The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk - 457: Ken Blanchard - Creating Magical Moments, Building Trust, & Simple Truths Of Leadership

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

Read my new book, The Pursuit Of Excellence https://bit.ly/excellencehawk Full show notes at www.LearningLeader.com Text Hawk to 66866 for "Mindful Monday" Twitter/IG: @RyanHawk12  https://twitter.com/RyanHawk12 Dr. Ken Blanchard is one of the most influential leadership experts in the world and is respected for his years of groundbreaking work in the fields of leadership and management. He's written 60+ published books... Most notably, The One Minute Manager has sold over 15 million copies.  Notes: T he One Minute Manager: 1 Minute goals – All struggles go back to one simple thing: communication. Set 3 goals for each employee. Write each of them down in 350 words or less. 1 Minute praisings ("catch people doing the right things") – Do this immediately following good work. Don't wait (you might forget). Be specific in your praise. 1 Minute reprimands (later changed to 1 Minute re-directs) - Address this immediately after it happens. Be very specific. "Teach people the power of love instead of the love of power." "Life is what happens to you when you're planning on doing something else." What made The One Minute Manager catch on? It was a parable. Those were rare at that time. It was a short book. A quick read. He started his company in 1979. Charles Schwab told him to name the company after himself... Thus, "The Ken Blanchard Companies" was started. It helped that YPO adopted them quickly. "All good performance starts with clear goals." Create magical moments – For his wife, Margie's 80th birthday party, They rented a big house in Hawaii for a week surrounded by the people they love. How can you create magical moments? Ken has written 65 books... Only 2 of them by himself. He likes to write with others. Profit is the applause you get for creating a great environment for your people. Expectations: You get what you expect. Humility - Be there to serve others. Humility does not mean you think less of yourself. It means you think of yourself less. Connect the dots between individual roles and the goals of the organization. When people see that connection, they get a lot of energy out of work. They feel the importance, dignity, and meaning in their job. Leadership is not something you do to people. It's something you do with people. Vision is knowing who you are, where you're going, and what will guide your journey. "Many people measure their success by wealth, recognition, power, and status. There's nothing wrong with those, but if that's all you're focused on, you're missing the boat...if you focus on significance -using your time and talent to serve others -that's when truly meaningful success can come your way.: If becoming a high-performing organization is the destination, leadership is the engine. Sustained excellence: They realize it's not all about them They have a sense of humor They listen more than they speak Feedback is the breakfast of champions Get to D4 -- The highest level of development: Competent and Committed. Life/Career Advice: Be a lifetime learner Look for good leaders... Ask them to lunch  

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Welcome to The Learning Leader Show, presented by Insight Global. I am your host, Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Text, Hawk to 6-6-866 to become part of Mindful Monday. You along with tens of thousands of other learning leaders from all over the world will receive a carefully curated email for me each Monday morning to help you start your week off right. You'll also receive the opportunity to read an excerpt of my new book, The Pursuit of Excellence, for free if you text, Hawk to 666. Now, on to tonight's featured leader, the legendary Ken Blancher, author of the one-minute manager, a classic book that has sold more than 15 million copies since it was published in 1982.

Ken has since written more than 60 books focused on becoming a more effective leader. And in 2005, he was inducted into Amazon's Hall of Fame as one of the top, 25 bestselling authors of all time. Through the topics we discuss, how to create autonomy through boundaries. And then why the key to developing people is to catch them doing something right. And then how to set clear goals for the people you're leading. And then at the end, he even gave some marriage advice as he just celebrated his 60th wedding anniversary. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a special one. It's the great Ken Blanchard. Ken, it's an honor to have you here, man. Welcome to the Learning Leaders Show.

Oh, good. It's great to be with you. That's for sure, Ryan. I love the fact that we have an uncommon common commonality. We both have spent time in our lives at Ohio University. Me as a student, you as a teacher. Can you talk to me a little bit about that six-year period when you were a teacher, a professor at Ohio University? University. Yeah, I came there originally because Vern Alden had taken over his president there, and he was going to make this to Harvard of the Midwest. And he brought in all kinds of exciting people. And so I had just finished my doctor's degree at Cornell and got the chance to come initially as assistant to the dean of the business school, because you'll get a kick out of this. my faculty and graduate school said if I wanted to be to university, I should be an administrator because I couldn't write. I found out later that it was too simple for them. They liked it more

complex. I never forget, they asked for an analogy one time in a paper, and I said it, it went over like a pregnant high jumper, and the guy really was offended by that analogy. And so, but when I got there, Harry Everts, the dean said, Ken, I'd like you to teach a course. And I never thought about teaching. Because about, if you don't publish, you don't perish. He said, I don't care anything about that. And so Paul Hersey had just arrived as the chairman of the manager department.

He put me in that department, teach a basic management course. And that was fine for me because I had done my doctoral dissertation on Fred Feedler, who was the first situational leadership theorist. After a couple of weeks, I came home when I told my wife, why did you, I said, God, this teaching's fun. This is what I should be doing. She said, what about the writing? I said, I know, we'll figure something out.

So I heard Herssey taught a great leadership course, and I asked him if I could sit in the next semester, and he said, nobody orders my course. You want to take it for credit, you're welcome, and he walked away. And I thought that was interesting because I had a doctor's degree, and he didn't, and he wanted me to take his course for credit. So I told Margie, and she says, is he any good? And I said, he's supposed to be fabulous.

