The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 389: Ed Latimore - How To Control Your Mind, Body, & Emotions

Episode Date: October 25, 2020

Text LEARNERS to 44222 for more Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12 Notes: Episode #389: Ed Latimore The four life lessons: "Never underestimate the power of being likeable and controlling your emotions." "Nothing is neutral. People are trying to help you or move ahead of you. In basic training, he was a terrible shot. He failed the shooting test three times (which was the limit), and yet got a fourth chance because he was likable. And then passed. "They saw me working hard, so they helped me." How to be more likable? -- "Don't curry favor. Be you... Have high standards. Treat everyone with respect. Have impeccable manners. Be comfortable with the fact that you're not for everyone." "No one cares what happened to you or what you've been through. No one is coming to save you." "Society is not going to take pity on you if your problems create problems for others." You need to work to through your own issues and ow your actions. Don't take your trauma out on others." How has Ed built the perspective to not be a victim? "It's about delivering value to others. And not subtracting it. That's destructive. Forgiveness is a powerful idea. Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die." "The most powerful belief you can have is that given enough time, you can learn anything. Rome wasn't built in a day, but Hiroshima was wiped out in seconds." Keep plotting along... Ed did this as a boxer and math and with every aspect of his life. Keep going. "Fall in love with the process." "Make a movement with intention and in pursuit." "A limitation is only as powerful as the energy you give to it. Your dreams also follow this same law." "You'll only be as successful as your worst habit." "You must recognize the problem and/or the limitation." High achievers tend to be a paradox. They have self-confidence combined with insecurity. It creates a fusion reaction. It drives them to continually prove themselves. How is money made? "Give people something they want." Ed desires to be the most interesting version of himself Compartmentalization: You can't approach others with a sense that you're better than them You must be adaptable to a variety of circumstances Understand the dichotomy of being confident and humble at the same time

People have to become really comfortable with the idea that they are not for everyone. Like, you are not everyone's cup of tea. And you really weren't ever designed. And no one is, you know? What? I mean, the best presidents in history who lead in the Indonesia having an approval rating of like 60 maybe? And that's hot, man, like 60%. So it's not, you're not supposed to be for everyone.

But your goal, I think it's a very worthwhile goal in life. to figure out who you are and then surround yourself with people who bring out the best in you and do not demand you to be something else or uncomfortable for something else. Welcome to the Learning Leaders Show presented by Brixie and Meyer. I am Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here.

Text learners to 4-4-2-2-2. In order to join tens of thousands of learning leaders from all over the world, receive Mindful Monday updates. What I'm reading, writing, watching, thinking about. Also give you more details about how my book, Welcome to Management, will help you become a more effective leader. Text learners to 4422. Now on tonight's feature leader, it's a great one.

It's Ed Latimore, bestselling author, former professional heavyweight boxer and competitive chess player, a true polymath. His work focuses on self-improvement and a practical approach to stoic philosophy. A few of the topics we discuss. He shares its four major life lessons and what they mean for you. And then Ed describes why purpose is built, not discovered. and then how to be comfortable with the idea that you are, not for everyone, and why that's powerful for you.

Ladies and gentlemen, you're going to love this one. It's Ed Latimore. Ed Latimore. It's great to have you here on the Learning Leaders Show, man. Welcome. Hey, thank you for having me, man. I really appreciate you taking the time. Sure.

We spoke briefly before we started recording it about excellence. And my love of studying those who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time. And you are certainly one of those. And you've also done a good job of surrounding yourself with others who have as well. What have you found, Ed, to be some of the commonalities among people who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time? I can't remember the book, but this section always stuck with me because someone took it out and put it on Instagram or something. And I said, oh, that's great. High achievers, people who sustain it over Tom, they tend to be a paradox of, like, incredible self-confidence, but also insecurity.

And those two things come together, and it creates this fusion reaction where it drives them to always prove that they're better. than everyone, but they simultaneously think they're good or and maybe not better than everyone is in terms of other people. But they're, they're always trying to prove to themselves at the very least that they are, that they are not incapable. And they're always trying to prove to others that they are capable, even if they deep down believe that. And I thought of when I read that, I was like, wow, you know, that's really interesting. Because at the, at my core, I think that I bring a lot more to the table than anyone. I tell people all the time I go, you know, I'm probably going to be the most interesting person, that most people ever have the fortune of meeting.

At the same time, I believe that I always have to do more and be more and be better. I'm never satisfied. Now, as I've grown a matured that has turned into this idea of, I'm content. I really enjoy my life. I can look at, I can look at what's occurred and what I've went through and how that's built me. And I can go, okay, you know, we've been through some things. We got a few lucky breaks. And we have learned the hallway, but survived long enough to reap the lesson so we don't have to learn the hallway again. and I can be grateful and content, but I'm not, but at the same time, I'm not like ever going to just rest because I know there's just, you know, I only get, you know, 80, maybe 90 years on this planet, the last, you know, 10 of which, you know, I got to start, I got to start cutting stuff out. Like, I can't decide. I want to, I want to work on my jumper at the age of 90, man. I got to, I got to figure that out now, you know. When you say something about that, that you believe you'll be the most interesting person that people meet.

How do you juxtapose that with being humble? Because that's a statement that is not one from humility, at least I don't sense. But I sense you do have humility about you from doing all of the pre-work for this one, and that that's part of what's driven you. So like this delicate balance, I mean, Kat Cole might say, like, her ideal leader is someone who has this equal balance of courage and confidence. mixed equally with curiosity and humility, right? Like the courage and confidence say, this is the way we're going, we're going to do it.

I have courage to stand up to people and I'm confident based upon my previous success that I'm going to have future success. At the same time, I also realize I don't have it all figured out. I need some help. I'm going to be aggressively pursuing my curiosity and obsessions with great rigor with humility. and that equal balance is what can drive a productive achiever. What do you think about that? So I've really given up on the idea of there being a unified thought process or behavior that drives you in everything.

