The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 450: Stan Johnson - Living Your Core Values, Building Culture, & Developing Leaders

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Starting point is 00:01:26 That's storyworth.com slash leader. Welcome to The Learning Leaders Show presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text learners to 44222 to become part of Mindful Monday. You along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world will receive a carefully curated email from me. each Monday morning to help you start your week off right.

Starting point is 00:02:03 You'll also receive details about how you can read an excerpt of my new book, The Pursuit of Excellence, for free if you text learners to 4422. Now on to tonight's feature leader, the great Stan Johnson, head coach for the men's basketball team at Loyola Marymont University. As a child, he lived in Wendon, war-torn Liberia and moved to the United States after being held at gunpoint when he was just 10 years old. He has a remarkable life story. During this conversation, we discuss having weekly culture meetings with your team, how and why Stan does this and how you can do the same. And then

Starting point is 00:02:52 his three core values and why they are must have qualities to be part of his team. And we discussed holding people accountable. This has become harder in recent years, and we shared some great ideas on how to do this better. Ladies and gentlemen, this one is so good. It's Stan Johnson. All right, Stan, it's great to have you here

Starting point is 00:03:17 on the Learning Leader Show. Welcome, man. Appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me. Big fan of yours. Oh, thank you. It's funny how I came to know you. Greg Yunkovsky, one of your assistant coaches. I met him, I think four or five years ago. He was was an assistant coach at University of Cincinnati at the time, basketball coach. And we kind of became fast friends as he told me he liked the podcast. I invited him to a workshop I was throwing

Starting point is 00:03:40 him. I remember Greg showed up. Everyone's in like really formal business attire. And he's wearing UC basketball shorts. And he walks in like he kind of owned the room and I just love the guy. So anyway, he said, you've got to talk to Stan Johnson, our head coach here at LMU. You'll love this guy and he's perfect for your show. So I think it's really neat how how people, can be brought together by mutual friends. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Greg's a heck of a guy, and that story doesn't surprise me. And I'm happy to have me on my staff.

Starting point is 00:04:10 I think Greg's going to be a guy that, you know, years from now, people will be talking about one of better head coaches in the country. He's very talented, and, you know, I really trust him. So I'm glad he connected to both of us. Me too, me too. So I was digging into your story, Stan, and I read something that you had said shortly after you got, job there. And it really kind of knocked me on my back. I'm going to say it to you. And I love to

Starting point is 00:04:36 hear your reaction to it. And maybe you can expand on it. Is that cool? Yeah, absolutely. You said, I escaped a war at 10. I come from really the gutter in this business. I don't come from a tree. I was at gunpoint at 10 years old with 15 year olds holding M16s. We got evacuated on a war jet on a mining strip. We came to this country with three bags. That stuff, I think, think has helped shape me for this task that I have. Wow, take me inside your upbringing and what that was like. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, my dad's from Liberia, West Africa. My mom's from the States, and my dad went to mining school, Montana Tech, met my mom there. And he moved back to Liberia at a young age. You know, I was born there. My siblings who were younger were born there.

Starting point is 00:05:26 But yeah, at the age of 10, you know, there was a civil unrest in the country. and, you know, you had these militant groups that came in and took over and they came into our city, which was really a kind of a German community, mining community. And yeah, man, had us the gunpoint. And, you know, we had to get evacuated by the American government. You know, maybe I can't remember how many weeks or months it was. But, you know, we escaped that and had to move to America and start all over. I mean, my parents lost everything.

Starting point is 00:06:01 And, you know, you come to a foreign country, you know, Liberia to Utah, that's a pretty steep contrast. You know, so, and then even in the business, you know, I played soccer growing up in tennis. You know, I had to learn very quickly if I wanted to connect with other people. I had to connect through the game. That's what kids were playing at recess. And, you know, I taught myself how to play basketball. I didn't have anybody. You know, I really taught myself. My dad was trying to provide.

Starting point is 00:06:34 You know, I was fortunate enough to get a scholarship to go to Southern Utah, which when I went there, they had never been in the NCAA tournament. You know, they had never seen that. And in my time, they were able to do that. So nothing in my life has been easy. And, but it's all been a blessing. And I'm really thankful for it because it's given me a different perspective. What how has how have those events shaped you as a person and as a leader?

Starting point is 00:07:04 Well, I mean, as a person, it gives you, um, you know, I think it gives you empathy. It gives you understanding and it puts you at different levels, you know, and it's made me relatable. You know, I can relate to people who come from nothing. I can relate to people who come from everything. I've grown in I've lived in Africa a completely different environment and different

Starting point is 00:07:32 kind of culture. I've lived in Salt Lake City. The game is taking me everywhere. You know, so I think for me I've been able to, I can go into inner city, Detroit, and feel as comfortable as I am in a small town and in the, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:47 the back of Utah. You know, that's what this experience is given me. And I've seen rock bottom as a person. I've lived it. I've also seen Rock Bottom as a coach. And everything I feel like I've been a part of, including my life, has been a rebuild. And, you know, taking this job and coming here, I think those lessons have prepared me and shaped me for that.

Starting point is 00:08:15 So you took this job in the middle of the pandemic, correct? Yeah. You became the head coach there, middle of the pandemic. And I read that you started doing something called coffee with coach. on Zoom every Friday. And this was with former players, alumni, donors, deans, and marketing students at the university. What was the reasoning behind doing coffee with the coach?