She said, well, get your ego out of the way and take his damn course, you know. So I had to talk to the registrar, to letting me in because I already had a PhD. And so I took Hershey's course and wrote the papers and everything. And June 67, he comes in my office and says, Ken, he said, I've been teaching for 10 years and they want me to write a textbook. And writing has never been my great suit. And I've been looking for a good writer like you.

would you co-author with me? I said, we ought to be a great team. You don't like to write and I'm not supposed to be good at it. Let's do it. And so we wrote this textbook management of organizational behavior, utilizing human resources. So it was actually it was 66 when I came to Ohio you and left in 70. Wow.

What a story. it's amazing that someone like you is told your writing is too simplistic. Is that what they said? Well, this and that wasn't any good, you know, I guess it wasn't intellectual enough. What did you think about that at the time? Well, I thought, well, they ought to know and all that kind of thing. You know, so I've always believed that life is what happens to you when you're planning on doing something else. you know.

So I said, well, I'll try something else then, you know. And but it was a, it was an interesting process, you know, to, to, to have people tell you that and then find out that that's really what, what you're, what you're good at. Because I love to tell stories, you know, and all that. And it was, it was interesting that, I wrote the one-minute manager with, Spencer Johnson and we had come to San Diego and he was a children's book writer. You know, he and his wife wrote all these books on value tales, the value of courage, the story of Jackie Robinson, the value of determination, the story of Helen Keller.

And so my wife met him first and she hadn't carried him over and she said, why don't you two write a children's book for managers? They won't read anything else. And so he was working on a one minute scolding with a psychiatrist. And so I invited him to a seminar I was doing it. At the end of the thing, he was writing the scolding for parenting and came running up. And after the seminar, he said, forget parenting. Let's do the one-minute manager. And that was in like the in November.

And we had a first draft of the book by the time we were going to the Rose Bowl. the end of December. And I said, well, let's go to New York and show it to them. He said, no, they'll beat us up over the head and take all the money. He said, we need to self-publish it. And so we self-published the one-minute manager and sold 20,000 copies with no advertising. This is true a group called the Young President's Organization that I had done a bunch of work with they were all presidents who became president before they're 40 years old.

and there you have chapters all over the country and around the world. And it was unbelievable. We sold all that when we went to New York and we had sold all those books. So all of a sudden they're interested in us, you know. 23 million copies later, correct? Yeah, it's unbelievable. That's my total book sales. It's about probably 15 to 18 of the one-minute manager.

I mean, could you ever have imagined that? when you were writing it, when you finished it, even after you sold the first 20K on your own without a publisher, could you ever have imagined that? No, no, it's really, it came out in 82 and we rewrote it a few years ago because we think that the young people think about leadership as being side by side, not top down. So we changed the one-minute reprimand, the third secret, to one-minute redirects, which is much more of a collaborative kind of thing. So, but it still sells like crazy.

I noticed you changed that. Did you want to change that? Or you said, I noticed that the young people say that you have to do that. Did you feel like you had to change with the times? Yeah, we thought we updated it with the times because when we went back and looked at it, it was a little top down. Yeah. So the one minute manager was the one that set the goals and decided who to praise and

who to reprimand. And nowadays, the young people, they don't want your job, but they want to be collaborative and feel like they're a part of the whole thing. Why do you think that book caught on? I think, well, you know, we wrote a parable. And before that, there was Jonathan's Livingston Seagull and the Lille's Prince, but there had never been a parable in business, you know. And right before that, all the best-selling books for Japanese, you know, about Japanese management. I think we were sick and tired of that.

In fact, that year- Like Kaizen stuff? Kaison were the- Yeah, yeah, okay. But that year, Tom Peters and Mortimer came out with In Search of Excellence. And John Nesri came out with Megatrans. And the three of us dominated the best sell of us. And the fun thing about that is we were all at Cornell together.

Tom Peters and I were fraternity brothers and Nesbitt was a graduate student in my department and so we said to Harvard, ah, Harvard, it's Cornell. I think part of it, I was trying to deconstruct and analyze this. You know, your book has been recommended to me by many of my managers as I was becoming a newer manager and my leadership went from the football field into the business world. And I think part of it too is there isn't any fluff.

one of the things that happens, especially with the publisher, I know this from from writing a little bit is you have this word count that you have to hit. Whereas it feels like you guys said, what's the fewest number of words we could write? And then let's just publish the thing. And in a way, people appreciate that where it's just packed full from literally first word to the last word, as well as in having some really memorable takeaways that you could implement immediately. And then I thought, well, that's kind of my deconstruction of why it caught on. And then obviously the uniqueness of being a parable, which is more people do that now than did it when you guys did. That's what I sense is part of why it not only caught on, but continues to sell a ton. Yeah.

And I think that, you know, we decided that we would write a book. If you couldn't read it from a flight from San Diego to San Francisco, it was too long. You know, and the reason Peters and Waterman and Nesbitt sold is the first chapter, the introductory chapter, they told all the content that they were going to do in the book. So the rest of the book was almost like a reference. So if you like this secret, you'd go there. The problem is a lot of people write, and then they have the big bang up at the end of the book, but it's 250 or 300 pages later.

