The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 386: Nik Wallenda - How To Rise Above What's Holding You Back (Life On The Wire)

Episode Date: October 4, 2020

Text LEARNERS to 44222 Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com IG/Twitter: @RyanHawk12 Notes: The Learning Leader Show "Life is on the wire. The rest is just waiting." -- Karl Wallenda (Nik's grandfather)  "Fear of Feathers" -- One of the greatest fears of our current age: uncertainty. On March 4, 2020, Nik completed his greatest accomplishment to date, walking over the lava lake of the active Masaya Volcano.  On June 4, 2011, Nik Wallenda successfully completed the high wire walk in San Juan that took his grandfather's life -- a 135-foot-long high-wire crossing between the two towers of the ten-story Condado Plaza Hotel. John Maxwell saw Nik speak at an event and encouraged him to write a book. Nik shares how his worst fear came true when five family members fell while doing a stunt. He thought, should I get back up on the wire? He learned from his family that they always fulfill their contracts. "I get goosebumps telling this story... My dad said, 'I'll always be there for you.'" "It's my job as the leader to figure out who's shaky and be there for them." Work to counter negativity with positivity and preparation. Nik's mother walked the wire when she was six months pregnant with him. "This is the way I came into the world. This is the way I want to go out." "One day you eat the chicken. The next day, you eat the feathers." "What you would call fear, I would call respect." "The worst thing you can do for a wild animal is show it fear. Show respect instead." "I never wear a harness unless my network partner makes me." The preparation process for a big event is meticulous and intense. He wears an oxygen deprivation mask to feel what it's like to not have a lot of oxygen. "It's all about building mental confidence." Make training much harder than the event "You cannot ever train enough." "If you think you should practice 5 times, do it 50 times." Excellence = A passion about being good at what you do Too many people are miserable at what they do. It's fear. "Even if you hate your job, do it with excellence." "You have to show up at work every single day." "Be positive, force yourself to smile." What is Nik thinking while walking over an active volcano? "I'm free, I'm excited, I have every emotion you can imagine." Alex Honold and David Blaine have become great friends and are very helpful.

I get goosebumps as I tell the story, but it didn't even cross my mind to even consider walking the wire. I have to wait to see if my sister's going to live. I have to see if my aunt's going to be able to walk again. I have to see with Andrew, you know, they were very injured. But I said, well, I just want you to know if you're going to do it, I'm there for you. And I'll be there to support you. And my father is my lead safety, my lead rigor. He oversees everything that keeps me safe.

It's my job to stay on top of that wire. It's his job to make sure that wire doesn't come down. And for him to say that, it sort of came as a shock to me. But I remember sitting there and thinking, you know, this is what my family would do. My great grandfather lived by the words the show must go on. And every autograph that I signed says never give up. So this is what I probably should do. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show presented by Rixie and Meyer.

I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text learners to 4-4-2-2 in order to join. tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world. Receive Mindful Monday updates what I'm reading, writing, watching, thinking about. Also give you more details about how my book, Welcome to Management, will help you become a more effective leader. Text learners to 4-4-222.

Now on to tonight's feature leader to the great Nick Walenda, holder of 11 Guinness World Records, and a list of never-before-seen death-difying feats. Nick has written his name in the history as truly the king of the high wire. He has performed live in every state in the United States and all over the world, garnered the support from tens of millions of live viewers and network television specials on ABC and the Discovery Channel. From crossing the Grand Canyon and Niagara Falls to walking blindfolded between two towers. in Chicago. Nick personifies the Willenda family legacy of never giving up and has time and time again

proven that fear is a liar. A few of the topics we discussed, the three keys to conquering your fears. And then his meticulous preparation process and how you can implement a similar framework. And then Nick shares his mindset when he's out on the wire without any safety harnesses. His stories are gripping and will keep you on the edge of your seat. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Nick Walenda. All right, Nick Willenda, it's so good to have you here on the Learning Leaders Show. Welcome. Thanks for having me on. I, as I was telling you before we hit record, I've watched you numerous times on TV. So it's, it's pretty surreal to get the opportunity to talk with you. But I want to jump quickly to a moment in your life to kick this one off. And that is John Maxwell, a guy who's been on this podcast

multiple times, and you happened to be speaking at the same event. And you started telling your story beyond just what we see on TV. You started telling your story to him. And he was so compelled to pay attention to it by your, one, just your story as fascinating as is, but you as a storyteller compelled him to tell you to write this new book. And in so doing, he actually wrote the forward to it. So can you take us to that moment in your life when you're sitting with John and you're telling the story and tell us the story that you told him? Yeah, look, first of all, John is just, he's a genius, as we all know, anybody listens to this show that's heard him and is an amazing mentor. What I love about John Maxwell is that when John is speaking with you or when he's speaking with

the person sweeping the floor or the CEO or the president of the NBA, it doesn't matter. He is in the moment, no matter what he is there. Doesn't matter what your pedigree is, where you've been, and I admire him for that. It's one of the struggles that I deal with because I am so busy and getting pulled in a million different directions all the time, it's hard to be in the moment when you're speaking with somebody. And I certainly am envious of him. It is something that I wish I could do better. And I think great leaders have to have that quality in order to be great leaders because clearly it's about our team.

And if our team doesn't feel appreciated and wanted, they're not going to be part of our team much longer because they're going to find somewhere else that does appreciate him. And again, so just to lead into that, John is just, again, he's just such a gracious individual and he cares about everybody that he talks with and cares about helping anybody that he's in connection with no matter what their story is again. So we were speaking at an event together and backstage, and he knew of my family history but didn't know of Nick Walenda. So he started asking me questions, which is what John does. And I started answering these questions and tell him a little bit about my pedigree and my background and the things that I've been able to accomplish in my career.

And he just can't have digging and asking these questions. And I said, you know, I started talking about an accident that we had about two years ago. We had a very, very bad accident. We were training to break our own world record, actually, on the wire. And as we trained for about six weeks in my hometown of Sarasota, Florida, we trained at different levels. We start at two feet off the ground. Then we go 10 feet. Then we go 15 and then we go as high as we need to to break the record. So we were only 28 feet high, but what we were doing was something that was, it's a nearly impossible feat. And unfortunately,

tragedy proved that more than once. But we were training for a four-layer eight-person pyramid on the wire. My family history dates back to the 1780s, over seven generations, 200 years. My family have been performing. My great-grandfather in 1942, or 47, I should say, created the seven-person pyramid on the wire. And everything I do is sort of to pay tribute to my ancestors and my family history. And we were going to do that by raising the bar and doing this eight-person pyramid 28 feet above the ground. Trained meticulously, we were ready to go. We got on the wire about 28 feet above the ground for two rehearsals prior to actually opening day where we were going to premiere this in front of a live audience. We, we practiced.

one evening, everything went without a hitch. I wouldn't say it went great, but it never does. When you have eight people tied together, 30 feet above the ground with no safety devices, it is a mental game. It is a mind game to its core. It is literally one per each of us trusting our lives in seven other hands. So that evening it went okay. We decided to call it tonight, came back the next afternoon, made our way out on that wire, and as we made our way out on that wire, I was in the back on the bottom of that pyramid, and about I was almost halfway out onto the wire and that pyramid collapsed. So my biggest nightmare became a reality at that moment. By the grace of God, I caught the wire.

