The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 413: Brook Cupps - Living Your Values: Tough, Passionate, Unified, & Thankful

Starting point is 00:00:00 My purpose is to help these guys to think of excellence over success. That's what I look at every time when I'm trying to help our players move forward in life. Because that's really what it is. I know it's basketball. I know that's our platform. That's what we're doing. But it's really, can we use basketball and the things that we teach in our program to move them forward? And part of that is helping them understand the contributions that they make to the group.

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Starting point is 00:01:16 And our listeners will receive a special extended 28-day free trial. Go to sweetprocess.com slash learning leader to sign. up now. No credit card required. Sweetprocess.com slash learning leader. Welcome to the learning leader show presented by Rixie and Meyer. I am your host Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text learners to 4-4-222 to become part of Mindful Monday. You along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world will receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning 9 o'clock with the most impactful articles, books, podcasts, videos, and thoughts of mind to help you become a better leader.

Starting point is 00:02:20 You'll also receive more details about how my book, Welcome to Management, will help you become a more effective leader. Text, learners to 4-4-222. Now on to tonight's featured leader, a special one for me. My friend Brooke Cups, he teaches leadership classes and is the head basketball coach for the boys team at Centerville High School. Just recently, Brooke won and his team, the first state championship in school history. He's also a member of one of my leadership service. and is a great friend. A few of the topics we discuss what it means to actually live your values.

Starting point is 00:03:10 Brooke shares how he does it as well as how you can do it too. And then a unique and different goal setting process and why it works and why you should potentially change how you do it. And then creating your personal mantra. This is one of my favorite things about Brooke is he has a unique personal mantra, which we get into, and he also will share how you can do the same. And then a special guest midway through this conversation, Brooke's son Gabe popped on the Zoom and shared what it was like playing for his dad and winning a state title together. Gabe is a sophomore point guard, was the leading score in the state championship game,

Starting point is 00:04:01 and LeBron James, who knows Gabe well because Gabe played on Brony James, that's LeBron's son, AAU team for four years, a team that Brooke also coached. And LeBron has said that Gabe Cups, this is a quote, is the best shooter in the 2023 class. So Gabe popped on. We had a fun talk. And then Brooke and I finished up together. Ladies and gentlemen, you're really going to enjoy this one. It's Brooke Cups. All right, man. It's good to see you again.

Starting point is 00:04:33 I feel like we've had so many of these talks in private. It's finally time for us to get one out there in public so other people can listen to the things that we talk about. So it's good to have you, man. That sounds good. Thanks for having me. I want to take it back. So you sent me a cold email in September of 2017. So we're almost three and a half, four years.

Starting point is 00:04:55 go and asked me to come speak to your class. And I think a leadership group that you run at Centerville High School, I was honored to do it, especially because your email was really well written. I think I read my response to you this morning as I was preparing. And it said, wow, thanks for the thoughtful note. So you could probably teach a lesson on sending those cold notes because I had never heard of you prior to that time, which is surprising considering that you're at Centerville and you've been there a bit.

Starting point is 00:05:19 But I didn't know much about the basketball program, certainly a lot more now. But after I spoke there, then I asked you to come speak to a workshop that I hosted. And one of the first things that popped up on the screen when you spoke was a picture of three things. And at the top of it, it said your mantras, your personal mantras. And so I'm going to ask you to walk us through them with the pictures. Just so for the visual learners, there's a picture of a wolf. There was a picture of an axe chopping wood. And there is a picture of a gladdened.

Starting point is 00:05:54 in the arena, you know, getting ready to do battle. And so your personal mantras or a wolf chopping wood in a gladiator and arena, can you walk, walk me through the thought you put behind your personal mantra? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I just, I got to those. It took a lot of reflection, a lot of, you know, kind of digging to kind of surface those things that were really meaningful to me. And, you know, the wolf for me, really really goes to the just speaks to the team aspect of who I, who I think I am and who when I'm at my best, I figured out a long time ago, I'm not very good by myself.

Starting point is 00:06:35 And I'm way, way better when people are around me, they make me better. I think I make them better. And that's where I like to operate. And so I've kind of just always been on a team. I've always been around teams. And so that's, that's the wolf, kind of that wolf, kind of that wolf. mindset, you know, the strength of pack is the wolf, the strength of the wolf is the pack. But it goes a little bit more than that because, I mean, there's a lot of things that,

Starting point is 00:07:02 you know, a lot of animals, a lot of things that work in packs and groups. And I guess, you know, the wolf to me, I think I said this when I spoke, like a wolf is just a little more badass than a, to me, than a lion or a tiger, just because, I mean, you don't see a wolf in a circus for one. Like, they're, they're hard to tame. They're doing their thing. And like, they're just like they're doing what they do and um but they're not as and they're not as celebrated maybe as the tiger and as the lion and i like that like i i just i like that kind of you know behind the and just kind of do your work do your thing kind of behind everybody else so that's where the wolf comes from i mean like there's a you know it's kind of deep with a lot of it i think it some people it's

Starting point is 00:07:47 a stretch but it all connects for me makes sense to me and i i i know i can i can i can connect with that, that picture and that visual. I remember that spoke to me because it's obvious that you put thought into it. I really value thoughtful people. And when I asked you to speak, I mean, one of my kind of conditions, and when I asked someone to speak at one of my events is, I'm not going to tell them what to say. I wanted Brooke Cups. And I wanted you to say what you wanted to say. And so when you came in, I remember taking notes. And I don't know if a lot of people knew what to expect, because you sat through the entire workshop and you were, spoke towards the end of it. And I think you, you spoke up a few times. But for the most part,

Starting point is 00:08:27 I noticed you just being a writer. Like you were constantly taking notes from all the other speakers and all the other events. But you were more on the quiet side. And then when you got up on the stage of the workshop, it's like you flipped a switch. And one of the first things I see is a picture of a wolf. And you talking about like, you don't see a wolf in a circus. And I remember like, I like this guy. I think we're going to get along. That was a good moment for me. So wolf was first. Second, though, is chopping wood. What's that mean to you? So, I mean, I guess kind of along the lines of the wolf is like, I've never viewed myself as talented or really good at anything.

Starting point is 00:09:06 I've just, I've just always been able to find my way because I work. And I'm willing to, I'm just willing to do what needs to be done. And that's something I definitely learned from my parents growing up. I mean, I would say we were low middle class. maybe if we were middle class, you know, we were, we just, you just had to work, you know, my dad would get up and go to work every day, whether he was sick, whether he was healthy, whether he, you know, it didn't matter. If it was a weekday, he went to work. And I just, I feel like that mentality, like for us, we say chop, chop, you know, chopping woods.

Starting point is 00:09:44 It's a mantra in our basketball program too. But for me, it's just that connection back to work. Like when things are good, you work. When things are bad, you work. And it's just like trusting that process that that's going to eventually pay off. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. But that's still the right way to do things in my opinion. So just that faithfulness and loyalty and discipline to buckle down and do what you need to do. And then the gladiator in the arena.