You know, give it to them now. and then use it as a reference book. That's the best way, I think. Interesting. So that books in, but you started your business that Ken Blanchard companies in 1979, correct? Yes. I love the, can I love the beginnings of things? Maybe because I'm kind of in that place or I have been for the last few years, the day one-ish type things of just, as Jeff Bezos might say, can you take us back to that moment in 1979, you and your wife are starting your company, and what was going on at the time?

What gave you the belief that this could actually become something before the book came out? So it's before you became wildly famous and known in the leadership space. So what was it at that time that led you believe that you could do this? Well, we came there, as I said to Paul Hersey and I to write the third edition of our book and all. And he had created the Center for Leadership Studies. And we were a part of that. And then it became clear that we had a different leadership philosophy in terms of running an organization.

So Marge and I said, why don't we start our own organization? Because she had just finished her Ph.D. in communication. And we had run into this group called the Young President's Organization, YPO. And they kind of adopted us. And this gave us all kinds of work. And so we decided we'd have our own organization. And I was smart enough that Margie would be president, you know, because she's much better at doing things like that. And I became initially the chairman of the board, but I hated that.

So I changed my title to the chief spiritual officer, you know. I'm in charge of spirit. I write a morning message to everybody every day. And I do three things. I praise people for the good work they're doing. I tell them about the good things that we're doing in the company. And then I tell them something that I've learned recently. Like I met a guy in the airport a while back from New Zealand,

and I sent him some books, and he sent me an email and said, Ken, you know the business you're in is teaching people the power of love rather than love of power. And so I did a morning message on that. And we started the company, and we had several people that were either doctoral students or colleagues of mine at the University of Massachusetts, and they helped us out, and they became founding associates. So there was eight of us that really kind of got the thing going. And then when the woman and manager came out, the thing went crazy. We went almost went out of business because we couldn't deal with all the demands. That is, so it's interesting

to me because you name the company after yourself. How did you, and this is something that I a challenge that I have not figured out yet. So when they call or they email or they write at that time and say, hey, can we'd love for you to come teach our group or come develop a leadership development program within our company or our business, there's only one of you to go around. But the company is named after you. When the book comes out, your name is on the cover of the book. So they usually want you. How are you able to scale it beyond you when that's probably initially whatever. everybody wanted. Well, it's interesting in terms of that, you know, because it's true,

you know, initially people wanted, but the people that helped start it with me were fabulous teachers and trainers. And so initially I started saying, I'll come, but I'm bringing one of my colleagues, you know, and they'll work with me on this thing. And then people start to see the skills that they had and what they could do. And so we started to broaden the thing from beyond just me. And so it's interesting. The reason we named the company is, you know,

I met Charles Schwab, you know, and he had named the company. And he said, you know, he didn't want to do it either, but people said, you know, that they, people love to. recognize somebody, you know, and why not name it so that they know that this is something that's around your work and all that kind of thing, rather than coming up with some other crazy name. And so it really kind of was an interesting thing. How were you guys making money

in those early days? What work were you doing that earned money for the company? Well, we were doing leadership training programs, you know, I had developed that, we call it SL2, which is our situational approach to effective leadership and developed that. And then, of course, when the one-minute manager came out, we were doing tons of things on that. I got invited by a big seminar company to go all over the country and do one-minute manager seminars, you know, and having only three secrets was really powerful, you know, that people could really do that. And then we started developing learning materials and videos and all. So we ended up having our company where we, we did in-person training. We had learning materials. We started to do stuff online, you know,

and all, and spread out. Now we got, you know, about 250 people. working with us and we have, you know, an office in the UK and in Asia and all that. It's really just amazing. We're, you know, over 40 years old and only 5% of the companies that never start ever last that long. And it's really is amazing, I think. And it has been that because I think we're. out there trying to help people. I want to get to simple truths of leadership,

but just the three key parts that we kind of touched on, but I'll get specific here is from the one-minute manager that I think hit on that made it memorable and implementable, meaning people could put into action immediately, one-minute goals, one-minute praisings, and one-minute reprimands got changed to one-minute redirects. Could you give me the high level of just those three things of the importance of one minute goals, one minute praisings, and one minute redirects?

Well, it's really clear that all good performance starts with clear goals. If people don't know what they're being asked to do, how are they going to do it? And I go in a lot of organizations, and I said, do you have goals, you know, for your organization in the first place? And they say, well, they've got to be somewhere. Is there maybe on a wall or something? And most people, they might set goals at beginning of the year. And then they file them and nobody does anything with them.

And so we really felt it's so important to start that. And once the goals are clear, then it's so important that you don't disappear. The number one leadership style, Ryan, I found over the years, as I call Seagull Management, you know, people give you something to do, set a goal, and then they disappear until you screw up or there's a mistake. And then they fly in, make a lot of noise, dump on everybody, and then fly out. And we thought that you need to stay in contact and start wandering around and see if you can catch people doing things right and accent the positive and praise them and cheer them on. And then if they're not moving the right direction in a particular goal, initially the one minute reprimand was to say, you know, we need to get you back on track. The redirect is a lot more collaborative saying, you know, I've noticed in this area you're not doing as well as we had hoped.

do you agree? And they always agree, what can I do to help you get back on track and get redirection? So those three things really go together in a powerful way. The catching people doing something right, I feel like that's been repeated to me a million times from that stems from your work and the one minute manager is that as I was getting promoted and rising the ranks within the company I worked at, they constantly said that, whether it was working with, I worked in a sales organization. So whether I was working on the telephonic group or in the field, it was like, we're always needing to find, to catch people doing, doing things right and praising.