A couple of my, well, my cousin did and another gentleman working for us all stayed, caught caught the wire. Five of my family members fell to the ground. And it was at that point that what I didn't realize that moment in time, as I caught there dangling from the wire, looking down on five of my friends and family members on the ground, injured seriously, there was a seed planted in my mind, a seed of fear, a seed of doubt. And I didn't know it. So, a long story short, my sister was injured very, very bad. My aunt was injured bad. A lot of broken bones. My sister broke every bone in her face, actually landed on her face, 73 screws and plates in her face alone. The statistics say there's about a 30% chance of surviving from falling from that height.

We had five people fall from that height. So the odds were certainly not on our side. Went to the hospital. My sister went immediately into a coma. following day, I had a decision to make. And it was, do I get back on the wire, which is what my family had ever always done? In fact, there was an accident that my family had in 1962 performing in Detroit, Michigan, at the State Fair Coliseum. And as they made their way out on the wire in the formation of that seven-person pyramid, it collapsed.

During that accident, two of my uncles were killed. One was paralyzed from the waist down. My grandfather, my great-grandfather, Carl Wollender, who's sort of the patriarch, who brought our family of the United States in 1928, he was in the hospital. with many injuries. He snuck out of the hospital the next day to get back on the wire and perform. And so I was sitting in the hospital very much a parallel to my great-grandfather's life thinking, what do I do?

I was scheduled to actually speak. I do a lot of motivational speaking, but from the wire. So, for instance, a corporation will rent out an arena. And at this point, for this event, it was Emily Arena in Tampa where I was going to walk in a wire 120 feet up. They bring in 14,000 of their employees, and I walk and talk at the same time. And so I remember sitting in the hospital room and thinking, do I get back on the wire or do I give it up? And the reason why give it up even came to mind was not out of fear at that point.

I didn't fear had not set in. In fact, I didn't realize fear was in my DNA up to that point. But it was out of respect for those had fallen. I had survivors guilt. And I was concerned or I felt guilty the fact that I wasn't injured and all of them were and would have traded places with them. And still to this day would have traded places with them at any moment. moment if I could. But I had to make that decision. And I remember sitting there in the hospital waiting room, my sister, not knowing if she was going to survive, and my father sitting across

from me and being concerned that my father was going to be very bitter towards me, because here is his baby girl, his only daughter, and we don't know if she's going to live. And here I am the leader of this troop saying, hey, let's do this cool thing. Let's break this world record. I'm continually pushing people to be better and stronger and push the limits. And, uh, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I remember my dad looking at me and saying, you know, you have a contract to perform tomorrow night. What do you think you're going to do? And I said, Dad, I didn't even cross my mind. I get goosebumps as I tell a story.

But it didn't even cross my mind to even consider walking the wire. I have to wait to see if my sister's going to live. I have to see if my aunt's going to be able to walk again. I have to see with Andrew. You know, they were very injured. But I said, well, I just want you know if you're going to do it. I'm there for you. And I'll be there to support you.

And my father is my lead. he's my lead safety, my lead rigor. He oversees everything that keeps me safe. It's my job to stay on top of that wire. It's his job to make sure that wire doesn't come down. And for him to say that, it sort of came as a shock to me. But I remember sitting there and thinking, you know, this is what my family would do. My great grandfather lived by the words the show must go on. And every autograph that I signed says never give up. So this is what I probably should do. But I can't do it without permission from those that had fallen. So I went room to room in the hospital rooms,

and I remember asking each of them, other than my sister who was in a coma, what do you think? And I'll never forget one of the gentlemen, Andrew, who was injured very bad, broken hip, broken calcaneous, broken leg. He looked at me just kind of somber and quietly. And he goes, you know, I think you're crazy. He goes, but it's what you guys do.

So I think you need to get back on the wire. So at that point I did. I got back on the wire, went on to perform for another six weeks straight. I did that speaking event and then I was performing headlining on a show. The show that we actually fell, the accident that we had, I went back and performed there for the next six weeks. I was contracted to do so.

It was a smaller act because, of course, a lot of our members were injured or still in the hospital, but went on to perform. And after those six weeks, I took about a six-week break. And then we were contracted to head to New York City to headline on the Big Apple Circus doing the seven-person pyramid. So after six weeks, we went to New York and started training with several new members because of the injured. And I'll never forget the moment I got out on the wire in that pyramid.

And this is a pyramid that I'd done thousands of times, probably more than anyone in the world. I've literally walked thousands of miles on cables. And I got out on that wire. And I remember sensing a jitter, shaking on the wire. And that is very often doing what we do. I talked a little earlier about how much of a mind game it is. It's often that someone in that pyramid will be nervous.

and they'll be shaking and it'll kind of spread around, but I've never had that experience myself in my life. And I remember going on to practice for about a week. And after a week, I kept saying, who's shaking? I can't figure it out. It's my job as the leader to figure out who's unstable, who's shaking, why they are, and then hopefully help them clear their mind, build confidence in them so that they're able to overcome that nerve

or the nerves that are causing them to shake. And after a week, I remember going to my wife and saying, I want you to go up on the platform and watch, me hold this pyramid and let me know. Now my wife comes from seven generations of circus on one side, eight on the other. She has two Guinness World Records herself, an amazing performer, but we've agreed since we were married that we will never do that pyramid together because of the dangers involved, as well as the fact that we have three children. So she stood up on the platform, and I remember finishing and going down and going back to our apartment. She goes, and I said,

who's shaking? Because I wanted it in private. I don't want to embarrass. I don't want to call you one out in front of the group. It's not about that. It's about building. It's about building. building them up, not tearing them down. And I remember sitting down and she said, Nick, it's you. And I remember thinking, there's no way. That just doesn't, it's not who I am. That's not what I do. And she said, no, it's you. So we practiced for another week and I was still feeling this. And at that point, it started to get stronger and stronger. So that seed that was planted, that was starting to grow in my mind that was planted back during that accident in February, was starting to get watered and it was starting to overtake my thoughts. And now I'm holding the pyramid and I'm

watching the pyramid collapse in front of me. So I'm now reliving that accident as I'm holding that pyramid to the point where finally after about 10 days of that, me trembling on the wire, I went back to our apartment, New York City and I looked at my wife and I said, I'm done. Can't do this anymore. I can't do it. And she said, look, she goes, I support you in any decision that you make. She said, but I want you to sit down and really think about your family history. What you think about your family going through triumph and tragedy. I've lost seven family members performing. We've had horrible accident throughout our career.

