The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 424: Bert Bean & Sam Kaufman - Rebuilding A Culture, Taking Risks, & The Next Step...

Episode Date: June 20, 2021

Text LEARNERS to 44222 for more... Full show notes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12  https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Notes: Bert Bean is the CEO of Insight Global. Insight Global is a 3.3 Billion Dollar staffing company that focuses on living its shared values and empowering people. started with Insight Global in 2005 as a Recruiter and has since worked his way up within the company, exemplifying Insight Global's "promote from within" culture. Bert was announced as Insight Global's CEO on January 13, 2018. According to Comparably, Insight Global and its executive team (led by Bert and Sam) have been rated as an A+ by their employees. Sam Kaufman is the Chief Revenue Officer of Insight Global. Sam began his career at Insight Global as an Entry Level Recruiter in 2004, and he has earned many promotions throughout his career. Sam's mission day in and day out is to improve and grow as a leader in sales so that he can help his people develop personally and professionally. Notes: Don't Bury The Lede -- The purpose of this episode is to announce that we (Insight Global + The Learning Leader) are formally working together. Insight Global will be the presenting sponsor of all episodes moving forward and I will work with the leaders at Insight Global. Changing the culture -- In 2017, employee turnover was 40%. Bert took over as CEO in January 2018. The current turnover is 14%. Fortune Magazine ranked Insight Global as one of the best workplaces for both millennials and women. 70% of leadership promotions in 2019 were for women The impact of episode #242 with Daniel Coyle "A leader at a Private Equity conference told me to listen to your episode with Dan Coyle. I did and it changed the trajectory of our company." Why Bert is a great CEO (according to Sam): "Bert gives everything to his people. He wakes up at 4:00 am every day to handwrite notes to people. He cares so much about developing people." Why Sam is a great leader (according to Bert): "Sam is super driven. Extremely hard worker... And cares about his people. He's also willing to take a risk and bet on himself." Insight Global has a "promote from within" culture. "We are the ultimate growth mindset business." "We must invest in training and developing our people." I will be helping with Insight Global University, Leadership Academy, and providing feedback for leaders within the business. Bert -- "I love aligning with grinders." The "Bert voicemail" -- "When I see something I want, I love being a bad negotiator and just telling them." "I believe in first WHO, then what. That's why I want to work with you." "We want you to remain independent and out in the market giving speeches and learning from leaders outside of Insight Global. We value you having fresh eyes to help us." The Utah Offsite retreat: Rented a big house with 28 leaders and rebuilt the value system and the culture "We all got in a big circle and shared our lowest moment and highest moment. There were a lot of tears... And we came together in the moment." Legendary leader -- "Kirby was dying from cancer. He couldn't walk. The cancer was eating his bones and he flew out there to be with us. He means everything to us. He is the ultimate example of grit." Kirby died a few months after that off-site meeting. Leadership "must-haves" Sam - Three things. You have to care - You won't follow someone who doesn't care about you. High character - Must earn the respect of your peers. Do the right thing all of the time. You're there to serve - "Don't think of leadership as power. Think of it as a burden. A massive responsibility." Bert - "You can't be a bullshit leader. Must be authentic. Not a phony. People see through that. You must take care of and develop people in your charge." The Insight Global shared values: Everyone matters We Take Care of Each Other Leadership is Here to Serve High Character and Hard Work Always Know Where You Stand Purpose - "Our purpose is to develop our people personally, professionally, and financially; so they can be the light to the world around them." - Bert Bean

As we pull people out of the field to become trainers, we have this saying. We say it needs to hurt. If we're talking about a new trainer for a new class, it should be painful. It should sting. It should be like, we can't get that person up because they're too good. That's the person that you need to add. If you lead with that type of a mindset, you can really train people to do anything. Welcome to the Learning Leaders Show presented by Insight Global.

I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text, learners to 4422 to become part of Mindful Monday. You, along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world, will receive a carefully curated email for me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right. You'll also receive details about how my book, Welcome to Management, will help you become a more effective leader. Text, Learners to 4422. Now on to tonight's extra special episode with my guest, Bert Bean and Sam Kaufman.

Bert is the CEO of Insight Global. Insight Global is a $3.3 billion staffing company that is dedicated to empowering people. Sam is the chief revenue officer at Insight Global. He's responsible for leading and serving thousands of people. And on a personal note, Sam and I have worked together for the past 16 months, me playing the role of his executive coach. And the purpose of this episode is to learn more about both of them as well as Insight Global as a company. A few of the topics we discussed how Bert and Sam started as entry-level employees. And I've earned multiple promotions over the past 17 years and how you can do the same. And then the importance of taking risk and why they are critical to the development of your career. And then we go deep on creating and living your shared values.

And Sam shares the emotional story about a remarkable leader who helped Insight Global commit to living their shared values. And at the beginning of this conversation, we make a big announcement about the future of my. work. Now, this is a huge career move for me. And I want to take a moment to thank you for continuing to support me and this show and spreading the learning leader message far and wide and telling your friends to listen. And because of you, an incredible opportunity has come my way. And I'm going for it. And I have to say thank you so much. So without further ado, please, enjoy this conversation with Bert Bean and Sam Kaufman. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show.

It's great to have you guys here. Thank you very much, Ryan. Happy to be here. Fart up. All right, man. So let's not bury the lead. The whole purpose of this episode, this conversation, is to share some really big news about our partnership.

And that's Insight Global and the Learning Leader Show, which is me, are formally, working together as of now. And I am, I'm just super pumped about it. And so during our time together, let's, I think we're going to discuss why we're doing this, the backstory about how it all came together, some of the cool inside details about how these things come together, what Insight Global is all about, why this is something that you guys wanted to do. And obviously, I want to share both of your stories as well, because I think there's a lot for people to learn from about both you guys. So to start, though, Sam, I'd like for you to share about our first interactions and how you and I first got connected.

Yeah. Well, it was actually, so Bert here had told me that I'm doing a horrible job connecting with the outside world. And as part of my role, I needed to do more of that. And so I spoke to a couple members on our board. and I was like, would you have anybody that you could connect me to that could be like a coach or someone that could give me some outside perspective? And Lou and Drosie on our board was like, I think I know someone.

He came from Relax. He's actually a sales guy like you. You'll probably get along. So, you know, I got your name. And it's instant. And Lou like just, you know, it was an email. It just said Ryan Hawk. And I had been listening to the Learning Leader podcast for about a year at that point.

And so when he sent that to me, I was like, it couldn't possibly be the same person. And then I responded back to Lou and his response was something like, I think he does a podcast or something like that. And so that's when I was like, oh, I think this really is that Ryan Hawke. So that got me very excited. And then you're going to be mentored by a celebrity. I know. I was like, this is a guy who's been mentoring me without knowing it for a year.

And now I might actually, you know, talk directly with him. And so in our first conversation, Ryan, you just, you embodied exactly what I expected. of you, which was just as such a curious person. You asked so many intelligent intellectual questions. You just naturally want to learn. That's why the learning leader brand for you just makes so much sense. And I was like, oh man, this guy is going to really, you ask a lot of good questions. And so it makes me really, you know, think introspectively.