And I feel like that really caught on in addition to the goals aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that, I think that people know me for that one probably more than anything else, as you say. It sounds so basic and simple, yet I guess it just wasn't happening. Yeah. It still doesn't happen. I guess. No, I still, yeah, I still think that people, people ask me who really uses this stuff we

teach. Well, I said only the number one company in each of their areas because we've worked with them, you know, Southwest Airlines and airline business and horse streams and in retail, you know, Wegmans in the grocery business, you know, Sonovas and financial services, you know, and chick fillet and the fast food industry. And they all teach that and catch people doing things right. And my wife and I just went to Chick-fil-A the other day. And it's just fun, the guys out in the street and all. And they say, thank you so much for being here.

We really appreciate your business. You know what I mean? And they have hardly any turnover. People love to work there because they also get caught doing things right. I mean, it's a parenting thing, too. I was just at home at lunch with my wife, and that's what we were talking about with our children is we are seven-year-old really kind of on her own, you know, cleaned up after herself and was really kind about it.

And we're like, let's reward, let's remind her, like, not just when things are bad, but, hey, we have a great moment. Let's make sure she feels the love because we caught her doing it the right way. And that's exactly from the one-pin manager. I mean, it's a parenting book, too. Yeah. And if people get caught doing things right, then they're going to want to do more things that they might get caught doing right.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, as of today, what is your favorite thing to do when it comes to your businesses? Like, what's your favorite? Was it the teaching? Is it writing? Is it a podcast?

Like, what is your favorite thing to do? Well, I love the writing, but I also love the teaching. I've really loved the Zoom outbreak of COVID because I'm a good zoomer, you know, and now I'm not going to have to travel anymore. If people wanted me to do a keynote, then I'll zoom in because a lot of times I'll go and do keynotes to companies and they put you on the screen and everybody's watching the screen anyway, you know, and so I just love this whole zooming around. I mean, I did a Zoom the other day, and I had people from South Africa, from Europe, from South America, from India, you know, all on the same Zoom.

You know, I mean, I went, duh. That's just great stuff. You could walk out your office door and hit the beach and go surfing. I mean, you're in a good spot, right? But the writing is. And, you know, I've written, you know, over 65 books. And my mother always said, why don't you write a book by yourself, you know, because of all those books. I've only written two by myself, one on golf.

So many people help my golf game. I didn't know who to write it with. And then my spiritual journey, I couldn't go author that. But this new book called The Simple Secrets of Leadership, I wrote with Randy Conley, who works with us, who's become a real expert in the field of trust. And I'm a big fan of servant leadership. And I think when you have a philosophy that you're there to serve

rather than be served, that you work for your people, not for them. You build trust in them. They go together. And so with the subtitle, there's 52 ways to build trust, I mean, to be a servant leader and build trust. And there's 26 on servant leader, 26 on trust. And it really summarizes what we've been doing for over 40 years. And it's so it's really been a fun project.

I think it's going to make a difference out there. And all the initial feedback from people is that they're really excited about it. It officially comes out in February. What's that, yeah, what's that co-writing process like? I mean, I find writing and books to be such a personal endeavor. And you've proven that it's better together almost to do it with other people. How do you do that? Well, we start off by sitting down and saying,

what content would we like to teach people? And we always want to break the content down so there's not too much of it, you know? And then since the woman of manager was a parable, most of my books are parables. So then the next thing we say, if we're going to teach this content, how are we going to teach it as a parable?

And come up with a story. And I have a couple of great editors that work with me in our company, Martha Lawrence and Renee Broadwell and they're fabulous and and so we all kind of work as a team and you know some co-author want you take that that concept and come up with him how we can put it into the story and I'll do this one you know and and we make it fun you know it's a it's it's fun I think too many people sitting there and her do you know and all that kind of thing you know you're going to put yourself to sleep, you know.

And so make it fun. Now, this book is not a parable, but it really, it's fabulous for people because on one side of the page, it might have a secret like the key to developing people, as we said, is to catch him doing something right. And then the second page first talks about why people aren't doing it. And then at the bottom of every page is how to make common sense, common practice. And that's the flow. So the people could read, you know, one secret a week for the whole year or they could take, we could divide it into four or five sections and all. But it's a

great one to read with their team because they can talk about how we're going to use this concept, you know. Are you cool with it if I pull a few, pull on a few threads from the book as I was taking notes? Sure. So I'm going to start with create a motivating environment. It starts on page 34 in the book. Profit is the applause you get for creating a motivating environment for your people so they will take good care of your customers. So basically like, as Bill Walsh might say, the score takes care of itself, right?

Profit will take care of itself if you create the environment for your people. That's what I sense. Yes. And, you know, what I found, Ryan, is a lot of people thought the reason for being, you know, being in business is to make money. We say, no, it's the applause you get for creating a motivating environment for your people. So they'll take good care of your customers. And what's really interesting is all the great companies I just mentioned,

the Nordstroms and the Southwest and the Wregmans and all of them, they look at their number one customers, their people. If you take care of your people, train your people, love on your people, they go out of the way to take care of your second most important customer, the people who buy your services and products. And then they become raving fans of your organization, become part of your sales force. And that takes care of the profit and the bottom line. And so initially I wanted this book to be titled, Duh.

