The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 443: Rebecca Minkoff - The New Rules For Unlocking Creativity & Courage

Episode Date: October 31, 2021

Text LEARNERS to 44222 for earyl access to my upcoming book... Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12    https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 In 2005, Rebecca Minkoff designed her first handbag, which she dubbed the "Morning After Bag. This iconic bag ignited Rebecca's career as a handbag designer and inspired the brands' expansion into a lifestyle brand in the years to come. Actress Jenna Elfman wore her "I Heart New York" shirt on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. Today, Rebecca Minkoff is a global brand with a wide range of apparel, handbags, footwear, jewelry, timepieces, eyewear, and fragrance. When Rebecca was 8 years old, she wanted her mom to buy her a dress. Her mom said, "no, but I'll teach you to sew." From that point, Rebecca was fascinated with the idea of buying things for herself. Rebecca doesn't love the word "mentor." She was forced to learn by doing. She moved at age 18. Became an intern and then a designer. Eventually, she started her own business. When Jenna Elfman wore her I heart NYC shirt on Jay Leno's show, it got her foot in the door. "When Jenna asked if I could make her a handbag, I lied and said I could do it." "I think everyone should get cozy with failure." Self Care: "Work can be self-care, too." She's particularly resistant to the notion that self-care can solve burnout — the feeling of acute exhaustion that has gained more attention recently. "There is no scented candle in the world that will make that feeling go away." Self-reflection cures burnout, she argues, not self-care. "You don't need to ask for permission. Don't seek permission. Just go for it." Rebecca learned from her mom to be genuinely herself. "I learned to be tough, resilient, and fight back from my mom." "Don't get scared to lead with strength." "Trying hard is not good enough. You must get results." Advice for future generations? "There are no shortcuts." "Failure is like a muscle. Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn." "Success is the ability to keep going." "The definition of happiness is overcoming barriers towards your goal."

Before we get to tonight's episode, I wanted to take a moment to recognize a legend. The great Bob Gregg, my high school football coach, he died last Sunday. He was 88 years old. And I would say, you know, outside of my parents and my brothers, that he has had more influence on my life than any other person in the world. And I think it's important to recognize people who have done that for you and appreciate it, you know, and think about the impact they've had on you and how grateful you are that they exist.

And as leaders that we have the potential opportunity. to be that for others. And Coach Greg got a hold of me when I was going into my freshman year. So I was an eighth grader leading up to the summer workouts. And I just expected to be a part of the freshman team. I was a pretty good player going into high school, but I wasn't even the best player on my team. But he came to me in the spring of my eighth grade year

and said, I'd like you to work out with, our high school guys, our varsity team going into the summer, just I think it could be good for you. He didn't promise me anything. He didn't say you'll be the starting quarterback as a freshman. In fact, I never thought that that was even in the realm of possibility. I thought maybe I could dress for games on Friday nights as a freshman. Like, that would be really cool, but I would play with the freshman team.

But he did something for me that I think it's pretty cool was he, believed in me and I think taught me what it means to work and prepare and to respond to adversity and the fact that a work ethic and dedication and a commitment to excellence can beat more talented teams. And then we went out on Friday night. under the bright lights and all of that work and all of that preparation came to bear for others to watch. And because of him and because of the great Ron Allery, our offensive coordinator who is another one of those mentors who means everything to me, we put up some staggering performances. And it all ties back to the leadership of Coach Greg. And

and his willingness to push and push and push and get us to perform at levels that we did not think we were capable of. I learned just about everything about what it means to be a leader from him. And I vividly remember going into the first game, my varsity, my freshman year, I was on the varsity team. And I wasn't starting as the quarterback, but he told me, he came to me before the game, and he said, you're going to play. And you're going to play meaningful minutes, and you're going to have to make plays for us. And he put me in early in the game, and I made a few good plays. I got settled in and felt like I belonged.

And he made me feel like I belonged. And the final drive of that game, we were losing. And he puts me in, and he said, execute the offense. I've seen you do it. I know you can do it. We called a play action pass, and I threw the game-winning touchdown to Neil Lobbs and the slot receiver streaking in the back of the end zone. I hit him, and we won.

I had not even stepped foot as a student in the school yet. Our first game was the Friday before school started, so I hadn't even gone to one day of class as a freshman, and I felt like he had just put me on top of the world, and he means everything to me. And I would, again, I just think it's important to note excellence. And especially the people who get a hold of you in your formative years. And he's a transformational leader. He's a transformational friend and mentor.

And by definition, a transformational leader changes you. It changed me and thousands of other people for, the better. So many of the students of Centralville High School, people who didn't even play for him talked about the impact he had on them as a teacher. And then all of us players, you know, I was fortunate to be a part of the team that helped him win his 300th game. And he gave a brief speech afterwards. And all he talked about was how fortunate he felt for the players and the assistant coaches and the parents of his players. He deflected. all praise, gave all of it to everybody else, even though he was the reason for all of that.

The decades of domination at Centerville, the tradition, rich history of the school, the Kirk Herb Streets and Mike Nugent's and A.J. Hawks and so many of the greats are because of Coach Greg. And I just thought it's worth it for me to publicly say how much I love him. and I'm missing. I'm just very, very grateful. Welcome to The Learning Leaders Show, presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here.