Starting point is 00:10:15 What does that mean to you? So that one's probably the last one that I got. And I wasn't smart enough to figure it out early on because I let a lot of critics and a lot of people talking about this and that. You know, in coaching, you're pretty much wrong almost all the time. And especially basketball because everybody goes out and shoots in the driveway, right? So everybody knows a little bit about basketball. And I let that stuff bother me early on. And I think it affected my confidence and it affected how I interacted with kids.

Starting point is 00:10:49 And I just got to the point where, you know, that passage of man in the arena, it just, it reminds me of just like, I'll listen to the people that are in the fight. Like the most important opinion to me is my guys, is the people on my team and then those foxhole people that I know have my best interest. And I don't know, it's an empowering thing for me, like to be able to just release that. and, you know, not, not judge things on other people's opinions. So it's more of an empowering thing where I just, I feel like when I can keep that in mind, I'm much better at serving the people that I need to serve. So it stems from Roosevelt's man in the arena quotes. You expand on that a bit.

Starting point is 00:11:37 Yeah, I mean, Brune Brown writes a lot about it. And so that's really kind of the start of it. I mean, I obviously read the passage before. but I think it also like my purpose in in life that I've that I found is to inspire others to strive for excellence over success. And so excellence to me is the is the deal. It's not winning or losing. It's not how much money you make or what kind of car you drive.

Starting point is 00:12:06 Like none of that stuff really impacts me. I don't think about it very often. It's all about excellence. And I think that's what Roosevelt is talking about. about like being willing to take that risk that's the that's the most moving thing to me with coaching high school kids is when you can get a group of kids that are willing to go take risk that they don't know the outcome but yet they're willing to go for it like that that to me gets me going like that's that's the juice like when you see your son or you see tom house rise up from

Starting point is 00:12:39 24 feet when you're losing that in a regional final game. and pull the trigger or a guy who comes off the bench in the state championship game who doesn't get many shots and you call a play for him and it works out exactly as you call it and Gabe passes it to him and he drains a three that that you know was part of why you won a state title like that I feel like those big shots I mean I I was lucky to go to four of your final games as you won a state title this year and to see your your kids never flinch. I mean, never, not for a moment in these super high pressure pressure situations. I think of three different guys that all stepped up and took these huge shots. Unfortunately, they went in, right?

Starting point is 00:13:30 But like you were, I know the type of guy you are, like you'll live with the outcome, the fact that these guys have built up the guts and the confidence to pull the trigger in the most pressurized moments, man. Like, I, how does that feel as the coach of that team? team. Yeah, it's freaking awesome. Like that's the thing, man. Like you look around in society and so many people are afraid to take risk and afraid to go for it. And you're you're around a bunch of 15, 16, 17, 17, 18 year old kids that will that will roll the dice, man, they'll go for it. It's, it's awesome. I mean, it's why I love coaching. I think it's, it's one of the most impactful things. And they impact me just as much as, you know, any impact our coaches have on them. Like,

Starting point is 00:14:12 it's always so humbling when you get kids to do that and to believe in that and to be willing to fail like so many people are afraid to fail and you know to get kids to to think that way and just go for it I think it's like it's one of the how do you do that like how about for an adult and you know you and I have been fortunate now we're working together with with with leaders in actual the the business world and it's it's some of the the most fun and coolest work I get to do now is to partner up with you and and teach and I see the impact it's already having on people and it's something I know we're going to do in the future too. But I think it's it's easier not to go for. Like I think of this with public speaking personally. Like it is I can go up on stage

Starting point is 00:15:00 and give a pretty good speech and not go for it. Like I think it'd be pretty good. But I also really remember the moments where you like, you know what, man. I just got to go for this one. Like I'm to open big and I'm going to like go for the joke or I'm like if it bombs like who cares and I find that every time I do that there are more people on the side of the stage asking to talk than when I go up there and kind of play it safe so like how do you I feel that benefit how do you coach and teach other let's say adults in your mind take what you teach for some of your guys who are willing to pull the trigger and shoot the three into the adult professional world to say like just go for it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I think a lot of it is self-awareness because I think self-awareness

Starting point is 00:15:51 leads to self-confidence and that is what really allows you to take those risks. And when you know who you are and you're comfortable with who you are, I think you're, you're a lot more willing to kind of step out there and, you know, and be judged and be, you know, release yourself from that judgment of other people because, because, because, as you're comfortable with who you are. So I think a lot of it goes back to that, you know, the work that you have to do on yourself. And then, you know, I also don't think, I mean, I don't think you can be tough alone. I think you need, you need help. You need people that are going to empower you and pour into you and, you know, encourage you to do some of those things.

Starting point is 00:16:31 I know, I know there's a lot of times I've taken risk that I probably wouldn't have done I had somebody not not encourage me to do so. And so, you know, it's the wolf, man. Wolf's a lot tougher when he's when he's in the pack. Yeah. Well, speaking of those people. So, you know, yesterday we got to hang out for a while with a couple of your, your closest friends and guys that are becoming my friends,

Starting point is 00:16:56 Garron Stokes, who's a, he got a new job as a head football coach in Dublin, Kaufman, a big school here in Columbus, Ohio, and in, and Eli Liker, who, uh, uh, has become a friend of mine and, and plays a big role in this podcast now as, as, as,

Starting point is 00:17:10 as, everything together for me, um, and as your top assistant coach. Um, and just in passing, a few times the phrase, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:19 he's a fox old guy. Like it was said like not, there was not, it was never to find. It was just kind of like, oh, he's one of my foxhole guys. And that's not a phrase I hear often or hear around with other people,

Starting point is 00:17:29 but, but, but I noticed between the three of you guys, like that was just a normal thing to be said. Um, talk to me. about foxhole friends and foxhole guys and the people and what that means to you and and how you become like one of your foxhole guys. That's a good question. How you become one. I think it's just

Starting point is 00:17:52 it takes time obviously. I mean, it's trust is what you're talking about. Like, and it's not trust that I can, you know, it's just like that guy's completely open with me. Like he's not holding anything back. And more than anything at this point in my life, he'll tell me the truth. Like he's not going to he's not going to sugarcoat things. He understands that I want to get better and he's going to he's going to be critical sometimes. He's going to tell me what I don't want to hear. And, you know, he knows that like that I'll do the same for him. I just I don't know. Maybe there's people I'm sure that have a lot of friends and a lot of, you know, a lot of people that they consider close friends. That's just, just not, that's not how I really operate. I just, I mean, I'm pretty into the stuff that I'm doing. Like,

Starting point is 00:18:40 I, I, I coach basketball. I teach leadership and like, that's what I do. Outside of that, I've got, I've got some foxhole friends and that's about it. I've got some other people that are friends that I get along with and I'll spend time with. But like my foxhole friends are the guys that you're going to call it three o'clock in the morning three hours away to come pick you up and they're not going to give you some excuse. They're just going to get up with their clothes on and come get you. those guys like there's not that many of those guys and i i like the the part to me that's like the gold there is the people that are willing and able there are two separate things willing and able to tell you when you're you're wrong or when you're not doing something right and they do it

Starting point is 00:19:29 out of a place of love and you and i've talked a lot about this with with teammates and i think doing this in the professional world that one of the most selfless, selfless things you could do is have the guts to speak up to tell a friend or to tell a person when they're wrong or they're not doing it right. And one of the selfish things you can do is to keep quiet in that moment because it's harder to speak up. And I love for you to flesh that out more about having the guts and willingness and the care and the love to speak up with the intention to help somebody. Yeah, I mean, we talk about it all the time. For us, it falls under Unified and our core values.

