The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 438: Jay Williams - How To Reinvent Yourself (Life Is Not An Accident)

Episode Date: September 26, 2021

Text LEARNERS to 44222 for more... Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12    https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Jay Williams is known as one of the greatest college basketball players of all time. At Duke, Jay won the Naismith College Player of the Year award, won the 2001 National Championship, and had his #22 retired. He was the second overall pick by the Chicago Bulls in the 2002 NBA draft. Now Jay works as a basketball analyst for ESPN, hosts a radio show, and is actively involved as an investor in the business world. Notes: Jay starts by describing the terrifying night when he wrecked his motorcycle which led to the end of his playing career… Coach K flew a private plane to be with Jay in the hospital right after his motorcycle accident. He gave him a rosary and said, "you're going to give that back to me when you play again." Jay learned a valuable leadership lesson in that moment. Great leaders create hope. They give people something to strive for. "He gave me a reference point to look forward to." Communication: As a leader, you need to initiate a conversation with each person you're leading. You can't just lead one generic way. You need to get to know each person for who they are. Ask questions about them. Get to know them. Jay's mom said, "Life isn't interpreted by headlines." There is context to things. Jay learned from his mom to have a drive for knowledge and education. Legacy: "Impact is what I want my life to be." Coach K: "I was coached by one of the great minds at coaching life. He's a life leader." "I chose Duke because I wanted to be a king among kings." When Jay got drafted by the Chicago Bulls, he asked to have Michael Jordan's locker. It had not been used by anyone until that moment. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown." Preparation process - It never turns off. Always working on preparing for his work. Jay Bilas called all the prep the parachute. You don't want to need it, but you know it's there in case you get stuck. While at Duke, Jay decorated his body with tattoos, quotations, and symbols that meant far more later on. On his right leg, he inked the Chinese symbol for sacrifice; on his right arm, two hands clasped together, praying, next to the words "To err is human. To forgive is divine." He also added this, from Gandhi: "Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." Jay graduated in 3 years: He majored in sociology, graduated early, and turned professional after his junior season. For his final thesis paper, he studied athletes who left college early, their backgrounds, why they failed or succeeded. Kobe - "A relentless pursuit to be the best." "Don't F with me, I'm in killer mode." "He crystalized those fruits that translate to things off the court too." Career advice: Appreciate your position while planning your promotion. Be excellent at your current role while also thinking about what could be next

If you're not living your life with passion and what's your purpose, right? Are you just floating? Are you just somebody who's there? I think we all know a lot of people who are just there. And that's not said in a malicious way. What happens is life will constantly throw things at you. And if you allow life to dictate what your tempo is, then you'll constantly be going. And you'll look down and be like, where am I?

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seeing the responses that my dad has given to these questions. In fact, I'm learning so much about him and his life that I didn't know before, which is amazing considering how much we talk. And so I would urge you to give your loved ones the gift of spending time together wherever you lived with Storyworth. Get started right away with no shipping required by going to storyworth.com slash leader. You'll get $10 off your first purchase. That's storyworth.com slash leader. Welcome to the Learning Leader Show, presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk.

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Now, on to tonight's featured leader, a great one. It's Jay Williams, known as one of the greatest college basketball players of all time. At Duke, he won the Naismith College College. Player of the Year Award, won the 2001 National Championship, and had his number 22 retired. He was the second overall draft picked by the Chicago Bulls and the 2002 NBA draft. Now, Jay works as a basketball analyst for ESPN. He hosts a radio show and is actively involved as an investor in the business world. Jay is a man of many talents. During this conversation we discuss the night, the terrifying night when Jay wrecked his motorcycle, which ultimately led to the end

of this playing career and what he's learned from it. And then he explains the genius of his coach and mentor coach Mike Shoshesky and how you can implement some of the genius that he learned from Coach K with your team. Then he shares the life lessons he's learned from Kobe Bryant, and how he tries to incorporate those in his life and how you can too. Ladies and gentlemen, an emotional one, but an awesome conversation with the great Jay Williams. Jay, as I told you before we started recording, big fan of you as a player. And now with everything you do in the media world, man, great to have you here on the learning leader. So welcome.

Thanks, man. I'm stoked to be here. I heard we have a lot of commonalities. You said the Duke ties were pretty strong. So I look forward to continuing it. You're the fourth Duke guy. I had JJ Redick, whoa, Joe, who by the way, I just saw last week at my workshop in Arizona.

He was awesome. And I had Jay Billis. So we've got some good Duke guys here now. I got you. So when it was, you were presented, I said, oh, man, yeah, I got to talk to Jay. Well, this is going to be good. Well, Jay Bill says to the, he sets a pretty high bar. So, you know, for me, he's the league.

background and his sarcasm, though I'm sure he delivered a ton of his dry jokes, which I thoroughly enjoy as a listener to him sometimes. Me too. And now you guys are teammates again, I guess, both at ESPN. So pretty cool. I want to go back to earlier in your career. I know it's a story you've talked about a lot, but there's a few reasons why I want to bring it up. So for those who don't know, your second overall pick in the 2002 NBA draft, one of the best college basketball players of all the time, when a title at Duke, phenomenal player. But in June of 2003, you get into a motorcycle crash that almost kills you, but basically puts you in a position where it looked like you were not going to be able to play.