I just, I don't know if it's possible or not, but I do know it is highly unlikely and I've yet to meet someone who has manifested that and been. successful. You know, it's easy to be lazy in everything. Your life just goes to trash. And it's easy to be arrogant and everything, but you'll just alienate everyone and people won't be, they won't be eager to help you succeed. And no one is, no one makes it on their own. So then you get run into another problem where your growth is stifled. So what I have to do, and perhaps all people who have any type of like, you know, sustained excellence or repeated success have to do is, they have to compartmentalize and they have to realize that there are levels to their communication. I cannot, you know, like I have to remember that, okay, when it comes to having conversations

and people being open and interested in hearing what I have to say and wanting to rule for me, I know that that is only possible because of the achievement that I have. and I know I only had that achievement because I approached it with this attitude of a competitor of someone who is out to prove they're better and know they're better. But those two things, if I were to switch roles, that that would be a recipe for ruin.

I couldn't approach people with this sense that I'm better and I have something to prove to everyone. And imagine me trying to go into everything with the, you know, whether it be by, or studying in school or even a service in the military, just thinking of the things that I've done. Imagine trying to go into that with this almost counterproductive humility. Like there's a place for it.

But when it comes time to get things done, that's not usually the place for it. Likewise, when it comes to connecting people, that's not connecting with people and making it. difference in being able to teach, be relatable. That's very important work that a person has to do. I'm a big believer in giving back. You can't really give back if people aren't willing to receive what you're given.

And they're not going to be interested in receiving what you give if you do with a certain attitude. So to sum that up, I just don't think there is one way a person has to be. I think that adaptability is probably more. useful. If you're the same way with everyone, you're going to, same with everyone all the time, you're going to have a big problem, I think. It's like, I feel like some people you know when to

flip a switch. Did you, do you happen to watch the Miami Heat? Did you watch Miami Heat at all the basketball team? I do not. Okay, so let me briefly bring something up that I think about two guys on that team that could flip a switch. And this is, I usually like these to be timeless and this won't because I'm dating it. But whatever, it doesn't matter. Tyler Hero and Jimmy Butler, two of their best players. Tyler Hero last night just went off and basically won the game for his team. These are guys that when they get on the court, they have, I don't find them to be humble at all.

I think they have swag. They've got huge confidence. And that is part of what makes them excellent at their craft while they play. Now, in practice, and I've heard this from others who know them well, in practice and off the core and other things, they work with incredible humility to strive to always get better, not resting on the fact that they crushed it the last game or the last series, but that they're driving to get better and better and better. And that combination of this high level of swagger and confidence during game time mixed with this humility to say, got to continue working on myself and practice to get better so that when the lights get bright, I'm ready to roll. And I would imagine you as a former boxer, you had to live in those kind of both worlds

regularly because when you get in the ring, I'm not a boxer and ever been one. But I would imagine you can't go in there thinking like, oh, I hope I do well. You have to go in there thinking like, I'm going to crush this guy. Right. Because I just, you know, I'd like to hear what you think. Yeah. Yeah. So what you're describing is is learning, okay?

And you have to learn so you can execute. And you only learn, you know, what is that saying? You know, if your glass is full, I can't put my stuff in it, something to that effect, right? So that means a guy has to be, he has to recognize that he got where he's at. Yes, there's some talent. Yes, there's work ethic. but there's a lot of absorbing the proper

instruction being receptive to what works and what's going to drive you to become better. Okay? So you do all that. You have to see the only way you can get better. You can't get into a position to be this way if you're not like that. But then once you get towards

game time or lights on all that stuff, yeah, you know, either you know it or you don't. And if you, and even if you don't know it, you really should act like you do and that you know it better than the other people because now you're in a competition. It is now a zero-sum game. You know, learning is not a zero-sum game. Competition is. Interesting. Ed, you have so many fascinating parts of your life between boxing, the military, being a physicist, an alcoholic at one point, or at least having to get sober from alcohol.

there's a lot to get to it. And you've written about this. And I want to cover some of the parts of your life and then ask you to expand on some of the key learnings you've picked up. And the first one is never underestimate the power of being likable and controlling your emotions. You've identified that as being an important part of your life. Can you share more? Yeah. You know, people tend to go out of their way to help you succeed if they like you, right? And, you know, even if you're going to come at it with the, come, come to that idea with, okay, well, maybe I don't need help, whatever.

You got to understand, nothing is really neutral. People either are trying to help you, whether it be a, and they buy a small amount or a large amount, or they're trying to move ahead of you or set you back, whatever, by small or a large amount. And we're not talking about everybody, because most people don't care about you, but the ones you interact with directly who do have some type of influence or bearing on you, it's one or the other, you know, when people like you, they will help you and you will get more opportunities to do things. And it's going to be up to you to seize those opportunities and use them, but you won't get them otherwise. You know, the thing that comes to mind immediately, I remember.

when I was at Fort Leonardwood and I was going through basic training and I did it when I was older. I just, you know, it's monotonous. It's not physically challenging, but after a while you do kind of get worn down by being, you know, you're basically institutionalized. They tell you where to go.

They tell you, you know, when to eat, when to sleep, whatever, almost when they go to the bathroom. So that's different. Certainly going into it as an adult, And you also, you can't read. It's just boring. Sometimes boring. And then there's nowhere to like, no way to express that frustration.

It's just kind of there. Like maybe your morning workouts. Anyhow, the cool thing that what they don't tell you is you're pretty much just got to show up. Like if you just get out of bed every morning, follow the instructions and just move, you're going to graduate. You'll be in the army, whatever. Here, there's only one thing you have to do. And that is true. You have to pass shooting qualification.

You have to hit 23 out of 40 targets that are set up, I believe, in increments of 50 yards out to 300 from where you're shooting from. And, you know, I was a terrible shot. I just, I don't know why. It just wasn't my thing. And on qualification day, you get three tries. And if you don't make it, if you don't hit 23 out of 40, you got to, you get recycled. And that means they don't kick you out, at least not the first time you fell. They just hold you over and then set you back to the beginning of basic training to do it all over again.

And they don't shoot qualification to the six week of a 10-week program. So you really, I mean, you waste a lot of time and then you got to go do the hard parts of basic again. Anyhow, I failed my three shots. Three-truth. But I understood the basic principles of being likable. even in a position where you can't, you know, being likeable just depends on where you are and what you have to do.

I'm reading that room and I had been doing that because I didn't know when it was going to come in handy, but I've always known it's better to be likable rather than unlikable. Don't you know they had a few extra rounds left and they picked a few people who didn't qualify to shoot for a fourth time. And on that fourth trial,

I hit 23 out of 40. I felt an unbelievable wave of relief, and I knew it was because people were looking out for me. I mean, I had the experience when I was studying for my degree. I mean, I was getting my ass handed to me one semester. It was bad. I think I took, I was taking electromagnetism, mechanics, solid state physics, and something else.