Why is in common sense, common practice? But our publisher, Barakola, says, duh, doesn't translate in a lot of foreign languages and all that. But that's really what the book is about is, duh. Why aren't you doing this? Next, I want to hit on expectations, Ken. And you write, you get from people which you expect. Can you talk to me about expectation setting, maybe both for yourself as well as for other people?

Well, I think it's really important when you sit down with people and you're setting goals and you're working with them. You're kind of saying, here's what my hopes and dreams are for you. How do you feel about that? You know, do you think that you're up for that, you know, and people say, wow, that sounds really exciting. Well, I want you to know, I'm here to help you, you know, accomplish your expectations, accomplish your goals. But so often people, you know, aren't clear on what they're being held accountable for and what people expect of them and all. And the clearer you make it in the beginning, the better. I love it. My dad always told me, as the leader, it is your job to be vividly clear in your messaging of what's expected of your people.

And if you have this big visionary goal that the company is trying to do, your job also is to show them how they and their contribution impacts that large goal. And so they know exactly what they're being measured against because the worst thing ever is to be like, am I doing a good job? I think God. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's right. I know. It's got to be something where people are really clear, you know, and they look forward to seeing you, you know, even if they're not working as well as they are. They know you're not there to beat them up. You're there to help them, you know. And it's so interesting. Like when I talk about servant leadership to a lot of people, they think it's about the inmates running the prison or trying to, you know, please everybody. But they don't realize the two parts of servant leadership. The first, is vision, direction, values, and goals. And that's the responsibility of the hierarchy.

And so if your people aren't clear what they're being asked to do, shame on you. But you need to involve them and doing that, but it's your responsibility. So it begins with the hierarchy. And once the goals and direction and values and all are clear, now you get to the servant part and now you philosophically turn the pyramid upside down. And now you're working for them. And it's that one-two punch of the leadership and the servant part that makes it really exciting. And see, the one-minute manager is servant leadership in action because what's the first secret?

One-minute goal setting. And then once that was clear, now we turn the pyramid upside down. You wander around and catch people doing things right and redirect their efforts. In the same way with SL2, our situational approach, first thing is goal-setting. And then you look at each of the goals and decide what their development level is and decide to either directing, coaching, supporting, or a delegating leadership style. You know, so it's, it's a, the whole key, Ryan, is one plus one is a lot greater than two. And the great leaders think it's about we, not me.

I want to talk about motivation, Kent. And you write, never assume you know what motivates. a person. And you share more about understanding the motivations of the people you're leading. Well, again, you know, it's a dialogue, you know, you want to say to your people, you know, you know your responsibilities now, but what's going to really keep you going and motivate you? You know, I mean, I'm going to be here for you, you know, is it money? Is it recognition? Is it more responsibility? What, what, what really is it? that motivates you.

And again, it's that two-way dialogue and you're trying to find out from them rather than assuming that you know what motivates people. And a lot of people assume, well, they're really interested in money. Well, you know, money is very often a byproduct of other motivations and all.

And it's just good to check with people and find out, you know, it's that we versus me. Can I, I don't know, if Jim Collins is one of your friends, but you guys are in similar regard in my mind. I have a great lot of respect. Jim, yeah. He writes about the trust wager, and he learned from his mentor, Bill Lazier, about

leading with trust. And I'm curious, you write about this as well. From a leadership perspective, who should make the first move to extend trust? Well, we say in the book, the trust isn't done to people, is done with people. and so that, you know, you need to begin by trusting your people. And that's the delegation and all. And when they trust that when you delegate to them, you're also there to help them, then they start to trust you.

But it begins with the leader. Trust starts with the leader. Absolutely. I look at like the characteristics. of servant leaders and one of them is humility and these are back to back sections of the book where people with humility don't think less of themselves. They think, they just think of themselves less. But you also write, it's okay to toot your own horn. What about that dichotomy when it comes to humility, not thinking less of yourself, just thinking of yourself left as well as it's okay

to shoot your own horn? Well, it's interesting is that the humility thing is that you want to be there to serve other people. It's not about you and all. But don't feel, don't be afraid to sort of be part of the team when the praise comes around and your team is doing well and to say, you know, we really did well. And I am proud of you and I'm proud of what any part that I've played for. So don't be afraid to toot your own horn as long as it's not, you know, I'm, I'm the best. And you guys. are subordinate. You know, I mean, what a terrible term, subordinate, you know, rather than, you know, we're colleagues, we're coworkers and all that.

How do you create, in Dan Pink's book, he writes about a lot about motivation and one of the things that he says is autonomy. How do you create autonomy through boundaries? Well, I think that what's happened is that, You know, when people say you want to give people autonomy, you're saying, well, you're just sort of saying let them do anything you want. No, what they need to do is boundaries. We say a river without banks is a large puddle. It's the banks to keep it going there.

And all the banks are to say, you know, here's the goals of the organization. Here's what we're trying to accomplish. and your work is within those boundaries and you're going to play an important part. And we want to help you be a really important team player in this. I'm curious, Ken. So you've mentioned that you essentially have worked with all of the most impactful companies in all industries from all over the world. You're regularly giving keynotes on Zoom. You were doing it in person.