But I want to hone in on a specific moment because this is a leadership conversation. I believe I read that Coach K, your college coach, flew on a private plane from Colorado to come and see you. after you'd gotten in this accident. And I was curious about one, what he said to you and what it meant to you that he came to see you from all across the country after you got in this accident. No, Ryan, one of the best lessons I learned during my tenure at Duke, especially for me, because I wasn't a true point guard. So when I was in high school, funny story, my high school coach and Coach Kay during his

official visit. My mother made Polish sausage, which is like, so funny. Like, you can make other meals for Coach K other than Polish sauces, but trying to like, hey, this is etiquette, you know, we want to serve you at this, that you're familiar with things of that sort. And my high school coach and Coach K literally almost got into a little bit of a spat because Coach K said that, you know, he thinks I'm the best point guard in the country. And my high school coach said that I'm better suited for the two or the three position because of my ability to score. So if that gives you any insight into, I didn't really think the game thoroughly through as a player. I was more reactive than proactive as a thinker, as a player. And from that moment on, he started planting seeds for me

to look forward to moments of the game, right? So, hey, when this turnover happens, how will you react in this type of moment? He gave me more scenario-driven workshops to kind of prepare my mind for how I would handle adversity throughout games, which paid major dividends for me as a player. And this moment after my accident, obviously you can imagine the emotions very similar to a game. The emotions are very, very high, right? Because you're lost in the extremism of things, right? So for me, I'm in the hospital room. And I'll explain this analogy in a minute on how I can tie the two together.

but I'm in the hospital room. I have, you know, pens, three metal pins stuck into my, one into my higher thigh, one into my knee, one into my shin that's holding my leg up. I have two metal pins that are about a foot that are extending from both my hips because I, you know, literally severed my pubic synthesis similar to when a woman has a child. It splits open, my split open 13 inches. So my pelvic bone is kind of fused together with these pins and my knee is kind of you know, laid up into the air extended. And, you know, you're having all these devilish thoughts

in your mind during that time. What the hell did I do to myself? Why did I even put myself in this position? I was in the verge of achieving all my dreams. I felt like I just figured out my first year in the NBA, you know, not just how to play the game, but how to live the lifestyle and not get lost in all the BS that came along with the lifestyle of being somebody, a pro. And there was a lot of anger and there was a lot of sorrow combined together. And once again in that moment, a guy that got me to look forward to how I would handle something later is, you know, he handed me a rosary that I still have to this day. And I'll never forget, obviously, seeing his walk, I know that gate, seeing him walk down the hallway a little bit. And I thought

I was dreaming because I was so high on, you know, different, you know, I was high on morphine and all these other different vituists that that gave me. And I'll never forget, he brought this pendant, this rosary, and he handed it to me. And I was on a verge of crying. And he puts it in my hand. And he just says, you know, you're going to give this back to me when you play again, because you are going to play again. And here I was as a 21-year-old young adult who was so lost in that particular moment, in my own sorrow, in my own anger about what I had done to myself and the end result of it, that I couldn't get myself out of that, cocoom, that moment. And once again, giving you a point, a reference point to look forward to about what you're going to accomplish

to get yourself out of that mindset that you're currently in. That's exactly what that rosary did for me. And it got me to start thinking about, okay, I just turned the ball over. hey, I just missed five shots in a row, but I'm not going to let these bad series of plays or that turnover or this accident define me. And that was the first step in the process of me transitioning myself psychologically towards what I wanted to achieve next. And obviously, that came with, you know, years of physical therapy and a lot of mental rehabilitation as well. But that was the first seed that it planted. And he planted a lot more. But that was the first step.

Wow. Thank you for sharing that story, man. It makes me think from again, like the leadership lesson here, you know, when we're working with people who are struggling or going through something really challenging that he was thoughtful enough to think way ahead to give you almost like a point to shoot for. Right. Like it seems like you obviously remembered this and and you learn from this. Like how do you try to incorporate this? Like, how do you try to incorporate this? into your life now as a leader to give other people. I don't know if the right word is hope or a path or some guidance or all the inspiration, all of the above, because at that moment, I'm guessing your feeling is about as bad as a person who's still alive can feel, right? You've thrown everything away. People are calling you probably an idiot for getting on a motorcycle when you're an NBA super, whatever, you know, all those things.

So what have you taken from that now that you try to incorporate? as a leader for other people when it comes to giving people some direction or something to shoot for? Well, you naturally do this. I think leadership first starts off with initiating a conversation because in order to lead someone, you have to know who someone is. You have to know how they tick. And I always found that to be a pretty arduous task for a lot of coaches when I get a chance to go around the country and see the different styles in which people communicate.

when there is one, I guess, generic theme to how people lead, right? You can't just lead one generic way. You have to understand who you are as a team, you know, what your overall mantra is as a team, and then how your individuals have built connectivity to become one. I think that's very important. So, you know, for me personally trying to ask questions about who people are, where they come from, what's their background, how they think about particular situations, How would you have handled this if you were in a position of leadership?

And I think by asking those probing questions and understanding how that individual is motivated, then I tap into more, how can I build a bridge about what we have more in common than how we're so different. I think everybody tries to leave from a place of, and I think it's also a byproduct, Ryan, of social media. Let me showcase how I am different. Let me showcase how my lifestyle is better or I have different access to you. And for me, the way I found the motivate individuals, especially either companies I invest in or just every single day work, going to a show for four and a half, five hours a day is not only let me leave by example, but let me leave by getting to know you and understanding you and finding ways to relate to you. You know, one of my friends that I work with just had a family member that they lost in North Carolina.

And so for me, going to a place of saying, what hospital was she at? I'm saying, oh, she was at. I'm saying, oh, she was at Duke. Okay, well, I have a lot of connections at Duke. Is there anything I can do to help you? I have a home down that way. I have a doctor down that way. Here are the people I know from a hospice situation that can help you down that way. A priest I know down that way in case you just want to pray.