Starting point is 00:08:37 Well, it was a way to connect. You know, one of the things that I had here when I got the job was, you know, with COVID, everybody was in a wait-in-see mode. And my motto was, let's win the wait. And while everybody is waiting, how can we find ways to win. And being new, I didn't want to go a whole year and not meet people. And coffee with the coach allowed me to meet boosters, meet donors, meet key constituents here at

Starting point is 00:09:06 the university, meet different alumni groups, you know, our former players, really trying to connect our program because there had been this disconnect for 30-something years and try to use that time while we were waiting to close the gap with those relationships and put myself in front of people and, you know, the things that we wanted to be about and how we wanted to build it. And, you know, that's, if we didn't have COVID, you know, coffee with the coach would have been more in person. But that's what it was, a chance to win the way bridge the gap and have people starting to believe in and what was possible through our program. As part of my conversation with Greg, he said, culture, culture, culture.

Starting point is 00:09:55 He said we usually have a culture meeting at least once a week with a team where we talk about what's going on in the world, everything about the team outside of the actual games. And he mentioned that you've seen a ton of growth from your players as men because of these meetings. Can you share about your emphasis of culture as well as maybe what one of those culture, meetings looks and sounds like. Yeah. Well, for me, you know, culture is really a set of behaviors. It's how we want to behave. And it's, you know, that behavior is not just as players and students, you know, in the moment, yes, I want those guys to be good players and good students. But for me, I hope the culture meeting is a life thing that when they become fathers and husbands, those are things that they'll carry with them.

Starting point is 00:10:43 And, you know, I think sometimes in the game, and I've seen it both ways, you know, we, we spent four years with kids and it's so basketball driven. And sometimes it can be very academically driven. And that's a good. That's very small and it's very finite in terms of somebody's life. And I hope when our guys leave here, they take more than just their academics and they take more than just their basketball. they take a piece that will carry them, you know, for the rest of their lives and lessons that they can lean back on when they do hit adversity or when they do have major success. And, you know, I try to structure those meetings just like we do a practice, you know, and I have a big binder

Starting point is 00:11:32 behind me in that I keep all our culture plans. And every minute of that hour is programmed. You know, We always start off with, you know, highlights, academic highlights, you know, where we talk about who's doing what that week and what class or what assignment they got back to really support and honor the guys that are doing well. And that creates some positive peer pressure because you want your name called. You know, we have a thing called habit share where we track our habits. So we'll go through that and talk about how we're doing with the things that we want to be better at from a habit standpoint. You know, I have my guys call Success Hotline. Every day I ask him to do that. And it's really a motivational thing where you call and there's a message and we'll we'll talk.

Starting point is 00:12:24 Hey, what did you get from Success Hotline this week? Is this an actual thing, the number you call? Yeah. Really? That number. And it's a pre-recorded thing and it's just a message for the date. And so we'll go through. A message that from you or from somebody else?

Starting point is 00:12:36 It's from someone else. Oh, okay. Right. So we do that, and then we'll, you know, we'll talk about, you know, the thought of the day. And that thought of the day could be, you know, what just happened with the Oakland Raiders, with their coach or their player, you know, it's something that's happening, you know, the player at Utah who got killed. And we talk about, you know, hey, after one or two in the morning, good things don't happen.

Starting point is 00:13:01 It's a chance to reflect on that. And then we'll have a segment of what's happening in the world. and we could touch, you know, what's happening in Afghanistan. You know, last year, obviously it was all the social unrest. There was a lot of those things. But, you know, sometimes in college, man, and even as adults, we don't spend time in the news. And I don't ever want our kids, when asked on campus

Starting point is 00:13:25 or by someone else, say, what did you think of this, to not have a little information where they can speak of something? That gives you power. And then the last part of it is really, you know, what our culture emphasis is for the day. And it could be, you know, hey, fear of failure and talking about that, and that becomes our whole culture piece. And that may be a 20-minute, 30-minute segment where we're focusing on a specific issue

Starting point is 00:13:57 that we may face on the court, we may face in life. And those things, you know, I try to plan out a week ahead. But that's really the gist of, you know, those meetings. And, you know, sometimes during the season, we may go in there and maybe we scrap the agenda and it's, hey, man, let's put it all out here. What's, what's bugging us? What's happening? Where are we? We may be on a five-game winning streak.

Starting point is 00:14:22 Hey, where are we? Because sometimes even in winning, there are things, underlying things that are happening. And what I've seen with this is usually when you lose a few, people want to have these culture meetings. Let's go bowling. Let's talk about it. right? And I think players are smart enough to know, well, we're only doing that because of this, where now it's set up, this is part of what we do. When lose or draw, this is what we do. It's part of our program. I love the fact that that last part, absolutely, doing a, in the military would call it an after-action review no matter what.

Starting point is 00:14:56 So if the mission went great, after-action review, if the mission was terrible, after-action review, or a post-mortem, as some business might call them. But the fact that you're intentional about this isn't important, but not necessarily urgent, right? These culture meetings are for the long game to develop men as men longer term. I'm curious, how did the guys respond when you implemented these culture meetings? Because sometimes I remember when I was probably 21, I was quarterback in college that I may have rolled my eyes. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:15:29 Like I'm wondering how I would have responded. Now, today I love this stuff, and I would have been, I'm all in. But I wonder, like, how is a 20-year-old respond? How did they respond? And maybe how has that evolved to today now that it's embedded as part of your program? Yeah, you know, I thought last year we did a tremendous job with it. You know, I thought last year our turnaround was because of our culture. I thought our kids really bought into that.