When you think about all of the amazing leaders that you've met over the course of your career, what have you found to be some of the common attributes, common behaviors of the leaders who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time? Well, I think one of the key things is that they don't think it's all about them. The other thing is like one of my favorite leaders working with was Herb Keller, her with Southwest Airlines. tremendous sense of humor, you know. And I think that's humor is important. My father told me when I was growing up, Ken, he was, he retired as an admiral in the Navy. So he was my initial mentor. I never forget. I won the president of the seventh grade in Nerichelle, New York, you know, and I came home and I'm all pumped up in my father says, Ken, now that you're president, this begins your leadership

training, don't ever use your position. Great leaders are great because people respect and trust them, not because they have power. You know, and so with Herb, you know, he just had this great sense of humor. And my father always said to me, Ken, take what you do seriously, but yourself lightly. You know, and I think that's really what gets a humor, because if you start to take yourself seriously, you're going to be really uptight, you know. And, you know, as I said earlier, life is a very special occasion. If you get out of your own way and get involved with great people like yourself and just have some fun. I mean, I love that part of it, but it seems like

at times it can get lost. But I found both humor to be a commonality with transformational friendships, like a transformational friendship by definition changes you. They transform you for the better. Humor is a big element of that. And when I think about the leaders who have impacted me the most, yes, I think they have high expectations. They're willing to push.

They're highly competent, right? They're extremely prepared and hard workers. But we also had a lot of fun. they also we can make fun of one another like that's right that's part of the humor yeah you know what I mean I feel like that's not talked about as much though is this sense of not taking yourself like overly serious like yes the work is important and we're going to work really hard but also I sense that from the second you and I have connected on Zoom that you've accomplished some amazing things but you don't take yourself that seriously you're having fun like the whole yeah I mean people say you know

you're 82 years old why don't you retire and that's why that's why I wrote a book called Refire, Don't Retire, Make the rest of your life the best of your life, you know. Mort Chavez was a great guy out here, just died recently. He was ahead of the psych department at UCSD. And because it's so true is that you want to have fun. Another really big key of a servant leader is they listen more than they speak and they ask more than they talk, you know.

And so they listen, they ask. Those are really key stuff, you know. Servant leaders don't command people to obey. They invite people to follow. Big difference because one of things I thought about is compliance can be commanded. Commitment cannot. So if I am your boss, I can force you to comply if you want. want to keep your job. And you will until you're ready to leave the job. But I cannot force you

to commit. And I feel like that's a big part of a mantra I learned from you is this, this create, become the type of leader that people choose to raise their hand to commit to, not the ones that they just have to comply because of your positional power. Yes. And they'll commit to you if they know that you're committed to them. You know, again, I keep emphasizing the two-way street of this whole thing. I mean, you just happen to have the title as manager. But the team, without your team, you're nothing, you know. And, I mean, it was interesting, all the kudos and everything for John Madden, you know, I met.

I mean, he was quite a guy. but he constantly talked about the team and it wasn't about him. And he just constantly said, you know, team. And notice, you know, I think it might even been bad and said it first is it does no eye in team, the word team. And so it's really working together. One other part you write about that I've grown to love as well as that servant leaders, love feedback. And I think this is an also common attribute of leaders who have sustained

excellence over time is that they are regularly putting themselves in positions to receive feedback. And they do it in a way that encourages people to continually give them more and more feedback. And that's how they iterate and get better. But you've said that servant leaders love feedback. You share more about the feedback loop process. Yes. And we say the feedback is the breakfast of champions, you know. And it was a concept that I got from a colleague of mine, Rick Tate, you know, years ago. And I thought it was really a great comment. But what you really want to say to your people is that I'm here to help you,

but I also need you to help me and give me feedback of what I'm doing that's helpful, what I'm doing that's not helpful and all because we really are a team. And it's not just about me giving you feedback. I need feedback, too, because I want to grow in this position. I want to be more helpful to you. And boy, their eyes really light up when they realize that because so often, you know, people will give feedback up the hierarchy and then they kill the messenger, you know. And it's it really is, it's kind of crazy rather than saying,

you know, when people give you a feedback, first thing you say is thank you. And then you sort of say, you know, tell me more, you know, things like that. How you receive the feedback sends the message to the person who delivers it, can he or she take it? And if I get, if you give me feedback, can, and I immediately get really defensive and start explaining it away. What am I telling you? I am basically telling you never, don't give me any more feedback because I can't, I can't take it. You have to be prepared to accept it, even if it stings a little bit or it hurts in the short term, it'll make you better in the long term. Yeah.

Like this year, my wife Margie and I will be celebrating our 60th anniversary. And people say, what's to take to great marriage? It's a team, you know, and that we give each other feedback, you know. Margie says she was only trying to change me the first 11 years. And then she finally decided she was going to love the whole package. you know. And, but it's, it really is fun. What happens so often in marriages, you know, again, we see go home, you know, and come in the door and start, you know, telling people what they're doing wrong and all rather than coming home and saying,

hey, you know, what, what is it, you know? We're really excited now. Our son Scott is the president of our company now. And he took over right in the beginning of 2000, you know, and all for this cold COVID thing. It's done an amazing job. And our daughter, Debbie, is the head of marketing. And Margie's brother, Tom, who was born when she was a freshman at Cornell. He's our CEO. And Scott's wife, Madeline, head up our coaching business for a long time. So it's a family-run business. And we're always laughing with each other, but also giving each other feedback. Like we were supposed to go on this cruise, you know, after, and Scott, our son called up. And he said, I've been appointed by the family to be the spokesperson.