And it's, you know, our first conversation really, really showed me that. Sam, I remember that I actually called my dad, which I don't do after like a random thing. one because of Lou because him and Lou are friends. And not surprised. I love Lou and he's like like a close family friend now, but that he doesn't fully know about my podcast. So maybe he'll listen to this one. If so, Lou,

I'm glad you're listening finally. But no, I remember calling him saying, you know, these one-on-one type deals for me, I don't actually like to do a lot of them. They're kind of hard because you get really invested. It's time intensive because there's a lot of work that goes on in between.

And so I don't always like to say yes to them for that reason because I'd like to create a lot of creative space for me to think to prepare for these types of shows to go give speeches, do things like that. So when I do them, it's it's got to be worth it. And it's got to be with somebody that I really actually want to become friends with because that inevitably happens. It's happened 100% of the time when I've worked one-on-one with somebody. And I remember talking to my dad saying, I actually think this dude, Sam, who's a president at this, this really cool. company called Insight Global as I'm learning more about I think I actually want to do this one and it's just crazy though that was I believe January or February and then all of a sudden the world gets flipped upside down and and so our first year together it's like every other day we're trying to

figure out like are we going to survive both of us and I think that that part of it was in a way brought us closer together you know well it was I mean if you remember our first week working together we were supposed to have dinner in Atlanta together. Yeah. And it was Tuesday. We were having dinner on Thursday. And I texted you. I said, are you still planning on coming?

And I was like, he must be crazy if he's still coming. And he responded, yes. And I was like, God, this is my kind of guy. And then on Wednesday, you texted me back and said, I don't think it's a good idea. And I was like, I think I fully agree with that. Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. Yeah, we did everything remotely for, I think, 13 months.

Yeah. It's wild. But no, I felt, like I said, I felt the same about you. Now, Bert, I think I first got to know you because as part of the work I was doing to help Sam was I like to do these 360 reviews. So interview people who are peers of Sam as well as people who are above him, which in this case, there's really only one. And that's you, the CEO of the company. And then also people who work for Sam. And it was one of, I would say the probably the most fun project I did.

in the work with sam last year because i got to know so many people that i thought this the the people who work at this company are amazing i mean every person that i talked to and not all of them said like sam is perfect now most of them did say like glowing things for the for the most part with a few minor little um some things that you had to work on which is part of why we do the 360 but then i remember i talked to you bert and thought this is the type of a CEO that i'd want to work with and i never thought this would actually ever happen but i thought this is the type of guys and and and and what sam had been telling me about you matched up and so i was curious about your first thoughts on our first interaction which was really primarily focused on sam but you and i felt like got to know each other really well

through the questions and answers for each other yeah i mean so i was i was really excited to talk to you ryan i don't know if you want me to share this story now or later but it's because of episode 242 right Okay. So, you know, I'm CEO of Insight Global. We're a $3.3 billion staffing company. We started 20 years ago in our founder's basement and all of our growth has been organic. I got promoted in my, by the way, I started off as a recruiter. Sam also started as a recruiter. We're sort of psychotic in that almost everybody here, unless you're, you know, within our IT groups or whether you're in finance, accounting, legal, almost everybody, I would say 90% of, the organization starts off as a recruiter, and then we only promote for them. So I get promoted in January of 2018 to CEO. And at that point in time, we, I mean, this is probably too aggressive, but it's sort of how I felt. I felt that we weren't a really good company. We were just, turnover was at an all-time high. We had really lost our way in a bunch of areas. And I'm a firm believer that every organization has a real inner voice to it. And the inner voice of our company

was saying, I don't like you and I don't want to be here is what I was feeling. And we as leaders get the opportunity to deal with that inner voice and listen to it if we want to or not. And so here I am, I'm like two months into my role and we're owned by private equity, which by the way, if you're sort of not growing all that well and you're losing a lot of people, and you're owned by private equity, that's also fun. to sort of figure out and navigate as a new CEO. And so, but we had a really good, we had a really good private equity owner at that time named Aries. And I was, I was at Aries investor conference. And I met a gentleman who was a banker from a great Midwestern bank called William Blair.

And he, this guy comes from out of nowhere just across the room. And he sort of seeks me out, because we're one of areas portfolio companies. And he says, hey, you're the new CEO with Insight Global, right? I'm like, yeah. And he said, man, you guys have a great culture. And we had been known for having a good culture at that time. But he didn't know what I knew that we had lost our way of it. And I was like, yeah, yeah, it's awesome culture. And there was just a company that's a really good, a great security firm called Convergis. And they do have a good culture. And they had just presented. He's like, man, those guys have a great culture too. I'm sure you guys are a lot of like. And I remember at the time being a bit jealous of Convergis. And he said, well, I tell you what, man, if you're into culture, you should really, I don't. I know if you're a big podcast guy, but there's this guy named Ryan Hawk with a show called The Learning Leader. Episode 242 is where he interviews this guy named Daniel Coyle, who's the author of the culture code. You should really give that a listen. And like, then he walked away. And that was about that was the extent of our conversation. And so I was like, all right, well, maybe I'll listen to that. And that podcast, the podcast you did with Dan Coyle changed everything for us. I mean, I just,

it was something about that book and how simple it was and how it's really all about the best cultures out there. What do they do? They build safety. They share vulnerability and they establish purpose. And so I listened to it and was like the, I mean, every light bulb in the world went off for me as a leader. I had my whole team read it. And from there, we just enacted a whole bunch of stuff in the company that we're able to sort of turn things around to stem the turnover tide and to build a stronger culture. But it really kind of came from from the podcast that you do with Dan Cole. So sorry, you didn't have equity in the business. Then that probably would have, I feel like I owe you something there. But that's why I was excited to talk to.

you about Sam's thing was was to kind of share some of that with you and uh and to get your perspective on it and that that's why I'm excited about this partnership Brian is because I mean you've done well over 400 of these things now I think coming up on 500 where you've talked to just just unbelievable leaders of big and small organizations and I think there's just a lot that we can learn from you there well it means a lot it's out also hearing a story like that bird is is is just the juice man it is it is the fuel for me to um be overly prepared for every single conversation that i record for this show because it's it's an old adage but it's true just you just never know like you never know and i said this to sam after i first heard that story what if i wouldn't have read

the culture code and just tried to skate by because i ran out of time and i didn't do a good job with dan And Dan, it's so funny that he's the guy because he's become now a mentor of mine because he works with the Cleveland Indians. He's here in Ohio for a bulk of the year. I've spent time with him having many meals where I just am able to ask him any and every question about being a writer and a speaker and culture. And it's just wild how the world works, man. And I think that's a good message for anybody is whatever, like we all have moments and we all have opportunities. and it's like let's make sure that we make the most of those moments. And you might you might not even realize it because I didn't know that story until years

after the fact. And that's exciting to me. And it's just another reminder to never take this for granted as well as to be prepared for big opportunities. I am curious when someone becomes, gets tabbed as the CEO. one of the questions I like to ask them is, is why did they pick you? And I'd love you to be as honest as possible, even if you have to brag a bit. But I'm curious, why do you think you got Tab to be the CEO of Insight Global?

