if I get to have, you know, what I'm going to do in retirement or whatever, you know, I'm a vision-led person. So I've already got that figured out. That's what it's all about.

Because we teach kids business, which is a complex structure of teachable disciplines. It's HR and finance and all of those things and organization and all of that. But we don't teach kids curiosity and creativity and community. And I think that there is that sort of sweet spot where those things kind of merge and that's where your business ideas come from. That's where entrepreneurship, that's where that sort of seed of entrepreneurship is. And we need more people thinking like that. It really is the Rold Doll School of Entrepreneurship. I mean, it's Willy Wonka.

You know what I mean? And you can just start something. And kids can do it. That's what's so great about entrepreneurship. Like you're not allowed to get a job when you're 10, but you can start a business. And so I think that it's really important for us to let kids explore and to create that explorer personality. And also to just tell people, tell children, young people, anybody actually, that you really can bring anything to life in America.

You can do this here. I really want to help create that in Columbus, especially. So we have a little thing called Maidstand, and it's like lemonade stand except that you can make anything you want, you know? And we're just starting it. So we have a little Instagram page, made. Dot stand, and the idea is over time, over the next few years, we're going to learn more about how to do this better and who we need to be partnering with.

and so that we can help kids learn that that's a path that they can take with anything. Once you get this lens, you can apply it to science, you can apply it to language and art, and all the other things that you love and your skateboarding or whatever, and everything you learn from then on. And then, even if you don't end up being an entrepreneur,

having that and working in another company, it's the sort of, you know, is also a good thing. So I think we need to get better at that. Jenny, it's a great place to end. I am so appreciative. of you investing your time and energy and great stories with all of us here today. Let's give it up for Jenny, Britton Bauer. What a fun night in Columbus, Ohio, with so many of our friends, fans of Jenny,

clients of Bricksey and Meyer and prospective clients. It was great to get together with so many intelligent, thoughtful people and have this dynamic conversation on stage with Jenny. And you should have seen here afterwards so many fans coming up. up wanting pictures and autographs and she could not have been kinder and such a great listener I just feel feel so lucky to have gotten to share the stage with her a few of the topics that we discussed that really stood out first on adversity she said you want to say you've got talent hustle and guts you want to tell that to the world but you don't

really know until you have to prove it and they certainly did through some of the ups and downs and speaking of that community if we create a community. Everything falls into place, something Jenny has said. Put your values front and center and merge with the community. When the community sees your business as vital, they will help you when times are tough. And then, are you creating a craveable reason to return? Why would a customer come back to you? Why would someone follow you? What are you doing as a leader that makes others want to continue coming back to you? Jenny spoke of this in the world of ice cream, but I think it applies to all businesses and leaders around.

What are you doing to create a craveable reason to return? I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. If so, I'd love it if you would tell a friend or two, perhaps one that has never listened to the Learning Leaders show. This one with Jenny Britton Bauer is a fantastic place to start. And because you continue to do this, it gives me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so much. Talk with you next week.

Can't wait.