Starting point is 00:15:51 And I thought last year it was a little easier to buy into that because of COVID. We were really boxed in. You know, we were all we had. You know, you couldn't spend time with family. you couldn't go out, you couldn't do much, you had to be in your room. It gave us another outlet, and they were really into it. And it's become a part of who we are. But I think now when you have, you're able to see family and you're able to be with your

Starting point is 00:16:17 girlfriend and you're able to go socialize and, you know, culture is something that you have to work on every day. And the tricky part of, and I really believe this for us right now, you know, we're sitting here four and three. and obviously we're playing the hardest schedule programs played in the last 30 years. But if you would have told, you know, I would have told you we had a chance to be five and two and six and one at this point. One of the reasons, though, is because there's a sense of, you know, the culture is just going to keep going. No, you've got to intentionally, individually continue to work at it.

Starting point is 00:16:58 And we've got to get that back. And sometimes when something becomes a routine, if you're not careful, you just start to go through the motions. You're just present. You know, but, and that's, that's, that's, that's the next step here is, is making sure we're not being so comfortable in our routine. that we're really fighting and being intentional about what we're doing. I also believe every leader within a business should be doing meetings like this. Should be thinking about how are we intentionally working on our culture, namely our behaviors, what it means to live up to these values,

Starting point is 00:17:48 which is another note that I got was that you're very big on core values and core values are, as I've learned, are really about what you do, right? Your actions you choose. They're not just what you hang up on the wall. They're what you choose to do when you leave that room. Maybe when you're not with your teammates, like how are you living up to our values?

Starting point is 00:18:09 Can you share with me maybe your thought process on core values as well as what they are for you and why they are what they are? Yeah. I mean, you know, there's three things I really believe in. And I want our program to be about. And, you know, it's selfless. one. And for us, it's simple. It's L.M. Over you. Loyola Mermount over you. Um, you know, the second piece is connected. Before we can win championships here, we have to have great

Starting point is 00:18:36 relationships. And it's relationships before championships. The last piece is relentless. We attack everything. You know, the selfless piece, there was a point in my life where, you know, I really worked. I've always been a worker. I wasn't a great player, but I really worked at it. But sometimes in working, you can make it about yourself. And play for a guy who actually gave me my first job. I'll never forget we were playing. And I'd probably miss some guys on surpassing and didn't play well. We lost.

Starting point is 00:19:04 And in the locker room, he called me out and said, hey, man, you're the biggest selfish SOB I've ever coached. And it hit me, man. And I went back to the bus. And I wanted to pout. And eventually, I said, you know, he's right. And I changed that mindset. And when I did, my career actually took off.

Starting point is 00:19:24 My shooting took off. Everything got better. And I saw when you're truly selfless and you really care about the greater good, how much that comes back to you. And that's been a principle I've tried to live by. You know, the connection piece, you know, I think all good things come from good relationships. And when you have good relationships, you have a better chance to fight together in anything, not just in sport. And, you know, I want to be a place where, you know, this is where these guys come back years from now.

Starting point is 00:20:08 And I tell them all the time, you know, I want to win, man. I hate losing. You know, we lost the other night. And I still haven't gotten over it. But what I would hate is for these guys to leave here and say, you know what, all we did was basketball. And those guys didn't love me. And that's something you have to really work out with our, you know, you have to work at it. And I think if you have that kind of love and that kind of respect, the winning will come.

Starting point is 00:20:38 And then the last piece is you attack everything we do. And that's not just basketball. you know, I don't expect our guys to love every class, but I expect them. If they have a chance to get an A and a class getting A, the best thing can do is a C, get that C. But we attack it. And when it's time to practice, we attack it. When it's time to eat, we do that. When it's time to have fun, when it's time to get away.

Starting point is 00:21:01 But I want an attacking relentless basketball team and people because you're going to need that to be successful in this world, too. So we really try to hang our hats on those three principles. Have you found it harder, particularly with the selfless value, given, I mean, I guess every generation looks back and claims like we had it harder or it was different. But the one big change in generations now is social media, taking pictures of everything, likes all of that stuff, which is especially now with NIL, meaning they can make money on this stuff. has that been harder since maybe over the last five to ten years versus 10, 15, 20 years ago? Yeah. I mean, all those things you bring up are really good points and they do add to it. But I really believe it's easier to be selfish.

Starting point is 00:22:03 You know, that's a conscious decision. To be selfish? To be selfish. Yeah. Right. Being selfish is easy. It's natural. And regardless of social media and stuff, I think this is something we've always had to deal with.

Starting point is 00:22:18 We're always as humans looking to protect ourselves, right, and our dreams and our hopes and our, it's, it's eye, I, I, it's hard. And when you add the other things that you just talked about, right, the social media today and the likes, yeah, it makes it much harder. But I think that's something since the beginning of time, humans have been trying to deal with. And it's hard, man. It's hard to give up me to a group so we can all have more because do I trust that it's going to come back, right? That's really, really hard. But that's why I think the culture meetings and having these conversations and giving people

Starting point is 00:23:04 a chance to have a different point of view, understand why it's important. It's so critical. Because if you don't, you know, even as parents, all our parents on my team want our kids to do well. But guys, how can we collectively come together so we can all eat more? You know, that's, that's tricky. It's hard. How about holding each other accountable? I noticed, so I tried to analyze. So I've been on winning teams and I've been on losing teams as a football player. And in the business world, too. And one of the biggest differences between the teams is on the winning teams, the players and the leaders of the team were very good.