I'm not even sure that you're religious. So by opposing all those different scenarios and those different optionalities, that person naturally started telling me more about themselves. And I think now whenever we talk, the connectivity, the relationship, that we have, those are cross-reference points, right, that you build off of. And that builds trust, Ryan. And before I can run through a wall for anybody, before I can exert myself to points of exhaustion where I'm working my tail off, I need to know who I'm working for. I need to know what I'm working with. And I think those are the kind of reference points that are imperative

to help you lead is just understanding who people are to begin with. Wow. I mean, you just come across as like such a thoughtful dude. Is this from your mom? Is this from Coach K, a combination of all the people? I mean, I have to believe it starts when you're young. I mean, where do you come at life with this type of thoughtfulness to say it's about caring? It's about curiosity versus judgment is what I'm picking up on right. Because like, especially today, it's easy for others to judge somebody first as opposed to approaching them with curiosity.

I think those two are polar opposites, right? And so as a dad, that's one of the things I try to say is like, let's lead with curiosity instead of leading with judgment, meaning even if they're doing something that you disagree with, instead of just judging them, let's ask them why or wonder why or have a conversation about that to say maybe we can work through and try to learn from one another just because they think something different or they're doing something that maybe you wouldn't do doesn't immediately mean let's just kill that person, right? It's like, let's try to figure that out. So I have to ask first and foremost, is it like, is that for your mom or where does that come from?

I think it's from a combination of things. You know, my mother used to always talk about life isn't interpreted by headlines. You know, we naturally live in a headline driven society. What the headline says is what it is. And these are the facts. And my mother's like, well, wait a second. Did you read the 10 pages of fine print before you sign the documentation? Like there's context to a lot of these things. And I think my mother always had a drive and still does for education, for knowledge. While she was raising me with my father, she went back to school to receive multiple master degrees to better herself while she was taking care of my grandmother who was on dialysis, who had a policy. a kidney disease, which inevitably she lost a fight to. So I think I naturally saw that type of

work mentality, that type of blue collar grit and everyday approach, which for some people can become extremely exhausting. I also think my father, you know, working at AMX and leaving every single morning and going on trips. And I think the combination of those two combined with obviously Coach K during, you know, that time of my life where I was trying to absorb as much as possible when you're in your formative years, you know, 17, 18, 19, 20, and little things like shaking somebody's hand and looking them in the eye and accountability. You know, for me, I had the foundation of awareness, but I don't think I activated that foundation when I was younger.

I was careless. I was too busy moving, not thinking about how I wanted to move, Ryan, if that makes sense. And I think when I got to school, I saw the, hey, just because I'm moving around a lot, doesn't mean that I'm being effective, right? It doesn't mean that I'm actually being efficient with my movement. I think that's where Coach Kay started to fine tune a lot of that thinking.

And I'll say, I think that my accident, I never had a moment in my life that I was forced to stop. I was doing a lot of thinking on the fly. And my accident was the first time where I got the miles per hour, the speedometer was always at 100 or higher. And I was forced to be at zero. And I started seeing the world in a different way. I started seeing, I was doing all these things,

but how was I really creating impact? Because the world kept going. you know there was another headline there was another news story there was another athlete coming i saw kirk hamrick get drafted i saw the bulls move forward i saw coach k move forward with other recruits and you know all these people that were in my inbox saying i wish you well i'm praying for you they have families they had lives and it left you to the point like excuse my language but like shit like at the end of the day i have to pick my own ass back up like me Like the tools that I've been given, I have to pay attention to what those tools were.

And now I have to apply them to my life. And just not say it, but actually start trying to live it, live it, and hold myself accountable without having a coach K, without having an NBA coach or Jerry Reinsdorf, the owner of the Bulls, without having an agent, me as my own man. Like what principles and standards am I living by? And I think that was the first time that all that foundation that I had, all that coaching and fine-tuning I had from my coach K and what he's built upon from what my family did. Now of a sudden it was like, this is your, this is your opportunity to go off into the world as your own man and figure out what kind of man you want to be. And that was a challenge I took. this forced stoppage in your life. So there's definitely some downsides, right?

I've read a lot about the depression and the suicide attempts and the drugs, right, pills and oxycontinent drinking, right? That you leaned on, it sounds like to get through that. And as we get past, I mean, you're welcome to obviously share about that. I think it's probably useful to hear about that. But what I found today, Jay, working with so many leaders is the fact that a comment. theme is nobody stops. Like nobody takes time to pause and reflect and think. And it's just back to back to back to back.

And then if you reflect back, like, am I making an impact? I know I'm busy. I know I'm busy, but am I actually making an impact? And so maybe you can share how being forced to do that has made you so much better. And certainly not what you thought. Like you expected to probably be playing basketball forever as long as possible. And this forced you to stop. And it sounds like, though, that's what's made you now have such an impact in the world just in a way that maybe you had not expected earlier.

Yeah. So, and I'm with you, man. Impact is what I want my legacy to be. So I had that stoppage moment, which is a pretty significant moment in my life at age of 21. You know, my, when I, when I first came to Duke, I really wanted to wear the number 32. That was my high school number. Obviously, Christian Leitner had that number and retired that number. So it was out of the stars, it was out of my realm.