Text learners to 44222 to become part of Mindful Monday. You along with tens of thousands of other learning, leaders from all over the world will receive a carefully curated email from me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right. You'll also receive details about my new book coming out January 2022 and you'll also have the opportunity to read it first. Text learners. So 4-4-222. Now on to tonight's featured leader, a great one. It's Rebecca Minkoff in 2004. Rebecca designed her first handbag, which she dubbed the morning after bag. This iconic bag ignited Rebecca's career as a handbag designer and inspired the brand's expansion into a lifestyle

brand in the years to come. Today, Rebecca Minkoff is a global brand with a wide range of apparel, handbags, footwear, jewelry, timepieces, eyewear, and fragrance. In September of 2018, established the female founder collective, a network of businesses led by women who invest in women's financial power across a socioeconomic spectrum by enabling and empowering female-owned businesses. A few of the topics we discuss how she defines, quote, self-care and why it could be helpful for you to view it the same way. And then why she lied about what she was capable of early in her career in order to get opportunities. And then how she views permission and why you don't need it in order to take action. This one is lively. It's the

great Rebecca Minkoff. All right, Rebecca, it's really good to have you here on the learning leader show. As I mentioned before we started recording, this is, this is, I'm way outside of my comfort zone. I'm speaking with a fashion icon who makes purses and clothes and all types of cool stuff surrounded by a group of impressive ladies from Insight Global. But I just got to say welcome. And I'm so glad that you're here. Well, thank you for having me. And thanks everyone for tuning in. It's not every morning that I get to be live on a podcast with so many people. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. To get started, I was reading a ton about your story. And I thought, I don't always do this. But I want to start

when you were eight years old. And I read, I read that you, you were with your mom and you looked into a window and saw a dress and you wanted her to buy it for you. And she said no. Can you take this story over from there and tell me how this got your start into this world? Yeah. So I think every child, at least all my children, see something and expected to be purchased for them when they want it. I was the same way. And she said, no, but I'll teach you how to sew. And I was pissed. I was like, I don't want to learn how to sew. I just want that damn dress. but she took me home. We went to like Michaels or I don't even know Joanne Fabrics if that was around then.

And we got a Vogue pattern and we cut it out and made it. And I was so proud of that moment when I finished the dress and wore it that I sort of got hooked on the idea that I could create things for myself. And that love continued. And if you haven't bought my book yet, you should. But in the book, I talk about how, you know, as I got older and as I got bullied and felt isolated and didn't know what to do, I turned to that as my sort of, well, I can create anything. And that gave me a lot of confidence. And so it was something I continued

to seriously study during high school, which was a performing arts high school. So instead of electives, you had, you know, four hours a day dedicated to your craft. Theoretically, I was in the dance department, but they were like, you're too tall and your boobs are too big. And I was like, cool, design stuff then. And so spent a lot of my time studying the art and and techniques of design. And so that was kind of the beginning. And I felt this extreme desire that I had to get to New York. I only knew about New York because of my Hanukkah gift that I would get once a year. I was like, my mom would be like, you can choose one gift this year. What is it going to be? And I was like a subscription to Vogue. And then I would imagine what it would be like to be a designer in New York.

So I got my first taste in New York City when I was 16. And I don't know why my mom let me go with my boyfriend, but she did. We went alone. And I was like, this is where I need to be. So at 18, I said, I'm out. I'm going to go intern for this designer that my brother met at a party and see you guys later. And that was sort of how I got started. Wow.

One thing from your childhood, too, that I read that after you would make the dresses or make the clothes, you would either try to sell them at flea markets. And if they didn't sell there, you would actually go. door to door selling the things that you made. Is that, is that true? No, it's definitely not true. I don't know where you read that. It is true that I did go to flea markets. That's pretty cool. My mom would sell, this was the 80s, so just go with me, but she was selling cast covers that were like neon spandex with these crazy 80s prints. And I don't know why that was a thing to like cover your cast. So she would set up a table. And I was like, well, I want a table at

the flea market too. And I set up a table with my jewelry that I made. And I set up a table with my jewelry that I made and my puffy paint sweatshirts and no one bought anything. But it was so fun to imagine and prepare that whole week for the flea market. And then I enjoyed that just as much as I thought it would feel good to sell, even though I didn't sell anything. So, but I didn't go door to door. Gotcha. Okay. That's the only part. That's not true. You got to believe everything you read on the internet or Oh, always. No. I also. heard that that first internship you met an amazing mentor who it sounds like played a pivotal role. Can you share more about the impact that that mentor had on you when you were an intern? Yeah. I don't tend to like the word mentor. I feel like it sets up a lot of people to fail because they imagine and they put all their hopes and dreams into like one person that's going to, you know, give them the platter of success. What I will say is she,

taught me things by making me do them myself. You know, when I, so the structure of the company was, there was a CEO, and then there was the designer, and he was on the road all the time doing trunk shows. Like he was living a rock star life, essentially, with just always being gone and on the road meeting his customer. So when he said, yeah, you can intern for me. He handed me off to her. And my first day, she's like, oh, you're just another pretty girl.

He just said yes to. And I was like, I'm going to show you, lady, that I'm, not just another pretty girl. I'm smart and I can work my ass off. And so she really didn't ever sit down and say, I'm going to teach you or I'm going to help you. She was like shipping department, logistics department, finance department, PR, marketing, do this. And I had to figure it all out within the safety and comfort of that company. And I think it just forced me to learn how to be fluent in the business of fashion, sort of. I was not a great business person back then. But at least I understood the ecosystem of what it took. You can't just be a designer if you want to start your

own company. You have to know a lot of other things. And so while she was very supportive, it was more of this tough love. And I feel like my mom was tough love. She was tough love. The lady then who was our first showroom was tough love. And I think that is a far better form of learning than someone, you know, sitting with you, spoon feeding you, you know, your next steps. Because I think you, you can only get there if you do it and you figure it out. How do you do this now? So you're both a parent and a leader within a business. And I know as a dad, this is really hard to, when I know I could fix it or I know I could

do it or I know I could pick them up when they fall off the bike, but I know I have to stop because that's the way you learn. How have you taken what you've learned from earlier in your career, both personally and professionally, to understand this value of tough love? because I think it's one thing to say it. It's one thing for all of us who had to go through it because our parents did it or our bosses or mentors, whoever did it for us. But now that you're in that position, how are you implementing what you've learned to help kind of practice this tough love style with the people that you're leading? It's a fascinating thing becoming a parent.