I'm really good at playing politics. No, I'm kidding. No, I, you know, yeah, that is a super awkward question to ask. But I think I've always, in any role I've ever had, I've tried to be the absolute best at that current role. and I've never tried to look too far beyond that role. I mean, sure, it's important to have long-term goals. But I've just always wanted to be the guy that says, well, let me just let my work, you know, speak for itself.

But I did, you know, once I got into positions at my company where I had more influence, I made sure to let my voice be heard. And I really made sure to speak my mind and to say, what was on my mind, regardless of the consequences or regardless of, am I going to offend somebody or am I going to, I almost was, I was almost an idiot in the way I would say things that I just really believe to be true and right that we need to think about. And I didn't do it in an offensive way. I wasn't trying to make anybody feel bad, but, but, you know, I realized the influence that I had and I realized the impact of some of our decisions once I got to a high enough level.

And I think, you know, my former boss is able to see that and say, okay, you know, here's a guy that that is comfortable being his own guy. And, uh, and I really, really appreciate our former CEO and founder, his name is Glenn Johnson for giving me that space and letting, letting me do that because, you know, I think as leaders, that is hard, it's, it's a hard thing to do. You want to bring people up and you want to mentor them, but, but we really also want to just have them sometimes do things the way that we just did it because that's most familiar to us. And so I think it's figuring out how to bring people up and develop them, but also helping them become their most authentic self and helping them run with, yeah, that's how you feel.

Okay. You know, let's, why don't you run with that? And giving them the space to make decisions and to get into stressful situations and to see how they do in those things. And so I guess I was just able to kind of put myself in more of those situations, the closer I kind of got to got to that level. I'll say the things won't say, Ryan, because he won't brag about him. That's what I was going to say, Sam.

I want to make you guys awkward a little bit and make and ask Sam and Bert, both of you to share the the actual greatness of each other, the great quality. So we can have a love fest for a second here. But but I'm not saying you're already about to do it. So I'll let you go. I was going to have Burke over. Bert, you got to go next. No, no.

I just, I just think it's important to know. Like what Bert hasn't said is he, he gives everything to his people in his charge. I mean, everything, every day, the guy gets up at 4 a.m. He writes letters to thousands of people across our organization. He speaks to them weekly on calls. He makes personal phone calls to people across our business all the time, day, night, weekends, doesn't matter. He is always thinking about the betterment of our business and people. And Glenn recognized that. you know, Glenn saw like there's no better selection than this man. You're doing it all the way, all the way along.

Like this didn't start when you became CEO. You were doing, I've seen you write the letters. I've seen all of this stuff. So this is, this is just a part of how you've always. Yeah, I think, I think it's not over. I mean, any leader that cares about, I mean, we, we care about developing people here. And so you just, you know, that's, that's, that's all throughout the organization. And so, yeah, we tried to kind of live by that and, you know, all along the different parts of our

leadership journeys. And Sam is no different. So, Bert, go ahead. Talk to me about, I have some feelings on him, too, because we've got to know each other really well over the past year plus. But what is it? Because Sam also recently promoted chief revenue officer now a massive responsibility, a huge, huge job, thousands of people reporting up through you, responsible for billions of dollars.

I mean, it's a lot. What is it about Sam that made you say, yeah, that's the guy to run the show to be our CRO that I trust to be in charge of basically our business. Yeah. So, I mean, Sam is super driven. I mean, super, super, super driven, incredible hard worker. But that's all, all that kind of stuff is I think table stakes. You've got to have those things once you get to this level.

So something that I also just really appreciate about him that I think any leader should be, when they're evaluating their leaders for big moments or for big roles. is how fearless Sam is. I gotta say that, can I say that? I wanna say the thing about Lana. Sure, go ahead. So, so. I just whispered to him, don't say the thing.

And he just said back, I'm gonna say the thing. So Sam had this, so Sam had this role. We came up together sort of in the company, but, but Sam at one point was running our DC market. And it was a really big job. It was one of our largest offices in the company, if not our largest. DC's always been like top three.

And Sam very much believed that we needed to kind of develop our own vertical that was different than anything we'd had before focused on government services. And the thought before had been a little too narrow-minded on, well, doesn't that just all happen out of D.C. and why do we need this whole extra vertical? It's just what you guys do in the D.C. office. It's really not like that way anywhere else. And Sam said, no, no, no, that's totally, that's not accurate. There's so much spin that goes on in government services outside of D.C. DC, not to mention state, local, and education. And Sam was so passionate about it that he took himself out of this job, super high profile, super important job, put him in this newer job. It was at best, a lateral move at best.

I mean, I kind of think it was a bit of a step down to do it again. I like to think of it as a promotion with no peck. I don't think it wasn't. I don't think it was that. But he can say that. So, but he stepped, but he was so passionate. He believed in taking on this other role for the company. And he stood it up and he did it.

And he chopped a bunch of wood, him and a lot of other leaders around him that he had selected and brought into it. Matt Edenbaum being one of them who's amazing. And now that division is, they're going to do over 500 million this year, right? And revenue. And this was four or five years ago that you guys started it. And so why I say same as fearless is that's really what I value a tremendous amount is somebody that is so convicted that isn't afraid to say, I don't care.

Fire me for all you want. This is what I believe is the right thing to do. I'm going to step into it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to will this thing to be successful. And I mean, Sam is there is nobody better in the company than him at that. I think the takeaway for anybody here is you see now the jobs you guys have as CEO and chief revenue officer, these big C-suite jobs.

You don't get them without working insanely hard, all right, as the table stakes, but also taking risk. And this was a big swing that could have backfired. And if so, I mean, I guess you could have, you could have hung on, but you also would have probably had this kind of a stain on you and your career within the company is he said that this is the way it would go and it would be awesome. He went out and we'd let him do it. You know, we said, okay, go for it. And then he fell on his face, which it sounds like there was very, that was a very real possibility in the eyes. Not only that, but I'll say this. There was a lot of opposition. I mean, there was opposition in the company at the highest levels to say you shouldn't do this.

This is a dead idea. You shouldn't chase this. And that's the more impressive thing. It's not like, okay, well, we're all supporting you. And if you fail, don't worry, here's a safety net. It's not only like, I don't know how this is going to go. It's like, I think it's a bad idea. And look, sometimes as leaders, you have decisions like that that you have to make.

It's just, I wish there were a better way. I wish we could tell the future, but we just can't. And so you have to be close enough to the customer or to the action or to knowing exactly what's going on the ground to get convicted enough to make those decisions. Sam, what was it at that time? If you can take us back that led you to be so convicted, was it just to the belief in yourself and your willingness to work? I know from what you told me you're on airplanes a lot during that time when you're trying to build it. Like what was it that said, you know, I want to take this swing. I want to do this.