Starting point is 00:20:12 We've got tough, passionate, unified and thankful. And Unified is like our behavior with that is speak and act with urgency. And this is what we're talking about because at first people would be like, why is that under Unify, speak and act with urgency? But this is exactly it. If you are choosing to remain quiet when someone is doing something that's detrimental to the team, that is selfish. Like, that's what it is. You're choosing your personal comfort over the good of the team. You know addressing it helps the team. So when you choose to

Starting point is 00:20:44 ignore it, that's selfish. It's the only way you can define it. And so we spend a ton of time talking about it and helping guys, because it's not natural for kids or for, I mean, adults, Lord, you don't get hardly anybody that'll do it. And so, teaching them and getting them comfortable to do that is a process. And it starts with trust. I mean, Ligioni's vulnerability-based trust is really where we start with it. Like, you have to know each other. And that's the, I mean, that's the good thing and the advantage like sports teams and school teams have. I mean, like the kids we had this year, they've been playing to basketball together for a long time. I mean, there's already stories and there's already

Starting point is 00:21:28 these relationships that they already know. They know a lot of stuff about each other, but there's things they don't know. And we spend a lot of time breaking down some of those walls and in just creating some vulnerability, getting guys to open up, guys crying, telling stories in the locker room. But that all goes to eventually being willing to hold that guy accountable.

Starting point is 00:21:51 That's really where you're trying to get to with it. So one of the most, I would say, impactful things, things you've done for me personally is help me define my core values and not only define them, but live them. I would say, like, if there was a title of this episode or the title of you, it would be creating and living your core values. And when it comes to living, living is a set of behaviors. It's a series of behaviors that continue to happen. And so I want to dive into your core values because I don't know if I've seen a team. I mean, I follow you guys. I'm a fan of the team, but I don't know if I've seen a team where the fans and the people on the outside

Starting point is 00:22:39 know your values is, I don't know if I've ever seen a team like that where everyone's like tough, passionate, unified, thankful. I know your values better than I know my own. I mean, tough, passionate, unified, thankful. I know what all the behaviors that are and I know it's a process to get here. But let's walk through tough, passion, unified, and thankful. And we hit on Unified there. So I want to go to toughness and specifically why that's a value for you. And then what I love the most are the critical behaviors of what it means to actually live out the value of being tough. Yeah. I mean, so those core values, like I believe strongly that the values of the team that you are running have to be your values. I think if there's somebody else's values, then I think the leader of

Starting point is 00:23:27 whatever team, your business world, coach of a basketball team. It doesn't matter. Like, you have to be a value driven person and they've got to be yours. Yes. And so if I'm working for somebody else, I would expect them like me to be coaching their values. That's, that's what you buy into their values. Yes. I got I have to accept those and value those or I shouldn't work there. I shouldn't work for that person. And so for me, like the values of our basketball program are my personal values. So tough, passion, unified, and thankful. And I think a lot of people, like you said, a lot of people identify values and their values. I've got, I might have 30 values, things that are important to me. But it's the clarity around minimizing that number to what is actually important

Starting point is 00:24:14 and that you can intentionally live. We watch a Patch Adams movie in class. And one of the things that he says towards the end of the movie is just how bad indifference is, indifference is actually the greatest disease of all and I I agree with him I just think like stand for something right like believe and and do something it doesn't have to be what everybody else agrees with like tough passion unified and thankful other people might not like that but that's what I believe and so I just want to be intentional about living that those values for me the behaviors like you said are the are the kind of the crux to the whole thing and it took me a long time to figure these out a lot of tough conversations with garen kind of kind of we started

Starting point is 00:25:01 it on napkin at geez in in in centerville like that's where we started scratching things out and um for us toughness comes down to positive body language that's how we that's how we base it and so that is a cardinal sin in our program if you if you pout if you put your head down if you throw your hands up at a officials, if you slouch down in class, if you walk in, all mopey coming into practice, like those things just, we just don't, just don't fly. And so our critical behaviors is positive bi-language. Our belief behind it is fight ready. Right. So for fight ready, like I just think of a boxer coming into the ring, like they've got pretty good body language, right? Most of the time, right? Like, if you're going into a fight,

Starting point is 00:25:54 like you're going you're going in with a bounce to your step with a with a mentality that you are attacking whatever you're going into and so you know I remember I specifically remember sitting in going to talk at your event and sitting there I was quiet I usually am quiet in those things but I was also going holy crap why is a high school basketball coach talking at this thing like you've got these people that are CEOs and running all these different things and I'm I'm coaching high school basketball right and so I but then I got to like all right well if I'm going to be tough then let's roll let I'm just I'm going for it like when I go like I'm going for it and so like it does come back in a lot of different situations for me and you know

Starting point is 00:26:42 I tell our guys all the time like I don't I don't wake up every morning at 445 like boom let's go but if that's my belief and that's my behavior then I got I got a I got go with. I'm doing it, right, if I'm going to be intentional by how I live. So that's tough for us. And I think it, I think it permeates everything. I think it's a big reason, like you said, I had a couple people, we turned the ball over right at the end of the state championship game, right, with about 15 seconds left. And I probably had 10 or 12 text or emails talking about how our guys didn't, didn't respond negatively in that situation. They just said, okay, let's go. We got to get a stop. what's and i just think i think that speaks to our culture and what i would hope um our guys take

Starting point is 00:27:30 from our program more than anything else i've told you this a lot but the the positive bi language aspect is just everything man like that is what you said like have you ever seen a tough person who doesn't have good positive body language and i thought you're right and that applies across all spectrums any industry any job any sports business as a leader, I think my dad always told me, you know, it's your duty to be in a good mood. It's your duty to be optimistic. It's your duty to believe. Does it mean you're not real and you don't understand the challenges you face, but that's part of your job, you know, and Scott Belski's talking about you're the emotional thermostat. And I just think it, it's, it, it, you can really

Starting point is 00:28:14 see it when the leader values that. And so I do think the toughest people are the ones who have positive body language. So I think that applies across the body language. So I think that applies across the board. So that's tough. We talked about Unified. How about passionate? Because I love the critical behavior for passionate too. Yeah. Passionate for us is just like we talk about choosing extra work. It's just a belief of mine kind of goes back to the chop wood stuff. It's like I don't know. Maybe it's just because I'm not that good at what I do. But I just feel like everything in life is always determined by the extra. It's always, it's always comes back. to that. Like what amount of extra are you willing to do? Oh, oh we got we have someone who

Starting point is 00:28:59 wanted this kid's doing. What's up, Gabe? What's up? You're you're right in the middle of your dad describing to what what what what passionate means. What's passionate mean to you? Just choose an extra word like stealing inches. Right. Right. Like I think your guys know the value. coach yeah they get that one for sure yeah uh no it's good to see you Gabe uh congrats on on the win man thank you i uh wanted to ask you about a specific moment uh now that you surprised your dad here so um right as the other team was taking out the ball to pass it in uh i don't remember how many seconds were left there was maybe a few and uh they passed it to the guy he shot it he missed and uh you want you want to stay title on ice

Starting point is 00:29:54 started filming and I sent this to your dad after the game. I'm sure you got a lot of these. And it was a, you know, you guys are celebrating and I see, I see you walk up to him and give him a hug. And it was a, it was a pretty long hug. And I was filming it like, you know, I'm getting, I'm like getting emotional, even thinking about it actually. And I, and I, and I had friends and I showed it to that they had the same feelings. I'm just curious for you. Could you take us inside that moment after you guys had won and you walk over. You're a sophomore. You led the team in scoring. you know, it went really well and you get there to do it with your dad.