Starting point is 00:23:43 about holding their teammates accountable to excellent standard, to a standard of excellence, right, the tradition of the school or whatever it may be. The teams that were not as good, a captain of the team may look over and see a guy kind of go on half speed or not giving us all in the weight room or whatever and just be like, you know, it's easier not to speak up. It's easier not to confront the guy. It's easier to just kind of go about my business and not say, dude, we have a standard of an excellence of work ethic here.

Starting point is 00:24:14 You've got to do it. And that was the biggest difference is players holding each other accountable. And when they did, we usually won. And when we didn't, and I've been the leader of both of those teams. So I've messed that up myself. When I didn't do that, we usually lost. I'm curious, how do you see that now on your team as far as holding each other when it comes to the players accountable to standards?

Starting point is 00:24:37 Yeah, I think that's really hard for kids now. You know, and if you look around, and I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing. You know, you look around professional sports and all that. There's so many people, we all want to be buddies. But again, I'm going to go back to the relationship piece. And I use this analogy all the time, you know. My parents and my dad, my mom, I mean, as a 42-year-old, there's still not a decision that I make, especially a big decision.

Starting point is 00:25:12 that I don't talk to them. But there are also the two people who have held me the most accountable in my life growing up. And there are people who have said things to me that sometimes hurt, right? But they hurt because they love me. And I understand that and I value that. The people that I'm closest to right now, people who are my accountability partners, people that can tell me the truth because they love me and they care for me. And I think sometimes we get that misconstrued.

Starting point is 00:25:49 And especially today, truth helps is not something we see. We see it as truth hurts. Yeah. Right? And kids have a hard time holding each other accountable because we value or we're afraid of losing that friendship. And my point is, if we have a relationship, I should be able to say that to you. You should know that I love you and care about you. And I'm saying that because I care about your best interest.

Starting point is 00:26:21 And if I'm going to lose you because that's something I said to you that was best for you, we don't have a relationship. Yeah. And that's very hard. And that's one of the things with my team right now, we're trying to figure out. You know, really? This is the most important thing, guys, is the mission. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:42 And we're here for mission accomplishment. And we can't sacrifice the mission for our relationships and our feelings. It doesn't work that way. We build strong relationships so that we can earn permission to be honest with each other. Did you, by chance, see, I hate that I first. got his name because I want to give him credit. He's an offensive lineman for the Green Bay Packers. And I believe a reporter asked him, you know, how does it feel when you get ripped by Aaron Rogers on the field when Aaron kind of is getting on us guys every once in a while? And he said,

Starting point is 00:27:24 what I wish you guys could see is like I have this kind of emotional bank account with Aaron and my other teammates. You guys don't get to see all of the deposits that he makes in to me every day, the love and the care. And so you don't get to see all of that relationship being built. You just see on TV when he, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when, when things don't go, because it's a game, right? Things don't go well. And then and the guy might pop off or whatever and say something and yell at you.

Starting point is 00:27:53 And that's very normal for, for, for, for a team. But you guys don't get to see that. So yes, every once in while those moments happen, but there's so I know it comes from love and from all of those deposits that he's put. into me over years or many practices that I know where it comes from is he just wants the best out of me and expects me to perform at a level. It needs me to perform at that level for us to achieve our goals. And I thought that was a really great way of putting it where he, you could tell how thoughtful

Starting point is 00:28:26 he was of like understanding like, yeah, sometimes this hurts, man. Like the coach or the player gets on you, but it comes from that place. and when you frame it that way, it's, to me, it makes it so much better. Absolutely. I mean,

Starting point is 00:28:41 that's what it's about. I need to find that, by the way. I'll find the video. I'll send it to you guys. I hate that I can't, I don't have his name. I'll stop my head,

Starting point is 00:28:49 but what you're saying made me think of that because I do think this also stands. So like, I love sports, but I also try to take from sports and see how that plays into the non-sports world. Yeah. Because it almost always does.

Starting point is 00:29:04 It almost always does. does in a business setting with the team trying to build something great. It almost always does. And this absolutely does as well of having a standard of excellence and holding people accountable to it. Yeah. And it's hard. You know, a lot of people don't like accountability.

Starting point is 00:29:21 Yeah. And, you know, people want to be comfortable. And sometimes, you know, as we achieve, we want to stay. Well, I always say when you achieve, we move the needle. You know, we just keep moving the needle. And that's that's really hard. But without accountability, you have nothing. You know, the greatest form of love you can show someone is disciplined.

Starting point is 00:29:45 And if you love someone, you'll discipline enough because that means you care about them. But our world and our society, you know, we've kind of watered that down. And we don't, we don't see the value. Are you a dad, Stan? Yeah, I've got three kids. what about how does that translate to you as a dad when it comes to love and discipline? Well, I think it's the same, you know. And it's really hard, man.

Starting point is 00:30:12 I tell my guys all the time, and I tell every parent that I recruit, I'm not going to treat your kid any different than I treat Brooklyn, Miles, and Braylon. And I would hope that if my kids went to live with you, you would treat them like you treat. your own. That's what this is about, right? So there's nothing I say to my players where there's not a response that I give them that I would not give to my own kids. It's a simple rule. It's really simple. And if you can live by that, then I could sleep good at night. And that's important to me. I've heard that when you were at Marquette as an assistant coach, you were one of the greatest recruiters in the country.