I can't even remember. Oh, thermodynamics. There's a hard load. Anybody listening who is familiar with a physics undergraduate load, they should be wondering why, and the heck, my advisors even let me do that because I argued to do it. I said, let me do it. I'm trying to get out there quick.

Yeah, I wasn't quit for this whatsoever. And I was, like, failing everything to the point where I had to, like, pulled out of two classes and it still wasn't going to be an easy uphill battle. But I knew if they saw me work. hard, but they had to see me working hard. Otherwise, I could just say I'm working hard or whatever. I know if they saw me working hard, they would work with me and help me and give me extra time. So I was in office hours all the time, staying later, asking questions, right?

I mean, I was really showing that I was trying to grasp the material, like, like really trying to understand it. And I ended up passing both classes, I would have seen. Now part of that has hard work with the other part of it is I got a high work. opportunities to earn back things, go over, go over homework that I may have missed or whatever, and just different opportunities that were given me because I figured out in that situation, being likable. And maybe that's just the catchphrase for respectable, whatever, all that. There was showing that I was interested in I really wanted to work. I couldn't just, you know, lean back and give up.

A lot of people would have, you know, when you get that notice, like half a semester, like, yo, you're not doing too high. They send that out. I mean, they don't say it that way. I think they say you're like in danger of feeling. But a lot of kids give up when they get that. But I was like, you know what? I'm going to do the work hard.

And it's going to and whatever, where the tips made far are going to fall. But I know that if they see me working, they will work them and they will help me. They will lend their time, you know, because they want to see you succeed. So the tons of, and that's just, you know, we haven't even touched. Much like, you know, how I grew up and where I grew up in a really rough area, a public housing project. And there, you know, if you are, if people like you, they tend not to harass you as much. And, you know, that doesn't mean being a weakling and being a pushover. It means that people genuinely like you.

So in that environment, what is being likable? Your jokes, you know, understanding sports. I didn't know sports. That didn't help. But I could make people laugh and I could keep to myself. I didn't be asked. And the part about controlling my emotions, that's key too, because when things happen, you can react one way or you can react the other. Some reactions have a much stronger counter reaction than others.

And whether you choose incorrectly or not is not the point. The point is you choose. You don't react, you know. And sometimes I chose incorrectly. and, you know, found myself fighting two or three people. So other times I chose correctly, and I was like, okay, you know, I left a situation without suffering, physical harm, having to physically defend myself.

But either way, I learned very early to think through these things, not just fly off and handle and be a hothead, you know. So, and maybe I have a tendency towards that, but now at this point, it's so ingrained to me to just relax and think through things before reacting to them that I think that continues to serve me well to his day. The person listening, Ed, who says, I agree. Being likable is super important.

I think I may be likable. I'm not exactly sure. I want to get better at this. Are there a few action steps or what are a few action steps people can take? It sounds funny you and asking this, but what are a few actions that you can take to be more likable? all right so so i want to give these steps and kind of a you can take this system and put it anywhere because you won't you know you won't always be able to tell jokes like i couldn't tell any jokes when i was you know a basic training for example uh things like that so so these general ideas hopefully will help

you know first you have to not care about being likeable you have to care about being uh effective being efficient being yourself living true to yourself because the funniest irony is that it's only when you stop trying to be likeable, that you actually become likeable. And I think a lot of people are too concerned with people trying to, with people liking them, then that they behave in a way that makes them unlikable. They're trying to curry favor. And you can't really do it that way. Instead, you just live and do what you like to do, do what's important to you. Do it to our highest. standard so people see you take yourself seriously and what that leads to at the very least is respect and the

respect doesn't always translate into being likable but it's a lot closer to it than being unlikable. So that's the first step. The second step is to treat everyone with respect and to all have impeccable manners. No situation is made worse by being a respectful and by having manners. And you can take somebody who was ready to really just rip your head off. And if you greet them calmly and you, sir, man, you know, you, you've already, you have completely changed a situation that was probably ready to go like straight Megatum. But you went, okay, I'm here to cool this off. Just go, okay. You know, so just let me know, what's the problem?

How can I help you, you know, sir, what is what's going on? You know, I'm trying to, a lot of times I'll call someone a friend. I'm like, I'm not your friend. I'm like, yeah, but just, just bear with me for me and keep going. And it's amazing. And when you, when you come out of situations with the odd, that it, a person is a person. And they deserve to be respected until they prove otherwise. And even beyond them, you can, you can do quite a lot with this in terms of making progress and your professional life or your social one or wherever.

If you want to be likable, those are the two things you got to do. You got to not care about being likeable. You have to care more about being respectable, liking the person that you see in the mirror, you know, and looking up to that person and behaving in that way. And you also have to treat the other people that you meet with respect and interact with them with basic manners. And you will be amazed at how many people suddenly like you. You may not find you, like, what I'm saying is not going make you like the life of the party. You know, it may or may not. Like, you're not going to suddenly find yourself getting invited to all the most happening shindigs in town. But what you will find is that people more people who are closer to what you want, what makes you feel comfortable,

you know, those are the people who are going to interact with. You'll find you're a tribe. I think a lot of people have an idea of what the tribes look like. And your tribe, you have no idea what the tribes are going to look like. Like I can tell you that right now. You don't know, until you're really comfortable with who you are and what you're doing. And you're like, wow, well, it turns out maybe I was a bit of a lone wolf. I only like like three people. But these three people, man, I really rock on them. I say, yo, I really enjoy it. You know, I got a buddy who's a huge extrovert, way more to me. And I'm not introverted, like, by far. But, but he is very comfortable in that scenario. He ended up, you know, as we grew up, that was

his thing, always interacting and I host one people. Now he's a bartender and he works a thing. and his two jobs, he's a bartender, and he does photo shoots for people at weddings, great life. Like, excellent for him. That would drive me mad, right? But I like him. He likes me and we have a lot of this,

a lot of the same friends. You know, you got to figure out with what your ideal life looks like. And from there, you know, you will behave in a way to manifest that, and that's going to bring around people. Assuming you're treating everyone with respect, that's going to bring around people.

that like you. I think that first part, Ed, is really we, people have a good sense for a fake and when they sense a phony or someone not being authentic to who they are or what they're really about,

that's a, that's a quick way to not be likable. As if people sense you're a fraud, you're not being true or genuine to who you actually are. You don't, you, I think that authenticity and vulnerability, are also are key to like just being yourself and not actually trying to be likable,

but just being real and being you. And like you said, you may not be liked by all, but you'll find your tribe. Absolutely. And that's the most, you know, but I've been with my,

my girlfriend now for like eight years, right? And one of the things that I, you said it was so much excitement. Oh, let's juice it up a little bit. Yeah. It's been great.