Yeah, well, Bert mentioned a gentleman named Matt Edenbaum, and he was on my sales team in Washington, D.C. at the time, and Matt was really teaching us how to sell our services differently in that market. And we were doing amazing because of it. And so it was so clear to us that this was the way forward, and we were only doing it in Washington, D.C. So number one, it was my partner, Matt, who had this vision to take this further. my conviction was just knowing how much extra market was out there. So anybody could have told us this is a bad idea, and I would have laughed at them too and gone and done it, because it was, it had to be done, and we knew that it was the right thing to do. And I also, I mean, we've talked about this a lot. I think sales is the most noble thing you can do. And putting yourself in a challenging position is the most wonderful thing you can do for your

career because, you know, if you want a special career, do hard things with people you love. That's the definition of it for me. And so when Matt and I were like, you want to get together and just like build something from scratch that nobody else is willing to do, I was like, let's go, man. This is going to be the best few years of our lives. And it was incredible. And now we have a whole organization of people that have perpetuated that division and have grown it to new heights and are doing more unbelievable things than ever. And they're way better than me and Matt were. And it's just really cool to see all the opportunity that's created.

And especially since we promote from within, we just keep seeing more and more people grow and do special things in government services. So it's really rewarding. I love it. We mentioned promote from within a number of times. And Sam, during our very first call, remember this was a topic of, we basically only promote from within, within Insight Global.

and that's why Bert's going to get a coach. I'm getting a coach. And I believe Tim Stutz was going to get a coach. There may be others as well. The senior people were going to get coaches. Can you share a little bit more about, Bert, you can start here with the mindset that and the philosophy of that you basically only promote from within. So everyone that is at a senior level now at some point was an entry level person. Yeah.

Yeah, I know it's awesome. It's really a freeing thing to latch on to and to kind of open your, open your mind up to the possibility of it. Just because it's like the ultimate growth mindset move. I mean, we just, what we fundamentally believe here is that people can learn things. And really, I think anybody can learn anything. Now, the caveat is that it's really hard work. I mean, you're going to really have to work hard. You're going to have to get in early.

You're going to have to stay late. You're going to really, really have to care a lot about that. But look, I mean, we're in staffing. So it's not like we're putting people on the moon here. You know, and I really think a lot of companies, while they're noble professions, like I believe ours is, they're not putting people on the moon and they're not doing brain surgery. So I think a lot of people can learn stuff. And, and, you know, we run very hard here.

And we've been able to experience a lot of growth. And like I said, it's been organic. And we've been able to do it off of a bunch of, you know, people that were hired as recruiters that didn't know anything. And so it's because they just came in with a real conviction and a real hunger to learn things. And so now that's that's great. But what companies have to do well and where I think a lot of companies missed up this, I know because we missed up to ourselves is in not investing enough in training and development and to think, oh, that's somebody else's job or we'll just barely commit to it. And we were that way for a lot of years as we were really

scaling. And it wasn't until 2018 when we really took a hard look at that. built out what is now in Cycle, Global University and Leadership Academy and all these things that we have now. And we love spending money on that stuff. In fact, as we pull people out of the field to become trainers, we have this saying, we say it needs to hurt, right? Like, you need to be like, if we're talking about a new trainer for a new class, we should, it should be painful. It should sting. It should be like, oh, we can't get that person up because they're too good. That's the person that that you need to add. And yeah, if you lead to that type of a mindset, you can really train people to do anything here.

You know, that said, you know, we still look for in our technical departments, like within IT, I mean, we still look to go out and hire the best and the brightest for those, those skill sets that we can't exactly teach or it would take too long to teach. And then the other thing is, and Sam already alluded to it with getting a coach, is that if you are going to build that culture of promote from within, you better know that while that's good, that does make you very insulated. And so you've got to really put. yourself in positions to bring in a ton of diversity of thought as much as you can so that you

don't just become one big echo chamber. And speaking of the investment in Insight Global University and Leadership Academy, I know I'm one of those investments. And partnering with the Learning Leaders Show brand and us coming together is part of that. In addition to now at the beginning of every episode and in the artwork and things that we're going to do together, by the way, had an incredible call, Bert earlier today with the culture and development and the marketing team. I mean, those people say, him blew me away. Sam was on the call earlier. But I just thought I've never seen anything like this with the professional touch and care and thought they've all, they've put into this announcement.

And what we're going to do is just super exciting for me. But, you know, I know. Lots of Ryan Hawk fans in the company. Well, I mean, it, by the way, just to note, Sam sent out a note, I know it to, to a number of people within the company and said some really nice things. And all of a sudden, my phone has never been more active in the last since Sam has sent that because people have been so, so kind. And for those who are listening, I'm so grateful for them.

And it really is such a fulfilling and great feeling when people not only say like, hey, I'm pumped to have you, but they're, there's really specific in their praise. And that's a big deal to me. like they're they they mention episodes they mention why they're so excited about this and that's that that's an awesome awesome feeling but i want to get to actually like like getting inside putting this together so i'll lay the the groundwork and then i want you guys to talk about it because the one of the cool things about this for me was the speed because to me speed equals trust i had the one of the cubbies on who wrote the speed of trust and and trust decreases transaction cost as general

McChrystal told me on this podcast and that is evident in this story so I want to set the stage and then have you guys share too so I'll tell the whole thing Sam if you guys are comfortable I'm not going to know yeah go for some of the names involved but but a a pretty I would say a pretty good CEO of a Silicon Bay based Silicon Valley based company reached out to me with with the thought of of potentially him him and I and his company working together and partnering and I never really thought of that and I thought well this is interesting and what he laid out was was pretty cool and I remember Sam has become now one of my friends mentors I know I technically played the role of the coach for him but I learned just as

much or more from him than he learns from me and so I thought I need to there's there's only like a few people I want to reach out to to ask about like what do they think about this and it was purely why so I called sam remember I'm like hey man you are a forward thinking person your fresh set of ears what do you think of this and I kind of laid out the future of companies and media and the fact that they're going to want to partner with content creators and people who have built really good platforms and so this this company is going to hire writers and some podcasters in the next 12 to 18 months and so I asked Sam, and I remember you said, well, oh, that's really cool. Like, congrats. You've earned it, man.

And like, that's really awesome. But, you know, maybe you should open it up and look to companies like Accenture and Bain and McKinsey. Like maybe you should, you should bring them into the mix because they would be, they could potentially maybe be a better fit from this other company. And I'm like, oh, that's a good point. And I think it was a Thursday or Friday, Sam, I believe I called. Yeah. So we have our calls on Monday morning. I remember I'm getting ready for the call and what the set agenda that we're going to go through and the work that we had to do.

And I remember we connected on Zoom. And you go, hey, man, hold on. I have something on my mind that I just have not been able to stop thinking about over the entire weekend. And I remember thinking, like, is he going to fire me? Like, what happened here? Because, you know, I'm always wondering about the value I bring. Like, it's just so the productive paranoia is very strong. And so I'm thinking, what is he about to say?