And she said, one thing that you guys lived to do and that you've always lived to do is to inspire people that nothing's impossible. And they can overcome any challenge that they're faced with, including a mental challenge. And she said, if you don't get back on that wire, think about all those people that you've inspired. And what kind of a role model would you be to those people?

And at that point, I sort of, I was mentally, I was weak. was torn up that, you know, I talk about that seed that was planted in my mind and throughout my career. And when I speak to public groups or businesses, often talk about that seed turns into a plant that germinates and spreads seeds throughout the entire, you know, your entire garden eventually takes over if you don't get it out. If you don't pull it out, I talk about the story of walking over the Grand Canyon when as I was walking over the Grand Canyon, 1500 feet up, 48 mile an hour wind gusts hitting me, no safety devices whatsoever. My mind wanted to to go crazy. My mind wanted to get down on that wire, grab on, hold for help, and wait till the rest

you got to me. But immediately, I can counter that thought of negativity with something positive. And in that instance, I would say, hey, well, you've trained with 90 miles per hour wins. You've over-trained. You've over-prepared. You're ready for this win. You're more than prepared for this win. So just keep walking. Just keep moving. Well, I'd forgotten to practice what I've always preached and I had allowed this thought of fear and this thought of doubt to overtake my entire mind and I remember just sitting there and going man I just feel I just feel beat up and destroyed mentally which which destroys you physically too and so the next day I said okay I'm going to get back on the wire I'm just going to push through this I got back on the wire

and after that practice one of the gentlemen who's been with me literally my whole life has performed alongside of me grab me and he literally grabbed me by the chest and he shook me and he goes what the hell is wrong with you? He's like, this is not Nick Willenda. This isn't the leader. This isn't the one we've looked up to. This isn't the strong tower that we all go to when we have issues. What is going on with you?

Snap out of it. And it was a revelation now that shame had set in because I went, it wasn't something I was hiding. I thought I was hiding all of this. I thought I was keeping it in on my own. Even though I was shaking, they don't know. I'm in the back.

They have no idea. And now all of a sudden, here I am shamed because I realized, Oh my goodness. I thought I was Mr. Cool and Calm and Collective. Even though I'm a mess when I go back to the to the apartment, I am, I am not that. And I felt like I lost my influence at that point. And that's really what woke me up to go, you know what, this is not who I am. This isn't who I am. This isn't who I was created to be. This isn't who I always been. And I'm not going to accept that. And then began the greatest battle of my life. It was the hardest thing I've had to overcome. I have had to overcome. I have had. had to change laws. I changed the law in the United States that was over 100 years old to get permission to walk across Niagara Falls. I had to change that same or similar law in Canada for that same walk. I would say it was it was harder to get permission to walk across Times Square than it was for me to walk across Niagara Falls because of the changing the laws. I've done these these crazy

things outside of the wire, let alone, it's funny. I talk about that because wire walking is my life, but let alone walking across Niagara Falls and, and, and, and, the Grand Canyon and breaking at that point, I think I had nine Guinness World Records. Here I am now facing a battle that you would think would be something that wouldn't be a challenge for Nick Willenda. I've overcome these mental challenges of facing 48 miles, mile narrow winds, of facing horrible wind gusts and weather, rain so thick or mist so thick when I walked across Niagara Falls that I started on the U.S. side in Canada couldn't even see me because the mist was so thick. I faced all of that stuff mentally. Here I am, though. Now I have this little word fear. A four-letter word has now

overtaken my mind. And I told John that story, and I told him about what kind of the journey that I went through to overcome it. And of course, he was obviously, because of him writing the forward and encouraged me to do this. But he was a believer. And he said, you need to write this story, man. People need to hear this. What is fascinating is I started writing this book, probably a little over a year and a half ago. And since then we've been hit with this pandemic, which has changed the dynamics of the world. And a lot of it is fear.

A lot of it is fear-based. And so timing is certainly very good to write a book called Facing Fear. And of course, John, with his incredible wisdom, probably somehow knew it was coming just because it's John Maxwell. You mentioned in your, thank you for telling that story. I can see why John was on the edge of his seat the whole time. You mentioned your grandfather, your great-grandfather, Carl. And in 1979, he fell to his death from a high wire strong between two buildings in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

He was in his 70s. So you've experienced falls. Members of your family have died from doing this. From the outside looking in, it seems like, is he just going to go until he falls? calls, much like, yeah, I'm curious. What do you think when people say that? It's interesting. My great-grandfather said it best, Carl.

He said life is on the wire and everything else is just waiting. My great-grandfather, who you mentioned, he fell to his death. It was actually 1978 in Puerto Rico. He was 73 years old. He had several injuries. He had an injured collarbone at the time and a couple other injuries. And the wire was rigged improperly. So really what led to his death wasn't the fact that he was initially what led to his death,

wasn't the fact that he fell from the wire. It was because he was walking on a wire that was unstable. And as he walked out on that wire, we did studies for one of my TV series on the Discovery Channel, where we brought in geriatrics doctors that really studied the film of that. And what they believe happened was that because of his age, his heart wasn't able to accept the amount of blood pressure from the adrenaline that he was receiving because that wire is so unstable. See, walking a wire for him was normal.

So getting out on a wire to walk between two skyscrapers, his blood pressure, his heartbeat, my heartbeat will go down sometimes before I do these walks not up. So it was just normal. But then when he got out there, all of a sudden, here is this incredible jolt of adrenaline that eventually they believed causing me going to cardiac arrest.

Went down to hold on the wire fell. I have been blessed with the opportunity to go back and recreate that walk, went back. In fact, moments before he got on that, wire, he was interviewed by a reporter on the sidewalk down below. Moments before I got on the wire to recreate that walk, I was interviewed on the sidewalk with the exact same reporter that interviewed him before he went up and lost his life. So, again, many parallels, but all about honoring my great-grandfather.

But what people don't understand is this is my life. I started walking a wire before I was, before my feet were on terra firma. My mom was six months pregnant with me and still walking the wire. As soon as I could stand, before I could even stand, actually, my parents were holding hand on a wire two feet off the ground, letting me walk. For my family, this is life. It is our passion. It is what we love to do. It is not a job. It is not a career. It's not an occupation. It is just who we are. I can't imagine not walking a wire at least three, four, five times a week just because that's what we do. Now, one of the challenges of that is tell Tiger Woods to stop

hitting a golf ball when he retires from the PGA's tour. He's not going to. It's his passion. Tell Michael Jordan to put the basketball down. Just because he retired from the NBA, he still has a full court in his house because he still loves basketball. That's the same with us and what we do. Now, the difference is what we do is obviously very, very dangerous. We are risking our life. So here we are passionate about what we do and it is our life. What I would tell you is my great grandfather always said, look, this is the way I came into the world and this is the way I want to go.