And as much as I hated how my mom in the moment, how my mom made us work for everything we wanted and earn it and figure it out. And, you know, I always was like, why can't I just have a stage mom that does everything? everything for me. Like I'm so jealous of the stage moms, you know, that I, that I know. And I'm doing that with my kids. The difference is, and I don't know how you feel. And if anyone's familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk, like, I'll tell my daughter, oh, you want that. You got to earn it. And she's like, I don't need it. And I'm like, no, no, no. Where's your work ethic? Why don't you want to work hard for this thing? And Gary Vaynerchek said, he had a similar upbringing, right? So he said the baseline was so far lower of comfort that you knew you had to work for it, but you,

you know, successful designer lives in New York City. Even if I'm not spoiling them, which I don't, the baseline is so much higher that they don't have that need for that. So I'm trying to figure out how to make them feel that fire. And I say no all the time. And the minute I say no, I'm like, I'm hurting them. That's what that's what my gut says, even though the words no, are coming out of my mouth. And then I have to like, no, no, this is helping them. So I'm trying to, to stick to my guns and making sure that I continue to do that, even if my daughter's like, oh, I don't need that or I don't want that bad enough. But I don't have it figured out totally yet on the on the child front. I don't know anyone who does. We're all work in progress. It's so,

it's so, so hard. And I feel like an idiot, basically 99% of the time. I want to get back to the to the beginning of your career because after that internship, I believe you were kind of nudged out the door saying like Rebecca, you're ready to go. It's time to go. Can you share more about that time in your career when you left that job and kind of went out on your own? Yeah. So I moved when I was 18. I worked there for six months as a paid intern minimum wage. I think it was like four, 25 an hour. It might have been 325. And then I said, I think you should hire me. I think I've proven myself and I want a real job here. And so she said, you're right. I'll hire you. And, And she put me in the design department because that's what she knew I wanted to learn.

And so I worked under the head designer for about two and a half years and pre-internet, pre-ability to be distracted on your phone. I would furiously get my work done. And then I had a couple hours at the end of the day where I was like twiddling my thumbs and I would go around the office. And if everyone said they didn't need my help, I would work on my own thing. And she was cool with that. And she could see that I began to be more excited and energized by.

working on my own thing than the passion I was bringing to the office. And so basically, September 2001, I was making all my own things. I was trying to figure out how I was going to sell them. I had made this I Love New York shirt that I'd cut up and DIYed, which was a thing back then. Let's hope it never comes down to that again. And an actress asked for this shirt. I sent her on September 9th, 2001. I had my first group fashion show September 10th. There was really famous people in the audience, like my parents and other people's parents in the audience.

And then the next day, I was at a cotton seminar, learning all about the benefits of cotton. And a woman comes in and she's like hysterically freaking out. She's like, someone's hit the towers, the towers have fallen. I was like, what is she talking about? Can she just continue? on with the most boring seminar like I've ever been at because I want to go. And then we all realized obviously what happened several, you know, minutes later. And I was like, okay, I guess what I did just

doesn't matter, which it clearly didn't. And I focused my efforts for that moment for those first few weeks on the relief effort being one of the first volunteers downtown. And, you know, when I surfaced again a couple of weeks later, two things happened. Jenna wore my t-shirts. on Jay Leno, Jenna Elfman. She's on Fear the Walking Dead now, but she was on Darmine Greg, if you are all old enough to remember that show. And he asked her about the shirt and she said my name. And because people were looking to galvanize around 9-11, the amount of inbound requests for that shirt was overwhelming, people wanting it. And my boss at the time was like, I can see that you are ready to do this.

You either need to dedicate 100% of your emotion to this and this company or you got to go. And I think I know the answer. So you have to go. And I was like, but wait. No, it's good. I won't do this. And she was like, no, no, we're done. But she said, you know, I'm here for you.

So that was scary and hard. It was just after 9-11. It's not like companies were hiring very easily. Like, where was I going to get a job? And I said, screw it. I'm just going to give this a shot. I'm busy all day making these t-shirts. It's not enough money to really live.

I'm avoiding my roommate and paying rent, but let's see where this takes me. And so what that did at that moment was it didn't propel me into some like rags to riches story. But what it did was it allowed me to get my foot in the door. It allowed me to call a boutique and say, I don't just have a t-shirt. I have a whole line and they didn't hang up the phone.

And so I always talk about those little, doors that are like partially open and you know if you have that opportunity to kick them open like that's when you can really have uh inroads into places where you might not you know you might just walk past that door but i was like no no no we're gonna i'm gonna try and see what happens so you you got a little bit lucky right you made the shirt so you had to take action jena then wears it on tv back when tv really moved things and at that moment once it started you had your moment of going viral. And a weird time, though, when we were scared in 9-11 and it was crazy. And certainly New York City was galvanized. And your shirt was one of the things that helped. Do you remember,

like, what were your days like leading up? Were you just trying, were you making them like one at a time? Did you have to find a way to get a made? Like, what were you doing in order to fulfill all of the demand for that shirt? I would bike my little janky ass bike that I bought used down the canal street, negotiate as best I could with the tourist vendors and then get the shirts, bring them home, cut them up, and then again at that time people wanted everything bedazzled. So I would iron on the stones one by one to that heart, which I'll never forget, until I found a company that pre-made the hearts and then you can just slap it on and iron it on. So that's what I did all day.

and I had one website that I sold through. And basically I said to her, I was like, I don't have the money to pre-buy all this stuff. Like, you need to give me an advance. And she saw the hunger. She saw the dedication. And she's like, cool, we can make that deal. So she would write me a check in advance, which would allow me to have the funds to sort of go make all those items. So after that, though, then you try to make the most of your luck that.