I think you even had kind of a dramatic pause. And then you said, I know I told you on Friday. to look at Accenture or Bain or these other places, uh, F all that. You need to come work with us. I think I, I think I said that was,

that was a stupid thought. I have a better idea. You said, you, I'm like, what do you even mean? I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, why don't you do that here? And I thought, uh, well, and then we kind of wanted to how that could potentially work out and what that would even look like. And this was,

this was just a couple days after the initial phone call. And then, it was a Tuesday, Bert, because I know my daughter has practices on soccer practice on Tuesday night, a matter of practice. And after practice, I look at it. And I see I have a voicemail and I see that it's from you. As I had your number of my phone from our conversation about Sam. And if you guys want, I'm going to play the actually the voicemail that you left for me, right. Okay. Well, I'll have to edit this out if it doesn't play well here, which is fine. Okay, let me find it. Here you go. Okay.

for being at InSyclable. Hope we're doing well. Hey man, I know Sam spoke to you earlier this week about a possible opportunity. Just would love to talk to you about it. If you have any questions, what my vision was on maybe be an opportunity. And talk about what's possible. Give me a call back. No rush.

I was like, it sounds kind of rushed. That's what we call bad negotiating skills right there. Yeah, I'm pretty motivated. And I remember thinking, huh, wow, this is cool. And I did after practice, I remember I called you later that night and we had a really good talk. And the reason I share kind of the how that story came together is because it all started coming together in like four days. And that includes a weekend where we're all with our families. Right.

And I think that that to me is really is a really cool part about how these types of things can come together is certainly Sam and I have built a relationship. and Bert, you and I have built one too on a different level because we don't talk as much as Sam and I have. But I just love to hear from both your perspectives. Maybe Bert, you can go first since it was your voice around. And then Sam, you can talk more about your thinking from the beginning of the idea or me. In your case, Bert, Sam, coming to you with the idea and then of how and why you wanted this to come together so quickly. Yeah, well, for me, I mean, we just love aligning ourselves with. people that really get after with grinders kind of like yourself so that's

first and foremost like that's that's cool like maybe this idea isn't all the way baked yet but I mean Ryan Hock is gonna figure that out and we're gonna figure it out we both work really hard so that's a safe bet but also I just I mean I said it earlier but I just I loved being able to tap into into your perspective Ryan you've you've talked to almost 500 probably more than 500 leaders and you just have I think a lot of wonderful perspective and wisdom that you could bring our organization. And also help us be a bit more known.

I mean, you've got a heck of a following, and I think that certainly helps. And yeah, I guess why that voicemail sounded a bit rushed is I love being a bad negotiator. Like, I love that. I love not caring about that kind of stuff. Because if there's, I mean, my trust in Sam is marrow deep. Okay. And so I didn't know you as well, but I trust Sam. And yeah, you can see how this could probably work.

It's not that that hard of a leap. Really good guy out here that has, you know, really good access into a lot of strong leaders. Also as a strong leader himself. There's a lot that we can learn from him. So let's make this happen right away. And let's not get caught up into details. And let's just come right out and say what we really mean here.

And let's get it done. So that's kind of how I love approaching situations kind of like that. What about you, Sam? I mean, Bert said it perfectly with the grinder. I would have said, like, I just from the second we worked together, Ryan, I could see that you are hungry to grow and hungry to learn. That's the predication of your entire being is you're hungry to learn leadership and bring it to the greater world. And that's exactly what we are. That's exactly what we are.

I mean, we have thousands of people in our business. We only promote from within. We have desperately got to learn how to develop. leaders and be hungry to learn as leaders and humble ourselves to know that we have so much work to do in leadership. And so, you know, when I hung up the phone with you that Faithful Thursday, where I told you to go look elsewhere, I just thought of that all weekend. I just kept thinking he's so hungry to learn and so are we. And like, this is just, this makes too much sense. Why would we not bring our brands together and bring our minds together and find a way to partner?

And so, you know, I just respect you for being someone who is humble and knows that there's so much to learn and you're hungry to learn. And I love that you want to create these moments to bring it to the world. Like all I want to do in our business is create those moments for our people. And so, you know, anything we can do to create those moments for our people is, you know, like, you said that's the juice that's where that's where the things happen that are the most special um and the fact that you want to bring that to the world and we do as well is just like we have to do this together so you know welcome to insight global and four days after idea well at the next meeting i believe uh the three of us are going to connect on video to kind of talk through like what okay

we're we're kind of we kind of want to do this what does this look like i remember we connected and you guys are as the video came on bert you're wearing an Atlanta Braves hat you're you're chilling, Sam, you guys were laughing, joking, which is very normal for when we connect, which I love. And I think it was at one point in the middle of the last part. I'm like, well, you know, so how does this all work? Like, I don't know the details. And, and Bert, you go, I don't know, dude. Like, when's the last time I did a deal with a podcaster? I don't, like, we'll figure it out. You go, we'll figure it out. And then we, you know, we briefly talked about money and those things. And I was like, that sounds good. You're like, okay, good. And then that was that.

And then we just kind of, wait, wait, who do you report to? How do we do this? Oh, we'll figure that. And I just like the kind of the fact of like, we don't, we just want to work together. And we will get all that other stuff figured out. It's about us bringing, bringing, bringing what we have together to try to help one another and how cool that could be. And I think that, that aspect of it to me, because I think you guys take your work extremely seriously. and you take, you take caring about people, you care, it seems to me that that is number one on

your list, you know, starting with your families, but then right there is, is the people that that you serve at Insight Global. But you also, you don't take yourselves that seriously. And those are my favorite kind of people where they can make fun of themselves. Sam is constantly hard on himself on every time that we talk. He's always criticizing himself about how he messed something up, about what he needs to do better. And I know, Bert, you're the same way. But, but, But then you work so hard. And when you talk to other people who interact with you, all they talk about us, how much you care and how hard you work

and how it's all about serving people. And that to me was like, this seems like a really good match here because this is what I'm all about when it comes to leadership. Yeah, and we're just, you know, I think, I think people psyched themselves out way more than they need to, especially leaders, especially new leaders, I know, because I was one and I used to do it to myself. But once you can get comfortable with the fact that, you know, commit to your values and our values are all around developing our people as strong as we can to grow personally, professionally, and financially so they can be the light to the world around them. Okay, if that's where we are, that's our purpose, right?

And we've got our shared values that we're obsessive about. If there's decisions like bringing you on board that really fit in nicely with that, because you're going to help us develop our people. If you help us fulfill that purpose, then don't get so caught. up in the minutia of all the, it's okay to build the airplane as you're learning how to fly it, I think. And that really lets people, I think, move a lot faster. Yeah. The other thing. I would also, sorry, right. I would also just add like our mentality in everything is, is, is, is, it's first who, then what. You know, that's that's really like, I think a lot of companies, most companies, um, you, you want to find someone that has the experience.