And I believe words are powerful. I believe that we can speak life or we can speak death. And my great grandfather, that to him was life, even though it led to death. For me, I have no desire to die that way. I will retire from these big walks eventually. I would say by the time I'm 55, I'm 42 now, so I've got a good 13 years left in me. But there will be a point where I'll stop for sure. I will tell you, the older I get, the more I think about stuff, the more your mind thinks,

and the more you fall off that wire in practice five feet off the ground. It hurts a lot more. It takes a few more days to recover than it did when I was younger. So there will be a time where I will stop. But it is, again, it is our passion. And it is not a death wish of any sort, as some might think. I totally can, you know, I'm level-headed. I can see from the outside and see why people would say,

dude, you're nuts. You've lost seven family members. Why the hell would you do it? But again, the closest comparison I can give you is somebody with a passion like Tiger Woods, who, look, I love this. How am I going to stop doing what I love? And it's the same with, look, we see mountain climbers and we see these slackliners now, and it's becoming a big thing.

And they lose their life too, but they lose their life doing what they love. And I will tell you that if I were to lose my life, then I would be losing my life doing something that I love. But I have a beautiful wife. I've got three awesome children. They're grown. I've got a 22-year-old Marine, a 19-year-old in the Army, and a 17-year-old daughter who's about to go into nursing school.

But I... Do you expect them to, when they get back from service? Thank you for their service. through our country, but so very much so. That's the highest form of service. I really appreciate that as an American. I can be more proud of them. Yeah, I can imagine. When they get back, are they going to live their life on the wire? Do you do you anticipate that? Let me and my wife, because we started so young, we both started performing as little kids. For four generations, our family have performed together. So we sort of had that bug, if you will,

at a young age. I was in front of a live audience at two years old performing as a clown. My parents were performing in SeaWorld, and I would come out in a pillowcase. The clowns would carry me out and dump me in the ring. I'd have clown makeup up on and do a skit. So that was sort of life to me. Because of that, and because of our industry, look, talk about business. We're in an industry that is dying.

My wife wrote a book in, I'm sorry, my wife. My mom wrote a book in the early 80s called The Last. to the Walendas because she felt there was no future. The circus industry was dying. It was going away. And in fact, my parents did everything they could to push me out of this industry. I was 17 years old, was accepted at Southeastern University and was going to go on to become hopefully a pediatrician was my thought. And that's when the phone rang and we were invited to go back to Detroit, Michigan, to recreate that pyramid I talked about that collapsed. And I remember convincing my parents to allow me to do that. Then I would go off to college and then

getting there and going, you know what, this is my passion. And our industry isn't dying. If Larry King Live has never been interrupted, but it was because we were doing this pyramid at the same time as his show, if we have satellite trucks what seemed like for miles down the sidewalks, following what we do, our world isn't dying. Our world is changing. The circus world has to change and adapt.

And that's when I set off to do the things that I've done. That was sort of like something went off in my head. And there was a light bulb and went, you know what? People love what we do. They're fascinated with it. We just got to do it different. and bring it to them in a different way, which is when I started pursuing Niagara Falls in the Grand Canyon and TV and all that stuff.

But I was in an industry that was dying. So because of that, even as I went through it in my first book, balance, I talked a lot about the back and forth of how I had pursued this dream. And yet you had to work in a restaurant while I was pursuing this dream, the starving artist. And my great grandfather in his book that he wrote in the 70s said, in the circus world, one day you eat the chicken and the next day you eat the feathers.

I lived that life. And there's a lot of businesses that way, for sure. but I lived that life of eating the feathers over and over again. And for me, it was eating the chicken one day and feathers for the next six. And then I get chicken again. So I went through all of that stuff. And it was very, very tough to get to where I have in my career. Because of that, me and my wife have tried to protect our children.

We didn't allow them to form in front of an audience. They all walked the wire. My 22-year-old Marine was here for a – I was doing a shoot for Time magazine a while back. And as we were on the wire in between shoots, we were on the beach. We had a wire set up. He got on the wire. And I couldn't knock him down. I was doing everything.

I could to knock him off, which is part of our training. I couldn't knock him off the wire. And so they're very, very good. But we really encourage them to pursue their own thing and step outside of this. Not to mention the fact that their dad has had this amazing career, been blessed with his amazing opportunity. I have 11 world records, walked in places that people wouldn't even consider, again, changed two laws in New York.

And I don't say that boastful. I say it because I'm so blessed for those opportunities. But that's a lot of pressure for a child to have. I will tell you my son that's in the Army was in boot camp about a year and a half ago. And his sergeant looked in him and said, Wellenda, and to call them a few names because that's what they do. They're Jill Sargent. You know, basically you idiot. Why aren't you walking a wire?

Why the hell are you in the Army? And he told me the story of my son. And it actually was very emotional for me. And he said, he's plans on going off to be a doctor. He wants to do what dad wanted to do, was considering doing it 17. But he said, Sergeant, I might end up doing that after I get out of the Army. So to answer your question at this point, and I'm sorry, I'm very long-winded with my answers, but the reality is we've really encouraged them to do their own thing.

Of course, they would have my support and all the experience that I have been given and blessed with to help them in their career if they did choose to do so. But at this point, they all have had their own dreams and ambitions. And as parents, again, with two in military, I don't know anything else I can be more proud of. Yeah, I'm certain of that. I want to talk about preparation because I think this translates to all worlds and certainly to leaders, whether they're preparing to give a big town hall speech or preparing for a meeting or preparing for a one-on-one, whatever may be. To me, in my life, when I think about big moments,

And I've been scared. I certainly have done anything like you, but, but, but I've had big scary moments. What has eased some of my fear has been over preparation. And I know that is a critical component to what you do. Can you share some of your maxims around preparation and how that could potentially apply to leaders in all facets of life? Of course.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, preparation is key. It's funny you said that because, you know, when I started speaking in front of crowds, I'm just like anyone else. It's scary. It's intimidating. You know, I don't know why. So you'll go and for a corporate event speak on a wire with no harness?

That's right. Yeah. Like how high up will you be? Depends. I just did United Rentals and they rented Lucas Oil Stadium. And I walked about 200 feet up above the stadium and talked while I was walking. So you're you fall. You're dead.