Like I said, it's not just luck. that you had an opportunity and you made the most of it. But I heard that it tough times followed before your first, the morning after bag, which is kind of the first product that went crazy from your handbag line. What was it like between the t-shirt and getting the morning after bag made and out into the world? It was an extraordinary humbling time. I had the clothing line. You know, it was something that I did that. And then I had the fortuitous meeting with a director who, again, was friends with Jenna. All roads lead to Jenna, by the way.

That'll be a theme you'll hear again and again. And he basically, we were at dinner and he said, I need a stylist for a shoot. You know, have you ever done this? And I just lied. And I said, yeah, yeah, I've done shoots. I lied to her too when she asked me to do a bag for her. So sometimes lying is a good thing. if it gets you to the next step of your path.

And so after lying to him that I was a great stylist, he said, okay, this is the shoot. You have to dress these ESPN hosts in these costumes. And he was like, I have $1,000 for you. And I was so used to making nothing that $1,000 was like, oh, my God, he's going to give me $1,000 for like 10 days of work. I didn't quite do the math on how that works out. And so I did a great job.

And he just started hiring me for everything. So that made it so that I could continue to do the apparel that I was doing. It was a very small business. At its height, I think I was doing probably $250,000 a year, which if you do some quick math, if you're lucky to make a 10% profit, that's 25 grand. And I was not lucky enough to make a profit because I didn't properly set up anything business-wise. So I was losing money.

And I was reaching the point where I was like, I think I'm going to be a waitress. because they make really good money, especially if you're around like a busy bar or whatever. So I was actively pursuing that as my big career shift. And I sat down with Jenna. I was in L.A. And I was at like the end of my rope. And she said, do you do bags? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I do bags.

Of course. And she's like, cool. I need one in two weeks. And it's for a character and a film. And the bag is going to be on that character, a majority. of the film. And I was like, this is my chance. This is my moment. If I actually make this happen, maybe this will be a way for me to be successful. So prior to that, I was, I was about $60,000 in debt. And again, considering like, okay, maybe I'm not meant to be a designer. Wow. And then you make

that was that, was that the morning after bag, the first one that you made? It was the morning after bag. And the story of that is another small, tiny failure. which I think everyone should get cozy with failure, but it didn't make the movie. Spoiler alert. FedEx delivered it two hours like to set, and I'll never forget her assistant called and was like, it's not here.

We started shooting with another bag. And I was like, I felt like I had been punched in the gut. And I was begging them to switch the bag. She's like, we can't. And I had made two samples, one for her, one for me, because I was going to use the one I had as sort of sending it out to press once the movie came out.

And I was like, well, I guess I'll just wear the bag now. Like, there's no point in keeping it all nice and pretty. And enough women stopped me. On the street, just random people, where'd you get that bag? Love that bag. It was brown with crocodile, like a faux bronze crocodile trim

and a turquoise zipper. If you Google the Catwalk of Shame from Daily Candy, that's the article, that again, propelled me. So enough people stopped me and a friend of mine was a buyer at a store in L.A. A pretty influential store in L.A. It was called Soutine. And she said, I tell you what I'm going to do.

I love this bag so much. I'm going to put 12 in the store. And I'm going to have my friend at Daily Candy write about it. Does everyone remember Daily Candy? Raise your hands. No? Oh, my gosh. Okay.

2005, Daily Candy was when you actually looked forward to email when it was still a treat and you had like five emails in your inbox. Daily Candy was an email-based newsletter, the first of its kind. That was like the newest, hottest, latest, just one thing. And anything that they wrote about became viral and a huge hit. So at the time, it was a big celebrity wearing your bag could propel you, Oprah and Daily Candy. And so Daily Candy wrote about the bag and the store sold out in about an hour of this bag. And then they reordered 75 units.

And I was like, oh, shit. shit we are on to something here finally i got some momentum that's not just me like pushing you know alone um and i didn't have the money to make those 75 bags so i called my dad i was like can you help me and he's like you already have a credit card bill of 60 grand that you don't even know how you're going to pay no i'm not going to help you um which was not was was not a surprise to me because again my parents told me no my whole life um he said call your brother he might be able to help you So that was the beginning of, you know, the brand we know today, Rebecca Minkoff, when my brother said, okay, I'll loan you the money to do this first run. And then that sold out. And then I came back to him for more money.

And then the next one sold out. And he could see a consistent momentum that he was like, oh, maybe there's something here. So that's when he started informally helping me. But today he's a CEO and my co-founder. Is it weird having the brand and your name be the same thing? Like, do you wish at times they were, they were separated or what do you think about that? I've been being asked that question a lot lately. You know, in the beginning, you are the brand. And it's everything that you want and you decide. And then when you begin to have a mature business,

it can't just be about only what I like and only what I decide. I have a very wide customer base and I have, you know, the pinnacle of the product. and then I have the watered down product down to the watch straps that we sell. And so if I had to either oversee every single one of those details but also go, would I wear that? As long as it matches the aesthetic of the brand and what we stand for and ties back to it, I think that's where that is the healthiest balance. And as my interest can diverge, I have to make sure that that doesn't take the brand off course. If at home I'm crunchy hippie who likes to recycle everything and I'm really into health and wellness,

but that has nothing to do with necessarily why a woman buys my bags, I need to be able to separate those two. And so I've had to separate what's me personally that is important for my life and my personal progress. What makes sense for the brand? So they share the same name, but they are, you know, one is a, and they benefit off each other. But they can't just be only what I want all the time because in every child I have and every zig that I do, I can't just take this brand with me on all those personal things that I might be experiencing. Does that make sense? Yeah, I want to dig into your book and I'm going to open up for questions here in a second,

but because I think this is a really hot topic and you have an interesting viewpoint on it. And that's self-care. And there are books and tons of articles about burnout and taking care of yourself, especially through the pandemic and now of whatever's going on, of if you're going to an office or not or how many hours you're working. And I think you have an interesting perspective on self-care. Can you share how you view burnout self-care and your overall philosophy on this? Yes.