I reached when I came to school. I never forget I came inside Cameron Indoor Stadium after I was speaking to Coach K and my father was there. And he was sitting in the gymnasium and he was looking at the Raptors. And I came out and I said, you know, dad, go ahead, an incredible conversation with this guy. I sometimes have to pinch myself, Ryan. I meet a lot of coaches, and a lot of coaches have special qualities. I was coached by one of the greatest minds to ever coach the game of life, not basketball.

Like basketball is so insignificant and it would not put the right value on the lessons that Coach K has been able to bring it to my life. This is a life leader. So for me in that moment, after having a spiriting conversation with him and then being channeled and focused the right way, I came out saying, you know, Dad, this is this is the place I need to be here. And he said, you know, son, I've been thinking about Coach Kay, the academic qualities here. It seems like there's no school with the better combination of both to help you become the young man. I know you can become. and I'm looking at the numbers and I see that 11 is retired Bobby Hurley. I see 33 is retired Grant Hill.

I see 44 is retired Dick Groat. It feels like the number 22 is the missing link. And I'll ask you, do you want to be a king among kings or do you want to be a king among men? And for me at that moment, I was like, I want to be a king among kings. He's like, well, you should come here and take your place amongst the kings and get the number 22 retired. And I tell you that, Rye, because my 22nd birthday, my leg is strapped up. I can't walk. I'm in a wheelchair.

And in my mind, when I take you back to the moment when I'm 17, being a two-time national player of the year, staying in school and graduating a year early, being a second pick in the draft, feeling like this is divine that I'm going to the same place I dream, I dream to playing as a young kid coming out to the same music Michael Jordan had, sitting in the same locker as Michael Jordan, and nobody else wanting it since his retirement and me saying, no, I want this. I want this to rub off on me. And heavy is the head that wears the crown.

I want to wear the crown. And then having that happened to me by my own choice, I think at the age of 22, sitting in my backyard with my mother and my father there and my fiance at the time, thinking to myself, you know, how the hell did I get here? And then at that moment being like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be. This is exactly where I'm supposed to be. And now who I become from this moment on will really dictate, am I what I thought of myself all these years leading up to this point?

So I tell you that because I think for me, that's when a lot of the work started. And I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I just had this plan where I stopped myself multiple times throughout my 20s because I didn't. I almost fell back into the same habit I'd have before where I have to run. I have to figure it out now because now am I coming back to play and oh, God, I didn't come back and I didn't play and I got hurt again. Now what am I going to do with my career? A lot of people say, you know, what is it to be a man?

And first off, you got to find out what you're going to do and who you are. So there was a lot of that completion about, you are what you do. And I spent a lot of my 20s running again. And I think it wasn't until I got into my mid-30s that I was like, hold on a second. I need to start learning from all these things that happened to me in my early 20s. And whether that was George Floyd and all of a sudden now, hey, go on TV right away. You know, speak your truth about where it is to be a blackmailing media. Well, hold on a second.

I'm just not going to do that. I need to think about my strategy and my approach here and saying, hey, work, I understand that you have a need to be. for clicks and that you have a need for ratings. And whenever we're speaking upon racial issues, the demographic that I'm pretty much talking to are predominantly Caucasian males. But I need to think about what is my two market strategy for myself first. And I need to think about how I actually feel about a lot of these things going on. And instead of just saying, this is what it is and people need to get on board, how am I doing that in my own voice to build more? connectivity to make you understand that, yes, I am an African-American male, but I also have so many

traits that are so similar to you, middle-aged Caucasian male in Cleveland, middle-aged Caucasian male in South Dakota. How am I bringing that connectivity so you can understand who Jason Williams is as a human being? And then I can get into the nuances about what it feels like to be black, but the more you understand who I am, the more you're like, damn, I never thought. about it like that, right? Or catching COVID at the NBA finals and saying, hey, come back and work and talk. Well, hold on a second. I'm worried about how does this affect my daughter who's immunocompromised. How does this affect my mother who's gone through two scenarios where she's almost passed away this past year who's still sick and who's gone through two kidney transplants and diverticolitis

and congenital heart failure? You know, how am I going to talk about that when I just come back to work. How am I going to talk about how COVID affected me, even though I was vaccinated, you know, being in a stadium full of 35,000 people while I'm at work. These are very nuanced, delicate subject matters to talk about, you know, while everybody's trying to make a decision about whether they want to take the vaccine or not. How am I being informed enough scientifically so I can talk to you about. So now I feel like as a 40-year-old man, I've done it multiple times in my 30s where I say, let's just call a timeout. Give me a full. timeout basketball. Give me a full time out. Let's talk strategy here. Let's talk about all the

details were that led up to this point. And let's talk about how we're going to strategize moving forward, which is very important. You have become, it feels to me like, and you could expand more on this, like a go-to guy for current players on kind of life, on media, on business building, on off-the-court interest, on branding. And I don't think you become this guy just, because you want to. I think you have to be someone who adds significant value to others' lives, especially from professional athletes who can basically have anybody they want in their inner circle to work with, a partner with, right? And I know from seeing there's tons of people who do this with you. I'm curious, can you talk more about that and why you think

you've become one of those guys? Because if you look at it, you didn't have a long MBA career. You played for a year until before you got hurt. So it wasn't because you had a long career. It's because of what you've done after your career got cut short. What is it about you and how you approach kind of life and business and branding and career building that you think is so attractive to other professional athletes that they want to call you and hang out and work with you? Well, I think it's about how you frame your narrative, Ryan. I think that's so important. And I think for me, my accident was the first lesson in that. I think for the first couple of years after I was hurt, you know, you already alluded to this, right?