I mean, it's eight years. If it wasn't great, it wouldn't be the number eight, you know? There you go. There is a... There we go. But one of the things I'm always telling her is that I really like that I get to be myself around you. And what I mean by that is, like, I could not be happy. And it's certainly not happy enough to sustain a relationship for almost a decade.

if I was someone else. Like if I had to do things that weren't interesting to me or that I was not even remotely having fun with or behave in a way or go see people do things. Like, no, I get to be myself. And you value that, like the person I am. You know, like people have to become really comfortable with the idea that they are not forever.

everyone. Like, you're not everyone's cup of tea. And you really weren't ever designed. Like, like, like, and no one is, you know. What? I mean, the best presidents in history who lead in the Asian having an approval rating of like 60 maybe. And that's hot, man, like 60%. So it's not, you're not supposed to be for everyone. But your goal, I think, I think it's a very worthwhile goal in life to figure out who you are and then surround your, for people who bring out the best in you and do not demand you to be something else or feel comfortable if you're something else, you know, or feel uncomfortable if you're something else I was that to say. Yeah, I like the phrase if you relates to that. If you try to get everyone

to like you, then nobody will love you. And I think that plays there too when it comes to if you're being real and genuine and authentic, then you can build some loving relationships. And I say love kind of like on a broader terms and broader beyond just a relationship like with a spouse or a girlfriend. Okay, Ed, I do want to get to some of the other parts of your life. Second, no one cares what happened to you or what you've been through. No one is coming to save you.

Share more how, why this has become. part of your life and part of your philosophy and how it's impacted you. So I think about a lot of the stuff that I endure growing up, right? And you're, I'm born into the typical, you know, at-risk youth, you know, single mom, public housing, poor, all that, that stuff, you know, abuse. It is all there, right? but something I realized when I stopped drinking is that or you know well throughout my drinking and then ultimately to my stop the whole journey is that it's not

society is not going to to take pity on you if your problems cause problems for someone else and the example I always give is is let's let's pretend that I kept drinking and I've been and I kid somebody like I killed somebody in an accident

well they're not going to be in the and in the courtroom going well you know this guy he didn't grow up with a solid family unit and was just physically abused growing up like none of this is going to matter right they're just going to they're going to just

lock me up okay and that's a really powerful lesson. And it's one of those lessons that unfortunately a lot of people don't even, if they ever learn it, it's too late. But most times they don't ever learn it. They either just continue to get lucky and dodged severe consequences or the consequences, or are they endure the consequences of those actions. But what I learned is really that people are not, and some people care, You know, you pay those professionals to care and talk to you about it. But it's really up to you to work through your own issues because if your issues cause you a problem in society, society is not going to go, well, you had this issue.

We get it, right? It's like something that I learned that a lot of people who abuse children, who sexually abused children, a lot of them are victims of abuse themselves. and the court doesn't go, that happened to you. So exercise some leniency. Like, no, it's your job. It's unfortunate that happened to you, but it's your job to take your issues and prevent them from being passed on.

It's really unfortunate that we have to deal with some, all types of tragedy grown up. But it, um, it, It's our responsibility. I really believe it. It's our responsibility to not pass that tragedy on. You know, we don't, you, you, you want to, you want to do the best you can to leave the world a better place than how you found it.

And a lot of that starts with internal work. Dealing with the tragedy and the trauma you've been through so you don't take it out on somebody some way and bring a lot of problems on. And really, you know, I realize a lot of my. drinking was driven by this desire to kind of feel to fit in because I never felt like I belonged to anywhere growing up, at least not my former viewers for sure. And so I had to deal with that because if, because any, all problems and stuff that happened, I know one goes, ah, you know, he just had a rough childhood. They don't care, right? But they, they care about us keeping themselves safe, making their time of people enjoyable. And if I'm, and if I'm, and if I'm mess.

that up if I'm if I'm my behavior driven by a habit that I developed to cope with other issues yeah they're not worried about that I'm just curious how this is this is really impressive stuff right now because you have every your life experience pretty much is given you the right to um I mean you've been victimized to be literally you've been a victim of of some really bad things that you could say, look, man, like pointing to me, you haven't had to deal with any of that stuff. So you don't understand what it's like. This is why I've messed up or I made poor decisions or I do this. And instead, you're saying, no, I'm not going to do that. And other people shouldn't do that. Instead, they should look internal, work on themselves in order to make sure this doesn't happen

to anybody else, kids or other people around me. How have you, how have you, how have you, built this perspective over the years? I hate the answer. Oh, it was just me. Like, no, because that's not true. The reality, I guess, I recognize that it's selfish mostly. I recognize that to get things out of life, I have to do certain things.

And I want those things out of life, right? So then we start looking at a system. To get what things? You mean like to get money, to get fame, to get? Uh, not. Well, I mean, I like where I live, right? Uh, that costs money. Uh, I like being able to go get food.