So all I have to do is go back to those beginning years where I worked. And even up to when I had my kid, I worked all the time. I didn't have a typical 20 to 29 year old social life. I didn't go to the Hamptons, like all these youth that I employ do. I didn't go to the clubs. I mean, maybe I did a little bit. I was working all the time. And I never once thought to myself, oh, I'm burnt out.

Like sometimes I feel like the. label makers make up these labels for us to then adopt and then label ourselves with a problem. When you think the people mining coal or the people in Africa who have to like forge for food, you know, like they're not going like, oh, man, I'm burnt out. You know, I think it's a very privileged viewpoint to say that. And so what I look at, you know, and I talk about this in the book is let's start with some self-reflection. You know, you clearly, if you love what you do, the pay, the reward for that is the joy of accomplishing these goals that you have. And if you've lost your passion, you're going to feel burnt out.

If you work in a toxic work environment, you might feel burnt out. If there is a toxic person around you, you might feel burnt out. So self-reflect and go, is it that I no longer love what I do? Is it the environment? Like, what is the thing? Because in the book, my quote is like, there's no scented candle in the world that's going to cure your burnout. You're still going to wake up Monday morning being like, I don't want to fucking go to work.

I hate this. You can still get a massage and those are nice things. And I don't mean by no means don't take care of yourself. But those things aren't going to solve the root of it. And so I like to get to the root of things as I think that's probably what does the most good. And so, you know, I've lost my passion and I talk about this in the book many times. And I had to get to the root of why did I lose my passion? You know, after a maternity leave, I didn't want to go back to work.

And it's not because I wanted to be with my kid. I was just like, I hate what the office has become. I hate some of the people here that have decided that while I'm out, they're going to do things their own way. And I hated the culture that it had created. And that made me hate going there and being in that environment. And as soon as that person was out of the environment, I was like, oh, good. We're back.

I'm excited again. And so I think everyone has a different situation. but if you can isolate what that is and then work towards it. And just because you identify, it doesn't mean it's going to go away overnight. You might have lost your passion completely. And you're like, I don't know what I want to do. Well, that might take some months to figure out what is it you want to do. Or is there a path you have to follow with your HR leader to change courses?

It won't change overnight. But I think if you're working towards it, you'll feel reinvigorated again. Yeah, you mentioned your book. And I highly recommend people get it. There's 21 rules, and I'm just going to hit the first one, and then I'm going to go to you, mustard, to ask the first question here, but rule one's about permission. And I think this is something that can be an issue. Can you share more about giving yourself permission?

Yes. You know, we talked earlier about kids, and we make them ask permission for everything. And then we get into our adult life and you're like, do you think I should do that? I have this idea. What do you think? And I think that as adults, we've taken that habit into seeking approval from others to follow our path, whether it's our friends, our partners, work associates. You need to just say to yourself, at the end of the day, it's you.

And that's it. And so if you have a goal or a dream or a passion, do not seek permission from others. Seek permission from yourself to just say, fuck it, I'm going after my dream. And if I fail, I'll get back up again because nine, 90% of us are going to fail. I fail every day. And sometimes it's just, you know, I think it's chapter 20. Sometimes it's just the fact that you get back up that determines your success.

And it might not be the path you originally envisioned. If you look at, there's so many examples of companies that started out of something different. Airbnb, Instagram, Uber, like all these companies had a different goal and pivoted. So just because what you do doesn't work, mean that it's a failure just might mean you need to tweak it. There's an iOS update. How often? They're constantly tweaking and improving. So you might have to do that personally, professionally, to keep to keep going. I love it. And I think it's much needed to hear from someone who's actually done it. And there's this E plus R equals O equation that's been spoken about. It's the event

plus your response, how you choose to respond, which is going to determine the outcome. That's the E plus R equals the O. And I think that's your kind of living proof of that, Rebecca. It's really cool. I want to introduce to Elizabeth Musser. Musler, Muser, an amazing leader here at Insight Global. And I think she's got the first question for you. Thanks, Ryan.

Hey, Rebecca. First of all, this is so cool. Thank you so much. The amount of texts that we are all going back and forth right now, I'm being like, this is so awesome. She's hilarious. So this is just really cool. But your story is so impressive.

Your energy is really impressive. It's just amazing what you've accomplished. But what's really standing out to me is that you're still so genuinely you. And I think that as women in business, that is something that is easily pulled. You walk into a room and you feel like you need to be someone else. there's a certain point in your life that you learn you need to be you in order to make it. Are there any practices that you've created and put into place or advice you have on how to continue to be confidently you throughout your career?

I don't know that it's a conscious practice. I will say this. You know, and I don't want to give all the credit to my mom here. But when she, when it was two older brothers and then when they had me, this is again before you could see the melting wax babies and know everything about your kid, they were like, oh, it's a girl when I came out. And so she made it this fine point to teach me to be tough and resilient and fight back. So I've always felt not intimidated, let's just say, by being in a room of men.