Jay Williams, the idiot. Jay Williams, the guy that, you know, hit a utility pole going 65 miles an hour and threw away his career. There were so many of these narratives that were being formulated about me that I let get out of control because I never faced. my own moment of adversity, right? You know, Jay-Z had that song back in the day, you know, called Moment of Clarity. And I think for myself, that moment of clarity came when I said enough of me allowing other people

to tell my own story, I'm going to go to market with my story. This is my story. And I think going around to different book publishers and having a lot of them tell me know that, There needs to be more here that, you know, you need to experience more. There needs to be a payoff. And I'm sitting there saying, you know, at 28, 29, the payoff is that I'm alive.

That's the payoff. And the payoff is that all these opportunities that have been given to me came from me finding a way to forge myself through the fire, right? It's almost like a sword. You know, when people, you know, mold the sword, like, it takes hot flames. in intense increased heat in order to shape this sword to have a fine point to be sharp. So for me, my accident was me being, you know, in swords into the flames. And so talking about all those lessons and what I learned and also, you know, be frank with you,

I think there's so much relatability that I have to athletes. And I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm perfect. It's been extremely challenging for me to navigate this media. landscape and the amount of hours that you're supposed to speak in some of the corners that puts you in. But I understand it for people, even more so now, even more so now, right at 40 years old. I empathize so much more with people like Kevin Durant, LeBron James, and Janus, and superstars of tomorrow in all sports. Because people have these stories that are being told about them from other people that don't really have insight into

their lives or who they are. And these stories are automatically facts. And then you have the slew of people online that constantly feel like they throw daggers and jabs at you because it's either funny to them because of what they're going through in their life. And that's a way to get away from that. Or they just feel like, hey, I can say whatever. I want, there's no repercussions. And psychologically, what does that do you every single day when you're consuming information about yourself on this? What does that do to you every single day? How do you combat that? How do you fight that? So I think now being able to carry all those experiences to the table of having a platform and talking about it and being open and authentic

about what my challenges were and how I'm trying to navigate that, hopefully lends to them and how they navigate it. And hopefully let's them understand that everybody is out here having an hour time navigating this new space of vulnerability and being open, having people criticize you and chastise you for every play, every decision that you make.

You know, Anthony Davis, people are reporting on his wedding as if it were game seven of the NBA finals. You feel like you have no more privacy to even have delicate conversations about something that you don't know. You have to be this individual, I know everything, or I'm not going to talk about

this, how do you have an environment conducive to learning when there's not transparency and vulnerability in that environment? You know, it's not conducive to you learning because you have to be retracted from the real world because you know that even you saying the wrong thing, even if you're ignorant about a subject matter, that can get twisted or contorted, and that's another headline. So for me, I just try to create that environment as much as possible to say, hey, not everything needs to be a story, you know, to the media. I just want to see you win, just like you want to see other people win. Let's figure out the best environment conducive for that to happen.

So I watch you, I watched you this morning, actually, on your radio show Simulcast on the ESPN networks. And one of the things I've come away, I talked to my brother about this recently, too. I was like, Jay Will, this seems to be always so, overly prepared in a great way so that you can just let it flow. I would love to learn about this maybe a little kind of, I guess, inside baseball talk, because it's my own curiosity, but like what is your prep process like to make sure you are ready to roll when the lights turn on,

when the microphone turns on? It just seems like you, it doesn't, I've never got to sense, whether you're on get up or other shows or you're analyzing a game at the finals, whatever. I've never got a sense that you've shown up without being fully ready to go. Can you walk us through like your prep process? Because I think this applies to any leader and any job about how they get ready for the moments of their career and their day-to-day job. Yeah, never, that prep process really never turns off, right? I mean, behind you right now, I literally have CNBC on and I'm watching what's happening in the marketplace. you know, there's been a lot of a lot of fascinating things I've learned about myself over the past

several years. You know, and Jay Billis was actually one of the first people to put me on. He's like, you do the work so you can reference the work, but you do the work almost as a parachute. You don't need the parachute, right? The parachute is there, but how you navigate the conversations is things in case. you draw a blank or in case there's a deeper point that you want to make that, hey, here's a nugget for you just in order to seal your conversation together. So that's an ongoing 24-7, 365 process, especially when you're not as familiar with other sports.

You know, I can go back and break down plays with my eyes closed from last year's finals. I can go down and break down how I think LeBron James and Magic Johnson are two of the most gifted passers the game has ever seen. scene and give you different scenarios in games in which I think they've proven that. It's a little bit more challenging with me in football, right? Like I didn't grow up playing football. I played Pop Warner for a split second, but I really excelled at basketball. So going back and being prepared to be able to talk about different divisions, historical references for different divisions, player stats and who's in the MVP race this year as opposed

to last year and how you compare those 90s. that takes a lot of preparation. And to be able then to be as familiar with an H.L. hockey tour degree, right, based upon if we decided to talk about them, what's happening right now in Major League Baseball, that's with the Mets or with the Yankees and will they get the wild card, has been trending in the right direction for them lately, which makes me a little bit concerned, you know, or the Mets and Javier Baez. I think it takes, you know, I went to the Mets game the other day and threw out the first

pitch and talk to Louise Rojas and the manager. Like, I missed that so much, too. spending personal time with individuals. You know, the past two years has been tough. When you don't get a chance to spend time with people and go to their environments and hear their stories, right? Marcus Stroman spoke to him the other day. Duke alumni is a picture for the Mets and hear about his interpretation of Javier Baez and the thumbs down scenario and how that made fans feel, but get their inside POV and what even got them to that point. Wow, that makes you understand it differently. So I think it's almost been through osmosis, right?