You're looking for the right experience. Because of our mentality and the forced promote from within model, we don't have that luxury. So we just look for potential, you know, and that's like our biggest characteristic that we look for is hunger, eager potential. And that's like when I think about what you're doing, you know, that's everything that your work embodies. So it's just another representation, I think, of how we run our business, which is, you know, it's eager over experienced. And I think one of the things I really appreciate in addition to that, Sam, is both you guys have been effusive in the comments about me keeping a sort of independence and being out in the

marketplace in order to continue learning, recording podcasts, giving keynote speeches, facilitating leadership circles. So none of that changes because you value that aspect. And that meant a lot to me to say, yes, hey, you have complete, complete creative control over your podcast because that's, that's what you've built. And we love that. And then you bring what you're learning into our company,

but you do still need to be out there in the marketplace out learning so that you could bring it to us. Maybe you could speak on that bird because that part was really, important to me and the fact that you you I think said it before I did that you wanted that and I felt I felt I felt really good about that aspect of it yeah I mean I value I always value fresh eyes you know in in fresh perspective and so that could be detrimental if you spent too much time thinking just like we do and there you're just one of us you're one of us idiots don't become one of us yeah don't do that you know like so no you know you stay you stay unique and special um so yeah

I think it's important to that you are able to stay frosty, if you will, and to maintain all those relationships that you have and to stay in the outside world. And then, yeah, we can, you know, we'll find the ways to pull that insight into our company. But that's so valuable. And I mean, we're always thinking about how do we look at our business with fresh eyes? How do we look at our business from a different way? I think Adam Grant just wrote a book. his newest book is called Rethink. I want to read it because I think it talks about that.

But that is like such a valuable skill. I think if you can develop a way to constantly look at an obsessive of your business with fresh perspective and fresh eyes. Yeah. Well, I certainly appreciate that part of it. And I think one of the things I wanted to mention, because as you took over, I know I'd have to say this because you wouldn't, but the dramatic change that the company has made since you've, become CEO. I believe I read that your turnover rate was 40%. It might have been even higher was 40%. And then just two or three years after you becoming CEO, it was down to 16% if those numbers are accurate. And that, that's, that's a really an insane number of drop. And it's really fast.

This answer is part of the why insight global question to me, because when you see those stats, those are those are the facts my question is how and why what what did they do in order to change that number what was it about the turnover being so high and now to being a much more manageable number and just a dramatic improvement from when you when you became CEO yeah so we you know i'll try to be somewhat tight with this answer because it's a it's a it's a big answer but you know we were no different from a lot of sales organizations and that we were command of control and we believed in metrics and, you know, all sorts of monitoring systems. And we, we worked really hard and drove people even harder.

And turnover is 40%. No big deal. Those people couldn't cut it and they don't, you know, they can't handle it. But we just, I think we, well, we, when I became CEO, the weight of that started to really wear on me. And I didn't like it. I did not like it at all. I didn't want to have that.

And I just wanted to be a place where everybody could actually stay and do well. And I think that was really who I wanted to be. And so, but, you know, in order to kind of solve this and figure out, like, how do we even drop this? How do we become, I guess, a kinder company or a company that values development more and values keeping people here more? You know, I asked my executive coach, I was like, I've got all this turnover. How do we change this? And this is like in my, this is like right after I listened to your podcast. And he was like, well, let me just ask you, bro, like, what are your guys values?

And I was like, yeah, we don't, I mean, we don't really have those. Maybe I'll Google some. And we actually did it. We really didn't have values that were just on the forefront of everybody's brain. And so I felt this need to want to just push away from everything and get somewhere with the top leaders in the company is 28 of us, actually all in total, and really figure some stuff out and really try to figure out who we were as a company. And so I found a house in the middle of nowhere in Utah, because I love the American West. And we called this three days. We called it Compass. And it was a chance

for us to really do some serious, deep-rooted company planning as to what is our purpose, what are our values, what do we stand for, and that sort of thing. So gave everybody a signed reading. They had to read the Jim Collins book, Great Black Choice, which was awesome. And everybody had to come up with their own smack recipe. What should we be specific, methodical, and consistent? out and all that kind of stuff. But before we got into that, I wanted us to get in a big circle and I wanted everybody to go around the room and to share their lowest moment in their career and their proudest moment in their career. And the way these things typically go is everybody goes, you can call it a vulnerability exercise that they go into them with like a PG-13 rated

version of what they're going to say, but also like a rated R version. And like you're not going to say the rated R version, but you know what that is, but it's there. But you're, you got the safe PG-13 thing. And whichever version you go with is dependent on who goes first, which has to be the leader. So I went first. I shared the rated-dard version of my lowest moment in my career. And then everybody else went.

And this funny thing happened. Like everybody cried multiple, multiple, multiple times. And I mean, we started at like, I don't know, 2 p.m. And we went to like 3 a.m. And it was just wild. It was insane. And I mean, you heard people share things that they had never shared. shared before struggles that they had.

And then from across the room, you would hear somebody share or say, you know, I've struggled with that same thing and I got your back and you never have to walk that lonely walk again. And it was just, it was, it was really unbelievable. So as you might imagine that the next day, we were so centered and knew exactly who we wanted to be and we cranked out our shared values in like 30 minutes. It was the, it was super easy because we knew exactly who we weren't what that was all about. And so we left there and, you know, we had all these ideas swirling and we,

created like the very beginnings of what maybe inside global university could be and all this stuff. And so we didn't know what to do with it. So we just said, okay, every leader that was there, you need to do a compass with your people. And then have those leaders do compasses with their people. And so now the whole company has been through a compass. You know, COVID messed us up a little bit, but at least one, if not two of them. We try to do one a year. And it was just been a really great way to become more known to one another and to work on tough problems together.

And one of our shared values is everyone matters. Another one is we take care of each other. And I think both of those embody what we want to be about. And turnover just doesn't really, it's hard to be all about everyone matters. And we take care of each other. If we're just cool with 40% turnover, like that just doesn't fit. And so we're like, okay, well, yeah, let's just, let's just change the model. And I tell you what, Angela Duckworth's book, Grit, highly recommend it.

She, it's so funny how you can read books. And there'll be like a line and some that just changes everything. And for hers, it was, she was talking about West Point, she studied. West Point got this new superintendent, General Westmoreland. And their dropout rate for first year cadets was like super high. And they also sort of were like, well, it is what it is. You know, this is West Point after all, right? Well, Westmoreland was like, actually, what if we just move to more of a developmental model?

And if somebody isn't picking it up, let's just give them more training and development. and let's just make them better and keep them here. And so we were like, yeah, let's just do that. And that just gave us a ton of gas in the tank to just change our mindset away from things like performance plans or growth plans, which we don't use. And say if somebody's underperforming, well, let's just train them harder. Let's just invest more in training and development. And let's train and train and so long as they embody your share values, and by the way,

one of those is high character and hard work above all else. Well, so long as they have that, and as long as they're willing to train. train, well, let's just keep doing this because, again, we're not putting people on the moon here. Okay. And, and so, yeah, that's, that's how we've been able to lower turnover to, it's actually, it's under 14% today. Wow. But still keep our salespeople and our recruiters super productive.