Yeah. To like thousands and thousands of people are giving a keynote speech. that's close my mind with no harness here's what'll blow your mind i am way more peaceful and calm leading up to a to a speaking event if i'm going to be on the wire really why if i because it's my home there's something about something about being on that wire that brings me at peace so do you when you're up there and especially inside a dome i guess there's no wind which i would imagine wind has to be a big thing there's no weather do you do you do genuinely feel like i'm good like i don't i i you have do you have you have no fear of falling off?

I don't. I don't have fear. Here's what I would say, and we can go back to your question. The prep. Yeah, for sure. But what you would call fear, I would call respect.

So when I get up to the edge of a skyscraper, my mind says, and I do, parapet wall is the little stem wall at the edge of the skyscraper roof. A lot of people don't know what that is, but it's basically an e-wall. So when I walk up to that,

I don't just jump on the edge of that wall and go, hey, here I am on the edge of the building. I'm Nick Belinda. I'll feel that. Or if there's a railing there, I'll shake that railing and make sure that it's stable. I'll make sure that it's sound. Because again, danger, death is real and the risks are real. So it's not as though I'm arrogant and go, I can just do this and I'll be fine. In fact, every time I've gotten arrogant on the wire, I've gotten a wake-up call. I've slipped. I've been, you know, something has happened where it's a wake-up. So, you know, I, again, I call, I call what you call fear respect.

You see a poisonous snake. I'm not fearful of him, but I respect him. In fact, anybody in the wild animal training, Jackana is a great friend of mine. Of course, in the circus world, a lot of people that used to train animals are friends of mine. The worst thing you can do is show fear to an animal. But respect them.

Give it its distance. You know, if a bear, if you're in the woods and a bear comes after you, don't run because they're going to chase you. That's instinctual. So same with that snake. I respect that poison a snake enough to keep a respectful distance between the two. I respect wire walking enough and we'll tie this into preparing to prepare properly for everything that I do.

So let's talk about my latest walk live on ABC. I walked over an active volcano. No one in the world has ever done it. 1,800 feet eye, 1,800 feet across. I watched it. It was incredible, by the way. If you haven't gone on YouTube or wherever you can find it, this was insane. But yeah, go ahead.

So when I prepare for these, I prepare, in fact, until three days before that, I wasn't wearing a harness to do that walk. I never wear a harness unless my network partner makes me. So Disney, ABC were my partner. We were going back and forth my legal team with ABC, trying to get it proved to not wear a tether. We fought and fought and fought. Eventually, we lost that fight, basically came down to, hey, if you want to, if you want to pay for this walk, then you're going to wear a tether. So I ended up having to wear a tether. So when I train, even if I know leading up to I have to wear a tether because of whoever my contractor is at the time. I train like I'm not wearing a tether.

That's just the way that I train. In fact, the tether adds nerves. It adds stress. It's something I'm not used to. The tether can get caught up. Tether can cause me to fall. If I were to fall with that tether over that volcano, that tether was rigged out about 30 feet.

So I would have fallen and swung about 30 feet from that wire. With the gases and being so strong, there's a chance that if my gas mask got pulled, off somehow because of whatever happened, I wouldn't have survived anyway. But it makes the network happy that, hey, I'm wearing a tether. They can say, well, we did our part, liability, et cetera. And leading up in those meetings, I will sign whatever form it takes, release of liability, waiver, all of that stuff if they, if they'll allow me to not wear a tether. I mean, that's how important it is that I don't, you know, wear a tether. So leading up to that, I was, I basically

my team looks at the area that I'm going to walk. So Grand Canyon, we have an animal up, we do weather studies, et cetera. Same thing at this volcano. We had meters that measured the gas, that measured the wind, every element, the heat, all of that stuff was measured. So in training, I knew that I was going to have to wear a gas mask that would deprive me to about 30% of my oxygen would have been removed. So in training, I wore an oxygen deprivation mask that dropped it down to only getting

30% of oxygen. So knowing that, hey, if I only have 30%, but I'm going to have 70% when I do that, I'll be much better. I walk on a cable that is rig just as unstable or more unstable. I'll walk that cable forward and backwards up to six times. So that means I can do this thing six times forward and backwards before I take that first step on the wire. Again, all about building mental confidence.

So I know if I can do this six times backwards, I can certainly do it once forward with a mask that's at 30 percent with my eyes closed because I had to wear goggles because the gases were so thick that in fact, two days before that walk, we had cables that were stabilizing my wire fail because the gas literally ate through that metal in 10 days and caused them to snap. So that's how thick the gases were. So I knew I could walk with 30% oxygen opposed to 70. I knew that I could walk distance six times backwards. I knew that I could walk with my eyes closed with goggles on.

I also wore an oxygen tank in training. So I had that extra weight. I often add weight. In fact, when I trained for my world record in Chicago, on the incline, I literally would walk up that same incline with my wife sitting on my shoulders so that I knew, hey, if I can do this with my wife sitting on my shoulders, I sure as heck can do it just on my own. All about training and preparation. You talked about speaking and before you speak, look, as you said, the more you train, it builds confidence. The more confident you are,

the better message you're going to be able to deliver. And that is the same with wirewalking. It really is applicable to the next boardroom meeting where you want to deliver something that you want to prove to the CEO that you got your stuff together, then guess what? If you think you should do it five times in front of a mirror, you should do it 50 times in front of that mirror. You cannot ever train or prepare enough for anything really in life, in my opinion. And my career has really led me to believe that way. The other thing that I believe in is delivering to the greatest of my ability. So whether I'm sweeping the floor at a restaurant when I was working in restaurants, I started as a bus boy at 15 and I was the general manager with 23 employees at 21,

all while still trying to pursue this career, this dream of mine, of performing. You know, I talk about that a lot in my book about how fear often causes us to give up on our dreams because, you know, we're fearful of, hey, my dream is to climb Mount Everest. Well, I'll never be able to do it. Again, it's our mind saying we'll never be able to do it rather than our mind saying, you know what, that's not true. And we do. Look, we know the analogy of the angel.

one shoulder and the devil on the other and then fighting back and forth, man, that's real. The battle of the mind is real. I know that I can go out on stage and I can deliver an awesome speech, but an hour, a day, a month before, my mind is saying, you're going to screw it up. You're not going to do it right. And it is that battle of the mind. And it's the same thing that I deal with again, while I'm on the wire when I'm in front of a stage, but I always want to deliver. I always want to over deliver. I've told my children, I don't care if you work at McDonald's or if you work as the CEO of IBM, as long as you are doing everything you can to make your boss's job as simple as possible, you're going to have his job one day. And I'll care if you start sweeping the floor

or at IBM, eventually you will run that company. And we've seen it in the business world over and over and over again, people that will start at that low level. But because of their drive and because of their desire and their will to work hard and deliver at a high level, they are able to eventually take the role of the CEO. Because of what you do, Nick, you're, you're surrounded, one, by a fantastic world-class team. Two, with what comes along with some of the fame as people ask you to speak and you go to these events, you meet CEOs of Fortune 50 companies and some of the most effective leaders in the world.