I like having good people around me. I understand like all these things I like. I like having good friends. Mm-hmm. I like being healthy, okay, you know. So, so I'm just just listening things. I don't really care about. frame, that just seems to be like an odd byproduct of doing interesting, well, used to be

interesting things, but that's neither here nor there. So understanding that I want all of these things, I got to figure out how to get them. And when you, when you start studying how to become successful, you realize that it's about delivering value. And that's like the top level basic idea, deliver value. But then you dive into it. And you realize part of delivering value is also not subtracting it and value subtracting behaviors are destructive. So you start thinking about all the ways that you are destructive to people and things around you. And then how to minimize it, how to get rid of it. And so I go, okay, this attitude, I can look at this person and that is not a good attitude

because I can see how it makes me feel, how makes everyone else around them feel, the opportunities that cuts off in them. Let me make sure I don't ever behave. that way, right? And so I start, and then now from there, now I'm digging in, I'm doing the work of myself because I want more out of life, right? What that does is, is it evolves into a system for living that I think, the original goal was not, let me deal with my trauma. That was never, I mean, I wish it was. That'd be cool to say, right? No, the original goal was let me figure out how to advanced my life. And then is I realized, okay, you got this problem here, you got that problem

there. But why do you have that problem now? Now, maybe that is like, you know, trying to dig deeper into myself. But the asking the question like, what's wrong? Look, anyone can sit and I got a copy of thinking grow rich on my bookcase. And in thinking grow rich, he talks about how you treat other people. Now, that's a good start. But if you want to go and you want to execute on that idea, so you can, you know, can think and grow rich, you have to start thinking about this kind of stuff. And then it leads you to, you know, you want to be a complete person. You want to leave the world better. At least that's what it is for me. I mean, one of the big things I talk about is forgiveness. Forgiveness is such a powerful idea to me. And I was exposed to that idea when I was 23, like the true idea of forgiveness. And I remember that exact age because, that's when I stumbled upon a course in miracles, a whole God about teaching how to forgive other people. And it stood at forgiveness. And then the idea just made sense to me. Okay, let's not try to balance the emotional books. You know, you made me feel this way. I'm going to try and

make you feel that way so we're going to. Instead, it's like, I'm going to let this go because I don't want to feel that poison. You know, what would they say about? about forgiveness or what did they say about holding a grudge that holding grudge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. That always stuck me in is very powerful. And when you get that idea, you go, okay, well, I'm not interested in Don. And on top of that, I don't want to make anyone else sick. Let me, let me keep my time and my space right. And if you do that, a lot of the times, what happens is you attract more opportunities and you get a better life. And And I think I'm a really good example of that.

I think I try to study people who do that. One thing I learned early and just continues to be reinforced is the value of treating people well. It's really amazing. And I wish people got this. If you're really selfish, like you're trying to take care of yourself and set yourself for the best possible outcome. that's being really selfish. If you do that in accordance with what we'll call the laws, like the laws of society and the laws of like, you know,

the universe, whatever you think those are, probably something close to religion, if you're selfish within the confines of that law, what we should create is a really generous and beautiful world because everyone's going to be trying to do its best for themselves and they'll realize that the best way to accomplish this goal is to get other people on your side to make them want to look at you favorably and want to help you out. So back to the original question, you know, how did I build this framework? It all started with

that idea. How can I make my life great? How can I make my time on this planet worthwhile? How can I have the best experience ever? And a lot of it is dealing with your issues. If you deal with your issues, you set yourself up to get more because you'll stop stepping on your foot. So when you don't, when you haven't dealt with your issues, it's like, trying to push the gas pedal with your foot on the brake. Okay? Every issue you do it is taking your foot off to break a little more and you move a little further and it gets a little easier to push and push and push to eventually, you've got

your foot off to the car is moving. You're making real progress and you don't really want to go back to wasting gas and burnouts and shreds and things like that. I think we all right now can picture these people in our lives who, there are a couple of things. One, they're more interesting each time we see them. Two, they always seem to bring some sort of unique value to our lives, whether it's at work or at home or socially. And those people are building a better life for themselves by focusing on being more interesting, being a value-added person to whatever group they find themselves in.

And so like you're saying in a way, you're going to get more of what you want by trying really hard to add value to the lives of other people. Absolutely. Like, bingo, you know, when I ask people who want to learn like how I make any money online, I always ask them, how is money made? That is the question that will let me know, okay, or can you even do this? And then what do we got to undo?

Right? I want to know how is money made. And the people who get it right or at least show some promise are the ones who understand that it is made when you give people something they want. Right? They don't care. Like, no one cares what you want.

Look, man, I love, I love playing chess. and even popcorn. Let me figure out how to monetize that and we're on our way, right? But in the meantime, what are other skills do I have that people do care about? Well, people do care about writing. They want to be able to write well because people recognize the monetary value in that. More importantly, perhaps they recognize that being able to write copy or grow a social media following. That's really important. So those are the skills I can put forth in the world and get some money back. Now, this question and conversation isn't about money. but we're using this to make a point that when you give value, people give you something you value in return to experience that value. When you're an interesting person, when you have lessons, when you have insight, when you are in an ear, when you make people feel good to be around you, they're going to want to be around you. They're going to want to introduce you to their friends. They're going to want to help you build a life. And it's a really cool experience to think about, because have you ever just sat there and thought,

man, I have this opportunity because of this person where I met because of that person. And I only met that person because I took some time to answer a question on the internet. Well, like so much in my life is that kind of outcome. Did someone send me a message? I'm like, hey, man, thank you for the message.

I do this. Like, whoa, you respond. I'm like, man, well, you message. me what you expect. And then from there, you know, who knows where it goes, but the idea is to get a much better life, to have a much more enjoyable time on this planet,

you should really help other people. And the way that you are best at helping them, you know, not everyone's going to have the same skills and knowledge, but someone, we all know something that other people want to learn and we all are, have certain traits that other people are interested

in. Like, you know, I remember when I used to go to anime conventions, man. Look, they ain't never going to see me at an anime convention ever again, right? And I'll probably never have a video game system. It's not that those things are good or bad. I'm just not interested in them anymore, you know? But if I was, there's a whole set of people. And if I can go and talk about the anime, you know, they're like, oh, wow, someone to bond with, it's great.

Let's talk and be friends. And you treat them well and with respect. And all of a sudden, you're likable. It's very simple. It's good stuff. The third one here. This one's really important because I'm sure you're getting a ton of questions. One of the frequent questions I get is about building something, building a podcast,

building a business, writing a book. These are things that take time. And as you wrote it, the most powerful belief you can have is that given enough time, you can learn anything. Rome wasn't built in a day, but Hiroshima was wiped out in seconds. And what this is is the great, exceptional thing. take a long time to happen. And conversely, 9-11 happened in a second, in an instant.