Going to events, understanding what's happening on the business side, sitting down with a guy in his box like Steve Cohen, understanding his mindset about where he wants to take the Mets organization, why he thinks Francisco Lindor is so pivotal to where he wants his franchise to go from a leadership perspective, understanding, hey, is there a guy like Theo Epstein out there that can help their franchise, get over that hump and go to the next level. I think by combining business and sports with an understanding of who athletes are, that is my goal. Like, that is who I am.

And I see guys like Darren Robele. I hear guys like Stephen A. Smith. And I see guys like Kendrick Perkins, right? Like, what is the combination of all three of those? You know, some guy that can give you insight, some guy that can provide you relatability, but also a person that understands structurally where this business is of the sport and where this business is going, I feel like that's my sweet spot. And that's what I love to do.

It's unique. Obviously, there's not, I can't think of another person I would put like who could do those, all of those things that you just mentioned. Jay, given what you do, you have to make decisions on who to partner with. You have to make decisions on where to work or what to do. And you've also, throughout all of that gotten to experience. experience all these amazing leaders and decide, like, do I want to work with him or her or what am I going to do? So I'm just curious, if you think about all of those people, what have you found

to be some of the commonalities among leaders in general who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time? Wow. What a great question. So many things. Jack, Dorsey. being on a plane coming back from the west coast to the east coast, spending time talking about him. And obviously the platform that he's built has led to so many conversations around how we treat one another. And what the effects of that due to young minds in their formative years about how they feel about themselves. Twitter, by the way, we're talking about. Yes. Create Twitter.

CEO of Twitter. Okay. Yes. And thank you for providing that context. I should have done that sometimes, you know, just saying, Jack. Right. I'm with you. And I think how he carries this incredible weight for the responsibility that comes along with the platform and how it's helped mold minds. And it's been challenging. But there's a concerted effort. You know, one of my really good friends, a guy named Mark Klaus, who is the CEO of Campbell's Soup, and his story is pretty amazing. I met Mark when Mark was the CMO of Mondalise, and I'll never forget, you know, a relationship, you know, really flourish because we had so many commonalities.

And I'll never forget, you know, Mark didn't get a chance to see his son play high school football a lot because he was traveling around the world. And obviously, you know, when you're the CMO of a company, some pretty high intense moments you go through. And I'll never forget this moment. We're having dinner. And Mark is telling me that, you know, I'm thinking about taking a break for a minute. Like, well, Mark, you're on track to become CEO of Mondalise.

This is a Fortune 500 company. This has been something you've been talking about for a while. And he's like, yeah, but I didn't get a chance to spend time with my son. And my other son's about to go through high school. and I want to see him play. I want to be present for him. And I want to also spend time with my older son. And now he's graduating.

He's going to be in the city. And I want to prioritize that. And I give him credit. He stopped. You know, he took time. And then, you know, a headhunter found him. He became the CEO of a smaller packaging company. And three years later, you can't make this stuff, Ryan.

This is how the universe works. He's watched his son. play high school football. He's having an incredible time. He's running this business. And then private equity comes in and they buy his company for like a 10x and he makes crazy amounts of money. And he's like, I just been rewarded for prioritizing my family. You never hear stories like that, right? So I give you to Jack Dorsey example of prioritizing social responsibility and how there's a concerted effort to do that. I give you the Mark Klaus story because there's a concerted effort to prioritize family. And, you know, I think these are these are life lessons that

you find from great individuals. And I'll give you the last one. How are you creating impact for those that are creating impact? I watched a docu last night with my wife. And yesterday was a pretty significant day. And I was actually pretty frustrated about it because I know we live in this world where we talk about sports all the time. And there's a lot of big time games on yesterday. And Tom Birdie threw for five touchdowns and no interceptions and Russell Wilson, they lost to the Tennessee Titans and all these Dallas Cowboys, they beat the Chargers because, you know, Greg Zerlin makes a field goal kick from 56 yards and he redeems himself, Leggetron, and Greg the Leg and all these stories. But I'm sitting there saying, these stories pale in comparison to the biggest story

that happened yesterday. We sent four individual civilians to outer space and they came back yesterday. Are they like Space X and Elon Musk like this, for lack of better terms, like arm races between him and Richard Branson and Jack Bezos to almost commercialize trips to outer space and what that experience must be like. And I mean, we sent, you know, somebody that works for St. Jude's. We sent three everyday human beings. And for me, when you start understanding about those individuals,

and their stories about how they've been impactful. And to see that be rewarded, like, wow. Like, it just, it makes everything else that we get so lost in day-to-day seems so minute, right? When you're that far into outer space, looking down on our planet saying, like, that's impact. And how you might feel about it, just the thought of it,

life-changing experiences for individuals, is how do you provide that to people? How do you give people who don't have any hope something to look forward to like a Coach K and plant that seed and have them fight for something? And I feel like a lot of corporations are missing that. You know, people ask me, what's the best thing for retention? Make people a believer in what the hell you're doing.

That will increase your retention rate. Because right now people in the midst of a pandemic and struggles with families and are we in it, are we out of it? people are looking for something to hold on to, Ryan. And you have to be able to provide that for them. Can we talk about Kobe for a second? Sure. One of my best, man.

Jordan and Kobe were like the guys. And I remember, I think you were one of the very first people, I feel like, that had kind of their response to his death go viral. Not that you think of that way. I know you don't. But I remember watching it and then watching it again. and it was just felt seemed so heartfelt and just full of raw emotion. I really, really appreciate, especially because it was such a painful time.