Because you've also grown a, where were you, like revenue growth-wise since that? Well, that, yeah, we were 1.9 billion and 17. And this year, we'll do just north of 3.3 billion. Not bad. Sam, what about you? You've talked about this offsite and we've talked about it multiple times. It was sounds like one for the ages. I wish it was recorded or there was a video camera, but maybe it wouldn't have been a special if it was. But can you share about that moment and from your perspective? Because another risky thing that Bert did, it could have been a flop and

people could have laughed at it. Like, what is this guy doing? Is he weird? Yeah. It could have easily happened. I think people I remember when he invited me, us. I came into his office. I was like, what are we doing? What is this? Why are we going? It like was so... Because you hadn't done anything like this before. We'd never done anything like this. In fact, it was like, you know, we had a culture of A time versus B time. Like, you don't do anything in A time besides, you know, deliver for your clients. I mean, eight to five, we got to sell. And Burt was like, we're going to go to Utah for three days. And I was like, mind blown over this idea. But it was, it was powerful.

You know, a gentleman who is one of our vice presidents here, his name's Kirby Style, he passed away. He came and it was, it was our last time really spending time with him, but it meant so much to him to come because he, I think he knew that, you know, it was getting bad, real bad. And he wanted to hear from,

He wanted us to hear from him specifically that we were going to do great things together. And it, you know, it chokes me up right now just thinking about it. But, you know, he had a broken neck. He could barely hold his head up. His cancer had eaten his body. But he found the strength to come to our event to tell us that we had each other and that's all we needed in this world. And for our executive team, you know, that's a moment where you just, you're just not going to

forget that one. And you're not going to look him in this world. the eye after he did what he did and say, yeah, I probably just won't work hard for the next few years. I mean, we all came out of that, you know, saying we will do everything that we've always promised you, we will do and more. And that's why our company believes in grit. And that's why we think that grit is one of the most important parts of our culture. And we believe in a sales culture, you know, if you're a person that can get up off the mat every single time, you are unstoppable. And we celebrate grit. We cherish it as part of our culture. That's why one of our values is high character and hard work above all else. And, you know, it's an important part of our entire organization. And it came straight from from Kirby's blood. And so, you know, we're really just proud of that. And we know that we're representing him every day of our lives as we work. And, you know, it's really important to us. I love it, man. What a leader. I, uh,

the other aspect of the company i've found as i've talked to more people is that you are your social lives and professional lives are very intertwined uh your friends with a lot of your co-workers i think you and tim stuts live near each other when he called me to tell me how excited he was about this about me coming uh with with you guys which tim was awesome by the way i mean so many people where he was great he's like oh yeah sam's daughter is swimming with my daughter in my pool right now like it's It's just like a very normal thing. Can you share more about that aspect of it, that that that seems to be, because some people are like, I don't know, we should do that. But it doesn't. Well, that's, yeah. Talk about an unintended consequence of promotions from within. Okay, we're a 20 year old business. Us all that started this business and built it together. We do life together. That's the coolest part of this whole thing. And that's why I said before, that's what I think makes it so special is it's we do hard work together with people we love.

And when you spend 17 years together and you grow up together, you spend your 20s together, and you get married together, and you attend each other's weddings, and then you have babies together, and you raise your kids together. It's awesome. I mean, it's just, it's truly, we'd never, 17 years ago, we would have never thought, let's do this promotion from within model because we'll get to do life together. But now that we're here, it's so cool. And now we get to show a thousand more people that are just starting their careers with us,

that that's a path that they can now follow. And I just think that's the coolest thing to show people is like, do life together with people you really love and want to work hard with. Surround yourself with great people. And you're going to have a great life. I want to one thing I like to ask, especially guys in your position, you guys are, you've been promoted multiple times and you're also promoting other. you're making hiring decisions.

And I'm curious to get from both of your perspectives. And maybe Sam will start with you. What are some of your must have leadership qualities in a person to either get hired or in your case, promote somebody into a leadership role? Yes. I mean, we've probably talked about a lot of it. I use the mantra care character serve is a pretty easy one for me. Say it again?

I know it's intuitive to you now, but that's just, yeah. Care character. serve. And, and, you know, what I really ask people when we're going to promote someone is, you know, tell me a story of how they care about others. You know, I love to hear that someone invested their time in someone that was, love, love, love promoting people that do work that is outside of their core responsibilities for the development of others. You tell me a story like that. I know you care. Like, why would you ever have done that otherwise? So look for care, look for character. Are they a good person, do the people around them respect them? We usually say, you know, do they have the

respect of their peers? I think that shows a lot of character. And then and then serve is just, are they a servant based leader? You know, do they think about leadership? You know, bad leadership promotions are ones where they see it as power. Good leadership, you know, promotions to me are ones where they see it as burden and responsibility and servant. And so if they have those things, I'm pretty much guaranteed to be a two thumbs up on that promotion. Love it. Bert. You. I mean, that's pretty perfect. Yeah.

We all think the same. It's the echo chamber. Yeah. So I'll say it maybe slightly differently. This is how I feel about it. And this is kind of what I always think about that I don't want to be. And so we want to make sure that we don't have these leaders in the company. And the simplest, sorry, part of my language, but the simplest way I can think to say it is, you just can't be a bullshit leader. Like you got to really mean it when we say,

okay, now your job is to really take care of those people that are in your charge and develop them. You've got to believe that with every fiber of your being, you know, you've got to be so real when it comes to the way you work and how you operate and how you pour into your craft and into your people. And you just have got to be so authentic and we just don't have any time at all for fakers,

for people that just aren't that just as Sam. I just want to be promoted because, boy, my LinkedIn status gets helped out by that. And that's fun. And I get some power and some influence and that's cool. You know, but through the interview process, through getting to know this person, you got to make sure that they are not a BS leader. Well said. I really love it.

The, you mentioned shared values a few times. Could you, could you guys go over and how they came together real quick? I just want to actually list them. be in and share the importance of each one if you if you guys be comfortable i'd love to just to close with the shared values yes i'll do this kind of kind of quickly so uh the first one was was we wanted to be a company where everyone matters and where that comes from is we are we're a sales organization we're a staffing company that has most mostly salespeople in it but over the years that had gotten to where we've become a little to sales and frontline obsessed and we had taken our eye off

of the incredible importance of our recruiting organization or our corporate operations folks that like pay all over contractors and stuff. And we didn't like that. And we wanted to make sure that number one, you know, while people have different jobs and some jobs are harder than others, we're going to take everybody into consideration as we plan for the future and make decisions. So that's everyone matters. We take care of each other is my favorite shared value. And we just wanted to be that company that forget what you're supposed to do and precedent. And I'm like, let's just lean in to really take care of our people, where we, any step of the way. So we, we didn't do layoffs last year because you'd have to fire me,

right? And they didn't want to fire me. So we didn't do layoffs because we decided, well, let's just lean in and take care of each other. We were able to grow 8% because of that last year. And as the staffing firm in a recession, you know, we were very proud of that. But we want our people to think of the company as, you know, they may not, we may not, we may not be able to control people's personal lives and what goes on there and help them there. But if they are facing one of life's personal storms, we want to be the place that they can anchor to. So that's we take care of each other.

Leadership is here to serve. That that's very simple for us because, again, we promote from within. And so we want to be a company full of player coaches. We want to be, have leaders that are not afraid to get in the trenches and do the hard work alongside our people. Now high care, or hard work above all else.