That plane hit the building. The next plane hit the building. And boom, we've got terrible things. Like you said, Hiroshima, the bad things happen quickly. The great things take a long time. And this is one of your kind of walls or parts of life. Yeah. I love for you to expand on that and how that applies to both you.

as well as people who could implement it into their life. Yeah, so you got to remember that every good thing in life is really a function of time, you know. It's the nature of creation and destruction. So whenever you create something, what you're doing is you take in a bunch of disparate things with their own trajectory and agenda, and you are moving them into alignment and coordination. And this is not easy. It takes energy. It takes time.

It takes patience. You'll get one in line and the other one will be running away. You know, if someone wants to describe this process, it's like trying to herd cats. And if you can hurt, if you ever try to get a bunch of cats to be in one place and they didn't want to be there,

you know what I'm talking about, right? They will fight, resist, run, every moment you get, every chance you get. But each time, you know, you get a little closer. You learn something like, okay, maybe if I leave some catnip here, those ones will stay. But that one done like catnip. In fact, he hates catnips.

So I got to figure out the proper distance for the catnip and tuna because that's what he likes. And eventually you do get them all in one place. It just takes time. And it takes time because all of these parts, some are slower than others. Some are going in a different direction. Some are so fast. Some have a lot that they need to learn to catch up. It's just different.

This analogy applies to the parts of any worthwhile skill. I think about this. When I wrote that, I was thinking about my time with physics. And I was originally in high school. It was a terrible math student, not even remotely good. I think the best grade I got was a B in, like, ninth grade, geometry, but everything after that was like a C and a D. I actually have an article on my website where I went and got my high school transcript

so I can make a point about this, that I was not a naturally gifted math student. I went on as an adult, though, to get a degree in physics, which automatically by default with how much math there is gives you a mathematics minor. I could go in one year have a degree in math as well. Okay, how did that happen? Well, at one point in my life and I was poor at math, I had this fixed mindset. I thought I either had it or I didn't. Boom, whatever, right? I started boxing, box for 12 years. And over the course of that time, I watched myself get better. And boxing is cool because that there's, and it's like any sport, really. It's just boxing is the one I went through, is that you get to see your weaknesses and you get a very quick feedback mechanism in the form. I'm getting hit or tired or whatever, right? And you get better and better, but it doesn't all come up once. It's not overnight.

You're a finished product. One day, you learn how to throw the jab from any position. And that's important because you're never going to have an ideal position in boxing. You're always going to be slightly outbalanced, slightly out of step, slightly misplaced. And then another day, you know, you learn how to slip correctly. And Bob and weave and be in position to throw a right hand. are little things. These are the cats, right? They're all going in a different direction, but you're pulling it together, slowly well, shirley. It just takes time and it takes energy.

You stick with it. And then before you know it, all of a sudden, your footworks together. You can move in and out of range and position. You can let punches off. You're really an effective fighter. You're not good yet, but you're effective. And that's a lot better than being ineffective. Now you've made some strides. Now what do they say about being a black belt, right? And in a martial arts. Now you know just enough to be dangerous. You don't really know enough to be good, just dangerous.

But that's where you get. And it just keeps coming along, coming along. I took that same idea and I applied it to physics. When I decided I was going to go back to school for that. And I went all the way back to the beginning, learn, relearned my algebra, relearned geometry, and trigonometry. and I had to figure out

to make it all work together and I call these a framework. Little while little, but I knew. I said, wow, if I did this for boxing, I can do this for math. And I really believed that.

And I was never like, I got to do it by this day or that day. I mean, I had some goals. Sure, I would like to have done it. But at the end, I just figured as long as I practiced correctly,

and got the right teachers and everything, and was really committed to learning and was not going to accept not and I wasn't going to accept anything less than proficiency. Are those those things together over time? Eventually everything just came together and it continues to do that for everything in my life. You know, you can look at my website, for example, that's an eight-year work of art. And it's just, I mean, white people understand what I'm saying here, but it's just over 40. now for domain ranking.

So it's after eight years of a like work. That's like, they're like, okay, what does that mean? Well, now my website is just good enough to not be bad. Like, like, now enough people go to it where the search algorithm is like, this guy might know what he's talking about. Let's see how people respond. But that's a lot of time. That's learning how to write.

That's learning how to link. That's being interesting. That's picking topics. And, you know, there are. articles on that site. Not everyone, but almost everyone, a lot of them are not the original version because I learned so much about writing from the inception of the blog to now that I had to go back and fix that stuff. It was terrible. It couldn't stay. It either had to go or I had to go back and edit it. But that's only possible because I just, I said, okay, I'm going to build a blog

a website. I'm going to do it because I want to write. I like it. That's my gift to the world. That's one of my gifts to the world. And so now I owe it to myself to get incrementally better. Yeah. That, I think back to Alison Levine when she described what it was like climbing Mount Everest. And she said, I couldn't look at the top. I looked at the three feet in front of me. And then the three feet in front of me.

And then the three feet in front of me. And then the three feet in front of me. And that was the goal was to continue getting three feet in front of me. And then before you know, but she turned around and she's on the top of Mount Everest. She summeded the thing. And I think that's, that's, that's you. That's what I think is a commonality among people who have sustained excellence is their

willingness and ability to keep going, not like this, but like this. You know what I'm saying? This gradual incline because nobody does this. That's not realistic. If they do, they may go like this. They may go straight down or straight up, straight down, as opposed to just getting incrementally better, putting in the work, day. after day after day. This is Steve Martin going to the comedy clubs with one person in it watching him while he works on his 20 minutes set.

And 10 years later, he's selling out arenas. Right. Others view him as an overnight success. Nah, not true. Not true. Not enough. Not rotting along, building his set until he gets good enough and good enough and just getting a little bit better. I feel like that's that's a story of what you've you've been able to do and where you're continuing to do. Yeah, because I know that stuff, like, if you want to like talk, oh, you know, does this guy have it figured out? I don't have everything figured out. I don't have most things figured out. I don't think anyone does. There's too much to know.

But one thing anyone with any shred of success has figured out is that it is just small gains. and it's small gains not necessarily. We all have a goal, right? But that goal kind of takes a back seat when you and you fall in love with the process and system you set up and you're just looking forward to just being a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better. And you're doing it with faith almost. In fact, not almost. I think we move by faith because there is no guarantee, you know,

you take the Steve Martin example, there's no guarantee he ever gets to the point where he, you know, is selling out arenas. Instead, he's just like, if I just get better, and I believe this, if you just make a movement with intention in the direction of your goal, then you will cause a bunch of other things to happen in support of that goal that you did not necessarily plan or predict what happened, but they're all just positive externalities of the actions you took, the deliberate actions you took towards getting better. I mean, here's a perfect example. I always say my boxing career is a lot of luck, but is it really a lot of luck?