I grew up, you know, there was boys in my house all the time, and I would fight back if I had to. And so I think the signal thing that made me go, oh, I never want to be that. type of person was within the fashion industry specifically. I can't speak to every industry. It's not men versus women. It's women versus women. And it's women throwing each other under the bus. It is like there can only be one designer or one editor in chief. And like, I am in awe sometimes at the chess board that has come into my company many times and been played. And I was whatever, whatever one that gets taken all the time and thrown down. And I'm like, wow. these women have become so smart at playing this chess board. And I hated the feeling that created

in me. I hated the effect it had in others. I hated the feeling of meeting someone I had admired and been like, wow, they're a bitch. Why are, you know, they could care less that I'm a fan and I care. And I was like, I just vow to never be that person. And yes, it's great to be successful. But I need to stay humble because I never want to create the effect that I'm. I've experienced so many times. And so that is, I guess, more my mantra. And every time I catch myself doing it, you know, let's just say there was a year where I went to 30 different department stores like over two months and met like four to

500 women at each clip. And by the end, I was like, I'm so sick of fucking meeting people and the fake smile and shaking their hands. I just want to get home to my kids, you know? And then I just have to go, stop. You are here because of these women. you are here because they care, listen to them, get to know them. And I just, you know, repeat that. And so for me, that's what I, that's what I do is I just repeat that anytime I'm

feeling that like, I just want to go or whatever, whatever happens. I love it. It's, it's super refreshing to, and I think from a leadership perspective, you just want to follow a person that's being true to themselves. And we can all tell when people are faking it. And I sense what Musa is saying and what others are feeling from you, Rebecca, is just this sense of you are, you have this comfort in your skin because you've done some probably self-reflective work to know who you are. And that's really cool. Next is. The other thing? Yeah, go ahead. I forgot. I think the other thing that helped me crystallize because women could get told they're bitchy for being demanding or I even had many years ago an employee be like, are you in your period? And I was like, no, I'm not on my

period, you have to get this work done. I'm disappointed. You didn't. So I think that we can, we can tend as women to get scared about leading with strength. And I spent many years thinking the answer to my culture within my company was to be like the cozy mom figure and the nurturing type and the one that stands up for everybody that did nothing for my culture or for my staff. I just became like the office therapist. And then I became deeply embedded in he said, she said. And we had this consultant come in and he said, you pay money out of your own pocket every day for someone to show up for work. And if they're trying hard, that's not good enough.

They either come and they get the job done or they don't. And the people that keep trying hard and working so hard and it's just not happening, you've got to get rid of them and get rid of them fast. And so that changed my viewpoint as a leader that if I'm paying you at a money that I could be giving myself or someone else to do the job. and you're not cutting it, you know, I'll give you a couple of chances, but I'm not going to just sit there and like be your mother. There's a time to be a mother and that's my kids. And there's a time to be a boss that has expectations that you should meet if you're coming and collecting money.

And so that sort of feed me up from the fear of like leading with strength and demanding things. And I'm sure if you asked a couple of my staff this last fashion week, I was really tough because I was so tired of the ball being dropped. And I was like, you know what? She can think I'm a bitch because she didn't do her job and we are relying on her to do her job. And so that whatever is like, no, if I'm being tough, it doesn't mean I'm a bitch. It means you were falling short somewhere. And so I had to sort of get rid of like, you know, maybe they'll go on glass door and write something about me. That's fine. We had to get the job done. So that's just another angle to it that I wanted to mention. The standard is a standard. You have expectations. I imagine knowing the type of person you.

you are, you're not holding anyone to any standard that you're not holding yourself to. So it's like, this is where we need to be. The next person I want to interest you to is Lindsay Miller. Lindsay has a good question for you. Lindsay, take it away. Yeah, hi, Rebecca. This is exactly what Elizabeth said. This is super exciting and just honestly, one of the coolest things I feel like we've ever done.

So thank you for taking the time. I guess, you know, what advice slash tip would you give to the future generation of female leaders? The biggest thing I talked about is this, the biggest thing that I talk about is this younger generation thinks that when they do this, they get whatever they want. And it happens instantly. You can get your Amazon, your Uber. You can get a lot of things overnight. Your career is not one where I can tell you about a shortcut. You know, you don't get to be CEO after three months.

You might not raise money in your first venture or second or third. You might get 99 knows before you get one yes. And I feel like young people are far to instant gratification oriented. And I've been at this for 16 years. And I'm still not where I want to be. And it's not because it's never enough. I just think we have to adjust our time horizon in our careers and know that it's going to go like this. And so don't be shocked or dismayed when it's like this because it's part of it.

It makes that top so much sweeter. when you've come from the bottom. And that's what I would tell, younger leaders. Love it. Thank you, Lindsay. Allison, are you good to go? Fire away. Yeah.

Again, thank you so much, Rebecca, for this. This is incredible. But I actually kind of have two questions. And Lindsay, I'm going to steal one of, I'm going to kind of combine ours. But she asked just about keeping up with trends, how do you reinvent yourself and stay true to yourself? But my question also,

are then dealt with as sustainable fashion as becoming a very hot topic in the industry, how is your company adapting and again, staying true to your brand and who you are? So I think that technology has been something that has allowed us to reach our customer. It's frankly why we are here and again to date myself. You know, in 2005, we were the only brand talking to our consumer. No designer should have done that. we were told we were told by heads of the stores you all shop in don't do this it's dirtying you don't use bloggers they're d-less celebrities why do you have them sitting in your front row like

anytime we did an advance in technology we were told we're crazy whatever and it wasn't until 2016 where a consultant said to us whenever you try and follow the pack you lose and whenever you go your own way, you win. And when he painted enough examples of how we had used technology, I was like, oh, cool, this backpack comes off. We're going to free fall. And so today, you know, we stay very on top of what we're doing. We just launched, you know, during the pandemic, we were one of the first fashion companies to launch, launch text messaging, which you probably all have a million brands texting you all the time. But since we were one of the first, we got a huge market share and it became a huge part of our direct consumer sales. We're through the platform that