Starting point is 00:31:07 And multiple people have said that. What is it in you that you think makes you a great recruiter? Well, that's very kind of them. I don't know if that was true. You know, you just do the best you can. I think it goes back to just. just being relatable. And I'm someone who I just say it how I feel.

Starting point is 00:31:32 And you never have to wonder where I'm coming from. And I try to be as sincere as possible. And in recruiting, it goes back to that word, it's relationships. And my whole deal was I'm going to, I'm going to develop the best sincere relationship with that family. And if you're going to beat me out, that kid, that parent, that dad, that mom, all three of them are going to have to call me and tell me no. And even if they feel like another school is a little better, just the fact that they don't want to call me and deliver that phone call, we're going to get them on that. Right. But it's going to be real.

Starting point is 00:32:16 And that was my whole deal, man. And we're going to develop a friendship and a relationship that will last forever. and I'm going to show you that with how we recruit you, the detail, the level. That's kind of how we did it. The other aspect of being a great head coach is you got to have a good staff. And we talked about one of your guys who's a buddy of mine, Greg. I'm curious, and I think this also applies to a CEO, a VP, anybody running a business. When you're making hiring decisions for your assistant coaches, so you're hiring leaders,

Starting point is 00:32:52 You're hiring people who need to be good leaders. What are some of the must have qualities in those people that you're going to hire to be leaders on your team? Well, number one, they all have to be really good people. I mean, there's no substitute for that. I didn't say perfect because I'm certainly not. I've fallen short many times. Do you think there are coaches who are like, I'm okay if they're not a good person? That's okay.

Starting point is 00:33:20 That's beside. Like, do you think there are some out there like? I don't know. You know, I've never talked to anybody who said that. You know, it's hard. But I mean, who knows? I mean, again, whether it's sport or business, sometimes anybody who can move the needle, maybe you'll hire for success.

Starting point is 00:33:33 I just, again, I have to be able to sleep at night. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess somebody say, like, well, he or she gets the results, so I'll deal with whatever. I guess there may be some. Yeah, no, I think there are. But for me, I think you can do both. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:49 For sure. For sure. Number two, you got to be smarter than. me. Right. And I'm not one of those guys that look at me. I'm the boss. And I think my years of working with different guys and all the places I've been, I've seen it done different ways. I want people who can stretch me. I want people who can hold me accountable. I want people who can make me better. I want people who can make our guys better. And there's no ego with that. You know, so I want really, really smart people that will make me look better than I am.

Starting point is 00:34:23 That's what it's about. You know, I don't, I have no, I don't want to be the smartest guy in the room. If I am, we're in trouble. So are you a really good person? Are you really smart? And do you, are you passionate about what you're doing? Because if you have those three things, then all the other things, then you'll get better at.

Starting point is 00:34:48 If there's something you don't know, you'll figure it out. But you have to have great passion. You have to be really smart and you have to be a good person. Because a good person doesn't clock watch. You know, if I hire a good person, I don't need to worry, man, is Greg doing this work? Is he recruiting? Because a good person has a soul. They know, man, I should be working.

Starting point is 00:35:10 If you hire a passionate person, I know they're going to be going over and beyond the call of duty. And if I hire a smart person, I know that they, they're going to, they know how to do the job or they're going to figure out way to do the job. So those three things are critical for me. If, this may be a stretch, but if you could, I love going inside the interview process, maybe because I interview people for a living, what are some of the questions or things you'd say to identify if somebody is a good person, is really passionate about what they do and are smarter than you?

Starting point is 00:35:40 Well, I mean, like, you know, what are, you know, what do you want to be remembered for? you know deep question yeah what do you want to be remembered for and i think that question gives you some insight to a lot of things you know if somebody tells you i just want to be remembered as a great coach or you know whatever a good recruit you know that that's a pretty shallow response you know um you know what are your expectations and and mine are really high how are you going to supersede what I expect, you know. You want somebody who's going to have no matter how high others expectations are for them, that there's of their themselves are going to be higher.

Starting point is 00:36:31 Yeah. Yep. Yep. You know, um, how do you evaluate yourself? You know, because again, as assistance, you know, again, I've been here. I've worked with some guys who it's like, well, it's the head coach's job. You know, we didn't win. That's on him.

Starting point is 00:36:50 I think the best assistance, they feel like it's their program. When things don't go wrong, instead of pointing the finger at the guy up top, they look inward and say, okay, how can I, how can I be better for him? How can I be better for the team? I can I be better for the staff? And then, you know, what's your relationships been like with, you know, the people you've worked with, your staff, your assistant coaches, or any of those guys that they, all become, any of them become some of your best friends. I think that's important. Because of my staff, I believe in share responsibilities. Like, we do everything together. We recruit together. It's no my recruit. We think together. You know, we game plan together.

Starting point is 00:37:38 And I think when you have a program like that, the kids see that. You know, I've been places where it's my recruit, it's my idea. I'm the defense. I've heard that in college. I remember this. There was two quarterbacks, me and another guy. And different coaches recruited us because, you know, they did it geographically like a lot of college football does. And those guys would say that in practice. That's my guy. Or no, that's my guy. And I thought like, wow, this is weird.