I obviously don't know him personally, but like, you know, worship the dude. Could you talk a little bit about like him and what he meant to you and that? And maybe even that day as well when you gave that first interview was on ESPN and talked about his tragic death? I, due to my short career, didn't get the opportunity to spend as much time with Kobe that I'm sure I would have. But he impacted me so greatly in the shorter moments that we were able to share, right? Moments through the players should be, and then obviously moments through a young player in the league. And, you know, one of the things I had loved about him is that there, and Jordan had it. and Steffie Graff has it.

A lot of the greats do. There is this relentless pursuit to be the best. But, you know, for Kobe, too, like, there's also a little bit of a crazy side to me. Like, you know, I was, I knew one of his favorite songs they listened to was the song, like the Halloween song by Michael Myers, right? Like, it just put him in that mindset, like, you know, it doesn't matter who you are and what you are, don't F with me. Like, I am in killer mode right now, right? And how he would get himself to that maximize level of performance. And that was always a very special trait of his.

But the most beautiful and the most inspirational aspect of Kobe Bryant to me was not as a player. It was how he was able to crystallize those same intangible traits. that got him to maximize his talent on the floor, the way he was able to get those things to translate to his other missions after he was done playing basketball. And you saw a lot of that translate to him being a husband and him being a father. You know, one of the first things people always ask me

when you meet people at different events is if they don't know who I am, but they see other people talking to me, is it, oh, like, hey, what's your name? I mean, you look familiar. I'm like, oh, hi, I'm J. Williams and nice to me. They're like, what do you do? Right. And it's so easy to get lost into that rhyme because every single day, if you're not focused on who you are, you easily become what you do.

You start talking about yourself with those type of reference points. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think watching Kobe go through the process of saying, that's what I did, but this is who I am. And these are how those principles apply to every facet of my life,

that I'm going to take this rag of water and I'm going to squeeze it so damn tight. I'll be damned if I don't let, you know, that one little drip not come out. I want to get the most out of it. And that's just always the precedence that Kobe has set for me. And I think that particular day, I just became a father a couple months before. That brings on a significant different meaning to an individual. You start recognizing the importance of not providing monetarily, but psychologically, you know, what kind of footprint, what kind of trajectory, what kind of standard are you providing for your wife? and your child about who you are and about what you want your family to represent.

And that day for me, you know, finding that out, it would have been so typical for anybody to try to describe Kobe Bryant by putting him in a box, right, about what he accomplished on the court. But for me, I wanted people to relate to Kobe Bryant to human being, the dude who wasn't, who wasn't perfect, who didn't have everything figured out, who made mistakes along the way. But damn, that was not going to stop him for pursuing to be the best version of himself. And if there's anything that my experiences have taught me is that nobody promises you how long you're going to be here, man. And to combine that raw emotion,

with how I felt about him as a human being in conjunction with my own emotion of still being here to witness that when I could have been in the dirt 19 years ago. I think once again hit me at the core of my soul about this is a moment for him to impact people the way he would have wanted to. impact people way beyond basketball could ever do for him. And I'm sorry for going a little bit long wind on this one, I ride, but it was all my car riding on the way over, you know, before I went on air, you know, I was obviously emotional, but I was like, I really want to epitomize that for people because I think it's important for people. That's what Kobe's legacy was, you know, not the championships or the

pull on, you know. It was, man, the impact he had on people, you have kids out there that, you know, want to be like mama. Yeah. I want to, you know, mama mentality. And that spirit needs to live on

to give other people hope about Kobe didn't always believe in himself when he was younger. And he started to, and look what happens when you believe in yourself. You know, it still brings on challenges. But wow. to see that and to try to talk about that, man.

I was, it's one of the realest moments I've ever had in my life. You were, you were phenomenal, man. You know, one of the things about Kobe, I started feeling towards the end of his career. Took him some time to get to this place. I'm sure you could sense it. And it's happened with others, too, is he got to the point where he was 100% authentic, I felt. Like he said exactly what was on his mind. And while some of them might have been controversial or,

He was like, this is me. This is what I think. This is what I'm about to do. I'm going to go score 60 or whatever. And I think it was a great leadership lesson for me, seeing him as he grew into that, which is hard to do. I know it's especially harder for younger guys. I get it. But it was like, you know what people want to be around?

You know what people value? They value that part of it. They value like, is this person being real? Is this person being authentic? And I got that sense. That's why he became so beloved, even though he's certainly a flawed person, because it was like, I feel like we know where we're at with this guy. And I think leaders could learn a lot from that part, especially that stage of his career

where he was just telling you what he thought. You know, right? Also, I think what comes along with that, like the ability to protect the ones around you, right? And, you know, kind of save them from a lot of the stuff that goes on. I try to tell people that, you know, can you imagine what it's like to be a Kobe Brian, everywhere you go, somebody is trying to talk to you about what you've done before in the past. Somebody's trying to tell you, hey, this story or that story. And if you allow that stuff,

that can steal those present moments you have with your children, with your wife, with your family members. So I think you couldn't have said it better. It also puts in perspective how crazy and close knit of a group that family was. You know, and they went through a lot. lot of stuff, man. And for his wife to be by her side, by his side speaks volumes. Well, we'll ask that question, Jay, if you got a second.

And that is, yeah, I got time. Okay. There's somebody who's graduating college recently, and they're in the working world, and they hear your story, and they hear the talk about impact. And that person wants to leave a debt in the world, a positive impact on other people.