we used this last fashion week. We sold NFTs, digital garments, which sold out in nine minutes, which, scary or not, 80% of gamers are women. And I think there is a whole wide world of advertising, branding, experiential that can exist in the metaverse, as they call it. So to be able to sell digital clothing that no one can wear and sell out in nine minutes, is something that we see, okay, the future is there. You're going to play your video game with your Rebecca Minkoff outfit, and then maybe that same outfit arrives at your front door. And so we just make it a point to always be innovating,

even if it doesn't work. One funny story I like to tell that didn't work was when many years ago, again, when social media was still new, my brother's big idea was like, at our fashion show, we'll have the Twitter hashtag RM, I don't know, New York Fashion Week projected and it'll be so cool. Everyone will start tweeting and we'll show everyone and what they're experiencing. He forgot to do a couple more forward thinking steps and didn't realize that if the tag went viral, then interesting things happen.

And so we started getting nude pictures and inappropriate comments and we couldn't shut the screen down and a thousand people got to see it. So, you know, with all of our innovation can sometimes sound big failure. But also, I think we've realized that when we take these risks, we're better off for it. Because no matter what, something was, a boundary was pushed. In 2018, you co-founded a network of business owners called the Female Founder Collective. Can you share more of what that is all about, why you did it and how that's going? Yes. So I felt incredibly lonely as a founder and I felt like I was very frustrated with the echo chamber of women complaining about pay gap, the glass ceiling.

I was like, we're all complaining. Some of us are marching and nothing is fucking changing. Like name one change that's happened from all this talking to ourselves. And so I was like, what is the thing that changes this? Money. Money changes the power dynamic. And I have to, I have to hope that when women are in power and making more. money. We're not just reinvesting in a yacht or our Rolexes, but in the community,

in equal pay for other women, in different scenarios where, you know, people who choose to have babies, you know, have more success with an empathetic lens. And so I was like, let me just start a community for founders and see what happens. We can share each other's tips, our black books, our failures, war stories. And then also separately to that, let's make a seal. that you know you're supporting a woman-owned brand when you purchase that item for products and services. So I launched it in September of 2018 with no strategy, no plan, just like this should be.

And we very quickly had about 300,000 applications in the course of a month. Since then, we've grown it to be a real education platform. So it's founders, teaching founders. It's not some dusty professor who hasn't been in the workforce in a long time. teaching you had to run a business. It's a woman who's like been there, done that and had a successful business. And we become a community platform as well. We have a women-owned business

directory. So we're trying to hit it at several ways. Like shop women-owned, you know, don't go to Starbucks anymore. You know, go one block further and go to that women-owned coffee shop or on Amazon. You know, yes, it's easier to arrive tomorrow, but like, let's let's see if it's women-owned first. And then let's all continue our education because I started my business with a passion, as so many founders have. And I needed the business side. And I'm not going to go back to school in my mid-20s with a kid. But if I could get the exact thing that I need for where I'm in that business from another

woman, that would be incredibly helpful. So we have about 12,000 members now. We just launched a paid platform because we want to go deeper on the education piece, the mentorship piece for people that want to raise money. So if you are a founder and you own 51% of your company, please apply. Wow. It's awesome. The community building aspect of it, I think is like such a rewarding feeling.

What's that been like that you've been the catalyst for this building of such a cool community? I think for me, my favorite things are reading the women that write in. We did a cohort, a five-month cohort for 50 women. and they've gone on to raise over $20 million because of what we did. And that's money they might have never raised. You know, there's a woman who's part of the community who has her own community on Facebook that I originally met with her when I was launching this. And I was like, give me your best tips on how to do this.

And I was like, of anyone, you have had success. You have 500 people that pay 500 bucks a month for whatever you're giving them. And it's virtual. And my mind was blown with that. and then for her to write in to tell me, like, I need this community so badly. Thank you for what you're doing. You know, it just means a lot when I hear that stuff because I just have to hope that no offense to you, Ryan, but women are going to do it better.

And when we do it better, we give back in meaningful in more in ways that just aren't about, you know, when I want to give back, it's not just about, sorry, when I have success, I don't just want it for me. I want it for others. And I have to hope that other women feel that way too. I love it. It just reverberates to so many people. Natalie Brooks, I'm going to introduce you to Rebecca.

Go ahead to ask your question. Hi, Rebecca. I have taken so many notes and wrote down so many of your quotes. I cannot wait to get your book so I can read it as well. But I really especially loved when you said everyone should get cozy with failure. And I wrote that in the chat. And I've heard you say over and over. again how you fail every day and you've given great examples of what those failures are.

And this at home with me specifically because I gave a speech to our company as a leader about really struggling with failure and wanting to be a perfectionist. And I, you know, stood up to the company and told everyone how it's okay to not be okay and it's okay to fail. And I meant that so much in the moment, but I have to be honest. I like have relapses with that, right, where I go back to really struggling when I fail or really being challenged by that. And I would love to know just kind of the actions that you take either with yourself or outwardly to the company when you do make failures and any tips that you have to overcome those. Yes. I liken failure to a muscle. You know, the more I would love an ab, just one.