Starting point is 00:38:04 I feel like I just thought I was coming to the school for the offensive coordinator. Neither of these guys were the offensive coordinator. So it was kind of bizarre that there was like this infighting about guys, you know, and who's got what? You start fighting for the wrong things instead of fighting for winning. Right. And, you know, if we can work together and be cohesive and collaborative, now we're all fighting for everybody. Yeah. We don't have an agenda.

Starting point is 00:38:27 The only agenda is, you know what? Johnny's playing better than Tommy and Tommy should play. And there's no, man, I'm looking bad because my. No. So we try to, you know, those are the things I try to ask. And you're never 100% sure. Sure. And so your current staff that I think is interesting.

Starting point is 00:38:44 You have two assistants who were former head coaches. is you have somebody who's young and inexperience, which that's what Greg labeled himself, and then some support staff who are young and breaking into the business. I'm curious when you look at all of them, I know you're big on developing people, especially the ones closest to you.

Starting point is 00:39:04 They're at various stages of their own career. So they're not all just a bunch of young people. There some have been head coaches, right? Some are a little bit newer. How, like what's your thought process on helping them grow and preparing them for their next job in their careers. Yeah, you know, all our guys have specific job responsibilities. And one of the things that I really believe in is I don't give people minimal tasks.

Starting point is 00:39:36 You know, I give all of them have some huge things on their plate. They're important. That's how you grow, right? All of them have things on their plate that if they don't do well, the program will suffer. Like what would be some of those things? You know, for example, I mean, my ops guy, if you looked at his plate, right? I mean, he, he coordinates our entire existence, right?

Starting point is 00:39:59 And if he's not sharp, we're not going to make it. You know, Greg organizes recruiting. Recruiting is the lifeblood of our program. You know, one of our assistants is in charge of, you know, organizing and talking to me about the offense and one's in charge of defense, right? Like, those are big, and they have a lot, but those are huge things. Like, you can't function without that. They all have recruiting responsibilities.

Starting point is 00:40:31 And then all of them obviously have a responsibility to our players. You know, our GAs are in charge of, you know, some of them are in film and the food and how we set up and, like, everything that touches our guys that impact winning and losing. And if they don't do their job, there's some pressure on it. But for me, I also include all of them. You know, I've been in places where, you know, when we sit in a meeting, the GAs aren't allowed to talk. Shoot, I believe that GAs sometimes are closer to guys.

Starting point is 00:40:58 They have more information than we do. But I want them to sit in these meetings. I want them to see how we prepare. I want them to hear because that's where they're headed. And it's my job to prepare those guys. You know, Greg has a chance. And at some point, he's going to be a head coach. So it's my job to make sure I'm always pushing.

Starting point is 00:41:19 Hey, gee, don't just be comfortable doing this. I want you to think about this, see the big picture. You know, my operations guy, Ricky Munch, is going to be a head coach. How do I continue to grow him and get him ready to be an assistant next? I have two guys or assistant coach, been head coaches, but those guys, their days aren't done. How can we have success here where they can get another shot? You know, those. So you get, it feels to me like you would get,

Starting point is 00:41:45 amazing pleasure out of your your guys getting head coaching jobs. Absolutely. Again, leaving you, leaving you, even though they're valuable, but leaving you to be a head coach because that's kind of what you guys. Yeah. Our whole thing here is our mission is to take people to places they can't take themselves. And that's not only driven towards the players. I hope that will someday be driven with anybody who works with us.

Starting point is 00:42:14 that we will create a culture and an environment through winning and what we're doing that people want to hire our guys. You know, that, that's winning, man. That's winning at a different level. I want that for our guys. I want these guys to have things better than me. And I think that's leadership. Sometimes we want to be, we want to, we're good as long as no one gets better than us.

Starting point is 00:42:41 And the minute they start to do better than us, we don't like. Like, I don't want that. I want all these guys to do way better than me and have unlimited success. That would give me great fulfillment and joy. I just think even and take this to the business world, too, how cool would it be? If you're a senior leader somewhere and you kind of look, pick your head up for a second and look around. And people who have worked within your organization are big time leaders over there and over there and at different companies. I mean, how cool of a legacy is that?

Starting point is 00:43:13 When you talk about what do you want to be remembered for? I mean, man, that's the stuff. I mean, I read a lot about Bill Walsh, which he's out in the West Coast, say where he was when he was the 49ers. The score takes care of itself, one of my favorite books. And that was what he did is he prided himself on literally calling general managers of other teams saying, hey, so-and-so is ready. Hey, so-and-so is ready. Hire them, hire them. And he had this massive coaching tree because he made the phone calls himself.

Starting point is 00:43:41 And they built trust because sometimes they're. weren't ready. And he was honest at that point. But when they were ready, hey, they're ready, hire them. And they get all these head coaching jobs all over the place. And I think that's a, that's a, that's a, the mark of a really secure, excellent leader, somebody who was able to develop people to do that and then takes it a step further and actually helps them get those opportunities. Yeah, that's leadership, man. And, you know, sometimes we can be very selfish. You know, you get good people and you want to keep them because you want to be well. Right. Right. And it's not about that. creating opportunities and helping good people live their dreams.

Starting point is 00:44:18 I love it. I certainly hope we're able to do that here. I've read a number of your tweets. I like to surface a few of them and have you expand. Are you cool with that? Yeah, absolutely. I love them, by the way. Great follow.