This is sort of what we call that the lynchman of the shared values. it's hard for everyone to matter. It's hard for us to take care of each other. It's hard for leadership to serve the people if the people don't have high character and hard work above all else. And then the last one, and this is super personal for a lot of us

that read the first compass, was this idea of always know where you stand, which is the fifth share value, always know where you stand. As we thought about a lot of our lowest moments in our careers, you know, it was when, Ryan, we weren't maybe performing that well and we sort of knew it,

but nobody was really leveling with us. And that's like an awful place to be in because you sort of know like, I don't this isn't going well. But I, nobody's telling me, am I about to get demoted, fired? What's happening here? And we know that's a big check to write, but we don't care. That's the kind of company we are. We want our people to know that of this company, while it may be on their responsibility to initiate, you will always know where you stand. Love it.

I think I want to close actually with with one piece that I've been doing recently. And I think it plays well because a lot of the people that are higher to Insight Global are fresh out of college or close to that stage. And I read some stats that Insight Global rated by Fortune is one of the best places in the country to work for millennials and for women, which is cool as well as 70% of leadership promotions in 2019 were for women, increased total female representation. and leadership 60%. So really cool. I know Sam, you're your, both you guys are heavily involved in the, I think the promotion of diversity and it's really important to the company as well as with with young people. It's a good place to work for for millennials. Can you guys talk more? Maybe Sam, since you're leading this now, this could be something you start with invert, share. Feel free to add on if there's anything else you'd like in regard to this because I know this is a

big time. It's very important for you guys. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, diversity, equity, and inclusion is, I mean, we've talked about it actually throughout this entire discussion when you talk about diversity of thought, you know, that's that's what we're talking about. We're talking about culture. You're talking about religion. You're talking about upbringing. You're talking about where you came from. You're talking about your childhood, where your perspectives are. diversity of thought is something that you've got to really cherish. And so diversity, equity, and inclusion, you know, for us is something that we didn't prioritize for a long time. And Burt really was like, this needs to be a huge priority. And this was actually a couple years ago. This was not a

2020 reactionary measure for Burt. This was a, I care about this and I want this. And we're going to, we're going to all care about this. And so I think that's the number one thing that I would share is that we're not doing it because of pressures from the outside or shifts in our world. We're doing it because it's the right thing to do for people. Our purpose is to be the light to the world around us. And this is just one of many ways we get to do that. And so I'm proud to be able to be a part of leading that forward in our

organization. We have plenty of work to do to be at the place where we want to be. But we are making significant progress every single month in the past couple years. And I'm really proud of the work we're doing. Yeah. And I think, you know, just your point on millennials, I guess, I mean, I think I'm technically, I was born in 82. So I think I'm a millennial. I think I just made the cut. I'll let you qualify. I'm missing. Yeah, anyone in the 80s, which we're all, I think, in there, right? where anyone born in the 80s is it qualifies. So, but so why, why I think why millennials like it is because we just fundamentally believe that you can hear, right?

I remember going through the interview process and being so annoyed that I didn't have experience and so I couldn't get hired somewhere. And it's like, well, yeah, somebody's got to hire me so I can get the experience so I can get the job. I don't have experience. I'm sorry, but I have this thing called grit. I've got work ethic and I care. And, you know, this was the only place I found.

that seem to really value those things. And so, yeah, what we've seen is that, you know, millennials, I think they get a bad rap. They just want the same thing that I want, that they want an opportunity. And so we say, yeah, look, if you have experience, we'll take it. I mean, don't get it. If you got experience, that is nice. But you don't absolutely have to have it. And so what we care about is, are you passionate? Do you have a great work ethic? Can you be coach? Can you learn? Do you have grit? And I got to tell you, I think, I think a lot of the different minority communities out there, they've got a lot of grit, and they've got a lot of passion, and they've got a lot of enthusiasm, and they need somebody

to just give them an opportunity. And so what we say to the veteran or to the first generation immigrant or to the person from an underserved community is, yeah, bring that grit to Insight Global and let us show you how to absolutely kill it here. I love it. And I'm pumped to bring everything I have to it as well. And that's all of everything that you guys talked about. And I think now for people who weren't aware of of you guys and Insight Global, you get an understanding of why I wanted to do this.

Because of all of what you stand for, your shared values, the way that it's not, they're not just words, that they're actions and beliefs and behaviors, which is, that's really what values are all about to me. The words are important, but the actions are far more important. And that's what you guys and the entire company embodies. I got to come down to Atlanta and hang out at one of Sam's happy hours. after we hung out for a day. And it's like every person. It's like one after another. I'm like,

these are the type of people I'd want to hang out with. These type of people I'd want to work really hard with. And so just to both you guys, I'm really grateful for this opportunity and excited about, about all the cool things that we can do. And it's just the beginning. So it's really neat. And I just want to say thank you so much for it.

Brian. Thank you. Absolutely. All right. Thanks, guys. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Ryan.

So that was pretty fun. I get this great sense of gratitude after having a conversation like that with Bert and Sam. There's such good guys who care so much about people. And I am pumped to work with them and to partner with them moving forward. But I also get this great sense of gratitude for you, for listening. And not only doing that, but then spreading. the message and telling friends and writing reviews and doing all the things that help a show like mind grow from zero listeners six and a half years ago to now millions of people being

impacted all over the world and that is just wild to think about and I'm grateful for you for doing that and because this opportunity does not happen without you listening and sharing and I hope you continue to do that. This partnership with Sam and Burt will only strengthen this show. Nothing will change other than the fact that I will just continually try to get better and better at it so that it adds more value to your life. And so that it's so good that you'll want to share it with other people

because that's how these things grow. And when I think through some of the topics of conversations, I could literally go through all of my notes, but I'll pull out a few that really, I think were pretty cool. I just think Sam and Bert are driven by their shared values. And the powerful story of Kirby, it's a leader that Sam and I have talked about over the years where he showed up at that first offsite to do his best to impart his wisdom before he unfortunately passed away.

And I've witnessed Sam and Bert live these values through one of the most challenging years in the company's history. Going through the pandemic and sending everybody home. They're a company that's big on having people together. Just built a beautiful new office in Atlanta and then immediately had to send everybody home. And they live their values. As Bert mentioned, they didn't lay a single person off even though they faced great challenges and still happen. to grow. And then Sam's three must-haves and a leader, care, character, and serve. And they don't see leadership as power, but as a burden and a responsibility. So good. And then this to me, again,

is a great reminder that you can love your colleagues, love the place you work, you can do life together. You can have fun. You could love one another and still grow a great profitable business at the same time. In fact, all of those reasons are why they've been able to grow an awesome business and turn to profit and keep their shareholders so happy. And to me, that's inspiring. It is awesome to see a company like this do what they've done with these fantastic leaders and great teammates that they work with. And they're truly living proof that this is possible. So I hope it inspires you as much as it inspires me.

Again, I'm so grateful for you for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two and writing reviews on Apple Podcasts and rating the show. All of that helps so much. And because you do that, I'm continually getting to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk with you soon. Can't wait. Thank you.