What are some of the general pieces of life advice slash career advice you would give to somebody in those early stages in their career. So one of my friends told me once when I was younger that if you're not living your life with passion and what's your purpose, right? Are you just floating? Are you just somebody who's there? I think we all know a lot of people who are just there. And that's not said in a malicious way, right?

It's just what happens is life will constantly throw things at you. and if you allow life to dictate what your tempo is, then you'll constantly be going, right? And you'll look down and be like, where am I? It's like sometimes when you're climbing on a mountain, sometimes you need to just stop and be like, damn, I've climbed a long way. I've never thought for taking a second to look down.

Wow. Like I'm always looking up about where I want to climb, but sometimes just take a second and pause. And I think the biggest thing that I would say is that appreciate. your position while planning your promotion. So if you do want to live your life with passion, if there is something that you want to go out and accomplish, even if you don't like what you're doing right now, how are you utilizing

that platform and that opportunity? Because I don't care what anybody says, whether you're a garbage worker, whether you're somebody who's an assistant, whether you're somebody who is an architect, whether you're somebody who is an architect. That opportunity that you have to do that will afford you moments to take advantage of. You have to be in the mindset that you're appreciating it while planning for what's coming next, but you have to strategize about it. A lot of people say, well, things are lucky. Yeah, I'm not saying that luck doesn't happen. But you have to put yourself in that position for luck to happen. And that comes with the mindset being ready to strike when that opportunity comes. And I try to tell

people, whether if you're in college, if you're graduating college, how are you utilizing the resources around you? Are you sending emails to other alumni from your school? If you play a sport, are you inviting respective alumni from your school to watch you play? And I'm not talking about, let me send you a DM on social media. I'm talking about, are you sending this guy in email? Are you sending this woman a handwritten letter? Are you calling their offices relentlessly into that person is like, damn, I'm going to take a call. This guy's called 15 times. You know, there are ways that you can make your mark. But how do you combine that relentless mentality or pursuit that Kobe had with appreciating your position while planning your

promotion with living your life with passion? People want to be around people who are passionate about what they do and what they want to accomplish. Don't be one of those people that allow life to dictate your tempo. You dictate your tempo. Love it. Jay, this is awesome, man. We're would you send viewers, listeners to learn more about you online? So I'm doing a lot more now. Obviously, all my social media pages, but we just launched a podcast with NPR. We'll be talking to a lot of individuals on how they scaled their own personal brands and what are the challenges and opportunities that come along with that.

And so I'm really excited about that because I'm creating essentially a cheat sheet for myself by picking the brains of people who have done some pretty incredible things right so everybody's who are you talking to uh you know we're talking everybody a guys like dwayne johnson how he's been able to do that leverage you got the rock on well we're we're working on procuring certain individuals okay which i think it's like sorry some of it might still be secret i guess yeah no it's all good it's all good okay so i i think all that is very exciting for me because i think that's very authentic to who i am So, you know, for me to also have a notepad and for me to jot down notes and then to share my notes with my viewers and my, you know, people that pay attention to me about, you know, hey, these are the things that are going to make applicable to my life. And this time I'm going to insert them.

It's really cool. Obviously, what I'm doing with ESPN every single day on our show, Kishan, J. Will and Max, which is cool working with Max Kellerman and Kishon have been great for me. And then, you know, what I'm able to do with some of the businesses I'm involved in. So I'm really excited about the opportunity, man. It's once again, I feel like, you know, when you turn 30, it feels like things slow down. But just turning 40th, September 10th, I feel like things have slowed down even more. And looking forward to see how that matrix takes me to a different place. And it's so cool.

And I really appreciate like the care and thought you put into this one today. And I just got to tell you, man, I'd love to continue our dialogue as, as we both progress. Hopefully there's an in person meeting at some point here in the future. It'd be a lot of fun, man. I would love that, Ryan. And congrats everything you're doing, man. Keep blazing your path, bro. We need more people like you that challenge the status quo and think outside the box,

but also can put things into perspective. Oh, man. That means a lot. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much, man. All right, brother. All right. I feel like you can really tell that Jaywell has spent a lot of time

and reflection and understanding who he is and the type of impact he wants to have on others and the world as a whole. and I really enjoy people like him. I really enjoyed him and look forward to more conversations as we both progress. In fact, I told him the next time I'm in New York City, we're going to plan to get together. I hope you enjoyed that one as much as I did. Looking at my notes, a few of them. The career advice, he shared at the end,

appreciate your position while planning your promotion. So be excellent at your current role, right? Be so good they can't ignore you, as Cal Newport might say, or Steve Martin. But at the same time, you can compartmentalize and think about what could potentially be next. I think Jay does this really well if you look at his career. And then when Coach Kay handed him the rosary when he was lying in the hospital after his motorcycle accident, what did that do? It gave him hope. It gave him something to work towards.

It was a thoughtful gesture and can be something we do when trying to help someone else through a challenging time. How can we give somebody hope? How can we give them something to look towards to work for so they get out of their tough situation? And then his preparation process, as he said, it never turns off. He's always working on preparing for his job. And as Jay Bill has said, it becomes like the parachute where you don't want to have to use it, but you know it's there if you need it, if you ever get stuck. And that's why we prepare so much.

It did remind me a little bit of the Jim Collins conversation when discussing why the people he work with prepare so much so that they can just let it flow in the moment. I see when you watch him on TV, Jay's really good at that. Once again, I want to say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message, continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two. Hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with Jay Williams. It'll help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that and because you continue to write reviews and rate the show five stars on Apple Podcasts, hopefully, you are giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful.

Thank you so, so much. Talk to you, too.