I'm curious, when you think about and analyze the relationships in your life and those people who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time. You're obviously one of those people and your wife and your family is. But when you think about the commonalities and the behaviors and the actions of those people, what have you found that they seem to have in common? You know, I think it's just will and passion. You know, you have to be passionate about what you're doing. If you're not, then get out of there. You know, again, another reason why this book was so important to me is I think that so many people are miserable. every day going to work because they have this dream.

They're working at wherever it may be, but they're working at A and they want to work at B. But the reality is because A provides a paycheck every Friday and it does cover the mortgage, they don't pursue B. So, and it's fear in the end. It's fear that keep them from pursuing B, the fear of failure, right? Fear of if I leave this job, will I be able to cover my mortgage? I encourage people and it is my life story that as I'm pursuing B, I'm still maintaining the highest level possible, even though I'm miserable.

I don't want to wait tables. I don't want to run a restaurant. That's not who I am. That's not Walenda. That's not my history. It's not seven generations. It's just not who I am. There's nothing wrong with it.

I don't look. I mean, again, I admire people that do that because it takes, you know, I've been there, for one. But I continually worked at the highest level possible and worked my way up to general manager, even though I literally hated going to work every day. But it was that drive of, you know what? I'm going to do everything I do with excellence, because it will. get noticed. And once it gets noticed, it will lead to. Look, karma is real and it works both ways. And I believe

that if you do good, you'll get good. And the reality was, is that's the way I live my life. I try to live my life very humble and work as hard as I can. In fact, I run a couple companies locally in Sarasota, Florida that I own here. And man, when I'm in there, I can promise you that there is not one employee that will tell you that I don't outwork them no matter what. People are shocked. They'll come in and they'll go, what are you doing here? Why are you sweeping the floor? Why are you stocking the shelves? Because because that's what I am and that's who I am. So I think if you live your life that way and continue to pursue, continue to work hard in A, eventually you'll get to be. But it's that fear that holds us back from pursuing that dream. And again, I think a lot of it is will and passion,

just being passionate about being good at what you do. Anybody can be, I told my kids growing up, and I always use them as an analogy, but you can be anything you want. If you want to be a NASA astronaut, you can be one. If you want to be the general of the army or the Marines, you can be the general. If you want to be the president of the United States, yes, and I truly believe, and because of that my children were very confident. I couldn't be more proud of my children because they did have their college paid for. They didn't have to go into the military.

They didn't have to make those sacrifices, but they choose to on their own. And in the military, they are excelling. And I think a lot of it has to do with just the confidence that they have and the reality that that was instilled in them from a young age of guys, you can be anything. I mean it. You can do anything you want. You want to be the head of trauma. You can be the head of trauma in the hospital.

It is possible. It's just about working hard. And that's all it takes. Now, that's not easy. It's not easy when you go in. I worked at that restaurant for seven years and didn't call in sick once. I can promise you, there were times where I would play football. And I remember playing football and spraining my thumb so bad that it literally,

I was busing tables at the time. It literally wouldn't fit in the coffee mugs at the breakfast restaurant I was working with, but I still showed up and worked. Sprined ankles, bruises, beat up from practice and falling off the wire. It didn't matter. I still showed up to work every single day. And again, it isn't as though that's just, well, he's just a different type. He has a different DNA.

No, I can promise you, it wasn't that I wanted to, but I knew that that would pay off in the long run. And even though I didn't want to, I still did. And it's not easy to be a positive person. I'm not just naturally a positive person. It's something that I work at day in and day out. And there are times where I get up in the morning and I am in a bad mood for no reason. And I have made it a habit to read something positive and force myself to smile.

It is amazing the endorphins and what is released in our mind just by forcing ourselves to smile. And we can control. I think that's the most powerful tool we have is our mind. And we are in control of our minds. Our minds are not in control of us. And if you can learn to control to allow where your mind's going to go, and when it starts to go somewhere negative, because it will, it does in me all the time, if you reel that back in and say, nope, I'm not going to think negative, I'm going to think positive. Nope, I'm not going to think I hate my job. I'm going to think this is sustaining me and I'm pursuing my dream.

And if you can live that way, you will excel and you will pursue and you will achieve the dreams that you've pursued for so long. All right, Nick, I want you to take us out on the wire. specifically since basically everybody watching and listening this will have never experienced what you experience on a regular basis. But take us inside your mind and we can pick one. How about the one you mentioned? You're over top of a volcano that's spewing lava. It's hot.

There's gas everywhere. Your mask is fogging up. And as you're, again, if you haven't watched this, watch it. The wire dips down. as you go, just like it did at the Grand Canyon or Niagara Falls. It's not like it's just straight across. It like dips and it's scary looking because it's like this dude is way below the top. It's like he's going to have to climb a mountain on a wire is what it looks like from TV.

Take us inside when you're in the middle. You're right there in the middle of that wire at its lowest point. You have like an uphill climb. You've got the ashes spewling all about. You're wearing a mask. What are you thinking in that moment? So it's certainly not what you'd think I'd be thinking. It is, these are dreams of mine.

In fact, I was flying to Mexico City to speak at a corporate event with my wife, her family, her dad's side of the family's from there. So she wanted to come with me and see some family. And we were flying over an active volcano. It was about six years ago. And I looked out the window. I was sitting by the window, which I always do. And I said, I looked over to her.

I was like, check that out. She's like, what? I said, it's an active volcano. She goes, wow, that's cool. I said, yeah, you know what? I'm going to walk over an active volcano. And she rolls her eyes because she, for two reasons. She's like, you're stupid, you're insane.

And then she's like, I know he's going to walk over an active volcano. When I say I'm going to do something, I will figure out a way no matter what, changing laws, changing rules and regulations, whatever it takes. If it's the impossible, that's what drives me to continue to pursue it. So when I am in the middle of that wire, again, it is, it is freedom. It is exciting. it is an array of every emotion you can imagine. There is a little bit of,

there is a little bit of that borderline fear, respect that I talked about because it is real. There is excitement because this is a dream that I've been working on for so long. There is almost a feeling in the middle. There's often when I get to the feeling, a feeling of, of, and how do I describe it?

Basically, of almost sadness, because it's happened after so long and so much work. Like it's over? Yeah, like it's over. Even in the middle when it's not over yet? Even in the middle. Yeah. Yeah, because, well, I know it's going to be over soon.