I don't need a six-pack. I would just love one. But I have to. to go to the gym every day or frankly I have to do sit-ups which I don't do to get that app and so for me failure is I look at it as a muscle you're going to fail again let's go back to the label makers who market to us that we should never fail or failure is you know if you fail you did something horribly wrong we're only human we're going to make a lot of mistakes and so the quicker you can recover from it you know the the more likely you are to learn something so in the book, I go, sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. And a perfect example is we had this big fashion week activation. My team wanted a certain photographer that they felt like would really

encapsulate what we did with these NFTs. I was Ms. No at all. And I was like, nope, we're going to use this woman. She got to set. She hated the project. I was like, I'm not sure why you agree to do this if you hated the idea. It couldn't have been a bigger failure that was really expensive. in terms of we fixed it and it's all good. But I literally just had to go, guys, that was me. I'm sorry. I fucked up. And so maybe a couple years ago, it would have been like, well, you did this and you

wanted that. And I didn't agree. And now I just turned the finger and I admit it. And I admit it as quickly as possible. And it also takes the resentment, the buildup if you are a leader of like, oh, she's never wrong. She never made some mistakes. And now I'm like, guys, just want to let you know, I fucked up big.

and I've learned from it. And when you feel that passionately about something as a whole vision, I'm going with you. And it's really freeing, actually, to start admitting that you're wrong. And so, you know, now I just admit when I'm wrong. And then I don't just admit that I'm wrong and wallowing it. I act, you know, my team felt like I should have given a toast after Fashion Week. And I was upset about something else that had nothing to do with it.

And I was like, fuck it. I'm not giving a toast. And someone said something. And I was like, shit, I'm going. right now to go to get champagne and donuts. And then I did a toast. And I was like, sorry about earlier, guys. I was really upset about something not related. And I should have thanked you. And so I think the more, the quicker you can admit it and take responsibility for it, then it's just like the upset and the charge that people might feel kind of dissipates.

And then they're like, wow, okay, she's changed. Oh, I will listen to her now, you know. That's what I. Yeah. Oh, I appreciate it. Rebecca. One more question. Let's go to Emma. Emma Garber. Here is Rebecca. Fire away. Hi, Rebecca.

In listening to you today, it's so clear you are direct and straightforward, which I love and appreciate. But how do you think that has helped and hurt you if you could maybe share some of those lessons? I don't know if it was a story, light bulb moment. I've always been direct. How that hurts you is that sometimes people don't like that manner. They don't, they, they, you know, my brother and I couldn't be more different.

He will pussyfoot around an issue and take forever to get there. And I'm like, spit it out. Just bombing it out. And so I think that to people who are more reserved and careful, that can be hard for them to handle. I think that, you know, everyone has a different mentality. And so, you know, and different energy levels that they can either agree to and vibe off of or not. And so I probably say things sometimes and then I go, oh, I probably put a little bit, a little bit less direct in how I gave that feedback or whatever.

But I also have to just embrace who I am and I'm straightforward and direct. And if I get into trouble, I can apologize. But yeah, I don't know if that answers the question fully. No, I think so. You're not apologetic for it. I love it. Yeah, you are. I think we, yeah, as Courtney said, we really appreciate your authenticity. I think any, and when I think about the leaders that I want to follow that I want to commit to that I want to say, I'm going, I'm going that direction with that person.

If I sense that they're not real, I struggle with that. You know what I mean? We all can think of that boss or that coach or that teacher, that person that was like that because they felt like they were trying to become what they thought they needed to be as opposed to leaning in. into who they were. That doesn't mean we're not trying to get better. Doesn't mean we're not trying to learn. Doesn't mean we're not trying to improve. But it all, it means that we, we do understand being authentic.

And that's what I think we yearn for. Rebecca, we're right at time. I'm so grateful that, that you did this. And it was so cool to do it in this manner. I honestly, I was a little nervous how I would do. But it didn't matter because you guys were all so good. So I'm really appreciative. It's really cool.

I would urge everyone by the book, Fearless, the new rules for unlocking creativity, courage, and success. You've obviously worked really hard at it, Rebecca, and it's pretty cool that you got this work out into the world. Thank you so much for doing it. Thank you so much for having me. And I hope you guys enjoy the new bags you're going to get and definitely get the book. I called it fearless, not because you're going to read it and be like, I have no fear.

you're going to just have the fear. You're going to know it's a hardwired emotion that is meant to keep us safe from bears and late night killers. But we don't need to take that fear into our personal and professional lives and allow it to stop us. And it isn't a self-help book. It is just a business guidebook that gives you like very clear, concise lessons of like when you are feeling that fear.

You're like, all right, I have to apply this now and apply this now. So as a leader, I think it's a great book. I'm biased because I wrote it. But thank you all for your time and tuning in. Awesome. Well, Rebecca, I'd certainly love to continue our dialogue as you both for rest. This was so much fun. Thank you.

All right, thanks. See you. Well, going into this one, I have to admit I was a bit nervous. I knew I would be surrounded by a number of amazing leaders from Insight Global as well as Rebecca. And I just had to say it was so much fun to see the positive. body language and the smiles and the excitement and enthusiasm from those amazing women leaders from Insight Global. And certainly Rebecca did not disappoint. I wasn't sure what to expect, but wow, she was lively and ready to go. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. A few topics

from my notes. I love the quote, everyone should get cozy with failure. In fact, if you're not failing every once in a while, if you're not stumbling from time, to time, I think that means you're not pushing hard enough. And certainly Rebecca has built her business and her career because of this mantra. And then when she was asked if she could do something earlier in her career, she would lie and say, yeah, I can do that. And then figure it out later. And I think this takes amazing guts. But she's living proof of how it has paid off and why I don't always think it's a good idea to lie. I do think it's a good idea to sign up for things that you're not 100% sure you can do and then figure it out as you go. And then I think when we talked about

burnout and self-care, she said that's a privileged view. And I think what she said definitely goes against the norm of what we hear today and how Rebecca mentioned, we should instead start with self-reflection. Let's pause and analyze our situation. And sometimes, work can be a form of self-care. Once again, I just want to say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey, you should listen to this episode with Rebecca Minkoff. She'll help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that, and because you continue to write reviews on Apple

podcast and rate the show five stars, hopefully, you are giving me the opportunity to do would I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can't wait.