Because, you know, if I wasn't working, the opportunity that wouldn't be able to take advantage of them. Well, when I was an amateur, I got the ability very rare. I had a sponsor in Los Angeles. They paid for my apartment. They gave me a monthly salary. They paid for my food. How did I get that opportunity?

Because originally they were taking these guys who were former division one athletes and trying to convert them in the boxers. I am not a former division one athlete. In fact, when you look at the, there are the website they had out where they were looking at the criteria. They wanted guys that were at least six three. I'm six one on my tippy toes, man. I'm like, like there. They wanted guys who were like between a certain age range and pretty strapped out the age range. And they wanted guys who had a former division one athletic background with their basketball,

football, baseball, whatever. Had none of these things. I got this opportunity because I made it to the national tournament by winning the state tournament. And at the national tournament, I beat their guy. And, you know, but at the national tournament, that's a random draw. I don't have any control over that. All I had control over was putting the time in training, training, training, getting a little better, get a little better. And as a result, I kept beating people until that opportunity presented itself to me.

There's one more part, Ed, I want to cover before we close. A limitation is only as powerful as the energy you give to it. Your dreams also follow this same law. you share more oh for sure you know it's really amazing when you when you have a i always say right uh your only is is successful you'll only be as successful as your worst habit and if you don't if you don't get those things to control you they're going to control you and that's just the truth of it but here's a funny thing and until you control something it's really amazing how much energy you give it. I think about, I think about tomorrow my time with alcohol and when I realized it was

getting bad. And I was like, all right. So what are the signs that's getting bad, right? Well, I am changing my daily schedule of training to go drink. Okay. That's a pretty big deal because there's something I put a lot of energy and time into. And now what I'm doing is I am saying, okay, this thing is more important. And I may not have recognized it as a limitation at that moment, but it was. It was a big limitation. It was a big problem.

And until I recognized what it was, I couldn't even deal with it. I was like, oh, man, this is what I'm supposed to do. Let's go party and drink, right? No, no, no. It's a limitation at that point. It's a problem. And that, you know, I put that there on my site as in a bit of poetic language, it just sounds better that way.

But if I was to give a more precise rewording of it, I would say you have to recognize the problem first. Once you recognize the limitation or recognize the problem, then you can effectively deal with it. And then you can take that same energy and you can put it towards your goal because I tell you what, once I got the drinking under control and I stopped. Now I had not, I mean, then I turn into a guy.

A lot of people don't realize this when they look at my bio. I don't even know if you did. All the things that all have drawn attention to me, the military, the boxing, physics, the writing, if you look at my life at age 27, none of that's there. I don't have a credit in school. I ain't enlisted. I didn't even turn pro until 2013. I mean, I was amateur before then. But then what happens? I had a wake-up moment, and I went, and I said, I got to make up a lost time. So I'm doing all of this. And the only reason I can do all of this at the same time from the period of 2013, like 2017,

is because I got my biggest limitation under control. I had the energy I was given that. I was feeding that. I took on how I was feeding in every other direction. And now, or not every other direction, I was feeding it towards other things that put me into that I gave myself more energy to hurt those cats. Was there a rock bottom? Why did you do that?

Why didn't you? What made you change course? You know, man, when I, when I talk about this, sometimes it sounds like, um, like there was some kind of like random divine intervention. But, but no, what happened is, so I first don't listed, right? Uh, I was still, I was not.

sober when I enlisted. And what I mean about is I didn't lie, I didn't go down to the station, the MEP station now I was drinking and I was like, Tommy, I was like, no, I mean,

what I mean is I was still in the active process of drinking and everything. I was clear out, I believe, though. And what happened is you go through basic, that's 10 weeks without booze, then you go to AIT, that's under the 22 weeks without booze.

I managed to sneak out one time and get a drink. I came back. Plans on point. I'm like, okay, because I do this to get money for school and advance my life and everything. But I think I can still carry on the way I carried on before I went out, tried to do it one time, get super drunk, don't remember much about the night. And then I woke up and I said, okay, I just was looking at it.

And you ever see The Matrix? And the Matrix when they're taking Neo to be Morpheus, and they suck that bug out of his stomach. And he's like, oh, snap, what is that? That's crazy. I got to bounce. And Trinity stops him. And she's like, you don't want to go down that road, Neil. You know where it ends. You know, you've been there. You know where it ends. And you don't want to be there. I had that crystal clear moment. The only difference is very similar. I said, I'm going to be 33 one day. That's just the number I chose. I was 28 at the time. I said, I'm going to be 33 one day. Am I going to have more options in my life? I'm not going to have fewer. I want to have more. What is the big problem? The big problem is the booze. Let's get that.

And here's how crazy it is, right? It's funny looking back at it now because now I'm coming out. It'll be seven years this December. I remember I said to myself because it was still crazy. It was terrifying, thinking about giving it up. I said, I'm going to do this until I graduate or win a title or write a book. And then I'll let myself have some wine first. I was tricking myself, I guess.

But now I'm like, man, no interest whatsoever. And that was, that all started, though, in terms of like the rock bottom, it was, fortunately, I didn't have to hit a rock bottle. Because a lot of times what happens is when you hit rock bottom, you shatter, or you shatter people around you. That's the example I gave. Like, if I had, if I had hit somebody while I was drinking, drop. people would not be interested in helping me or forgiving me.

I've crossed over. That's a game over. But because I stopped it before them, they were like, okay. And then there's a lesson that I got to figure out how to integrate that. I think that's a really powerful one. If you get in front of your problems before the law or like other people do, people will forgive you.

They'll work with you. But if you cause a problem, one is there and you didn't, you didn't do it if they don't care, they'll throw you to the dogs. And they'll be happy to watch you suffer and burn. But when you get under control, they're a lot more leaning.