Starting point is 00:44:32 Okay, being lazy is disrespectful to the people that believe in you. Being lazy is disrespectful to the people that believe in you. Yeah, and that goes for everybody. You know, that's not just player driven. And, you know, a lot of my tweets sometimes are constant reminders to me. Mm-hmm. You know, I have a lot of people counting on me. And I have to bring my best every day.

Starting point is 00:44:57 My team's counting on me, my staff's counting on me. And I don't have any right to take a day off, playoff, because there are people who believe in you and want you to do well. And that goes for our players. Our players have family members who have sacrificed a life a lot for them to be in this position. And to be lazy is disrespectful. One of the reasons I like it, Stan, though, is because you're focusing on people who believe on you, who believe in you, not on people who are haters. Because a lot of people like to beat the haters and be motivated by that. And I understand that. And I guess there is something to that. My thing, though,

Starting point is 00:45:46 is what if we flip that and we thought about the people who had our back? We thought of the people who love us. We think about the people who once they so badly want us to do well. I am amazingly motivated by those people in my life. And I feel so fortunate and grateful to have those people. I can't, the thought of being lazy or letting them down is just not acceptable. And but that's focusing so that when you when you do win or when things do go well, you got this, this group that you can hug and love and be with because they have supported you and one of the best for you. And if you're motivated by haters, when you win, what do you have around you?

Starting point is 00:46:27 They're not going to be there. They're nowhere to be found. And so why not, why not be focused on those people who support us and love us? And don't, we can't dare disrespect them by being lazy. That's why that's so simple yet so profound. I love it. Yeah. And you know, the thing about the haters, it's, you know, sometimes we spend so much time

Starting point is 00:46:47 trying to change people's minds who are, I mean, they're constantly looking for ways to discredit you anyways, right? You're not going to change their minds. And you're absolutely right. You got to make it about the people who believe in you. the don't mistake silence for weakness. Smart people don't plan big moves out loud. Say more.

Starting point is 00:47:17 I think, you know, sometimes, again, you talked about Twitter and Instagram. We all want to broadcast our success. And we all want to say what our next move is to look as if we're doing something. Go back to your point. Anytime you do that, you have people out there trying to sabotage you, right? Smart people, you know, whether it's the Army,

Starting point is 00:47:42 when the Army's going to make a move, nobody knows about it. They come at night and they attack you, right? And you wake up, whoa, whoa, right? And it's the same with anything, business, sport, you know, move in silence, let your work speak for itself, and you make big moves and decisions underneath the surface where nobody can see. And you've got to be protected.

Starting point is 00:48:05 of those things because there are people out there who are constantly looking to knock you back. Consistency is what transforms average people, companies and teams, into greatness. Anyone can do it now and then. Greatness is found in your ability to bring your best every single day. Keep going. Consistency to me, Stan, is not sexy, but extremely effective. I'd love to hear more your take on consistency. Yeah, I think people ask, you know, what is greatness? Right? There's always this thing.

Starting point is 00:48:39 What makes somebody great? What makes somebody great is her ability to bring it every single day. Yeah. Right? And in bringing it every single day, that does not mean you're going to win every single day. It doesn't mean you're going to be your best every day. But it does mean you're going to give your best. And if you can do that every single day and you multiply that way, all of a sudden,

Starting point is 00:49:02 you look up, man. and you're great. That's what it is. I think we're always looking for this quick fix to become great. That's not what it is. It's every single day pounding, pounding and pounding on your craft. You end a lot of them with keep going. What does keep going mean to you?

Starting point is 00:49:25 Keep going is don't stop. It's going to be hard. Things are going to come at you. You're going to have success. you're going to have failure, you're going to have hurts, you're going to have joy with all that. Guess what, though? You got to get up and you got to do it again.

Starting point is 00:49:42 Yeah. Right? It doesn't stop. That's the beauty of all this. How bad, however bad it is, good. Get up, let's go. However good it is, good. Get up, let's go.

Starting point is 00:49:52 You know, even in the good, sometimes, to be honest with you, our greatest threat to our success is not when things go bad. It's when things go really good. but things go really good you got to keep going you got to keep striving the needle moves anytime you're going to grow you're going to lose something you're losing what you're hanging on to to keep safe you're losing habits that you're comfortable with you're losing familiarity keep going growth talk to me about growth yeah growth is hard growth is painful you know i don't know about you but when i was growing i started to develop tendonitis in my knees

Starting point is 00:50:26 ostrichlottor i mean i've had these big old bumps that was painful right But I'm thankful for that pain because I got taller. You know, when you're shedding something, it is painful. It is hard. We oftentimes want to hold on to comfort what makes us what we're familiar with. You cannot grow that way. And in growth, you're going to fail. Failure and success is not, those aren't opposites.

Starting point is 00:51:01 Those two things go hand in hand. but a lot of times we don't want to experience that because we don't want to experience pain. And that is what growth is. You have to shed things. You have to get rid of things. You have to, that's what it is. And, you know, our team's going through that right now as much as I hate it. Like, you know, again, I think we should be six in one.

Starting point is 00:51:23 We're not. We're four and three. There's some growing pains that we're going through. And for this group, we have to go through it to become the team. that we ultimately can become, even though it stings. That's part of it. One more. Your competition isn't other people.