Starting point is 00:30:30 I mean, it just means a lot, like him bringing me up through basketball and like allowing me to fall in love with the game. Like he was the first one that introduced me to it. So to be able to win with him, like my first state championship and his first state championship, it just like means a ton to me and I'm sure it means a lot to him. but as we started to go further and further into the tournament I just kept thinking how about I wanted to win for him wanted to win for the seniors and wanted to win for the guys so do you remember what you guys said to each other?

Starting point is 00:31:05 I just told him I loved him. Yeah. What was that like, like Brooke? I mean, it was special, right? It's one of those things. I've had a lot of people ask me that question, and it's like it's one of those things where I mean, of course, you always want to win a state championship.

Starting point is 00:31:24 I've been past that for a while now where that wasn't, that's not my barometer. It's not like, I mean, of course, you're playing. You want to win. Like, you're running the race to win, right? But I had kind of, like, I was good with whatever happened with this group at that point, because I felt like we were, we had maximized that, like, what we could do. And guys had bought so much into their role. Um, you know, for, for Gabe, it was, I mean, it was obviously cool to share it with him. I think, um, I think just being able to be on the court in that situation, you, you don't really think you're ever going to win it. You're like, oh, I want to, but that's probably never going to happen. And then for, for it to happen and, uh, for things to play out the way they did and for Gabe to be, you know, on that team when you win, when you win, it was, it was cool. It was cool.

Starting point is 00:32:17 Gabe, I heard that, I hope I'm not sharing out of turn here, but I heard that one of the things you started doing in the tournament was sending a text message to let them know that you were going to win. Can you talk more, assuming it's okay to talk. If it's not, I'll edit this out, but assuming it's okay, can you talk more about your philosophy on letting the team know that you were going to win and the belief that you had in them for each game in the tournament? Well, the coaches were telling me about how Tom Brady had been doing it.

Starting point is 00:32:52 And so, I mean, if he's doing it, he's experienced with winning. So I figured I was going to try it. And it seemed to bring everybody together, like a step closer. And if I hadn't sent it, by the time we got on the bus, I had five guys to have me like send your text. So, I mean, it was just me, like, letting them know that I believe in us and I believe in them. that we were going to go get the job done. I will say it was evident in watching. I got to watch most of your tournament games, the last four.

Starting point is 00:33:25 And the one of the things that's evident with, especially you as a leader of the team, I would say is it didn't seem like you were afraid of the moment. Or I think any of your three best players and really any of the players on team, actually now that I think about it. Can you share more about like how you, prepared to meet the moment because I as a sophomore I played as a sophomore I didn't

Starting point is 00:33:51 want to stay tight or anything but I remember probably not handling the situations as well as it looked like you've done it for a long time talk to me about your your mentality towards meeting the moment I mean I think all that comes from all the work that has come from the past on I mean it's basically just putting all your trust in that work And if it pays off, then it pays off. If it doesn't this time, I mean, it will eventually. So it's just kind of trusting in your work and surrendering the outcome. It's an interesting phrase to use.

Starting point is 00:34:30 I've heard your dad say that a few times. Earlier in your career, I heard you tried out for the North Coast Blue Chips team, Gabe. And I read that one of the things you did during the break of the, the, play was you challenged Bronny James, that's LeBron James son, to play one-on-one in the breaks of the action. And I heard that that impressed them. You kind of traded buckets and showed them that you weren't scared that you could play. Where does that fearlessness come from? I still think it comes from the work. In that instance, especially, I mean, I didn't really know. if I was good or not because I hadn't played anybody except in Dayton.

Starting point is 00:35:19 So I just kind of wanted to see if I was, if I was like any good at all. So I mean, if I got my butt whoops, then how did it go? But did like did you hang? Like could you how to go? Yeah, it was good. I mean, I scored on him a few times. He scored on me, but it was good. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:38 Well, uh, hey, I, I appreciate you being here, man. I'll, I'll let you roll. I'll finish up with your dad. but I appreciate you jumping on because I was and just want to say thank you. As a center of all alum, it was really special to get to experience everything you, you went through from afar from the crowd, man. So thanks so much for your work and your effort, man, and doing it at a place where a lot of people, you made a lot of people proud and you still got a couple more cracks at it to do it again.

Starting point is 00:36:09 So thanks for doing it. Thanks for jumping on here real quick, man. Yep, no problem. Thank you. All right, man. See you. See ya. Perfect.

Starting point is 00:36:19 So we just mentioned that, you know, Gabe not wasn't afraid to kind of call out Brownie and play. And speaking of him, I was going to get to this later, but we were already here. I was texting you during the playoffs of the NBA playoffs last year. I remember. And I said, what's just so for people who don't know, you know, Gabe made that team. And I think you guys played, he played for four years with him. correct and you were you ended up being basically the coach of the team even though it didn't start that way and I think I know you won't say this but like essentially handpicked by LeBron to be the

Starting point is 00:36:54 coach of the team when you were just helping out initially and um I asked you I'm like what's lebron actually like like like and and one of the things you said to me was he he's he may be the best in the world when it comes to gassing other guys up and I thought oh I never really heard that phrase. Can you talk can you share more about that experience as well as from a leadership perspective of gassing other guys up? Yeah. I mean first of all I don't know that LeBron handpicked me to coach. I'm sure he had some other options but I showed up at practice and helped Joe and in Dave for a couple years. So it was a great experience and you know being able to sit on a bench with LeBron and some tournaments was was pretty cool and just listening to his insight. Um,

Starting point is 00:37:43 but the the, the, the thing. thing that I noticed with LeBron is like all those kids on the team like he treated them like he was trying to make them and help them become the best that they could become. And what, I mean, when you're when you're the best player in the world, it's like when they say something to you, that's a whole lot different than me saying something to you, right? And so I recognize that. And the thing that's cool is he recognizes that too. And so he he doesn't hesitate to tell Gabe he's the best shooter in his class. Like he doesn't hesitate.

Starting point is 00:38:23 I would never tell Gabe that. But for LeBron, like he understands the impact of his words. The weight of his word. He understands that. And that's not an ego thing. That's being real. And I think it's a leader's responsibility to understand the weight of your words. Yeah, I think it's the opposite of an ego thing.