We don't want you to go on that cruise. We think that's nuts, you know. And rather than saying, you know, who do you all think you are? Tell me more, you know. I'm curious from a dad's perspective and a husband, when you raise children and you start becoming financially secure as you did through your hard work, but you want to build like toughness and your kids. to have grits, but all of a sudden you have enough money where you can kind of buy anything

that they would ever need. And it sounds like you guys have done a great job of somehow having them exhibit those qualities that you want in a person. How did you, Margie, how do you and Margie figure out how to do that? Well, we did several things. When they came with the company, they started at a low level and got that salary, you know. And we also told them that we weren't going to give them a bunch of money. What we were going to do is create opportunities for them and our family. So we did help them both get a house, you know, so they had some stability there. But that was it.

And we, Margie developed a term that what we want to do is create magical memories with our family. So for her 80th birthday, last November, we took 18 people to Hawaii to celebrate her birthday for a week and pay for the whole thing. And people said, God, that's unbelievable. We said, well, that's what we want to do. Why do we want to wait until we're dead and give money? We're going to create opportunities for us as a family now. And so it was really, it was a fun opportunity to do that.

And so. I love that creating magical. memories. How was that weak in Hawaii? Unbelievable. You know, we had a house that was big enough for all 18 of us to stay and had a wonderful backyard with a pool. We were two blocks from the beach and all. And it was just, it was just a fun thing. And we had, we danced at night, you know, and all that kind of thing, you know, it was just, it was, it was great. We took our, you know, our family and Margie's brother's family and, and a couple that had, been working with us closely, you know, my assistants and his wife. And, you know, so there was

18 of us. And we had our grandkids there, you know, and, and, I mean, it was, it was just a hoot, you know. How does it feel, how does it feel? I mean, you're the reason that happened. And in both you are, I assume, but how does that feel? When you look around, you pause for a second and all these people are here in this beautiful house in Hawaii with the pool and the food and the dancing. I mean, how does it feel? Well, it feels great. You know, we feel we've really been blessed, you know. Margie and I don't take it for granted, you know.

And that's why we've really decided we want to share, you know. I mean, we just, our company has gone through some tough times and all, and all on our son Scott just get, we basically gave 25% of what we made this year back to the, to the people in the company. You know, so people are getting the best raises that they've ever had and all that kind of thing. We constantly want to share. It's not just about filling our barrels, but what can we do to make our people feel that they're part of the team and all that kind of thing. So it's just been a philosophy.

And Marge and I were both blessed with great parents and, you know, made us feel good about ourselves. And because I think if you feel good about yourself, then you're willing to help other people feel good about themselves. All my studies is that the people who are, want to have control needs, they're scared little kids inside. I mean, the guy that wrote, I'm okay, you're okay, year ago, years ago said the worst life position is I'm okay, you're not. And he said, all those people that act like that are covering up not okay feelings about them. themselves and they don't want to admit that they don't know so they have control needs where it's so amazing when you tell your people you know we have this problem here kind of wish we knew what to do we have some thoughts what are your thoughts we need your help and rather than saying how come

this idiot's the manager they say wow we're going to have some fun on together I uh I looked at a picture of inside of your office. And I saw this online. I noticed that you have your mission and your values listed. And the values listed were trustworthiness, focus and clarity, getting to D4, dialogue, ownership, and kenship. I'm curious of your values process. And maybe if you could expand in a couple of them, I'm first curious about D4. What does it mean to get to D4? Well, D4 is the highest level of development in our situational approach to leadership. You know, that means the person is both competent and committed. And so what we want to do is as an organization, as well as individuals, get to D4. How do we help people really become peak performers? And how do we

keep ourselves as an organization going, you know? And I mean, when I look at this year, this is going to be probably our finest year we've had. Unbelievable. And because what happened is that in 2000, we would maybe do 15 or 20 online programs a month. We're now doing over 800 a month. Wow. My son brought in really good high-tech people

and turned all of our curriculum into online stuff that we could really be because people want the stuff, but they, you know, don't want to gather together. And a lot of companies kept their whole thing. And now we can service companies where we can do it in Zoom meetings and Zoom training and online stuff. And which has really been. And so it was really, and Scott really made that happen. And he, it's interesting, he sends out an email.

to everybody in the company once a week because when he took over his president, he told them what his values were. And his number one value was forthrightness. He said, I want to constantly tell you what I know, what I don't know, and what I wish I knew. And he writes an email to everybody every month around forthrightness, and here's what I know, what I don't know,

and people just see the openness of that and just love that kind of thing. And so, you know, Margie's in my roles are really kind of head cheerleaders. And the three of them are really running the thing with all their good team that they put together. I love it. One of the other values, this will be the last one I cover, is called Kenship, K-E-N-S-H-I-P, Ken-S-H-I-P. What does the value of Ken-S-H-S-H-P mean? Well, it's about having fun while we work.