Starting point is 00:51:42 Your competition is your procrastination, your attitude, your ego, you're blaming, your complaining, your ability to stay in the past, your bad habits, your jealousy, your comparison mindset, your inability to dream bigger, compete against that. Yeah. I mean, we constantly make competition somebody else. or something else. While we make all these excuses as to why we can't,

Starting point is 00:52:09 and we find all these reasons or we get caught up in the minutia of our daily lives, if we can focus on us and become a better version of ourselves and have positive self-talk with our minds instead of letting our mind talk to us, I think we'll find out we'll be a heck of a lot more successful. Love it. Stan, what you as a leader, What do you want to be remembered for? Well, I think what I said not too long ago, I hope people will say, hey, here's a guy who he really got on my last nerves. Because oftentimes nothing was good enough.

Starting point is 00:52:47 He pushed me to a place. I could not take myself. But in the end, his heart was pure and he cared and loved me enough to do so. You know, I hope that's what people remember me by. You know, a guy who generally cared who wanted the best for every. everybody, but who pushed them and myself to achieve those things. I love it. Um, uh, one more to, maybe a, a non basketball player, uh, a student who, I know you regularly speak with them to who just graduated and they're like the second or third year into

Starting point is 00:53:25 the real world and they're not really quite sure what they're going to, they're going to do with their, their, their heart is pure. They want to do well. They want to leave their mark. and help people, what are some general pieces of life slash career advice you'd give to that person? I would say, number one, don't ever get boxed in. You know, don't let people box you it. You know, I tell people all the time, you know, a vase, when you put a flower in a vase, you don't put the vase over the flower. If you put the vase over the flower, the flower conforms to the shape of the base.

Starting point is 00:54:00 Who knows who you can be? Who knows what you can grow? grow to be. And don't, I see so many people early in life say, well, this is all I can do. I can't do that. You don't know what you can do unless you put yourself out there. Keep putting yourself out there. Keep trying. Keep hearing no. I can't tell you how many noes it took for me to hear a yes for this job. And what I've learned was sometimes when we think we're getting rejected, we're actually getting redirected to where we're supposed to be. So you have to be willing to put your butt on the line.

Starting point is 00:54:43 You have to be willing to hear no. And you look at some of the most successful people, Oprah Winfield. I mean, you go down the line. People who were told they could never make it. Some of the best presidents failed many times. They kept going. They kept putting their butts on the line. and eventually they became who they became.

Starting point is 00:55:03 So this is the fun part is figuring it out. But don't limit yourselves while you're trying to do so. Coach, man, thank you so much for being here. I know you're right in the middle of it. So I really appreciate it. I'm excited at some point to get out there and see you guys play in person. But I'm really grateful for your time and how thoughtful you are. You've already impacted my life.

Starting point is 00:55:25 I'm grateful that Greg introduced me to you because I, as I was preparing, I thought, this dude, wow. I'd want to play for him because I know I'd be better for. I know it wouldn't be easy. It wouldn't be easy, but I know I'd be better for it. So I'm grateful that I got a chance to talk you day, Coach. Thank you so much. Thank you, man.

Starting point is 00:55:41 I appreciate it and look forward to getting you here and watching this play. I love it. And certainly we love to continue our dialogue as we both progress because I think we're both on similar paths of trying to learn and grow and get better, man. Absolutely. We'd love to. All right. Thanks so much, man. All right, brother. Appreciate it, man.

Starting point is 00:56:01 Wow. I could sit back and listen to Stan talk all day. I'm so grateful that my friend Greg sent me a cold email years ago about this podcast, The Learning Leader Show, and was so kind and then came to my workshop. And then when he got the job at Loyal and Merrimont, he said, you have got to meet this guy, Stan Johnson. He is right up your alley when it comes to what it means to be a learning leader. So I'm just, it's so cool the way the world works.

Starting point is 00:56:30 you put something out there, you don't know who's going to listen or read it, and then they do, it impacts them in a positive way, and it creates these amazing transformational relationships, and that's what life's all about, man. So I'm just so grateful for Greg and certainly for Stan. I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. A few takeaways from my notes, what do you want to be remembered for? I love that question. And I would ask you, do your daily behaviors align with what you?

Starting point is 00:57:00 want to be remembered for. Big question for each of us to ask ourselves. And then rejected to redirected. Keep putting your butt on the line, as Stan said near the end of our conversation. Don't get boxed in. Who knows what you could, what you could be. Put yourself out there. And I think this is a big reason that he is in the position he's in because he's not afraid to do this. And I really admire that about him. And then being lazy is disrespectful to the people that believe in you. Focus on proving your supporters right. The people who love you and root for you. Those people inspire me.

Starting point is 00:57:39 Those people, I am so juiced up to prove my supporters right. And then when things go well, they're right there to give you a hug, tell you they love you, and they support you. Isn't that so much more gratifying than trying to prove someone wrong? I would argue always focus on proving your supporters' right and you cannot be lazy because that is disrespectful to those people who believe in you and support you. I want to say once again, thank you for being a supporter of me and my mission here with the Learning Leader Show. Because of you, I have the opportunity to do what I love on a daily

Starting point is 00:58:19 basis. And because you tell friends, you should listen to this episode with Stan Johnson on the Learning Leader Show, it will help you become a more effective leader. And because you write reviews on Apple Podcasts and rate the show, hopefully five stars. You are giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to the soon. Can't wait.

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 450: Stan Johnson - Living Your Core Values, Building Culture, & Developing Leaders

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