This stuff I've worked on for years. Some of these walks, five, six years. And now 25 minutes later, it's going to be done. So I want to make it last often. But then there is that uphill walk as well, which can become, it's physically demanding, of course, with the stability of the wire. And I knew on that walk particularly that, that the wires can become more unstable during the second half of that walk, which is not fun.

In fact, if it was up to me, I would walk the other direction. But because of cameras and the network and my partners at Dick Clark Productions, they felt like I needed to walk that direction. Generally, I want to get the hard part of the walk out of the way first. Whereas if this walk, I had to get the easy part out of the way first. How uphill is it? How does it appear from your eyesight? Yeah, I mean, it's uphill. It is certainly uphill.

It's like straight up, it feels to me. that walk had a catenary, which is that smiley face, the dip of about, I believe it was about 75 feet in the mouth like that. I can't imagine like from your eyesight, are you looking like straight up at this? Yeah, it's not straight up, but it's up. I mean, you're looking up. But again, it is my passion. So when I'm on that wire, it's not, you can't do what I do if you're fearful of it.

And I learned that. And that's why I wrote about it in the book. But you really can't. It's debilitating. You have to have that level of respect. You have to have those nerves. It's just like going out on stage. You can't go out there unprepared and not ready to speak to somebody.

You need to be ready. You need to be prepared. A little bit of nerves is good. In fact, I've been told, I don't know if this is true, but Elton John often pukes in the trash can before he goes on stage. Still. And that's not because he's scared of playing the piano. It's because he wants to deliver to the level that people expect them deliver to. I have that same thing.

I still get those nerves. I still get nervous, but it's more of a respectful nerve. It's not a fearful nerve. It's not as though, oh, I'm going to die right now. It's as though, man, I need to make sure that I make it across safely, obviously, and deliver to the level that people expect my family to deliver to it. When you watch it back, what emotions go through you? You know what's funny?

The only walk I've ever watched back was the Grand Canyon, and it was because Discovery asked me to do a play-by-play. But I don't watch my walks back. I don't know why. I haven't, but I just don't watch them. Really? Do you film your training sessions? Yeah.

And so you analyze your practice runs to make like technique and understand. As a former football player, you know, we filmed every single rep of every practice, certainly of the games and we dissect those. I would imagine that's part of your preparation is, oh, like a step there I missed or I messed up, you know, something like that. Yeah, for sure. Practice is very much training in that way with my trainer. We film everything.

And my parents do a lot of my training, but I have a physical trainer as well. But yeah, so we film practice. But when it comes to the walks themselves, The other thing is my father, my mom, my sister even, they watch those walks, and they will tell me more than I'll see. They'll see it and say, hey, you did this or in the future you should do this. And they'll learn more from it than I would. So I don't know. I think it's because, to be honest with you, I don't feel like I deliver, even on that walk, I don't feel like it delivered or maybe I said something.

A lot of times when I'm talking, that can be nerves more than anything. It's not just me. It's nerves that are talking. Or I said something that is like, I shouldn't have said that. So I think it's the fact, it's more that too. It's about did I say something goofy? And now I'm going to watch it. And if I watch it, and this all goes back to what I was talking about a minute ago,

but if I watch it and I said something goofy, why dwell on the fact, which I would? Oh, you look like it. You sounded like an idiot when you said that. I'll dwell on that for the next five years. But what good is that going to do for me? It's better off in my mind to go, you know what, it's done. It's happened. I've successful.

I made it across. Why tear myself up? It's not even about the wirewalking ability, to be honest with you. It's more about, you know, what do I say? or what do I look like or those sort of things. Have you ever had a conversation with Alex Honnold or David Blaine? Alex Honnold who climbed El Cap with no ropes or David Blaine who just got just floated off with a with a bunch of balloons and then sky dove down.

Like do you do you have do are those guys your friends? Yeah. David, David Blaine's a very close friend of mine. Really? And Alex and me have spent some time together as well. Alex is a different creature man. His mind works differently, even differently in mind. You know, watching him climb Al Caputon.

on that blows me away. Your hands? How bad were they sweating? My hands, I never sweat ever except for watching that show. Yeah. Yeah. He just, his mind works differently than anyone I've ever met.

So I would tell you the coolest conversations I've had were with NASA astronauts, people that have gone to space. I've spent a lot of time with astronauts. I have ambitions of doing something in space eventually. And just the mindset and how the similarities of their mindset, when they get strapped in that seat, you know, it's my mindset.

hours leading up to a walk of, you know, no matter what, the only person that can stop me from walking a wire or condition is my father. I will walk that wire if it's hailing, if it is, if it is beyond realistic to walk across, I get in such a mindset that it don't matter. I'm getting on the wire. It doesn't matter what element is out there. I'm going to walk. My father is the one that is the sound mind that goes, nope, you can't because this or so on and so forth. Now, knock on wood, I've been blessed. I've never canceled a performance. I've postponed for 15, 20 minutes for lightning, but never canceled a big performance. But it is interesting those guys to get in that mindset. Again, Blaine is another one whose heart rate slows down before this stuff. And those look, those are the guys that we bounce ideas off of. They inspire me. Blaine really, in a way, was a big part of my career getting to where it is because of people that he introduced me to. And, you know, one hand wash. as another. And that's just, that's all about business, you know, and relationships. I would tell you that there's no way I would be able to do the things I would have been able to do

without relationships, without the people that I've known and met throughout my career. That is the key to my success is relationships, whether it be my relationship with my father, my uncle, who's my lead engineer, or people that I've met, politicians, et cetera. I'm very connected politically. You'd be shocked to know the relationships that I have in cell phone numbers that I have politically because that is how I often get permission to do these walks. And without those relationships, I wouldn't be able to do it. I would tell you there's probably 50 wire walkers that are better than me on the wire. But I've been blessed with this business mind and this drive and passion to be able to do what I do.

There are plenty of wire walkers out there can do what I can do. Wow, you're the only one I've ever heard of and probably I would imagine just about anybody's ever heard of. And that is the blessing of the drive that I have. Yeah. You mentioned space. What's next? I mean, these things take years to plan out.

So I got to imagine there's maybe a few ideas bounced around or you're already in deep planning. What's next? Yeah, look, I have a big list of walks that I want to do. A couple that I could name is there's something I want to do in space. It's unrelated to a wirewalk. It's more of a stunt. But the pyramids in Egypt are something I've wanted to do for a long time. I'm working on something big in London for Europe, television.

I am working on the Bosphorus in Turkey where I can walk from one continent to another. I've walked from one country, one state to another, but now I want to walk from continent to another. There are so many of them. I've got this long bucket list. And basically, I pursue all of them, and then they sort of happen when they happen. And I continue to pursue them until they do or until I'm ready to put down the balancing pool. And so every day you're getting up on a wire, I would imagine just to stay loose, to stay fresh.