It's about, you know, getting and giving feedback. It's about all the things that we've talked about today. And we want to walk our talk rather than just, you know, talk it and not walk it. In fact, it's really interesting. The reason we initially started our company, Margie said a lot of people who are, and we were already now speaking and doing some writing, they have publicists and then they have people who promote them and all that. But they don't have organizations.

And she said, I think we ought to create an organization to see if we can practice what we preach and have a laboratory where we can test what we're doing. And that's really been important. And I think that's all part of kenship. I love it. I wasn't involved. They created a whole committee to come up with the values and ran it through everybody in the company. It took us a whole year of back and forth. for people in the company and all to that.

So they came to me and they said, do you mind if we call this kenship, you know, if you want? Sure. One more. I'm curious, Ken, for someone who's a bit earlier in their career, maybe they recently graduated college or within a few years, and they really want to be an impactful leader.

They want to make a difference. They want to help people. They want to leave their mark. What are some general pieces of life slash career advice should give to that person. Well, I think the biggest thing is to be a lifetime learner and have a learning attitude, you know, and it's really interesting. You know, here you're a young person.

You'll go into an organization and you think you're supposed to stay there. Well, look at who are considered really good leaders in that company and go to them and say, you know, I've been watching you and listening to people's feedback about your leadership. would you be willing to go to lunch with me? I'd just love to talk to you and just pick your brain about what is taken to learn what you've done and be somebody who asks people to teach them. And I tell you, people love young people to come to them and say, you know, could I learn from you, you know, and all not act like they're smart Alex and all.

So I think that's the biggest thing is just be open to learning and go to people and all. And that's really what I did with Paul Hersey initially because he had been in the field for 10 years before I was. And I asked him if I could take his course. You know, he said, you've got to take it for credit. I did. I love it, man. Ken, I love it because that's a whole mantra of like being, a learning leader is my favorite leaders are the ones who are constantly working on themselves,

constantly curious and out there seeking knowledge and trying to find a better way and wanting to interact with people and learn from their life experiences because we're all just the sum of our life experiences. And there's so many different ones out there, how cool is it just to learn the stories of others and how they've been able to do what they do? I'm fascinated by that. That's why I do this podcast, man. So I'm just so grateful for you and all that you've done as well as invest an hour with me. I highly encourage people, one-minute manager for sure, if you haven't already, get that. But then this most recent one,

simple truce of leadership, 52 ways to be a servant leader and build trust. This is Ken's latest book. He wrote it with Randy Conley. Highly recommend people pick it up, and it's written in a manner that I think is you take the complex and make it simple as well as

make it implementable, as I mentioned before. I think that's what makes it useful and those are really important books. I'm just super grateful. Thank you so much for being here, man. Well, I appreciate it and good luck to you. I'd love to see young people like you that are excited about our field and they're coming along. So then I know when I'm gone someday, you know, maybe when I'm 100, that you'll be, you'll be one of the guys out front. I'm telling you, man, you have the blueprint for what I love to do.

You've mapped it out before it was ever done before. And so that's why I really admire not only your books and what you've done and the manner in which the way that you are, but what you've built because it's really, really hard. And you've done it with a big smile on your face while helping millions of people all over the world. It's inspiring, man. It's inspiring to see that you've done it. And that, that to me is like this is one of the guys to follow. Yeah. Well, let's talk about how you can be one of our consulting partners where, you know, you don't have to, you know, give up what you're.

doing in your own, but we have people that have their own organizations that also do stuff for us. Love it. I love it, man. Well, thank you again for being here and for investing your time with me. I'd love to continue this dialogue and our dialogue as we both progress with. Well, take care of yourself. God bless. Thank you. This is another example of why I'm so grateful to have this podcast, to have the opportunity to meet another one of my literary heroes. Ken Blanchard is that for me, the one-minute manager. has been in my life, basically all of my life. And it's so cool when you meet one of your heroes

and they somehow exceed your expectations. I love it. I hope you enjoyed this one as much as I did. A few takeaways from my notes. The one-minute manager. One-minute goals, one-minute praisings, one-minute redirects. All struggles go back to one simple thing, and typically it's communication

and ensuring that the people you're leading have vividly clear messaging when it comes to their goals. How can their behaviors align with the core mission of the company? Make sure they have vividly clear messaging in regards to that. One minute praising, catch people doing the right things and tell them immediately and be very specific in your praise. And then when it comes to the one minute redirects, address these immediately, be vividly clear and be very specific.

The word of the day when it comes. comes to praise and redirects is specificity. And then teach people the power of love instead of the love of power. These simple one-liners are memorable and easy to implement. And I love this one of teaching people the power of love instead of love of power. I shouldn't say easy to implement, but easy to remember. And that's important. And then create magical moments.

For his wife Margie's 80th birthday party, what did they do? They rented a big house in Hawaii and brought 18 of their closest friends and family members. They wanted to be surrounded by love. Create magical moments. How are you intentionally creating magical moments for yourself and your loved ones and your family and friends? This is a fantastic example. I just want to say once again, thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two. Hey, you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader Show with legend.

Ken Blanchard, it'll help you become a more effective leader. And because you continue to do that and you continue to write reviews on Apple Podcast and rate the show, hopefully five stars, you are continually giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Talk to you soon. Can't wait.