Starting point is 00:38:42 He is using that to empower other people. I mean, he does that in everything. If you look at, I mean, the school and Akron and he's got going on and like just if you watch what he does, he, he recognizes that and he uses it to help other people. And in this case, the kids on that blue chip team were the were the recipients of that over and over. And particularly Gabe, I mean, he was very, very good to Gabe, very positive with him. And, you know, I think I've told you before. one of the most important things you do as a parent is find people that will pour positively into your kids. And we were just very fortunate throughout that whole process, you know, the coaches that

Starting point is 00:39:23 he had, Dave and Joe and the parents of those other kids and, and, you know, LeBron and his family, they were, they did a lot of that for game. And so very, very blessed and fortunate, obviously, to be in that situation. I think from a leadership perspective, like if you, you look at the rosters of the teams that LeBron is taken to the finals. I mean, in some cases, those players are not very good. The other four, I mean, he's got Anthony Davis now, but in some cases, they're not. It blows your mind. And when they go play somewhere else, they're not nearly as good or even out of the league. And when you translate that to, to kind of the world outside of sports, I think thinking of how you can be the type of person

Starting point is 00:40:08 to gas others up to make them believe in themselves. I mean, for me, that's what, what coaches have done. I've talked to you a lot about coach Ron Allery and how he he lifted my level of play beyond what I, like way beyond what I thought I was capable of and I get a scholarship and it changes my life. And you as a coach and as a leader, this is like, this is, this is what you do. I mean, you lift guys up. How do you think about that responsibility and just the action of putting it into play every day? Well, the responsibility is awesome. Like, I like that. Like, that's, that's part of the reason you do it. I've spoken recently a lot about Coach Zeller, my high school coach. And that was his, one of his unique talents. And I didn't know to know as like at the time, I just thought he was, he liked me. You know what I mean? And then when you get out of it, you're like, he did that for everybody. I did. I had no idea. I felt the same way. I was special. Not really. I was just the guy at that time. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, being on the other side of it, it all makes sense now because your, like,

Starting point is 00:41:19 purpose is to help these guys approach excellence, right? To think of excellence over success. That's what I look at every time when I'm trying to help our players move forward in life. Because that's really what it is. I know it's basketball. I know that's our platform. That's what we're doing. But it's really, can we use basketball? basketball and the things that we teach in our program to move them forward. And part of that is helping them understand the contributions that they make to the group. I think the application of roles is really important in it. Everybody's not a score.

Starting point is 00:41:57 Everybody's not going to be the sales leader either, you know. And so recognizing that, figuring out what you provide and you give, that is no more or less important. what anybody else on the team gives. I think it's empowering for kids. And I think that's one of the best ways you can pour into them and gas them up is help them understand what their strengths are and how they contribute to the group. Speaking of Coach Zeller, you wrote a great blog post about them, which I've shared

Starting point is 00:42:29 and I encourage people to read. I'll make sure it's linked properly. But you said he, you quote, he never won a district, but he's the best coach I've been around. A state championship isn't success. It's the impact you have on the kids. because nobody's going to tell me that those guys that won state championships are better coaches than Z was. And I want to talk about goal setting for a second in relation to Coach Z as well as you.

Starting point is 00:42:55 Most people's goals are we're going to win a state title or we're going to win a conference, whatever. Like those are the set goals. But that's not how you set goals. What is your philosophy towards goal setting? So our goal is always a process-oriented goal. And so it is not like, it is never when state, when district, when it's never that. It's always like this year's basketball team was to attack every opportunity with purpose. That was our goal.

Starting point is 00:43:26 And so now the players set that. We have a big discussion. We have a big talk about it. They understand that we're not picking like a destination as a goal. We're picking a process that will help us in every aspect of our lives. And so when we do that. that once they settle on what they want their goal to be, then it becomes the coach's job.

Starting point is 00:43:46 It's our job to hold them to that goal. Like that's what they said they want their goal to be. And so, you know, I mean, for this year, it was, it was perfect. Like we, you know, so we beat, we end up beating Elder who shared the GCL, huge win for us to, you know, to win in the regional semis. And then the next game is Moeller, who, who's beaten us three years in a row in the regional, and won three straight state titles, you know, the kind of the power,

Starting point is 00:44:16 they haven't lost a tournament game in like three years. And, but for us, it was just, it's another opportunity. Let's attack it, right? Just, it's another opportunity. Baseline out of bounds, two seconds left for a state championship. It's another opportunity. Attack it.

Starting point is 00:44:32 Right. And so I think, I think when you approach goals that way that are process based, rather than results based, that's where the surrender of the outcome comes. Like if I attack that goal, if I attack that moment like with everything I have, then I got to be able to live with what happens with it, as long as I'm doing everything I can. So that kind of goes to the success stuff too. I mean, with Coach Z, I mean, I struggled with that for a long time,

Starting point is 00:45:05 early in my coaching career. It was all about wins, all about wins. How could I win the next game? because that's what I thought it was about. I mean, in understanding that and I mean, that blog post that I wrote about Zia was, I mean, even I had understood it, but it was, you know, it helped me just refresh that mentality and that mindset that that doesn't, it doesn't decide who the best coach is. It doesn't decide who none of that stuff does.

Starting point is 00:45:36 It's more about the impact that you have on those people and the kids that are in your program and the people that you're leading, you know, it's, how about though, how about if that's your goal, but you, you win five games and you string together a couple seasons, you know what happens. Like, you get fired. So how do you juxtapose those two things where you're in a profession that's pretty black and white as far as the outsiders and the athletic director and the people who make the decisions on do we hire or fire people? As a, a coach, if you don't win, you get fired. That's just how it works. So how do you make, because in the business world, it's the same. Let's say you're running a sales team and you miss

Starting point is 00:46:17 your numbers too many years in a row. What happens is a leader just gets fired. It's so easy. You just get rid of the leader and bring a new guy and a new girl in. How do you manage that thought in your mind that, well, our goal is more process oriented. However, I am going to be judged on my results and I will be hired or fired based upon my results in some cases, right? You have a record. You have a coaching record. So how do you manage that? Well, I don't think about it at all for one thing. If I get fired, I get fired for following our values and trusting our process. I would say if we're not being successful, remember, I'm defining success for myself. It's not society's definition. So those five wins may or may not be successful. But if I have, if I have, if I have,

Starting point is 00:47:08 really tough, really passionate, really unified and really thankful kids on my team, we're going to be pretty good. And then if we take those kids and we attack every opportunity, we're going to take care of itself. Exactly. Yeah, it's fine. Like that's where when I, the problem for me is when I stop thinking about helping kids be tough,

Starting point is 00:47:31 passion, unified, and thankful, and I stopped worrying about attacking the opportunity. and I start just worrying about winning the next game, now I'm sacrificing who I say I want to be, and that I can't deal with. How do you manage and hold people accountable to a process-based goal? So we talk about what it looks like. What does it look like to attack opportunities? And they'll start reeling things off.