I mean, what's a daily, a normal day for you? Yeah, so I have a wire that's 700 feet long in my backyard, and then I have several other shorter ones that we do pyramids and such on. But a normal day for me would be to get up and hit the gym with my trainer and they get on the wire. A lot of my training will be doing cardio and getting on the wire once I'm out of breath. I do push-ups on the wire, literally without getting off the wire, lay down, get up, squats, all of that I can do on the wire for my training. With a harness or without?

No harness, but I'm not that high. So the 700 foot long wire is about, I think it's 16 feet on each end and then it drops down to about three feet in the middle. So I'll walk that forward, backwards, eyes closed. Just again, just spending time on that wire, the more time I spend, the more comfortable I am. How often do you fall off in practice? Not often at all anymore.

Early on I did. If I'm learning something really new, I might. But, I mean, I haven't fallen since that accident where I caught the wire. I haven't fallen to the ground off of the wire without catching it in probably 20 years. Wow. I have always caught the wire and been able to hang on and get back up or get back in. So when you fall, you grab on with your arms and pull yourself back up and get back on. Yeah, that's right.

Yep. Yeah, which is a big part of my training. Wow. Nick, I could talk to you all day, man. The book is called Facing Fear, Step Out and Faith and Rise Above What's Holding You You Obviously Illustrated a number of the fantastic parts of it. I was much like John Maxwell as I'm reading it and rereading this morning, getting ready for our talk, man.

It's hard to put it down because just and it's kind of a memoir, I guess. In a way, your life story is a fascinating one. And certainly you're the type of guy who's more. interesting each and every day. So I'm just, I'm grateful that you do what you do and that you've put this in writing for all of us to learn from and to benefit from to implement it to our lives. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you having me on and I look forward to others reading that book. Yeah, absolutely. Highly, highly recommend it. And Nick, I certainly would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress. Where would you send my listeners and viewers to learn more about

you online. You just go to nickwellenda.com. It's just n-I-K-W-A-L-L-L-E-N-A.com. You can find out more about me where I'll be, et cetera, and reach out if you want to connect that way. You can also purchase my book there, an autograph copy, or any online retailer, of course. You can purchase it. Love it. All right. Thanks again, Nick. It was great, great talking, man. Thanks so much for having me. All right. Wow. I hope you enjoyed that one with the great Nick Wellenda, some serious passion in his voice. Great storyteller. Okay, I'm going to shift gears and answer a question that I received from a member of

the Learning Leader Academy, my online community online course. This is Melanie from Phoenix, Arizona. She said, since you are always learning, what are a few new lessons you want to share, with us that you have discovered since writing your book and creating the academy content. This was asked to me during a Zoom session with Learning Leader Academy members. So, Melanie, it's a great question and certainly something I pride myself on. I will mention a few key learnings that come top of mind. First, Jay Hennessey blew me away.

I became friends with Jay and senior. leaders with the Cleveland Indians about a year to a year and a half ago, had a great meeting with them in Cleveland. So I was excited to record and get one on tape for others to learn more about Jay's work. And specifically when he said humility precedes curiosity. You must be humble after a long string of successes, his as a Navy SEAL for 25 years. And Jay and team have really studied how to build a learning organization. And they view having a learning organization as a competitive advantage in the marketplace. And I 100% agree that this could be the case for any business or organization. And I think that people like Clay and Josh Gibson and Chris Antenetti

at the Cleveland Indians are inspiring for me. And I think should be for others when it comes to building your organization. A few others, Jack Butcher and David Perrell, I had them on, I recorded within the same week, and both of them are prime examples of young people

who have had the guts to learn and create in public. And it has become the greatest networking tool in the world for both of them, as well as others, where they're able to produce content, whether it's in written or visual form, David as a writer, Jack, as an illustrator and a creator of really helpful products, but they've both done it regularly in public for years and now are reaping

the benefits of it. And I think all leaders should regularly practice documenting their thoughts. And I think it's fantastic if you're able to share it because you will attract the type of people that you want to be around. And I've certainly experienced this with my podcast. That's how I met Jay Hennessy and the team with the Cleveland Indians because they listened to the podcast for years and liked it and wanted to form, uh, they wanted to collaborate to work together to help one another. And that's what we've done and we'll continue to do. So that's what I've learned from Jack Butcher and David Perrell. Bill Perkins, a little bit different episode, but he made me rethink money and turning my

income into great experiences for my family and to create memory dividends. We've been big savers, Miranda and I. We try to be at least. And we certainly are going to continue to do that and automate that process, as I learned from Rameet Satie so that we don't have to think about it, but also be more considerate of creating memory dividends and try to figure out ways to do that for our family. And then I would say another incredible leader, Nancy Kane, when she said, crisis are great greenhouses for leaders to be built. Think about yourself and your own leadership, especially in the moment that we find ourselves in.

That crisis, that's when leaders are made. And we all have the opportunity now to continue to excel our leadership during times when it's tough. And it's certainly we're still in that moment. And I guess I'll name one more, Admiral William McCraven, the value of preparation, of planning, of attention to detail, the building a team to be prepared for one of the biggest moments in our country's history, but then also being able to adapt in the moment like a helicopter crashing and have that not ruin the mission to get Osama bin Laden and to hear Admiral McCraiby. Raven described that. And then told me, I said, what did you do that night? And he said, well, I had 10 other missions going on. I had to focus on those as well. Just blew my mind. And I would point to one extra piece and maybe a question that Tyler Cowan regularly asked. And Tyler Cowan was a guest on a bit ago. But he says, this is from him, recently one of my favorite questions to bug people

with has been what is it you do to train that is comparable to a pianist practicing scales? He says, if you don't know the answer to that one, maybe you are doing something wrong or not doing enough. Or maybe you are optimally not very ambitious. And this is something I think for all of us to think about. For me, I am regularly researching for my next podcast, studying others who are fantastic interviewers like the legendary Guy Raz, talking to them directly, taking notes, listening to my own work, working with a coach, to never forget what it's like to be a beginner, to

regularly put yourself in that position, to be very critical of your own work to strive to get better and better. And so I'd ask you, how are you and what are you doing that is comparatively? to a pianist practicing scales or to Kobe Bryant, how he would always start every workout very early in the morning with basic dribbling layups, free throws, the fundamentals. How are you working on the fundamentals of whatever it is that you do to ensure that you're improving, getting better each and every day? Okay, that's all I got for today.

Thank you again so much for continuing to support this work because you. do, you give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. If you want to be a part of a future episode, email me, Ryan at learningleader.com. Thanks so much. Talk with you soon. Can we?