They're a lot friendly. People, my experience with that has really confirmed that getting a problem under control is 10x better than having to be brought under control for you. Man, Ed, you strike me as someone who has this amazing awareness and no, I don't know how to properly say this, but no like projection of insecurity. I've met a lot of people who they still are wildly successful by their own definitions of it, but you still sense this projection of being

insecure and having to make up for that, those insecurities in other ways, whether they have to blow it on stupid cars or whatever maybe like you know the things i sense from you you have this like real like comfort in your own skin of i know who i am i know the value i can bring i'm not trying to impress you we're simply having a conversation telling you what i think and that's that and i just find that to be an extremely likable skill to bring a full circle as we close i like to close the loop. I just, I really do, I mean it though. I'm not doing that just for the sake of a show. I mean that. And I think that is a, that's, that's inspiring for me. And I would imagine inspiring for others to hear like, like, how can I work enough on myself to really get to the point to where it's like I, I say what I think, but there's obviously a lot of thought behind it. And that's what I think is respectable and likable. And so I just want to say, thank you. Thank you for for doing that and for bringing that to to me into this show. No problem. You know, the secret is you just got to get your ego drag the mud a lot. Yeah. I mean, I have been, I mean, now I'm 35, sorry, right? But 25-year-old me is not nearly, it's funny.

25-year-old me has accomplished way less and has a much more inflated ego. Weird how it works. But as you go through life and you have your ups and your downs, I think what happens, what should happen anyhow, is that you realize that in the quest to be better, it's only a measurement of achievement when you talk about being better than someone. In terms of, you know, what you bring to the table as a human who can contribute to someone else's life,

even in just a simple conversation or showing interest in their background and personality, their culture, whatever. Everyone has the ability to do that. And I think everyone does at some point. And so you start to find commonalities. And I'm a big fan of finding commonalities in people rather than differences. And then a lot of that comes from my training with forgiveness because one of the first steps to forgiveness is to realize, and this is a hard thing for a lot of people to do,

but it's vital, it's to realize that if you were in that person's shoes, you would have done the exact same thing. And like the exact position with the same weights on rewards and penalties and what they know and what they're capable of, you would have taken the same action. And when you can make that step logically,

and to me it's not a difficult step, then you start living in a way where you're focused on bridging, gaps instead of digging them deeper or expanding them. Right. Wow. Thank you, Ed, again, for being here. Where would you send my listeners, viewers to learn more about you online? Oh, you know, fortunately, or unfortunately for anybody born with my name later who wants to do something online, they are not going to be able to. I'm Ed Latimore everywhere. I'm at Latimore.com. That's my website. I'm at Latimore on Twitter, where I'm very active. I'm at Latimore. And,

Instagram more. I'm fairly active. I mean, Instagram verified me, Twitter didn't. So right now we're kind of there. And I'm Ed Latimer on Facebook as well. I'm just at Latimer. We were type it in the Google to find me. Awesome. Awesome.

Well, thanks again, man, for being here. And I love to, I'm glad we got connected and got hooked up. I love to continue our dialogue as we both progressed, man. Absolutely, man. Thank you again for having me. All right. Thanks, Ed. All right.

To finish this one off, I'm going to answer another question. This one comes from Eric Marlowe. He replied to one of my Mindful Monday emails with this question. He says, I know you are truly blessed to win the parent lottery. I say that with a question of, how did your parents know that everything they were teaching you would set you on a path to be the best you could be? I'm sure it's something passed down. How do you pass it on to your kids? Eric, one of the cool things that I found this year is a gift, and it's at storyworth.com.

And essentially what story worth is is one day a week. Every Monday they send a question to a person, and I got this gift for my dad, and I get to pick the questions. He answers them, and at the end of a year, so 52 of them, at the end of that, they put them together in a book with pictures, and it's really cool. And my dad has been doing this now for about 20 weeks. His answers are literally one of the highlights of my weeks. And one of the questions that I posed to him was, what are the keys to raising strong, resilient, and tough kids? And I will give you his answer to this question because I think it answers your question. And I'm certainly trying to do the same.

Here we go. If you are seeking kids that are strong, resilient, and tough, you are essentially saying that you want your children to grow up to be independent and self-determining rather than dependent and needing others all the time. We all should seek the help of others, but we do not want to constantly require the help of others to exist. So how do we get this outcome? Parents need to walk the line between helping and doing the work. Let kids have their own experiences that are a result of the kid's own efforts, not the result of total parent intervention. Let me explain this under the example of your child playing Little League Baseball.

When it's time for a Little League baseball, let the kid be on whatever team picks him. Don't try to game the system. Let the kid experience all the positions available and gravitate to the ones that they enjoy most. and are good at. Don't insist on your kid pitching and playing shortstop to the coach. Show up for the games and cheer for your son as well as all the others. Don't be just hyper-focused on every at-bat of your child and giving constant feedback between innings. Don't try to position your child to get a scholarship or to go pro. Life doesn't work that way for the most part. Talent plus effort plus meeting opportunities when

they occur will determine outcomes, not parental intervention, aka hovering. It is our job as parents to assure that our kids know that we expect them to participate in life in the interest of discovering their skills and their passions. Once a child has the self-fulfillment of finding something they enjoy and they are good at, then our job as parents is much simpler. passion and fun drive effort. Help them find their passion, then get out of their way, though we should always offer support at the kids' request.

To be strong and resilient, I believe you need to have the comfort and confidence of knowing you are loved. It is our job as parents, and I would say the extended family and friends to demonstrate this love through our behavior and our words. To be tough, I believe it is a requirement. that one experience adversity and sacrifice, sports, musicianship, academic study, and work experiences will provide adversity through unexpected difficulties that inevitably come up. Sacrifice, typically in the form of study and physical practice of the craft, will be required to achieve skill and ultimately mastery of a craft, be it athletics, academics, music, or a job. boiling it all down as a parent requires us to understand that our job is to introduce our children

to experiences, assuring they have proper training and mentoring along the way, then importantly, get out of their way and let them go through succeeding and failing so that they may develop those all important layers of strength and toughness that will serve them so well the rest of their lives. Eric, I don't think I could say it any better that comes directly from my dad when I asked him the question, what are the keys to raising strong, resilient, tough kids? Thanks for the question and thank you, the loyal listener of the Learning Leaders Show, for continuing to spread the word one person at a time. Hey, you should check out this episode of the Learning Leader Show. I think it could help you. Because you continue to do that, you give me the

opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. If you want me to answer one of your questions, feel free to send it my way. Ryan at learningleader.com. Thanks so much. Talk with you soon. Can't wait.