Starting point is 00:47:57 And if you want checkmarks and you want benchmarks, and you want benchmarks, you want all that stuff, we can get those. Like, we can give you stats for games that you, would have to get we hardly ever go that direction with it but we we talk about what does it look like like to attack an opportunity what's it look like in a class behavior the action yes yes and and from there like what's it look like on the court what's it look like in practice what's it look like in our skull session before what's it look like in class what's it look like at home what's it look

Starting point is 00:48:27 like with your group of friends um and so we just talk about that stuff and you know the the clarity comes with it every year it comes with it like they they figure it out we we process through everything and everybody has a pretty clear picture of what what that looks like what that goal looks like being successful like completing that goal we know what it looks like the the reason why i think i i love your stuff is because i i never really like the kind of state championship goal because for me it was it was it was too far out there too it was too far away i like to think it was what i tell my guys like in the huddle, when we would huddle as we are no huddle most time, but when we, I would say, like, execute my job, like to the best that I can do it. Like I have to, and it actually made me

Starting point is 00:49:15 feel like the game was a little easier in a weird way, just execute what I'm supposed to do on this play and every play to my maximum effort, maximum ability. And my job also as a quarterback is to, you know, to push my teammates to do that as well and hold them accountable. And if I do that, things seem to work themselves out as opposed to thinking about like the end of the game or like the big plays or the big shots that your guys hit. It's like the next play. It's the next action I'm going to take instead of thinking about this grand picture. It's like no, I'm, this is what I'm doing. That's how I feel it. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think it's, you know, it's like win the day. It's the next play. It's one percent better. All those same things go. They

Starting point is 00:50:02 They all speak to the same thing. And like, you know, those big shots that Tom and Quinn hit in those games, like, I wasn't surprised at all that Quinn hit the shot. Like, I really? Not at all. I wasn't surprised at all that Tom hit the shot. Like that never, and if they didn't hit the shot, I was good because they just, they took the chance.

Starting point is 00:50:24 They were willing. They were there. That's in their role. They were just doing their job at the time. One of the values we didn't get to as Gabe Jump. on was about being thankful. Can you share more about what the belief and critical behaviors are of being thankful, your fourth value? Yeah, so thankful for me is just, I think it's just a huge thing in life. More than anything, it's something I want to make sure our kids take from our program,

Starting point is 00:50:51 just a feeling of gratitude and appreciation for not only the people that are in the fight with them, but also the people that came before them that have provided the opportunity to be where they are. we've got a quote in our locker room that says drink the water but remember who dug the well and like that's what we're talking about so a lot of our guys talked about alumni and stuff like that after our game which I thought was really cool because those guys have poured into it and they've allowed this group to be where they are but our behavior for that is show love and so in basketball the way we do it is we get touches is what we and so on a normal year in practice, we will chart and stat like the number of touches between teammates and players.

Starting point is 00:51:37 And I didn't think of that. That's a, I mean, that's an old, it came from the NBA. They just said there was an article a while ago about teams that touch the most, win the most. Like high fives, pat on the back, help them up off the ground. That's what it touches. Yeah. And so we, I mean, we have a rule in our program. Like if a guy, if a guy turns it over, everybody's supposed to get a touch on him.

Starting point is 00:51:57 If a guy, like to help him get to the next play. In practice, you're constantly, we'll watch film in practice and chart it. And it's, you know, some guys will receive a lot of touches and not initiate a lot of touches. And so there's a difference between those things. But it's just, it's just something that I think connects our guys. And, you know, and it shows your appreciation for that guy that set a screen for you or that guy that took a charge or, you know, I don't know what the corporate equivalent to it is. I think showing love though, like writing thank you notes and sending it's just important. It's just important.

Starting point is 00:52:40 I think one of the ways to do this is that's one of them is certainly sending notes. I love to send gifts to kids of their mom or dad worked really hard. Like that's showing love. I love to ask like a senior, senior, even the CEO, you know, I'd use some cold email skills. like, can you write an email to my buddy Jameson who was absolutely crushing it? I'd give them, I'd like, sometimes I'd write the email for them to make it, like, give them the best shot. And then they get an email from the CEO and there are many levels below.

Starting point is 00:53:11 And there's these ways to, to show them some love that you appreciate how hard they work, that there are ways, like, especially the corporate world, if you're not allowed to touch in some cases, you've got to be careful here. That's why, you know, basketball can be great. But I did notice, like, anytime someone on your team comes out of a game, they smack hands with everybody on the bench coaches, other players every time. Obviously, if somebody gets knocked down, the whole teams they're trying to pick them up, like as quickly as possible, especially if they take a charge.

Starting point is 00:53:39 And that's what leads me to my next question, which we talked about yesterday. Gabe leads the world in taking charges. I don't know that to be a fact, but I would gamble a lot of money that Gabe has taken more charges than anybody in the world. And one of the questions that you and I talked about, because the purpose of our meeting yesterday was kind of trying to, to what do we look for in leaders? If we're trying to hire leaders, we're trying to hire a staff. And you said to me like, well, will you take a charge? Will you take a charge?

Starting point is 00:54:12 And we were trying to come up with the equivalent of what's that, what's the question to ask in the hiring interview process of will you take a charge? Because it's outside of basketball, it has to be more of a metaphor. and will you talk to me more about the importance of taking a charge? And maybe you have to define what that means for people who don't know anything about basketball, by the way. Yeah. So, I mean, a charge is basically when you stand in front of a player driving to the basket or out on the floor and you keep them from going where they want, but you're legal guarding position and they run over you and you fall and the official calls it,

Starting point is 00:54:50 it's a violation on the offense and the defense gets the. the ball back. So it's a steel. For us, it's like a dunk because we don't dunk that often. But you know, it's, I just think, I just think, one, you've got to be in tune with what's going on, right? You've got to be paying attention to the bigger picture of what's happening on the floor, right? You're worried about the pack. You're not worried about yourself. You're not worried about your guy. You're worried about guarding the other team. You're worried about what the team is doing. So there's that awareness that I think is critical. And I think that's important in everything in every aspect of life, in your family and

Starting point is 00:55:31 you're in the business world, having an understanding of what everybody else is dealing with, everybody else is going through. So I think there's just that awareness aspect of it. And then, you know, the physical part of it is you're willing to sacrifice. Like, it's going to hurt sometimes. Like, you know, you take 45 charges in a season. Like, you've fallen down a lot of times. with the guy running over you.

Starting point is 00:55:53 And are you willing to do that knowing that it helps your team, right? Because that's an unselfish act. And we want unselfish players. So when you choose to not do that, when you are there to take a charge and you intentionally get out of the way, the only message your teammates can get is that's not worth it, right? That possession, that play, that's not worth it for the good of the team. I'm not willing to give that up.

Starting point is 00:56:22 And so we want guys that are like, I'll give it up every single time. Every time I will try to give it up. And sometimes it'll work and sometimes it won't. But the next time there's an opportunity, I'll give it up again. Right. And so I just think, I don't know, I just feel like I haven't coached very many guys in 20 years, however many years I've been coaching that have avoided charges. and have been all in on what we're trying to do.

Starting point is 00:56:52 And the opposite is true. I haven't coached very many guys that consistently try to take charges that aren't all about us and our team winning. So I don't know how I translate that. And that's one of the things we were talking about, like you said, what it looks like in the corporate world. But I think there is an equivalent to it. And I think just for me, it's that willingness to sacrifice,

Starting point is 00:57:15 put the team ahead of yourself. and, you know, do what's the best for the team when it's not the easiest thing for you. Exactly. I think that is the equivalent is like we know those people we've worked with who go out of their way to help appear, even if it's not really going to benefit them. They don't think like, well, what am I going to get out of this? They just do it because it's the right thing to do. It's like their default mode is an opportunity to help the team, an opportunity to help another person. And they just do it.

Starting point is 00:57:44 They don't really think about it. They don't really look for adulation or praise. They just do it. No big deal. They go back to their day and then they see another opportunity and they attack it, as you would say. I want to talk about high standards, though. So I went to one of your games earlier in the year before they were all really close at the end.

Starting point is 00:58:01 And this is a game that wasn't close. Don't even remember who you're playing. It doesn't matter. But it was the third quarter of the game. You're winning 60 to 24. I take notes when I go to basketball games. If Brooks coaching just for people so people know, 60 to 24, it's the third quarter and you guys try to get a little sloppy i don't know if you'd sub some guys

Starting point is 00:58:19 or whatever you might have been like your team rarely has turnovers from games i see they don't really make many mistakes you know doing playing the right way but they're getting a little sloppy you're crushing them you're going to win by a lot regardless and you call time out and i think you you rarely call a timeouts even to stop momentum like it happens every once in a while but it's you don't you're almost like more phil jackson like from what i've seen like you don't call as many timeouts as most coaches do you let it seems like you let your guys figure that out and maybe it may be another question by the way to hit but anyway you call time out and you're crushing this team you more than doubled them up you're going to win by a lot and you just ripped them to shreds like i remember

Starting point is 00:58:54 watching it i was taking notes and saying like oh my gosh it was it was like it was really bad and to me what it showed was it doesn't matter that we're going to win this game it doesn't matter that we're we've already been crushing them. We have standards. And right now, we're not living up to the standards that we've set that we expect to play at our level. And so can you talk more about these standards that you set and how you are pretty relentless, I would say, of holding your people to these standards regardless of how much you're winning by against anybody? Yeah, I mean, the standards is standard.

Starting point is 00:59:37 It doesn't change based on who you're playing or where you're playing or what you're doing. I think that I think the consistency of that is what allows you to approach excellence. Like it's it really, I mean, it comes back to the excellence over success. Like if I'm just, if you're just looking at it from a success standpoint, well, there's no reason to call a time out. You're still up 20 or 30 or whatever you're up. Or you're still making the profit and the margin or whatever you're trying to make. But if it's not the standard, it's eventually going to lead to, you know, a poor performance. It's like that's where it's where that will become the standard.

Starting point is 01:00:14 Yes, exactly. And so I just think from a coaching standpoint, from a leadership standpoint, you don't get what you ask or what you demand. You get what you accept. And if you don't accept it, then that, then you don't get it. And so that's, it's just like body language. If you don't accept bad body language, then you don't get bad body language. The easier thing in that moment would be just to let them play.

Starting point is 01:00:39 Just let it go. You're going to win. Like there was no doubt you're going to win. And it would have been easier and selfish to let them play just to let them go. But I think you did the harder thing. And I don't know how many people were even paying attention because it was an easy win. And you call it time out and rip the guys. And I think that was the other part that was evident to me that those kids will realize probably later.

Starting point is 01:01:02 And some of them do now, but later that, oh, this standard set and being held accountable to it made me better. And that's what a great coach does. Yeah, I think the like it, it's my standard too. So I'm not only compromising the team, I'm compromising. That's, that's part of the reason I think those values need to be central to whoever your leader is because I'm more willing to call them on it because that's like it's personal to me. So if I, if I ignore it now, now I'm not only is my team violating the standard. I'm violating my own personal values. And that I'm not, I'm not cool with.

Starting point is 01:01:38 I'm not, I don't want to do that. creating values. Did you do these on your own or did you do these with the team? I asked this because there are there are there's a VP right now who is thinking like I need to, I don't have any values. I got to create this. Let's let's get everybody together and let's all come up with our values. Or is it I sense that that that's not necessarily how you think about this. Like what what is it from a from a creation of values perspective that the advice you would give to others that they're thinking and saying, I have not done a good job with this. Or they have like 38 values, which is what I initially did when I did the values thing. What do you, what's your advice

Starting point is 01:02:18 to them? I think if you're the leader of your team or your group, then you, they need to be your values. You do them on your own. You like, you get help from your foxhole guys, but they're on your own. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. You get feedback from your foxhole guys. You might ask them like, you know, a text that we send in our foxhole every once in a while is just like, you mean two words that describe me. Like what would be what's the first two words that that you used you would use to describe me? And hopefully your core values show up in there after all the all the jabs that you pass and you know you're getting real answers. But I think it's just I think because of that willingness to hold them accountable and hold them to a standard, I think that's why it has to be your values.

Starting point is 01:03:00 Now, like I said, if I'm working for someone else and I'm, let's say I'm an assistant coach for for a coach, it's his values or her values that I need to be. But then it's my choice. Like, am I cool with, am I good with embracing and teaching those values? And if I'm not, then I should not coach there. I should not work for that person. I need to find a place where I can support them. If the person above you or your boss, your leader, doesn't have values, then that's a conversation I think you need to have because I think everybody should have. I think every organization should have them. And I think they should be limited to three to four things because we can say we have 10 values and we probably do. Like there's things that tie in to tough,

Starting point is 01:03:43 passion, unified and thankful. But if I ask you what your values are and you can't name them, then are they really values? Like it has no merit. Like you have, you're saying these things. You don't know what behavior. If you have 10 values and you can't name all them, you sure as heck, can't name the behaviors that would go with them that would tell you how you're living those values. So I think the key is in the simplicity of them. Like stand for something. You can't stand for everything. So decide what you're going to stand for and stand for that. An interesting question to ask and maybe this could lead to some enlightenment, which is good to happen on the front end. You're going for a big job and you're meeting with the hiring

Starting point is 01:04:27 manager of that job, the person that you will report to and you say, what are your values? what do you value and you say the reason I'm asking is if we're not aligned or they're not what I believe in you know I don't think they have to be like a perfect match right like you could go work for a coach that it's not tough passion you I mean they're not going to be those four that they there may be some carryover but if they're not and you ask that question in an interview which by the way like I think everybody should ask that question and it should go both ways and that person either is like oh they stammer and they try to they try to name the things on the wall that every company has and they struggle a little bit. And they're like, well,

Starting point is 01:05:05 we've out in, uh, it's a little kind of a red flag, right? But I, I'll tell you, Brooke, I think there's a chance that there, that may be, that may happen a lot. You know what I mean? Like, that's why I think your work so important to, to get out in the world beyond just where you're at now, coaching basketball and, and teaching this and why I'm excited to work more with you because this seems to be something that's sorely needed, but not done very well yet. Yeah, I think, I mean, if you put yourself in that situation, you've hired that person, right? If they, I mean, they'd move right up the ranks. If they go, oh my God.

Starting point is 01:05:44 In a second. In a second. Right. And so. And they, and they, and it's obvious that they thought through theirs, you know, because I remember I asked you, I'm like, do you remember your interview process when you went for the job? And, and you're like, I, you know, I kind of lay out what I'm about. I lay out my values.

Starting point is 01:05:58 And if it's a fit, it's a fit. And if it's not, that's okay. That's good. I'd rather just know. And I was like, wow, like, nobody says that to me. Like, you're like, I kind of let them know who I am. And it's not always a fit. And that's fine. And, uh, but that's how it goes. So yeah, anyway, I interrupt you. Go ahead. No, I just think, I think that's a, it's such an empowering thing. Like, you know, if somebody, I'm interviewing somebody and they ask that, it's a whole different level of self-awareness, confidence. Like, that's the person that's going to go after what you want them. They're going to take initiative on their job, right? And so the part of it where you ask and they don't know,

Starting point is 01:06:38 I think then that puts it back on my plate where, well, now I got to decide, is it worth it? Is that job worth it when they don't really know what their direction is? Or can I help them with their direction? Maybe that's what I'm here for and maybe that's a way I can add value to that person if I do get the job, right? Maybe I can lead them down that. road one of a shifting gears for a second one of the things I notice is I've got to see you guys win

Starting point is 01:07:04 some championship games like running regionals winning a state title and and I always try to like I like to watch people celebrate it's fun it's emotional like I love it especially a guy I care about like you and I noticed that when the team takes the picture that you you never get in the picture it's just your guys just the players not the coaches and it's seems intentional and it seems different because in most of those things, I feel like the coaches like stand right next to the guys and they're celebrating, but you don't do that. And also when you were cutting down the nets after winning the state title, like you didn't, you, you let everyone else go and then the entire net came down and you had to go to the other hoop and cut down that

Starting point is 01:07:46 net. And so like you weren't like in the middle of the celebration. And I'm just curious to get your your thought process behind the celebration after you win and not being in the pictures and not going on the same hoop as the guys and having to go on the other one. What do you think about that? I mean, I just think it's about the kids. Like it's, it's their game. I mean, I think the same thing coaching wise and like my job is to prepare them as best as I can prepare them, get them to the point. I'm going to help them in the games, but like that's their time. It's their game and it's their experience. And so I'm I'm lucky enough to be along for the ride with them. But, But as far as those pictures go, cutting down the nets, like, I've had that time as a player.

Starting point is 01:08:31 And like, I mean, I didn't have the time that these guys had. But I have had those opportunities. And I just want them to make sure they're sharing that with each other and with those guys that have been in practice every day with them and in the locker room with them. I like, I want that to be their shared experience. And, you know, I don't, I don't need that. I don't, I like watching it. I love to sit back and be able to watch them do that. And that's like that brings me way more joy than climbing up the ladder or doing any of that other stuff.

Starting point is 01:09:01 Really cool. One more. When you think about your Foxhole guys and Coach Z and some of the other important people in your life and the ones who, you know, you and I are so aligned when it comes to excellence, you know, I'm all about excellence and sustaining it. Like, what do you think those foxhole guys and the people closest to you all seem to have in common? That's a good question. I would say they all might not articulate my core values, but they all value the same things that I value. There is a, I mean, with toughness, I mean, I can't think of anybody that I would say is in my foxhole. that I wouldn't use my core values to describe also.

Starting point is 01:10:01 And so I think it's a shared appreciation for what I value. And then I think it goes both ways. I appreciate what they value and how they live their life and how intentional they are with the things and the way they want to live. Do you see evolving or changing as you're a big time reader? You're always studying and learning and growing. Do you see values as being kind of set in stone in concrete or are you like, well, I keep learning. Maybe these are going to change or maybe I'll evolve.

Starting point is 01:10:38 Like, what do you think about that? Yeah, I mean, I think, I don't think anything's set in stone. I think, I mean, I think as you learn and grow and you change and you're in different seasons of your life and you've had different experiences. I mean, I could, I could see values. Maybe not. I don't value these things anymore. It's just that something else may become more prevalent and more, you know, more of a focus for me in my life that I want to be intentional about living. So I would say it's just it's a constant reflection, a constant, you know, you're never really done.

Starting point is 01:11:13 You're what you're always becoming, right? So I think, I think it's just, you know, you live and you learn and you keep adjusting and you keep trying to modify things and, you know, be a. intentional and as close to excellence as you can be well uh thanks for doing this man i i know we originally intended to pack the house um and do it live in front of a big crowd and yeah 2020 happens so that put a debt in that but we will do it um at some point in the future uh i'll make you do it um even if you're gonna push back on me because you think you don't have anything valuable to say which just blows my mind but part of the part of why i think people like you because the humility of that so i'm just i'm really grateful for your friendship i'm really grateful for

Starting point is 01:11:59 um you giving that talk and blowing everybody away and saying we've got to have brook join our leadership circle and now we're just sitting waiting on the edge of our seat for you to talk each time so thanks for doing that man thanks for being here it's really fun i appreciate you ryan you've been one of those guys that's prodded me along when i've tried to i've tried to kind of play it safe so you've definitely pushed me out of my comfort zone a number of times i appreciate our friendship and and everything I've learned from you and the opportunities you've exposed for me. Well, I'm going to keep hammering you on getting this book out, and I'll do everything I can to help you sell a billion copies

Starting point is 01:12:34 because I know you're super uncomfortable about promoting anything that you do. I'm happy to be the head sales rep for you. So that's coming later. We'll talk more about that later, but for now, thanks so much, Ben. We'll be, we'll obviously be talking. Sounds good. Thanks, Ryan. All right.

Starting point is 01:12:49 All right. All right. See it. Wow. That was fun. As you can tell, I love what Brooke Cups stands for. He has been one of those friends for me over the last few years that has just flat out made me better. And I would urge you to seek out people like him to have in your life and you try to do the same for those others.

Starting point is 01:13:19 and I could talk to them all day. I'm lucky that we do get to talk quite a bit about leadership principles and living our values. And so just a few of the notes from this one, setting process-oriented goals versus results-based goals, which flies in the face of a lot of people and a lot of companies. And I understand that, especially in my background in sales, where we had a number that we had to exceed and the fact that their goal for this year was attack every opportunity with purpose. And he shared how his team, in fact, did that all the way to winning a state championship. And then the standards you set are about what you create and most importantly what you allow.

Starting point is 01:14:09 And I vividly remember that game when I watched him call the time out after his team had a few sloppy mistakes, even though they are up by a ton because he realized if he's living to his values and the values of his team that the selfless thing to do would be to speak up in that moment and actually would be selfish and easier to remain quiet and let the sloppiness ensue.

Starting point is 01:14:34 And he didn't do that because that's not the type of person that he is. And then just the living your values part, right? Creating them is one thing, but then understanding the behaviors behind each, value. I mean, that's what Brooke is all about. Being tough, passionate, unified, and thankful, and toughness is positive body language and being fight ready and passionate's choosing extra work so they can steal inches and unified is speaking and acting with urgency and being thankful

Starting point is 01:15:04 is showing love and getting touches. I mean, that's what Brooke and his teen. That's what they're all about. And so I certainly love this conversation. I hope you did as well. well. And I want to say thank you very much for continuing to spread the word telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode of the Learning Leaders Show with Brooke Cups, especially if you care about creating and living your values. It will help you be a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that, because you continue to write a review on Apple Podcasts and rate the show, hopefully five stars, you are continuing to give me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so much.

Starting point is 01:15:51 Talk with you soon. Can't wait.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 413: Brook Cupps - Living Your Values: Tough, Passionate, Unified, & Thankful

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